Finding Comfort in the Paw Prints: Understanding Pet Loss and Mental Health Support

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studio in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio, brought to you by Kennesaw State University’s Executive MBA program. The accelerated degree program for working professionals looking to advance their career and enhance their leadership skills. And now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor KSU Executive MBA Program. Without them, we couldn’t be sharing these important stories today on the show. We have the author of the book Where the Paw Prints lead and the leader of the organization, PawPads, Daniel Popovic. Welcome.

Daniel Popovic: Hey, Lee, thanks. I appreciate thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. First, tell us about your company, Pop Heads. How are you serving folks?

Daniel Popovic: Oh, gosh, just getting started. And yeah, we’ll jump into maybe all over the place. I mean, it’s all about pets, right? It’s kind of really, uh, embracing that animal human bond that we have with the pets. Talking about, you know, the resiliency more around mental health. The, the inspiration is really around the book that I launched or published, just published the book, uh, right around Christmas time. So the first two months of this year has been super busy with the, the book launch. Um, and then just kind of how the community is forming. So it’s, it’s kind of changing weekly. It’s not something that I thought would kind of evolve in the way that it has. But you know, it has started with kind of healing and pet loss. And, you know, from me writing about it to heal myself to now helping and supporting others to the impact that they have on our mental health and our well-being. So it’s a growing ecosystem and community at the moment that there’s also an element to that, to it that has an interactive journal that people will be able to start to journal with, you know, just obviously the activities that they do with their pets. So probably a lot to take on there and bounced all bounced all over.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Okay. So, but let’s start at the beginning. So the story begins with you had a pet that passed.

Daniel Popovic: That is correct. Yeah. So where the story begins, Marley was she was a female Doberman, Sherry and I, my wife Sherry, we got her. How long has it been now? It’s probably 11 years ago. She passed when she was nine. So she passed probably about two and a half years ago. And Sherry and I don’t have kids. So she really became our child and took her everywhere. Did everything, you know, with her. Um, Just very much a fur kid. And, you know, as typical with, you know, Dobermans, female Dobermans, you know, they’re protective as well. So just, just an amazing bond and family protector and loved people, you know, loved pets, just a unique personality. And when we lost her, it was kind of a, a soccer punch. One day she’s, she’s with us. She’s okay. The next day we lose her. And the loss wasn’t something that I just thought just how I handled it and how I reacted to it was a significant impact and did not expect the impact, the the way it impacted me, you know, personally, professionally. Uh, and then I just started writing about it. I started doing some research around pet loss and pet grief and just talking to other people, hearing other stories, and just learning about how, how profound of an impact it is. Um, and you know what it kind of means what it does to, to you and how it is different, right? I’ve, I’ve lost a father, I’ve lost jobs, I’ve lost a lot of money to companies. And this impact really, um, took a, it.

Lee Kantor: Hit, it hit differently. Um, and some of it, I would imagine, um, correct me if I’m wrong on this regard, but the way a dog especially is interwoven in your life, it affects the rhythm of your day. Like there are certain rituals that you do that maybe you take for granted when you stop doing them, and all of a sudden they become very visible. Uh, can you talk about how maybe that, um, contributed to some of the grief and it made the grief maybe hit differently.

Daniel Popovic: That yeah, no, that that’s a great point that I mean, and you’re spot on. It’s that void, right? You’ve got, gosh, as you mentioned, it interweaves our daily activities. There’s a handful of things that they really hold us accountable for, right? The, the feeding, the daily activities of walking. But, you know, obviously not every dog might go on a walk. You might have more of a couch potato dog, but there’s an activity, there’s a routine there. Um, you know, the feeding, um, you know, but then you’ve got that companionship, right? So you come home from a rough day of work. Um, you are expecting, you know, what’s about to greet you in that door opens. Um, and it’s the phenomenal relief of, you know what? My day just washed away because of that greeting. And when that greetings gone to your point, the day doesn’t wash away. It still kind of carries itself forward. Those other routines, it, it, it is an emptiness. It’s now, well, how do I, what do I do? How do I fill this emptiness? Because, you know, some of the research I started doing, like these routines, you know, they, they were creatures of habits. They’re creatures of habits. We create this routine where it takes 2 to 5 months and we just do it right.

Daniel Popovic: And then all of a sudden, when it’s gone, it’s gone. It takes time for that to. Settle. It takes time for us to figure out what to do. And that’s where I started talking with a lot of folks that, you know, a lot of people will rush right into another pet because of those those voids. Um, some folks will kind of go into hiding, right? Because they, they, they’re grieving. They don’t know how to talk about it. There’s not really an outlet because, you know, pet grief doesn’t really have a voice. And you might be somebody else might look at you and like, hey, that’s just a dog. It’s like, well, no, it’s not a dog. Um, so it’s those voids that you mentioned that. Yeah. Now that void is gone and I’m trying to figure out how to fill it, you know, not knowing the impact of it. With Sherry and I, it was a little bit different. Um, and this is another thing that’s kind of led me down this path as well. We Marshall, um, was her brother, so we still have him. He actually turns 11 next week. So we’re, you know, we’re in joy. You know, he’s a Doberman as well. And Dobermans don’t typically make it, you know, past ten years. So we’re excited about every extra day that we get with him.

Daniel Popovic: But not only are we grieving, but what we don’t recognize is the pet grief. They grieve as well. And we didn’t notice that with him in the first couple of days. I mean, I was trying the main thing I was trying to do and what I share with other folks is keep with the routine, even when that that pet is no longer around, that routine is no longer around. Keep with it that that’s a way to kind of heal yourself, to slow yourself out of it, because it is an abrupt halt to, you know, to your life, to your, to your well-being. Um, but what we recognized with Marshall, I think it was a couple days later, he started looking for her. So we started noticing, okay, now we got to do something about that. We’ve got to figure out how do we how do we keep him from sliding from a health perspective? Um, so naturally we went out and got another one, which helped and that certainly distracted him. But um, Lee, as you mentioned, it’s those voids, right? It’s that, it’s that unknown or the hidden void of those activities that we do every single day with them. Now it’s gone and it’s extremely disruptive to our lifestyle.

Lee Kantor: So how did the book come about? Was that just part of your healing process? You started writing and journaling and just capturing some of these feelings on paper?

Daniel Popovic: Yeah, yeah, that, that. Yeah. Spot on. That was my healing process. And between you and I, I, I didn’t imagine it going much further than that. But I, you know, the main thing was the healing process. But also, I think the bigger thing for me is it was a way to keep her closer. I, I didn’t want to lose sight of some of the amazing memories and some of the amazing ventures. I mean, obviously, yes, we’ve got all kinds of pictures. Um, you know, that helps. But the writing, the journaling seemed to kind of take it a to the next level. You know, it helped me heal. It helped keep me closer. Um, and from there, I then, and it was, it was funny because I had no structure behind the book. I would sit down one Saturday morning, four hours later, I’ve got 20,000 words. Um, so the writing was easy and all of a sudden within a month, I had, gosh, I had 70,000 words. And I’m like, hang on, there’s a book here. Uh, so I kind of did that. Then I went backwards and I started to structure it and I started talking to folks and I’m like, um, there were two words that people kept talking about when they read what I was putting together. Um, you know, I was trying to capture some beta readers, some feedback because, you know, as I started writing, it was healing me.

Daniel Popovic: But then I started thinking, hey, can my stories help somebody else? And there were two words that people kept saying. One was emotional, which of course it’s going to be right, because I do talk about the loss and the impact in there, but I spend more time talking about the fun stories, the funny routines that we had. And everybody kept coming back saying, this is relatable, this is relatable. And naturally, everybody that has pets, it’s like, you know, you’ve taken them on vacations, you have goofy stories that you’ve had with them. And that’s where it went from. Me just writing a book to heal myself became a little bit more of a movement that, how can I leverage this story to help others that have grieved or that, you know, are might be experiencing loss? Um, there’s, there’s a community around this, but, um, that’s kind of how it’s now evolving. And I launched a podcast as well, where I bring families in basically to talk about their pets. Um, everybody on the episodes that I’ve had so far has lost a pet. So we talk about that and it’s really meant to kind of inspire others to support others, but then help others that maybe that haven’t lost a pet yet. Just kind of prepare them, so to speak, even though you can’t be prepared, but you still want to kind of, you want to have that awareness because when, when that, you know, when that happens, it is a significant impact.

Daniel Popovic: But, um, so it has evolved from, yeah, just me writing bunches of pages to heal myself to now, um, you know, leveraging this, uh, to create a community to support, to help others. And, um, and there’s even bigger impacts like mental health, the, you know, just having pets in your family. This is an astonishing you may or may not know this, I. You know, there’s, uh, a hobby which is a human animal bond research institute. They had a, uh, some research recently where they showed pet ownership saves $22 billion in healthcare costs. And that’s astounding. Now, when I say that and when you when you hear it, or if you would read it, you’re thinking, okay, what do you mean by healthcare costs? Is it is that, you know, healthcare savings on my pet? And I was like, no, that’s healthcare savings on you and I, right? Because, you know, you’ve got things like obesity in there, right? We’re more active with them, but it’s also the mental health association. That’s the significant benefit in how they they support our mental well-being. So I feel like I’m only scratching the surface with how this story has started to unfold.

Lee Kantor: Well, maybe you can give some advice for the listeners out there when it comes to building community. So how did that come about? Where? Okay, I’m publishing a book. Obviously, this is an issue that a lot of people can relate to. How do you take that next step to kind of organizing, serving, and kind of curating a community of like minded people, you know, for a common cause?

Daniel Popovic: Yeah, no, no. Great, great question. So this may, this may answer it. It may not. But what you made me think of when you asked that and mentioned businesses, obviously with businesses listening in on this is you’ve got workplace wellness programs, right? Um, and kind of giving what I say pet grief, pet support, pet loss of voice. And, you know, there’s a lot of great workplace wellness programs out there, but they’re really geared towards you and I towards our health, but it doesn’t recognize or support when somebody loses a pet, you know what happens? How can I support that individual? Because they may need to take time off, right? They’re going to if they’re not taking time off and they’re coming in. Their productivity levels may, may, may be impacted. Um, you know, I had a similar thing happen with me when I lost Marly and this was kind of another part of my inspiration is my leadership at the time was, hey, Dan, we noticed you’re kind of off. You don’t seem the same. What’s going on? And I’m like, are you kidding me? I just kind of told I told you the other day what happened. Uh, do you not understand the impact of on me? Um, so creating more awareness around that. I had a, I had somebody on my podcast, actually, she was one of my very first interviews, the place that she worked at.

Daniel Popovic: She had mentioned her leadership came to her and said, hey, look, if you need time off to grieve, take it. We’re here. What can we do to support you? We understand what that loss means to you, you know, so creating more, you know, workplace wellness programs to kind of support, you know, the families and kind of put a spotlight on this and what it means. And, you know, to have them in our lives, not only to have them in our lives, but the potential impact. Um, when they’re gone. The other thing that I saw some companies do, but their paws at work, there’s this company in the UK, they actually come out to all of the companies, all of the companies. I shouldn’t say it like that. They come out to companies and they bring out for kids. They bring out puppies for a half a day, a few hours, and it’s, it’s for workplace stress relief, so to speak. So just imagine, you know, working in the office, busy as heck. But then all of a sudden, hey, at lunchtime, let’s go hang out and play with the fur kids. And that, that feeling and what that does to kind of wash over relief, um, wash, wash away some of the stress.

Daniel Popovic: Um, it’s things like that that I’m starting to see happen a little bit more in, in various pockets in various areas. So to me, that’s part of, you know, creating that community for kids is a great example. They’re a phenomenal organization here in Atlanta, and I do believe they do events like that. They’ve just started doing that where they will come out to corporations with pets and provide that kind of companionship. Um, but naturally, obviously, you know, they want you to, you know, some way foster rescue and all that stuff. And, and I think it starts to, I think there’s more education around just really, truly what it means having them as a part of our family, what, you know, we know again, about the physical benefits, but it’s really the mental benefits that we get from them that, um, you know, really kind of strengthen us and carry us forward, even with children, right? If you think about younger people or children that may have anxiety or social isolation, pets tend to kind of bring them out of it. Um, so that’s kind of how the community starts to form is around, you know, activities like that. You know, education, you know, kind of like what you and I are talking about.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Daniel Popovic: Oh, gosh, just more and more of stuff like this, more of, of creating the awareness. And that’s a great question because what’s, what’s interesting is I reached out to a few rotary clubs today to kind of get out and engage, do some speaking engagements around this. Um, I did a book signing event with fur kids a couple weeks ago. They leveraged it as a fundraiser, which is phenomenal. That’s spot on, how it should be done. We had, um, a pretty sizable crowd come out, very interactive. And it was just a day of recognizing the bond and what it means and obviously talking about loss. Um, so I think it’s just that’s kind of the things that I need is, you know, uh, more opportunities to get, Get this in front of of leaders. Start talking about it. Um. How we can kind of start to put some of these programs together to. You know, just embrace what it means to have pets, um, as a part of. You know, our families, um, everybody should have a pet, you know? Not to sound corny or anything, but, um, you know, but I’m also not going to sit here and say you’re not going to have challenging days.

Daniel Popovic: Um, but you know, those challenging days, you take them in stride and it’s more they make you a better person. Um, I can tell you Marley has inspired me to do a lot. I’ve done some interesting business, entrepreneurial things, um, from a technology perspective with pet care and rewarding people. So they’re, they’re inspirational, they’re supportive. Um, I’ve had people talk about how they’ve healed them through breakups, um, but then reunited with, you know, their wife after they previously broke up. So, um, I think to, you know, again, going back to answer your question is, is there any opportunity to get out in front of some of these, you know, civic organizations and some of these wellness programs to come out and talk about this and, um, how to create more synergies between the, for kids of the world’s, you know, the Atlanta Humane Society’s of the world and these organizations to, um, to do some of these events and just kind of the education around the mental health benefits that, um, come from pet ownership.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to get Ahold of the book or join your community, is there a website? Is there kind of a central location that can answer some questions for folks?

Daniel Popovic: Yeah. So it’s pop dot pet just pop up. Every pet has a pop ad, right? So pop dot pet, um, that will then take them to the website. They’ll see a link to the podcast where they can hear about some of these amazing stories. Um, and I’ve got one tomorrow that I’m doing with somebody that wrote this book called A Field Guide for Pet Care Givers. Um, there is a whole new there’s a whole movement around end of life care for pets. Um, which, um, is really interesting looking at that. You know, you see a lot of innovation around the end of life care for like you and I in aging adults, but you don’t think about that with pets. Um, but sorry, going back to your questions, pop, pop dot pet, you’ll see a link to the podcast and you’ll also see a link to the book, uh, and it’s on Amazon so you can search by my name, Daniel Popovic, um, and find a link to that book. And I’ve just started writing book number two. Um, so I’m kind of excited to get that out. And it’s just the feedback that I’ve been getting from everybody that’s inspiring me to, to write these books. And like I said, it’s different. It’s just more Storytelling. It’s it’s bringing people in. I mean, it’s, it’s nervous at the same time because you’re getting a really sneak peek into into my heart and how I operate because I kind of spill it out in the books.

Daniel Popovic: Um, you know, and then I have, but I have reflective questions in there as well to kind of draw people in that, um, you know, for example, um, if we’ve got time to share what might the, this first book where the paw prints lead, I lead with an episode with Marshall where he flipped his stomach. I was on an office call, right? Shari comes running up and she’s like, something’s wrong with Marshall. Something’s wrong with Marshall. And I’m like, you know, I, I kind of, you know, Pooh poohed it off, right? Because I was on a call. But luckily the call ended. And then I walked down and I’m like, okay, something’s visibly visibly wrong with him. So we’re calling around and they’re like, you need to get him to the E.R. right away. And you know, we’re in North Georgia. We’re way up here, you know, by, uh, the Dawsonville Outlets up 400 and closest air was 30 minutes away. And this was a Friday. You know, end of day. So you’ve got rush hour. Now, granted, I’m heading south. So you’re thinking that there’s not going to be rush hour way up here.

Daniel Popovic: Well what happens? There’s an accident of all things that I’m right behind. And, um, luckily it’s moving, but on both sides of the street, there’s a police officer and a tow truck attendant. They’re converging into the intersection to block it off. And Li, I was like, heck no, I’m not stopping. You’re gonna have to do something to make me stop. I kind of broke through it, and I just flew down to exit ten to get him to the E.R. and, you know, she saved his life. I mean, that’s one of those life saving things. But that’s that’s one of, you know, obviously there’s other stories, you know, stories in there just talking about fun stuff, but there’s reflective questions in there that as you read the story, it then makes you think about, hey, how did you handle a stressful situation? What was the outcome? Um. I mean, you know, I was panicking because I knew that was a thing of life or death, uh, with a flip stomach. And, um, but that’s kind of how the book is strung out that just, you know, putting the heart out there and the things that we experience, the, the good things, the, you know, the challenging things, but then the reflective questions to draw the audience in.

Lee Kantor: Well, congratulations on all the momentum. I’m sorry that this tragedy is what spurred this, but it’s important work that you’re doing and we appreciate you for doing it. And the website one more time is papads dot p a w p a d s dot p e t. Dan Popovic, thank you so much for sharing your story today.

Daniel Popovic: Thank you Lee, I appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.