Shannan Collier, PC. and Kelly Nagel from Nagel’s Bagels

Speaker1: [00:00:08] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Woodstock, Georgia. Welcome to women in business where we celebrate influential women making a difference in our community. Now here’s your host.

Speaker2: [00:00:29] Hi, I’m Laurie Kennedy with Business RadioX, and I’m here in the studio with our producer Stone, as well as Kelly Nagel and Shannon Collier Salvi. Did I say that properly? You did. All right, I’m going to start with you, Shannon. How are you doing today? I’m doing well. Thank you and you. I’m doing fantastic. I wanted to ask you what originally? Now tell us what you do and then tell me how you originally chose to get into this line of work.

Speaker3: [00:00:58] So I am an attorney. My practice is primarily limited to business, estate and tax planning. How I got into this line is since I was three years old, I have wanted to be a lawyer, so I made it happen.

Speaker2: [00:01:13] That’s awesome. And so I’m guessing that times at your house when you were growing up were probably a lot of fun. Did you tell your parents, like, you know, how they were supposed to do things properly so that they would stay out of trouble? Or did you just create the trouble and then make them keep you out of it? I don’t know.

Speaker3: [00:01:33] I was the typical goody good girl, so there was never trouble on my side. I was definitely the one who was the straight and narrow. Maybe more out of fear than anything else. But my father was the one who taught me. Really, everything in law, he’s not was not a lawyer. However, he played well on TV as I tend the joke. His best friend was a lawyer and he always told me, Mean what you say? Say what you mean? He used real words with everything. So at probably five, I knew what oxymoronic meant. At eight, I knew what subterfuge was because my father would throw those words at me when he was fussing at me and I’d stop to wait. What does that mean? Because he’d be fussing at me and I didn’t know what that meant, he says. Go find out. I’d run upstairs, open the dictionary, see what it meant, run downstairs. I was not engaging in subterfuge. I was telling the truth from the beginning. So, so I would say that really, the household was was led by my father and he guided me to be able to accomplish what I wanted to accomplish.

Speaker2: [00:02:36] Ok, did you grow up in Georgia?

Speaker3: [00:02:38] I did not. I was born in Georgia. I am old Savannah. But when I was very young, my parents moved to Jacksonville, Florida, and that is where I spent my formative years.

Speaker2: [00:02:48] Ok, all right. All right. Well, Kelly, tell us about your business and how long you’ve been in business and how you got there.

Speaker4: [00:02:56] I guess it’s a funny story. Kelly Nagle with Nagel’s bagels and obviously our last name. It was clearly God intended us to make bagels. But I’m from the south and my husband is from Southern California. So, you know, how do we make bagels? Well, he would do a lot of traveling with his job as a consultant in New York, New Jersey, Boston, and he’d come home because as a, you know, a good boy, he brought his southern girl back to the south. And we come home here to Georgia and there’s no bagels here. And I kidded him and said, Well, then figure out how to make them Nago bagel. And it was in June of 2019. We were sitting on the couch, and I only remember because it was the week of Chrissy, the youngest daughter’s birthday. And he goes, I’m going to figure out how to make a bagel. And he started researching and watching YouTube videos, and he did some batches and they were awful. They could have been a boat anchor. They could not have been a bagel. And that was the really the best thing that could have happened because he was like, Oh, this isn’t going to beat me. And so he just started, you know, making batches, giving them to every Yankee Jewish person we knew and to really, you know, say, OK, this is this a bagel? It’s this right? And he tweaked some things, of course. And then we have the bagel that we have. Well, this was supposed to be his hobby, and it turned into my full time job because of COVID. I got laid off. I was doing marketing and business development and for a company and obviously couldn’t do that anymore with the pandemic, everybody being home. So I got laid off and one of our friends said, You know what, if anybody can make this work, you can so see if you can make it work. And we’ve been drinking from a fire hose ever since and it’s just been exploding so well.

Speaker2: [00:04:47] I find that interesting because I jumped into helping my husband with Alpha and Omega Automotive during COVID as well, and it was really challenging to try to figure out what things like he’d been in business 20 years. What things could I help do that he wasn’t already doing? Or how could I not step on his toes and bring something that helped alongside him? Did did you find that you were walking through any of that as well?

Speaker4: [00:05:13] Oh, absolutely. I tell people all the time that our marriage counseling has worked so much more within our business than it ever helped in our marriage. We have a great marriage, but that learning what lanes we’re supposed to be in and learning to be able to say, Oh no, no, that’s my lane and this is your lane. So he’s the baker. He does all the back of the house stuff and he is very, very organized. He writes everything in an SOP and I am the front of the house person. I love doing these kind of things, speaking to people, being in the community, marketing, business, development, that stuff. So that’s that’s what I do. I go out and get the accounts and, you know, I’m in the community and he bakes.

Speaker2: [00:05:58] Yeah. Shannon, with you. I know you’ve been growing your business and adding people like what it would is. How has that transformed what you were doing like before COVID and now?

Speaker3: [00:06:09] Honestly, COVID has not affected me. I’ve been very fortunate where I’m not seasonal and when the economy is good, my business is good. When the economy is bad, my business is good because there’s always people starting businesses, losing jobs, starting their own businesses are growing. People always need a state planning tax planning. So I’m very fortunate in that aspect. It’s been somewhat coincidental, however, that around the COVID time my business has exploded. You’re right, I have been attempting to expand. It’s very difficult, though, in this day and age to find competent professionals who upon whom I can rely. So that has been the hardest growing pain for me. I’ve been fortunate enough. I found a fabulous associate attorney who I have now. I have a great paralegal. I have a fabulous administrative legal assistant who is my right hand upon whom I rely entirely. But I would love a couple more people to maybe take the pressure off and let me spend more time, as Kelly says, doing more things like this. Being in the community. Meeting with people who might be able who might need my help, whom I might be able to provide assistance because that is my goal.

Speaker2: [00:07:15] So I want to hear from both of you. But since we’re speaking with you, Shannon, right this minute, go ahead and tell me like, what are the things that you are involved in in the community and that you like to do in ways that you like to to serve others in that way?

Speaker3: [00:07:30] Closest to my heart is truly the veterans and first responders. My husband has a very, very soft spot for the same, so he has his own business as well. And through his business, we have focused on hiring former veterans and homelessness homeless individuals to get them real jobs. Unfortunately, my husband can only employ so many people, so what that led to is doing is forming our own 501c3 that we use to hopefully one raise funds to contribute back to being able to get veterans displaced, homeless and the like back into the workforce and then also to provide another opportunity for them to have a job. If we can give them training in something as basic as stalking and retail, as opposed to having to be trained to go into an office environment or have a skill that they are just not in a position to learn, this, we believe, is something at a level that is not being addressed sufficiently. And we’re hoping that we can possibly get more of these people in the workforce to work at local retail establishments. Unfortunately, these people don’t have addresses, don’t have showers, don’t have phones. So we work closely with most ministries and other types of veteran support organizations. They identify people. We are looking to give them that six months through our five one three and or through Brian’s, my husband’s company having them work, getting them a resume, getting a even if it’s a temporary like a housing or a long term stay facility, it gives them an address, lets them take a shower, let’s give clean clothes, lets them afford a phone. And then that way, when they have the opportunity to apply for a job, they can give an address, they can give a phone number, they can show up and clean clothes, they can show up showered and they have a letter of rec and a resume from me. So they have a lawyer and a Wednesday and maybe another business who are all giving them vouchers for saying This person wants to work. This person is reliable. We recommend you hire this person.

Speaker2: [00:09:39] Well, it gives me chills. I love that. I love that. Kelly, what about you? How are you? What are things that you’re passionate about in the community?

Speaker4: [00:09:47] I love being with people, as we said, and I one of my biggest things. One of the most important things to me is that people feel sane no matter where they are or what station they are in life, you know, whether they’re homeless or whether they are the CEO. So often we don’t see people as people. So that is truly my passion and the fact that we do make bagels. I also feel like we can’t make something as basic as bread and live in a community where any one person has food insecurities. And so we truly our goal is to ensure that no one is without food. There’s actually a really amazing tradition in bakeries in Eastern Europe, where they there they go and they buy bread every day. So you walk into the bakery and you buy your bread and you say, I want, I want a loaf of bread, and then I want one for the hook. And that they would pay for two loaves of bread and one goes on the hook and they take one home. And then if somebody comes into the bakery and can’t afford bread, they asked, Is there any bread on the hook? And the baker gives them whatever loaf of bread is on the hook. And so rich and I have have decided that that’s we haven’t gotten to the point to be able to form a 501c3 yet. But we use that tradition of on the hook, you know, being able to provide for others in the community. Law enforcement is really close to my heart. My father is a retired police chief here in Georgia, and so no one in uniform ever pays for anything. And any time I have leftovers, I’ll go to fire station or the police station and give them extra bagels, or just bake some for them just to to give back. Because gosh, especially in these last few years, they are so under appreciated and so underpaid. And so if I can just in a little way, let them see be seen and loved. And it’s true for anybody, but especially that those groups people.

Speaker2: [00:11:56] Yeah, I love that I love. And also the be seen part like that’s something that’s close to my heart as well. I spent a lot of my childhood feeling unseen, and so I want to make others feel same because it kind of stinks to not feel seen, you know?

Speaker4: [00:12:13] Absolutely.

Speaker2: [00:12:14] Do you think that off the hook, like the the saying off the hook came from something like that?

Speaker4: [00:12:20] You know, I’ve heard mixed reviews because I am one of those weird people that likes to go down the rabbit hole and figuring that out. I just, yeah, so I have I’ve. Heard that it’s that or there’s a few other theories, but yeah, that whole, you know, hey, are you on the hook for something or you know that that it is possibly related to that tradition?

Speaker2: [00:12:40] Yeah, because letting somebody off the hook means they don’t have responsibility for whatever it just was. And basically, if you’re getting free bread, then you’re getting something without the responsibility of paying for it, I guess. I don’t know. I think that’s pretty interesting.

Speaker4: [00:12:55] I think we can deem it so right here.

Speaker2: [00:12:57] Ok, let’s do it.

Speaker4: [00:12:58] Let’s see how done we’re so powerful.

Speaker2: [00:13:02] So, Kelly, what motivates or inspires you?

Speaker4: [00:13:07] Well, that’s such a good question. Ultimately, ultimately, that’s Jesus, ultimately, that’s my relationship with Christ is what motivates him as far as me, I believe that he put me on this Earth for specific reasons. In order to give a purpose and show love, I tell people that my motto is Love God, love people in that order, and nothing else really matters beyond that. But what gets me out of bed in what we do now is the fact that I do get to be out in the community, I get to meet people and I get to help meet people’s needs. Sometimes that involves Nagel’s bagels, sometimes it doesn’t. And I’m OK with that. I don’t care if I, you know, know somebody. Actually, I did it. What? A couple of weeks ago, a friend of mine was in desperate need of a lawyer. He didn’t even know it, and I was like, I’m hooking you up tonight with my friend, hooked him up with Shannon, and he literally texted me before while I was walking in here and said, You saved my life. And it’s just to be able to do that because I know different people in the community that makes me know that I’m doing what God put me on the Earth to do.

Speaker2: [00:14:12] Yeah, that’s awesome. Shannon, what about you? What motivates and inspires you?

Speaker3: [00:14:17] When you ask that the first thing that popped in my mind, of course, was family. But when I thought about, in reality further how it goes, it really is people. It’s so difficult to answer this the way I can’t verbalize what’s in my head, it’s so emotional to me. I always want to do the best for my family. But as I’m out there, what I find myself doing is interacting with people and. Finding that what I can give gives me so much more. So similarly, a lot of the guys who work for my husband, like I said, they were homeless. They’ve been off the streets for 18 to 24 months now. And everyone who comes to my house or everyone whom I see on a job site calls me Mama. I get hugs from every single one of them. They ask Brian to invite me to lunch if they know they’re near where I’m working that day. It’s it’s events like that at situations like that that motivate me to continue to go out every day and do what I do.

Speaker2: [00:15:27] That’s awesome. So. That really kind of goes into my next questions, which were, how does who you are as a person reflect in what you do and what makes your life significant. So I feel like we kind of addressed all of those at once, don’t you all? Pretty much. Yeah. So and also the next one was how do you use your influence in the community? And you guys have already talked about that as well. You are so far ahead of me.

Speaker4: [00:15:56] All right.

Speaker2: [00:15:57] So tell me about how do you handle mistakes in your business, Shannon? Like what? How do you? I’ve already heard you say something like, let me see if I can remember what this was like. There are no mistakes. There’s just another way around something that was it was kind of something like that. Tell me,

Speaker3: [00:16:15] Ok, first off, there’s no mistake. Only a learning opportunity, OK? However, as a lawyer, we can totally make mistakes. And when we do, the first thing would be me cursing for a stream. And then after I calmed down, it is addressing it. It’s owning up to it. It’s fixing it immediately. As a lawyer, if we file something wrong, we have to fix it. If we put something out there wrong, we have to retract it. If we, you know, if we are, we’re at a different level where it’s such a high fiduciary level of representation and honesty to the courts and to each other as lawyers that I cannot let something false stay out there if it’s a mistake. Of course, everyone understands that, and I have before reached out to an attorney to say, I’m sorry you misunderstood me, or I’m sorry I misunderstood you, or I’m sorry, I don’t believe I clearly stated what it was. Let me clarify. Let me fix. Let me retract if we flat out mess up, file something wrong. It is a matter of going back and fixing it immediately and owning up to those mistakes and then learning from them. This week, my associate made a huge mistake by copying opposing counsel in something he shouldn’t have. Oh, and there was a quick apology. And reaching out for that and warning that we don’t do things like that in the office, but that we all make mistakes, so let’s learn from it.

Speaker2: [00:17:38] Yeah, I think when we were talking at one point in time, it had to do with a, I don’t know, something that like we had closed on this house and it was about how we were filing these. Oh, how we filed it this way or that way. And you were like, We just need to figure out, like if he did it this way, we’ll figure out how to make it work the other way. So what are some things that you have found for your business people that you’ve been able to redirect the way that they’re? Doing something.

Speaker3: [00:18:11] Ok, so if a client comes to me and they’ve done something they shouldn’t have and I don’t mean criminally, I mean, it would have been more advantageous to do something a different way. It might be more tax benefit.

Speaker2: [00:18:21] Thank you for specifying that.

Speaker4: [00:18:23] I’m just saying I don’t do criminal. She’s not going to be our alibi. Is that what you’re saying?

Speaker3: [00:18:27] No, I did not say that. No. Two really different things here. It’s not just that I won’t be defending you in it, but I can totally be your book the. The possible means or ways in which that can happen is too expansive to say, how have I done that? But what I’ll do is I’ll say, OK, you did ABC. And really, that wasn’t the best way to do it. You really should have done this. We can’t go back and really do this. But let me find an alternate way to get us to a same or a similar end without taking that ABC or I guess ABC’s we should have done. Def-, we can’t do DPF now, but let’s go ahead and do guy because that will get us. So the end result that is more advantageous in the ABC. So I will definitely look now. Sometimes we can’t. Of course, sometimes things are done. An example I had someone call me yesterday and say, OK, it’s year end. I’m going to have horrific tax consequences. What can I do? So we can’t go back and undo anything. Unfortunately, there’s certain things we can fix before the end of the year. Luckily, if you call me on January 1st, I can’t fix the year prior. That’s too late. But so I gave him some ideas of what he can do now to go back. This calendar year can’t do last calendar year, but so I’ll do what I can to the extent legally and ethically proper in the client’s given situation.

Speaker2: [00:19:53] Yes, that just made me reminded me. I’ve got to call my financial advisor about my I.R.A..

Speaker3: [00:20:01] Whatever triggers up, either. Think of it. Remember? Look, now everybody, don’t wait until December 1st. Look at everything

Speaker2: [00:20:07] Now. Yes, absolutely. What about you, Kelly? How do you deal with mistakes that are made? And I and let me just before you answer this, I’m just going to say that from what Shannon says, at least an automotive. Yeah. I mean, you’re not going to do everything perfect all the time, but owning up to it and fixing it is like, I don’t think anybody expects you to be perfect. I mean, they want that. They really hoped for it.

Speaker3: [00:20:31] But they could be mad when you’re not.

Speaker4: [00:20:34] Yeah. But the truth is, is that no one’s perfect, right? We all know that and we all know that about everyone. But and so what our philosophy, what my philosophy has always been is authentically and honestly on what you did and extravagantly apologize. And what I mean by that is, for example, we had someone it was very, very early on. We were testing out different packaging for different bagels and we had someone purchase some bagels from a place and within 24 hours they had molded. Obviously, it was poor packaging on our part. He called us and said, Hey, well, first of all, thank you that he called, you know, they don’t always do, right. Most of the time they’re like, Oh, well, I’m never going to buy them again. But he called us. Well, he literally bought two bagels from this place for three weeks in a row. I does. I delivered a dozen bagels to his house every week for three weeks in a row, completely free. And you know, that cost me some money. But that was two years ago. He is still a client. Are you still a customer? I don’t even like to call them anything but friends. You know, he’s still one of our fans, and he still comes out of his way to find our bagels. And he almost always is telling other people about, Hey, this is the company you want to go with. This is who you want to talk to. This is who. And it’s because we extravagantly apologized and that it it doesn’t matter how much it costs, it costs the bad will that you create by not doing that cost so much more in the long run.

Speaker2: [00:22:11] And yeah, for sure, absolutely.

Speaker4: [00:22:13] But it does have to be honest and authentic to. I do believe that being honest and authentic, even back to when I was a waitress and I messed up someone’s food, I was like, You know what? I truly, totally screwed up. I know that you said this and I put in the wrong thing. Let me fix it. And I think when people see that and feel that honesty it, it goes a long way because everybody deep downs knows that they’re not perfect either.

Speaker2: [00:22:38] Right, right? Yes, for sure. So what are some misconceptions about your industry,

Speaker3: [00:22:44] Kelly,

Speaker4: [00:22:48] That what you see on the surface really is all there is to it, and I bet everyone could say that in this room, right? That what they just see, whether it’s that they see one of our bagels at a coffee shop or they see us at a farmer’s market or they see what we bring into their office when we’ve catered something that that’s all it took. They don’t see the 48 hour ahead of time, all of the work that it took, and they also don’t see the amount of money that bagel equipment cost. And that’s why if you go to a bakery, a lot of times a regular bakery won’t make bagels because bagel equipment’s very specific and ridiculously expensive. And so they they don’t see that kind of planning. I think they also don’t see the the care that my husband. And took in choosing everything that we do, everything down to this specific flower, to this specific oil, to the specific sugar to, I mean all of those things to make sure that it comes out the way that it should come out and that he truly we both truly that he is amazing how much he cares about that end product.

Speaker2: [00:24:04] So I am curious now that you talk about this equipment, what is different about Baikal equipment versus other baking equipment? And on my assumption is it has something to do with the thickness of the dough.

Speaker4: [00:24:15] Maybe well, most bread is you have a mixer and you mix up the ingredients and then you’ll let it proof and then you put it in an oven. Well, bagels, if they’re done correctly, are boiled and baked. So you, you do. Really? Yes, I had no idea. So we do have the same. We do use now. We are not New Yorkers, we are. So we do not say we have New York style bagels, although we do produce in the traditional New York style. However, we’ve tweaked those six ingredients just a little bit, not a ton, but to to to elevate it. A little, I guess, is the way to put it. And so we do mix those ingredients and we have a very specific proofing process that causes them to always be soft, which isn’t always true with bagels. And then you boil in water and rich can geek out with you on water and the chemistry and what all has to happen there. But it’s water and and you boil them and then you decorate them. You put, you know, whatever the seasoning is or whatever, and then you bake them and and the oven that you bake them in is you can either do like a pizza type oven. They have to be very, very hot or a very hot convection oven and steam has to be present as well in the baking process, too. So it’s not like you can just do it in any old regular oven as well. It’s better to have so like a kettle that is the boiling thing. Could, you know, is really specific to bagels or that type of bread? Most people aren’t using a kettle for anything but that

Speaker3: [00:26:01] Bagels one

Speaker2: [00:26:01] On one. I know it’s well, it’s really interesting. I know, like my husband’s from New Orleans. So French bread in New Orleans is different than French bread here. And a lot of it has to do with the altitude and the weather and that sort of thing. So when you said you tweaked some of the recipes, I was the first thought that came to my mind was maybe that’s specific to our climate or, you know, how much moisture we have in the air, humidity and that sort of thing?

Speaker4: [00:26:28] Oh, absolutely. And we have to treat we have to tweak things as seasons change. So the weather just got colder. And so our proofing time went from 20 minutes to. It could be as much as three hours simply because you can only control the environment in your bakery. So much so, yeah, right.

Speaker3: [00:26:50] And of course, there’s that high quality of ingredients that you offer without all of the extra garbage that we see. And maybe some commercial brands

Speaker4: [00:26:58] Know there isn’t a single preservative or artificial ingredient in ours

Speaker2: [00:27:03] At awesome. Where is your store located?

Speaker4: [00:27:06] We actually don’t have a storefront. We have a commercial kitchen in Cartersville and we sell wholesale as well as doing home delivery and we do at Farmer’s Market. So there are about 15 coffee shops and cafes that use that sell our bagels. And what I love about that is kind of goes back to my purpose, right? Is I love that I can also help other small businesses elevate their business. I can use that marketing and business development background that I have to go into a coffee shop or a brand new cafe and say, Hey, let me help you. Let me help you do some marketing. And you know, let’s wheel. Both of our ships will rise by doing that as well. So that’s been fun to do. And and then we do farmer’s markets, home delivery, business delivery. But we are actively looking for a bigger space. We’ve kind of outgrown our kitchen, our commercial kitchen. And so we wouldn’t mind a storefront to go with our new place if we can find one.

Speaker2: [00:28:01] Anyone listening? Yes, please just get in touch. Well, so Shannon, what are some misconceptions about your industry? I know as as a lawyer, there are lots of them, but why don’t you share some, some situations that you’ve personally seen?

Speaker3: [00:28:16] In my sight, at least because I am not the personal injury attorney, so I’m not the ambulance chaser. But a lot of people do believe and to some extent they might be right that the services are very expensive and relatively yes, legal fees are expensive. What people don’t realize, though, is if you don’t set the proper groundwork, it’s much more expensive on the other side. And that sounds like the sales pitch. But as we stated earlier, mistakes the clients make think about now how much they’re paying me to go back and find that alternative. Like I said, the deaf or the guy or whatever, that costs a lot more now that I’m working at a different level and trying to work around the mistake as opposed to if I put it in place in the first place, right? So that’s probably the biggest. Another is people think, Well, if I if I own almost nothing or if everything is jointly with right of survivorship, I don’t need a will. You always need a will. I find so often there is that one asset someone didn’t think about that has now made it so that we have to file intestate probate, which is more expensive just because there’s a couple extra steps.

Speaker3: [00:29:20] It’s a little more time consuming, which means more legal fees. So misconception that you don’t need a will. Also, don’t forget something to think about. I’m going to bump me off. Let’s say that that I die and before my estate is administered. But after I died, my mom dies. Well, if if things are passing, either before I die or after I die for my mother, to me, it can affect what assets are now in my state that weren’t previously so. Mom dies. I die a month after mom. I don’t have a will, because everything I own was jointly with right of survivorship with my husband. But guess what? The assets had just passed to me from my mom are not jointly with right of survivorship. And now there has to be an intestate filing to get my assets from mom to flow them through to my heirs who are actually my husband and my son.

Speaker2: [00:30:13] Ok, so how often should you update your will?

Speaker3: [00:30:17] That is really a relative question. I tell people the big things to look for are birth, death, marriage, divorce, inheritance or lottery. Things that primarily change your financial or social position in life because it’s been 20 years is not a reason to revise your will. It’s a great reason to review it. I had someone this morning say, Look, we have no kids. We have had no changes. Or will, as 20 years old, do we need to revise it? Let me just look at it. Let’s see. I’m willing to bet you you don’t as long as it’s a Georgia will and you executed it properly. If the people are still the people or if someone has died, but you’ve named the successors to that person, there’s no reason you’re going to need a new will.

Speaker2: [00:31:03] Yeah, I think many of the times that we’ve changed ours, it’s had to do with when our children were at different ages, you know, like when they needed somebody to keep them. If something happened to both of us, then that was a different. Document or whatever. Then now that they. Well, we think they’re grown up.

Speaker3: [00:31:21] It depends, really. Even that is not necessarily if you have one child, which is a birth. So that was a reason for new will. Yes. And you name a guardian and you have a second child if it’s drafted properly, that guardian should apply to both children or under the third and to the fourth. Now, if that person dies again, there should have been a successor named if it was drafted properly. I’m hoping it’s a good will. There should have been a successor named now if there wasn’t or if you decided to change the successor. That’s not even a reason for new will. You can do a codicil just saying, Hey, everything else in here is still good, but I do need to change my name as Guardian. That is much quicker and easier than having to do a full will, unless there’s other reasons that you need a new will as well. Now, when the kids become adults, what happens? The guardianship provision just won’t apply because they’re adults. But at that point, you may want to name the children as fiduciaries in your will, and that may be a cause for a further adjustment. Possibly a codicil, possibly a full new will depends on how smart you are.

Speaker4: [00:32:18] No, I will say a misconception that I have heard people have about lawyers that you have actually rectified. For me, Shannon, is that you won’t have a conversation without charging, and that is so not true. It’s so, not true.

Speaker2: [00:32:32] You just invite her to lunch. And by all means

Speaker4: [00:32:34] She’s fine, right? Absolutely. You can’t get

Speaker3: [00:32:37] Me to stop

Speaker4: [00:32:38] Talking at that point.

Speaker2: [00:32:40] Like, I couldn’t write fast enough

Speaker3: [00:32:42] Now I I can’t help helping. It’s it’s sort of in my nature. Of course, when it comes to the actual work part, yes, they’re going to get charged for that. No, I’m not going to say come into my office for free console, but you know what you call me or you have a friend call me or you call me with a friend, or I walk into a meeting with three other people and I hear someone say something and I give him advice because I overheard a conversation. Little things like that happen to come out of my mouth without me even thinking,

Speaker2: [00:33:10] Yeah, I hear you. Well, tell me what is. Tell me a situation. Obviously not people involved, but a situation where you change the course of direction for a company and how and why. Like, what are the details around something like that?

Speaker3: [00:33:26] I don’t know if I’ve ever changed the course of it, but I have facilitated in the direction of a company more than one. I have one client who was undergoing a merger and they had a plan, and for tax purposes, I saw taxes that can be triggered upon the sole owner. When the merger happened that we could avoid or minimize, we could reduce the tax consequences if we structured it slightly differently. So we did that. I facilitated in changes of of. The one company was an Inc and we change it to an LLC because the structure they were heading, it would be more advantageous for the way they wanted to own it moving forward to have it be an LLC as opposed to stay in Inc. So things like that are more where I’m integrated. They call and say, Shannon, we’re thinking about this. Can you help us get there or what do you think? And that’s when I came in. So I don’t really change the direction they know where they want to go. My job was not to change that. My job is to maximize the benefits and efficiency for them in getting to wherever it is, they decide they’re going to go.

Speaker2: [00:34:32] Ok. All right. I love that. And. I lost my train of thought because I was enveloping all that within my being. Let’s change the subject. Mentored, mentoring and mentored, so, Kelly. Are you being mentored and are you mentoring others and what does that look like?

Speaker4: [00:34:57] Oh, absolutely. It is a huge passion of mine. I feel like I’ve said to people before, if you were not growing, you’re dying. And so and the only way to grow, obviously, is you have to have two parts of that you do need to mentor. But you also need to be mentoring someone else, you know, to to learn is. I mean, part of learning is teaching in someone else. And so yes, I have both of those in various aspects of my life. You know, I have a spiritual mentor, a woman that is amazing, that helps me learn and grow in my biblical and spiritual life. I have several actually business mentors, women that help me stay grounded. And one of it which doesn’t even know she’s my mentor because I don’t know her personally. But if y’all have ever heard Sarah Blakely, who owns banks, I mean, just I just read and listen to everything that she does because she’s amazing and so grounded and has just taught me so many ways to think of things and perspectives on that. So I do love. I love that, and I love her and love listening to her. And most mostly, I mentor my children, my 15 and 16 year old daughters when they allow that. You know, they are 15 and 16 year old daughters, so they come back.

Speaker4: [00:36:23] They please from your mouth to God’s ears. No, they are amazing women. They are strong, strong willed women. And as my mother would say, you would never want to raise weak willed women. So they are wonderful and I cannot wait to see how they’ll change the world because I know they will. And they do. They’re starting to allow me to to mentor a little more. But I have some other little. They’re not little girls, they’re teenagers, but they’ll help in the bakery or they help it farmer’s markets and stuff. And we’re able I’m able to mentor and speak life into them. And I mostly, I mean, the biggest thing that I try and teach people is, do what you say you’re going to do when you say you’re going to do it, and that just changes so much. If you can do that and just, you know, own it on what you do and on what you can’t do, that’s OK, too. So yes, I feel like if you’re not teaching, you’re not showing the next generation. Well, then you’re kind of leaving this world in a bad place. And if you’re not learning, then you’re dying. So yeah, we have to be in that place in the middle.

Speaker2: [00:37:37] I definitely am all like on board with that. I feel like and there’s scriptures that say, you know, choose life like you’re either living or you’re dying, like you say. And I feel like if you don’t so into others, then that that attaches back to being seen like being seen as also being remembered by other generations and as you sow into the lives of others than part of your remains, you know?

Speaker4: [00:38:01] Absolutely. I think it was Maya Angelou that said people might people will probably forget what you say, but they’ll never forget how you made them feel and making, you know, really authentically hearing and listening and pouring into people. You make them feel good. You make them feel seen, make them feel loved and known. And in our society that says all about, it’s all about me, it’s all about what I want. If you can model giving to others, I mean, there’s no better thing to model, no better witness to give.

Speaker2: [00:38:35] Yeah, that’s great. What about you, Shannon? And mentoring and being mentored and also tell us who’s in your family?

Speaker3: [00:38:43] Oh gosh, I consider my family really everybody. I’m very southern in that aspect, so we’re very extended. My dad had two brothers. My mom has a sister, so there’s plenty of cousins and children of the cousins. So I consider them all family in my household. It’s my husband and my son. My husband and I have been married three and a half years, and my son is 22 and similar to Kelly. I’m fortunate enough that he’s not a teenage girl, and because it was the it was only two of us for 15 years. He he’s always asked me questions and asked for my advice and come home and told me about his day and to this day, still living with us. He will come home from work and he will come to me and say, This is what’s happened and this what’s going on and this is what’s happened. My last medical school application and what do you think about this? And would you review this for me? And I’m honored that, you know, since he was in sixth grade, he asked me to help him put his plan in order to get where he is today. And he listened to me and he worked with me. He continually followed up and touched down just to his goals with me. So that is probably my proudest Mendy.

Speaker2: [00:39:53] You know, for me, Kelly, did you hear her say medical school?

Speaker4: [00:39:56] I did. I guess we’d need a doctor in the family,

Speaker3: [00:39:59] My son, the doctor.

Speaker2: [00:40:01] I can’t wait to say that.

Speaker4: [00:40:02] You know

Speaker3: [00:40:04] What? More could a Jewish mother ask for?

Speaker4: [00:40:06] That’s so true.

Speaker3: [00:40:08] And then as far as mentor, my first mentor, as I referenced earlier with my father, my father guided me. He raised me as his son, which I don’t want to, you know, pooh pooh the women in business aspect here. But he raised me to to really have no preconceptions, misconceptions, directions regarding what I can do. And there were never limits, and he raised me to be outspoken and strong and never really think that there’s anything I can’t do. I’ve never particularly set a goal because I just in my head. I think I decide to do something and I do it or I don’t, and it is what it is, and it’s not what it’s not. So he’s probably my, my primary and strongest mentor I’ve ever had as far as professionally. I was fortunate enough to have a local attorney, Frank Bird, to be my first true mentor when I graduated law school. Unfortunately, that’s when the hiring freeze went on in the government, so I was going to be hired by the IRS and they could not hire me because of the hiring freeze. So I was a struggling little girl by myself and he met me and he saw my tax background and my business background, and he brought me on.

Speaker3: [00:41:18] And here he is, relying on me for my tax and estate planning, and he was truly my mentor and truly guided me and supported me and will ever forever be my heart as that as far as professional mentees. I have had several attorneys come through my door who found me because they graduated the same law school I did, and they moved to Atlanta and they would talk to me. And of course, I was not hiring at that time. But I always said, You know, if you need to call me, if you if you want to talk, I’m always here. Whenever I teach continuing ed classes, I always tell the lawyers I am there and I have gotten calls and I have gotten questions, and I will help anyone any way I can because I don’t see any reason not to. I’m fortunate enough now. I have an opposing counsel who’s one of my mentees that I had years ago, which was so cool when he called me as a Shannon. And I don’t know if you remember me, but you were kind enough to help me out when I graduated and I’m now representing this client. And you’re opposing counsel. That’s fabulous. I’m so happy for you.

Speaker2: [00:42:20] Yeah.

Speaker3: [00:42:21] So that’s kind of my my history of mentor mentorship.

Speaker2: [00:42:25] That’s awesome. All right. Well, this will be our last question. I’ll start with you, Shannon. Ok? What advice would you give to others who are trying to enter the field that you’re trying to enter?

Speaker3: [00:42:36] Oh. I know you caught me off guard.

Speaker2: [00:42:40] No, I didn’t write that one down because I just thought of it.

Speaker3: [00:42:42] Oh, really, it’s stay within your wheelhouse because in law, it’s so easy to get lured into an area in which you’re not competent because you need the money just flat out. You need to survive, you need to make the bills. And I get that. But what you can do is find somebody and they will either mentor you through it or they will help it, or they will do it for you, or they will do it with you. So be very careful. Don’t stretch yourself too thin and don’t take on the client that your gut tells you you shouldn’t. That’s sort of

Speaker2: [00:43:20] That sounds like a story for later. Lots of stories

Speaker3: [00:43:23] On that one, but yes.

Speaker2: [00:43:26] Wow, OK. What about you, Kelly? What advice would you give to a woman in business trying to get into her, trying to get into a business or into food industry or

Speaker3: [00:43:37] Anything of that nature? Yeah.

Speaker4: [00:43:39] I mean, food is cutthroat, I will tell you. A lot of people make a good something and then say, Oh, well, then I’m going to open this. And I would say, whether it’s food or anything, I kind of have three things. One is be humble, be very, very humble, be used to being uncomfortable and be lean into uncomfortable and well, I guess it’s for things now. Think about it, ask for help, ask questions. And I guess that goes along with being humble. Ask, ask, ask, ask everybody that, you know, don’t ever let anybody think, Oh, well, I have it all together because they all know you don’t. So it’s OK. And the last one is have about three times as much money as you think you need. Oh, heck yes, right? If you’re going to play the lottery, I mean, you save, say, save, save, save, save, save.

Speaker2: [00:44:37] Awesome. All right. Well, thank you, ladies, for being here. And remember, if you if you think you know everything, then you’re sure to learn nothing like, that’s one of my go to saying. So that’s my advice for today and thanks Stone for helping us out and we’re son and off.