Katie Wagner With KWSM: a digital marketing agency

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studio in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio, brought to you by Kennesaw State University’s Executive MBA program, the accelerated degree program for working professionals looking to advance their career and enhance their leadership skills. And now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, CSU’s executive MBA program. Without them, we couldn’t be sharing these important stories. Today on Atlanta Business Radio, we have Katie Wagner. She’s the CEO with KWSM. A digital marketing agency. Welcome.

Katie Wagner: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn about your firm. Tell us about KWSM. How you serving, folks?

Katie Wagner: Sure. So KWSM is a full service digital marketing agency, but we specialize in lead generation, so that means all of our clients need to scale or grow, and they’re looking to generate more leads and sales online. And then sometimes that’s sort of outside the box lead generation applications like recruiting because hiring recruiting is lead generation just aimed at candidates instead of clients. So we can also help with things like that.

Lee Kantor: So do you mind sharing a little bit about your journey? How’d you get into this line of work?

Katie Wagner: Sure. Happy to. So I was a television anchor for 15 years, actually, before I started the agency. And in the last few years of my TV career, nobody was going home to watch the 5:00 news because they get headlines on Facebook and Twitter and see videos on YouTube. And so the powers that be at my station said, get out there and learn how to use these channels and get our audience back. And the more I learned about digital, this is back in the early 2000 when when Facebook was just coming out and these channels were being popular. The more I learned, the more I realized that we weren’t going to get our audience back, that people liked the immediacy of digital, and that’s how they wanted to get information. And so I retired from TV and opened the agency in 2010 with the goal of helping business owners tell their story and learn how to use and harness these new channels.

Lee Kantor: So was that a difficult transition to go from being on air to being kind of behind the scenes, helping other people?

Katie Wagner: No, not at all. Not at all. So I say that my favorite part of not being on TV anymore is that I don’t have to wear makeup to the grocery store, so it’s nice to be a little more incognito. But also, Lee, it’s the same job. I mean, we tell stories for a living, and these days we just tell them from a certain perspective rather than sort of neutrally. And for that reason we call ourselves a brand journalists. But it’s the same. It’s the same skill set. We’re asking questions. We’re trying to uncover the stories behind the work they do every day, and what’s appealing to their audience, and then help them position that in a way that captures attention and drives action.

Lee Kantor: What are some of the misconceptions when it comes to lead generation? Because the word is kind of bandied about very liberally and I get bombarded. I’m sure you do. And I’m sure most business owners do with just spam in their LinkedIn about their. Here’s a new magic lead generation system that will do this while you sleep.

Katie Wagner: Yes, that happens frequently and there is no magic bullet, so we should all proceed with caution with those emails and messages. But I think one of the problems is that lead generation can mean a lot of different things. So sometimes it means cold outreach or appointment setting. Sometimes it means inbound marketing with blogging and SEO, and there are a lot of different ways to generate leads online. And I think how we generate leads has changed quite a bit over the years. But at Wzzm we do. Lead generation. By positioning our clients as thought leaders and as experts in their space, and we really try to position them as best in class companies. And by leading with that expertise and that thought leadership, we can generate leads through people that are searching and want to work with best in class companies. So our leads are mostly inbound, right? They come through the internet to the website, but these days it’s harder to rely only on one lead generation tactic. And so we often combine those strategies with some outbound, which is cold outreach, sometimes through email or ads, and then near bound, which is strategic partnerships, um, you know, leveraging partnerships and relationships to reach new audiences that way. So really, everything we do is about positioning our clients as experts and as as credible partners for their clients.

Lee Kantor: What are some examples of Near Bound?

Katie Wagner: Well, this is an example the podcast you and I are doing because, um, you know, at the end of the day, you’re going to interview me and then I’m going to take this content and I’m going to share it with my audience, and you’re going to share it with your audience. And what we are doing is exposing our constituents to each other. And so often for our clients, it can be as easy as doing a webinar with a strategic partner or co-creating blog content or social media content, something like that, where you’re each sharing with your respective populations and then you’re exposing the other to your audience. But what happens is, because my audience trusts me and is used to consuming my content, that is sort of a transfer of trust that happens with anybody that I bring into that content. And so it essentially delivers warmer leads for the other person. So for our clients, we’re constantly thinking about who are the strategic partners, who are the adjacent types of businesses that we could couple with to create content and to add more value. And we’re brokering and leveraging those relationships for them.

Lee Kantor: Is that kind of an area where maybe a lot of business owners don’t think about that as a, as an avenue to kind of grow their network and grow their business, that they’re not looking for those collaborative, complementary partnerships.

Katie Wagner: Absolutely. And even the word near bound is very, very new. Not a lot of people are talking about it. But, you know, it’s it’s a concept that we’ve all known about forever. You know, how many of us have gone to networking meetings or tried to, you know, cultivate referral partners? Um, people like people. We connect with people. Um, I think the reason Near Bound is coming to the forefront is that, candidly, trust in the internet is declining, right? There’s a lot of misinformation out there. There’s a lot of AI generated content that may or may not be fully accurate. And people know that where ten years ago, 15 years ago, when I started the company, they could Google, they could get an answer that was reliable and they can make decisions that way. These days, there’s a lot more distrust around that. And so it’s a lot harder to generate leads strictly online. And so I think there’s there’s been this mind shift where, you know, when we can’t find something trustworthy online, what do we do? We ask other people, you know, I need a mechanic. Do you know somebody I need a lawyer. Do you know somebody? And we trust what other people tell us. And so Near Bound is actually just the latest iteration of how we leverage that trust and, and systemize it for our clients. But I don’t think many people think about it, and I don’t think many businesses have a formal plan around how they’re going to leverage those relationships. And if if they did do that, it would exponentially increase the amount of leads they could drive for their businesses.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, early on, you mentioned how you when you started, there was kind of a different landscape when it came to come, came to lead generation. And as the technology has evolved and the media has grown less and less trustworthy, and people have had to alter their tactics, obviously we’re talking a lot about this near bound as a tactic. Um, have you is it difficult to when you’re communicating with your clients because a lot of them obviously aren’t as attuned to the trends and the and kind of the, the landscape change that you’ve experienced because you do this 24 over seven. Is that a kind of an eye opening, difficult conversation where they’re kind of begrudgingly going along with these new tactics as opposed to look back in the day, you know, we ran commercials or we did pay per click ads or some of those things that, you know, like you said earlier, used to be effective but are losing a lot of their effectiveness.

Katie Wagner: Yeah, it’s it’s a new conversation, right? It’s conversations they haven’t had in relation to marketing in the past. But I don’t think it’s difficult because most people are experiencing what you and I are experiencing. We’re flooded with outreach online. We’re seeing a lot of stuff on the internet that’s just not very valuable. And so most people, when you explain that that landscape makes it harder to generate business, they’ve already been feeling that and seeing that. So it tends to resonate. I think the part that’s new is most business owners don’t know what to do about it. Right? What are my choices? We’ve been taught for so many years that you just continue to do the marketing, and this should help grow your business. And there hasn’t been a lot of exposure to new ways to look at that. So I think once we explain it to our clients, they do get it. And it does resonate. And it doesn’t take very long to show them the value. Right. If we can just create a webinar or have them guest on a couple of podcasts, or create a survey or a blog or a study together with somebody else, they sort of see the power of amplifying that promotion through the partner. And so it’s it’s a tactic we can prove pretty quickly. Um, but sure, it takes a little bit of of openness to new ideas and thinking outside the way we’ve sort of always done things. And we’re we’re lucky activism because we are first and foremost trusted advisors to our clients. And, you know, our our goals are aligned. We need to help them grow or else they don’t have to continue to work with us. And so I think there’s a lot of trust in our relationships that way, that most clients will will give us a shot and hear us out at least.

Lee Kantor: Right. So they’re open to the conversation. But I don’t know. I just feel like we’re there so much misinformation about how there’s all these leads that are just kind of waiting for you, and all you have to do is do whatever this magic thing is, and then they’re going to be kind of flooding to your door. And in this new world, that sounds like and I’m a proponent of this. Well, and this is a personal challenge for us as to, to explain this in a way that they believe that this is a better way to do things, is that it’s kind of a longer play in that you got to nurture relationships and you have to build relationships, and there’s no kind of magic unlocking of hundreds of people just can’t wait to hear and learn from you. Like you got to kind of grind and earn them one at a time.

Katie Wagner: Yeah, no, you’re exactly right. There is no magic bullet, and lead generation in general is not a fast process. It is a long term strategy. But I think it helps to think about sort of what I’m going to call active prospects versus passive prospects. So active leads or active prospects are people that are out there searching for the thing that you do, right. They know they have a need. They want to find somebody to help them. They’re searching for your product or service, and those are the leads you can capture with things like SEO and blog posts and a great website and maybe even ads placed in the right place. But there is a lot of competition for those leads, those people that are showing intent to purchase already. And so it becomes a game of can you get in front of them first? Can you stand out against the competition sometimes? Do you have the budget to compete in a crowded landscape and that, as it gets more crowded, is getting more and more and more difficult? So what tactics like Near Bound capitalize on are the more passive prospects, the people that may not know they have a need, but if they hear your content and resonate with with it, it plants a seed. It gets them familiar. They start to build a relationship with you, and it may mean that they need to read 3 or 4 blogs, or watch a couple of webinars, or hear 5 or 6 episodes of your podcast. But it’s that connection and that emotional tie that you’re trying to build that builds trust, and that can lead them to explore your services, even if they weren’t actively looking.

Katie Wagner: I would tell you, those are much warmer leads for you because they’ve chosen, after consuming your content to start the conversation, rather than the the people that are out there searching that are probably going to talk to 5 or 6 companies and you’re you’re literally trying to sell against those companies in Near Bound, you’re building a relationship that leads to a business conversation. So yes, it takes a lot longer, but also it’s a lot stickier and a lot warmer when you’re having those conversations. And it’s easier to close business. And and I sort of liken it to when we all go out and go to networking events. Very rarely do you meet somebody at a networking, you know, happy hour and they hire you the next day. But maybe you stay in touch and decide to go to coffee with them. Or maybe you exchange some emails or talk about your business a couple times, and then a few weeks or months down the road. They say, you know, I want to talk about what you do. Maybe you could help me that know like and trust factor that you’re building then leads to business that is no different than what has to happen online these days. Because that quick find me and sell to me immediately. That’s getting too hard and too crowded in this environment. It’s not a reliable lead generation strategy anymore.

Lee Kantor: So who is the ideal customer for your services?

Katie Wagner: We usually work with, um, usually low lower middle market businesses, maybe 1 million to 50 million, something like that. And we’re industry agnostic. We work both B2B and B2C, but there’s four different buckets we’ve worked in quite a lot over our 15 years. One is professional services. So law firms, CPAs, wealth managers, those sorts of things. One is manufacturers and distributors, companies that make something. We work a lot with nonprofits and local governments, city and county governments to help communicate with their constituents. And then the last one is direct to consumer, which sometimes is consumer products, but not often. Often it is things like banks and gyms and businesses that serve consumers but don’t have a tangible product. They’re more service related. So we, um, we’ve been in business 15 years. We have about 200 clients a year. So it would be hard to find an industry we haven’t worked in at least once. But those are four buckets we find ourselves returning to quite frequently.

Lee Kantor: And is there an example you can share? Maybe a story? Don’t name the name of the company, but share maybe the problem they came to you with and how you were able to help them get to a new level?

Katie Wagner: Sure, absolutely. So, Um. Let’s see. I’ll tell you a story about a CPA firm that came to us. They’ve been working with us for about five years. So to your point, long term, um, and the CPA firm came to us and it was just a single person, a CPA that was doing great work. And they had a niche in helping older adults with their finances. So often they were hired by the kids of those older adults to help put the finances in order. And so we started really marketing to those children of older adults that needed this help. And we were writing blogs and we were interviewing clients that we that our CPA had helped. We were interviewing our CPA about the work they do. We did a lot of SEO optimization to get our content in front of the right people, and over the years, we were able to build it up so that we generated about 150 reliable leads every year. So, you know, 12 to 15 a month, something like that. And each of those, uh, Leeds was worth. Um, uh, let me think. Maybe several thousand dollars, like 3 to $5000 at the outset. And then the lifetime gets a little more. So it was a reliable revenue stream. But the reason I like this story, because we can just say we helped them grow and things went great.

Katie Wagner: But the CPA firm actually got acquired recently by a much larger regional firm. And typically when a client gets acquired, that brand would be folded into the new brand. And, you know, our marketing might go away because now they’re going to market as the larger company. But in this particular case, Lee, the the buyer company, said to us, what you’re doing is a valuable revenue stream for us, and we don’t want to change anything. So we want to keep the CPAs website and lead gen system exactly as it is. We’re not going to wrap them in, and we want you to continue to run it. It’ll just be part of the larger company now. And I thought that was a really big win because it showed the value of what we were doing, and that we had created this equity for our client that could live on even as part of a post-acquisition scenario. And it turns out that later on today, I have a call with the larger company to talk about taking over lead gen for the entire company, because the portion we’re running now is going better than their overall strategy. So, um, that’s a story that’s near and dear to my heart because it’s a big win for us.

Lee Kantor: Now, you started in California, but now you have offices here in Atlanta. Can you explain why having a presence in Atlanta was important for your growth?

Katie Wagner: Yeah, yeah. So first of all, I’m from Atlanta. I grew up in Atlanta. I went to Westminster for high school. So Atlanta is home to me. But I moved to Atlanta 15 or sorry, I moved to San Diego 15 years ago when I started the business because I also married my husband and he lived out here. So we did start the company in California. But about.

Katie Wagner: Two.

Katie Wagner: Years in, we opened our Atlanta office, and we’ve had it ever since because we have clients all over the country. And I realized that we needed a presence in both time zones to be able to serve them to the best of our ability. And so, um, so we opened the Atlanta office, and we have a staff and a physical office there, just like we do in California. And then we’ve expanded over the years. So we also have we have two California offices and one in Las Vegas. Um, and I actually split my time between California and Atlanta every other month. So I have, um, home base in both places, and I’m back and forth dealing with our clients. And, you know, it’s unusual for a digital agency to have physical spaces like that, but we’re really invested in building relationships with our clients. And I think it’s really important for us to be able to sit down and meet with them face to face and have them meet the team that’s working on their accounts. And in this post-Covid world, that’s a little bit rare, right? Most of our business is done over zoom these days, and we really felt like it was important to hold on to that personal touch and that that human relationship building that was been has been so important to us over the years.

Lee Kantor: And if somebody wants to learn more, more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Katie Wagner: Yeah, our website would be great. It’s k w s m digital.com. Or you can always find me. Katie Wagner on LinkedIn I’m really responsive there and I would love to chat and just love to brainstorm, even if it doesn’t lead to a working together conversation. I’m passionate about this stuff and I’d love to help you think through marketing things you’re stuck on.

Lee Kantor: Well, Katie, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing important work and we appreciate you.

Katie Wagner: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.