Designing Brands That Connect: Insights from SAW Design Studios

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Woodstock, Georgia. It’s time for Cherokee Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Joshua Kornitsky: Welcome back to Cherokee Business Radio. I am Joshua Kornitsky, a professional implementer of the entrepreneurial operating system. And your host here today. Uh, before we get started, we’ve got a fantastic guest in studio. I just want to make sure everybody remembers that. Today’s episode is brought to you in part by the Community Partner program, the Business RadioX Main Street Warriors defending capitalism, promoting small business, and supporting our local community. For more information, go to Mainstreet Warriors and a special note of thanks to our title sponsor for the Cherokee chapter of Main Street Warriors. Diesel David Inc. Please go check them out at diesel. Com today in studio. I’ve got an amazing guest. My guest is Sarah-Anne Wildgoose, the CEO and founder of SAW Design Studios. They specialize in visual storytelling and they span design, branding and marketing. So she’s here today to share her journey, her perspective on the value of design, and how she helps businesses stand out and connect with their visual identity. Welcome, Sarah-Anne, it’s really a joy to have you here today.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well, thank you so much, Joshua. I am so happy to be here and I value that you’re having me as a guest. Thank you.

Joshua Kornitsky: It’s truly a pleasure. I love learning and have always had a soft spot for things related to the universe of marketing. Uh, and I say related to because that’s just not a single drop in the bucket. It’s it’s quite a big ripple when you drop that that that drop in. Yes. So can you tell us let’s start at the beginning. Tell us about your journey, about what got you to where you are.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Okay, well, I’m going to go way back briefly. That’s right. So my mother was a fine artist and my father was an engineer.

Joshua Kornitsky: Oh, wow.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So then when I chose to study industrial design, I basically married the two disciplines. And I always joke that my designs have the creative flair from my mother. But the logic and the value from my father. So they are grounded solutions.

Joshua Kornitsky: That’s great.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And then from there, obviously, as I said, I started in industrial design, which is product design, and I worked in that discipline for about 15 years.

Joshua Kornitsky: Oh, wow.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And, um, I really enjoyed product design, but just felt, um, when I came to a crossroads after being with Tupperware and once again, they were going to leave Rhode Island, where I was at the time.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And moved to Florida. I decided, you know what? I need to put my career and my hands not in the corporate system. And that’s when I started my first business.

Joshua Kornitsky: Really? Okay. And and during I mean, 15 years is is almost a career into itself. During that time, what were some of the things that you worked on?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So I ended up in the medical field twice.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: There were two Johnson and Johnson companies I worked for. Both, I would say were probably my most favorite jobs. And the reason being is in the healthcare industry, there are real problems. And I would say instrumentation bottom line is more about the cost. Also, you’ve got human beings using the products, right? So you’ve got to focus on user interface. But then also from the patient side that is interacting with the system. So when I was with Technicare and Johnson and Johnson Orthopedics. Both were ergonomic nightmares. So when you’re designing ultrasound equipment, you have scan texts that are five foot two and you’ve got others that are six foot four, right? So in the middle, how does that person interact with the system and wheel it down the hallway? Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: So it’s that what do they call it, the design of everyday things. Right. It’s people don’t realize that thought has to go into that.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: So I as I said, it’s always amazed me. But you did share one other thing that you that you worked on that I have to ask about because it was my favorite part of the story. Uh, a little bit about toys.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Oh, yeah, that that was a lot of fun. So, uh, I went to the University of Cincinnati, okay. And they have a co-op program, so that means it’s a work study. You’re at work, and then you go back to school, and then you’re at work, and then you go back to school. So I landed at Tupperware, and, uh, they just threw us right in and they gave us project briefs. And two of mine was was a, one was a Bell system, a Bell telephone truck because Bell was still around.

Joshua Kornitsky: Absolutely. I remember.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Uh, maybe I shouldn’t have said that the dating myself. But anyway, um, so it was fun because they gave you a project brief, but they didn’t define everything. And I looked at the way I was designing it, and they wanted the truck guy, Pete, the truck guy, to have his little pylons and little extra equipment. So I designed in a drawer that could slide to either side of the truck, but not be removed, because if you remove and lose the drawer.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: There goes the play value. Right, right. Yeah. So that was a lot of fun. And, uh, the other one was a car carrier. So if you think about a race car going off to the racetrack, they’re usually carried on something. And so the truck was a car carrier. And I think my favorite memory from being there was the smash test.

Joshua Kornitsky: So I think I spent most of my childhood smash testing.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So you’d go out to the hallway that they had a giganto super sized rubber band, so to speak, that you could pull about ten feet away from the wall. So you’d put the toy in the slingshot, going, okay, and you’d let it go and smash up against the wall and see literally where the pieces would fall. But then it would show weaknesses within the design.

Joshua Kornitsky: I spent some time in software design, and in many ways we mirrored that. Except without the rubber band, right? Um, but nonetheless, that’s. I love that visual. But the fact that that was actually done. Uh, it makes it even better. Um, but that was all really designed focus for for 15 odd years. And then you shifted into, um, branding and visual storytelling. So, so help me understand, because number one, I’d love if you would give us a basic explanation of of what visual storytelling means and what. And I know this is the the hardest question in the world what branding means, but at a high level, because one of the things that I often find is I make assumptions too often that people understand exactly what I’m talking about. Right? And you’re in an industry that everyone thinks they understand that very few people probably know the nuances of. Would you share first? What is branding? What is visual storytelling in whichever order makes the most sense?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So visual storytelling is. I think a lot of people don’t realize they’re visual learners, but at least 80% of us are visual learners. So what that means is you need words and you need pictures to really send the message and have it solidify with someone. So we’ve all been there before. You’re sitting in a conference room and someone opens up PowerPoint and bada boom.

Joshua Kornitsky: Sorry. You nod off.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes, you lose them at hello.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right? You really do.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Because everything is words. So now if you pictorial lies. So that’s the visual storytelling part of any story. If it’s a sales pitch, if it’s your actual brand, which we’ll get into in a minute, but it’s really pictorial izing with visuals to help comprehension. And it’s been proven statistically that when there are images on a PowerPoint. People get it.

Joshua Kornitsky: And they connect more.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes. And remember it. So I always make the analogy back to your picture books, your childhood, your favorite picture book. We all remember them well. Why? Well, they were visual. They had a message. So what that did, is it engaged us, right? And then it connected. And then we remember. And then I think either as kids or as parents, you’ve read that story a gazillion times because.

Joshua Kornitsky: That’s why I was just smiling. Yeah. My oldest daughter is named Madeline for the book Madeline, and I know the opening of the book by heart.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes. Yes, exactly. I mean, I think for me, Where the Wild Things Are.

Joshua Kornitsky: Or Sendak.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And, you know, Doctor Seuss with his crazy characters, but he knew what he was doing, right? So When I talk about visual storytelling, that’s that’s what I’m saying.

Joshua Kornitsky: And that makes much more, um, that that provides a clearer insight and an understanding for someone who’s not sure, because I do feel like it’s a term that’s used a lot but not defined a lot.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right?

Joshua Kornitsky: Right. So then again, knowing that this term is is literally 30 miles wide. Yeah. What is branding and how does it relate.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So I’m going to turn it a little bit. What is your definition of brand.

Joshua Kornitsky: Ooh. Um, broadly speaking. And I wasn’t, you know, and I wasn’t prepared for it.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: I know, but that’s why I’m asking.

Joshua Kornitsky: So broadly speaking, it’s the identity of the product or service. And identity is is loaded and vague, but just simply, uh, you know, the shape of the bottle for Coca-Cola, right? Is that branding or is that storytelling, or is that both? Because I don’t actually know the the answer to that.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well it’s both. So they developed an iconic bottle Well, if it didn’t even have Coca-Cola on it, you would immediately know what it was.

Joshua Kornitsky: Oh no question.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right. So it’s interesting that when people talk about brand, they often think, oh, it’s the logo. Well, it is, but it doesn’t stop there. So the brand is anything that you’re really going to create to tell the story. So if you do a brand style guide, which I label that as your insurance policy, because if you are a large group and maybe you employ ten graphic designers, how do you keep them on track? How do you not just have them going off whimsical and designing pieces? So the largest brand style guide I did was about 38 pages.

Joshua Kornitsky: And, and that sort of acts as the source for anyone doing anything related to the design. To go back to you to say as simple as. This color, this font, but also these images, not these.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Correct. And then it. Went deeper in this particular instance because I developed two templates that were going to be used as infographic style communication.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And so not only did I have to say here’s the layout and what the template looks like, but if you have two pictures and text, this is the layout two pictures above the text below. The next page might be okay. You’re allowed to use four images, but then here’s where you position the text. Because again, if you gave it to a graphic designer, they’re going to take artistic license upon the content that fills the template.

Joshua Kornitsky: Absolutely. Because they’re going to only look at it from what lines up for the eye.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Exactly.

Joshua Kornitsky: And that may or may not align, I guess, right, to what’s the established. Right. And on the subject of sort of that established brand guideline, that’s what you called it, a guideline.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: It’s a brand style guide.

Joshua Kornitsky: Brand style guide. Um, is so you shared your own background, right? Art and science, so to say, is that more art or science or both? When you’re creating that style guide?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well, it’s actually both because then you can pull in, um, the logic side, how does someone process information? I mean, naturally, we read from left to right, at least in our culture, we read left to right and top to bottom. So that’s going to give you what is called hierarchy. What are you going to put at the top of the page. The most important stuff because someone may not read to the bottom.

Joshua Kornitsky: Particularly these days. Just short attention span. Right?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right. And that makes sense to me. And I’d never really thought of that. But there really is both art and science to it, because you have to understand what’s going to engage fastest. And you can tell the rest of the story on the page if they come back to it. But at least you’re going to leave the impression that you want them to have.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Exactly. Exactly.

Joshua Kornitsky: Thank you for for giving me marketing 101. But I want to go back to my question of what brought you from the world of of much more strict design.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: Into now that you’ve explained it, uh, visual storytelling and branding. What was there a specific event or was it. Yes, please.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: It’s all a client’s fault. So I actually walked in to a talk through a potential product design project, and of course, I’m carrying my brochure and I hand it to the gentleman, and he literally started doing backflips right in front of me. And he said, who did this? And I said, I did. And he goes, oh, you do graphics too. And there was a pause, just like I’m doing now. And I said, yes.

Joshua Kornitsky: Yes I do.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: But as I was thinking about my answer, it was true because all those years of product work, I still had to create two dimensional layouts, whether they be presentation boards or a mix of boards and PowerPoint, or eight and a half by 11 sheets that communicate use. I was doing graphics. I had just never thought of it in that light.

Joshua Kornitsky: Because it was just part of your creative process, right?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: And so it turned out you had this hidden skill that was just already there.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes. It was just waiting to emerge. And so, um, I just discovered at that time there were a lot of entrepreneurs. I mean, there always are, but, uh, they needed logos. They needed business cards. The landscaper needed at that point, um, magnets for his truck. He needed a brochure. He needed advertisement. He needed T-shirts. Because those are walking around live billboards.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And the yards for the signs.

Joshua Kornitsky: That makes sense.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So, you know, I just started doing all the pieces that fit and work together for somebody. Marketing strategy.

Joshua Kornitsky: So is is this strategy putting it in in the biggest container. Is it how is it usually perceived. So I work with entrepreneurial businesses. Some of them most of them view a marketing strategy specifically as as an expense.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes.

Joshua Kornitsky: Um. Is that the right way? It’s just a budget line item. What’s what’s how should they be viewing it in order to really recognize what it represents to the organization?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So they need to look at the end first.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And what I mean is the output that a program, a graphic design marketing strategic program can offer them. So the old adage out of sight, out of mind.

Joshua Kornitsky: Sure.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So verbal referrals are great, but that’s only one chapter. So if you are not being strategic and creating the right graphic design tools to be in front of your target audience, then you’re not going to get a return on investment. But really, the marketing tools are magnetic. They attract.

Joshua Kornitsky: React, right?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: They engage and they connect. And lastly, they build a company’s reputation.

Joshua Kornitsky: Well, all of that makes sense. But I want to latch on to something you said. You said that that marketing is an investment rather. And I’m extrapolating from that rather than, I gather, than as an expense. And I’m just thinking about my own limited investment portfolio. Right. Is, is I don’t just buy a stock and ignore it forever. Right? Right. I have to pay attention to it. I’ve got to watch it. Hopefully it goes up and it might go down. And I got to make decisions accordingly. But when when someone views marketing as an investment rather than as an expense, does that typically do you help them see the value of looking at it as a longer term thing? Because to me, an expense is an expense. You know, we we we have to buy paper plates for the kitchen. That’s an expense. It’s just a line item. But if I treat it that way, it’s never going to change. And it seems to me that marketing can’t function as a set it and forget it function.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: No. And that’s why you often hear the word campaign, a marketing campaign. And I would recommend that someone is doing digital and print media. And back to knowing your target audience. If you understand where they’re spending time right, then you design those pieces, the marketing pieces, to be in front of them consistently or regularly. You know, think about postcards. There’s a lot of power in a postcard. So it comes to your mailbox. You don’t need it right now. So what do you do? You chuck it.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right, right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: But then it comes in next month, and you go, I’ve seen this before. And you chuck it because you don’t have the need right now. Then the third, fourth or fifth month, something happens in your lifestyle and that postcard comes in. It’s like, oh.

Joshua Kornitsky: I need a plumber.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yeah, I need that service. So whether you’re appearing on LinkedIn or other social media channels, which are some of the digital sides, right. It’s that constant repetition of being seen.

Joshua Kornitsky: So how here’s the the the multi-million dollar question. Right. And it impacts me I imagine it impacts you who can help a business find where their market is, because I believe I know where my target clients are. And belief is a wonderful thing depending on the context. Yes, but but if I believe that all my customers are at McDonald’s at 6 a.m. on a Tuesday, that’s not going to necessarily make it so. So how how do you help people discover where to find their clients? I guess is is the best way I can ask that.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So the first place I like to start is understanding what they’re doing for marketing today, because there may be some channels that they’re using that they’ve seen some success with.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Okay. So I would say that’s not broken okay. But again, uh, I guess this is a good story. Um, let’s say you’re over 65. You’re looking for Medicare, right?

Joshua Kornitsky: Would one I’m not.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: I would one be would one be on social media looking for Medicare?

Joshua Kornitsky: I would think less likely.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Correct.

Joshua Kornitsky: So maybe watching TV.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well, right. So it’s understanding where your audience, you know, are they surfers on the web and if so, where are they going on the web? Right. Are are your clients receptive to email, you know, newsletters? Now if the open rate isn’t high, it could also be a content issue. So I have to look at both habits of target audience their behavior where they are.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Along with. Again, if you’re sending a newsletter that’s 100% words or maybe one little picture up in the corner, right? Or if it’s a hard core sales pitch which no one likes, then your open rate is going to be low. So it’s understanding all those pieces and where words are making sure the verbiage content tent is going to attract.

Joshua Kornitsky: So does that makes sense to me. Is that visual storytelling? Well, is that an aspect?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: It’s an aspect. I mean, storytelling is a marriage between the right word content and the right graphics.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay. So to help me understand, is there an example or a story that you could share that maybe explains where the visual storytelling really hits home?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Um, yeah. Um, there was a construction company that I did work for, and they were, um, looking to land two of the biggest mortgage mortgage companies worldwide. They wanted to be the preferred vendor for remodeling, and they had to go through an exercise of three digital documents that were submitted, and there were certain elements that had to be in there. There were specific questions. So you’ve got words in there, right? So what I did is pictorialist where I could also structuring a layout that was welcoming and engaging for someone to actually want to read through the content. And so they made it to the third round and they attended the face to face meeting. It was at 9:00 in the morning. By the end of the meeting, they got the handshake and.

Joshua Kornitsky: Said, wow.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: We understood you. We understand all of the expertise that work for you. We understand what you deliver, how you deliver some of the tools, the the AI tools that are out there that we believe you are going to bring us success.

Joshua Kornitsky: That pretty well illustrates.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: It.

Joshua Kornitsky: Well. But but that’s the thing. Yeah. We’re talking about more esoteric concepts. And when you can make them more concrete, which is virtually making your point for you, when you can make them understandable and, and people can grasp them better. Right. Um, that makes them much more tangible. And I feel like I just answered the next question I was about to ask by, by using my own example, not because I’m brilliant, but because everything you’ve said has, has, has largely spoken to me. So let me ask then, because now I have a much better grasp on on the visual storytelling, the the brand strategy aspect. Let me ask this. What size organizations do you typically work with?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right now it’s medium size and larger companies, but I have a soft spot being an entrepreneur myself. For people who are just getting started To bring the conversation full circle, then you’ve got that expense.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Versus investment. So even at the onset, if a logo is done, business cards are done and they’re like, okay, we are maxed on our budget. Let’s still go through the exercise of understanding what would be the proper way to market yourself so we can identify the tools. I can identify the costs that the campaign would entail.

Joshua Kornitsky: Understand it on the front end.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And then they can work towards that.

Joshua Kornitsky: That that is gracious and kind, but also, uh, shows where your passion lies because it’s, it’s about, uh, helping them grow, which will ultimately help our community grow. And, and other companies will grow alongside them. Yeah. So where do you think the next step is for your organization? Where do you want to take your growth? What direction?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So right now I am looking for partnerships. And what that means for me is working with a company, you know, long term, six months a year, or even extending it after that. And what that does is that helps us build the relationship that brings me inside long term. So I understand the brand or develop the brand for them so that we would kind of go on autopilot after a block of time when the brand is set up, because you’re not having to educate me. Every project or someone you know, if if you’re using four different designers and every time they come in, you have to bring them up to speed.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: You know.

Joshua Kornitsky: Well, and I think about just, you know, memorable ad campaigns going back to, to sort of the segments that you educated me on. Memorable ad campaigns don’t change very often. And that consistency requires consistency. I imagine on the data side, on the creative side, on the storytelling side, on the branding side, because if if you suddenly radically change into your point, bring somebody a new designer in who wants a different look, who, you know, we like classical design and somebody like, no, no, no, it’s all got to be modern and sleek and bear. You can run the risk, I imagine, of confusing your customer.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right, right. And then I think if a company. Because sometimes it is worth taking that pivot that we started out as a classical look. I guess you could talk about Cracker Barrel, right? Sure, sure. And for me, I really didn’t see what all the drama was about on that logo. I mean, companies have been rebranding over time and let’s face it, personally, I felt like that was an outdated logo.

Joshua Kornitsky: I have without going down this rabbit hole. I had read lots of articles prior to the rebranding that their core customers were disappearing because of age. Yeah, and and it’s sort of I joke, I have a 17 and a 22 year old daughter. Uh, I don’t understand how Flintstones vitamins are still marketed. And they are. Yeah, because my daughters have no idea who the Flintstones are. That’s right. I imagine my parents do, and I certainly do. Yes. But to my kids.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: They’re not anywhere in their social, uh, lexicon.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yeah. So they probably did a lot of analysis. It wasn’t like they woke up one morning and said, we’re going to do a rebrand, you know.

Joshua Kornitsky: Change that.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: But I commend them for being open to realizing there’s been a pivot in their market share and that they have a choice. They can stay exactly where they are, and we know where that’s probably going to lead.

Joshua Kornitsky: Sure.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Or pivot.

Joshua Kornitsky: Well, and that leads back, I think, to kind of your your core message around the consistency, going even back to the style guide of yes, change is necessary at some point in design and look in in every aspect. But you can’t just wake up and flip the switch one morning and say, okay, tomorrow. Our colors are green and blue and they’ve been yellow and white until now, right? Keeping it simple, you have to plan for that. You have to have a strategy for that.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And so a smart move would be and let’s go back to the logo. Perhaps they had three different logos that they had been contemplating. They could have put it out there in the world of social media, gotten feedback and gotten feedback, and maybe they did that internally. They could have done. We used to call them focus groups back in the product day.

Joshua Kornitsky: What are they called now?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: I don’t know, I call them focus groups.

Joshua Kornitsky: That’s what I thought. They were still called.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: But anyway, they may have done that. And that’s really none of our business, you know, because it’s, um. But I think it would have, uh, let us as a larger audience understand that they were getting ready to make a change.

Joshua Kornitsky: In a heads up goes a long way towards quelling panic.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right?

Joshua Kornitsky: Right. Not that I’m not. I still don’t know why them changing their logo would impact my life. Yeah. You know, if they got rid of their biscuits, that would impact them, but not their logo, right? So. So how how can we help? And we work with similar size organizations. How can we help more For small, medium sized businesses understand marketing as an investment and brand storytelling and design as an investment rather than as just an expense, because I think giving it the the moniker of expense makes it very disposable. And as we all know from any touch in corporate life you’ve ever had. You know, we cut when it comes to times to tighten the belt. They cut what they consider disposable first. But there’s really no there is no business if marketing ceases to exist, because word of mouth will not keep you busy.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well.

Joshua Kornitsky: And forever.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yeah. And I mean, if you think about the big box stores, everybody knows who they are.

Joshua Kornitsky: Sure.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yet they still market as if they never existed. So to answer your question more specifically is let’s have the conversation. To me, the me, the conversation is the relationship. Having the conversation doesn’t cost anything. It’s let’s talk about your business. Let’s talk about where you are. Let’s talk about where you want to go. And then, of course, how marketing and design can help you get there.

Joshua Kornitsky: It sounds very much like you lead with something that’s that’s near and dear to my heart, which is simply a help first mentality. Right? And and if you’re willing to offer that to folks, I think that that would go a long way towards helping them better understand, but also build that idea of it of of brand storytelling and marketing as an investment. Right. Um, and it’s funny, I grew up in the car business, and we used to joke that 50% of our advertising worked. We just didn’t know which 50%. And and that came from the fact that we tried, uh, a shotgun approach. But the problem was at that time there was no real measurement metric. Now we have more measurements than we do. Yes, metrics.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes we do.

Joshua Kornitsky: It’s. But, you know, I imagine coming full circle around back to your own parents now, it has really become a science and an art.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes.

Joshua Kornitsky: Um, because we have measures, we have mechanisms by which we can gauge effectiveness. And that means that it’s a lot. It ultimately every everything that you invest in is a risk. Yep. But it can be less risky, I presume if you have real data that allows you to tell you, that tells you what’s resonating versus what isn’t right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Exactly. And, you know, we all use the term call to action. You know, that is the age old best way to track.

Joshua Kornitsky: Sure.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Because if it’s an offer on something, Right. Or if it’s a QR code that’s leading them to fill something out. It is so easy to track what is working and what isn’t.

Joshua Kornitsky: I found this incredibly insightful. I enjoy the subject matter, but I think that your expertise on this really brings it to life and it makes it tangible. Um, and I would encourage anybody that wants to learn more. You’ve made the offer, Sarah. And so I got to put it out there. Uh, she she she’s willing to talk. I am. Uh, and I mean that in a not desperate, but wanting to help kind of way. Um, because the aspect of marketing particularly, and with a focus on medium to growing businesses, the larger you grow, the more of a necessity and the less of an option marketing becomes. Yes. And, um, my background, as I mentioned earlier, was the automotive industry. My background was also in software and software design and technology, and I bring all of that up to tell you that at a certain point, you clap out and hire a pro, and the reason you do that is you can’t do the everything aspect as an entrepreneur that you think you can and succeed, while also running your organization or organizations to grow. The value of bringing expertise is that you can then focus on your business and the things you do well. You know, it’s kind of like if you were getting audited by the IRS, would you go and become a CPA or would you hire one? Right? At a certain point, it just makes sense. And I think you bring a an amazing pedigree and a in a great outline for how best to succeed. So I can’t thank you enough. Sarah and Wild Goose, um, CEO and founder of SAW design. But let me stop because I forgot to ask, how do people get Ahold of you?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well, I would say the best place to go is LinkedIn.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Uh, so Sarah-Anne Wildgoose on LinkedIn because all my contact information is right there. So my email, my phone number, obviously, if you Google Sarah-Anne Wildgoose, it would come up as well. Um, but that’s the best way to find me. I mean.

Joshua Kornitsky: I will also share with you that when we publish, we will have all of those links as well. Great. So that people can get that when, when they go to get the podcast download. Um, obviously it’ll be on LinkedIn. So now I’ll bring it back around and say Sarah-Anne Wildgoose, CEO and founder of SAW Design, uh, studio specializing in visual storytelling, um, in really spans design, branding and marketing. You’ve shared your journey with us just a little bit, and I appreciate that. But really, you’ve given us a great perspective on how design helps businesses stand out and connect. And for that I thank you.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well, and I want to say thank you so much. I have really enjoyed my time and conversation with you today.

Joshua Kornitsky: Thank you. So I just want to remind everybody that today’s episode was brought to you in part by the Community Partner Program, the Business RadioX Main Street Warriors Defending Capitalism, promoting small business, and supporting our local community. For more information, please go to Mainstreet Warriors. And a special note of thanks to our title sponsor for the Cherokee chapter of Main Street Warriors. Diesel. David. Ink. Please go check them out at diesel. David. Com. I’m your host, Joshua Kornitsky. I’m a professional implementer of the entrepreneurial operating system. It was my pleasure to have you here again today. Sarah-Anne and I look forward to our next show.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: I do too.

Joshua Kornitsky: Thanks so much.