Parker Schaffel: Hard Conversations, Real Accountability, and Better Teams

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Houston, Texas. It’s time for Houston Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Trisha Stetzel: Hello, Houston Trisha Stetzel here bringing you another episode of Houston Business Radio. Beyond the Uniform series, today’s guest is Parker Schaffel, an independent leadership coach and Navy veteran who helps high performing teams become even better. Parker has worked with leaders at companies like ExxonMobil and Amazon, focusing on emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and helping people have hard conversations with honesty and respect. Before launching his coaching practice, he spent over a decade at the CIA and served as an intelligence officer in the US Navy Reserve. Go, Navy. What sets Parker apart is his commitment to using established, research backed methodologies like Cliftonstrengths and the Thomas Kilmann Conflict Mode instrument. Instead of creating flashy proprietary frameworks, he believes leadership development should be grounded in expertise, not ego. Parker, welcome to the show.

Parker Schaffel: Thank you so much, Tricia. I really appreciate that. For that introduction, you’re welcome.

Trisha Stetzel: I pride myself on doing that for my guests because we don’t always do it for ourselves. So you’re welcome. From one Navy veteran to another. Parker, tell us a little bit more about you. What else do you want us to know?

Parker Schaffel: Sure. Uh, so again, thanks for the opportunity to be here. Um, I think you hit a lot of it, uh, as, as a leadership coach and facilitator, I’ve learned that that one of the best things I do with clients is to get people to have difficult conversations in respectful ways. Um, and that’s, it touches on a lot of things. It touches on emotional intelligence, uh, conflict, uh, having the skill set to even know what to say in a conversation, how to get people to work together, how to collaborate better. And I’ve learned a lot of this throughout my years of, of working across different sectors. I think one of the things that makes me, I don’t want to say special, it’s not the right word, but really maybe unique in the coaching world is I’ve worked in corporate industry, I’ve worked in government, I’ve worked for a nonprofit, I’ve been in the military. Those are for probably the biggest sectors you could probably work in. So being able to, to bring that approach of, of all of those experiences, um, is something that, uh, that I really enjoy. And I think my, my clients benefit from, uh, going forward and aside from, you know, just the work that I do, um, you know, we were talking before in preparation for this, you know, I was a mascot for a baseball team. For a couple of years, I’ve written and recorded my own music. I wrote a book a number of years ago. Uh, so, you know, I just like to share those things because, you know, we’re all people and we all have these unique things that we do. And I think the combination, the combination of all of those things kind of makes me who I am as a person.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, I really enjoy and, and the part of your bio that really sticks with me is, um, really, it’s all about the expertise and not the ego. And we see a lot of coaches show up if we’re just all being honest with each other with more of the latter and maybe some of the former. And it, I think that in the coaching industry, we really have to lead with our expertise and empathy. Tell me what you think about that empathy.

Parker Schaffel: So I want to give a lot of credit to a lot of coaches. I mean, I think so many of them are doing things right. I just have my biggest concern as a coach is about hubris, and I never want to get to the place where I have this overinflated sense of self worth or the value that I provide clients. And I think it would be a disservice if I came out and said, oh, well, Tricia, let me tell you about Parker’s four P’s for success and it’s blah, blah, blah. And it’s based on my anecdotal experience with with clients. There may be some value there, but there are researchers, there are psychologists, there are experts in these fields who have done the real hard work to figure out what works. And and that’s what I find to be most beneficial to people I’ve worked with in my clients is those tried and true and trusted and well researched assessments or theories or paradigms or frameworks, whatever it is, using those, uh, and getting the clients to fully engage with those just has so much value. And then the value that I provide, I think, is creating the space for people to dive into those in vulnerable, open, respectful, honest ways. And when you can do those two things, I think that’s when that’s really when that growth comes. Um, and it’s when some, some really just the talent starts to come out. Uh, and really great things can come from it.

Trisha Stetzel: Absolutely. I remember the conversation that we had, uh, a few months ago when we first met and you talked about there’s no reason to rework the things that are already in place. Right? And I love that. I think that’s, um, a fantastic way to look at it. And thank you for being so humble. And I know that, uh, your clients appreciate what you bring to the table all day long.

Parker Schaffel: Yeah. I, I’ll joke with my clients and I truly mean this, right? I’m not the smartest person in the room. Uh, the job of a coach, right, is not to be a consultant and tell people how to do things. It’s also not to be a therapist and diagnose traumas. The job of a coach is to recognize the expertise people have. They have the answers themselves. Sometimes they just don’t know it. And being able to pull on that and ask the right questions by doing active listening and and picking up on trends and noticing the emotions and everything involved, that’s when people are able to come up with their own solutions to their own issues. And that’s, you know, my role as a coach. So I try to bring that humility and say, listen, I’m not the smartest person here. I’m you’re the smartest person here, right? You as the, as the client, either in the room when I’m facilitating a group or in the one on one session, either in person or virtually. Right. They have the answers. And it’s my job to just help kind of pull them out a little bit. So I always try to remember, you know, have that humility. Be humble. And that’s what helps, you know, kind of keep me in check and make sure that that people are coming up with their own answers to their own solutions.

Trisha Stetzel: Absolutely. Can we? You started down this path and it triggered something for me. I want to talk about emotional intelligence. I think that’s really important, not only as a coach that we carry that and understand it, but also teaching it to the people, the people that we’re working with. So just at ground level, if anyone’s listening and they’re like, oh, emotional intelligence, overused, I’ve heard it a million times this week. Can we just get to the basics? What does emotional intelligence mean to you? And how are you using that not only in your own coaching practice, but with your clients?

Parker Schaffel: So I would describe emotional intelligence as understanding who you are for the purpose of regulating yourself around others, which enables you to see how you fit into a team where you can then figure out how to accomplish great things. And that’s the four kind of parts of emotional intelligence that Daniel Goleman came out with in his book Self-Awareness, self-regulation, Social Awareness, Social Regulation, or Social Management. Right. Understanding who you are as a person, what you like, what you dislike, your emotions, being in touch with them, and then understanding that your emotions and your actions and other things have impacts on other people. If you recognize that, you can then regulate that so you can find the sweet spot of bringing the best out of you, but also not overdoing it because somebody might react adversely to to something that you do that might be great, but it might affect them in a negative way. If you can do that with each person, you then understand how you fit into your team and the role you can play in your team. And if you understand that, that’s when you can really start to, to enact change and inspire others and lead teams and motivate people and be innovative and creative and positive. So that’s how I describe it in general. And, and I think that the, the, with my clients, the biggest leap that I can help them make is that first to that second piece, helping them understand what they like, what they dislike, what they’re good at, what they’re maybe not so good at.

Parker Schaffel: Wouldn’t say a weakness doesn’t have to necessarily be that. Um, but what they’re feeling, what their emotions are, and if they can tap into those things and understand the impact that their actions and emotions and feelings have on other people. Stronger relationships are built. And when you have those strong relationships, great things come of it. I mean, in the 20th century, people were, you know, creating widgets and it was about sitting at an assembly line and that was it, right? Hammer the nail and the thing goes down the process. Now stuff gets done because two people work together. So the value that people have in their relationships is really, really important. And you can save and build upon and strengthen those relationships. If you can have that emotional intelligence and develop it. And because if you understand the impact of your actions on other people, you can find that sweet spot with each person. And that’s just going to strengthen relationships. You can get stuff done better, faster, stronger than you could on your own. You’re not spending the time in perpetual turmoil and conflict. Uh, so if people can do that, I think that that’s a really good takeaway on how they can, they can build their EQ, affect positively their relationships and go off and do great things.

Trisha Stetzel: Absolutely. What I’m thinking about the age range that we have in the workforce today, I’m not going to use the word generation or anything like that. Right? We just have a very large age range. And the difference in the way they show up for work. Um, one. Are you able to use EQ in this space? And how does that help bring people together that are in such a broad age range in the workforce?

Parker Schaffel: Yeah. As I’m sure you can imagine, uh, you know, there are the, some of the people I work with are in their 20s. They’re coming in thinking they know everything, right? And in many cases, the those that younger generation, you know, science would say their brain isn’t even finished developing yet. Uh, by the age of 25, 26. Um, and then you have these people coming in and thinking, I know everything. I have these great grand visions for what I want to accomplish. And that’s great. And then you’ve got, you know, people in other places who are more experienced in their careers coming out and saying, yeah, okay, I’ve been doing this 30 years. Right? We got to find that balance here. Um, but what I can tell you is, and what I’ve, I’ve learned from working with some of my clients is just generating an awareness about that gives people the opportunity to at least pause. And if you can pause and give yourself just that moment, you can then get the opportunity where you can reflect on, is this what I want to do? Right? That, that that 30 year veteran coming out and saying, hey, you know, young Buck, you might not know everything that you think you do.

Parker Schaffel: There’s a way to say that that evokes growth. And there’s a way that that can way to say that that can shut somebody down and giving them that pause to say, how do I really want to do this? What is it that I really want from this relationship? What I want for me, what I want for them. And then phrasing something in a way that kind of encompasses all of that, that can change the direction of a relationship. And the same thing for those, those younger people, the people with the, the little bit of lesser experience in the workforce, getting them to pause and say, do I really know everything? Or what happens if I phrase this differently? What would what benefit would come to me from that? So I think just getting people to think about, again, going back to what I said before, that EQ piece of the self-awareness and the self-regulation, giving that pause to recognize where somebody is at thinking, okay, what is the impact on other people? Can just bring a lot of people together and have stronger relationships in the workplace.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. So I hear a little bit of difficult conversations in where we’re going and what’s coming next. But before we go there, I know folks are already wanting to connect with you, Parker. So what is the best way for them to find you?

Parker Schaffel: Tricia. Thank you. Two, two best ways. Uh, one is my website, parker.com. Uh, there you can learn all about what I do, how I do it, the programs that I offer, the online virtual learnings, uh, that I offer two different video series. One about having difficult conversations, one about cliftonstrengths. And some of my contact information is there on how to meet with me to see if it might be worth working together. The other one I’d love to connect with anybody on LinkedIn. Feel free to reach out. You’ll find me at Parker Chappell. Um, and I think the cool thing is for anybody watching or listening, I’m literally the only Parker Chappell in the world. Uh, so if you, if you Google search my name or search it in anything, I’m going to come up pretty easily. So thanks for the opportunity to connect with your audience.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, fantastic. You guys, you spell Parker P a r k e r, and his last name is spelled S c h a f f e l, Parker. It’s been so exciting already. I can’t wait to talk about difficult conversations. All of us have been faced with those, whether it’s in our own businesses, as entrepreneurs, our staff, our clients, our vendors, or in the corporate space. Even in the military, for gosh sakes, right? In government agencies, we’re all faced with these hard conversations and so many of us would rather bury. I’m putting myself in this place, burying our head in the sand and not having those conversations. So one, why is that happening so often? Why are we so afraid of having these difficult conversations? And how do you lead your clients to a place where they’re comfortable having these difficult conversations?

Parker Schaffel: Wow, great. Great question. So, so number one, and I might have you remind me of the second one here. But number one is why do we struggle to have these, right? Why do people get stuck and not wanting to have them? And to answer it directly, there’s there’s a lot of fear and there’s a lot of, of concern, of safety in difficult conversations. People feel that if I open up, if I share something that I don’t know if I, if I push back on somebody that that is going to expose me. And if I’m exposed, then I can be hurt. And a lot of us just want safety. We want physical safety. We want psychological safety, emotional safety. And any time that you’re entering into a difficult conversation, you’re inviting somebody to potentially hurt you in some sort of way. So I think the reason that a lot of people don’t do it is because they’re worried about feeling safe. And I totally get that right. We just as human beings want to feel safe and being vulnerable or letting down and giving somebody an opening or putting down our armor or our shields for a moment can, can feel kind of dangerous. So that’s one piece. I think the other piece is sometimes people don’t realize how good it feels to have a conversation that leads to change and leads to new behaviors or new connections.

Parker Schaffel: And here’s what I mean by that. I will never forget when I was taking physics in high school, and I was learning from my physics professor about friction, and he talked about two kinds of friction. One is we called dynamic, and one is called kinetic static, and one is called dynamic or kinetic friction. I forget, but what he said was he said, if you imagine a chair on a floor, it doesn’t move because there’s friction, right? If you look at it, yeah, the chair might seem smooth and the floor might seem smooth, but microscopically, there’s these little kind of edges and they lock in together. And that’s what keeps the chair in place instead of it just kind of floating all over the floor. And I said, well, that’s really interesting. I hadn’t thought about that before. And he said, and sometimes think about why it’s easier to move something in motion than it is to get it started. And I said, well, that’s really fascinating too. And I thought about that from a difficult conversation perspective is that once you can get over that, that static friction where the the teeth are kind of locked together and you get moving, you don’t give an opportunity for those teeth to lock up anymore and it’s smoother as you go along.

Parker Schaffel: Difficult conversations are just like that. It takes a lot of energy and a lot of effort to start something, but once you get it and you get moving, it’s easier. And then to keep that friction example going, what happens if you rub two rough surfaces together for a good amount of time becomes smooth, right? And you reduce the amount of friction that’s there. And it just comes from having that initial thing of rubbing that sandpaper together and starting to work out the sand. And again, over time. Yeah, there’s a little bit of heat that comes with that, but you can manage that so it doesn’t turn into a fire and you can get it smooth where things are smoother and and easier to manage than they ever have been before. So even if you’re not a scientist or a physicist listening to this, I hope that that analogy can kind of resonate with you in that people struggle to have these conversations because they get so intimidated by that initial push to have it. They don’t recognize how, how much easier it is once you get into it and how much better it is once you’ve done it.

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm. So the second part of that question was, how do you help your clients take that first step when having these difficult conversations? So I love your analogy. I think that’s fantastic. It’s a great way to help the client understand what this is like. How do you get them to take action?

Parker Schaffel: Yeah. So I think there’s two ways to get people to take action on difficult conversations. One of them is a skill set, right? Sometimes people just don’t know what to say or how to say it. They get so overwhelmed by something that it just it’s like a cloud over them. They can’t get away from it. And then they feel stuck. And the other piece is around having a confidence to be able to do it. So practicing having little conversations about difficult issues that can eventually lead to bigger and more important and long term, more strategic conversations. So something I did with actually a Houston based law firm, uh, a couple weeks ago was a deep dive into this skill set building and confidence building. I walked them through one of the books behind me here, Crucial Conversations, which I use a lot. That book helps people really define what is the issue at hand. Is it a content thing? Is it a pattern? Is it a relationship? When you can break that down, you can really hone in on the thing that you want to focus on what is most important. And then you can ask yourself questions, what do I really want? What do I really want for myself? What do I really want for others? And what do I really want for our relationship? Then you start to create your story and you start to say, well, you know, these are the facts that I’ve seen.

Parker Schaffel: Uh, this is the story I’ve created out of this. And you ask for others. Hey, this is how I’m seeing things. Tricia, how are you seeing this? Right? I help people work through what’s called the ladder of inference, where thinking about the available data that’s out there, we all kind of cherry pick the data that fits our worldview. And based off of that, we can come up with assumptions and conclusions and beliefs and actions that may not be representative of the entire pool of information. So how do you get people down that ladder to where they’re thinking about what else is out there? What would a neutral observer say about this situation? And then if you can practice talking tentatively and encouraging testing and creating safety, uh, by, by using statements like contrasting, uh, or asking and paraphrasing and mirroring. As long as you can create that safety, people will stay in conversations and you can really start to, to get through some deep issues. So those are the two ways that I recommend people get to do those difficult conversations. Is the skill set building just learning what are the best practices out there? And then how do you practice it so it becomes a natural skill to you, right? We don’t we aren’t born with the ability to have difficult conversations. We’re able to do them because we practice them and we use the right skill sets to be able to do that.

Trisha Stetzel: All right. Anyone out there struggling with a difficult conversation, you need to reach out to Parker so we can help you with that, guide you in the right direction. Thank you for that. That I could talk to you for another hour. I wish we had more time together. Um, next question for you. Because you’re a veteran Navy veteran. I’d love to hear a story or a particular quality about you or something that you learned in the military that you’ve brought forward with you and to the work that you’re doing now.

Parker Schaffel: Yeah. Tricia. Thank you. You know, I was a, I was a Navy reserve intelligence officer, uh, for, for eight years. Um, and I deployed to the Middle East with it and had some really great experiences. One of the things that I will never forget is when I was actually working in one of my reserve units on one of our drill weekends and, uh, one of my intelligence, uh, sailors, one of my intelligence specialists, uh, gave us a report for me to review that had a glaring error in it and would have been really bad to, to kind of send up the chain. And I thought to myself, what is the best way to approach this? And again, getting back to that kind of that difficult conversation, that emotional intelligence piece. I asked myself, what is it that I want here? Do I want to just change this or do I want to change behavior in the future? And I wanted this sailor to be a good intelligence specialist. I wanted him to grow. And I learned enough from my leadership training at the CIA and other places that the best chance for growth is for people to recognize it themselves and then take action on it, rather than me kind of berating him or just making the correction in the document myself and moving it on. So I had the conversation with this sailor and I said, you know, can you tell me about this and how did you get to this place and where’s the source? And, and what were you hoping to accomplish in this? And by asking those types of questions, he was able to identify, hey, you’re right, Lieutenant Schaffel.

Parker Schaffel: This is wrong. And this is actually misquoted. And I asked that coaching question. Well, what do you what do you think you should do next? He said, well, I’m going to change this and I’m going to provide better attribution or whatever it is. And I said, okay, so what’s your takeaway from this? And he said, I need to be more careful. I need to be more detailed in my analysis and, and my critical reading and that sort of thing. I said, okay, so what’s something you’re going to do differently next time? These kind of coaching conversations? And it was something that was kind of natural to me, but I recognized that the change that the sailor was able to make is because I approached it from a coaching perspective, rather than just a superior officer kind of coming down and berating a junior enlisted, you know, for making a mistake. And he was able to make significant changes and go off and deploy and have a successful deployment in Afghanistan. I think partially because he maybe had a new perspective there. So when I think back to my time as, as as an officer in the Navy, uh, and what it brought to me, it was, that was one of the first times I thought about what coaching could do for somebody. And, uh, just kind of the approach that I have as a coach now and what I mentioned before, which is, you know, people can figure things out on their own. If you ask them the right questions in the right ways, they can have some incredible growth themselves.

Trisha Stetzel: Absolutely. That personal responsibility and the things that he learned, just having that conversation with you that made him that much better the next time, right? I love that. Thank you for sharing that. And one last thing. I would be remiss if I didn’t celebrate with you a very big accomplishment. Tell us a little bit about what you have just completed and why it’s important to you.

Parker Schaffel: Uh, thank you. Tricia. Um, yeah. So just today, uh, I, uh, earned my associate certified coach designation from the International Coaching Federation. Uh, for anybody who doesn’t know, this is the premier coaching organization in the world, uh, and the three certifications they offer are really, really special. Um, and this has been a long time coming. Uh, because I didn’t go through it in the traditional sense. And, um, for those of you who are unfamiliar with this, a lot of times universities are kind of larger coaching programs will offer what they call executive leadership coaching programs. It’s six months costs a lot of money. And kind of when you finish the program, you get your designation and you go on, um, I did a different approach. I did what’s called the portfolio approach, where I took a lot of different kind of coaching training over time. I, uh, generated, uh, you know, coaching clients and reached 100 hours of coaching. I found mentor coaches who could help me adjust my coaching and improve, uh, had coaching sessions evaluated by the ICF. And then actually just today, uh, took the exam to get that ACC, uh, designation. So this is something I’ve been working on for several years. I’m really, really proud of it. And I know that, you know, you had mentioned, um, my work with some of your, your previous, uh, participants on your podcast, uh, with drew Davis, with the chief of staff association. Having that designation enables me to support them even more. Um, gives me even a bit more credibility, I think, with my current clients. So I’m just really excited to see where this goes and how I can use this going forward. And, uh, just give myself a little bit of a pat on the back for, uh, for accomplishing a goal of mine, uh, that has been on my mind for, for a couple of years now.

Trisha Stetzel: Congratulations. I, I love that you’ve done this leader in, in your path and being a coach, I’m just guessing that it was very meaningful to you to already have some coaching experience under your belt as you went through the process of finishing this giant accomplishment?

Parker Schaffel: Yeah, I what’s what’s interesting is when you do kind of a more traditional process. A lot of times students in these programs will coach each other up, or they’ll have 1 or 2 clients and totally make sense, right? That’s kind of their, their path. Um, but I’ve, I’ve been coaching for a number of years and, uh, just decided, you know, I’m going to, I’m going to build my coaching business and, uh, kept collecting the hours. And once I hit 100, I was like, I have this, I have this really important milestone that I’ve got. And, uh, I’ve learned a lot along the way. And what’s interesting that I noticed even from taking the exam today, some of my things that I’ve done that were maybe ingrained in me, we’re kind of coming out and to reflect on those with respect to how the International Coaching Federation really hones in on their type of coaching style and their mantras. I had to unlearn a couple of things, uh, which was really great for me to learn as a coach, right? Not just the things that I’ve learned through experience. Um, but there are other ways of doing things. And of course, if you want a designation from an organization, you got to do things their way and make sure that that you abide by, by their ethics and their principles and their guidelines. So I really expanded, even in the last couple of weeks of studying, expanded my presence as a coach to, to understand even just some more capacity that I have.

Trisha Stetzel: Beautiful. Congratulations again, and thank you so much for your time today. Parker. This has been awesome. Would you one more time let people let the listeners know how to find you?

Parker Schaffel: Sure. And again, Tricia, thank you so much. So again, for everybody listening, my name is Parker Chappell. Last name is S c h a f f e l. You can find me on my website at parker.com. Please find me on LinkedIn. I’d love to connect with any of you and just help where I can, even if it’s a question or if we end up working together, whatever it is, that’s my goal. So again, Tricia, thank you so much for the opportunity to be here. I’d love to talk with you for another hour or 2 or 3, but this has been a really special conversation, so I’m very grateful to you.

Trisha Stetzel: Thank you. Thank you for your time, and I appreciate everything that you brought to the show today.

Parker Schaffel: Thank you.

Trisha Stetzel: All right, guys, that’s all the time we have for today. If you found value in this conversation that Parker and I had, please share it with a fellow entrepreneur, a veteran, or a Houston leader ready to grow. And of course, be sure to follow, rate, and review the show. It helps us reach more bold business minds just like yours and your business. Your leadership and your legacy are built one intentional step at a time. So stay inspired, stay focused, and keep building the business and the life you deserve.