Anne Woodman With ANNE WOODMAN coaching and jewelry design

Intro: [00:00:02] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Coach the Coach radio brought to you by the Business RadioX Ambassador Program, the no cost business development strategy for coaches who want to spend more time serving local business clients and less time selling them. Go to brxmbassador to learn more. Now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:33] Lee Kantor here, another episode of Coach the Coach Radio, and this is going to be a fun one today on the show, we have Ann Woodman with Anne Woodman coaching and jewelry design. Welcome, Ann.

Anne Woodman: [00:00:43] Hi Lee, how are you? It’s great to be here.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:45] Well, I am doing well and I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us a little bit about your practice.

Anne Woodman: [00:00:51] Well, I’m originally an artist and jewelry designer turned life and business coach, so I’m currently coaching mostly small business owners like myself who are creatives and wanting to grow their business and find more joy and fulfillment in their business and in their lives.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:12] Now, when you work with creatives, I hear a lot of times from creatives, especially that they have almost I don’t want to say it’s self-sabotage, but maybe they have lower expectations, like there’s an expectation of being that quote unquote starving artist. And there’s almost a shame in in making a lot of money. Or they might be seen as a sellout. Do you find that?

Anne Woodman: [00:01:36] Yes, absolutely. I see that a lot. And that’s one of the things that I see the most. Actually, I really love working with my clients to help them get over that, that kind of self-sabotage side. I think as a creative, as an artist, especially when you’re trying to grow a business and you’re putting yourself out there, it’s putting your art out. There is even more of a challenge. Sometimes it feels more personal than just putting a business out there. No, I think it’s something that people struggle with a lot.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:10] So how do you help your clients, even at the kind of at the granular level of just even pricing? Because in some respects, artists, you know, it’s not a cost to material business, right? Like, you know, if I’m a painter and it’s if I just calculate what the canvas and the paint is, I’m really not selling my art. I’m selling material.

Anne Woodman: [00:02:36] That’s true. That’s true. Yeah, that is a challenge. And I think what’s interesting about pricing as an artist is that, like you said, it’s really not about the materials that you’re using. That is a factor. And especially as a jewelry designer, I know a lot about that. But it’s also about the years of training, maybe that you’ve had. It’s about your own personal value of the the emotion and the life experience that you’re putting into your work. And I think that artists tend to undersell themselves a lot. So I always try to say price yourself where it feels really uncomfortable, where you think, Oh, there’s no way anybody would pay that that’s probably closest to what you should be charging.

Lee Kantor: [00:03:21] Now, have you can you share a story, maybe where you’ve helped somebody with their pricing and that’s impacted their business?

Anne Woodman: [00:03:31] I’m trying to think, I mean, honestly, the best story I have about that is from my own personal jewelry business, from when I was starting out, I started by selling in person and in shows and craft fairs and things like that, and I had an opportunity to sell in a really fancy department store. And what they asked me for was my wholesale prices, and this was my first experience with wholesale. So I really didn’t know how that worked and I had to figure it out. And when I realized that they took my wholesale price, which was basically the price, I had been selling retail at shows and they tripled it and I thought I, I started crying. Actually, I was like, There’s no way people are going to pay that for my work. And people not only paid it, but they were. I sold out at that show and that was a huge lesson of that. I was really undervaluing my work, and so I tell that story a lot to my own clients.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:27] Now do you find that just an average client of yours or just maybe an average creative? The percentage of times they’re under charging is way more than the percentage of times they’re overcharging?

Anne Woodman: [00:04:44] Eh, sometimes I find that I do find that especially creatives who are at the level where they’re actually hiring me, meaning they’re looking for a coach to help them grow their business. Usually they’ve gotten to the point where they are starting to make money in their businesses, so they’ve kind of gotten over that a little bit. But yes, I do usually have to push them to charge a little bit more and that that is usually a stretch.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:13] So what is that point of inflection for creative where they do need a coach? Is there something that happens in their work that says, Hey, now it’s time to take this to a new level?

Anne Woodman: [00:05:25] Yeah, I think that when a creative has a business and it sort of feels like they’re at a plateau or they’re not really growing as fast as they could be, or it feels like they’re kind of going in in circles like spinning their wheels. I think what I found with coaching is that the biggest benefit is that it really can be an accelerator. So I find once I start working with a business like that, it’s amazing how quickly things can shift and change. And so I think that when you as a creative, if you’re in that kind of stagnant place where you really want growth but you feel like you’re kind of getting in your own way, that’s when you start looking for a coach.

Lee Kantor: [00:06:04] Now, does a typical creative spend enough time on the marketing and sales part of their work and or do they spend maybe too much time on the learning more, getting more skills and like getting ready to do the work part?

Anne Woodman: [00:06:20] I think you hit the nail on the head. I think the typical creative is not spending enough time on the sales and marketing part because for the average creative, not to be stereotypical, but that’s usually the hardest part for them really selling yourself. And so really, what they’re spending most of their time doing is what’s fun for them, which is the creating. So I find that the typical creative can get lost in making the work and kind of procrastinating a lot on the actual selling of the work. And I can relate to that a lot myself.

Lee Kantor: [00:06:54] So how do you help that person who now has like kind of a boatload of product and not a lot of sales? Like how do you get them to kind of pause the creating and just start selling through inventory?

Anne Woodman: [00:07:06] Well, what I really like to do is I try to show a creative person how fun and creative sales and marketing can actually be. And the great thing about creative people is that when they actually get into the sales and marketing part, they tend to be really good at it. And actually they think of ideas that the average sales person might not think of. And so the marketing can be a really good outlet for creatives to really show themselves and express themselves. And they tend to be great once they kind of get over that hurdle of thinking of it as, Oh, I don’t want to be salesy.

Lee Kantor: [00:07:46] So it’s a lot of it is a mindset shift to kind of lean into the selling because if people aren’t aware of what you have or they don’t see the value of it, then it’s hard to sell it. So you have to spend some time evangelizing about it or getting other people to evangelize on your behalf.

Anne Woodman: [00:08:02] Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And it can be really fun. I mean, there are a lot of creative ways to sell and to create marketing, so it can be actually a really fun endeavor once you get over the the kind of stigma of of what it means to be selling yourself.

Lee Kantor: [00:08:21] Now in your work, you started out with the jewelry and then moved to coaching. Or were you doing coaching and jewelry at the same time? Or like, what was the order of things?

Anne Woodman: [00:08:31] No. I started out with my jewelry business and I had my built my jewelry business for about 15 years, and I ended up building up to the point where I ordered. I opened a brick and mortar retail space and I ran that for about six years. And then actually, when COVID came about, I ended up having to close my retail store and I went into coaching because for the last couple of years of my business, I had actually hired a coach myself. And the growth that happened in my business and in my life during that time was just amazing to me. And so I really felt like maybe I could give back to my community of artists and creatives in the same way I really wanted to help other creatives save some time. I spent so much time kind of figuring things out for myself and tripping over myself and getting in my own way. And so I was excited about trying to be that accelerator for other people.

Lee Kantor: [00:09:30] And was that the first time you had coaching?

Anne Woodman: [00:09:34] Yeah. Well, the first time I had coaching was about, yeah, I guess it was about three years ago when I was in my. Running my retail business, my I was running my jewelry business on my own, and I felt like it was just overwhelming all of the different parts of it, and I wasn’t sure where I wanted to go and how I wanted to grow, and that’s when I hired my own coach, which was really beneficial for my business.

Lee Kantor: [00:10:01] Now, when you decided to raise your hand and say I’m going to be a coach, was that something that you struggle with as like a new creative would in terms of, am I, you know, qualified to do this? Was there any imposter syndrome or was it something like, Look, I’ve got enough scar tissue here, I have enough information to help others?

Anne Woodman: [00:10:21] Yeah, there’s definitely some imposter syndrome. I actually part part of what I did to tackle that is I actually went through a training program so that at least I would have the credentials so that it wasn’t just like, Oh, I can do this now. So I did go through a year and a half of training. And so that helps with that. But absolutely, I find now that I’m kind of back in the same place of building a business that’s different from the business that I built 50, you know, starting 15 years ago. So I definitely am having some of the imposter syndrome that even my clients struggle with as well.

Lee Kantor: [00:10:59] Now, is it really that different of a business or does it kind of rhyme like it’s not making jewelry, but it sounds like it’s doing a similar, you know, you’re starting something from nothing. You’re selling kind of maybe a feeling or an outcome that these people are, you’re helping them along the way. Is it really that much different than being creative?

Anne Woodman: [00:11:23] It’s there are a lot of similarities, actually, I would say, because what you’re really selling is yourself as a coach, I’m selling myself so. And as a creative, I’m selling a product that I’ve created with my hands. So in that sense, you’re selling yourself in both ways. It’s just a kind of a different language. I guess how I’m selling a piece of jewelry is about how is this jewelry going to benefit your life? How is it going to make you feel? How is it going to be the best gift you’ve ever, given all of that? And then as a coach, how is this going to benefit your life and your business? And it’s it’s a little tricky because you’re selling yourself, you know, and part of coaching is that what I’m really doing is I’m helping my clients. Create the change in their own lives by doing the work themselves, so I’m not really doing it for them, so it’s kind of hard to sell that way because I can’t say I’m going to tell you what to do to fix your life. You know, I’m kind of like, I’m going to help you find your own answers to fix your life, right?

Lee Kantor: [00:12:33] And but the it’s kind of similar in the sense that at the end of the day, they’re trusting you to solve a problem, whether it’s the perfect gift or it’s the take my business to a new level.

Anne Woodman: [00:12:46] Yes, yes. And at the end of the day, I it’s also up to them, right? In some ways, because if they’re presenting the perfect gift to somebody, but they are buying a flower necklace for a person who hates flowers, you know, then that’s might not work or if they’re hiring a coach, but they’re not going to do the work themselves that I’m suggesting that they do. Then again, I can’t really solve the problem. So the client in both situations has to do some of the work.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:21] Now, any advice for that new coach that is kind of making a change from what they were doing before to now getting into coaching. Is there anything that you’ve learned since having gone through that that might help ease their kind of learning curve?

Anne Woodman: [00:13:39] I would say, first of all, get a coach, which is funny, but I think that having a coach myself, I still have a coach. And it’s really helpful to get rid of that kind of Sabater voice in your head that is really that imposter syndrome telling you that all those terrible messages that it tells you, right? So it’s really helpful to have somebody to talk to about that so that you can get out of your own way when you’re building a new business, whether it be coaching or any kind of business, really. And yeah, just trust yourself and know that if you have a calling to do this, then it’s because you’re meant to do it and there’s something you have to offer.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:21] Now what’s more rewarding for you nowadays is it when a piece of jewelry gets sold or one of your clients gets to a new kind of milestone?

Anne Woodman: [00:14:32] Hmm, that’s an interesting question, I would say it’s probably the latter, because at this point, I’ve been selling jewelry for so many years. I’m kind of used to that excitement and I’m still the coaching is kind of new for me, so it’s still sort of boggles my mind that things happen so quickly and that these clients, my clients, are making these big strides in their life. And I kind of sit back and I’m just amazed by them. So I’m still in that sense of newness and awe in the coaching business.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:07] So if there’s somebody out there that wants to get a hold of you and learn more about your practice or see your jewelry, is there a website?

Anne Woodman: [00:15:14] Yeah, yeah, they can go to my website. It’s just an Woodman. It’s Anne with an E. So Anne Woodman.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:22] Well, Anne, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing important work and we appreciate you.

Anne Woodman: [00:15:27] Thank you. It’s so great to be here. Thanks so much.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:29] All right, this is Lee Kantor. We’ll see, y’all next time on Coach the Coach radio.