Jacob Lapera, Author at Business RadioX ® Page

Melissa Brogdon With FourthParty

February 1, 2022 by Jacob Lapera

Atlanta Business Radio

Melissa Brogdon With FourthParty

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Melissa R. Brogdon co-founded FourthParty, a Legal technology Saas company, to provide a more efficient practice management solution for negotiators. In her role as COO, Melissa manages the development team and customer experience for FourthParty’s enterprise solutions. FourthParty has been recognized by selected for the $100,000 Black Founders Fund Award as well as features on Google and Hypepotamus.

Prior to FourthParty, Melissa was an accomplished nonprofit professional in addition to earning the distinction of Certified Fundraising Executive. Her work supported more than $10 million of philanthropic investments to vulnerable women, children, and communities in Georgia since 2014.

In addition to her professional work, Melissa volunteers is a founding board member with Atlanta Unbound Academy. Melissa is a proud native of Oakland, CA , and an alumna of Spelman College and The University of Pennsylvania’s Graduate School of Education.

Connect with Melissa on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

Trends in Legal technology
GA startup/technology landscape
Dispute Resolution trends

This transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:04] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio brought to you by onpay Atlanta’s new standard in payroll. Now here’s your host

Lee Kantor: [00:00:24] Lee Kantor here another episode of Atlanta Business Radio, and this is going to be a fun one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor onpay without them. We couldn’t be sharing these important stories today on Atlanta Business Radio. We have Melissa Brogdon with fourth party. Welcome.

Melissa Brogdon: [00:00:42] Thank you, Lee. Super happy to be here.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:44] Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us a little bit about fourth party. How are you serving, folks?

Melissa Brogdon: [00:00:50] Absolutely so. Fourth party provides modern solutions to legacy problems within the legal space, and it’s particularly catering towards mediators and arbitrators. And that’s just like a lot of words to essentially say we focus on negotiators, those middlemen who help everyday people navigate things like car accidents, divorces, custody battles or even the landlord tenant disputes. We just help them do their job better.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:14] So what’s an example of ways that you help them do their job better?

Melissa Brogdon: [00:01:19] Absolutely. So Fourth Party is really focused on making sure that a negotiator can access case files securely anytime, anywhere. The pandemic really exacerbated a problem that’s existed for decades in the legal space, which is legacy paper based systems can’t be accessed in a remote world. So we really make the process of accessing that information easier, more secure with tools for communication, document storage as well in data and insights. And really, we mirror that process the experiences that they’ve had sort of those time honored traditions that are part of the negotiation process. We just make that a little bit easier so that our adoption of our tool can be a little bit faster for them

Lee Kantor: [00:02:04] Now is faster, kind of a double edged sword for lawyers because, you know, a part of I’m not a lawyer, but as a layperson, I think that they like the idea of me thinking that they’re going through a dusty old book thinking of some obscure case. You know, that’s going to save the day, and that requires a lot of time, and that time is expensive. And then if I can just Google search, you know, cases that are relevant to me and in two seconds, you know, 30 things pop up. Is that good or bad from the lawyer?

Melissa Brogdon: [00:02:38] So, so I’ll clarify a little bit that we most of the mediators that we work with are lawyers, but their role is really an authoritative position to help the lawyers who are representing the everyday folks like me. And you sort of get to that, get through that conversation smoothly and they are just balancing so much information. And right now, a lot of folks are doing that with a pen and a legal pad. And so we’re really helping them to kind of move into the modern age with that process and make sure that that information is secure. Because if they’re using that pad and paper, not only is it sort of a time waster, but it also is a really unsecure process that might leave your private information accessible to people that you don’t want to have it.

Lee Kantor: [00:03:29] Now, is this something these kind of changes moving from paper and pencil to digital is a lot of legacy organizations are going, kicking and screaming into this world, even though for the people who are already there, this seems obvious and logical, and there’s no reason to go backwards. But for some reason, you know, it’s not just this industry. There’s several other industries out there that this is like a hill they all want to die on. How are you helping them with this kind of behavior change and this kind of legacy thinking of this might not be the best way today to be doing this kind of work, even though it has worked this way for, you know, decades, if not, you know, multiple decades or a hundred years now.

Melissa Brogdon: [00:04:15] Right, right. Well, well, you know, we agree that our biggest competition is the status quo, the way things that have always been done. And we really do serve a pretty diverse user base and that our users range from age thirty five to 80. And so their experience engaging with technology is as varied and a part of what we sort of message and really try to drive home with folks is we are trying to augment and complement the human centered work that you do. So it’s not so much about change or, you know, sort of villainizing the process as it is. It’s really about adaptation and making sure that people are prepared for what’s ahead of them and doing that really in a compassionate way. That hasn’t been the way that Big Tech has necessarily approached sort of transitioning folks who are sort of used to those legacy systems doing that in a compassionate way has really helped us to engage people and get them onto the platform now.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:23] And a lot of SAS projects like yours and companies like yours. The aim is always for the aspirin, not the vitamin right. Look, I’m trying to solve a problem that is dire and not something that would be nice to solve down the road. Is this elevated to that level with the folks that you’re serving?

Melissa Brogdon: [00:05:46] Yeah. I mean, I think we see our our relationship with negotiators as certainly urgent and time sensitive. What we’re seeing is a real sort of crisis, and it was exacerbated by the pandemic, but something that was sort of building up, which is a justice gap in terms of the ability for people to access the sort of representation that they need. And so we see a lot of cases go unheard because there just is not there just is not enough time in our court systems or enough negotiators to handle that work. And so we’re really invested in making sure that as people join this, this career and consider even a career shift to two negotiations, that they’re equipped with the tools to really accelerate their career as quickly as possible. So we focus a lot on process mapping, really coaching people through the process so that they can sort of have an educational coach as a part of using our tool.

Lee Kantor: [00:06:51] Now, do you have a story you can share about how maybe somebody who was skeptical or, you know, just decided to take the leap into your platform? We’re able to use that in order to, you know? To win something or to to gain something. Maybe surprise, maybe surprise their client.

Melissa Brogdon: [00:07:12] Absolutely. So the reason that we thought of building this tool was a personal challenge. It really started with the family meeting between myself and my husband, who is a mediator who’s mediated over 200 cases virtually. And he was faced with an individual reaching out to him for some information about a about a negotiation that he actually wasn’t able to settle. And he spent an hour literally throwing sheets of paper over his shoulders, trying to find the detail that that person was looking for. And that was really the light bulb moment for us that there needed to be a way for people to access that information in a much easier way and also say that time on the negotiator side to be able to update and move that process along. And so if you think about that as just one small example of the ways that people are losing time and then in turn, the people who are actually bringing the conflict to bear are the ones who suffer as a result of that, as costs skyrocket and time, they lose time in that process. So it really is an experience, a pain point that we experienced personally and a part of us. Being able to collaborate and bring this sort of universal tool to bear is really something that was a response to a challenge we faced ourselves.

Lee Kantor: [00:08:44] Now, being an emerging brand is identifying that ideal client is is one of the biggest challenges. Have you been able to kind of hone in on, you know, who the persona of this ideal client? Is this this negotiator? Is it a judge? Is it a lawyer? Is it a mediator? Like, do you know who this person is? That is the most likely to consider this?

Melissa Brogdon: [00:09:14] Yeah. So we’re we’re we’re hyper focused on alternative dispute resolution firms, and those are organizations that really help negotiators with that administrative load booking and all of the things that come along with going into a negotiation that really aren’t a part of that active negotiation process. But we’re also thinking about that solo neutral, a person who’s probably been practicing at least 10 to 15 years, maybe a little bit disenchanted with their experience as an attorney. Maybe the work life balance isn’t the right fit for them, and so they’re considering a shift into the mediation space or have already certified. And they’re looking for a way to turn this from really a side hustle from the beginning into a second career.

Lee Kantor: [00:10:06] And then with fourth party, this really that person doesn’t have any of that legacy thinking this is kind of a fresh idea for them, and this enables them to get up and running faster

Melissa Brogdon: [00:10:18] A little bit. I mean, we still face the fact that they are coming out of the legal space. And so whatever notions and experiences and habits, they still bring those to fourth party. And so we do still have to challenge some of that thinking. But as we engage with early career neutrals and folks who are in that in that age range, they have a little bit more experience with technology. They’re using it every day. They’re engaging with customer relationship management systems in prior experiences, and so they do have some reference points. And again, the fact that our tool really mirrors some of those time honored traditions that they’re used to doing in a in a paper based system. It feels more familiar than a tool that maybe has been built by someone who isn’t truly an industry expert.

Lee Kantor: [00:11:09] So now what’s your back story? Had you been involved in software as a service before, technology before?

Melissa Brogdon: [00:11:17] Yes. So my background is actually in nonprofit of operations. And then I was working part time for the past seven years supporting my husband’s law firm, who is also my co-founder. A fourth party. And so I got to watch sort of deal with some of those administrative pain points and problem solve around that. So when we were first thinking about a solution to having a rifle through all those papers and throw them over his shoulders, we went through several different iterations of using up to a dozen different applications to create some kind of workflow management tool for him. And so that’s where my expertize came in and as he did interviews with colleagues and really engaged with hundreds of. Mediators who were experiencing the same challenges that he was facing. He was able to create that universal workflow and then I could incorporate time saving and efficiency and process management into that workflow so that we could create the basis of fourth party.

Lee Kantor: [00:12:22] Now what about the technology element of it? Were either of you coders or technologists or did you have to partner with someone to in order to get it?

Melissa Brogdon: [00:12:30] We, we’re both. I put quotes around non-technical. We actually got to engage with the team that was based in Jackson, Mississippi. Some really smart young engineers who were really excited about the opportunity to jump into this kind of work. And so they actually had some limited experience, but really ambitious. And they were the ones that brought forth parties MVP to the to to the place where it is now.

Lee Kantor: [00:12:58] So now where is that place? Are you looking for funders? Are you? How can we help you? What do you need more of? Do you need funding? Do you need clients or is this funded?

Melissa Brogdon: [00:13:08] All of it. We need all of it. So we actually just wrapped up a pilot with one of the largest alternative dispute resolution firms in the Southeast. And so our tool has currently has over 2000 active cases on it, and we’re serving negotiators in seven states. And we’re thinking about certainly planning for funding. So we were really lucky last year to receive $100000 from Google for startups to help support us in this early stage of development. And now we’re looking to bring on new partners and advisors and advocates, so definitely looking for investors to have a legal background and can really understand the magic of this tool and where we are trying to go, but also looking for those advisors and advocates who can be a part of our team and coach us and support us as we accelerate into this, this new realm. So right now, we are super, hyper focused on building a really high quality tool and making sure that we are able to serve the new firms that we bring on this quarter. And then the next really well.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:26] Well, congratulations on all the success, if there is someone out there that wants to learn more about fourth party, what is the website?

Melissa Brogdon: [00:14:36] They can reach us at fourth party, and it’s spelled out F O U R R T Dot app. Connect with us. We would love to talk. We’re always looking to have conversations with mediators, lawyers, judges, anyone who might be interested in using the tool, but really, again, with a focus on building the right tool for people. We want to understand their pain points and would love to have a conversation.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:05] Good stuff. Well, again, congratulations on all the success you’re doing. Important work and we appreciate you.

Melissa Brogdon: [00:15:12] Thank you, Lee. Thank you.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:13] All right. This is Lee Kantor our next time on Atlanta Business Radio.

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Adina Saperstein With Adina Rose Coaching

February 1, 2022 by Jacob Lapera

Austin Business Radio

Adina Saperstein With Adina Rose Coaching

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Adina Saperstein is a multidisciplinary practitioner, facilitator, teacher, coach and homesteader, driven by a commitment to help others build rich, vibrant and sustainable tapestries of life, livelihood and community, anchored in ancestral wisdom and values.

For over a decade she rose up through an exciting, successful career in the field of international economic and community development, working in twenty countries in sectors ranging from horticulture to hospitality to post-conflict recovery. In her mid-30’s, burned out, disillusioned, and craving deeper purpose, she left her full-time consulting career and, with the guidance of yoga and meditation teachers, healing arts practitioners and coaches, began to strip away the veneer of success and accomplishment she uncover what lay beneath.

Adina is a student of a constellation of teachers who guide her to deepen her personal and ancestral healing and growth, and to transmit what they’ve taught through her own offerings.

Her practice with clients integrates Transformational Coaching and Yoga Therapy, which help her guide others through big life changes with courage, integrity and grace.

She is also certified in and has taught Hatha, Vinyasa, Kundalini and Pre-natal yoga; Yoga for 12-Step recovery; and mindfulness-based meditation, all of which she passes on with discernment and deep reverence for the lineages from which they have been received. She is also currently pursuing a Masters of Mental Health Counseling, with the aspiration of integrating all of these modalities in a more holistic, accessible manner.

When she’s not working with inspiring people you’ll find her hiking, cycling, gardening, cooking, playing with clay, and exploring in the Hudson Valley and far beyond with her amazing partner in crime and growing family.

Connect with Adina on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

How & when to take the leap of leaving a secure job to pursue your calling
“Find your GEAR” model
Ground-Envision-Actualize-Reflect
Make sure to reset/shift gear seasonally to work with the energetic cycles of the year
How to succeed by rooting your work in the community

This transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:02] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Coach the Coach radio brought to you by the Business RadioX Ambassador Program, the no cost business development strategy for coaches who want to spend more time serving local business clients and less time selling them. Go to B.R. Ambassador to learn more. Now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:32] Lee Kantor here, another episode of Coach the Coach Radio, and this is going to be a fun one today on the show, we have Adina Saperstein and she is with Adina Rose coaching. Welcome.

Adina Saperstein: [00:00:43] Hi, good to be here.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:45] Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us a little bit about your practice. How are you serving, folks?

Adina Saperstein: [00:00:50] Yeah, absolutely. So I refer to myself as an integrative coach, which means that I integrate traditional transformational life coaching along with some other modalities that I am trained in in practice, including yoga, therapy and other forms of healing arts. I practice reiki. I have been a yoga and meditation instructor for many years. And so when I work with people, I work in two ways. Some clients, I do stick more to the conventional coaching if that’s what they are looking for and weave in the other pieces a little more subtly. Some of the more energetic aspects of working through blockages and just really tapping into your full potential. And then some clients, I do a longer, longer integrative sessions where I actually do formal work with them on movement and or sometimes a reiki session or whatever it may be people who are more receptive to and seeking out that kind of more holistic approach.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:04] Now do you find that in this kind of chaotic time that we’re living through right now, maybe this transitional period that self-care has kind of been elevated to much more importance than people are becoming more mindful about the importance of self-care?

Adina Saperstein: [00:02:21] I think absolutely that it has, but it’s a bit of a catch twenty two because, of course, a lot of the structures that people may have had in place or may want to access to. Access health care have been compromised, so working from home, not being able to get to a gym or a yoga studio, a lot of those have not even been open. So obviously that makes it really tricky. And one piece that I think that I’ve found with a lot of my clients, as well as colleagues, coaches and other other wellness practitioners and and such is that as a result of the flexibility that we have in our schedules, which of course, we’re always really excited about that flexibility. And that’s one of the things that draws a lot of people to coaching, I think, is that that flexibility in our in our schedules, in our lives, but actually in a way that can really actually be detrimental to our self-care when we have no or very little routine, regular routine and rhythm in our day, day to day that can make it really tricky to get in the kinds of self-care disciplines, whether it’s practice or nutrition nourishment that comes with having sort of set meals at certain times. This is something that has come through a lot of my training and yoga therapy and comes from from from many of the eastern traditions is just the real need to have routine and regularity day to day in order for our bodies to be able to get into a rhythm so it can be really challenging. Even more so when we have when the externally imposed structures that came for a lot of us from going to a workplace are taken away. And then again, for coaches in general who who don’t tend to have those kinds of as much of those as externally imposed structures and routines even more so challenging.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:48] Now how does kind of the need for your services typically present themselves to a prospective client? What are they struggling with? What are maybe some of the breadcrumbs or symptoms that maybe they’re going through and not aware that maybe they need kind of some help or some conversations with you or a person like you?

Adina Saperstein: [00:05:10] Sure. Well, I think number one is just a feeling of stuckness. That was certainly what what drew me to coaching as a client before I became a coach myself, just a feeling of being stuck, whether some people that come to me have an idea of what it is that they would like to do, but are sort of stuck on the precipice of actually taking the leap to go for it. And some for some, it’s it’s much bigger just to a feeling of discontent with their current situation and maybe a vague concept of of what they might want to do differently. So sometimes the the health and wellness piece is more pronounced. And increasingly, as I have stepped up my work in the yoga therapy piece that has been there have been more people coming to me with with that particular aspect. But generally it generally it tends to be people who are either aspiring entrepreneurs or early stage people who have either recently sort of taken the leap to leave a full time job or go to part time or something like that to carve out time for another pursuit that they’re interested in or are again, just just sort of trying to line things up and and and and energetically sort of brace themselves to be able to take that leap.

Lee Kantor: [00:06:52] Now let’s, if you don’t mind, share some advice for those folks who are at the precipice. Is there some things they could be doing or thinking about when it is that time where they’re struggling? Or maybe getting the nerve up to take that leap into leaving something that may be feel secure, but maybe isn’t really secure, but it feels secure and then pursuing something that has more purpose?

Adina Saperstein: [00:07:16] Sure. Well, number one, I would say, and this is something that I think a lot of coaches start sessions by asking and I certainly was trained to do this, which is to identify and anchor into all of the resources that they have. Available so whether that family or friends or other support structures in their community, whether that is, whether that’s financial and and. Finding creative ways in which there are so many of these days of accessing financing, whether it’s whether it’s crowdsourcing, whether it’s resources that may be available from from a loved one in some creative way, I do feel like it’s important to name here that there’s a lot of privilege and involved in, I think the the the. A world in which Kochi tends to happen, so people obviously have to be able to pay for coaching, and there’s often, unfortunately an assumption that there are resources available somewhere to tap into that may not be actually the case. So I think just taking a really realistic view of what those resources are on all those different fronts emotional, psychological, financial or other other types of resources. And then being really realistic about that. And I will I’ll share in my own story at the moment when I took the leap and left my full time career about 12 years ago and I, I staged it. I first went to part time and I, I, I began. I created another income stream that I was able to rely on before I really took that leap. But even so, even even with that, all of that in place if I, you know, looking back, if I were coaching somebody in that in that situation, I probably would advise to even take it even slower, leaving that security, that safety net of a job. It’s nothing to take lightly and can certainly lead if it’s if it happens too quickly, can lead to a lot of anxiety and things that and situations that aren’t aren’t ideal. So I would say just definitely tread, tread carefully and first and foremost, identify an anchor into all of the resources, really excavate all of the resources available to you.

Lee Kantor: [00:10:20] Now, since you’ve been doing coaching, I’m assuming that your methodology has evolved based on what you’re learning. It sounds like you’re a lifelong learner and you’re always looking for more information to make more informed decisions. Have you kind of stumbled upon a methodology yourself? That is the DNA methodology that kind of summarizes the path that your clients are now or you recommend your clients following?

Adina Saperstein: [00:10:50] Yes, I’ll share that and I’ll also start. You know, I really have been trained to always start by acknowledging my own teachers and the lineages in all of the very all of the various lineages that I draw from, which are really vast. As you said, I do really consider myself a lifelong teacher. I’ve had the benefit of of learning and absorbing from many, many different wisdom lineages, both spiritual and in the coaching realm. I was trained by Joanna Lindenbaum and her sacred depths training course. I just want to acknowledge her. First of all, she was what really drew me into and really gave me the foundation of coaching and other many other teachers as well that I draw from, but. So with that said, what I have developed, that is sort of I would say my signature is sort of a four part approach. So and I call it the the. It started as the gear up. So the acronym is Gear G a R, which I’ll share in a moment in a moment. And I started by calling it gear up. And then what? I really what I realized is that it’s more about shifting into the right gear for you in the moment that you’re in. So that may be shifting up that gearing up, that may be gearing down and really acknowledging where we are in the cycles of our own energetic world, as well as the seasons which really inform the energy that’s that’s coming through us at a particular time. So finding our own gear and the the acronym is a g is ground.

Adina Saperstein: [00:12:44] So that’s the foundation of really everything I do. And that word is thrown around a lot. So I’ll just define what it means to me is to really anchor into our location in time and space. So really just anchoring into where are we right now? And part of that for me is anchoring in to our values in in our in our life, in the present moment. What’s really what do we really want to ground into to as a foundation for? Whatever we do today and in the period that we are that we’re foreseeing anticipating planning for, so ground, the second is envision and I do a lot of a lot of work on visioning visualization. I do a lot of guided guided visualization practices to really from that place of grounding. Visualize where would you like to be, whether it’s a two year or a five year trajectory that we’re that we’re thinking towards, usually five years at the most and really encouraging people to really let that vision crystallize. And with each session, and I ask people, I ask my clients to write out that vision again and again and revisit that vision so that it it starts to crystallize in more and more detail. And I will tell you some of the things that I have seen come to fruition that based on those, those really detailed crystallized visions have been quite astounding to me the way that reality starts to line up with those visions.

Adina Saperstein: [00:14:45] So it’s a really powerful practice. And so which leads into the A, which is actualized, and that’s where we get into the nuts and bolts of how to make these things happen. So my work really balances the two parts of sort of the energetic. Work of of getting people through blockages and and really creating the momentum to move forward and then the nuts and bolts, my background is in consulting business consulting. That was my first career, which I did internationally. I worked in 20 countries, so I have a lot of project management experience. I have a lot of. I’m a big believer in really getting into the details of how are we going to make this? Actually, acts actually happen. These are the plans that result in those, in those in those visions. And then the answer is twofold. Actually, it’s I reflect and also reset. So this is a process of just constantly going back and and reflecting on where, where, how far, how far we’ve come, what will be done skillfully. What could we have done more skillfully? Are there aspects of this vision or the action plan that we want to refine and then and and resetting just constantly touching back into where we are energetically giving ourselves again, coming back to the self care, resetting with self-care practices and spiritual practices, whatever they may be for the individual to again put us in a place to really be in a constant and a constant flow with this with this work.

Lee Kantor: [00:16:52] Now how do you help your clients who might be stuck in maybe the envisioning part of this where they do vision boards and they can visualize what they would like their life to be? But it’s almost like they’re using that as a stalling tactic to take the next step of the actualization and the action that’s needed to help make those dreams come true.

Adina Saperstein: [00:17:14] Absolutely. I mean, great. Great question. And this is where getting into really specific action steps, homework. I mean, just really giving very concrete, really. And it’s there co-created assignments. I’m not just dictating to go do this, you know, this week, it’s very it tends to come very intuitively in terms of of. Co-creating those with a client, but just an example that comes to mind in terms of bridging that gap. So I have a couple of clients actually working on book projects, and this is a piece of advice that I was given at one point when I was actually working on a book project several years ago, which is to go to go visit bookstores and begin to visualize your book on the shelves. So that is still that’s sort of that’s an example of something that’s kind of bridges the gap. It’s still it’s still in the in the visioning and visualizing realm. But there is a concrete action in terms of just getting out of the house, going to a bookstore, actually doing doing something about it. And then from there, that’s when we can get into the really the nuts and bolts of what are you going to tackle this week? Are we going to? Can we agree to five pages this week on this book proposal that that kind of thing?

Lee Kantor: [00:18:50] Now, you mentioned earlier the importance of having some sort of a support network around you of people, fans, maybe financiers, people helping their cheering you on. How important is developing this kind of a community in in a person’s work?

Adina Saperstein: [00:19:11] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I I feel that it’s crucial and there’s there’s two parts to it, right? There’s so much community building now that’s that’s done in the in the online realm, which is absolutely very, very powerful. Absolutely. And at the same time, I think that often many of us, especially if we live in bigger cities, can really just. Focus put all of our energy on in that sphere. And what tends to be lost is the real hands on face to face community building of just getting to know, getting to know business owners, entrepreneurs like minded souls, colleagues, whatever it may be, actually in your community. And I myself moved about four years ago from from New York, Brooklyn, up to the Hudson Valley in the town of Catskill, which is a lovely, little lovely little town. And there are a few other really vibrant towns right around us, and it has been really a joy and a privilege to just be able to form community in a smaller sort of microcosm of of of a town in a region like this where it’s really a matter of getting to know other other entrepreneurs, business owners, seeing even people who are just. Working in the in the local community, but interested, potentially interested in starting their own business or making some kind of shift and just getting to know people through word of mouth. More and more of my clients have been coming to me that way. And it’s become a really nice opportunity to start to envision to do this, visualizing practice not just on the individual level, but really on the community level and and engaging in dialog with these peers and colleagues around what would we like our community to look like in five years? How can we really be a hub of wellness and inner work and entrepreneurship and all of these things that we’re all individually committed to? But how can we support each other around that and really create a community around that? So I would say certainly again, the online community building is can be really powerful and really nourishing, but not to let that replace old fashioned face-to-face community building.

Lee Kantor: [00:22:24] Yeah, I agree. I think there’s a the internet. I guess the, you know, the yin and the yang of the internet is that it’s global and it’s the world. But there’s a community right around you, you know, walking distance and a lot of people forget about that. And they’re so focused on connecting with people all over the world because it seems so vast and the opportunity seems so grand, which is great and true. But it’s also you can really make a difference in your neighborhood or in your community or your town just by walking outside. And a lot of people forget that, I think, and they’re so tied to electronic devices, they forget that, you know, human to human contact is something that’s been around for a long time, and it’s not going anywhere, either.

Adina Saperstein: [00:23:09] Yeah, I mean, I’m just I’m just reminded of Gabby Bernstein, who got her start really in her motivational speaking empire by going to her local community centers and just asking to be able to give these talks for free, you know, to people and just offering that. And that’s that’s how she started. So that’s a pretty, pretty powerful testimonial.

Lee Kantor: [00:23:40] Yeah, I agree. I think that I think there’s a parable or a book called like acres of Diamonds, that a lot of people are scouring the Earth to find this pot of gold when it might be in your backyard, right?

Adina Saperstein: [00:23:53] Yeah, absolutely.

Lee Kantor: [00:23:54] Well, if somebody wants to learn more about your practice and get a hold of you and just check out what you got going on, is there a website?

Adina Saperstein: [00:24:03] Yeah, yeah. Dena rose dot com. So a D and A is my name and rose, which is my middle name named after my great grandmother. So using that name, which I don’t use normally is actually has been part of my sort of ancestral healing journey. So Edina Rose.

Lee Kantor: [00:24:29] Good stuff. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing important work and we appreciate you.

Adina Saperstein: [00:24:34] Thank you so much. Thanks for thanks for reaching out. It’s been a pleasure talking to you.

Lee Kantor: [00:24:39] All right, this is Lee Kantor. We’ll see, y’all next time on Coach the Coach radio.

Michelle Fox With Foxygen Consulting

February 1, 2022 by Jacob Lapera

Workplace Wisdom

Michelle Fox With Foxygen Consulting

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Michelle Fox brings exceptional talent in the areas of leadership coaching, emotional health, conflict resolution, and cultural dynamics. Michelle has devoted her career to understanding people and helping them to understand themselves as they adapt and navigate their own environment and life circumstances.

She is best known for her trainings on “Becoming Emotionally and Relationally Fit”, “The Healthy Hurried Human” as well as “Developing The Whole Minded Leader”. She brings to the table almost 25 years of experience, having worked as a Consultant with the U.S. Military, running her own counseling practice and now also works as the Founder and CEO of Foxygen Consulting.

Connect with Michelle on LinkedIn and Facebook.

This transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:08] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for workplace wisdom sharing, insight, perspective and best practices for creating the planet’s best workplaces. Now here’s your host.

Stone Payton: [00:00:30] Welcome to another exciting and informative edition of Workplace Wisdom Stone Payton here with you this morning. You guys are in for a real treat. Please join me in welcoming to the broadcast with Foxygen Consulting founder and CEO Miss Michelle Fox. How are you?

Michelle Fox: [00:00:49] I’m good. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Stone Payton: [00:00:51] Oh, I have really been looking forward to this. There’s so many topics that I’d like to touch on and we’re going to go there. But before we do, maybe a little primer, overview, mission purpose, what are you and your team really out there trying to do for folks?

Michelle Fox: [00:01:06] Oh, that’s a good question, because we are trying to do. Sometimes it feels like a hundred things, but it really comes down to like three things that we’re trying to do. Our biggest focus of our business with oxygen is we really want to work with companies and organizations where they have more than two people because I like to remind our our our group that where there’s two people, you have a culture and because everyone is using that word, we talked before the show that there’s tag, you know, tag words like culture and culture is one of those things where people are hearing it ad nauseum, you know, it’s like, we’re hearing it too much. What does that even mean? So we’re trying to get more involved in the dynamics of work life because it’s changed over the last two years dramatically. Yeah. You know, so we are trying to come in and help create energy synergy, understanding who owns the culture. That is such a good question that’s coming up lately, who owns the culture, leaderships in business and organizations think they do or their people do. But then the people think, Well, it’s the leadership. Nobody really knows who owns the culture, who’s creating that work environment and where’s the satisfaction coming from

Stone Payton: [00:02:26] That must be incredibly well. I don’t mean to suggest for one minute your work doesn’t have its own set of challenges. I’m sure it does. Yeah, but it must be incredibly rewarding work.

Michelle Fox: [00:02:37] It is. It very much is. When you’re able to go in and you think about stone, people spend a lot of time at work, whether they’re working from home or going into an office. A lot of your your day or night, but your time is taken up by work. Why not when you leave, even though you’re tired, it’s like that same tired you get from when you’ve run your 5K or other enjoyable activities that you’ve just given all the energy. But afterwards you’re like, Yes, you’re tired, right? Yes. So why not help everyone who comes to work feel that way about what they’re spending so much time on because when they go home or when they’re in relationships? They yes, they’re tired they have spent, but it’s not this dryness that’s like, oh, I have nothing else left for you children or spouse or parents that are aging or whoever else we’re trying to give time to. We’re not completely spent. We’re able to say, OK, that that I gave it all at work. But now I have a different energy to pull from to do these relationships. And when we have satisfaction in those two areas, boy, I think life just tends to be much sweeter.

Stone Payton: [00:03:51] Well, you lit up the room when you walked in before we even came on the show. So I know how passionate you are about the work, and I’m glad I asked that question. But I got to know. So what’s the back story? How do you find yourself in this career doing this for a living?

Michelle Fox: [00:04:06] That’s OK. So I love to tell this story because people are like, Wow, you’ve done like all of these things. And I was getting discouraged because I thought, nobody understands that all of the things that I’ve done had the same common theme, and my husband helped me kind of narrate that. But after I graduated from graduate school with psychology and counseling and education, I I’ve I’ve worked with military as a consultant and then went into. I had some law enforcement work and then eventually opened my own practice in Philadelphia and did counseling and marriage and family life counseling. But the biggest thing for me was when we moved back to Philadelphia, back to Atlanta from Philadelphia, and I’ve always had a heart. I worked in a little bit in work workforce development in Philadelphia, and the seed started there for the blue collar worker. Seeing that, you know, big companies do a lot of things for your white collar workers. You know, we have employee assistance programs, right? They do a lot of, you know, the help. You know, this is my big thing is you go into any big company and they have a workout room because in the nineties it was really important. Let’s care about their physical health. So we’re going to clean out the janitor’s closet and create a workout room, right? And nobody’s going to take that away because then that looks terrible.

Michelle Fox: [00:05:32] But nobody’s really paying attention to the blue collar worker. The factory floor. And no one’s really paying attention when there’s mergers and acquisitions to what’s happening to that culture when they get taken over and we move everything and we combine two different cultures of people from St. Louis and Kentucky to or that’s the same place St. Louis and Kentucky with, I don’t know, Miami, right? What happens there? So we what I found is in organizations, they kind of forget the lower down the totem pole of how to care for those workers. However, those workers are what drive that drive the profitability, the environment. It’s those workers. And so that’s where the seed was planted to kind of start bringing in some, Hey, how can I help you kind of care for the whole minded worker and see the leadership in every worker because there’s leadership potential and everybody who goes to work. But we don’t always leadership doesn’t always know how to tap into that. So that that started kind of years ago in my workforce development. And then when we moved here, I knew I didn’t want to do private practice. I wanted to do something different. And the oxygen started five years ago.

Stone Payton: [00:06:43] So where do where does one start if they want to impact change, shift, reform, whatever the word is, whatever the verb is, the culture, it just seems like this. This this mushy, nebulous thing that as as a as a small business owner, where do I even start?

Michelle Fox: [00:06:59] That’s that’s really important because you have to be willing. It starts with asking the question you have. You have so many business owners and C-suite people who don’t even ask the question where they don’t even want to look at it. They do analytics on every other aspect of their business. But the one they don’t do, and it’s the one that has the most drive is their human capital. They’re not asking the questions to their human capital, to the people who are working and driving the ship of their business. So you have to be willing to just say, Hey, I should probably look at this. Let’s ask how are you happy? But I mean, you’re not going to ask that question, are you happy? But there’s ways to to do assessments of the people who work for you. And the crazy thing is is you’ll hear leadership push back and they’re like, Well, they’re not going to they’re going to be afraid to answer. They don’t. They don’t trust HR or they don’t trust these things. And actually, studies show us that when you ask, all of a sudden they’re like, Oh, you, I’m important enough that you want. You want my opinion and they do share.

Stone Payton: [00:08:06] Oh, so they’re just that’s novel, right? Because they don’t get they’re not accustomed to being asked.

Michelle Fox: [00:08:12] Yeah, I mean, if somebody ask you your opinion about something, it instantly in your brain, we actually see it on brain scans. Your brain will light up because you’re like, what? Yeah, yeah. Every human wants to be valued, and so when we ask for an opinion, even if it’s not used, even if we don’t have a great strong opinion, we feel like we’re valued. So yeah.

Stone Payton: [00:08:35] So when you initially walk into the boardroom or in a corporate environment, do you find most execs kind of embracing the idea of putting some attention and some rigor and some discipline to to these topics? Or do you meet with a little resistance, typically early on?

Michelle Fox: [00:08:51] Well, that that is our challenge at oxygen. So if I’m already if, if, if I’m in, there’s no resistance because in order for oxygen to work, we have to have the buy in of the leadership. It can’t be. It’s the decision makers who bring oxygen in. It’s not air can open the door, but we really have to sit down with the owners, the CEOs, the leadership and when I can get with them and help them understand, Hey, look, here’s what we’re going to do diagnostically. But you can’t have just data and no one to help you do something with the data data. Reigns supreme, but it’s not worthwhile if you can’t have somebody help you do something about the data. You know, so if somebody goes to the E.R. with possible heart attack, they’re going to do an EKG on them, sure, you can run all the tests you want and it’s like, Hey, yeah, there’s a heart attack, come in. All right, there you go. Go home. You got to. Have you got to have like the professional come in and be like, OK, here’s what we’re going to do about it. So if I’m in or if oxygens in, then then we’ve got the buy in. But we it’s really hard getting the buy in for leadership that’s resistant to because I find that especially smaller businesses that are male run, they’re not real interested in a female coming in and saying, Hey, look, you’re it’s emotional. You know, they think it’s emotion driven or we get that people think we’re like doing crystals and woo woo stuff. And we’re like, No, there’s there’s data here. This is real science based stuff that we’re doing.

Stone Payton: [00:10:28] So, yeah, so you touched on fitness a little while ago when you were describing a kind of a fad in the nineties or what is there, though such a thing as some emotional and relational fitness? And if so, you know, what kind of part does that play in this culture we’re talking about?

Michelle Fox: [00:10:49] So we created I think we coined the term emotional and relational fitness because it

Stone Payton: [00:10:55] Almost starts slinging around everywhere I go. I say, Well, folks will say,

Michelle Fox: [00:11:01] Yeah, I made. The funny thing is is I made these badges for us to go to like trade shows and different things, networking events, and we couldn’t fit emotional and relational fitness on the nail. Yeah. Well, they they give you like 20 characters. We far exceeded it. So I put thinking, Oh, this is fantastic because you want people to ask you questions. So I put E and R fitness under our name and found and those are going in the trash because people are all they saw was fitness. And so they think we’re fitness growers and it’s it’s kind of embarrassing to be like, Nope, nope. Nope, nope, nope. If I’m running, something’s chasing me. So no, we are not into physical fitness, but emotional and relational fitness where we do have kind of a mission to explain that to people. My belief in this business, I’ve been doing an element of helping people better understand themselves and how other people understand them for a long time. And what I have found when I did private practice, I could have 40 clients in a month and there were roughly the same issues among those really.

Stone Payton: [00:12:15] You see these patterns?

Michelle Fox: [00:12:16] Yeah, it looks different. You know, it’s like cake is cake, but you have chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, you know, you have all the things. So I found that, gosh, if we can really hone this down to two areas of people’s lives, their emotional state and how they are relating to their spouse, to their children, their aging parents, their best friend, their colleagues. When we find that we have satisfaction in those areas, then in that so that’s a relational fitness, then we find that we have an emotional satisfaction. And so the two play off of each other. And so then it’s like, Well, when people go to work, we’re way past my parents’ generation that when they went to work, they were expected to leave it all at the door. Yeah, when you run that badge through at AT&T or wherever they worked, you don’t bring in the fact that your teenage son is being. Difficult, right? You don’t talk about the fact that you’re having to deal with your aging parents. You don’t do not even think about bringing the baggage of maybe you and your spouse or fighting or on the edge of divorce. Don’t bring that to work. You come to work, you work and then you go deal. We’re way past that. Yeah. And also it didn’t work because people don’t do that. We’re not robots. So what it does is when we come to work, if the leadership, if the work environment says, Hey, look, we care about what’s going on with you, we have resources, we have this program, we’re doing these things that are there for you. Boy, that person says, Gosh, I want to make sure I’m giving the best of me to my work when I’m here. I mean, the studies and statistics just prove it over and over again that it’s vital to an organization’s health if they’re paying attention to what a person is, their emotional and relational fitness.

Stone Payton: [00:14:10] Now is this related to the I think the label for this is IQ or emotional quotient. I’ve read a few books on it. I’ve had a few guests over the years come in and talk about it. Is what you’re talking about now related to that?

Michelle Fox: [00:14:26] It’s one aspect, one aspect of it. It’s one aspect of so you’re talking about emotional, emotional intelligence, emotional intelligence.

Stone Payton: [00:14:36] So there’s an echo of something.

Michelle Fox: [00:14:37] Q Is emotional intelligence OK? And so yes, that is one aspect of it. There’s trainings on it, I think, to the point that people are like they role, do the AI role like, really, we’re going to do another IQ thing and we do find that it’s incredibly important and valuable. But what we’re seeing so now the new term you and I were talking about this beforehand is executive skills. Oh yeah, right? They want to, you know, we have to change it. When we overuse a label, we have to have to re label it so that people will pay attention for a little bit. And so that is one aspect of emotional fitness is, you know, you want to build that. What we’re finding more the trend is, though, is the younger workforce. So. I don’t know if I should use company names, but you take a factory. There’s one here in Woodstock and they are pulling right out of high school. They’re pulling high schoolers out that want to just go right to work. But they’re saying, Hey, Michelle, can you come do some executive skills training for these guys because they don’t know that they’re supposed to not look at their phone all day. They don’t know that they’re supposed to make eye contact when they’re, you know, basic things. So we’re finding executive skills more on the younger labor force. Not that when we do it for your really your C-suite and your management, it would be probably executive leadership. Five point two. You know, they’ve been through a lot of the things that, you know, self-awareness, motivation, self-regulation, empathy, social skills. That’s all.

Stone Payton: [00:16:11] Are you rattled off a lot right there?

Michelle Fox: [00:16:13] Those are all. That’s a lot. Sorry. Those are the aspects of what makeup executive skills or emotional intelligence. So they’ve been through a lot of that. So then we take them through. This is what we’re doing on their retreats or their conferences where we would do a deep dove. So it’s it’s an aspect of emotional fitness at work.

Stone Payton: [00:16:32] Well, I got to tell you one of the reasons I ask. I have two daughters, and of course, they’re both practically perfect in every way. It’s amazing to me, though, how you can raise two people in the same household and and the differences. But my youngest in particular, I, she has this executive skills IQ, whatever she’s born.

Michelle Fox: [00:16:52] It’s always the second born

Stone Payton: [00:16:54] Well beyond her years. Yeah, I definitely beyond me. She has a level of emotional maturity or empathy or that is just fascinates me, and I’d love to be able to bottle that. Yeah, and let all of our studio partners have it, you know, and share it with our clients. And so some of us, as my dad would say, born in you,

Michelle Fox: [00:17:16] It’s born in. Yet you’re right. Second, born children, birth order is really important. I find it very fascinating, but I love for people to understand about emotional intelligence is, you know, stone. Unfortunately, when it comes to our IQ, what we get is what we get. You cannot. You can’t make it bigger. You can’t. Fortunately, even though as a mom, sometimes I feel like it does somehow go lower, but you get what you get with emotional intelligence. We actually can grow it and we can change it. So even with first borns? No, I’m just kidding. I’m a second born.

Stone Payton: [00:17:54] I’m a firstborn.

Michelle Fox: [00:17:56] Yeah. So even with no matter what, we can actually build the emotional intelligence skills into people. If if they’re willing to learn just like any other thing, we can build it.

Stone Payton: [00:18:07] Well, that leads me to my my next question. I guess it’s a broader version of the same question can people organizations culture? I mean, can they really change? And this question is coming from someone, by the way, who used to work in the change management consulting arena. And I’m still genuinely asking the question Can they really change?

Michelle Fox: [00:18:31] Well, can I? I’ll answer that. Can I turn that I really love to hear what you think? Can’t do you think they can?

Stone Payton: [00:18:39] I have seen them change the way they go to market. I have seen them change the way they communicate and interact. They with the way the executive team communicates and interacts with the with the rank and file and back to your Miami, Kentucky example. One of the things that I saw that continues to fascinate me to this day because there was a lot in the name merger and acquisition work. And of course, there’s in our experience, I don’t care what the paperwork says. It was never a merger. It was always an acquisition. It was always a cultural acquisition, right? One usually ate the other. But one of the things that we did find is the change went so much smoother, such a much lower burn rate and was much more effective on the other side of things, if it. And this is a silly example, this isn’t real. If it was a health care company and a surfboard company like two completely different kinds of companies, if they came together, they seem to sort of get the benefit of both man. When you put two health care companies together or two surfboard crazy, it was like, you know, the clash of the Titans. That was now I wasn’t. I did a little design and delivery were mostly I was on the sales and marketing side of that world, but I was on the periphery of watching some of that work get executed. And they didn’t change as much in as fast as I had hoped for them. Right?

Michelle Fox: [00:20:07] Yeah, yeah. Change is slow. I mean, we’re I like to tell people that it’s turning the we’re we’re trying to turn the Titanic now. Also, I want to be really careful. I don’t just work with companies who feel like they’re struggling. I don’t. You know, it’s kind of the dentist the dentist would love for there to be people who most of their docket, to be people who are coming in for the two times a year checkup. Right, right, right. Not all the people who are like, Hey, I have a toothache. Oh, root canal. I don’t. We don’t work with just the root canal companies who there’s pain points. We really want to work with people. I was sharing this recently. There’s a lot of CEOs who are wishing they had brought fox digit end this time last year because they didn’t see the resignation coming. So it’s like pay attention before you get to the iceberg, let’s turn it around. So turning around, you know, it depends on the size of the company, but turning it around doesn’t happen on a dime. Yeah. But oftentimes you you can. We can initiate some changes and some different way of doing things pretty quickly. And it’s amazing. It has a ripple effect.

Stone Payton: [00:21:19] So there are some some key levers that you can pull and maybe different levers for different clients, right? Absolutely. Although I’m sure you see some patterns. Ok, let’s talk about this great resignation, this this challenge of retention, which has been with us forever. But oh my gosh, is it magnified now for most, right?

Michelle Fox: [00:21:35] Mm hmm. It really has that a little bit. Yes. So what I find fascinating is that most people buy into the myth that it’s all about pay. And that’s all we’re hearing when it comes to the news or your, you know, your when you pull up your phone and reading articles, it’s about pay and who’s paying what. And my kids are my kids are 15, 13, nine and they’re talking about it. Who’s paying this? And it really is kind of hard not to keep repeating myself, but it’s a myth that it’s about pay. It really isn’t. When the studies are coming out now, the statistics are coming out now that pay is actually the lowest reason for people to resign. Yes, the reason that people are really leaving their jobs is because of value. They don’t see their value in a company. And also the pandemic. What the pandemic did is it created a stress bubble for everybody, everybody across any industry. And not only when I say stress bubble, I mean, it’s not usually we’re we. Up until this point, we’ve been pretty used to stress being one to two areas at a time. You know, so what I mean by that is now with the pandemic in the way things happened, we have stress about our job. We have stress with our relationships because I’m working at home with my husband or, you know, my husband’s now working at home. My children are home from school.

Michelle Fox: [00:23:10] There’s finances because am I going to have my job? We aren’t going on vacation. So do we save that? You know, there’s these there stress from almost every aspect of our parents, our aging parents. That’s a big one. Are they going to be OK or are they going to be? Well, we can’t leave. We can’t travel. We can’t run away. So there’s we’ve created it’s created a stress bubble where it’s coming from so many different areas of our life, all at one time. And so what that has caused is for people to really examine the one thing they can really change. I mean, you can change spouses, but we wouldn’t recommend that you can’t change your children. You can’t get up and just go anywhere. The one area where people could change is their job and how they were treated. Was I valued in this job? Do they value the fact that I’m trying to teach my child I’m having to be kind of a teacher at home this year while the you know where this is coming from? Are they listening to me or are they listening to our team? If not, I can probably go somewhere else and find something new or different, or I just need a change. So what it’s done is it’s brought the stress level to the top. And that’s what we have found based on statistics why people are resigning, not feeling valued in their job.

Stone Payton: [00:24:33] So and going about a genuinely establishing value and maybe as important communicating value in the job and how much we value you. That’s a that’s a that’s a different, new and different conversation that a lot of execs, even small business owners like me. I mean, we’re not good at that yet, right?

Michelle Fox: [00:24:53] No, I don’t think we are. I think we’re seeing it among some of the younger, I’d say, 40, 45 and below. There are more. They lean more into that. The older it’s a little harder to lean into. Oh, we’re supposed to ask people about their feelings, you know, or how they’re stressing that doesn’t come natural one. It doesn’t come natural to one gender.

Stone Payton: [00:25:18] Right, right. No. No, it doesn’t come natural to me. No. As a coach consultant, if I were your client and you told me, go do that, then I would make every effort to do that, but it would not occur to me.

Michelle Fox: [00:25:29] Naturally, it doesn’t come natural

Stone Payton: [00:25:31] And I might do it for a little while. And then you’d have to kind of help me stay accountable because I would not. I would always go toward, Hey, Karen, out in Phenix, here’s a new type of client and how we were able to build that relationship and bring that client. It’s a very kind of black and white, and I feel like I’m really helping Karen, and I guess I am. But maybe I should also ask her about Ivan and how’s Ivan doing, you know? That’s right. That’s her son.

Michelle Fox: [00:25:56] Yeah. So, you know, I have I had a client of mine that I work one on one. So that’s another thing that Foxconn does is we do one on one executive coaching and do something. Yes. So I had a business owner and very much like you, he’s an engineer and engineers are some of our favorite because they’re like, Wow, we really don’t know how to do this. And that’s that’s new for them. Engineers feel like they know how to do a lot of things, sure, but emotions and feelings and getting in there, that’s not one. And he said to me, Hey, I’ve got this guy who I might need you to talk to. He had enough wherewithal to say there’s something going on, and he’s really a good

Stone Payton: [00:26:37] Worker, doesn’t want to lose him, don’t

Michelle Fox: [00:26:38] Want to lose him. But if something doesn’t change, I’m going to have to let him go because there’s some choices and decisions happening. Sure. So he set me up with that guy and I started seeing him one on one, and the turnaround in him was phenomenal. In fact, I’ve asked him, I’m like, Can I make you a poster child? Because it was really phenomenal what happened in this guy’s life? But more to the point was that his boss, he didn’t have what it. He didn’t have it, but he he knew enough to reach out to to me to say, Can you do it? And I feel like, you know, that’s we need more leadership like that.

Stone Payton: [00:27:14] Ok, so let’s talk about process a little bit and I’ll just use the business. I know Business RadioX. We have a network of community studios like this. They try to support and celebrate business and and we have a business model up under all of this. So we so we so we bring you on and we and maybe Lee and I, that’s my business partner. Maybe we’re self-aware enough to know that we’re probably the problem. But but we we feel like we definitely want to get better at this and we want to make it available to our studio partners to to. What would that process do you? Do you sit down and talk with us together individually? I’m kind of trying to get a feel for at least. Early, early stages of your of like an engagement process.

Michelle Fox: [00:27:58] Yeah, we sit down and we talk or we Skype or, you know, because we serve people all over the country or not. Skype does e-mail Skype anymore.

Stone Payton: [00:28:06] Sorry, Skype, we zoom.

Michelle Fox: [00:28:08] Yeah, I was going to say we zoom. We do the Google. Do you know we’ll sit down and we will try to do face to face. I really value face to face and have been doing face to face even before the pandemic, the remotely. So we we will sit down and just talk just like, you know, I hate to say this because it might scare people away, but it’s basically a really big version of counseling or therapy. You know, when you go sit down and you know, it’s a good one, they’re just going to find out where’s the pain point? Where’s the challenge or are you just here? Because you’re you’re good. You go to the dentist twice a year. You want to do maintenance, you want to make sure you’re staying where you want to. Hey, things are actually going really good. I feel like my workers really love it here. But again, a lot of CEOs thought that last year. So, you know, people who are preemptive, we start the conversation and then what we do is we find out where we need to be looking. You know what closets? What rugs do we need to look under and in kind of in your life or not, really your personal life, but what’s going on in the business, right? So we start that conversation and then that’s where we start, and then we pull in some diagnostic tools to get some data right and then we start making, you know, assessments and and from there we put in some programs or we tweak some things or

Stone Payton: [00:29:31] That’s where it goes. So let’s talk a little bit. And I recognize, or at least I suspect, that these are tools available to you, and you may not probably don’t use them all in every situation you sort of and choose the situation dictates what resources you bring to bear. But just to kind of get would it be OK if we get like an overview of some of the tools and resources like there? Might there be a training? Might there be some sort of workshop? Might there be some self-paced stuff that we do? Might there be some regular that kind of just to kind of give us a bit of a picture?

Michelle Fox: [00:30:05] Yeah, sure. So you kind of used several of the ones that we do, but yeah, we will do leadership development. We love to help people design. Some companies are getting back into it. It was real big before the pandemic, where they did retreats corporate retreats for their leadership. Ok. We really do enjoy working, starting from the top because I’m a big believer that change starts from the top and trickles down. And so I really, if leadership is willing, I really like to kind of dove in with them. And then there’s buy in. Going back to my 1990s, you know, weight room and exercise room, the reason those started is because CEOs were being told, You got to get healthy, you got to put some time on the treadmill. They were the ones that brought that in. It wasn’t a worker who came in. It was like, Hey, can we have a weight room? That’s not how that happened. It trickled down from CEOs buying into the health fitness thing that we have. So we like to do leadership development. We do training courses, I do seminars a lot of public speaking and that kind of stuff. I will do lunch and learns I have a couple of people on my staff that we’ll do a lunch and learn where we just kind of get started with whoever’s interested in this. We also, with just through oxygen, we have training courses where they can do some self-guided stuff. We do groups. So there’s a lot of different tools that we use. I would say those are more things we offer versus tools. The tools are so varied, and that’s one of the things I’m probably most proud of in what we do at Fox. Again in the work is, you know, I just heard this example recently. You’re not going to just come take a risk assessment and us figure out what your risk personality is and how that works at work, how that fits in. It’s way more than that. We got to figure out, you know, if you go to the E.R. and they all have the same three tools, you’re going to probably be worried.

Stone Payton: [00:32:06] Right, exactly.

Michelle Fox: [00:32:07] So you want you want to know that whoever you’re working with, they’ve got several things in their bag and they’ve got the experience to apply those tools.

Stone Payton: [00:32:16] I mean, I think everything you’re saying makes perfect sense to me, particularly the idea that you have to have the the sponsorship, you have to have the commitment from those senior level execs for this thing, too. I had a mentor for many years. His name was Steve Brown, and he would talk about getting the senior level execs in the mid-level managers involved in the training process. And he said, if you don’t, they’ll untrained them quicker and you can train them. That’s exactly right.

Michelle Fox: [00:32:43] It is absolutely true that that that’s spot on.

Stone Payton: [00:32:47] So it makes perfect sense to me. And as a small business person out there marketing our services, I I can envision it being a little bit of a challenge, just getting to have this kind of conversation with those execs that you can help. So my question is, and I ask this of almost all of my guests, how does the whole sales and marketing thing work for a person like you do? Are you at a point now where you get the where could you do the good work? And I mean, nothing sells like doing good work, right? Right. That’s right. Is it? Is it? I just get the sense. It must be a very relationship oriented kind of exchange, not the kind of thing where you send them a postcard or pick up the phone and say, Hey, can I come? I don’t know how to. How do you market this kind of thing and get it? Get those conversations?

Michelle Fox: [00:33:35] Well, I can tell you, we’ve tried it all we have tried, but you are right, and I’ve probably learned more in the last year and a half how relationally driven this work that we’re doing has to be right. Because, I mean, I’m probably the face of oxygen and you know, you kind of you’re going to do business with people you like. That’s right. And you believe. And so my business partner who is behind you well, is laughing because she knows I’m not a sales person. I’m not going to try to sell people and stuff. But I do get pretty passionate about this because I know that it impacts people’s lives for the better, not just their work life, their home life. Things get turned around when you apply this kind of work. And so I get pretty passionate about that. And so in order to do that, I’ve got to be pretty relational, you know, one to one having those lunches, doing coffees, talking with them the hard. Part is just getting, you know, the guy who owns the manufacturing plant to go have lunch with me because I think whoever he’s heard about me from, he thinks I’m selling crystals. And, you know, funny water and I want to come in and do yoga classes. And that’s not.

Stone Payton: [00:34:50] Well, I’ll tell you what, if you will have lunch with her, I’m telling you it is worth your while. I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I love your energy. I love your enthusiasm. You have these executive skills, whatever you want to call it, off the chart, which makes for great programing for us, but just a delightful way to spend a Friday morning for me. But even someone with your passion, even someone with your energy running a business, you’ve got to run out of steam once in a while, you’ve got to run out of gas and need to recharge. And so I’m curious. And here again, I asked most of my guests this question. When that begins to happen and where do you go for inspiration to try to recharge? And I don’t know if it’s a place or if it’s books or but how do you kind of. Recharge, get and get inspired.

Michelle Fox: [00:35:43] For me, it’s weekends, it’s called the weekend.

Stone Payton: [00:35:46] Ok, so you can’t book Michelle on Saturday. Forget about that. She’s got to say

Michelle Fox: [00:35:50] That

Stone Payton: [00:35:52] You pay me enough money. I’ll come in the Saturday.

Michelle Fox: [00:35:55] I’ll make Wednesday, Saturday. Yeah, for me, it’s weekends and for my husband. We have four kids and we’re involved in what they do. That’s a whole different bag of energy there. Yeah. And so for us, we put people, I do a whole thing on inner circle. And so for me, having a healthy inner circle, the people that I spend time with the most time with because I’m an extrovert and in energy comes from being with people and being able to just be who I am. My husband will tell you because he it’s the way we started dating. You need to think I’m funny. Like, funny is my thing. So I use all my friends to be stand up and I’m like, They give me energy because they pretend to laugh at me. And so being with people, you know, our inner circle, people doing baseball with our kids, spending time with my husband. And frankly, I like to do a little bit of Netflix and Hulu.

Stone Payton: [00:36:56] Me too.

Michelle Fox: [00:36:57] So that would be how I recharge.

Stone Payton: [00:37:00] So before we wrap it in a moment, I want to make sure that we let our listeners know how they can get in touch with you, have a conversation with you or that coffee or somebody on your team. But before we, we do that. The other thing I wanted to ask you about is. What can Stone do? What can his business partner really do? What if someone’s listening to this today or six months from now? First of all, my advice is reach out and have a conversation with Michelle. But between then and when they have that cup of coffee, are there? Are there just a couple little things that we can look out for or begin to ask ourselves about, or some little action we can take to just get a just move the needle a little bit, get a little bit better in this area,

Michelle Fox: [00:37:46] In the area of

Stone Payton: [00:37:48] Of of helping our culture and helping helping our people be more better at relating and being better with this emotional intelligence and and just something that helps them, that will help me. In my case, I keep using Karen as an example because I just think the world of her. But I mean, I wish I was doing more for Karen out in Phenix, right? Right. Like this? Is it as simple as, you know, pick up the phone and tell her how much I appreciate her and asking her how her life is going?

Michelle Fox: [00:38:24] I mean, yeah, I think if we want to move the needle a little bit and we want to become more aware of what’s around us, we have to be willing to ask the questions. So one of the. So I like to say clarity. We need clarity at various times in our life because we lose it, we lose. We think we’re doing it. But then when we we sit down, we’re like, Oh, wait, that’s not what I’m about. And when I say that, there’s two questions you can ask for clarity How do I see myself and how do I think other people see me?

Stone Payton: [00:38:58] Mm-hmm. And I don’t know if I want that, I don’t know if I want to answer that last one. Well, well, it’s important.

Michelle Fox: [00:39:04] It is important and it’s not going around. You’re not going to go ask somebody that you wouldn’t ask advice from. You’re going to ask your inner circle. Somebody who’s important your spouse. Yeah, or one of your favorite people. You’re going to say, Hey, this is how I see myself. Here’s here’s three strong things I think that I bring to the table in any given circumstance or situation. Here’s where maybe I think I have challenges, right? You know, how do you think person? My favorite person? How do you think people see me? Am I on there and be willing to ask? That is is like it’s vulnerable. It’s hard. Yeah.

Stone Payton: [00:39:44] And and then maybe not be trying not to be defensive if you get the answer.

Michelle Fox: [00:39:48] Don’t ask a question. And if you’re not ready for answers. So if you’re not ready, don’t go ask. And so that’s my first part. But the second part is I run this through everybody. And no matter where you are, if you’re at work, you’re at home, you’re in marriage crisis, you’re in kid crisis. Whatever it is, we’re in two states of being always one or the other. And one is we are feeling captive or we’re we’re free. And when I say captive is it’s any thought, feeling or action that is is binding you down. So you’re frustrated, you’re angry. That’s a captive thing. And so when we’re we’re saying, where am I right now, when I’m in a state of freedom, I think I’ve got satisfaction. I’m not a big fan of workplace balance balance.

Stone Payton: [00:40:41] Well, the balance in my experience is a little bit of a myth. Maybe it is

Michelle Fox: [00:40:45] A myth, because if you’ve ever tried to balance on anything, how long can you actually do it? Not very long. Right. Even the gymnasts they still fall off balance is a myth. I love that you just said that we’ll start using that. Can you write that down? Hey, that’s

Stone Payton: [00:40:58] Free of charge. Yeah, there you go.

Michelle Fox: [00:41:00] But I love satisfaction. We can always find satisfaction. So, you know, the Work-Life Balance thing is, is a myth because you really can’t balance that. Sometimes work is going to be two weeks of utter nonsense. But then we can sometimes come back and say, OK, but then I get four weeks of really getting to be at baseball or I get to go on vacation that we can bring satisfaction because sometimes we understand we’re not going to always be able to balance it. But we know that we can satisfy ourselves with what it is that we need and the people around us. So satisfaction is a real good indicator. If I’m not feeling satisfied in something right, it’s January. What are most people not feeling satisfied in right now? Their waistband? Right? So that’s an easy one for everybody to go to and change because it’s it’s outside, it’s physical. We put our clothes on every day. And so if you’re not feeling satisfied, everybody gets this concept. They’re like, Well, what do I need to do? I don’t really like what I need to do, like eat less and I don’t really want to go run and I don’t want to do go to the gym, but I know what I need to do. And so just starting to work on what it is is going to then bring satisfaction, right? Not not just the end results. Just starting the process starts to bring satisfaction, and I don’t feel captive anymore. I’m in freedom even though my waistband hasn’t shrunk, even though I’m not, I’m doing it. So now I’m in a state of freedom. But before I get started, I’m held captive by it because I’m thinking about it. When I fall asleep at night, I’m thinking about it when I’m sitting in front of the TV.

Stone Payton: [00:42:39] Yes, right. It bleeds into other places where you can’t be your best and give it your attention

Michelle Fox: [00:42:43] Or you’re held captive by it. So feelings, so thoughts, feelings and actions that are negative and that are holding us in place. That’s a place of being captive versus a place of freedom. And so you said, what’s one thing? Where can people start, right? You got to start there? Am I feeling more captive most of the time? Or do I feel like I’m in a state of freedom, which is therefore I’m pretty satisfied with all the different areas of my, of my life and my being?

Stone Payton: [00:43:10] I’m so glad I asked. It took me a minute to try to get that question out, and you help me ask the right question, but I am really glad that I asked because I think that’s good, solid, practical, actionable counsel that our listeners can move on immediately. Yeah, and that I can move on. I’m so glad. Glad I asked. It has been an absolute delight having you in the studio today. And let’s do before we wrap, let’s make sure we leave our listeners with some points of contact, whatever you feel like is appropriate. Linkedin email website. Whatever is the best way for them to connect with with you, OK?

Michelle Fox: [00:43:46] The best way to contact us is through our website.

Stone Payton: [00:43:52] I’m sorry. Just so you know, those of you are in the studio. She’s looking at her business partner getting like the nut. Yes, that would be the best one.

Michelle Fox: [00:43:59] Ok, where we want to send them to is we want to send them to fox and consulting. Ok. That’s just the easy part. Oxygen comes for everybody asks that where does that come from? Well, my last name is Fox and we want to breathe fresh air into people in their relationships. I love oxygen, so it’s spelled just like that. Oxygen consultant oxygen with an F. OK consulting. They can reach out to us. There is probably the best, quickest way to get us. I’m not

Stone Payton: [00:44:26] Sure

Michelle Fox: [00:44:28] My email. I’m like, Do I get my phone number? No, we’re not going to give. This is nationwide. My my phone number will be on bathroom stalls for fresh air call.

Stone Payton: [00:44:44] Call this number.

Michelle Fox: [00:44:46] We will give you more info at. They can email info at Michelle Ralphs or USC Foxconn as well.

Stone Payton: [00:44:56] Fantastic. Well, thanks again for coming in the.

Michelle Fox: [00:44:59] It’s been so fun. Thank you for having me.

Stone Payton: [00:45:01] You are absolutely welcome. I’ve enjoyed every minute of it. All right. Michelle Fox, founder and CEO with Foxton Consulting. Go back. Listen to this. This conversation more than once, there’s just some real pearls and gems in there. Reach out and have a conversation with them. I guarantee you it will be an absolute delight. All right, this is Stone Payton for our guest today, Michelle Fox with Fox Consulting and everyone here at the Business RadioX family say we’ll see you next time on workplace wisdom.

Irina Alexander With Academy Of MotivAction

January 28, 2022 by Jacob Lapera

Coach The Coach

Irina Alexander With Academy Of MotivAction

00:00 /

Meet Irina Alexander, the founder of Academy of MotivAction™. It is Neuro-Science based MotivAction Method™ Training for Entrepreneurs and Thought Leaders, using tools and techniques from behavior research and science to create hugely successful life and businesses.

Her journey for the last 20 years has been a worldwide quest to understand what makes a great entrepreneur and person so successful. Through running her own businesses, learning from many amazing mentors, she has been blessed with many experiences, challenges, and lessons.

She is the owner of multiple businesses, she got her MBA at the age of 21. She is Certified Business Coach, Certified Master Coach and Trainer of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), Quantum Time Line and Hypnosis.

In 2018, after only 2 years, she reached the top 1.6% of all women-owned businesses in the USA, by working on a business, and not in her business. She knows, all the struggles that businesses have are usually come down to 3 things: Time, People, and Money. “The only thing holding you back from the business of your dreams is you, and more specifically, your beliefs, your habits, your mindset, and your skillset.”

Connect with Irina on Facebook and LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

About MotivAction
Productivity hack for entrepreneurs

This transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:02] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Coach the Coach radio brought to you by the Business RadioX Ambassador Program, the no cost business development strategy for coaches who want to spend more time serving local business clients and less time selling them. Go to brxambassador.com To learn more. Now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:33] Lee Kantor here, another episode of Coach the Coach Radio, and this is going to be a fun one today on the show, we have Irina Alexander with mode of action. She is with the Academy of Motive Action. Welcome, Irina.

Irina Alexander: [00:00:47] Hello, thank you for having me.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:49] Well, I’m excited to learn about mode of action. Tell us a little bit about it.

Irina Alexander: [00:00:55] My reaction is the Academy of Neuroscience tools and techniques that help people to reprogram their mindset, especially specializing, working with business owners.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:12] Now I am assuming and correct me if I’m wrong, it’s a combination of motivation and taking action.

Irina Alexander: [00:01:20] Absolutely. You’re 100 percent correct. What happens is a lot of times people go to different events or taking courses, and they become extremely motivated. However, what they are lacking is actually taking action. Massive inspired action and that’s why it was created is not only theory, it’s actually practical tools that you can implement right now to get the results you want.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:48] Now, why do you think it is in human behavior that it’s easy for them to get fired up and rah rah? And let’s go, you know, take the hill. But it’s hard for them to take that first baby step to begin.

Irina Alexander: [00:02:05] There are probably few reasons human beings are very interesting creatures, and we tend to overthink a lot of times and that overthinking and trying to make everything perfect creates a certain way of procrastination, and the longer you think, the more fear you have towards taking action. And I think that’s one of the things why people not taking action is actually being afraid. They have certain beliefs and so on goes away the way it is, the less motivation they have.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:41] Now, is it something that it’s great if this idea is in my head, but as soon as I bring it into the real world now I’m going to be judged of, Hey, this might fail, I might not be as good as I think I am. There’s a lot of negative things that may happen and and people kind of dwell on that instead of imagine all the possibilities that could happen and all the good things that might happen.

Irina Alexander: [00:03:08] Yes, so most of the people they have unfortunately broken mindset, they focus on what’s not working or what’s might go wrong, and therefore they actually have a lack of communication. So how to communicate those things, how to make them work. And yeah, it’s definitely a challenge for a lot of people what they will say. There is some limited beliefs, limited decisions. Perfectionism is one of them making everything perfect. And I love to give an example of a lot of us have Apple phones, write iPhones, and that’s the least, you know, perfect phone, because what they do is they give us updates every so often. So they launched on Perfect now perfect product, and then they just make it better and better every time. Nobody cares about that. However, when people trying to launch their product or service, they’re trying to make everything perfect and what others will think, or what if it will not work and they just have their focus instead of what they want. They focus in on everything that might go wrong.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:26] Now I find it interesting that humans a lot of time. Don’t give them self and enough grace, and they’ll give grace to other people or people they know they’ll have an excuse for them, but for themselves, they don’t give themselves much grace like they hold themselves almost to a higher standard.

Irina Alexander: [00:04:48] And that is definitely true. Maybe because we we were raised that way, maybe because we were not taught to be kind to ourselves. There’s always that race of being more having more and nothing is wrong with that, wanting more. However, appreciating what you have and living in the moment versus always, you know, running towards something and not appreciating things you have is might be a challenge in life.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:26] Now what’s your back story? How did you get involved in this kind of work?

Irina Alexander: [00:05:31] I move to the United States over 12 years ago and I opened my business. In two years, I reached top one point six percent of all women owned businesses. And with that kind of success came right down failure like I was burned out. And what I realized that, you know, no money, worse, your mental health and stability. And I got into figuring out like, why is it happening to me? I had that thinking that everything is against me. Like, why? Why are employees not doing what I’m telling them to do? So I got into researching what’s out there and what I realized that the biggest constraint in business is actually me myself. My beliefs set my mind set. And from exiting my business, I decided to help others to be successful and to. Avoid learning on my mistakes to avoid those pitfalls of being out and being in charge of your life and business and not being a victim of circumstances.

Lee Kantor: [00:06:56] Now what were some of the clues or breadcrumbs that you found that helped you realize that, hey, I might be onto something here?

Irina Alexander: [00:07:06] Oh, honestly, when you do the change work, when you are changing your mindset and people around me kind of saying like, Hey, you’re a different person. Like, you know, a lot of people will have a quit quit already in like, how are you so strong and how you keep pushing forward? So for me, it was the feedback from my family and friends who kind of pointed it out that, hey, you’re actually changing and you are happier, you’re more calm, you’re not work. Twenty four seven, you can finally hang out with us. So the feedback from outside world was kind of my my way of realizing that I am. I am actually changing. I am sleeping at night. I’m not worried. Twenty four seven anymore.

Lee Kantor: [00:08:07] Now do you find that folks, as they evolve in their business kind of journey, they get to a point where the work is important, but that legacy is more important.

Irina Alexander: [00:08:21] If you know. Unfortunately not. And I wish more people would have that bigger picture and thinking about leaving a legacy. But a lot of people went in and started their business because they tired to work for somebody else. They saw that they can do better. They are going to be their own boss. And what? They didn’t realize that they created another job for them. They probably making less money and they are working more and they have more headache and they just in a day to day activity and operations, and they are not thinking about future anymore. So when I come and start working with the businesses, that’s where we focus, like we are starting with the end in mind. What are you here for? What what is not only about product, the service, but how overall you’re helping others with your service and product? And what’s the end goal and always, you know, what’s the honeyeater goal? Like, do you want to pass it to your kids or you want to sell it and things like that

Lee Kantor: [00:09:37] Now in order to get an answer that’s close closer to the truth. It takes a lot of trust between you both. How do you kind of create that environment where there is trust, where the person is going to tell you the truth? Because a lot of times if you ask me, Oh, what’s my goal? Oh, to make money, you know, like, it’s going to be kind of a superficial answer. It’s not going to be kind of the the truth behind the answer.

Irina Alexander: [00:10:05] You know, by working with people, you learn to read people and there are tools and techniques through neuro linguistic where you establish rapport and asking the right questions, really digging down and being honest, like, Hey, is it the real answer or is it just you’re saying that because you don’t want to get to relax? So overall, just establishing good rapport, and it’s a process as we work together for a few weeks or a month. The more we get to know each other, the more people open up. So it’s not like immediately you start with like, Hey, where you want to be in 100 years. For some people, it’s important to know why you’re asking certain questions. So in explaining to them why it’s important to know sharing my own story and saying, Hey, I’m not just a coach who thinks I know everything because I know I don’t. And I’ve been where you’ve been. I’ve been in that rollercoaster with employees, profit loss equipment and so on. And just relating to them.

Lee Kantor: [00:11:22] Now, has there been a time you mentioned, you know, kind of the ups and downs of your of your entrepreneurial journey? Has has there been a time when you attempted something and that you’ve gotten an outcome that maybe wasn’t what you expected, but it was wonderful nevertheless?

Irina Alexander: [00:11:44] Um, you know. The first thing that comes to mind is networking, right? So in order for me to grow my business, I decided to do network. It was pre-COVID and we have in the city where I live, you probably could network two to four times a day. So I took all of my free time or made time to go to those networking events. And honestly, that was the last thing I wanted to do, which means it was exactly what I needed to do meet people, introduce myself, work through my own fears in certain way. And what I realized that not only helped to grow business might not be as fast as I wanted to, but I made so many great connections. I made so many friends that something that I didn’t think would happen. I really built genuine connections with people that are less like turn into a lifetime friendship. So that’s something that was not easy. Something that I didn’t go for. I was there simply to increase sales, and while sales did increase, maybe not as fast as I wanted. I met so many wonderful people and connected to them,

Lee Kantor: [00:13:13] And that’s a great lesson for folks out there. When it comes to your growing, your own business is, you know, sometimes you have to get outside your comfort zone and sometimes you have to reevaluate, what are the metrics that matter? I mean, if you were just judging your actions on how many dollars did I generate, you may not be, you know, thrilled over the top. But if you measured on how many quality friends and relationships I have, you probably hit a home run. So it’s important to measure the right things.

Irina Alexander: [00:13:47] Absolutely, and seeing the riots, things focusing on riots, things once again back to the beginning of our conversation, what are you focusing on? Are you saying that what everything that is going wrong or you are actually focusing on the great things and finding a way to improve certain things that might not go as good as you thought they would?

Lee Kantor: [00:14:10] So now walk me through what it’s like to be part of this Academy of Motive action. How does someone kind of get involved and what are some of the things they can expect when they do?

Irina Alexander: [00:14:22] So Academy Motive Action is a training for entrepreneurs and thought leaders. As of right now, we have trainings usually quarterly in at our location in Texas, or we can also travel and it’s either a four day or seven day training that is almost like 10 hours long. I know it sounds crazy, but in order for to reprogram the way you think and have direct implementation into your life and business, we kind of taking you out of your environment. And reprograming and learning new tools and techniques and immediately practicing them so you can then leave the facility or leave your office or whatever it is and implement it in your life to create the success you want or a life you want.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:20] So it’s something that when they work with you, they’re coming to you in person. In real life, it’s not virtual, it’s not an online course. This is something that happens in real life, in real time.

Irina Alexander: [00:15:33] Correct. It is a live training that we organize because that’s what especially after COVID, that’s what people have been missing is actually being in person, feeling the energy, getting your hands on tools and techniques and practice them with real people.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:56] Now, if you could give some advice for our listeners right now that an action that they could take right now, today, what would that be something that would move the needle a little bit in their business?

Irina Alexander: [00:16:10] I would say sit down and write down on a scale of one to 10. Pick one area of your life or business and read it on a scale of one to 10. And for example, if it’s five. Then you’re missing five more points to being at the highest point of 10. So what I want you to do after you rate yourself and knows that five points are missing for each of those, I want you to write down what haven’t you been doing or you have been doing that is preventing you from being at 10. Does it make sense?

Lee Kantor: [00:16:55] Yeah, so you’re just kind of assessing what is the cause of it, but you’re not doing anything to take action to change anything just yet. You’re just evaluating and you’re saying, OK, if I did these things, then I could get to 10, correct?

Irina Alexander: [00:17:11] Well, it’s not even to do it or not to do it is. First thing is to realize what it is. You can take action towards something that you know, you don’t know. So you have to be clear, in order to be clear, you need to figure out what is the root cause. And if, like I’m saying, I’m at my house, for example, at eight and not in 10, what is what is I have not been doing or doing for me, not being a 10 while I’ve been eating ice cream, for example, once a week or every night. So I know now that, OK, this is the cause of me not being a tent. And next step is going to be a choice. Are you ready to take to make a choice to change it? Yeah, that’s that’s what mine of action is about,

Lee Kantor: [00:18:03] And that’s an important distinction because I think a lot of time people in their head are afraid. And if you actually write it down or say it out loud, it kind of takes some of the scariness away from it. You can see, Oh, if I do these 14 things, then my life will be better. So why don’t I just start working on these 14 things instead of this kind of vague, not thought of cloudy kind of pollution in my head? That is saying, Oh, I wish I was this, but if you start saying, Well, why am I not this? Here’s the 14 things that I could be doing that maybe I could be closer to that. It it becomes more practical and tangible. It gives me a path to go on as opposed to just this feeling of fear and anxiety.

Irina Alexander: [00:18:55] So mostly because life will not get better by chance, it will get better by choice change and action. So it’s very important to make a choice to change and then take massive action.

Lee Kantor: [00:19:10] Good stuff. Well, if somebody wants to learn more about the Academy of Motive action, where should they go?

Irina Alexander: [00:19:18] They can go to Academy of Motive Action dot com or simply book a call with me, book arena dot com, and we’ll be happy to answer any questions and tell you more or known about you and how how you can succeed in life in business and get what you want.

Lee Kantor: [00:19:37] Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing important work and we appreciate you.

Irina Alexander: [00:19:42] Thank you.

Lee Kantor: [00:19:43] All right, this is Lee Kantor, we’ll see you all next time on Coach the Coach radio.

Frankie Russo With The School of WHY

January 28, 2022 by Jacob Lapera

High Velocity Radio

Frankie Russo With The School of WHY

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Frankie Russo, through his Russo Capital firm, has developed a portfolio of companies across multiple industries, including technology, advertising, marketing, automotive, music, agriculture, publishing, and finance. The beneficiaries of his investments have offices in the United States and India and serve 128 US markets.

Russo and his team have led two of his companies to become some of America’s fastest-growing, privately-owned organizations for eight years in a row. The Art of WHY (2016), Russo’s first book, was on Amazon’s bestseller list in the self-help category and has been readapted and expanded into the rules-defying Breaking WHY

Frankie’s highest calling is his family, and he happily lives with his wife and six children in Louisiana.

Connect with Frankie on LinkedIn and follow him on Facebook.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

How to Break your WHY
How harnessing strategic emotions brought authentic success
Passion, purpose, and profits into one

This transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:05] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia, it’s time for high velocity radio

Lee Kantor: [00:00:15] Lee Kantor hear another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a fun one today. On the show we have Frankie Russo and he is with the school of Why? Welcome Frankie.

Frankie Russo: [00:00:25] Hey, man, thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:27] Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us a little bit about the School of Y. How are you serving, folks?

Frankie Russo: [00:00:33] All right, great. Well, the school is basically an extension of the two books that I’ve written. One was the Article II about five years ago and then Breaking Wide, which actually hits the stores on Tuesday. And the School of Y was something that we started because we found that there was a need to take the principals and all of the different pieces from the books that I’ve written, which are mostly about finding and mastering your purpose was the first book, and then the second book is about hacking and rebuilding what we call strategic emotions for authentic success and ultimately being able to turn your passion and purpose into profits. And so the School of Y is a place where people can come together. It’s a community with people that are mentoring each other, as well as that are coming in, working the steps from the book together. So there are ten steps from our books, and it’s the School of Y is basically working those steps, one on one with mentors and sponsors that are working with other people to help them to master their purpose and really break their y. And then as the workshops come together this year, we’ve been doing more group settings so that people can experience working these steps as a group. So that’s really the biggest thing we focus on, mostly entrepreneurs, because that’s been my experience. But we also work with musicians and athletes, as well as just really anyone who’s seeking to hack their current life to rebuild a better future.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:12] Now, I’m sure it’s no accident that why is the operative word here? Is it a lot of people with focus on the what of what they do or the how of what they do? But you’re it sounds like your center or your foundational piece is the why? How did you kind of come about that?

Frankie Russo: [00:02:31] Yeah. So actually started about 15 years ago. It was of all things, I was in the mortgage business and I was had a lot of young people that were up and coming. And of course, this is before the mortgage crisis hit. So just about anybody could could be involved in mortgages back then. And and I had a bunch of young guys that were all starting to follow me and work with me and all this and that, and I needed a way to kind of really train them to rethink the way that they interact with people that they’re going to work with. And a lot of them, you know, always when it comes to finance and money and banking, everything is always about what is the numbers right or how is this going to work? Or how long is it going to take or when can we close? And I had to really find a way to train them to start with asking the question, Why are you here and really getting down to the why? Because why if we know the answer to why? I realized early on that tells us the motive, right? If somebody knows why somebody would have, let’s say, killed someone in crime mysteries and detective work, we then have a motive, right? So but if you can figure out what the motive is, you can then use that to create motivation. And so that’s where it originally started at. And then that basically evolved from being about business and doing deals and success. It matured to being more about purpose because as I kind of kept going down my own journey over the last 15 years, I realized that success and making money and being successful in business started to matter less and less as I actually became more successful and I started to realize that having a purpose was actually more important than just being successful.

Frankie Russo: [00:04:16] And so the Y started to become about having a true purpose and figuring out why I’m here, and as I’ve kind of uncovered that it’s become a passion of mine and I found that a lot of other people are, they’re rarely asking that question. It’s like you said who, what, when, where, how often all those questions or questions I’ve got to ask every day to survive. I don’t actually have to ask the question why in order to survive, I can never ask that question and still survive. But if I want to really thrive and I want to fulfill and master my purpose on why I’m here and how that affects the people around me, in the community, around me, I’ve got to be asking that question. And it’s a question that sometimes can be really uncomfortable. And it’s it takes a lot of work and it’s going to continue to rediscover it. That’s one of the reasons why I wrote breaking why as a follow up to the art of why. Because even in the last five years, I’ve gone through a lot of stuff that really forced me to kind of break my own rules and break some of the things that I had even laid out in my first book. And what I learned was that that’s that is part of the ever evolving. Life that we’re living, we have to constantly be reevaluating and even breaking our why so that we can continue to grow and evolve.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:34] Now how do you create an environment of trust and vulnerability that allows a person to truly answer the why? Because a lot of times you’ll ask, like, why? Why do you, you know, why do you want this job? Or Why do you want to do whatever you’re trying to do? And it’s like, Oh, to make money or I got to feed my kids, or, you know, it’s something surface level, it isn’t really getting to the heart of what the real why might be that is motivating them.

Frankie Russo: [00:06:00] Well, so the thing about getting doing the work that I do around this deeper, more vulnerable experience with people, especially like in business for me, it actually came from going through a lot of difficult times for myself. So about almost 14 years ago, I got sober from drugs and alcohol. So that was one of the first real big times as an adult that I had to ask the question Why am I here? And I was forced to get a lot more vulnerable because I needed it to save my life. And so I find that the people that not everybody’s ready to ask this question, right? So it’s it’s it’s not this book and this journey isn’t for everyone. These this is for the people that are willing to to really dig deeper, to go deeper and and that want something more than just checking boxes and getting a check and and want to go and make their life more meaningful. And so the thing is, is that the first step in this journey is that you don’t really even start the work unless somebody is ready and not everybody’s ready. And a lot of times what makes us ready is experience, sometimes pain difficulties, setbacks. Those are the types of things that that kind of bring us to that sometimes bottom, if you will, that forces me to really start asking some of these questions because just asking the other questions isn’t working for me. So most people don’t start this process unless something is broken or something isn’t right, or there’s just something they’re no longer able to accept about their life or their situation.

Lee Kantor: [00:07:42] So there are some clues. There are some breadcrumbs that are happening for this person to say, You know what? Maybe I’ve got to take a step back or I got a way to beat and really look at things because what I’m doing now isn’t getting me where I want to go.

Frankie Russo: [00:07:58] Absolutely, and and a lot of times, some of the greatest things and the most successful people, it happens after what feels like major setback, you know, because like somebody who has maybe dreamed about starting their own company but is always working, a job is going to look at being fired or laid off as this massive setback. Like they’re going backwards. But how else are they going to be in a position to start something fresh and new? If they weren’t first forced into that uncomfortable position, and sometimes it is powers greater than us and call it the universe, call it, you know, corporate America, whatever the point is, is that it’s when we get to that place of feeling powerless, that we have an opportunity to rethink what what it is that we’re going to do to to regain power and to regain our life back. Right. And it’s easy to just go along to get along and just kind of follow the status quo or just follow what we think we’re supposed to do or what people tell us we’re supposed to do. And you know, those are the those are the times when you want to go deeper. I mean, to me, the the biggest lessons that I’ve learned, the best teachers that I’ve had has been pain. And as much as I wish that wasn’t true and I hate going through it. I always try to make the most of it. And a lot of the book is about how to maneuver that first from, like what I call the up steps. So the first five steps of the school y are about how to get started and really digging deep into like where we’re going. And then the second five steps are more what I call the lifestyle steps, and that’s where the ongoing daily work has to happen in order to continue to evolve and continue to be able to run the race that it takes to fulfill your purpose and fulfill your wife.

Lee Kantor: [00:09:54] Now, do you think the fact that so many people were, you know, a lot of people are using the term, this great resignation where a lot of people are, you know, kind of pulling the rip cord of their old life and saying, Look, after going through this pandemic, there has to be more. I’m not going to tolerate certain things anymore. I am going to find my passion. I am going to find my purpose and I’ll figure out the money part down the road. Do you think that this kind of line of thinking this art of why this school of why is the path for a lot of people when it comes to kind of reevaluating where they’ve been and where they want to go?

Frankie Russo: [00:10:32] A hundred percent. A lot of this book is about my experience, other people’s experiences that have gone through just that at different moments. For me, I thought that my life was over. You know, when I got sober at 13, 14 years ago, right? And also at the same time. Granted, that’s when the mortgage crisis hit. So I lost my business and I lost my marriage and I had to get sober all at the same time. So obviously, if you don’t rethink your life in a moment like that, you know, chances are it’s definitely going to get worse. So it always can get worse as something I’ve learned and I decided to do something different and I walk to work. I saw my sports car walk to work for a year decided I was going to do something very different, got into a business where I could build a name that wasn’t about just money or success and build something with true value and also focus on challenging myself to give back to others and to mentor other people and to sponsor other people, whether it be in a 12 step program or whether it be in in business. And that was a real kind of driver for me to create the school of why and these books in this community so that we could have a place for people that are entrepreneurs or maybe aren’t as aren’t aren’t going through something that would put them in a 12 step program, but create a similar type community to really grow together, build a team because that’s that’s something that I was blessed with 11 years ago, was a really powerful mentor who became like a business father to me.

Frankie Russo: [00:12:12] And that changed the course of my career. Ok. And so I know how powerful that can be, and to be able to share that with other people is important to me, and I think it’s important for all of us, no matter where we’re at, to be sharing and our experience with someone else in order to be a that in and of itself is a big part of what I think our purpose is in this life is to help others. And the tenth step is all about basically taking the experiences from these steps and then giving it back, and that’s really where it starts to come alive and stay alive.

Lee Kantor: [00:12:46] Now, for the folks that are interested in this, obviously the books are the starting point, but now you’re kind of evolving this into a community in a sense of. Really, people helping people in terms of getting the most out of their shared experience and helping each other go through this transition. Can you talk a little bit about if you were new to this where you would start and what the steps are to really ring out the most value from it?

Frankie Russo: [00:13:15] Yeah. So the first place you start is to get the breaking wide. So in the breaking my book is the the initial steps and the basic curriculum of the school life and to work the steps, the written portions which are in the book on their own and then to reach out to our school community to get plugged in and talk about ways to talk with us about what type of role they’d like to play as it relates to being a sponsor or being sponsored. And one of the cool things about it is that there’s no real money involved. So it’s not like a community where you’re paying fees and getting referrals and all that kind of nonsense. Those things might be a byproduct, but this is really about being able to have a mindshare and a community and coming together mostly so that each person in the community has a place where they can give back. So that’s really the theme is that everybody, including myself, is there to give back as opposed to just get so the way that we get or receive in this community is by giving back, but reaching out to the school or Frankie Russo or any of the social media platforms that I’m on right now, I like to keep it very personal. And so I’m encouraging people to reach out to me that way. But the first step is absolutely getting breaking WHI-, which is available on Amazon Books a million Barnes and Noble, all the main booksellers and starting the process on their own. And I usually encourage people to read through the book first and then come back and do the exercises. It can be difficult to do the exercises as you go. But I find that most people have have enjoyed the experience better by reading the book and then coming back to do the exercises.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:11] Now is there anything that listener could do right today based on your knowledge and past experience today that would help them move the ball and help them find this piece and this kind of life of meaning that your book talks about?

Frankie Russo: [00:15:32] Absolutely. You know, if somebody just wanted something to do today, it would be to start off by asking themselves, you know, the question of why am I here in this moment and why am I here on this Earth? Those are two big questions that we have to start asking ourselves. And then what I usually will do is have people list things that they used to love as a child or in their earlier years. See, most of the people I work with are just getting started up or they’re stuck. A lot of them are stuck. And some what I’ve learned is that if you can tap into what we loved when we were just a child, those things that were important to us back before we started to change is to start to remember those things and think about what would it take to bring those things back to the forefront. And one easy way to do that so list things that used to love as a child the earlier years that you didn’t. You don’t do anymore because of busyness or life or your situation or others opinions. And then you use that list to kind of help you uncover what are the things that now today you’re passionate about? Because tapping into what I’m passionate about is an important component of understanding my purpose. So those are some, some initial things, and there’s a bunch of other opportunities of what you can do. But but starting to kind of look at why am I here? Am I fulfilled asking those questions and starting to do some of that work of of looking within because the school is really about looking inward to be able to create what you want outward?

Lee Kantor: [00:17:02] Now, if somebody wants to learn more about the books and or the school of why, what’s the website one more time?

Frankie Russo: [00:17:08] Yeah. So it’s Frankie Rousseau or the School of Wired.com, and it’s

Lee Kantor: [00:17:13] The last school of why the school of why

Frankie Russo: [00:17:18] The School of Wine.com? That’s right.

Lee Kantor: [00:17:21] Well, Frankie, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work, and we appreciate you.

Frankie Russo: [00:17:26] Awesome. Well, thanks so much for having me. I’m really excited to have been a part of your show.

Lee Kantor: [00:17:31] All right, this is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on high velocity radio.

Brian Pruett With Lake City Branding And John Quirk With Asset Location & Recovery Intl

January 27, 2022 by Jacob Lapera

Cherokee Business Radio

Brian Pruett With Lake City Branding And John Quirk With Asset Location & Recovery Intl

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This Episode was brought to you by

Brian Pruett, Co-owner at Lake City Branding

Brian Pruett is passionate about sports, fundraising, and helping others by helping find their potential and showing them how to market and brand themselves by using his creative abilities! He is a jack of all trades.

He is a Sales and Marketing professional with event planning and sponsorship background as well as proficient in contract negotiations, organizing, coordinating and fundraising. Great ability to maintain public relations, work well as a team player, able to multitask, uncanny knack for getting people to come to events & help them have a great time and familiar with Microsoft Word, PowerPoint, and Excel. He possesses the strengths of Ideation, Responsibility, Individualization, Empathy, and Developer.

He currently has found something that he can use his passion of sports, and helping others with Lake City Branding & Small Business Solutions. This business allows him to help others in Branding their business in many different and creative ways as well as still working with retired athletes.

Connect with Brian on LinkedIn and follow Lake City Branding on Facebook.

John Quirk, President and Chief Executive Officer at Asset Location & Recovery Intl

John Patrick Quirk is the author of a number of books and articles on national security and intelligence, including the CIA Entrance Examination, The Intelligence Community and the FBI Entrance Examination. He is also the author of the best-selling, CIA: A Photographic History. He has recently written articles for the ABA’s National Security Law Report: Latin America and the New US National Security Concerns and a second article, New Targeting and Goals in National Security Matters.

Other recent articles include topics on Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, French Foreign Policy, Banking Secrecy and the All European Intelligence Service. John Quirk is a Professor of National Security Studies and lectures on corporate and financial intelligence in France and Istanbul.

He has lived in Venezuela, France, Russia, Yugoslavia and Jordan. He has also testified before the House Intelligence Committee on KGB Matters. For several years he taught a 14-week course on Intelligence and National Security at two universities and has lectured at the California Bar on Corporate Espionage. He has lectured for several years on the World’s Intelligence Services at the Center for Diplomatique and Strategic Studies in Paris and one year at the Diplomatic Academy of London.

He is a subject of two books titled Betrayed, about his work in Russia and Eastern Europe regarding the POW issue, and The Penafiles, how he rescued a client from being indicted. His new writings include a book on Terror in Latin America and an article on Local Police Cooperation in Terrorism matters. He divides his time between Florida and France.

This transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:07] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Woodstock, Georgia. It’s time for Cherokee Business Radio. Now here’s your host.

Stone Payton: [00:00:23] Welcome to another exciting and informative edition of Cherokee Business RadioX Stone Payton here with you this morning, and today’s episode is brought to you, in part by Alma Coffey, sustainably grown, veteran owned and direct trade, which of course means from seed to cup, there are no middlemen. Please go check them out at my almacoffee.com and Go visit their Roastery Cafe at thirty four point forty eight Holly Springs Parkway in Canton. As for Harry or the brains of the outfit Leticia? And please tell them that stone sent You, you guys are in for a real treat this morning. First up on Cherokee Business Radio, please join me in welcoming to the broadcast with Lake City branding Mr. Brian Pruett. Good morning, sir.

Brian Pruett: [00:01:11] Good morning, sir. Thank you for your invite to be a part of this.

Stone Payton: [00:01:14] Well, I am delighted to have you. Of course, I have a real affinity for anything sales, marketing, promotion, anything that’s going to help the business person and particularly the small business person, get the word out about what they’re doing. Get some visibility out there. So I really appreciate what you do. Can’t pretend to understand how to do it, but I don’t have to. I can. I could call you right. That’s right. So do tell us a little bit about mission purpose what you envision yourself out there trying to do for folks.

Brian Pruett: [00:01:48] So I’d like to be that person that’s helping that small business get their word out and getting them to draw their customers to them. I’ve worked for several different folks around the metro Atlanta area in different capacities, mostly in the sales and marketing aspect of it. And they just, I’ll be honest, they were crooks. They said things that they didn’t, they didn’t mean and they didn’t do the job. They said they did. And I don’t want to be that person. I’ve seen what not to do. I’ll just give you a quick example if I can everyone please. We had a sales slick. I became this this company. I won’t mention any names, but I became this sales, this company sales marketing sales director and ran a contest for some of our clients. And during the holidays, part of the numbers were cut in half for this particular product. And I didn’t know that until I talked to the circulation manager. It’s just a little hand. It was a newspaper, but come to find out when our sales. Alex told everybody that we did one hundred and twenty thousand circulation and I find out at the most it was twelve thousand circulation. That’s a big deal, you know? So I walked in the next day after finding that out and handed my resignation. And when I was asked what I was doing, I told him I wasn’t going to lie to customers anymore. So unfortunately, I had a little streak there for a while who worked for a lot of business owners who just didn’t do what they told the customers they were going to do. Yeah. So I want to be the person who is honest, reliable and getting the word out for that small business to help grow their business.

Stone Payton: [00:03:21] So I got to tell you, and I’m sure this is no surprise to you as a small business person myself, you know, I run this little studio here in Woodstock, and I also work for the network trying to help grow grow our presence across the country. This whole idea of advertising and marketing, it’s an elusive creature. It’s it’s a little bit intimidating. We we so often find ourselves at the mercy of someone who purports to know how to do everything from social media to direct advertising and all that. What do you do? What can you do to set a person’s mind at ease and get them in a space where they can collaborate with you to create a productive campaign?

Brian Pruett: [00:04:03] So I love to sit down with the owner and hear about their story and what they’re trying to do and what their business is. And then from that, I’d like to find out what they’ve done in the past, what seems to work, what doesn’t work, and then put together a plan for them. I’ve done everything from selling for advertising to newspapers to magazines. We’re doing direct mail to events, that kind of stuff. And there is a little bit of good in every single one of those. I think a lot of people don’t understand the difference between marketing, advertising and branding. It all kind of kind of comes under one umbrella, but there is a difference. You know, marketing is my first to any activities undertaken by a company to promote and buying or selling of a service. And you’ve got the four p’s of marketing, which is, you know, the product price, place and promotion.

Stone Payton: [00:04:51] That’s the one thing. I got a marketing degree, and that’s why I’m pretty good at table tennis and pool because I didn’t pay as much attention as I should. That’s the one thing I remember is the four pieces. Is that still valid is I still have a place in our framing.

Brian Pruett: [00:05:06] It does. It does, you know? And then if you go in to look at the the the advertising aspect of it, that is the act of practice, of calling public attention to one’s product service need and especially by paid announcements in newspapers. Magazines, radio, television, billboards, et cetera, there’s just I could go on and on. Yeah, branding falls under that, and that’s when you, you know, you put your logo on shirts, hats, pins, different things to give away. And I also believe that nowadays print has gotten to the point where it’s not just advertising, you’re still branding yourself because a lot of people don’t unless it’s a local magazine, local newspaper. People that keep they say print is dead. It’s not totally true, but you’re branding yourself, you know, people see that logo in in a magazine and newspaper, and they remember that after reading it all of it over when you had a business card or somebody, you’re branding yourself right?

Stone Payton: [00:06:03] And I think I heard someone say not too long ago, right in the studio that your branding, whether you want to or not. Right, right. One, four

Brian Pruett: [00:06:14] Seven. If you go to any networking event, you go to any networking event you’re branding yourself. Right, right. Your sales because you’re selling yourself. And I think that’s what’s important to understand is that if you’re working for somebody and trying to do sales or if you own your business and doing sales, you’re selling yourself. Yeah, you’ve got to establish one relationships. Relationships is huge in this industry and sales of any kind. Yeah. And you know, if you don’t. Establish that relationship, begin that trust in us, you know, trusting somebody to do what they say and then not doing it.

Stone Payton: [00:06:47] Your relationship is dead. Well, we were talking about this before we went on air. You and I are both part of the Woodstock Business Club and and I’ve written business as a result of that, but maybe just as importantly, if not more so. There’s a plumber, there’s a video guy, there’s a business attorney in there that I have come to know and trust and enough to use them myself. But also, if you or our other guest, John, that will visit with her a little bit, you know, said, Hey, do you know a good plumber in the area? I without hesitation, you’ve got to talk to Justin. He’s the guy read, Tell me. And I know. I just know Justin is going to come through. Those relationships are, I mean, they are so critical. I knew that to be true in the consulting, training speaking world because that’s where I came from. But it’s obviously true across the board, isn’t it?

Brian Pruett: [00:07:39] Oh, definitely. I mean, you know, one industry that I find, there’s three industries that I find very hard to really give good recommendations referrals to because everybody in the world does them, and it’s real estate mortgages and insurance. You know, so I’ve got friends, good friends, multiple friends that are in all three of those and have multiple relationships with multiple people in those things. So I always tell somebody, Well, who am I going to tick off in an industry? But you know, it comes down again to a good relationship. Some of those, like I just came from another networking group where they promote collaboration over competition. Mm hmm. Right. So somebody who let’s just take a mortgage broker may not be able to do something that another mortgage broker can do. So they were for that back and forth. I think that’s what you. You know, if you refer your friend and he can’t do it, believe and understand that he’s referring to somebody else who can and will take care of you. Right? So again, that’s the relationship part of, you know, understanding that you’re not going to refer somebody who’s just going to come in and not take care of you, rip you off, you know, do anything that’s going to hurt you.

Stone Payton: [00:08:46] So over the years of doing this, I got to believe that you’ve seen people make some of the same mistakes, like you’ve seen some patterns. Is that accurate? And if so, can you can you share some of those patterns or some of those do’s and don’ts when we’re thinking about using services like yours?

Brian Pruett: [00:09:04] I think probably the biggest. One mistake and it comes down to even part of the printing aspect because we do commercial printing as well. And it comes to the fact where they make the mistake of going to somewhere who’s not local. Meaning like Vistaprint going online and buying their stuff.

Stone Payton: [00:09:23] There goes my Vistaprint sponsorship, John. No, I’m kidding.

Brian Pruett: [00:09:29] You know, and because they think they’re less expensive, that’s not always the case. Why you should do business with that person or that company, right? You know, if if there’s a mistake to be made, keep on Vistaprint. If there’s a mistake to be made and you call them, you’re not going be able to talk to anybody. Right? When you got somebody local, you can talk to somebody, figured it out. Get the the issues fixed, whatever the case is. The other thing that I think about is the other mistake that I see all the time when it comes to marketing is that when a business says, well, I’ve got to cut costs, the first thing they cut is marketing dollars. And that’s the worst thing you can do, right? Because you’ve got to keep your name out there, you’ve got to keep your brand out there. You want your customers still to come. The other thing when it comes to marketing and people say, Well, I’m just too busy. Don’t stop your branding because, yeah, you don’t want customers anything, but if you’re too busy, but you would need to hire some help. Why not brand yourself by doing a help wanted ad? So you’re keeping your name out there all the time, so people just see it.

Stone Payton: [00:10:33] So and this doesn’t have to cost a fortune, right? If you if you just eyes wide open, just build it into your budget, even if it’s a percentage of your of the gross receipts you’re bringing in, maybe just right off the top put in that branding bucket. Is there some wisdom in something like that?

Brian Pruett: [00:10:52] Yeah, I think that if you do look just like your personal budget, if you set aside a certain amount every month right to go into that, then you can build a pretty decent plan in a small business, can build a really good one, both just the local vendors in the media that can help them grow their business.

Stone Payton: [00:11:09] Yeah. So what is your favorite part? What do you enjoy the most about this work?

Brian Pruett: [00:11:15] The networking I love being I’m a people person. I love getting out. I’m going to have a run by somebody. Tell me that I’m like Santa because I’m everywhere. They see me everywhere.

Stone Payton: [00:11:25] Which again, that’s a that’s a I mean, I realize that you enjoy it, but that’s just good. Solid mojo. That’s good branding strategy, right?

Brian Pruett: [00:11:32] Right. And they say I’m built like him too. So I got that jelly belly just like him. So but the other thing too is it’s been joked around and I’ve actually made some business cards up with this that I’m the leader of the networking posse. For a while there, I took two guys around with me and they all we did was network together, so they branded me the leader of the networking posse. So I tell people all the time, if you want to go with me, I’ll keep you busy networking. I’ll introduce you to folks. But that’s my favorite part.

Stone Payton: [00:12:00] Well, I got to tell you, networking I personally always found uncomfortable, did not do very much of it in my former career, even when I was trying to market to a local constituency. I don’t mind it now. In fact, I enjoy it more because I can invite people to come on my show like instead of trying to sell them something, right? So. So I enjoy that. But what? What tips, counsel, if any, do you have on? I don’t know what the right word. Working the room, you know, like if you go to a Woodstock business club or a Canton business club or the chamber is there, are there some do’s and don’ts or some some some good tactics strategies for them?

Brian Pruett: [00:12:39] Yeah. So the first thing is, don’t go in and try to hand your business card and sell to every single person

Stone Payton: [00:12:44] And every room has that guy right? Yes. Right, John? Right? Yes.

Brian Pruett: [00:12:49] And the other thing too is you’re not going to be able to meet everybody. So what I’ve been taught and learned is you try to talk to somebody, be nice, but listen to what listen is. Listening is key. Yeah, to to what they do. And if you think one, it’s going to benefit them that your services can offer or you know, somebody else that they can benefit from knowing. That’s that’s huge. I’ve taken the approach this year, twenty twenty two has been is what I’m trying to do in networking is do as many one to ones establish the relationship? Yeah. And not talk about Brian. But listen about Stone. Listen to their story. And then how can I help them if it if I can help them because of my business? Great. But if it’s because I can introduce them to John, then that’s what I’m going to do.

Stone Payton: [00:13:35] I’ll tell you who should do like a training video on this. It’s just this is just the way this guy operates, you know, and Rudy Garza over there, it would to stop Business Club. You’ll really have to press to get the man’s name and his business. If you’re meeting with him, he is genuinely listening to to what? Who you are or what you do. Why you do it. And he is wired to say, Oh, you know what? You need to meet Bill. I’m going to I’m going to have. I’m going to connect you with or he’ll walk you. If you’re in the room, he’ll walk you over there. You don’t hear him say anything about insurance. I bet he writes more business. Anybody in the room, right? He is a living example of what you’re describing. And candidly, so many in that crowd or are are that way. Ok, so let’s get a little bit tactical here for a moment because I get the very distinct sense that working with you is not not Hey, Stonewall million. My catalog, right? Right. I mean, you’re a did you tell me if this is inaccurate? I get this sense that you’re essentially a marketing consultant and in some of the tools that you have available to help me achieve the objective might be promotional products or some of these. But speak more to that.

Brian Pruett: [00:14:46] Yeah, so I haven’t. We started part of this business back in June. Just the Lake City part. Ok. All right. We had a magazine up until then that we covered high schools and Bartow and Gordon counties, but to answer your question is part of my business model for this is yes, I wanted to be that consultant and going and listen to the business owner and then sell them. You know, whether you’re using us or you’re using the family, you know, magazines or Mary Daly Journal or whatever the case is. Let me look at what you’re doing and what you’ve done in the past, and then let me see if I can put a plan together. That makes more sense if that’s going to be the case. Because again, I’ve worked, I’ve done sales for different print media, done, you know, some things in the sports world and realize that, hey, that you might want to sponsor this team because that’s going to be big for you and your business, right? That type of stuff. So to answer your question, that is correct. I also have worked for a media buying agency and and most people don’t understand what that is. I want to go in and listen to them and and and instead of, well, I’ll maybe on top of putting the plan together, let me be the person that’s going to all these different media vendors and work on a plan with them. So you’re not having directly to deal with them. Let me do that and might be able to even negotiate a better price.

Stone Payton: [00:16:04] Yeah, I wouldn’t have the first clue about how to buy media, and we don’t sell ads in our particular business model. But yeah, if I were to buy, I would screw that up. Nine ways to Sunday.

Brian Pruett: [00:16:16] Yeah, I mean, and you have to be able to understand and know different aspects and different vendors, from billboards to radio to cable TV to, you know, all the different stuff. So there’s a lot to go into it. And most people, most business owners, you asked about mistakes early, most business. The other mistake they do is try to do it all themselves. Let somebody come in, you know, and spend the money.

John Quirk: [00:16:37] Brian, has COVID affected your business or other businesses in the last year?

Brian Pruett: [00:16:41] Yeah. Well, that’s why we had to shut our magazine down because we couldn’t get the advertising, so we had to rebrand ourselves.

Stone Payton: [00:16:47] I see. Well, it’s impacted us. In some ways it actually helped us. We we started doing more virtual interviews because people didn’t want to come in the studio. It’s not the same thing by any stretch. It’s not anywhere near, you know what we’re doing right here. But it did. It still gave us a way to serve, and it did expand one segment of our of our market. But yeah, it’s impacting. It’s impacting everyone, I think.

Brian Pruett: [00:17:16] One thing that I have learned from this business, we were briefly talking and joking before about direct mail. I was one of those guys who thought direct mail was junk until I got into the business and found out how how it can be definitely effective and only because we’ve come up with, I guess you could say it’s our baby, but it’s called a billboard postcard that we mail to five thousand homes every six weeks and rotate the areas. And there’s twenty twenty five businesses on there. And it’s really cool to know when you’re your product works because you have a client, call you back and say, When’s your next mailer? Because I just got four clients off this thing. Oh, sweet, you know? So if it’s done right, if it’s got somebody who can do it while business partners been doing it for a while, so he knows he does all the paperwork and we take it to the post office for you and all that. It can be very effective, but the key to that is to having a very good call to action. Why should that customer call? Are you right now granted with ours? It’s a little kind of being innovative because the ads are basically a business card size or two if they do double spots. So we put a QR code on top of the in front on the front of the card. So when a person gets it and they scan it, everybody who’s on that card has some kind of offer mentioned. They say I’d get 10 percent off from whatever the case may be. So you have to be creative too. But I was just thinking, you know, about people who talk about direct mail and it doesn’t work. And maybe because you’re not hitting the right customers, it may be because the right person is not doing it or the right message isn’t right. So. But yeah, so I enjoy being able to be creative in helping others.

Stone Payton: [00:18:52] I can tell. I know it comes through in your voice. I can see it in your eyes here in the studio. So do you find that there is a distinction in many cases in what’s going to be an effective strategy for business to consumer type businesses or retail versus B2B business to business?

Brian Pruett: [00:19:13] Yeah, I mean, a lot of folks that we’ve talked to, we are now getting ready to actually kick off a one of those billboard postcards to 5000 business for business to business customers. Ok. Because the message is it’s different. Obviously, if you are a let’s just take an HVAC customer who wants to hit your residential right, one HVAC for a commercial is going to be able you’ve got a bigger building, you’ve got different aspects. So your music is going to be a little different I.T. companies. They’re not going to promote residential because I mean, yeah, they could work on computers, but that’s not what they’re there for. Right, right. So they’re going to go out and they’re going to try to do some kind of add to the business owner of wireless. Why letting me take care of your it is important, you know, and stuff like that. So you’ve got again, got to be creative on that. But yes, there are different ways to to work with those and get the message out there to different customers. If I believe that, answer your question.

Stone Payton: [00:20:11] Well, yeah, what I think I hear you saying is so many of these tools and resources can be utilized effectively in both of those arenas, but it circles back to working with someone that has the experience, has some, some real knowledge and expertize in the arena can make the distinction and make the.

Brian Pruett: [00:20:30] Yeah, I had to cancel what I will say to going back to the direct mail piece. Part is, you know, when you talk to somebody about doing social media and digital marketing, they can talk about how they can target your IP, address your income. I don’t know that most people know that you can actually do that with direct mail. I had somebody who. Oh, no, I can’t.

Stone Payton: [00:20:49] Yeah, right. It sounds like you can. We can. We can help you with that.

Brian Pruett: [00:20:54] I had somebody approached me and asked me they were doing the Alzheimer’s walk for the Rome area back in the summer, and they asked if there was a way for us to target people who’ve donated to Alzheimer’s in the past. We actually could. We actually found that, oh wow, we wound up not doing the mail piece because it was a little out of their budget. But we think the point is we can find we can find anything to and do it direct mail piece for that, just like you can on digital

Stone Payton: [00:21:19] Now, do you guys work with promotional products like the hats and the pins and the and that kind of stuff are like this little messenger bag I have here?

Brian Pruett: [00:21:27] And yes, we can.

Stone Payton: [00:21:28] You or you have someone that you bring in for something like that

Brian Pruett: [00:21:32] Or, yeah, we can we can get it done for you, whether we have to outsource it or whatever the case is, we can get it done. Funny story. When we started doing this back in June and we met with one of the vendors we were going to work with, we learned real quickly what the hot seller was back in the summer and won’t go because I know this. We’re on air. But condoms was the big seller back in the summer for hotels. The all the hotels are buying up, putting their logos on them and keep them in the room so we can literally put your logo on anything but.

Stone Payton: [00:22:06] But again, it’s it sounds like it’s not. Hey, you know, let’s just let’s go to Brian and order some more books or hats or T-shirts or whatever. Yeah, make that call. But you’re more of the the quarterback and strategist. And if that fits into the strategy? Great, if not. And let’s, you know, make sure that we take into account the budget and plan accordingly. Your eye sees as much more of a strategic resource than a promotional vendor, right?

Brian Pruett: [00:22:36] Yeah. The other thing, too, is one of my jobs that I was able to have was I was blessed to be able to have and I’m a big sports person. Ok, so but this particular job that I was, that I had allowed me to have and get introductions and maintain relationships with a lot of retired sports athletes who live around the areas. Yeah. And what I’d like to do, which I’ve not been able to do yet, and I’ve talked to some of these guys that that would be willing to do it is again, along with the budget of a small business owner. But let’s do a smaller scale of a Tiger Woods and Nike with some. These athletes who live in the area where the retired, you know, or whatever, let don’t promote that small business and see where it goes.

Stone Payton: [00:23:15] Fun. So I got to ask. I think I know most of the answer based on the conversation so far, but I got to know, man. How does the whole sales and marketing thing work for you? Work for Lake City branding? Do you find yourself eating a lot of your own cooking or how do you get the new business all networking?

Brian Pruett: [00:23:35] Yeah, I was just talking with somebody last night and talking with my mom and my wife as well that I’ve been blessed enough to all of the business that Lake City has gotten. I have not had to do one cold call. Wow. I’ve done some cold call emails here and there, but the ninety five percent of the business has come from networking.

Stone Payton: [00:23:56] Yeah. And that relationship building as a as a product of the network. Right. So you have so much energy and your enthusiasm is contagious. So I suspect this doesn’t happen very often. But you know, I’ve been around people my whole life, so I know sometimes you must run out of gas and you got to recharge. Where do you go for? And I don’t necessarily mean a physical location. It might be, you know, a book or whatever. But where do you go for inspiration and to kind of get recharged and ready to suit up and show up again?

Brian Pruett: [00:24:30] So I spend a lot of time with my family in the evenings and then also hang out with friends. We do. Some of us go and do trivia one night a week. I used to host trivia, but I go play it now instead of hosting. And it’s just that time with friends and family that that really energizes me and. And then the other thing too, is thinking back about people that I’ve helped in the past.

Stone Payton: [00:24:53] That’s got to feel good, right? Yeah, yeah. So what’s next, man? What where are you going to be putting your energy in the next several months? Are you looking to grow the business to scale it, to replicate you or you’re just going to hunker down? Or what are you going to do if

Brian Pruett: [00:25:07] I could clone myself? That would be great, but scary at the same time. But yes, I want to grow this business. I need some. I need some sales help right now. The other thing that I want to do is I want to actually get back into some charity event planning. Back in September, we actually I partnered with somebody and we put on a business expo in Cartersville, which was the first business expo in Kargil in five years and got 52 vendors. And what I did was I wanted to give a portion of the proceeds to the Tranquility House, which is the battered women’s shelter there in Bartow County. At the end of the day, we were able to hand a check for $2000 to them. Oh, nice. So I want to be able to put on events like that and be able to spread the love of different charity because there’s so many out there that do good things that are local and small that people don’t get to hear about. So that’s what I want to do and add to Lake City.

Stone Payton: [00:26:02] Well, it’s a conversation for off the air, but I really would like to sit down. And of course, you know, I’d like to do it over a beer. That’s my stuff. But we’ll do it over coffee. If you want,

Brian Pruett: [00:26:12] I’ll do it over root beer.

John Quirk: [00:26:13] Ok, that sounds good.

Stone Payton: [00:26:15] But one of the things that we would like to do here locally for Cherokee Business Radio I would like is to start having a regular influx of people who are running nonprofits and are managing these causes. I don’t feel like they they get a lot of attention. I don’t think most traditional media are probably knock on their door down, saying Come and talk to us about your mission and purpose. And so I’d love to sort of tap into that world and I don’t know, maybe even set up a monthly series or something. It sounds like maybe you’ve got some inroads into that world.

Brian Pruett: [00:26:49] Definitely. We can definitely talk about that.

Stone Payton: [00:26:51] All right. If our listeners want to learn more, I want to have a conversation with you or someone on your team and talk about any of this or sit down with the root beer and just kind of think through where they are and where they’d like to be with their with their marketing and their branding. What’s the best way? Let’s leave them with some coordinates, whatever’s appropriate LinkedIn, email, phone, whatever website.

Brian Pruett: [00:27:11] So our website is Lake City branding. You can go there and there’s a contact us form there. I’ll give you my email. It’s Brian, it’s Brian at Lake City branding. You can follow Lake City branding on Facebook, and you can look me up on on LinkedIn as well.

Stone Payton: [00:27:28] So fantastic. Well, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show.

Brian Pruett: [00:27:34] Thank you for having me.

Stone Payton: [00:27:35] Yeah, keep up the good work. Hey, how about hanging out with us while we visit with our next game?

Brian Pruett: [00:27:39] Absolutely. I love to learn more about John here.

Stone Payton: [00:27:42] Fantastic. All right. Next up on Cherokee Business Radio this morning we have with us managing director for Asset Allocation and Recovery International, Mr. John Quirk. Good morning, sir.

John Quirk: [00:27:54] Stone, good morning. Thanks for inviting me.

Stone Payton: [00:27:57] What a delight. This is fun. So what did you learn in that last segment, man? Anything you can take away down to your back to your business?

John Quirk: [00:28:03] I learned we need Brian and we need Lake City.

Stone Payton: [00:28:06] I can tell you that

John Quirk: [00:28:07] Most of our business comes. From word of mouth, but we want to grow our business, and I’ll tell you, I am definitely going to get together with Brian Pruitt.

Stone Payton: [00:28:15] All right. We’ll talk about my commission on that later, Brian. It sounds good to me. So. So John, mission purpose, asset, location and Recovery International. Tell us what you guys are up to out there.

John Quirk: [00:28:27] Well, we locate and recover assets taken as a result of financial fraud, and that means investment fraud, divorce spouses and so on. We locate assets locally through our sister company, Spencer Investigations, which is a licensed investigative agency. My business, which is asset, location and recovery, focuses on all the overseas banking havens. So we locate money in Bermuda, Jersey, Jersey, Isle of Man, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Cook Islands and so on. We’ve been doing this for 20 years. We locate the money and we recover the money overseas

Stone Payton: [00:29:11] So you can hide your money, but you can’t have it from John

John Quirk: [00:29:15] In most countries. We’re able to find, find the money and recover it. Every country is a little different. Switzerland is different than Panama. Bermuda is different than the Cook Islands or the Cayman Islands, but you have different kinds of terms and we use different remedies to recover the money. Ok, I

Stone Payton: [00:29:34] Got to know what’s the back story? How in the world does one get in this line of work? Tell us a little bit about your career path and how you landed here, man.

John Quirk: [00:29:43] Well, I worked in the intelligence community for 35 years. I lived overseas. I lived in Russia, Venezuela, Turkey, Yugoslavia, France for many years. My wife used to say I’ve been thrown out of every decent country in the world, and we’re all former FBI and CIA, and we use intelligence tactics. Not so much law enforcement tactics to recover the money. We use financial databases and sources that we have overseas that are either lawyers, sometimes criminals, Standard Chartered accountants in all of these different venues to help us locate the money, how the money got there. We’re a member of Swift, which we use to trace money wire transfers, and we’re able to obtain documents to support lawyers that are involved in litigation in this country or law enforcement, international law enforcement that’s looking for money as a result of money laundering cases.

Stone Payton: [00:30:49] So is fraud more prevalent today than several years ago? Or is it just on my mind because I’ve been watching the the season four of Ozark?

John Quirk: [00:31:00] No fraud. Fraud is booming in many, many areas. We used to have a fraud database. We had 100000 fraudsters listed in it. There’s different kinds of fraud, there’s senior fraud, there’s investment fraud. There’s fraud now by a divorced spouse hiding money overseas and abandoned children and spouses in a divorce setting. And what people don’t realize is that fraud really undermines democracy. We talk about, you know, terrorism and terrorism gets a lot of play, but draining money. We’ve had tremendous fraud and covert billions of dollars have been lost. Mortgage fraud, investment fraud, all kinds of different fraud is really draining money out of democratic countries.

Stone Payton: [00:31:52] So are there things that we, as individuals, heads of families, business owners? Are there some just basic blocking and tackling that we can and should be doing to insulate ourselves a little bit from being easy pickings for fraudsters?

John Quirk: [00:32:08] Yeah, it’s a good question.

Stone Payton: [00:32:10] In order to get it out. But I thought it’s a great question. What do you mean?

John Quirk: [00:32:13] Well, what I usually tell people is that in the beginning, do a background check on somebody just because they said they went to the Wharton School of Law or the Wharton School of Business, or just because they said that they’re very liquid doesn’t mean anything. There’s so many different kinds of fraudsters. We have so many people in prison and so many people probably that should be prosecuted. And there are so many different kinds of frauds small frauds, large frauds. We do mainly large investment frauds where people have invested money in Ponzi schemes or pyramids. And because there’s more of an educated information base on how to hide money, more people are putting money in Switzerland, Bermuda, Panama, the Caymans and so on. And that’s those are the banking havens we target for 20 years, I used to do an annual trip. I’d go to Guernsey, which is an island off the coast of England. I’d go to the Isle of Man, which is a banking haven off the coast of Ireland. Then I’d go to Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Cyprus. I fly out to Hong Kong, Macao and so on. And there’s some of these countries that no longer are really banking havens. People no longer put money in the Bahamas. They no longer put money in Hong Kong because of the situation. Panama is not a good place to put money. Caymans is a very, very top place to put money, and different ethnic groups hide money in certain places like you’ve heard a lot about Nigerian and West African frauds. You know, they send these letters through the mail. They like Guernsey. Canadian fraudsters like Bermuda, OK? Americans usually go to Switzerland or Liechtenstein if they have a lot of money. So we find money, whether it’s in a trust stock account, bank account or intermingled Swiss Technical Fund, a Swiss management portfolio con. It’s called. So those are all of our targets, basically.

Stone Payton: [00:34:27] So what makes these places havens? Is there a degree of privacy that you’re afforded there that you’re not afforded, like in a typical American bank or what?

John Quirk: [00:34:39] Yes, they call it banking secrecy, but in Switzerland, there really is no more banking secrecy. There’s only a couple places really that are super secret that are even difficult for us to find money. Well, I don’t

Stone Payton: [00:34:52] Tell them about those. Ok. Unless you want to.

John Quirk: [00:34:55] Well, it’s not a big secret. Liechtenstein is very difficult. Luxembourg is difficult because they haven’t signed the international money laundering laws. And you see, when you get into these type of things, you have a coterie of specific criminal violations. We prefer criminal recoveries. So if somebody has been involved in conspiracy, fraud, wire fraud and usually money laundering, money laundering always comes at the end. People think, Oh, it’s a money laundering case. You can have money laundering. If you don’t have wire fraud, you can’t have money laundering. If you don’t have conspiracy to defraud or bank fraud or embezzlement, money laundering always comes at the end. And most of these countries now have laws, which means know your customer and suspicious activity. But many of the banking havens don’t pay attention to it. North Korean drug money is hidden in certain places. Putin owns fifteen hundred companies in Guernsey. He’s probably the richest man in the world. Way more rich than Donald Trump or Bill Gates. And so fraud is it cuts across business, politics, government. And to answer your original question, we just have more corruption everywhere. We have corruption in government, business, banking, health care. We are in part of the corruption is that the world has become so much more prosperous. There’s so much more money to steal and fraudsters engage in that in a very big way and a very clever way. And law enforcement is very, very difficult and hard to catch up to them.

Stone Payton: [00:36:45] Oh, I bet. So what is the process look like? I maybe I’ve been defrauded. Someone’s embezzled some money or something, and now I reach out to John because now, now you’re on my radar. What? What does our relationship information exchange? What does that process look like when you bring on a new client?

John Quirk: [00:37:10] Well, first we do a background on the target. The bad guy. Ok. Second thing is we locate all their assets. We can find anybody’s bank account trust, wire transfer. Wow. Domestically or internationally. Then the most important thing we have to determine was it really fraud or a bad investment? Two different things. Yeah. You know, everybody thinks they lose money and it’s fraud, and the FBI is completely overwhelmed. Now, the FBI and our firm is getting heavily into identifying digital currency bitcoins. We couldn’t do it a year ago, but now we can find the balance and transfers of bitcoin. So there’s always new types of frauds, but you have to be sure that it’s not just an investment that’s gone bad. Yeah. Then you have to after you locate the money, we have to. Develop a remedy to recover the money, and there’s only a few remedies. And when I say only a few remedies is very difficult to get your money back when somebody is taking it. The first thing we do is when we find out something, Hey, did the person that took your money, did he go out and buy a Range Rover? A boat, a car? Spend a lot of money on his girlfriend’s jewelry? Does he have any money left? Because it may not be worth going after him? Because law enforcement, mainly the FBI or the IRS Criminal Division there are only interested in the prosecution.

John Quirk: [00:38:45] They’re not interested in getting money back. They’re not a collection agency. So what we do is there’s only three ways really to get your money back unless you use some mafia thug to visit the guy. We don’t do that. So there’s a civil way that’s civil litigation. You hire a lawyer to sue the person. There’s criminal, which we prefer. Explain that in a minute, and there’s a hybrid civil and criminal to get your money back. We prefer the criminal remedy because it’s nine out of 10 times you’ll get your money back if you work with a specific law enforcement group that is interested in the criminal violation, while our company is only interested in getting the client’s money back. And that’s a criminal complaint, and it’s a remedy called Mallette, which is called Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty. I write articles on this. Yeah, it’s in the Justice Department and they will help you get money back in Switzerland or Hong Kong or Bermuda or the Cook Islands. Or you can use British techniques called Anton Piller Ax or Meriva injunctions. Because if you look at all the offshore banking havens, they were all run basically by England, Hong Kong, Bermuda, Caymans, Turks, Barbados, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Jersey and Cyprus. Even Monte Carlo were all British law. So you use British law in the criminal area to recover the money if there’s any money left that the fraudsters taken.

Stone Payton: [00:40:30] So you’re a prolific writer. You write and teach. You got a lot of irons in the fire. Speak a little bit to that. Is that accurate? Don’t you’ve written books and articles and all kinds of stuff? Have you?

John Quirk: [00:40:42] Well, most of my books and articles are initial security. I wrote the official history of the CIA, FBI and things we use in our terminology, like targeting and counter-espionage. Yeah, but most of my background has been in what we call FCI. That’s foreign counterintelligence. So over the years, I’ve worked against what we call criteria. Countries in this country criteria countries. It’s not a secret our Russia, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, China and then the National Security Division, they’re Iran, Hezbollah, the PLO people that are working against us. And over the years, the FBI, which is the premier counterintelligence organization, has been overwhelmed by both the Chinese and the Russians coming into the United States to both steal secrets and basically bribe a lot of our leaders to go along with them, especially the Chinese. They’re brilliant at this. In fact, I came up to Georgia because I worked on a Chinese case, which, you know, the people know that the Chinese steal intellectual property, mainly technology. But let me tell you what they’ve done in Georgia. This could be a whole separate show. They have come into Georgia Chinese intelligence and they steal all of our seed tobacco, cotton, apple, soybean, whatever we grow, they come into our universities. Sometimes they co-opt professors, they give them a free trip to China and a few other perks when they get over to China. And the professors think it’s great and what the Chinese do, they take our seeds, send it back to China, re-engineer it, come back, sell it at a discount rate and put our seed businesses out of business. Wow. And that’s just one of the things they do. If they, of course, they’re involved in technology theft, they’re involved in business theft, strategic alliances. There are really our main adversary now. I mean, the Russians steal things, but they can’t get it into production. The Chinese get it into production.

Stone Payton: [00:43:04] So Brian, how would you feel if John? Quirk or on your tail if you got wind, John Quirk, who was hunting you down.

Brian Pruett: [00:43:14] I don’t think I could hide. I think that’s a movie. Catch me if you can. I think he catches you.

Stone Payton: [00:43:20] Yeah, I think so too.

John Quirk: [00:43:22] So we’re very focused on trying to get money back for our clients. We do some pro bono work mainly for seniors who don’t have a lot of money, who are a very big target of fraud. And what we try to also do is on the federal level, we have great people at the FBI and the IRS that that know how to target and develop criminal cases with the U.S. attorneys. On the local level, the economic crime units at the local police and the state police need better education and need better money because there’s so much fraud. When somebody comes to them, they usually don’t take the case. They just don’t have the resources to trace money to Switzerland or they don’t have the resources to build a case against them. And this is a very, very big problem. You know, with all the problems in the United States that we have crime and fraud is increasing dramatically.

Stone Payton: [00:44:21] Well, so does the layperson who does not know about you guys, do they typically if they’re, you know, fired up and want to do something because they’ve lost money or their mom got swindled? Do they typically go to their family lawyer first and then the lawyer connects you guys or.

John Quirk: [00:44:41] Yeah, sometimes in the U.S. they go to a lawyer in divorce cases. Of course, they go to a family lawyer who’s looking for assets and a spouse. A spouse is hiding money, right? So they contact us and then also word of mouth internationally, it’s a little different. We’re we’re very well known internationally. I spend part of the year in France. I lived in France 20 years and I’ve lived in Turkey and a number of other countries. So we know most of the people in the banking havens, whether they’re international lawyers or we do a lot of anti-counterfeiting work for companies like Gucci, Ferragamo, Polo, Louis Vuitton, Hermes, and now we used to do what’s called by bust. We we do a buy of counterfeit goods, counterfeit pharmaceuticals, counterfeit AZT, whatever. And now we just looked for assets of the counterfeiters. So if you find the assets of the counterfeiters, you can put them out of business. So in that regard, most of our business in asset location, 90 percent of our business is international. So we’re always overseas looking for money or developing courses. And in most foreign countries, they don’t have a very good system in our country. We have the Justice Department with the U.S. attorney on the federal level. And there’s an old saying a U.S. attorney can indict a ham sandwich and our laws here are very draconian. If you want to conduct fraud, go to Canada, you have penny stock fraud and Vancouver investment fraud and Toronto, the mafia in Montreal and their system for prosecution is very, very weak. Germany, what Americans do here to go to jail for would never go to jail. In Germany, their laws are just very weak and they kind of defend the businessmen. So there are major frauds overseas, but the prosecutions are not aggressive. And in our country, you have to be aggressive because if not, the fraudsters will just take over everything. I mean, we’ll never eliminate fraud, like you’ll never eliminate the mafia, you just control them from taking over the country.

Stone Payton: [00:47:13] It seems like you would never run out of work. I mean, do you even have to do sales and marketing at this point?

John Quirk: [00:47:20] We wanted to grow our company, and the type of outline that Brian Pruitt did at Lake City is exactly what we need because the reason we want to grow our company is we want to get into different areas and we want more revenue, right? Our bigger cases take a longer time to do. We might have to work on a case for two to three months locating the money, writing the filing. Yeah. Meeting people. Sometimes in many cases, we work undercover against the people. We get into their organization. Wow, we become partners with the crook. We work with them. We find out who the accountant is, who the bookkeeper is, who the who’s doing, the wire transfers. And we use some very large sources that aren’t secrets overseas. Like Swift. When we do a background, we usually get the person’s phone calls. So if he’s got 20, if Stone Payton has got 20 phone calls into the Cayman Islands, the Barclays bank, that’s a pretty good idea where Stone Payton is

Stone Payton: [00:48:25] Like, Wow. So I mean, I can tell you, enjoy the work. Is there anything in particular like when you get a certain type of case, you’re like, Oh boy, another one of those? Or do you just find joy and satisfaction and a lot of different?

John Quirk: [00:48:40] Yeah, I think it’s the curiosity of how intelligent the bad guys are and how sophisticated they are in America. Most people go to a lawyer to set up an overseas bank account, OK, and they set up. Maybe they pay 5000 bucks to set it up in Guernsey or Switzerland, but it’s not really secret from us, right? People like the drug cartels, the Russian mafia, they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to hide money, so they go into Ireland. They set up a company like the Scorpion Trust. They open up an Irish bank account. They take that, they take that documentation, they go to Guernsey, then they go to Guernsey. They go back to Gibraltar, they go to Gibraltar, they go to Switzerland and then the money will rest in a spirit to Santo in the Cook Islands. Most American businessmen or spouses cheating on their spouse don’t want to do that. They’re too puritanical, too practical. And we Americans are too practical, so they don’t want to spend more than five or ten thousand dollars hiding a bank account. Right. It’s not secret from us if we’re going after people in the drug business, which we don’t do. We know that we’re going to be defeated early on because it it costs thousands and thousands of dollars to locate there where the money rests.

Stone Payton: [00:50:04] I’m such a boring person. I have. We have my family has a couple of accounts over at Wells Fargo and here for this studio. I got a little business account over here at Banco C.K. down at the corner. Wow.

John Quirk: [00:50:19] Well, it’s getting more expensive to set up a bank account overseas. You need at least a million five to open a bank account in Switzerland. Now you need three million in Liechtenstein. Gibraltar, you can open up for a couple of thousand, but it’s not really secret if somebody’s looking for it. Guernsey’s very secret Bermuda’s secret the Caymans. The super secret Panama is not secret anymore. The Bahamas is not secret. As I mentioned, Hong Kong doesn’t really have banking secrets anymore, so Americans prefer Europe. They get a trip to Europe, they can visit Luxembourg, they can go to Switzerland, and they open up their bank account there.

Stone Payton: [00:51:02] So, so the gap if there is one, and I’m not convinced that there is much of one, but but the gap or a place to to maybe pull the lever and continue to grow and scale this thing. It occurs to me, it’s education. It’s the layperson like me, you know, just the average person knowing that there’s a resource available to us like you to help us solve these problems. If mom does get swindled or if we if we do have some sort of fraud or suspected fraud in our lives.

John Quirk: [00:51:35] Yeah, yeah. I write articles for family lawyer and divorce magazine, and one of the frustrating things that happens in divorce it is that it’s very difficult to get documents out of the spouse, whether it’s a PNL or IRS statements you’re talking about. Education lawyers need to be educated, but even judges need to be educated because judges, if you go in with a with a report and say, look at it, we found all the money in Switzerland. The judge often doesn’t know how to enforce it. Ok. And what’s happened in the divorce area, which was civil? You know, you go to a lawyer to get divorced, right? It’s now going into the criminal area and it’s good for us because we do criminal seizures in divorce cases. And what happens is the spouse lies where he is put money. You can’t really get them on what’s called fraudulent, transfer or contempt. Those are very weak civil things and lawyers often have to keep the case going. And it never ends almost where when the spouse lies in court and he hides money overseas and you get into money laundering, that’s a criminal violation in the divorce setting that’s happening more and more.

Stone Payton: [00:52:54] All right. So if our listeners want to learn more and get more educated there, clearly there are some resources they can go and read about it. But they also might want to have a conversation with you or someone on your team. What’s the best way for them to do that?

John Quirk: [00:53:06] Yeah, I can send them articles I’ve written on how to locate assets overseas. We’ve done a number of podcasts. They can contact us at our website, which is W W W Dot Asset Location Recovery Dot Com or I R G G Global BRL at AOL.com or our phone number nine five four seven four four six zero eight five. We’re a family business. My son is a cyber investigator. He has advanced degrees in hacking and cyber investigation. And my wife is former intelligence officer from Venezuela. She runs our domestic company. My older son was a U.S. attorney. He was a prosecutor. So we have a few other spiny creatures around in the company with different kinds of backgrounds. We have a former KGB guy that’s very good when it comes to things in Russia and so on. So we have that expertize to and we would. Be able to tell you early on before you spend any money, whether the case is worth doing or not.

Stone Payton: [00:54:23] It sounds like you’ve got most, if not all, the bases covered on these topics almost. Well, John Quirt, thank you so much for a fascinating, informative, wee bit scary but interesting and intriguing conversation. Really appreciate you coming down and visiting with us.

John Quirk: [00:54:41] My pleasure. Thank you.

Stone Payton: [00:54:42] All right, this is Stone Payton for our guest today and everyone here at the Business RadioX family saying we’ll see you next time on Cherokee Business Radio.

Eliane Lugassy With Witco

January 21, 2022 by Jacob Lapera

Daring to

Eliane Lugassy With Witco

00:00 /

Eliane Lugassy, CEO and Founder of Witco

After studying business law and obtaining a degree from ESSEC, Eliane began her career at Rothschild & Co in Paris on Mergers and Acquisitions. She accompanied several real estate projects, including the sale of the “Cœur Défense” building.

In 2016, she left finance to create Witco an application that improves tenant experience in all buildings while facilitating their management. Offices, residences, coworking, and co-living. Witco adapts to all types of properties thanks to flexible technology and personalised support and will be critical to businesses as WiFI is.

Connect with Eliane on LinkedIn.

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:02] Welcome to Daring To, a podcast that finds out how CEOs and entrepreneurs navigate today’s business world, the conventions they’re breaking, the challenges they faced, and the decisions that they’ve made. And lastly, just what makes them different?.

Rita Trehan: [00:00:19] Well, good afternoon, and welcome – if your – or morning or evening, wherever it may be that you’re listening and whatever time of the world that you’re in. We are a global podcast which is so exciting. And actually, my guest today is in Paris. I’m in the UK and this has been recorded in the US. So, if we ever wanted to know about global hybrid working, I guess this is it in action.

Rita Trehan: [00:00:40] I’m really pleased, actually very excited because we’ve got not only an amazing woman on our podcast today, Eliane Lugassy, who is the CEO and Co-Founder of Witco. So, kudos to you, and also you’re a woman founder of a tech company. I mean, you know, I hate to say it, but they’re few and far between, and there needs to be more of them. So, I think your story today is going to be really exciting. You are the co-founder of a company called Witco, which is an app. It’s a smart building app, as I understand it, that makes commercial and residential buildings more serviceable, more collaborative, and flexible, and enhances the experience for everybody in it.

Rita Trehan: [00:01:22] We’re going to talk a little bit about that, and particularly because in this environment today, post-COVID, hybrid working and everything, it’s probably a really relevant product at service to be talking about.

Rita Trehan: [00:01:34] But there are three things that we really want to focus on today, your journey into the entrepreneurial tech space, the challenges of the work environment today and what that brings to organizations, and why you’re so passionate about it if you write a lot about it, and clearly your product is all about that. And then lastly, a little bit about you as a leader because you’ve come a long way.

Rita Trehan: [00:01:57] So, here you are, somebody that studied law and business, like work for this amazing, really well-known brand, Rothschild and company, and worked on mergers and acquisitions. That’s not easy. You know, it’s a tough job, but it’s a big, you know, global brand, global career. And then, suddenly one day you wake up and you go, “You know what? I think I’m going to go start my own business.” Now, that’s a pretty bold decision to step out for anybody. For a woman entrepreneur, it’s three times as hard. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey into the entrepreneurial world? How easy a decision was it for you?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:02:35] Yeah, sure. Happy to. So, I think you summarized it well, you summarized it well. So, yes, I did law and then investment banking. I wanted to be always challenged and to always challenge myself to higher standards. So, I spent three years investment banking, and then every three years you are promoted. So, I got promoted and I thought, “Okay, the longer you stay, the harder it is to leave this kind of environment because you know you are well-paid and everything is done for you to stay.” On my part, I thought, “Okay, I’m still under 30 years old and I don’t have any children and any other family to support heavily.” So, it’s my shot to just try and I believe that’s something where it should be done in the future of work environment at the time.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:03:24] So, I tried, maybe I was a bit naive, but I didn’t see it as like a mountain, you know. I just thought it like, “Okay, something needs to be done.” And I think the product, I imagine, would like to do – like the bigger part of the people, not just me. And then, you know, one step at a time, I figured a product that could actually work and that people would buy. Because it’s not just something that you imagine, it’s also something that you need to have people to buy for. So, that’s how it happened. So, I think to be quite honest, I didn’t imagine it would be that hard. And I just thought, “Okay, this is a challenge. Let’s go step by step.”

Rita Trehan: [00:04:11] Well, and you know, it’s interesting that you were probably ahead of your time if you think about it really when you first thought about Witco, because, you know, we weren’t in the midst, really. We were kind of in the midst of hybrid working. There were lots of discussion about should people work from home or not work from home. The whole idea about workplace wellbeing and like individual spending a lot of their time at work. You and I both know in the corporate world we’ve spent hours in the office. It is really where most people – you know, their working life, it takes up a lot of your hours.

Rita Trehan: [00:04:44] But you were kind of ahead of the curve, really, because, you know, the challenges today are 10 times more than they were when you probably thought about the idea and people are demanding more. Individuals want a different kind of experience. You know, this whole desire for personalization is hitting everything. Technology has advanced so much. So, what is it about Witco and what it offers that you think is really helping to address the challenges that a lot of leaders and organizations are right now are really struggling with?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:05:18] I think you should take it from the beginning. Like, 2016 was not a time where it was such a struggle to find talent and retain them. But it was starting to appear because, like, especially the younger generation wanted to – wanted something different and they wanted to be considered. And they didn’t want to be like just one person inside the organization, but they wanted to have a job that matters.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:05:42] So, I think it was the beginning of this trend. And for sure, when COVID hits, it’s accelerated this trend. But it started, like, to me in 2015, 16, especially when we were – they said the same thing at the time was a workplace should be an experience. So, this was the beginning. But for sure, the shortage of talent and the shift towards some, like a workplace that is more flexible and also a way of managing people changed over time. And I think maybe the consecration was more like during COVID for sure because everything had to be changed so quickly.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:06:19] So, yes, it’s accelerated. But the trend already existed, in my opinion. And for my part, I just thought, okay, you guys, like my employer was expecting so much from me that in return I wanted a software that was very easy to use. And that will also make me more efficient because I don’t have time to lose, to chase someone to fix the incidents, the [inaudible] that doesn’t work. If I forgot my badge, I wanted someone, like just – why can’t I just use an app? I can’t enter a building, or, no, I can’t enter like a train or a plane with the QR code that I could not without my phone. It was like entering a building. So, why? So, I just wanted to remove all those pains that were not having me focused on my work.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:07:07] And then, as you mentioned, COVID raised other concerns. Meaning, how do I manage a workplace that is not just on sites? And, how do I make sure they stay engaged?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:07:21] So, this app is not just only to make sure that people are efficient, but also to make sure that they stay engaged because they are part of a community. They are part of a company, and the company’s culture was before only made of the workplace. But tomorrow is, yes, the workplace, but not only. You need to keep this link between the company and the employees. And this is what we are trying to do also with this app.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:07:44] And, when they have to go to the office, it’s very easy to use. They know where they will sit. This is also one of the trouble and you say, okay, I don’t have my desk anymore, but that’s fine because I know that – okay, I know who is on the right, on the left today, so I can book this place. I will be surrounded by people I know, or maybe this is people that don’t know. That’s great because this is an opportunity for me also to meet new people that I can’t do at home.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:08:11] So, this is all the thing about H.R. management – the H.R. people that need to think of how to – how do I reorganize the workplace and how do I make sure people in place are still engaged and they are still happy to be part of this culture and this company. And, we are trying to help them with this app.

Rita Trehan: [00:08:36] What’s really interesting I think about when you talk about it, I mean, you bring up the H.R. organization and, you know, it warms my heart to hear, you know, you’re making that connection between the role of like something that is about organization productivity, it’s about engagement, it’s about experience and connecting it to the H.R. function. Because often people would go like, “Well, that sounds like – isn’t that to do with like how you manage the building? Isn’t that about how you like organize meetings and that?” But actually, it doesn’t sound, but that’s what you’re trying to get at. It sounds like you’re trying to get at something much deeper than that about making the workplace, where people can be the best that they can.

Rita Trehan: [00:09:15] And, I guess it’s a kind of a wake-up call for H.R. And I’ll quote you in something that you said that really struck me, that which was around the 2022 challenges. We are now in 2022 and we are right at the start of it. The challenge now is to design a hybrid model that meets employee expectations while maintaining team cohesion and motivation. 2022 will be an exercise in empathy. I’m really curious about that. However, balancing the needs of your team with the bottom line.

Rita Trehan: [00:09:46] What’s your call to H.R.? Because I don’t see any of them stepping up, and they surely should be in highlighting what you are trying to bring to the forefront, I think, with Witco, which is like we’re losing a lot of productivity and we’re also losing a lot of what people can bring and to the experience themselves, so they bring themselves to work and do the best that they can. I mean, how do you get that message across to an organization?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:10:13] In my opinion, and especially today, H.R. managers understood that things need to change the way people are managed and the way the company culture is spread. So, I think it is a matter more of how are we going to organize ourselves because everything has changed so quickly. That’s for sure. We are experiencing a phase where there will be struggling.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:10:43] You know, at the beginning they were thinking maybe it’s just the beginning of COVID. In six months, it will be over with it. And now, they’re realizing even when COVID will be over, things won’t go back to normal for most of the companies if they want to hire and retain tenants. So, it’s a big shift, and I need to admit also that most of the time the clients that we are having, or even the prospects we are talking to, they are really listening to what is going on in the market and what can be done in these aspects.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:11:16] And, again, it’s as you said and I mentioned, it is a balance between having people productive. So, it’s not just to stay home to relax and to not be as productive, but it’s also a way of, okay, I trust them, and to keep like to have objectives and not just hours you put in the office, and you say, “Okay, your hours, your objectives for this quarter. This is this. We have check-ins regularly and then I trust you to do your best and to choose whether it is better for you to go to the office, to see other employees, other people in your department because you also need collaboration and the time also you need to have to work for deep work at home and focus on it to deliver on time.”

Eliane Lugassy: [00:12:06] So, to me, it’s a combination of trust and also control. You know, you check, but you also need to trust, and I think this is moving into the right direction. And also, the managers need also shifts. It’s not just the H.R. It’s also the managers.

Rita Trehan: [00:12:24] Yeah. So, how are you helping organizations get value from the insights that Witco can bring by having sort of like this seamless integration rather than having like, you know, 15 different ways to book a meeting room, communicate with somebody, know if somebody is in town or not, whether you’re working from home or not. I mean, how are you providing insights that are helping them to make good decisions, not just about the workplace, but obviously about the work experience as well? We know that, you know, right now that’s really important. How is your product helping to do that?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:12:59] Yeah. So, the idea is to be – to have this single app where it’s become like the companion of the employees. So, through this app, they should be able to have all the services available to them and very easy to use. So, it could be a mapping where I could see, “Okay, where should I sit today?” And then, I click on it and I book the desk for the week, depending on the limitations and also the settings of our clients.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:13:24] They can also say, “Oh, okay. I’m coming to the office tomorrow. Who will be attending to?” So, that’s interesting. So, I know that for lunch, I won’t be alone because what we are seeing today is people coming to the office, but the floor is empty. So, why am I coming? Why am I commuting for an hour if at the end of the day it’s the same as working from home?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:13:43] So, what we’re trying to say is, okay, you’re coming tomorrow, let’s book meetings because you need to work with other people. And also, if you don’t have anyone, like, physically near you, at least you know who is attending today, and you can also break the ice and say, “Oh, hi. We don’t know each other specifically, but maybe we can have lunch together.” And also, again, it brings humanity on top of what is happening as well. So, just taking maybe this COVID situation as an opportunity also to do things differently and also to meet new people and to what are the [inaudible] also – so people you will not maybe meet in real life or maybe not come across.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:14:21] So, this is what we are trying to do for employees, but also for H.R. managers where they can see the occupancy rates of the buildings and, for instance, organize better, for instance, the shifts of the teams. And also, for instance, what we do for us is we make sure that at the same day, we need to have a sales team present the same day as the developers, so they interact with each other and it’s like one team, and we are – every time we make sure it’s not just every day, the same people, the same time at the office, but, for instance, it’s product one day with CSM and et cetera, et cetera.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:14:56] So, also with this app, they manage to say, okay, who is coming, who is not coming in terms of teams and foster the collaboration and when, for instance, you see someone like a team never coming to the office, it’s also a way of saying, “Oh, what is going on?” So, you have like a dashboard to see what is going on and not just rely on managers telling you, yes, it’s perfect. Everything is going great. So, we start –

Rita Trehan: [00:15:20] But I guess it’s assuming – it’s providing me with some insights on employee behavior and sort of like experience [inaudible]

Eliane Lugassy: [00:15:26] And engagement as well.

Rita Trehan: [00:15:29] Yeah,

Eliane Lugassy: [00:15:29] Yeah.

Rita Trehan: [00:15:30] So, let’s talk a little bit about this. You know, do you think the hybrid environment is here to stay? I mean, there’s been a lot of – you know, we can read all the stats. You know, we can we see that a lot of people are, particularly among young people, the stats are saying like mental health of being isolated, of not being with other people is a massive – has had a massive effect. There are others that are saying, forget the workplace. Everybody likes working at home. We’re going to work from home. Offices go away. What’s your view? I mean, it’s a big challenge right now. How do you bridge that gap with what you’re trying to do?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:16:05] I do believe hybrid work is here to stay. Definitely. For how long? I will not comment on that, but for sure, it’s – will not going to – will not going to disappear like after the COVID period, and especially because I think people are eager for flexibility. And, you know, some people can be willing to come every day in the office because they feel better, you know, being surrounded by people, the energy that comes with it and also because this is the way they like to work. And that’s definitely fine. And flexibility needs to also say, “Okay. You want to come in every day. This is possible.” We’re not just asking you to leave the office two or three days a week because we have budget constraints. No, I don’t think this is a signal we need to send.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:16:51] And, at the same time, I think there should be limits where like you need to see employees once in a while and if, for instance, someone never wants to come, it’s an issue, in my opinion, because otherwise, you know, you don’t create a culture with committed people attached to the company and at some point, you need to see them.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:17:10] So, I don’t believe in fully remote teams. I don’t believe at some point you are as efficient because collaboration is key, and to be efficient in collaboration, you need to see people. And, there is like so many, so much communication that is not verbal. That is like – so it is necessary to have physical meetings and especially, I believe, for junior people and for women. We saw that it was not the best way to operate.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:17:44] Like, especially like for younger people, you need to – you know, you have a way of replicating what you saw that you can’t do when it’s just through Zoom. So, you’re learning curve is not the same. So, again, I think a mix of on sites and working from home is best. And, everyone needs to also think, how do I organize myself tomorrow? And, if, for instance, this hybridization is not perfect, they need to know themselves and maybe ask for more flexibility. Can I come in every day or can I come a little less for this period of time because I have this and this? But don’t worry, in terms of objectives, I will be there.

Rita Trehan: [00:18:22] So, it sounds like, you know, you’re trying to address a couple of things there. I mean, you also talked about like the women’s piece. There’s been a lot of discussion about proximity bias and by not being in the office. Women are – you know, unfortunately, I’m working from home. Like, traditional stereotypes are coming back because women are at home now and they are being kind of pushed back into that traditional role of juggler of all and therefore not necessarily viewed from a company perspective as in the same way. They are not seen, not heard kind of thing. And it’s like, “Oh, will you be able to cope with all of this?”

Rita Trehan: [00:19:01] So, that’s something I guess that we need to address and that hopefully is sort of captured in some of the technology and data that you’ll be able to provide with your product.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:19:10] Yeah. Sorry.

Rita Trehan: [00:19:14] No, go on, carry on.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:19:15] Yeah. We try to help with this product for sure, but at some point, it’s also how you use it and especially, for instance, for women. That’s why I thought for me, we need to have like a minimum where someone can say, I’m never coming back. You know, I’m not coming. Because we need to see also people. And if, for instance, women are told you guys we expect you to come in in the office, then you know, you mitigate this risk of, for instance, women just saying, “Oh, yes, but I have other things I prefer to stay home.” No. We forced you to come because we want you to feel part of the company and we need to see your face as well so that you are not disadvantaged because you are not seen by the top management. So, at some point, that’s why also like limitations, like limits to – a principle needs to be also set.

Rita Trehan: [00:20:08] So, let’s talk a bit. I mean, a lot of this is also about how you lead, right? It’s about the leadership, so commitment to understanding the importance of this, and then actually applying that using the technology and applying that in ways that demonstrates good leadership.

Rita Trehan: [00:20:22] Let’s talk about a little bit. Let’s kind of switch gears a little bit and talk about you as a leader. I mean, you know, woman entrepreneur in the tech industry and leaders don’t know yet, but, you know, you raised 14 million dollars of funding. I mean, that’s pretty hard to do for anybody. Is it more difficult as a woman to go and try and raise that money, or do you think that the issues and the challenges are the same?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:20:49] I would go against figures if I were to tell you that these are the same for women and men. I would say it can be harder, but I will not pretend it was that hard for me, at least now, because when we raise, like, a few months ago, we had product-market fit and we had good figures. And then, for sure, I think from my investment banking product, I know how to talk to men. You know, it’s like you need to learn how the system works, and then you fit right into it, so you need to show confidence.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:21:22] And I think where we are lacking as women is, we try to under-promise and overdeliver. But when you under-promise, like, and you are against other men saying, yes, I can just go to the moon and I will make you a billion-dollar company in five years. And when you have like a woman next door and saying, yes, I would try to do my best, et cetera, you are not selling your stuff as well as men. And, I think that’s where we are lacking as women. It’s confidence. So, I would urge them if I were to give some advice is just to feel confident and a bit more than we are used to do.

Rita Trehan: [00:22:05] I love the phrase. Like, you know, underpromote and overdeliver. I think, you know, if there’s a phrase that the women listeners and men listeners on the podcast this week for them just to go back and like just keep that in their mind. You know, am I underpromoting and overdelivering? And perhaps, you know, I need to start overpromoting.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:22:26] That great.

Rita Trehan: [00:22:26] And I think that’s a great nugget of insight. But tell me, you know, you started with a team of five. It’s quite good when it’s just a really small team. It’s something that a lot of companies when they first start and it’s a small team. Everybody knows everybody. Everybody’s like geared up. We’ve all got the same passion. But, you know, success comes with growth, and with growth comes challenges of more people. And suddenly, there isn’t just five people that know everything. You’re now a team of 50. But tell me about some of the challenges of that, about finding the right people, the finding the right talent, building that team. What had been some of the highlights and sort of lessons learned from that for you?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:23:07] Yeah. Building a team and finding the right talents, to me, are the hardest parts, and especially because for tech companies, talents are key. You can’t do anything without the right talent, so they are the core of what we are trying to build. We don’t have any machines, et cetera. So, yes, that’s key.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:23:23] I would say values are also so important to make sure you hire – even if you hire more and more people, then we are all sticking to the right values because we believe in them and we understand each other. So, first, I would say values and the second aspect I would say over-communicate to your team and not just the CEO, but also the managers to the team to convey the mission, what are we doing. And I think this is the purpose of what we are doing, the mission that is driving us that make people motivated to come engage and willing to do their best.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:24:01] And I think I’m really in bad blood at the moment and what I feel that what struck me is that even if, you know, the machines were not working, people were so into it because they were thinking, “Okay, we are changing the health industry. We will not have used ones are like leaving us too soon because we didn’t have the means of detecting if they had any health issues, et cetera.” So, that’s why so many people just kept going, even if they were like so many struggles inside the company. And, I feel like this is so right because starting from scratch is hard and we will have obstacles all the time. But if we continue to see the bigger picture, okay, why am I doing this? What is the endgame to this? And, you have a healthy corporate culture, then I feel people can do their best and you can also thrive. So, I would say communicate the culture and make sure you hire people with the same values as you.

Rita Trehan: [00:25:04] Why do you think so many organizations struggle with that? I mean, like something that, you know.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:25:09] Because it’s so hard.

Rita Trehan: [00:25:11] Why is it so hard? Like, you know, why is it you think so hard? What is it that makes it so hard? I mean, it’s like, we know it. CEOs around the world say one of their biggest – always one of their top three concerns is like finding the right talent for their growth plans, making sure they’ve got the right culture. And why is it so difficult?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:25:32] I think because the culture is something – is evolving, and that’s also you need to materialize. It’s not just, yes, we want to work hard and we want to have, I don’t know, honest people, et cetera, et cetera. You need to materialize it on a day-to-day basis. Otherwise, it’s just values, but they are, like, not concrete.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:25:52] And that’s the most difficult part is on a day-to-day to repeat and also to feel, “Okay. Am I implementing those values? And, am I part of something bigger, and am I on this right track?” So, I would say once values are just -for one, values are great, but then we need to incarnate them.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:26:15] And the second part, especially today, is like there are more money than talents, to be honest. Like, it’s hard. Like, we are fighting for the right people to join our teams. And, only CEOs saying this is a lot of money is out there and you’re struggling because you are not like a company of five where you can promise, like, more shares and more proximity with the founders, et cetera, but we are not like a [inaudible] yet. Soon to be. So, we can’t say, “Oh, yes, you would be part of like the hottest companies in the world,” because we’re not there yet. We are in the middle. So, how do I engage them while I am in the middle?

Rita Trehan: [00:26:57] So, I guess a lot of that must, you know, I mean, money is a factor. We know that. But often the research says it’s more than that. It’s about the experience that they get or the manager that they work for. I mean, is there – you know, there’s a lot going on right now with the four-day working week. We’re seeing loads of people also talking about the great resignation. People are leaving [inaudible] the companies that they work for. People are making different decisions.

Rita Trehan: [00:27:21] But let’s start in the four-day working week. I think you and I might have a different view on this. So, you know, we’ve just piloted in the UK here. They have just piloted – a certain number of companies have gone to a four-day working week. There’s been lots of discussions. Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? You know, obviously, an app like Witco could help from that perspective, but fundamentally it comes back to some of the things that you know your product was based on. Is it a good thing or not?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:27:46] I don’t know what your stance is, but I would say, in my opinion, it’s not. I don’t think that people [inaudible] intend to work less. But, again, the intent to work on something that matters. And if you tell them, if you work five days a week but this is for something bigger than you, they might do it more easily. For sure, if it’s something that you’re doing, you know, automatically and you don’t exactly know what you are doing it, it’s boring and you just want to leave work. What I’m saying don’t apply, but this is [inaudible] right, but this is what managers are for. They need to inspire the workforce, not to work less, but to work better and to understand why they work.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:28:35] So, that’s why I think – like, maybe also because I’m a heavy worker, I like to work a lot, but also because I enjoy it. So, that’s why I think – the issue is not if we work too much is are we enjoying what we do? And, when you enjoy what you do, it’s like it’s become a passion. You don’t see the line between pleasure and work, but that’s the point. If you don’t really feel, okay, I’m doing something that I enjoy. For sure, you will want to work less. So my point is.

Rita Trehan: [00:29:04] So, maybe they’re missing the point. Maybe we’re missing the point. It isn’t about a four-day working week. It isn’t about five-day working week. It isn’t about a seven-day working week. Maybe it’s back to what you said at the beginning. It’s about trust. Like giving people – like, you know, there’s a certain amount of work to be done. Trust the people that they’re going to get the work done in the hours that are allocated and worry less about is it a four-day working week or a five-day working week. And, are people being productive and being as efficient and as effective and giving their best at work? I don’t know, but you’ve actually prompted me to think like actually is the problem, really, not about the hours, but about, like, how you create the work environment and that is engaging enough that people want to deliver and want to feel part something [inaudible]. I don’t know. Like, you know.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:29:50] Yeah, but –

Rita Trehan: [00:29:51] Like, maybe we’ve been addressing the wrong problem.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:29:54] Maybe.

Rita Trehan: [00:29:55] Yeah.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:29:55] At some point, again, I do believe, especially for startups, that we are judged and the whole system is based on pace and rapidity. And at some point, like, even if you are a leader, at some point you need to put in the hours. And I would – the metaphor I would use is you don’t become a champion by going less to the court. You go more and more than everybody else. And this is how you stand up.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:30:23] And at some point, depending on the kind of companies you are in, I didn’t pick which side because I wanted to work less. I wanted to be so much challenged. Like, it was something I was looking for. And, if at some point you need or you want to attract the best ones, maybe you will want – you would say, okay, I will not go to this company because, okay, the company’s culture is different than mine. And if I want to learn a lot and, yes, maybe it was very challenging, as I said. But on the other side, I learned so much so quickly.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:30:53] So, again, to me, it depends on also the company size and stability, I don’t know. But, especially for tech companies, you need to go so fast to take the market that if you just – even if, like, in four days, to me, I can’t do anything and I work so like long hours. So, I’m not saying that everyone should be like me, especially like CEOs, it’s particular. But at some point, if you want to overachieve, you need to do more than average people, average [inaudible].

Rita Trehan: [00:31:24] I guess that’s how entrepreneurs have shown their difference, the ones that have the staying power to understand, you know, probably get the right talent, make sure you’ve got the right people on board to help you get there, and be really passionate about what you do. I mean, you’re clearly, like, very passionate about what you do.

Rita Trehan: [00:31:42] I have one last question, well two, actually. There’s something else that you said that really resonated and I think will resonate with our listeners, which is, you’ve said the challenge of a workplace is that we need a society where you can progress by your own merit. It saddens me when the system seems broken due to gender or social discrimination.

Rita Trehan: [00:32:03] You talk a lot about meritocracy. So, tell me like, what does that mean to you? I mean, it’s obviously that statement, that sentence like clearly is something that comes from a deep self-belief, and it’s very powerful. And I think it hits at the heart of what a lot of people, individuals experience today, and the need for inclusive cultures has never been more so and I mean inclusivity in its broadest sense. Tell me a little bit about meritocracy and what that means for you.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:32:31] Yeah. Yeah. To me, it’s something very – that I strongly believe in, especially because I think I’m an illustration of it. I think if you, again, work hard, you can achieve it but by your own merits. So, I tend to say the same to my team. So, you will have the place that you will take and that you will deserve and not because for some like network or some connection that you’ve made. That’s not how we operate.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:33:03] So, for sure, you can’t treat people exactly the same way depending on the background. But as much as possible, I expect people to be treated fairly and objectively. And when, you know, when we talked about [inaudible], this is what they are for. It is not like a subjective review. It’s objective. “Okay. What did you do? What did you bring to the table so I can promote or not promote?”

Eliane Lugassy: [00:33:31] So, yes, to me this is the core of every organization and once – and when meritocracy is broken, this is very hard to keep people motivated because, you know, what’s the point? I didn’t get promoted, but it is not based on my merits, on my demerits. It’s because I was not like friends with my manager. So, that’s not fair.

Rita Trehan: [00:33:53] So, it’s a really powerful insight. So, I ask every individual who comes on the podcast to share one daring to moment. So, what’s your daring to moment? [Inaudible] you’re daring to do going in the future, something that you’ve done. But what one daring to moment would you share with our listeners about you?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:34:12] Could you please rephrase your question?

Rita Trehan: [00:34:13] Yes, so daring to. What are you daring to try and do, pushing the boundaries of something? And, it could be something that you’ve done, something that you have an ambition to do that you could share with the listeners today.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:34:29] Is it daring to like something I avoid or something that is very challenging for me?

Rita Trehan: [00:34:33] Very challenging like that you want to do, that you want to change. I’m daring to change this or I’m daring to challenge something, or I’m daring to push the boundaries in some way.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:34:44] I would say, keep growing and again have my team as motivated as they want. Again, this is so hard and the value of this company is talent, so, you know, the bigger we are, the harder it is to stay close to them. And also with this COVID situation, where we are like all in the office and certainly not in the office, and then like everything is changing all the time, to me, yeah, the most challenging part is to keep them motivated and so they know what they are doing and why they are doing it, especially [inaudible] ambitious people, you need to fit them all the time. Otherwise, they get bored and, like, suddenly they are not here anymore. So, yeah, I would say that. Does that answer the question? I’m sorry [inaudible].

Rita Trehan: [00:35:33] Yeah. It’s great. And, I guess, you know, I think, you know, what I would end on with the listeners is, you know, Witco. I mean, you’ve shown how valuable it is in the countries that you serve. But the funding that – the series A funding that you’ve raised has really highlighted that this is a global issue, that there is a, you know, there’s a demand for it globally. So, you’re already expanding in the UK. This is not a, you know, a geographical-specific issue around the workplace of the future. So, it sounds like this is something that could be really helpful to organizations. And we do have a global listening – listener-based, so it’d be great for them to listen into this.

Rita Trehan: [00:36:10] So, if they want to find out more about what you’re doing about you, the company, how do they do that? Website, LinkedIn, Twitter? What’s the best way for them to know more?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:36:19] Yeah. Yeah. They can ask for a demo on our website or just information, or they can also contact me through LinkedIn. I’m very responsive, so we’ll be happy [inaudible].

Rita Trehan: [00:36:28] Okay. And your website address, what’s that? If they – what’s the website address?

Eliane Lugassy: [00:36:32] Yeah. witco.io. So, w-w-w, and, yeah, witco.io.

Rita Trehan: [00:36:37] Great. Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure to listen to you. You are very passionate about what you do. You can hear it as you speak. I think some of – you know, ahead of your time in coming up with with a, you know, an app that it’s only needed that goes beyond just sort of like, you know, how you manage but really gets the whole of employee experience. So, it’s been great having you as a guest.

Eliane Lugassy: [00:36:58] Thank you.

Rita Trehan: [00:36:58] If you want to know more about DARE Worldwide, then you can find out more on our website, www.dareworldwide.com. Also, check out our latest inclusivity index. It’s a diagnostic that has been endorsed by MIT and how you can take your organization from being purpose-driven to inclusivity-driven. It’s the future of where organizations go.

Rita Trehan: [00:37:19] So, thank you for listening. If you enjoyed it, please leave a comment, and look forward to seeing you again soon.

Rita Trehan: [00:37:25] Thanks for listening. Enjoyed the conversation? Make sure you subscribe so you don’t miss out on future episodes of Daring To. Also, check out our website, dareworldwide.com, for some great resources around the business in general, leadership, and how to bring about change. See you next time.

Sara Stender Delaney With Sarilla

January 19, 2022 by Jacob Lapera

GWBC Radio

Sara Stender Delaney With Sarilla

00:00 /

Sara Stender Delaney, CEO & Founder at Sarilla, Ted Speaker, Award Winning Beverage Maker, Change Agent & Social Entrepreneur

Sara is the Founder of the international nonprofit Africa Healing Exchange (AHE) and the Founding CEO of 3 Mountains, a social enterprise building an innovative model for driving institutional and social change. 3 Mountains owns two CPG brands, Sarilla Sparkling and Tîma Tea, and partners with women Genocide Survivors in Rwanda. Together they are building Ubuzima Healing Garden farm, where they grow healing and regenerative botanicals that can be used in teas and other products.

Sara is a passionate global activist and social entrepreneur and is building these organizations with the intention of making a great positive impact on all people involved. She has been working with the people of Rwanda for over decade, creating a vehicle that would support total health for marginalized communities, offering resources for women to overcome trauma and opportunities to lift themselves out of poverty.

As a survivor herself, she brings an authentic and inspired message to everyone she meets, and in her recent Ted Talk, Sara emphasizes how community is the number one resource we have to overcome absolutely anything.

Sara has been leading curated tours to East Africa since 2012, and is developing a farm in Rwanda in partnership with a group of 55 women who go by “Umutuzo” which means Resilience. Together they are building an integrated supply chain, growing healing botanicals that can be used in teas, native medicinals, and for export to generate sustainable income and employment.

Sara studied psychology as a university student and graduated with a Bachelors degree in Business Management and French from Simmons College in Boston. Feeling unfulfilled by the corporate finance track, she went on to study responsible business and nonprofit development, with a concentration in Leadership and Change, earning a Masters degree in Organizational Management from the School of International Training (SIT), where the Peace Corps was founded. She completed the Mama Hope Global Executive Fellowship, and holds an international business certification from Grande Ecole du Commerce in Grenoble, France.

Sara is an experienced public speaker, spokesperson, fundraiser and writer.

Connect with Sara on LinkedIn and follow Sarilla on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

Their mission is to end violence against women
How to know if your products have been produced ethically
The most important values from consumers and employees

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:04] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia, it’s time for GWBC Radio’s Open for Business. Now, here’s your host.

Stone Payton: [00:00:18] Welcome to another exciting and informative edition of GWBC Open for Business Radio. Stone Payton here with you this afternoon, and you guys are in for a real treat. Please join me in welcoming to the broadcast founder with Sarilla, Miss Sara Delaney. How are you?

Sara Delaney: [00:00:37] Hi, Stone. I’m great. How are you today?

Stone Payton: [00:00:38] I am doing well, delighted to get a chance to visit with you and learn about the work that you’re up to. In fact, that’s probably a good place to start. Could you give us a little primer, mission purpose? What are you out there trying to do for folks?

Sara Delaney: [00:00:55] Sure. Well, we are a proud member of WeBank and we’re based in Asheville, North Carolina. I’m the founder of Sarilla, which is a social enterprise. I’ve been working with people in Rwanda since 2007. So, Rwanda is a small country in East Africa, producing some of the best tea in the world, among many other things, and really served as an inspirational country that I actually used to live in and really changed my life.

Sara Delaney: [00:01:28] I came back to the U.S. and started a nonprofit foundation, which we still operate, to provide services for women who have a history of trauma. We have a resiliency program through that foundation, and we also offer seed funding and emergency relief for different issues specifically related to trauma, poverty, substance abuse, and addiction.

Sara Delaney: [00:01:55] But I started Sarilla as really the economic driver, so we’ve got this amazing sparkling beverage, which is 0% alcohol. The main ingredient I use in that is Rwandan tea. We use the whole tea leaf. So, you’re getting the health benefits, the rich flavor. We don’t use any powders or syrups or refined sugar, so it’s better for you. It’s better for the environment and better for our partners in Rwanda.

Sara Delaney: [00:02:26] So, that’s our primary product line. We’re selling that throughout the U.S. now, mainly on the East Coast. We have it in cans, and we’re getting ready to launch our kegs again, which we started to do right before the pandemic shutdown. But I’m super excited to get our tea on top, back into breweries, bars, and restaurants, and we’re starting to work with college campuses as well. My mission for 2022 is to get into as many bars, especially in college towns, where wherever alcohol is served, we want Sarilla to be served too.

Stone Payton: [00:03:06] Well, you certainly have a lot of irons in the fire as my mother would say. You’re accomplishing a great deal with this vehicle. What drove you toward the beverage industry?

Sara Delaney: [00:03:20] Yeah. Well, I am in recovery myself. I’m sober 15 and a half years. I got sober in my 20s, and alcohol really caused a lot of problems in my life and definitely generationally in my family. And so, I just was really excited to kind of delve into living a sober life that was clean and healthy but also, like, full of fun. And when I quit drinking, I was just kind of – I was concerned, right? That’s really, to put it mildly. But I was concerned about the lack of choices. I was concerned about how I would socialize.

Sara Delaney: [00:04:05] I remember thinking, I was not married at the time, and I just remember thinking, “What am I going to drink on my wedding day if I can’t have champagne?” And so, that was kind of a driver, I would say, to really create like a fun, celebratory beverage that, you know, felt like I was included. And I’m just, I’m excited and heartened to know about how many people are choosing, whether it’s just for health reasons or addiction reasons or, you know, just kind of testing the waters and maybe drinking a little bit less alcohol these days. There’s a lot of people who are going that route and choosing that lifestyle, but still want to be social and have a good time and want something fun to drink besides like chlorinated club soda or sugary sodas or juices, you know.

Sara Delaney: [00:04:58] So that was like a big personal motivator, and I also saw the market opportunity there and kind of where things were trending and then combine that with my passion and love for Rwanda and then the fact that I had, like, this amazing ingredient with me. I started working with the tea to make a beverage, and I went to the Southeast Beverage Institute here, learned how to keg and create a carbonated beverage. And that’s kind of how we got started. So, I just did my proof of concept here locally in Asheville, had a few kegs at a couple of events and a couple of breweries, and then it just went from there.

Stone Payton: [00:05:37] Well, what an exciting time for you, and what an inspiring story. For those of you who are listening to this interview on-demand, we’re actually having this conversation in mid-January of 2022. And as I understand it, Sara, I think I saw this in the notes, you don’t really believe in New Year’s resolutions, do you?

Sara Delaney: [00:06:01] Well, no. I mean, it’s not that I don’t believe in it. You know, it’s just not for me.

Stone Payton: [00:06:07] Yeah.

Sara Delaney: [00:06:08] I’d say, you know, if I were going to set like an intention today, it would be – because my son and I were – it’s snowing here today and it was snowy yesterday and so we were outside sledding. And I’m probably just going to take actually tomorrow off. We’re going to go snowboarding for the first time this season. And I think, if anything, that’s one of my big intentions is just to, like, play more and carve out time just to have fun or just to do nothing and just be unscheduled.

Sara Delaney: [00:06:37] But, I kind of like, I think, you know, having, you know, being an ex-drinker and someone who just kind of woke up every day and said that I was going to not drink today, and then by 5 o’clock, I’d be drinking again. That was my past, and I just really saw, like, New Year’s resolutions as a setup for failure.

Sara Delaney: [00:06:56] But, like, I think setting intentions and goals is certainly important. I think it’s been real tough these past two years for us to really make a plan and, like, stay with it just because every day, I don’t know about you, but my plans and my schedules and meetings getting canceled and people getting sick, like tradeshows getting canceled, it’s just you never know what the next day is going to bring. So, I’m all about one day at a time and living life in the present. At the same time, I’m the business owner, so of course, I need a plan and set projections and goals and do the metrics and all that. So, I think there’s a real balance there.

Sara Delaney: [00:07:40] But if we are going to set resolutions or goals, I think it’s really important that they are somehow measurable and that we’re, you know, kind of, like, checking in, like that we have a specific technique, you know, that’s going to help us get to that place.

Sara Delaney: [00:07:59] I was just on a meeting this morning with Daniel in Rwanda. He’s an employee there and he’s on the ground at our farm there. And we were talking about smart goals and like how to make sure that every goal we have has some kind of metrics attached to it so we know we’re making progress, but also so we’re setting ourselves up for success rather than just keep it kind of open ended. Like, I’m going to try better. I’m going to, you know, improve in this way. But it’s like, well, how? You know, how?

Sara Delaney: [00:08:31] So, going back to what I said about, you know, for anyone who’s like “I’m going to quit drinking today,” or “I’m going to quit eating sugar,” or whatever, that, you know, I’m going to lose 10 pounds resolution is like, well, what’s one specific step that you can take today to get closer to that idea and then kind of keep circling back to what’s the reason behind it? Like, do you think it’s going to make you feel better or look better or be happier and, like, what’s behind that and kind of keep pulling the curtain back?

Stone Payton: [00:09:00] Well, I think I hear in your description that the key really is getting very clear about the why, those small steps, and establishing the habits that lead to those outcomes. Huh?

Sara Delaney: [00:09:15] Yeah, good point, the habits. It’s super important.

Stone Payton: [00:09:18] So, as I understand it, one very critical mission for you, and it’s a broad one, is to end violence against women. Can you speak more to that?

Sara Delaney: [00:09:29] Sure. I’ve been doing a lot of research lately looking at the statistics, which are pretty horrific about the percentage of sexual crimes and specifically rape that have alcohol or drugs somehow involved. And there’s just, you know, some really crazy stats that I’d be happy to share. But, like, one of them is over half of rapes in this country happen when alcohol is involved. And, again, over half of the women who experience rape the first time are in college or under the age of 18. And when a woman or young woman or girl is raped under the age of 18, she’s twice as likely to be raped again. And, I myself experienced rape once in high school and once in college, and both times alcohol was involved on one side or the other or both.

Sara Delaney: [00:10:36] So, for me, it’s very personal. I want to do everything I can to get these numbers down. And I do believe that, again, back to my goal of having Sarilla wherever alcohol is served, you know, that’s just one thing we can do but also partnering with community organizations and nonprofits to make sure the tools are in place for the venues, for example, that are serving alcohol. Like, what are the resources they have to help in the preventative measures? And then, what are the resources, let’s say, on college campuses? What are the resources for women who are recovering from this kind of a trauma? So, wherever possible, I want to be involved in the communities where we’re working in order to help this from happening to other young women.

Stone Payton: [00:11:33] You use the moniker or the phrase early in the conversations I think, social enterprise. Is that a formal designation? Is it just reflective of some disciplines that you try to exercise? Say a little bit more about that.

Sara Delaney: [00:11:50] Oh, that’s a great question. Social enterprise to me is really – it’s not necessarily a third-party audit or a certification, but we are pursuing benefit corporation status, which is a pretty rigorous program to go through with a lot of metrics that you have to hit to show the commitment to more than just a profit-making organization. So, social enterprise to me really means that we’re committed to the triple bottom line.

Sara Delaney: [00:12:21] So, yes, we’re a for-profit organization, but we also are very involved in social initiatives. We have a social mission that goes along with our profit-making mission. Of course, we are accountable to investors. At the same time, we do have a nonprofit foundation attached to our business and we want to do everything we can to do good in the world, with the money that we do make.

Stone Payton: [00:12:50] So, as part of that, I think many organizations, and I think I saw in the notes where this is the case with yours, that you make a real effort to make sure that your products are produced ethically. I’d love to hear a little bit more about what that means, produced ethically and in a more technical, tactical kind of level. I mean, how do you know? How do you make sure that that’s what’s happening?

Sara Delaney: [00:13:17] Right. So, in my 20s, I worked on the fair trade side of things, so I worked with the agencies that certified brands and producers as being fair trade. I also worked with some other community organizations that really tried to make sure that businesses were operating in an ethical way. So, it depends on what the industry is. But there’s ethics related to, of course, treatment of people, treatment of the environment, animals, the whole nine yards.

Sara Delaney: [00:13:58] The fair trade certification system, I think, is a great starting point for businesses that are sourcing certain ingredients that are fair trade certifiable, but it’s not enough. It’s kind of scratching the surface there of, like, really basic elements that need to be in place to be sure your business partnerships are ethical on a global level when you’re sourcing ingredients from developing countries specifically. So, we do participate in that system.

Sara Delaney: [00:14:32] We also are building our own farm to grow our own ingredients and partnering with 55 women in Rwanda who are part owners in this business there where we’re growing botanicals that can be blended into an herbal tea product that we sell in Rwanda. And then, we’re also going to be importing the herbals to use in future Sarilla flavors.

Sara Delaney: [00:14:56] And so, that I feel like is a model that goes beyond fair trade, where we’re truly partnering with the people growing, the ingredients that we’re using in this manufactured product, making sure that there’s upward mobility, that there’s seed funding if they want to start their own business, that they have access to resources that any employee in the U.S. should have access to, that they have access to information, that they’re empowered with the information that we have on this side as well.

Sara Delaney: [00:15:30] And, we’re also using regenerative agriculture processes and are growing, so anything we can do to really help the climate change crisis. I do believe that that’s the primary farming method that we all need to really start using in order to not only – not only stop the climate change crisis but also to potentially turn around the damage that’s already been done to the planet.

Stone Payton: [00:16:06] This must be, and I don’t mean to suggest for one minute that your work doesn’t have its own set of challenges. I’m sure it does, but this must be incredibly rewarding work.

Sara Delaney: [00:16:20] Yeah. It really is, Stone. I mean, you know, I made a lot of entrepreneur groups and I hear, you know, the fatigue in a lot of voices trying to build your own business and it can be exhausting and, like, it can be discouraging. And I just I know a lot of people who kind of give up or, you know, just maybe don’t find the same kind of rewarding, I guess. I don’t know. I don’t know what it is, but you’re so right. I’m definitely, I feel like I’m on my path and I’ve been on the other side, though. Like, I’ve worked for – and I’ve had jobs that did I just kind of dread going to or work for big corporations that I just, I get to that point where I’m like, “What, what is my purpose here? Like, how am I making a difference really in the world?”

Sara Delaney: [00:17:16] And so, I’m glad that I had those experiences too because now I know what it can feel like to be on the other side. So, yes, it is. It’s a lot of work, but I’m grateful to have an awesome support network and to be part of some really great mentoring communities and peer support groups that I don’t, you know, as much as I’m working from home right now, I usually don’t feel too alone in this. So, I’m excited for the next chapter in building this business.

Stone Payton: [00:17:49] So, you’ve had an opportunity to share your insights, your experience, your perspective in a TED Talk. What was that like?

Sara Delaney: [00:17:59] Oh, my gosh. It was a lot of work. It was, I would say it took me about six months to get ready for that, and I had a great coach here in Asheville who really worked with me on my speech. But I would say more than like – more than even the speech itself, he helped me almost like a therapist. He helped me tap into the feeling that I really wanted to convey with my message. And, it required me to get really, like really deep and personal into my own healing journey, and so it was really intense at that level more than I could have expected because I chose a very personal topic too.

Sara Delaney: [00:18:54] And then, you know, to actually get up there, I mean, this was before when everything was still in person. Luckily, I think I hit like the last in-person event. I think there were 500 people in the theater. And the actual day was just – I mean, I used to have kind of stage fright. And so, to get over that was also a big challenge. But luckily, I had a lot of time and support and practice but no one prepared me for what it would actually be like to step on to stage.

Sara Delaney: [00:19:30] It was pitch dark in the auditorium and I couldn’t see anyone. And then, there were some really strange sounds coming from the audience. And so, even though we had, you know, we had practiced a lot on this stage, just in our small group without an audience, it was super nerve-wracking to be up there and have all these different challenges that I hadn’t prepared for. So, you know, and then just to really, really let my guard down and open up was a huge step for me. It was a huge step in just my personal journey, but also to get to where I am right now with my business.

Stone Payton: [00:20:10] Well, I have no doubt that you absolutely knocked it out of the park and that you reached more than a few people with your message, and that’s just based on having a really delightful, you know, 15, 20-minute conversation here on on the air. I love to listen to TED Talks. I must confess I haven’t heard yours, but I’m going to go find it and I’m going to listen to it.

Stone Payton: [00:20:33] Now, one of the decisions that you made at some point was to become part of the Greater Women’s Business Council, and I think you mentioned you’re WeBank certified. What compelled you to make that decision and how has that served you if it has?

Sara Delaney: [00:20:51] Yeah, definitely. You know, I think it’s really important – you know, I went to my – I did my undergrad at Simmons College, which is an all-women school in Boston, and I think it’s really important to stay connected with these communities that really celebrate women and also to just stay connected with programs like this that continuously show us role models because it’s important to have something to strive to. And, I feel like we’re not alone. And, there just aren’t that many female founders and leaders that I interact with on a daily basis in my everyday life. So, this really expanded my network and I would say, you know, even on a bottom-line impact, we get customers who have found us specifically because we are women-owned, certified.

Sara Delaney: [00:21:50] So, I think it’s helped us on that level as well. I definitely recommend the program to other female founders and I’m in the CPG space. So, there’s some benefits associated there too, with certain grocery store chains that are actively seeking out women-owned brands.

Stone Payton: [00:22:13] So, it strikes me that it’s one thing to have a leader as passionate and committed as you are to these topics that we’ve been describing. Clearly another, I would think, in the recruiting and selecting and developing and nurturing and building that culture, you must seek out people with overlapping value system. And, I suspect many of your customers share a lot of these values. Yeah?

Sara Delaney: [00:22:49] Yeah, that’s true. I mean, it’s hard to always, always know even who our customers are. For example, our products are in grocery stores, you know, and we don’t always know who’s buying our products, but it’s awesome to be able to do demos and interact directly with folks in stores when we’re able to. And, of course, on social media and engaging there.

Sara Delaney: [00:23:13] We’re also on this platform called faire.com. It’s an online wholesale platform where we can actually see retail because we sell wholesale as well as direct-to-consumer, but most of our business is wholesale. So, we can see the retailers who are actively searching for values because they have a checklist of values that folks can tick off to get to the type of business they’re looking for.

Sara Delaney: [00:23:43] So, that’s really cool, you know, and we do see a lot of people coming to us who are selling other Fair Trade certified and organic certified and women-owned brands. So, yeah, it’s always – it’s one of my favorite things to do is to walk into a store and see our products, you know, on the shelf or in the fridge next to other products that share some of the same values. It’s really exciting.

Sara Delaney: [00:24:11] So, yeah, I think it’s becoming very, very important to our consumers to stand for something important in the world, you know, to really be committed to making a positive impact environmentally, socially, and to really walk the talk.

Stone Payton: [00:24:32] Well, and how marvelous it must be to know that you’ve created an environment and a machine that will allow your employees and your market partners to live into their values.

Sara Delaney: [00:24:46] Yeah. I recently saw a report that showed employees today the salary, and, of course, this is very general, but their salary falls something like number four or five on the list of reasons they choose to work for companies. And typically, the first three items are very much values based decisions, which I think is pretty exciting.

Stone Payton: [00:25:14] Oh, man. Again, it must be incredibly rewarding. Okay. So, what’s next and how can we help not just the Business RadioX network, but those of us who are listening to this, who resonate with what you’re doing and why you’re doing it? What can we be doing in our daily lives to help and what are your near-term plans?

Sara Delaney: [00:25:36] Well, we really want to engage with the people who care about our products, but the values, as I mentioned, so you can find us on social media. Our handle is @drinksarilla, S-A-R-I-L-L-A. So, we’ve got Tiktok, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn, drinksarilla. Our website is also drinksarilla.com. I’m actually the one who does our emails. I rarely send them out, but when I do, it’s really important, an important message. So, I love getting new subscribers to our email. And then it’s my favorite thing is when someone actually responds to one of my emails and we have a conversation that way. So, I’m very much involved in the day-to-day business and any of those handles. Like, I will also see those messages.

Sara Delaney: [00:26:32] But even if folks are not choosing my products, I just encourage you always to kind of look behind the label of what you are buying. I mean, every time we spend money at the store, we’re casting a vote. And on the other side of that vote are people growing the ingredients, you know making the products, working so hard with so much care to make sure that we get what we want in our homes. So, as much as you can, you know, choose brands that you really care about and check them out. Like, see what they’re doing, see who they’re sourcing from.

Sara Delaney: [00:27:12] It’s really easy these days. We’ve got QR codes on our packages, we’ve got videos, we’ve got a crop-to-cup trip so we do travel to origin, and just, you know, take a look at your favorite brands and see what they’re up to. And then, there’s nothing better than word of mouth. So, if you like something you know, please shut it out on social media. If you don’t use social media, let your friends know because that’s how we grow and that’s how we continue to encourage other companies to try to do the right thing as well.

Stone Payton: [00:27:46] All right. One last time, let’s make sure that we leave our listeners with some points of contact. So, the LinkedIn, the website, whatever is appropriate, I want to make sure that they can reach out and learn more and maybe even have a conversation with you or someone on your team. So, if you would share again some key points of contact.

Sara Delaney: [00:28:03] Yeah. And, Stone, one other thing, we’re getting ready to do a big fundraise. We’re doing a seed round with IFundWomen. And so, over the next month, if folks do connect with us by email or social media, which is @drinksarilla, S-A-R-I-L-L-A, like gorilla, or drinkssarilla.com, then they’ll get an update on when we launch our IFundWomen campaign, and so people have an opportunity to contribute towards that campaign to help us launch this safety Sarilla in bars program this year that I mentioned before. So, that’s a really important way that people can get involved. And if you have questions about that social campaign, the community building part of it, we’re also looking for ambassadors and activists in the different cities where we’re launching this year.

Stone Payton: [00:29:01] Well, Sara Delaney, founder with Sarilla, it has been an absolute delight having you on the show this afternoon. You’re doing such important work and I have found the conversation and the information absolutely inspiring. Thank you so much for investing the time to visit with us.

Sara Delaney: [00:29:20] I appreciate it. Thank you, Stone. It’s been a great conversation.

Stone Payton: [00:29:25] All right. This is Stone Payton for our guest today, founder with Sarilla, Miss Sara Delaney, and everyone here at the Business RadioX family saying we’ll see you next time on GWBC’s Open for Business.

About GWBC

The Greater Women’s Business Council (GWBC®) is at the forefront of redefining women business enterprises (WBEs). An increasing focus on supplier diversity means major corporations are viewing our WBEs as innovative, flexible and competitive solutions. The number of women-owned businesses is rising to reflect an increasingly diverse consumer base of women making a majority of buying decision for herself, her family and her business.

GWBC^® has partnered with dozens of major companies who are committed to providing a sustainable foundation through our guiding principles to bring education, training and the standardization of national certification to women businesses in Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina.

Brandy and Bryan Rousselle With Capital Recovery Corporation

January 19, 2022 by Jacob Lapera

Cherokee Business Radio

Brandy and Bryan Rousselle With Capital Recovery Corporation

00:00 /

This Episode was brought to you by

Brandy and Bryan Rousselle, CEO at Capital Recovery Corporation

They are a world-class provider of Extended Business Office and Recovery services, emphasizing unparalleled performance for our clients, while providing the best possible work environment for their employees.

Follow CRC on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter.

This transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:07] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios In Woodstock, Georgia. It’s time for Cherokee Business Radio. Now here’s your host.

Stone Payton: [00:00:23] Welcome to Cherokee Business Radio Stone Payton here with you this morning, and today’s episode is brought to you, in part by Alma Coffey, sustainably grown, veteran owned and direct trade, which of course means from seed to cup, there are no middlemen. Please go check them out at my alma coffee and go visit their Roastery Cafe at thirty four point forty eight Holly Springs Parkway in Canton. As for Harry or the brains of the outfit Letitia? And please tell them that Stone sent you. You guys are in for a real treat this morning. Please join me and welcome into the broadcast with Capital Recovery Corp. Miss Brandy Rousselle and Brian Rousselle. Welcome to the show, guys. Good morning, Steve.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:01:09] Thanks for having us.

Stone Payton: [00:01:10] What a delight to have you on on the program. Maybe from the onset, it would be helpful to have a little bit of a primer on overview mission purpose. What are you guys out there trying to do for folks?

Brandy Rousselle: [00:01:22] We are. We’ve been around for 35 years. The company originally started with my father in law, his father, and it started as a collection agency 15 years ago. We took it in the health care. So now we are trying to be a fully extended business office for our clients that carries on to first party collections and then goes to third party collections.

Stone Payton: [00:01:44] So when you use the word collections to me that that sounds like they’re behind, are they necessarily behind or are you sometimes collecting on stuff that’s on track?

Brandy Rousselle: [00:01:54] Or when we have the early out program of our extended business office? That’s it can be anywhere from day one that the bill drops or it can be 30 days later. Maybe they want to do some in-house collections on their own pre collections, we like to call it. It’s not where their brow beating them or anything like that. They’re sending out a letter, maybe a phone call, but then they send it over to us and we act on their behalf. So when we answer the phone, we are that company. When we send out letters, it’s their letterhead. So they were basically just an extension of their business office and it’s not mandated under the FCPA at that point. So we can it’s it’s soft collections. We’re super, super nice. And but when it goes into collections, we’re still super nice. That’s one of the things that separates us from other agencies. We just don’t believe in browbeating someone. And, you know, we find that you can get a lot more results when you’re just willing to work with them and help them resolve their debt.

Stone Payton: [00:02:51] Well, I’m not surprised to hear that. I’m also not surprised that you gravitated to some degree to the health care arena. I suspect that’s one of the more challenging businesses to be in from a from a cash flow perspective. Is that accurate?

Brandy Rousselle: [00:03:05] Well, interestingly enough, I started 15 years ago when it was right when the recession started. So my background is health care and I said, we need some birth the great business to bring in here, because at that point in time, you know, we had the mortgage crisis and all of that. So in the collection agencies are kind of a litmus test for how the economy is going because if people can’t pay their bills were the first ones to know because we’re seeing the influx of business, right? So we went to health care and it is more challenging, but it’s more volume. Obviously, it’s like typically lower dollar accounts that someone’s co-pay, it’s their coinsurance, it’s their deductible, you know, those sorts of things. We also do have a facet of our business that works with insurance companies. So we’ll actually go after the insurance company to make sure that the claims process correctly. And then once this process, that’s our insurance follow up team. Once it’s processed, then it flips over to our patient responsibility and we have a whole different team that handles those.

Stone Payton: [00:04:05] I would think it would be a real challenge for the individual practitioner or the small clinical team or a dental office just dealing with all that paperwork. And I got to say, as as a layperson, being on the other end of all this, sometimes the paperwork is very confusing. You know, you get the one thing that says this is not a bill, this is a bill and it’s in the numbers are all over the all over the place.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:04:28] Most people have no idea the inner minutia of an insurance claim. They really don’t. And they don’t know that a lot of stuff can happen on the front end, meaning like something isn’t coded correctly or something wasn’t authorized before the procedure was done. I mean, you guys have probably experienced that with your own insurance claims, where all of a sudden you’re getting a $2000 bill and you’re like, Wait a minute, what’s the insurance for if I’m getting the bill and then you find out that it wasn’t processed correctly? So we do troubleshoot those things on on the insurance follow up site and try to resolve it before it even gets to the patient.

Stone Payton: [00:05:02] So I can hear it in your tone. I can. I can see it in the way you carry yourself. You obviously would be marvelous at this, but but you can’t you can’t do all this. You’ve got to recruit and develop people that can take this, this same mindset and the same skill set to to the marketplace. How do you how do you? You do that. How do you recruit, develop it and retain these folks?

Brandy Rousselle: [00:05:25] One of the requirements that we have for our staff and our team is CPR certification. So that certified patient account representative, and that’s another thing that separates us from our competitors. It’s a it starts in June and it’s a pretty it’s like a 1000 page book. And then the test is in November. And so what we do, we incentivize. Obviously, we’ll pay for the exam because it gives them that CPR certification. And then we will also give them a bonus that says, Hey, good job, you did this and it’s something they can carry through the rest of their career. And a lot of times, you know, they get to throw the acronym on the end of their signature, and they have that. So God forbid, they leave capital recovery to go somewhere else. They’re going to stand out a bunch are among the other candidates that are out there.

Stone Payton: [00:06:10] Yeah, I sense that you would fire me before lunch. I know I would. I would be well intentioned if I made it through that process. But I mean, you just have to have a certain discipline, a certain mindset, a certain level of maturity to handle those conversations. Because I would think at some point you’re not necessarily catching people at their best and you’re trying to have a conversation with it, right? I mean, that’s well.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:06:35] And one of the things our industry is experiencing big time right now is the regulations. The agencies out there, the FTC, CPAs, the TCP was the CFPB’s. All these lots of letters now. Yeah, that bring a lot of challenges for us. And you know, like one one bill that was just passed is when you speak with a debtor or a patient. And if you don’t get permission to talk to them like you can’t, you have to say, can I call you back tomorrow? And if they don’t give you permission, if you call them again before seven days, you you’re at the mercy of a lawsuit. If someone wants to go after that, oh, it’s it’s absolutely nuts. And another thing that’s going on is a lot of providers. This was one of the biggest changes with this ruling was a lot of providers don’t realize that when your patient comes in and fills out their face sheet and they put their email address on their or their cell phone number on there, if they if you don’t send the letter thirty five days before you transfer that account to capital recovery, that says, Hey, this is going to capital recovery in thirty five days. You can opt out of this communication portal if you want to. But if you don’t, you know, if they don’t do that, we can’t reach out to them via email or cell phone. We have to be able to get consent. It’s not. It’s not transferred consent. And right now, consent is a big thing because the CFP and the TCP they want, you know, you’re getting all these spam calls on your cell phone all the time, right? Right. And so they want they’re trying to prevent that. So it’s it’s to protect the consumer, but it brings a lot of difficulties for the are part of collecting and doing this own collections. It really does.

Stone Payton: [00:08:18] Well, I can see I might be a well accomplished physician, dentist practitioner, but to be good at that and have my arms around all of these regulations could get in trouble in a hurry. I would think you can.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:08:32] You can. And staying on top of it, I mean, you really have to have a full time compliance person, but that’s one of the things that I feel like we do well and we inform our clients like we do webinars for them to say, Hey, this is coming up, right? You know, these are the changes and we try to bring the solutions for them. So it doesn’t seem so problematic, you know, for them, because you’re right, they they went to school to provide medicine and, you know, to serve patients. They didn’t go to school to figure out if the CPT code was correct on the bill or if they got consent from the patient to contact them later.

Stone Payton: [00:09:05] Wow. So many moving parts and the practitioner’s life, but in your business as well. So we have Brian, your business partner, here as well. You may have noticed when when we teed this conversation up their last name, both of them is Roussel. You’re a married couple. Yeah, you’re in business together. Mm hmm. Oh my.

Bryan Rousselle: [00:09:25] Yeah, you can tell that she handles that aspect. I’m on the commercial side, but we don’t have to deal with all those regulations.

Stone Payton: [00:09:33] Well, all right. We’ll say more about that, right?

Bryan Rousselle: [00:09:35] It’s more straight up to me, to be honest with you. It’s you get clients, our commercial clients that have obviously it’s business to business, right? They don’t follow all those those rules. I mean, it’s very deregulated. It’s very straightforward. We have, you know, building products company National One. We deal with contractors, you know, we get a a claim for $20000, the same premise. So excuse me, we don’t we handle it the same way and the same sort of for lack of a better term compassion. We don’t want to go in there so combative. It doesn’t get anything done. We represent our client and say, Look, we don’t want to litigate this. Let’s let’s work something out. Let’s let’s get a payment plan that all sides are happy with. So we keep. The attorneys out of it, and, you know, they use us because they don’t want their employees doing that. You know what capital? You handle this. I need our employees staying on current. Are you guys figure something out and as you develop a relationship with your client? You know what’s acceptable? And no, it’s not. So if they come back with a payment offer or a payment plan. We know we can’t bring to our client say you’re going to have to. I’m not going to even bother my client with that. Yeah, let’s get it up and let’s get this and let’s get the attorneys out of it and let’s work together and kind of stay on top of it like that, but not regulated like that. Not even close.

Stone Payton: [00:10:57] Well, I suspect contractors, that’s another one of those businesses where cash flow, even when people are paying on time, is probably a challenge, let alone when they fall behind like that, right?

Bryan Rousselle: [00:11:08] Right. Sure. Absolutely.

Stone Payton: [00:11:09] So what counsel, if any, might you have to just not get in that situation in the first place, not not get in debt or there’s some strategies and tactics, some things you can just sort of implement

Brandy Rousselle: [00:11:21] As a business client side?

Stone Payton: [00:11:22] Well, actually, I was going to ask you about both.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:11:24] Ok. Well, I think for from the debtor perspective or the patient perspective, communication is key. Absolutely. If you are talking to them, if you are not ignoring the statements and the letters and the emails and the phone calls that are happening, they’re going to work with you, you know, and they’re they’re going to be less apt to say, send this off. And and, you know, I mean, kill them with kindness, just give them the story to let them know. Like, Look, I know that I’m behind, but I need you to work with me and, you know, just go from there. And then from a client perspective, it’s the same thing communication. Stay on top of your air, but also make sure you’re tightening up those loose ends, like getting consent for cell phone, text messaging and emails. Make sure that when they come in, you’re updating their demographic information. You know, we do have what we call skip tracing service, where let’s say a medical provider gives me a list of patients to put into our system. We’ll run it through a database. The database will tell us their newest address, and so we’ll always have the most up to date information.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:12:32] But now it’s getting so innovative with a AI and machine learning. Now it’s spitting back results. We’re actually in the midst of partnering with a company right now that it will spit back their propensity to pay, and they base that off of zip code. They base that off credit scores. They base that off of basically what they’ve seen in the past, and they’ve got this very large database and they work with a lot of agencies so they can kind of bump it up against all of them and say, Hey, this is where you really need to focus, you know, put these accounts in front of your live collectors. Let though the other stuff sit on the back end and get the letters and the emails and the text. So you know, a lot of people when they say, how big is your agency? Well, we’re we’re like 15, but we don’t need to be any bigger than that because we have a lot of technology doing the work for us. That’s true.

Stone Payton: [00:13:27] Well, and here we go again. Not only do you have the knowledge base, but you have the resources and you understand how to employ those resources. Now, I’m worried that way a little bit. Anyway, I have two tools at my house a telephone and a checkbook, so I know I sort of lean in that direction anyway. But if someone’s considering just trying to take take this on themselves for their own practice or their own business, man, they’re leaving some holes, aren’t they?

Brandy Rousselle: [00:13:53] Lots of them. Yeah, definitely. I mean, there has to be a schedule, some consistency when we meet with prospects or our clients, we show them our work flow chart that says this is what happens when the account comes in. At day one, it gets scrubbed. You know, we start, we send out the whether it’s an early out or bad debt, we send out whatever first notice is necessary at that point. So they’re getting a letter simultaneously, they’re getting text messages, they’re getting voicemails and they’re getting emails. So we’re reaching out and all of it complies and is compliant with these regulations. But they’re getting communications that I guarantee you. A lot of these providers and other companies out there are not able to do because the manpower is not there.

Stone Payton: [00:14:38] So you’ve mentioned that phrase a couple of times early out? Yes. Would you describe that? I don’t know what that is.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:14:44] Early Owl is soft collections. So that’s if, you know, say you have company trucking ABC and you don’t want it to be like, Hey, I sent you to collections already. I want trucking ABC to be represented, but you can’t handle doing the collections in-house. That’s you outsourcing it to us, and that’s acting on your behalf.

Stone Payton: [00:15:02] Okay. Yeah.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:15:04] Nice. So and a lot of that that actually and one of the other things that I think separates us from our competitors, there’s a lot of agencies out there that do offer early out and they offer collections. But what they’ll do is they’ll start with a low rate because they say, well, early out it’s newer air, so it’s probably more collected. And then they’ll jump it up to like 25, 30 percent when it hits bad debt. Well, naturally, what that’s going to do and I don’t want to say all agencies do this, but why wouldn’t you just sit on it and not work as hard, aggressively on the front end and then hit the higher rate

Stone Payton: [00:15:37] On the back? Sure, that’s that’s human nature.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:15:40] So we do not do that. We actually have a flat rate across the board and it’s contingent we don’t get paid unless we collect. So there’s really no risk for our clients at all when they use our early out to bad debt program.

Stone Payton: [00:15:54] Well, I mean, I think I could build a business case for early out for anybody that’s got a substantial amount of receivables, just trying to stay focused on on on their craft. Yeah. So I want to ask this of each of you individually and I’ll start with Brian. But what are you finding the most rewarding about the work? What do you enjoy the most man?

Bryan Rousselle: [00:16:17] I guess making the clients happy producing for them, the results that you get and at the same time working with someone and convincing them to work with you and to get on a payment plan to get them out because I’m sure it’s stressful, you know? Yeah, the if you owe money to one of our clients, you know, and the worst thing you can do is Brandy touched on is just ignore it because it’s not going to go away. So if you if you handle it professionally and say, OK, well, this is the landscape that I’m in. Can I work with you on this and you’re able to resolve a problem helps somebody else’s house because it’s stressful, you know, and just let them know. Look, I’m not here to browbeat you. You know, we’re here to solve a problem for everyone involved. You know, our client and you. And getting to that result is something that it’s it’s kind of an accomplishment. You’re like, OK, I fixed a problem that they turned over to me because on their end, they could not get it resolved. I’ll bet so. Yeah. Because owing money is not a fun thing, and I understand

Stone Payton: [00:17:21] And I’ve been there. Yeah, exactly. And it wasn’t fun, and I have been on the other end of the phone with someone who browbeating is the right is the right term. And it yeah, that was not. It was. It’s not pleasant being on either into this correct. Really, it’s sort of I have a resource like you guys, how about how about you, brandy? What are you enjoying the most?

Brandy Rousselle: [00:17:39] I mean, I would definitely agree with Brian, but I think the aspect I am enjoying the most right now since 2020 and the pandemic, we’ve seen technology blow up in this industry. And I just love seeing like all these different little facets that come in and help us provide better services for our clients and just things that like, I mean, some of it’s a little like artificial intelligence, you know, it’s it’s causing me to stay on top of technology instead of get behind, and I’m liking that accountability from it.

Stone Payton: [00:18:12] Now, Brian touched on this a little while ago, but I’d like to dove a little bit deeper. Do you find yourselves from what you’ve learned over the years of doing this? Because I mean, this is not your first rodeo. You guys have been at this that you you take approaches, use strategies and tactics, employ different tools and resources as you’re working with clients from different arenas like medical, retail, commercial.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:18:36] Yes, I mean, they definitely drive our next step, you know, whether it’s commercial or consumer or health care, definitely. If there’s a need and we can help, we’re going to do some research like, as I mentioned earlier, the insurance follow up. There’s different partners out there that can help you expedite that and do it much more easily than maybe a health care provider hasn’t looked into and we’ll go out there. And so sometimes, yeah, our our clients are definitely driving where our business is going and where our technology is ending up for sure.

Stone Payton: [00:19:09] So talk a little bit, if you would. This is partially for my own benefit. One of the things, guys. A benefit of having your own radio show. You get all this free insight and consulting. And so we’re still trying to polish and evolve our onboarding process when we bring on a new client on the client side of our work. Talk to me, if you will, about your own onboarding process. Those early steps of an engagement. What does that look like when when you take on a new client,

Brandy Rousselle: [00:19:38] When they’ve expressed interest, depending upon if their health care, commercial or retail? It will go to a business office manager will set up calls we look for and we basically do a profile on the company which identifies their needs. It identifies, you know, one of the cool things about us. I think we’re flexible to where let’s say you don’t want letters going out every two weeks, you want them going out once a month. You just don’t want your patients receiving, you know, we can customize that very quickly.

Bryan Rousselle: [00:20:10] So I can tailor its its own collection service.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:20:13] So we will we will reach out to them and we’ll have multiple conversations before the onboarding process that says, OK, this is what typically we need to put you into our system, get your account set up. We have what we call strategy on demands on the back end of our database, and those things drive these accounts through the system depending upon what the client wants, as well as, you know, our own internal processes. And then we will have the onboarding call where we will talk to them. This is what you expect, especially when it’s medical. We’ll get those individuals that are at the front office because a lot of times the people making these decisions are CFOs, controllers, business office managers. But you have front office personnel that are at the local clinic. They’re not aware of capital recovery, they’re not aware of the process and the patient’s going to come in and be like, We’re this bill come from there. So we want to make sure that we, you know, educate everybody about the process. So we’ll probably have, you know, anywhere between three and. Five calls to onboard them, and then what we like to tell them is give us 90 days because that gives us the time to work, the account, scrub them, really dove into there and we can give them feedback. And we’ll say after 90 days, we’re going to schedule a call. We’re going to let you know. These are the things that are working and these are the holes that we think we can possibly do do better on our end or make some suggestions on their end of processes that we’ve seen work for other clients that they may want to try.

Stone Payton: [00:21:46] I’m glad I asked you. It seems you guys seem so much more buttoned up than we are here at Business RadioX. We’re like Samir, just send us a check and we’ll figure it out the rest later. Come on in, we’ll talk it through. So no, it’s it’s a it’s a model to aspire to. Where does the new business come from? How does the whole sales and marketing thing work for a, for a, for a business like yours?

Brandy Rousselle: [00:22:09] We’ve tried many things. As you can imagine with a collection agency, there’s this negative connotation that we’re trying to, you know, really remove. But it’s it’s a challenge. I mean, we do social media. We also like to, you know, our our team. We’ve been very involved in the community and we like to profile that we’re not just these people behind the desk going after the money. Most of the time we’re partnering with a nonprofit, you know, to feed homeless or do something like that and you know, or give give supplies to, you know, a pet, you know, shelter or something like that. Like, we’ve got a really good team and they’re all very kind hearted and we like to showcase that. So that’s part of it. We’ve worked with PPC, we’ve obviously with SEO, but mostly our target and where we’re finding the best bang. And thank God, hopefully these are going to resolve and continue soon is our conferences, you know, getting in front of the audience. There’s something to be said about that face to face connection. I mean, people are inundated with email blasts. They’re inundated with, you know, just cold calls or whatever. Just being able to be down there at a booth and you know, one of our specialties is worker’s compensation. So and that’s not something a lot of agencies focus on. So we will put ourselves in front of a workers compensation conference or nice occupational health. You know, we’ve gone to some conferences for that. So that’s really it’s it’s a challenge for this industry, for marketing, but it can be done.

Stone Payton: [00:23:45] And so you’ll exhibit and maybe even teach like a present at a what do you call like a breakout thing?

Brandy Rousselle: [00:23:54] Well, we’ve done webinars. We have not actually done like a sponsorship of a of an event. But yeah, that’s definitely something

Stone Payton: [00:24:03] That you guys would be great for that, I think. So a large part of our listening audience are entrepreneurs, often small teams, small firms, some of them probably kind of fit the demographic of some of your client base. And as an entrepreneur, small business owner myself, I know this to be true. We all have a tendency at times to to hit a wall run out of gas. You guys had the benefit of maybe recharging each other, but I always like to ask what when you kind of get to that point or you see that coming on the horizon? Where do you go to to recharge to get inspiration to to to refresh what’s what’s what’s your approach to getting

Brandy Rousselle: [00:24:46] So personally or yeah? I mean,

Stone Payton: [00:24:50] I I was I’m going to ask Brian as well.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:24:53] I like to be active in the community. I have a nonprofit that you do with the homeless in Atlanta. Yes, it’s called loving one by one. So I work with them. And like at Christmas, we we just gave there were 11 homeless vets in the area that we just gave them, like head to toe gear for the cold and my tents and tarps and stuff like that. And you know, it’s just that’s one of the things that like feeds me, you know, it really doesn’t makes me feel good to be able to provide for somebody else. And then I’m also active on the Main Street board in downtown Canton. We moved, we moved down there three years ago when we moved off of Main Street and we renovated a house and we just love it. We absolutely

Stone Payton: [00:25:42] Love it. So. Main Street Board. I’m not familiar with it. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:25:47] The functionality of Main Street Board is to really bring in business for the businesses that are down there. So we work on promotions and events to bring foot traffic so that that brings in that foot traffic to these local businesses that we want to support.

Stone Payton: [00:26:04] Nice. Yeah. And Brian, I know you get behind the mic, could you? You’re a performer. You’re a musician. But where do you go for inspiration? Recharges at the beach? Is it sailing? Is it? Is it working with Brandy on some of these calls?

Bryan Rousselle: [00:26:18] No, no, actually, she’s she’s she can do she. I mean, I help her out, you know, if we have to deliver stuff and everything, but she’s really the brains behind all of that. I play in a band called the Whiskey Holler. We play all over Metro Atlanta. I love it. And that that’s my outlet. You know, it’s right, you know, because sometimes in this industry, it can be stressful. You know you you’re on the phone all day long. You know, you’re talking to people that don’t necessarily want to talk to you. And I don’t want to paint the, you know, the roses. I mean, we want to work with everyday. Don’t get me wrong, but some people are very combative and you have to. It’s, you know, you get off the phone after a 20 minute call, you’re like, Oh my gosh, you know, I just got to take a lap, you know? And so, you know, playing music and hanging out with your friends and stuff is and going downtown to the obviously downtown canton is growing. Oh yeah. And there’s so much to do, and it’s only getting it’s only getting bigger. It’s getting better. And so that’s what I like to do. So that’s kind of how I get away from the industry and kind of keep everything in perspective.

Stone Payton: [00:27:18] So what’s next for the business near term? I don’t know, six to 18 months? Are you maybe looking at scaling or are you going to hunker down? And what do you think and where are you going to put your energy?

Brandy Rousselle: [00:27:29] Well, right now we are in Alpharetta, but most everybody is at home right now just because, you know, it’s just, you know, so we want to move the office to downtown Canton just, you know, have a space where if clients want to come in and see what’s going on, that’s fine, but still offer the remote.

Bryan Rousselle: [00:27:47] But really, if you don’t mind me, let me ask you a question. Yes, sir. So through this pandemic and what’s happening and all the variants that’ll come down and who knows if there’s going to be another one, but one thing that it’s taught a lot of people is that the traditional pre pandemic, I guess, routine going into the office, going home, going to the office, it’s completely changed. We don’t need all that space anymore. I mean, our employees are more productive. They don’t. There’s less wear and tear in your car. It saves you in gas. You don’t need the kind of office space that we used to have. It seems to change. It’s it’s a it’s almost become when people have a resume that they look for a job, they ask you, Well, what are the work from home hours? And you never would have heard that before. You know, and technology is is is changed to accommodate that, that factor in in employment. It’s really, you know, it’s because it’s really different than it was two years ago, some two years ago.

Stone Payton: [00:28:56] Well, more and more business leaders are expressing that exact sentiment. I can tell you here at Business RadioX, I kind of went kicking and screaming into the idea of doing virtual interviews. Mm hmm. And there is a little different dynamic in the studio, especially when you have multiple and businesses represented and I thirst for that human contact. But as far as efficiencies, effectiveness of running, so many of our businesses to have thousands and thousands of square feet of space, no, it’s just not. And I don’t think it’s ever going to snap back. I mean, I’m no thought leader, but just my base. My opinion is it’s not going to be like it was.

Bryan Rousselle: [00:29:33] There’s a national company across the street from where our brick and mortar is. Yeah, and

Brandy Rousselle: [00:29:39] They

Bryan Rousselle: [00:29:40] Yeah, obviously a global company, and they used to have thousands of cars in their parking lot and we were kind of try to duck out before them because when they flow out and you’re stuck, you know? But there hasn’t been a maybe 15 to 20 cars in there for two years plus and they’re still working. Yeah, but they’re just doing it in a different capacity. You know that they are adapting to the landscape of what’s going on and what the employees need and want.

Stone Payton: [00:30:07] And so many of us have learned or been reaffirmed even larger firms that were slow to move in that direction that that most, most employees are going to do a perfectly fine job in some cases a better job because they have the flexibility to do what they need to do. Yeah. And I don’t know what the future will hold, but my instincts are it’s never going to snap back to the old.

Bryan Rousselle: [00:30:28] Remember when it first started, it was and nobody knew what was going on. It was just to flatten the curve. And I want to get this political. I’m not. I’m just saying there was never you could never foresee two years out that it it’s still the same way because those employees were like, Wait a minute, why are we spending this here? Look at our productivity. Yeah, our employees are doing a better job. You know, they’re they’re they’re doing just as well. Not, you know, like I said, if not better, right? But we don’t need all this overhead. Why don’t they need to come in? They just wake up, get on the VPN, start their days business, get on Zoom calls. You ever, never leave their house. It’s I mean, it’s it’s a win win for the employee, you know?

Stone Payton: [00:31:08] Sure. I agree.

Bryan Rousselle: [00:31:10] And you didn’t think you’d be at this spot. At least I didn’t. I thought, maybe. Going into it five months, Max, you know, because we didn’t know anything about it, you know, so but it turns out to be a very successful business model. It really, really is.

Stone Payton: [00:31:21] Yeah, I agree. 100 percent. Yeah, it’s weird. So you’re talking about you’re going to actually you’re going to plant your flag headquarters is going to be, you know,

Brandy Rousselle: [00:31:29] We want to we want to move down to Canton and then, you know, give the employees the decision. If they want to come in, they can. I mean, we can track productivity very well. It’s very transparent and what we’re doing so. Right? But then it’s just to grow, you know, continue to grow the Extended Business Office, the early out portion. I really feel that there’s a huge need for that right now, especially in health care, because a lot of people are exiting the health care industry, you know, due to COVID. And so these physicians are in a place now more than ever. You know, you have to focus on the service and the treatment, but you can’t leave the back end, you know, not are taken care of or don’t get not provide the attention that it needs because that’s going to cause your bottom line to just it’s not going to be good. You have to stay on top of health care claims all the time.

Stone Payton: [00:32:23] Well, well, you guys are clearly filling such an important need. Thanks. Really? Before we wrap, let’s make sure that our listeners know how to get in touch. Have a conversation with you or someone on your team, whether they might want to learn more about getting this certification and becoming part of your team, or if they might want to invite you to come to a conference and speak on the topics, or if they might be a prospective client. Whatever you think is appropriate, website LinkedIn, email, whatever points of contact makes sense. Let’s make sure that we give them. Give them those those contact points.

Brandy Rousselle: [00:33:00] Definitely our website Capital Recovery Dot Net, there’s contact information on there. There’s a get started page that goes directly to us. It goes to our sales department. If you’re interested in our services or just in general, that’s the easiest way to get in touch with. There’s some email addresses on there, too. Then if you want to email us directly,

Stone Payton: [00:33:21] That works as well. All right. And where can we hear the whiskey?

Bryan Rousselle: [00:33:24] What the whiskey holler.

Stone Payton: [00:33:26] Where are you guys going to be in?

Bryan Rousselle: [00:33:27] We’re going to be February 12th, the Valentine’s Day weekend where we will be at high tops and Canton. Yeah, and then March. I think it’s whatever the is it 15th March, 15th downtown Alpharetta at the truck and tap for for St. Patty’s Day there. Celebration.

Stone Payton: [00:33:50] Oh, I love me some truck and tap to. That’s good,

Bryan Rousselle: [00:33:52] Man. That’s a good place. Actually, I like it. It’s good food.

Stone Payton: [00:33:56] Well, Brandy and Brian Russell with Capital Recovery Corp. it has been an absolute. Thanks, Don. Appreciate it. Oh, this has been fun. It’s been informative and I get inspired to want to go out there and do better for for my clients as well. I know our listeners feel the same way and don’t be a stranger, something that might be fun. And if you guys are up for it, it might be interesting to have you come back in the studio some time with a delighted client. We’ll spotlight their business as well. Absolutely. And maybe talk about how you guys were thinking Stone. You’re thinking like it happens twice a day. Well, thank you so much, guys.

Bryan Rousselle: [00:34:34] Yeah, we appreciate the opportunity.

Stone Payton: [00:34:35] Thank you. All right. This is Stone Payton for our guests today, Brandy and Brian Russell with Capital Recovery Corporation and everyone here at the Business RadioX family saying, we’ll see you next time on Cherokee Business Radio.