Jonathan Richter With Winnona Partners

Intro: [00:00:04] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio brought to you by on pay Atlanta’s new standard in payroll. Now here’s your host

Lee Kantor: [00:00:24] Lee Kantor here another episode of Atlanta Business Radio, and this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor on pay. Without them, we couldn’t be sharing these important stories today on the Atlanta Business Radio. We have Jonathan Richter with Winnona Partners. Welcome, Jonathan.

Jonathan Richter: [00:00:43] Hey, Lee, thanks so much for having me on.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:45] Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Wenonah. How are you serving, folks?

Jonathan Richter: [00:00:50] Yeah. Well, thanks for asking. And love your audience. By the way, I’ve got some stuff for established business owners here, and hopefully some great tips and resources for startups and entrepreneur crowd, too. So, you know, we really found that a lot of business owners are paying way too much for software that isn’t fitting their specific business process. Sort of Salesforce, HubSpot big enterprise systems like that. So we’re helping them transform their business by building custom software so they can become leaders in their industry and save money as they scale.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:25] Now, for the listeners out there who hasn’t explored custom software, I would imagine when they get started, it’s kind of easier to go off the rack and just kind of adjust your systems and processes to these big, huge enterprise softwares that seem to be doing most of what I need. Maybe not perfectly, but kind of in the right way. Can you talk about kind of the trade offs you’re making when you make that choice?

Jonathan Richter: [00:01:51] Totally. And that’s that’s a huge roadblock. I think people hear custom software and, you know, they just kind of draw a blank, you know, like, what does that mean, right? Custom software can be anything from a custom website, a mobile app or a custom CRM customer relationship management system or lead management system. And you’re totally right that when you’re starting off, I think a lot of businesses, you know, maybe they don’t perfectly know their business process yet, right? So I kind of consider the Salesforce and the HubSpot and those ready CRM is the term that you can use to describe those kind of off the shelf SAS platforms, almost like a Band-Aid in a way which can be really great. It can be really powerful as you’re getting started, but the issues come in when you start to scale right and you start to see the pain points in the pricing of those platforms, especially when you get to about 30 employees or so. And certainly if you hit one hundred, you know, employees who need access to those platforms, suddenly you might be paying, you know, five, ten thousand a month just to access and have access to those platforms features you might not even need or know how to use or implement. So it starts to become very expensive and really, you’re just kind of paying for seats as they call them, right? So which costs these platforms, you know, probably fractions of a penny, right, to actually include a new user on, but they’ll charge one hundred dollars to add someone new.

Jonathan Richter: [00:03:27] So that’s where it really starts to become a pain point, I think for people is when you start to grow as a business and you realize, Oh my God, we’re just we’re tossing money away on these platforms that aren’t fully aligned with our business process. And the question starts to come well, what if we could build something proprietary? But then again, a lot of people don’t even know where to start with that stuff. So that’s where we come in. You know, we’re here to help people walk through the process, map out their business process and identify ways that we could streamline or automate that process with a custom system that we can make them that actually fits their business process. Not like, Oh, your business process has to kind of you have to fudge that to make it work, you know, with something we’ve pre-built like, no, not at all. What is your dream scenario for how to run your business? And we can make the software do just that.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:24] Now, as I can imagine, the challenge is so these companies, when they’re starting out, if they go with these enterprise, these big name SAS solutions, they make it work, they grow. Despite that, maybe. And then there’s all this pain now of I got all the sunk cost. I have the pain of change and this digital transformation that I don’t know. I mean, it’s hard enough to just kind of manage the business with the chaos that has entails, but to switch over to a new system, even though it’s custom and it fits me perfectly. That pain, I would think, would scare off some people and they just keep kind of buying. The bullet and paying paying that monthly as it keeps increasing, and they know that there’s probably a better solution out there, but they’re kind of afraid maybe of that transition cost.

Jonathan Richter: [00:05:15] Yeah, well, you definitely hit the nail on the head. And if I don’t know if you’ve ever read Michael Gerber’s book The E-Myth or Beyond The E-Myth, are you familiar with? Sure. Yeah. His whole thing is right. Like, you need to not work just in your business. You need to work on your business, right? And that’s sort of his mantra. And he made a whole career out of that, you know, way before technology was even developed like what we have today. So people get so stuck in the day to day and we get that and we see that every day, right? But why is it important? Why could custom software development help you out, right? I mean, a lot of times when people call this, you know, our clients, we try to steer them away from trying to, you know, come up with the tech solution themselves. It would be great if the system could do a, b and C rather than that. Just like, tell us what the problem is like, what’s the problem that your business that you’re facing with your business? And then we can try to help come up with the right tech solution that can work for you? And you know, the reason custom software is great is because it can be one of those almost set it and forget it kind of things, you know, if you can really build the automation, right? It’s like now it’s not a recurring problem that is like, you know, distracting you every day, taking you away from other important things.

Jonathan Richter: [00:06:28] If we can do it right, it’s just going to start working and it’s really that set it and forget it thing that is terrific. Then also, again, the saving the money as you scale. I mean, it’s a bigger upfront cost typically, of course, to develop your own custom software system. But you know, within a year, in some cases, especially if you have 100 or so users that need to use the platform, you know, within a year or so, you can already start seeing returns on that monthly. I mean, we can take that down from, you know, tens of thousands of dollars a month, in some cases down to, you know, several hundred at the most. So it becomes a huge difference long term. And also, you can just invest in something proprietary, right? I mean, have your own having your own system. You know, the top dogs all do that like, you know, they’re all going to build something that works for them. And there’s something really special. And you can have a lot of pride in knowing that you’ve got your own system. And that’s something that will sort of make their make your competitors kind of shake in their boots a little bit.

Lee Kantor: [00:07:33] Now, I’m sure the name of your firm, Winona Partners Partners, is an important component of this because you are truly a partner with your clients. This is a case where they have to. In most cases, I would think, really trust you as an advisor and a partner to help them with a solution that does fit them. Exactly. Exactly right. Not kind of right. Not almost right, but it just really you. You both have to work hand in glove in order to make this work. So you really got to get into their business to truly understand it so you can come up with some sort of a digital solution that’s going to serve them and help them with their automation and help them really achieve the goals that they’re aiming at.

Jonathan Richter: [00:08:17] That’s that’s totally correct. And a lot of times the planning, that’s actually the part that we really enjoy even more than the coding of the applications, right? It’s cool when we find the solutions, but we love the strategy part and luckily there’s great sort of mapping. I keep talking about business process and mapping, right? Just actually it’s as simple as just box to box. How does the transition, how does the transaction work? You know, what’s our organization structure? And there’s like a system lucid chart, and I think they even have a free tier out there. Great flexible system for being able to just map out your process on kind of a grid interface. Google draw another free option to kind of map out your process or just good old fashioned whiteboard and piece of paper, right? Can you draw out how a transaction happens in your business from A to B, you know, or A to Z? So these are the kind of things, and so much of it is the strategy, the upfront kind of strategic work that we have to do before a line of code is written and we want that verified and approved so we can blend mocking things up. And yeah, it’s become easier than ever to get something kind of spun up its own branch, you know, test branches and stuff that we can give people kind of sneak peeks of how things look sort of like minimum viable products before we even have to do a lot of the advanced backend logic that sometimes is required. So. But yeah, it’s it’s really just a great time to consider custom software because it’s getting more and more cost effective.

Jonathan Richter: [00:09:48] And in terms of design, right? Because I know a lot of people are super visual and they’re like, Well, I want to know how, how is it going to look, you know, I mean, we build a lot of stuff over with react and front end open source framework called material you. Which is basically, you know, if you like the way that Google looks and the things that Google puts out. Google Drive, Gmail, et cetera, material UI is you’re going to love how that looks. I mean, everything we make looks really slick, super easy to use. And if you have like a theme template like you have your branding colors, et cetera, there’s even awesome demo version of Material UI site where we can plug that stuff in and just see how it’s going to look like. See how a sort of a preview of how your application is going to look like mode, dark mode, et cetera, and it even spits out the code. So it’s really bridging the gap between designers and developers. So for a really lean team like Wenonah Partners, that’s great because we can just take some branding colors, throw that stuff in and give people previews of what to expect pretty quickly. And it looks familiar and it feels familiar because you’re using things built on material UI every day, whether you know it or not. So it’s gotten really, really know much more cost effective, and it’s just a great time to consider it. So now we don’t want custom software. Oh, sorry, sorry to interrupt you there now.

Lee Kantor: [00:11:14] Well, just walk us through what an onboarding would look like. Like, say, I’m one of these people. I have legacy software, you know, we’ve been making due for a while, but it’s time we’re going to pull the Band-Aid off. So so what is that kind of what are some of the questions you’re asking me to onboard me in order to make this as seamless and as you know, with as little disruption as possible to my business?

Jonathan Richter: [00:11:41] Absolutely. Yeah. So we always do like to know which features you were really using of the other systems that you really like to use. Maybe you really liked the way a timeline worked or they did have some levels of automation in place that you really, you know, were vital to your business and you really enjoy. And so those are the kind of things that are really good to know up front, like sort of what are the must have features? And then also just, you know, we always ask people to consider how much they’re spending on those third party platforms because ultimately our mission is to save you money long term with software, right? We want it to not only work better, we want this to be cost effective for you in the long run. So being able to calculate, you know, is this worth it? That’s just as important as you know to us as it is to you. We don’t want to just like, take your money and give you something that is just not even doing anything as well as you had before. So it’s a lot of strategy. It’s mapping out that process, like we said, and just trying to find ways that we can automate when possible.

Jonathan Richter: [00:12:47] That could be as simple as working. We love working in sprints as well, so trying to deliver things and, you know, a month or two months or something like that and just taking things step by step, it could be as simple as just being, you know, build a simple invoicing system to like, automate your invoicing. It could be something just like a simple database automating your emails for, you know, when new leads come in or when new tasks are happening or something more involved, like, OK, I have several different types of transactions. I’m running and I know that there are deadlines and documents that are needed certain, you know, at certain times, if we all we need is some basic details that you can provide and we can just, you know, boom automate a whole sort of timeline approach to to how to make that transaction happen. So you’re not having to like add things and deadlines and requirements onto Google Calendar. All that stuff can just start happening for you, right? That’s a huge time saver. And you’re also taking a lot of air out of the equation.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:52] So and then you’re not. It’s not something that I have to say, OK, I’m going to change my entire website. You might be able to just work on maybe a web funnel or something like that to just slowly kind of organically change my website.

Jonathan Richter: [00:14:11] Yes, absolutely. We love to. It’s I sort of say to integrate or to innovate, right? So there’s there’s always the case where sometimes it is really good, like, you know, MailChimp, like we don’t want to completely reinvent the wheel in terms of, you know, I think MailChimp is a great example of something, you know, if you’re building an email list and they have a nice, you know, user interface for the not as tech savvy people, but you know, it’s still it’s a great interface for being able to build cool emails that look great and stuff. And that’s the kind of thing where you might want to keep that that type of system or functionality, but we can still build that in. Whether it’s to your website or whether it’s to sort of a backend administration system, these are the kind of things that we can do. Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:59] And then is it can I look at you as? It’s kind of a CTO, a fractional CTO, that you’re helping me kind of with the tech side of my business so I can focus in on the the business side of my business.

Jonathan Richter: [00:15:14] Yes, definitely. And my business partner Chris Waterbury, is he he is, you know, coding genius and can think a million steps ahead from a tech perspective, which is great. But yes, we love to be sort of the technical extension. You know, we like to be thought of as your personal developers, you can call us up and just be like, Hey, I got a problem here, you know, I got I need a b and C, how can we do this? And you know, we’ll we’ll take that action plan. We’ll ask the follow up questions if needed. And then we come to you with, you know, tech solution in mind. Budget timeline, et cetera. And then we just get right to work and we have a really fast turnaround. All our stuff super elegant and we just like to think steps ahead and just try to really deliver for our clients. So yeah, the best thing is no more having to like. If you’re in HubSpot, you’re really frustrated. Like, where is this feature? Why do they keep hiding it in different places or they’re moving it? Or I just don’t even know what all these features are, or I actually need to contact someone on support just to figure out how to build a list and do all the things I need.

Jonathan Richter: [00:16:20] Rather than that, just call us up, tell us what you’re struggling with, and we’ll just make you know, we’ll just make something really obvious for you. I kind of call this like almost the lens of reduction, right? I think a lot of these other enterprise SAS systems have feature overload and functionality overload, and it becomes really overwhelming. Right. But if you kind of think of a lens reduction, it’s not like, how many features can I add? It’s like, Well, how much can we actually take away? Are there complete steps in your process that we can just skip or overhaul completely and just have that happening in the back, the back end? So, yeah, I would love to be thought of as kind of like the technical extension of your business. Yeah, it doesn’t have to be long term. You know, sometimes it’s a handoff, right? We come in when we do something great. And if you have some in-house folks that can take it from there, we’re always happy to do a handoff.

Lee Kantor: [00:17:12] But yeah, I think a lot of these, I think a lot of these SAS companies that you’re paying, you know, whatever a monthly and a license, they feel obligated to help you more by coming up with more stuff. And a lot of times what you wanted was just the first thing that they came up with. You don’t want the more stuff part and the more stuff part is overwhelming and confusing and creating more problems than it’s solving because I just wanted that the three things that it did initially and that that project creep that happens from there and in order, I mean, their intention is to show more value and provide more value. But a lot of times it just becomes muddling up the situation.

Jonathan Richter: [00:17:55] Yes, that’s definitely what we found, and it’s almost just refreshing, right, like, oh, now I just have a system and I know exactly where everything is and what everything is because it’s all I need. There’s not a bunch of unnecessary stuff. I mean, I really think the amount of sort of extra tabs and extra features that are just around that you’re having. You know, you are subconsciously skipping over those things. I mean, that is whether it’s fractions of a second or not. That time really adds up and it’s all just distracting. Right? If there’s not something, if you’re looking at an interface and there’s something on there that’s not just directly helping you or a feature that you absolutely need to help your business scratch it, get rid of it or put it elsewhere. But I think so much of those systems, it just becomes information overload. And I mean, we have enough of that in our face every day as it is. So, yeah, we love just building sleek, easy to view systems and again, ones that are cost effective for four people. And we can start real, simple and small and just try to solve immediate problems and then just kind of build as needed.

Lee Kantor: [00:19:08] Now let’s try to educate our listeners about this business process, mapping and modeling process. You know, you talked about it. You say that’s the beginning of a lot of your work. It starts there. But a person who hasn’t really spent time mapping their process, they know what their process is, but maybe it’s never been written down. How would you go about you mentioned some software earlier? I think Lucid Chart and Google draw to the beginning of the mapping this out. But how would you even begin the process of mapping out of process? Do you just like it seems like there’s lots of processes I wouldn’t even know where to start.

Jonathan Richter: [00:19:50] Yeah, and and there are a lot of actors, right? I mean, it’s you have to think sort of from the customer perspective and you have to think from the sort of business owner perspective or, you know, the employee who’s helping that client, right? So the best thing is and we have to do this every time we build applications anyway, right? We have to think about, OK, I’m I’m a user who’s just getting on to a platform like if it’s for a mobile app, right? What is my user flow screen by screen? What do I have to do? How many clicks does it take to get me to purchase something? So it really has to start with the most, the most, you know, barebones and basic thing. What is the customer journey? And that is that’s the first thing to map out is just from a to B. Exactly how does something work? You know, I’m a customer. What’s my onboarding process and a one single box for every stage or every screen they have to go on is one really good approach.

Lee Kantor: [00:20:53] But do you start at the beginning or do you start at the end?

Jonathan Richter: [00:20:58] Yeah, that might depend on how how complicated your business process is or or how you think about it. I mean, typically, I like to just start at the beginning. But yeah, as you’re going through, you might be like, Oh, well, actually, there’s a few different options, right? They could do a or B, there could be some, some splits there. So yeah, in some cases, working from the end backwards might might also be effective. But a lot of times it’s just kind of like, tell us how a transaction works. And it’s a lot of iterations, right? No one gets it right the first time. So it’s it’s always a conversation, almost just like we’re having here and there’s a lot of bounce back. And then once we at least see some kind of timeline, we can then go into the details, right? We don’t expect everyone to get this stuff right. Even if you really know your process, you might know it so well that you’re omitting things. That to you is obvious information. But to an outsider like I’m I’ve never worked with a trucking fleet, you know, company in this capacity. So, you know, there’s things that are obvious to you being in the industry that are just totally over my head. So, you know, once we see at least some general outline of how a transaction work or what the transaction types are, that gives us at least a talking point, you know, a starting point. I love the book Thinking Fast and Slow.

Jonathan Richter: [00:22:22] By Daniel Kahneman And he always says what you see is all there is. And that’s kind of my mantra because, you know, I got to see it on paper. And unless there’s some kind of documentation, some type of map, then I just have no, you know, we’re just talking and it’s very vague. So just getting something on paper, that’s business process mapping how your how your process works today. Modeling is the next step. Modeling is when you get in and you actually say, OK, we’ve got sort of a complete. Picture of what’s going on now, where are some things that we can probably automate or streamline or sort of cut out entirely? Right. And that’s the modeling stage that’s kind of thinking ahead, but mapping is what you should do first. Don’t try to think too far ahead of like, you know, necessarily where you want things to go in the future. First step is just map it out and then we can figure out, OK, that gives us an idea of how things are working today. Then we can start the modeling process, which is actually like, OK, let’s explore if the transaction were this way or what if we cut out this stage of the transaction? Or could we bundle these stages together? So these are the types of things that we do. So it is a lot of strategy. Before again, a single line of code is written. But we want to do things right and take a very diligent approach.

Lee Kantor: [00:23:48] Now we’re talking a lot about the nuts and bolts of the website. Does your work spill over into kind of some of the strategies, the content strategies that impact how much traffic is coming to the website? You know how many conversions are coming to the website? Are the right people seeing this stuff or the wrong people seeing this stuff? What changes do I have to do from an SEO standpoint or is that outside of the scope of your work?

Jonathan Richter: [00:24:14] I love discussing that because I’ve found that businesses big and small are all. Everyone wants more traffic. Everyone is always trying to, you know, grow their grow their online presence, especially if you have an online business. It’s super important. So content strategy is something I’m very passionate about. All my blog posts are usually between two and three thousand words, which sounds like a lot. But the majority, I think something like 90 95, or it might even be 98 percent of blog posts that are written are 300 words or less. Right? That is like not very much content, but the top Google for any Google search. The top page results are almost all in that two to two to three thousand word range. So that just goes to show you I mean, the more content that you can write on a specific topic, the better it is. And there are some people who have tremendous, tremendous writings and articles about this. I love founder magazine. They have tons of resources about content strategy. I know I was kind of talking bad about HubSpot earlier, but HubSpot’s blog is great.

Jonathan Richter: [00:25:23] It’s all about inbound marketing. I mean, if you can build really effective blogs that people are organically, I’ve never heard of Wenonah Partners, but if they go and they search business process integration, we show up as one of the top results on there for my article on what is business process integration that is free. I’m not paying to show up for that, but because I’ve, you know, taken a lot of time and worked on the content very diligently, I’ve created an inbound marketing approach, so I’m not having to pay for advertising. It’s my time that it takes to write those articles and come up with that quality content. But if you can write just the best, the best thing out there on whatever topic it is, you can get that traffic. So founder magazine HubSpot blog back Lanco by Brian Deane, who just got bought out. Actually, he has terrific resources, also very long form content based on how to, like, get more backlinks, how to increase and improve your SEO. Neil Patel and then, of course, Wenonah Partners blog, too.

Lee Kantor: [00:26:30] Now what is something? If you were maybe a business that’s been around for a while, maybe things are plateauing, maybe you’re in a little bit of a rut. Maybe you know you’re tired of saying the same thing over and over. Maybe you’re getting you’re getting bored, but maybe your customer or prospective customer isn’t. But maybe you are. What is some low hanging fruit you can be doing today? Is there anything you can think of that’s actionable today right now for the listener to do today that might kind of move the needle on their website or in their business?

Jonathan Richter: [00:27:02] Absolutely. I think it’s also always worth pointing out that you have about three seconds to get somebody’s attention when they go on your website. I mean, it has really reduced people’s attention. Span is like a snap, right? So when someone comes to your website, the header text needs to be absolutely clear what you do. And this is something where people, they try to use really flowery, flowery kind of language and try to be very poetic or or kind of almost elusive and mysterious or something. Know like go to our go to our website, you know, part XCOM. What does it say? The first words custom software development that transforms the way you do business, right? If nothing else, someone has three seconds. I want them to remember, OK? Custom software development. You know, first words, they’re right. And that’s just a huge mistake. Believe it or not, that’s one thing is just checking to make sure. Or that your header text is absolutely clear exactly what service you’re offering and that you’re telling your story right under that, you want to definitely make sure that you’re hitting the problems, right? What happens if somebody doesn’t, you know, doesn’t, doesn’t do, doesn’t have the service that you’re offering or the product right? You want to really paint the picture of what their life will look like without your service.

Jonathan Richter: [00:28:21] And then also what it’ll look like, you know, at the other end of the rainbow, like what happens when your dreams come true, right? Your website has to do all of that quickly and very, very effectively. So your home page is absolutely the most important after that. I think the frequently asked questions page. Believe it or not, it’s not considered maybe the most sort of sexy page out there, but it’s actually one of the most important in terms of drawing traffic and organic traffic and SEO. If you write really good, frequently ask questions, you are directly answering the questions people are asking on Google every day. And I’m also a classical guitarist on the side, so I have a classical guitar website and I rank extremely high for all kinds of pages like I have a classical guitar composers page that has a list of composers, and then each one of those links out to a different composer sort of biography. Essentially, I’ve just modeled it off of Wikipedia. So if you’re wondering, well, I don’t know how to write all this content stuff or where to get started, it’s like, OK, we’ll just take one topic that your business covers.

Jonathan Richter: [00:29:29] Check out what Wikipedia does, how do they structure all the page, the page and all the sub pages from that? And can you recreate that in your own way with your own case, studies your own language and really answer even the most basic questions people probably have about your business? Because again, a lot of times you’re thinking you’re so into your business that all this terminology, even though I said CRM and all that stuff that might be right away, I have no idea what you’re talking about, right? So things that you think about and talk about every day to an outsider are going to be completely foreign and you’re almost speaking another language. So you need to really, really dumb it down. Boil it down. Don’t try to sound too smart on your website. Really use just simple, easy language. And that’s my biggest tip right there. I mean, you have three seconds to get someone’s attention. You need to capture that in the header with exactly what your service is, not a ton of moving text and sliding stuff around. Just it needs to be really, really clear and then hit those pain points and just make it like a no brainer, like, Oh my god, I’ve got to get this or else

Lee Kantor: [00:30:42] Now in your business, you mentioned, you know, your experts in custom software. Is there a niche that you work in or are you? Is it? Does it matter? Is it industry agnostic or do you specialize?

Jonathan Richter: [00:30:58] We’ve helped various sort of different types of people. Real estate has been a real effective one and then mortgage company as well. We’ve really helped helped automate a lot of their process, and they have several hundred employees nationwide, you know, all using different systems and and even in some cases passing around pieces of paper, right? Just to get things done and try to track what’s going on. And and so that these are the kind of things that are great, right? When it’s just like, OK, wow, you actually have some manual process rather than trying to keep track of all these deadlines and requirements and all that stuff, let’s just build that logic in once and now everyone’s calling every part of the process the same thing, right? Everyone’s on the same system. So all this information, all this data is being collected in one place. Right? I mean, it just it can it really can transform your business when you have if you have especially multiple branches that are all kind of doing their own thing, you know, it’s really worth considering. Should we build something in-house where we can put all this stuff together. And you know, it just not only streamlines your process, there’s also just a really good sense of just like, OK, everyone’s using this the right way and we know where everything is. We’re collecting all the right data, all the right information, and it’s just refreshing to know that everything is being taken care of.

Lee Kantor: [00:32:27] Amen to that. Now, if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you or somebody on your team, what’s the website?

Jonathan Richter: [00:32:35] Yeah, just when. No, no partners, Wynona partners and we all actually grew up. We went to Wenonah Park Elementary School in Decatur, Georgia, together, so we’ve been friends since we were five years old. So yeah, we’re a few childhood friends and the name Winona comes from. At Wenonah Park Elementary, so from Winona Park to Winona Partners and we’re located in downtown Decatur and yeah, we just we love working locally with people in Atlanta as well. Even if you’re a startup, you know, like what we do can still be effective for startups. And we just love the startup and entrepreneur group here at GDC, which I know you’ve got at WWDC radio, which is terrific hypothesis Atlanta Tech Village and Georgia Center for Innovation. Even switch yards like these are all just really awesome. Atlanta parts of the Atlanta startup community that I encourage everyone to look into. If you haven’t heard of those things.

Lee Kantor: [00:33:35] Good stuff. Well, Jonathan, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing important work and we appreciate you.

Jonathan Richter: [00:33:40] Thank you, Lee. Really appreciate

Lee Kantor: [00:33:42] It. All right, this is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you next time on Atlanta Business Radio.