Paul Nieminen is the Vice President, Learning Strategy at Prudential Financial and a globally recognized leader in the field of Organizational Development. He has created and implemented models that align and engage people with organizational strategies.
His expertise is in the areas of organizational culture, national culture, change management, organizational design, performance management, and talent management. He has held executive level positions in the largest global organizations, and has led the human component of Organizational Learning, Human Resources, Mergers &Acquisitions, and International Organizational Effectiveness.
Paul is a lifelong learner and holds several advanced degrees and practitioner certificates. He holds a BS in Business with an international concentration. He holds an MS is in Human Resource Development with a concentration in adult learning, counseling, and instructional design. He has a PhD (abd) in Human Resource Development has worked with the Anthropology Film Center in Santa Fe, NM. Paul is currently working on another PhD in Transformational and Social Change
Paul has two children and lives between Atlanta, GA and Matanzas Shores, FL. He travels the world often, reads Jung for fun, and appreciates both the concrete jungle and the magnificence of nature. Paul practices fatherhood, friendship, mindfulness, and gratitude. In addition to his corporate work, he often leads retreats at his lodge that is nestled within the rainforest of Costa Rica.
Connect with Paul on LinkedIn and follow Prudential Financial on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.
Transcript
Intro: [00:00:04] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia, it’s time for Learning Insights. Brought to you by TrainingPros. When you have more projects than people, TrainingPros can provide you with the right L&D consultant to start your project with confidence. Now, here’s your host.
Lee Kantor: [00:00:27] Lee Kantor here. Another episode of Learning Insights Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, TrainingPros. Without them, we could not be sharing these important stories. Today on Learning Insights, we have Paul Nieminen with Prudential Financial. Welcome, Paul.
Paul Nieminen: [00:00:45] Welcome, Lee. Thank you very much for having me today.
Lee Kantor: [00:00:47] Well, I’m excited to talk about the topic we’re going to be talking about, which is learning strategy for 2021 and beyond. But before we get into that, let’s talk a little bit about Prudential Financial. How are you serving folks?
Paul Nieminen: [00:01:00] Well, I’ll tell you, we provide financial solutions for individuals, as well as advisors and employees in institutions throughout the world. We’re here in the US, as well as in some emerging markets around the globe. So, we’re here to bring you some unique and very fulfilling financial solutions.
Lee Kantor: [00:01:19] So, now, as the VP of Learning Strategy, well, like, what’s your role in the organization?
Paul Nieminen: [00:01:25] Well, my role, I’m in the Center of Excellence, and it’s the Employee and Development Capability Center of Excellence. And really, my role has three parts to it. One is to bring an overarching enterprise-wide learning strategy to Pru globally. Another one is really to help the organization identify the critical capabilities and develop those critical capabilities that will really give us a differentiated competitive advantage. And thirdly, I do some learning advisory for all of the different learning groups in the organization. So, it’s quite exciting. Really, I enjoy it, and it’s quite a great role for me.
Lee Kantor: [00:02:07] So, now, how does that kind of a mission get adjusted when the pandemic happens?
Paul Nieminen: [00:02:15] Lee, I really keep a close eye on the societal demands out there. And right now, there’s a big need for connection with employees. And so, I bring a very strong relational learning to the organization. There’s a lot of demands around social equity and racial equality. And we really address that as a learning organization. And really, finding what of those new capabilities out there for production within the organization that can help us kind of bridge this time and move into the future; adjust, if you will.
Lee Kantor: [00:02:59] Now, when you’re kind of coming up with this kind of a macro view, how do you get that drilled down into actionable things for your folks that you’re serving?
Paul Nieminen: [00:03:09] Yeah, and that’s a great question. And really, that’s the art of that is taking a strategic viewpoint. I create an architecture. I create a learning development architecture and leadership development architecture. And then, really, drill it down through alignment. So, I align the societal demands to the priorities for the learning organization. And then, we talk a lot about how do we take these demands, and how do we take these priorities, and really link them to the objectives of the learning programs and the learning that we do all the way down to the activities. So, it’s really about some ruthless alignment, is what I call it, which turns the actions, and aligns them to the strategy, and really makes it real for people.
Lee Kantor: [00:04:02] Now, how do you get kind of up and down the chain? How do you get that kind of alignment, and then being heard, and then knowing, “Okay, I can understand how this makes sense for me,” and then them having a voice to maybe kind of help you tweak kind of the overarching strategy? Kind of where it’s a back and forth?
Paul Nieminen: [00:04:21] Yeah, that’s a really good question, Lee, and I’ll give you an example about something we do with Puo. Let’s take racial equality, for example. We know that that’s a societal demand right now, and we know that that and diversity inclusion is a priority for us as Pru, as well as other organizations as well. So, what we do is we take that down and we overlay it over the learning that takes place. So, we have some programmatic learning that we give people the skills and the definitions about D&I.
Paul Nieminen: [00:04:51] But more so than that, and this I think, really gets to your question is, we bring in learning that is more relational. I bring an actual learning, which is something developed by Reg Revens and it’s business-driven action learning. And it’s about bringing these teams together, these diverse groups of people together where they can learn from one another, learn from the environment. They go through a process of asking questions. They go through a process of, really, applying their knowledge to the business issues at hand. And then, that, we bring it from the bottom of the organization up to the strategy, up to the policies, up to the procedures, so the entire organization is learning. So, that’s one example of taking the business demands of racial equity down into the learning, and then back up to the organization’s strategy. It works quite well, and it works quickly. So, you can really build the capability within the organization fast.
Paul Nieminen: [00:06:03] Now, one key here, for me, anyway, is not to rely on the programmatic learning, not to rely on just the learning programs that have a very hierarchical view. It’s really kind of learning, pushing it down from the top, but providing the guidelines, the guardrails, if you will, and creating an environment for people to learn from one another. And then, finding the ways to pull that learning up through the organization, whether it’s presenting to senior leadership or whether it is impacting the policies. So, it’s really learning from inside in, and outside in, and all throughout the organization. So, that’s one example of how we can bring that strategy to life, and then really make an impact, so we can address those societal demands.
Lee Kantor: [00:06:55] And do you find that the culture is really the key to making all of this thing click? Because if the culture and this kind of activity is congruent, and there’s trust and authenticity, then that kind of learning can be shared, and people can become vulnerable, and they want to help, and the information can flow more freely.
Paul Nieminen: [00:07:15] So, that’s another good question, Lee. I could tell you this for a living, asking really good questions. Concerning the culture, let’s look at it as underlying values, norms and belief systems, if you will, that are shared among a group of employees. What I do is, first, I describe what that culture is. And I look at, if this is what I want to do in the organization, if this is the change I want to make, what are the barriers in the culture and these underlying belief systems that might stand in the way? But also, what can I leverage in these belief systems?
Paul Nieminen: [00:07:48] Like, for example, if employees believe that learning from another is very valuable for them, I’ll really leverage that. But if they really believe that the only way to learn is top down, then I’ll find ways to combat that and change that belief system. So, it’s a matter of recognizing the culture, and defining it, and then working with it, and kind of evolving it over time, but finding those spots that inspire people in the culture, and drive that.
Lee Kantor: [00:08:24] Now, when you’re working in this manner, how do you kind of measure the results? Like, I know you have an intention that you would like to have happen, how are you kind of knowing you’re on the right track or if this is even a track worth pursuing?
Paul Nieminen: [00:08:39] Yeah, it’s a good point. So, what I do is I look at, of course, the lagging indicators, because everything that we do needs to align to the business strategy and it’s to move that needle. But that’s really tough sometimes to connect what it is we’re doing to the business outcome like that. So, what I do is I look for those leading indicators. For example, maybe it’s the succession planning processes, or maybe it is some diversity that we’re trying to bring in, or maybe it is readiness of managers. And I put measures around those leading indicators, many times, HR processes, to let me know if I’m on the right track.
Paul Nieminen: [00:09:25] But then, that’s firstly. And secondly, I’ll look at the actual learning itself, and look at the learning objectives, and make sure that you got those right, and make sure that you can measure those learning objectives in some way. So, it’s multiple layers of measurement, but I think that’s really important to design and lay out that measurement way upfront.
Lee Kantor: [00:09:52] And then, what is some of the activity or some of the results that you get that gets you high fives in your team at the end of the quarter?
Paul Nieminen: [00:10:00] Yeah. I’ll tell you what it is for me. So, one of these programs I brought in, I got a letter to my office, and it came in, and it was from one of the participants spouses. And it said, “Paul, I don’t know what you all did in that learning, but my husband sees the world a whole different way. The way he treats my family is different. He’s open to more discussions. He looks at things very differently. He’s a learner now, opposed to a judger,” as the words that were used in this letter. And I kept that because to me, if I can make that impact on leaders, if we as an organization can make that impact and spread that throughout the organization, that’s a high-five too because that was our goal.
Paul Nieminen: [00:11:01] Our goal was to shift the mindsets in the organization from judger to learner, if you will. Similar to racial equity and diversity, the mindset shift would be to really seek out these different perspectives and these fresh perspectives and bring those back into the organization. So, keeping an eye on how we impact the people, that’s what does it for me. That’s what gives me my gratification and my team’s high fives. I got a chat today from somebody over in Europe that said, “We did it. We moved the needle. And everybody is inspired about it.” So, it’s about inspiring people, for me, because that’s how you’re going to impact the business results.
Lee Kantor: [00:11:51] And it goes well beyond that. As the note kind of explains, you’re impacting a family, and that could be impacting a community. It’s not just the kind of work you’re doing at Prudential. The ripples go well beyond Prudential.
Paul Nieminen: [00:12:10] And that’s some of the societal demands, particularly right now with the with the COVID-19, is where the people connect, and what do we provide as an organization? I mean, today, we are the connector in many ways in society. So, we connect as an organization, and then they bring that back to the family, and then it truly does impact society over time. So, I think you’re right. It’s the whole person. It’s the authentic person. It’s the whole person that we’re dealing with.
Paul Nieminen: [00:12:49] And there, we move away from that programmatic view of learning to the relational view of learning, which is the way we started with this conversation. And that, to me, is where we’re heading as a learning industry is much more relational, asking questions, knowing the person, reflection, really taking feedback, and using feedback, and connecting, and looking at the person as a whole as authentic, and connecting those people in a networked way around the organization. And that’s what we do with these programs. And that’s what we do at Pru.
Lee Kantor: [00:13:29] Now, any advice for the learning leader in another organization that’s trying to kind of do similar work that you’ve accomplished at Prudential? How would you go about beginning this or, at least, having the conversations with the senior leadership to open their mind to the power of kind of this kind of thinking?
Paul Nieminen: [00:13:49] Yeah, yeah. And that’s a good one. And what I do is find a way to resonate to the leaders, because it’s really tough when you talk about training in terms of our why and those sort of terms, but if you logically appeal to the leaders, what I do is I create, and I call it an architecture, I create a learning architecture. In other words, these are the demands, this is how we’re going to meet those demands, these are the learning events and strategy we’re going to use to get there, and this is how we’re going to measure it.
Paul Nieminen: [00:14:26] And when they see that alignment, when they see how it all fits together, and it resonates, that’s the first step. And then, from there, building all the detail out of it, and showing them what it is. Because many times, people want to get down into the weeds, but they want to see examples of the weeds. So, start out by, really, calling it what it is, looking at those demands both in the society, the environment, the competitive demands, the customer demands, and then the demands inside the organization, and address those, and look for what I call the litmus test.
Paul Nieminen: [00:15:08] Does it resonate? Do they sit back and say, “That makes sense? I learned something today. I never thought of it that way before.” That’s what I go for in those initial meetings is that aha moment of “I never thought of that before. And that’s a great way to look at it. And that makes a lot of sense.” Then, I know we’re on the right track because that’s what resonates, that builds trust with the leaders, that builds hope that things are going to change, and that builds a lot of confidence in the training and the change that we’re going to build in the organization.
Lee Kantor: [00:15:44] Then, do you try to create like a pilot program or a beta test in order to test that thesis, and then roll it out system-wide? Like, how do you do that?
Paul Nieminen: [00:15:44] Well, I used to do that, but the environment is changing so fast, Lee. And really, I use an agile approach more than a waterfall approach. So, I really get in there, and build it, and start implementing, and let the process learn. Let the learning programs and learning processes themselves evolve with the time. So, I don’t wait. I like to get in there and implement right away because I know we have some sound things. And then, we adjust as we go along.
Paul Nieminen: [00:16:29] So, now, to that point, I look for things that we can leverage and scale within the organization. So, I will start small. I’ll start with small groups, but it’s not necessarily a pilot. It’s more of an implementation at a smaller scale. And then, I look for ways that I can scale that out in the organization, which saves money, saves time and is much more efficient.
Lee Kantor: [00:16:54] So, you’re rolling it out, and you’re learning and tweaking as you go?
Paul Nieminen: [00:16:58] You bet. Absolutely.
Lee Kantor: [00:17:00] So, now, how do you use the learning organization to leverage voice and choice?
Paul Nieminen: [00:17:07] That’s a great question, and one that I have been really working with lately, and that’s been really tough of mind. I’ve been looking at what’s happening within our organization and others. And when I think about voice and choice, I think about diversity and inclusion. Let’s put it in that lens, first of all. And I think the organizations that measures out there for that, we have numbers of diverse candidates in the pipeline. We have numbers of diverse positions, different positions. There’s training out there for implicit bias and all of that.
Paul Nieminen: [00:17:48] And I think that organizations or we, anyway, at Pru, are really evolving past that to include that, of course, that’s necessary, but evolve past that to really look at how do we create the agency in the organization, which is the voice. And I think we do that through using the BRGs. And a lot of organizations have business resource groups. But putting them into learning activities that allow connection with them to other groups in the organization and have them learn in ways that impact the processes and the strategy of the organization. And that’s where action learning again comes in.
Paul Nieminen: [00:18:36] And I’m a true strong believer in action learning. I’ve seen it work over and over again. Again, it’s attributed to the work of Reg Revens, who first brought it from some Nobel Prize winners. But it’s about searching out that fresh perspective, searching out learning from one another, searching out learning from outside the organization. Well, it’s this voice and choice that’s that fresh perspective. So, bringing these folks together, bringing this voice together in a learning community that impacts strategy, impacts policy, impacts decision making.
Paul Nieminen: [00:19:16] And you do that. We do that in Pru through action learning, through other types of programs that we have specifically for these groups, working on projects, this sort of things. So, it’s about the feedback. It’s about how do you get feedback from these groups into the strategy, the policies and the decisions that the organization makes. And that’s been on top of mind for me. And that’s really where when I build a learning architecture, and I look at these kind of demands of the environment, as well as the expectations of our organization at Pru, is to increase this voice, it’s about putting in the structure, the learning structure, to be able to get information not just from top down, but the learning structure to get information from bottom up and across the organization through different teams, through different supports, through different learning classes, through nominated type of learning activities, all of that.
Lee Kantor: [00:20:25] So, you’re actually bringing folks together that are across all layers of the organization, so it’s not siloed kind of learning, it’s across the board altogether, and then they’re able to share, and kind of get to know each other, and understand and maybe have more empathy for each other?
Paul Nieminen: [00:20:42] You’re right. That’s the relational part of it. So, specifically, we look at getting diverse groups of people together in a learning environment, like you said, from different levels, from different business units, from different parts of the globe, different geos, bringing them together and facilitating in a very strong way how they learn together. So, I use a lot of questioning. Instead of just giving information and saying, “What are your ideas here?” we use a lot of questioning to get at their underlying assumptions. So, through questioning, we can understand their underlying assumptions, understand their world view. That gives us the empathy that you’re talking about.
Paul Nieminen: [00:21:27] And then, we look at how we apply that worldview in different parts of the organization into the strategy. And that is that process of providing those guardrails for the learning, not just throwing people in the room and seeing what they come up with, not just throwing people on a project and assuming that they’re going to be able to get their voices heard, but facilitating the questioning in that deeper understanding. That’s what creates the change. And then, providing the environment and the pipeline to get that fresh perspective, to impact the policies and the organization. Does that make sense?
Lee Kantor: [00:22:05] Well, and also-
Paul Nieminen: [00:22:05] I wanted it practical. Hopefully, that’s not too theoretical.
Lee Kantor: [00:22:10] No, but it’s also you want to be able to have them see that they were heard and that you’re doing something, at least, along those lines, that you’re taking action along their thinking.
Paul Nieminen: [00:22:24] And that’s where that inspiration comes in. That’s where the inspiration comes in, Lee. So, when learners go through that, and they feel valued, and they feel heard, and they see the impact of their learning to the organization. If there’s one thing I heard over and over again the most, and this is what … again, to your high-five point – is people came up to us, and they continue to come up to us, and they said, “I have a lot of hope.” And that’s the word they use over and over again. And they have hope because they see how they impact the organization, and they see how their ideas can bubble up and really make a difference. And that’s where the inspiration comes from. And so, that in itself changes the culture of the organization into a very, very productive, inspirational, all-inclusive organization.
Lee Kantor: [00:23:27] So, now, as we head into 2021, any advice for folks regarding this new post-COVID world that we’re in for leadership? Maybe things that they should be thinking about that can be rolled out organizationally?
Paul Nieminen: [00:23:45] I do think so. I think that it’s so important to look at the collective capability of an organization. We spent a lot of time looking at individual competencies and look at how we develop individuals within the organization. I think we really need to take more of a collective view and look at the those critical capabilities that the organization does together, or the function does together, or groups do together, and identifying those and finding ways to build and develop those capabilities.
Paul Nieminen: [00:24:26] So, again, the difference is this is a capability across a shared group of people, like maybe it’s succession planning if you’re in HR, or maybe it’s actuary if you’re in an insurance group, or maybe it’s about the customer experience and these sorts of things. Finding those and allowing the space to develop there, not just looking at it from individual competency standpoint, because when people are working together and learning together, the environment’s moving too fast for us to fragment and deconstruct so much into those competencies.
Paul Nieminen: [00:25:08] So, my advice for 2021 would be to identify what of those three key capabilities, either at the organization or the functional level, that’s collective, and focus on those because that’s what’s going to give the differentiated competitive advantage. That’s what’s going to set your organization apart or your function apart. And if you’re support function, that’s what’s going to bring the biggest impact to the organization at all. So, that’s kind of what I’m looking at for 2021 is identifying and building those capabilities because the fact is, is that, Lee, they change every two to three years. So, that’s why you can’t take three years to develop a program for capabilities. You really have to identify them right away, and then find ways through people and from a relational standpoint to really develop them in an agile way. And agile, I mean, our processes to do that.
Lee Kantor: [00:26:16] Well, Paul, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing important work, and we appreciate you.
Paul Nieminen: [00:26:22] Lee, thank you very much. And I’m very excited about what Pru is doing. I mean, we’re really a true learning organization, and I’m real excited to be able to bring my craft there. So, thank you very much for having me.
Lee Kantor: [00:26:35] Now, if somebody wants to learn more about Prudential, the website?
Paul Nieminen: [00:26:39] Absolutely, prudential.com.
Lee Kantor: [00:26:41] And if somebody wants to connect with you, what’s the best way? Is that LinkedIn?
Paul Nieminen: [00:26:47] Yeah, Lee, connect with me on LinkedIn. You have my information. My name, Paul Nieminen. And feel free, anybody out there, to connect with me, and I’d be happy to share with you, and also collaborate with you on things that you’re doing in your organization.
Lee Kantor: [00:27:03] Well, thank you again for sharing your story, Paul.
Paul Nieminen: [00:27:06] Thank you, Lee. Have a great afternoon.
Lee Kantor: [00:27:08] All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Learning Insights. And remember, this work could not be done without the support of our sponsor, TrainingPros. Please support them, so we can continue to share these important stories.
Outro: [00:27:23] Thank you for listening. For more information about TrainingPros, visit their website at training-pros.com.
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