Donna Poudrier With Effective Speech Communications

Intro: [00:00:02] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Coach the Coach radio brought to you by the Business RadioX Ambassador Program, the no cost business development strategy for coaches who want to spend more time serving local business clients and less time selling them. Go to brxambassador.com To learn more. Now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:33] Lee Kantor here, another episode of Coach the Coach Radio, and this is going to be a fun one today on the show, we have Donna Poudrier with effective speech communications. Welcome, Donna.

Donna Poudrier: [00:00:45] Hi Lee, how are you?

Lee Kantor: [00:00:46] I am doing great. I am so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about effective speech communications. How are you serving, folks?

Donna Poudrier: [00:00:53] Thank you. I love that slogan. How am I serving, folks? Well, I think of myself as a people stager. If you’ve ever sold a home, or perhaps you have friends that are thinking about selling, we often stage our homes and I stage people and I help them present the very best version of themselves to then be able to speak well to a hiring manager or to an HR person to get the job they want. So I’m a career coach and I’m a recruiter. So that’s pretty much how I serve them.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:23] So what’s your back story? How’d you get in this line of work?

Donna Poudrier: [00:01:27] You know, it’s really interesting. We can never seem to. But don’t guarantee our our our linear view of where our career is going, I started out in sales and marketing and the reason being my father was all about the sale. He was a sales manager, a sales trainer. He wrote books on salesmanship. He was a public speaker about sales. So it’s no surprise around our dinner table. That’s all we ever talked about was how to close the sale. So of course, I started out in sales and I worked for a major blue chip corporations like Nestle, Unilever or Rita Hines, General Foods Barilla. All in sales, marketing and new business development. So what’s interesting about this is that I was spending my career creating products, selling them, marketing them, and now my client is my product, so I work with them the very best we can. Where a team approach in creating the best version of themselves with all of their marketing materials, their LinkedIn, their resume, the two minute pitch, their interview strategy and then, of course, to close the sale. So that’s kind of how I get started. It’s all about the sale and it still is right now.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:39] How how do your clients come to you? Like, are they at the beginning of a job search, like at the beginning of their career? Or are they kind of executives that are trying to get to a new level? Like, what? What is the pain they’re having, where Donna and her team are the right solution?

Donna Poudrier: [00:02:54] That’s a good question. I really work the entire spectrum. I work on my own as a career coach. I work with other career coaches in terms of helping college grads get hired and working with universities or just working with those grads on one on one. And then I also work with an outplacement company where I’m sure you’re aware of when companies are downsizing. They hire an outplacement company and then each of those people have a chance to relaunch their career. And I’m a coach for them so I can be with anyone from just starting out right out of college to executives that are making anywhere from 250 to half a million a year.

Lee Kantor: [00:03:30] Now, is there anything, say, a middle management person can be doing to get on the radar of a recruiter? I’ve always heard of some people are like, Oh, recruiters are calling me left and right, and then other people are like crickets. No one’s calling them about anything. What it kind of catches the eye of a recruiter and what kind of kind of a regular person be doing in order to kind of capture the attention of somebody that might help them land that dream job?

Donna Poudrier: [00:03:56] Ok, that’s a really great question. First of all, I think the number one mistake that everyone makes when we’re looking for a job these days is to kind of sit back. You might you might expect that recruiters are going to just reach out and find out about you through LinkedIn or what have you, but you’ve got to be proactive in your search. But if you want to be found out. Once a recruiter does find you, if you want to be within their radar and pursue opportunities within that firm, you’ve got to have a resume that really speaks to the potential job. Like the first third of the resume, the top third is the most important and average recruiter myself included. We’ll look at a resume anywhere from five to eight seconds. So in that top third of that resume, if it’s not jumping off the page as to who this person is, how many years experience, et cetera, what they could do for the potential company that I’m representing. And fortunately, it goes in the garbage, so you’ve got to be proactive and you have to have the right sales materials.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:54] So that’s the the first step to be found is to kind of kind of get your foundational assets ready.

Donna Poudrier: [00:05:02] You have to have your assets. And what I would say, the other mistake would be that so many people wait to be found or they’re just applying online. And what’s really interesting about this search one something that I learned when I crossed over from being a recruiter to a career coach and combine the two that over 80 percent of jobs right now are secured through networking and directly reaching out to hiring managers, believe it or not, over 80 percent. So if you are sitting at your computer all day and I’ve had people call me up and say I actually applied to 70 jobs today, you know, I can’t wait to hear back. Well, good luck, because no one. That’s not the way to find a job. That’s the smallest portion of the pie. It’s only 10 percent of jobs are secured through online. And secondly, if you’re applying online, you need to be using an applicant tracking system, which is a whole nother scenario. So you really have to be reaching out and networking. Use your network. That is how to get a job.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:58] Now, if when you advise people to, you know, in their career search, you mentioned just now that kind of applying. And people think they’re being proactive and they think, you know, they’re doing work. Obviously, it takes time to do all that and do those 70 applications and submissions. And you’re saying that it’s not. Maybe that’s not the best use of your time, but that is a use of your time. How would you go about if you were this kind of person that’s looking for a new job is your first move to just really identify the type of job first? Or do you identify the company first and then you kind of try to find who knows somebody within there because you mentioned the power of the network, and that’s really where you’ve got to get a friend of a friend to maybe refer you. How would you kind of go about this job hunt if you were putting aside what seems like the obvious and easiest is just making submissions in?

Donna Poudrier: [00:06:56] Right. Ok, so that’s a great question, and this is something that we all need to focus on when we’re trying to find a job. First of all, you got to have a list. If you just say to yourself, I believe your job for six months, my first question would be is, OK, well, you know, who have you applied to? Who your targets? Who do you know in your network? So you really have to have a good list of companies saying to yourself, All right, I’m in the medical device industry. I want to stay there as an example. And if I want to stay there, who are the companies specifically? I think I want to work for and make that list? Or perhaps you’re coming out of publishing as an example, and you know that the publishing industry isn’t doing very well. Well, publishing might be one category you’re looking at. And then what are the other areas? What are the transferable skills you have from publishing you could bring into another industry, so you might have two or three industries that you’re looking at with a list of companies?

Lee Kantor: [00:07:50] So is that that that’s where you really help your client, right? This is what I would imagine that you’re going to save them a ton of time and them kind of barking up the wrong tree or not even realizing they might have gold in their back pocket and not even know it, but.

Donna Poudrier: [00:08:05] Absolutely. They might know somebody that they didn’t think to contact. But the most important part of this is being proactive, as you said, and making that list so you can be checking them off. Because as you know, there’s so many people applying to jobs all the time for each job is probably more than two hundred and fifty applications. So you’ve got to have a lot of conversations going. So if you’re just having put all your baskets in one opportunity and that one falls apart, where does that leave you? So that’s number one. You’ve got to be proactive, then you always have to think about it as a sale. You have to have an approach, a demonstration and a close. You know, the approaches, who are you approaching the demonstration or all your sales materials, as well as your interviewing strategy? And then how are you going to go into that interview and close the sale? And how are you going to as part of your approach? How are you going to reach these people?

Lee Kantor: [00:08:51] And then I find that a lot of people get hung up on the right person, and I think that in when you’re networking within an organization, I don’t think the right. I mean, ideally you’d want to get as close to the right person as possible. But when you’re starting out, anybody in the organization could be the right person for you, whether you know them well or not, because they might know the next person and you’re going to be slowly getting closer to the right person.

Donna Poudrier: [00:09:15] That’s exactly right. I think, are you in this industry?

Lee Kantor: [00:09:19] No, but I mean, it’s just I’m in sales, so that makes sense to me. Like a lot of people get hung up with or if I don’t know the person with the golden ticket, why bother? It’s not. Everybody else is a waste of my time, and I’m like, I don’t think so. I think these kind of weak ties help you because they give you credibility, and then it helps you get one level closer to where you’re trying to go.

Donna Poudrier: [00:09:39] That’s exactly right. You never know where that break or the next job is going to come from. So here I’ve got a quick story about that and you want to hear it? Sure. Ok, so here’s an example of putting the referral opportunity and networking together. And one. This is a smart kid. He actually. We’re back talking about medical devices, actually. He was in the medical industry. He decided that he wanted to work more in the device aspect of it. And he didn’t really know anybody. So he starts going looking on LinkedIn. Now this is, I don’t know this person directly. I know my client, whom I talk about in the second. He’s looking on LinkedIn and he actually finds a client that I’m working with, and he sees that they have a lot of like minded interests. They’re young, they’re, you know, out of school a few years, both like sports. So this kid says to himself, I think I’m going to try to connect with him because he’s actually working at a company that I would love to work at. They don’t even know each other, so no one check off the first box, right, because he’s actually connecting, trying to connect with someone on LinkedIn.

Donna Poudrier: [00:10:40] So my client, of course, says, Yep, you can. I’ll connect with you. Next thing you know and pick up the phone, he says, Can I have a conversation and they have a conversation? They don’t know each other at all, by the way, they connect on the phone. They’re talking about sports teams and industry and sales, et cetera. And then the kid says to him, You know, do you think your company even has any openings? And my guy says, Well, I don’t know. And he says, Well, do you think if I sent you my resume, could you send it down to HR? You never know. Sure enough, sending the resume, my client sends it down to HR. He ends up getting hired. They end up being very good friends and my client gets a referral fee of like almost $3000. Wow. So you just never know. This is one they didn’t know each other from Adam. And then they turn out to be good friends. They’re both working for the same company. Wow. Very interesting.

Lee Kantor: [00:11:26] You never know. And it’s one of again for young people listening. I hope that you kind of can get up some nerve and some confidence to reach out to strangers in this manner because people want to help other people and and don’t be afraid to go maybe a few levels higher than you think you should, because when people are at higher levels, they want to give back and they’re excited to hear from a young person that’s hungry and that wants to learn, they’ll give you some time. So don’t be afraid of that. Take the shot because there are so many older people that want to help the younger person succeed. Because it’s good for their legacy. They feel good about themselves.

Donna Poudrier: [00:12:09] I agree completely. I have a real soft spot in my heart for new grads. My father was such a help and a mentor to me. Coming right out of school and showed me how to do it. And really, it hasn’t changed that much. And the other interesting point that you bring up when you start a little higher is that when you start a little higher on the totem pole in terms of where these people fall, for instance, a couple of different things. If you’re if you start in the middle management, suppose you end up being good friends with somebody like this. Like the story I just told you, if you’re referred in by someone in middle management as an example, you have a better than 50 percent chance of being hired. Like here we go back to the referral system, right? If it’s at the director level, it’s better than 90 percent. And if you start hire that person or that director, so to speak or VP, will trickle it down and their underlings will say, Well, I better interview this person. You know, this person, the VP told me that this person is good. So that’s great advice that you’re offering.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:06] Yeah, I think that people underestimate how much that it means for the the mentor or the, you know, the hire, the more seasoned executive that they want to make time for young people. I mean, they might be too busy or may today or this week or this month might not fit. But don’t be. Just keep trying because if you’re hungry and want to reach out, they’re going to make time for you in most cases. That’s how I’ve seen I. When I was younger, I had a lot of more seasoned veteran people make time to talk to me because I was hungry and relentless, and they saw that, and they want to know that that’s good for their business. You know, that could turn into an employee for them, and that’s who they want to have. Is that person that’s hungry and relentless?

Donna Poudrier: [00:13:53] Yeah, I totally agree with you, and I’m telling these kids that all the time, they have a hard time reaching out networking. It’s something we really need to work on with all of them.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:02] So now what is kind of the most rewarding part of your job? Is it the, you know, that moment when you get the call? Like, I did it, I got I got an interview, I got the job. Is that really where the joy comes in in your work?

Donna Poudrier: [00:14:16] It is with all levels, whether it be the college grad or the senior exec. Absolutely. And and I also think. Being on their timeline and working according to their plan, for instance, I have people call me and say, you know, I really need a job quickly. You know, I’ve been I had somebody recently. They were out of job. They were out of work for an entire year, which is not uncommon in these days and didn’t have a coach just pursuing it on his own decided to hire the coach. He and I work together, and he had a job within like two, two and a half months, which was record time because we we had a lot of the information. We just had to reposition it and retarget his efforts.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:58] And and that’s another thing for people who aren’t familiar with the way that kind of resumes or handles him processed. If you don’t have an expert advising you, you could be saying the right thing, but using the wrong words that it’s the machines aren’t going to know who you are or why they should speak with you. You’re not standing out, and there’s a lot of kind of advice and information out there. If you know how to do this, that you’re going to get a lot better result doing the same exact thing.

Donna Poudrier: [00:15:27] I know, and it’s really too bad that it’s come to that with applicant tracking systems because you could be very qualified for a position. But if you’re not using the correct keywords that have been included in that job description, you can immediately eliminate yourself when in fact, you might be the best person for the job. But you can’t get the interview

Lee Kantor: [00:15:46] Right now when when people see kind of all these places where you can submit resumes and it makes it seem like there’s thousands and thousands of jobs, and I would imagine there’s thousands and thousands of people submitting on all those places constantly. I. Is that like a lottery ticket? Like, are you really just, I mean, are people getting jobs that way or is that really kind of, like you said, the one out of 10 or one out of one hundred?

Donna Poudrier: [00:16:17] They do. They they absolutely do get jobs that way, but it requires the candidate to be even more focused, customize and tailoring their marketing materials. And of course, it helps if you know someone in the company as well, you might be applying online, but at the same time focusing on someone you might know in your network that works at that company say, Hey, I just happened to apply online. You could put in a good word for me or sending them an additional resume. Whatever you can do, like just one step sometimes is not enough, but I have seen it happen. Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: [00:16:51] Now, do you? Could you explain maybe to our listeners of if you’re in that chair of the I’m the HR person at ABC Big Company and I put an ad in, you know, Monster.com or something.

Donna Poudrier: [00:17:04] Mm hmm.

Lee Kantor: [00:17:04] What like, what’s it look like from my end? Like, what did I do to kind of find the right person and what’s going to happen like when I get all those thousands of people like, there’s no way a human being is looking at all the people that submitted. So I’m sure a machine is kind of getting rid of 90 percent of them. But how does it work so?

Donna Poudrier: [00:17:25] Well, just exactly how you said machine gets rid of about 90 percent of them, and maybe you’ve got, I don’t know, 50 or one hundred left. And then from there you begin with perhaps reaching out with an email, having a quick telephone conversation. If that goes well, then maybe it goes to a higher view where you’re not even actually meeting directly face to face. Then it might go to a Zoom interview and then it might go to personal one on one. There might be projects in the interim. It’s quite a long list. There can be,

Lee Kantor: [00:17:55] But is there? So in order to get past the machines, that’s the hardest part. That’s where they’re going to get rid of 90 percent of the the applicants is how do you know what the right keywords are? How do you know kind of how to position yourself in order to make it through that gantlet?

Donna Poudrier: [00:18:12] The way to make it through if you’re going to apply online, you need to be using an applicant tracking system. Now, one that I use frequently is called job scan, where you have the opportunity to take your resume and post it on their website. Of course, the names coming off, of course, and then also post the job description and you literally press a button scan and and it will tell you what percentage chance you have of getting an interview. And people generally start less than 20 percent and then it will tell you the soft skills and the hard skills that have you have not included on your resume that you should have based on the job description.

Lee Kantor: [00:18:49] And then that’s going to give you kind of an edge.

Donna Poudrier: [00:18:52] It’ll give you, well, it’ll give you a better chance. There’s no guarantee you’re right. But I tell my clients, if you can get yourself up to like 70 percent, 80 percent, you’re in a much better position, right?

Lee Kantor: [00:19:03] And that’s again, the power of a coach. I can’t emphasize enough that your time is worth something. And then when you hire a coach, you’re saving so much time. And if you’ve been out of work for a year, if somebody can, if you would have known at the beginning, oh, instead of a year, it’ll be nine months or six months. You would have taken that in two seconds. And it just you have to invest in yourself a lot of times in order to kind of accelerate your career.

Donna Poudrier: [00:19:33] You do. And you know, what’s good about this is that once you’ve invested the time and effort with a coach or a company or whoever is going to help you, this is really a lifelong lesson. This is not going to change the days of picking up the phone and saying, I’d like to apply for such and such a position. Those are way over, right? Right. So this is really good to learn.

Lee Kantor: [00:19:53] Right. And like you say, it is, it’s going to you’ll be able to help somebody else. You help your kids. You’ll be able to help lots of people with this information once you get it. So it’s definitely worth the investment. So when you’re working with companies, how is it different than individuals, like when a company hires you to find the right person? What does that look like?

Donna Poudrier: [00:20:15] Well, because I’ve done so much interviewing and worked with people so much as yourself and just speaking with them. I feel that I have a good sense of a candidate that might work. I spent a lot of upfront time with the company, first of all, trying to really understand the type of candidate that they want, looking at the personalities, the people involved, who the person would be working for, et cetera. In addition to the resume. So I spent a lot of time drilling these people to the point where I would know I would either I would hire them for the position. If I wouldn’t hire them personally from my company for that position, then I don’t send them on

Lee Kantor: [00:20:52] Because that’s a that’s an important consideration when you’re hiring the right person, the skills. That’s one part of it. But if they’re not the right culture fit, you’re going to have a problem, no matter how skilled they are.

Donna Poudrier: [00:21:04] Absolutely. And it goes the other way, too, for the potential potential individual looking for the job. I always say to them. Think of the when you’re speaking to the hiring manager and you’re going to the company or you’re online and zoom, whatever. How do you feel about them? Is this somebody you feel that you could work well with because as an individual and you want to be hired, you want to place yourself in the right position and set yourself up for success. And sometimes it’s not always a good fit.

Lee Kantor: [00:21:34] Right. And that’s I mean, the older I get, the more I realize all I care about a good fit. You know what? I’m looking for a partner, an employee, a client. I only want the perfect fit because life’s too short. It just it’s not worth it. A lot of times you think you force fit something because you have to and then you’re going to pay for it emotionally or in money, or in some ways you’re going to pay a price.

Donna Poudrier: [00:22:00] It’s not worth it. There is something else I’d like to mention and bring up is you can put all of the best marketing materials together and get yourself in front of the prospective hiring person for the interview. And you can do well in the interview. But there’s there’s a crucial part of the interview that people cringe. May I tell you a story about that, OK? And and I remember this even brings me back to when I just first got out of college, my father was coaching me and how to interview with companies. And I remember him saying to me, Donna, when you’re done and you both you and the interviewer are kind of looking at each other, you don’t know what to say and you think it’s over, but you don’t really sure know how to end it. You have to look at that perspective. Hiring manager and say, Tell me based on our conversation today, how do you feel about moving my candidacy ahead? Or what are my chances of getting this job or based on our conversation and the other people you’re interviewing? Where do I stand? And I remember cringing at that, but thinking, how could I ever? And today happens all the time. I talk to my clients and they’re like, No, I don’t want to ask that question, but it is so crucial and it’s crucial. As you and I both know, being like in a sales situation is that that’s what gives the job seeker the chance to overcome any potential objections. And it also is a signal to the hiring manager that you’re serious about this. Like I tell my clients, it’s funny. I say, like, would you go to a networking event? And just at the end of the conversation, you’re meeting somebody new. You don’t just walk away. You would say, Well, I really enjoyed meeting you. Let’s exchange cards or I’ll be in touch with you. There’s some type of ending, right? Does that make sense? Right.

Lee Kantor: [00:23:41] Well, there it has to. There has to be that call to action or or you have to close the sale. You have to ask for this.

Donna Poudrier: [00:23:50] That’s right. You’ve got to ask for it. So I’ve got a story here. A couple of stories interesting, like when people do this, what they find out. So I had one college grad, actually, that it was funny because he had he was just done with the job search. You know, he just he said, this is too much work. I just got to college. I just want a job. I just want to get over it like I know you do, but you have to find the right one. So he wanted to take a job actually selling. We’re going a kick out of this advertising space for a radio station. And I said, you know, I think that would be OK, but I think there’s other opportunities for you here. And you told me about this other company that expressed interest. Are you going to go for that interview? And he said, All right, you, I’ll go. So he goes for the interview. And he was on the cusp. He didn’t have that job offer yet for the radio station, but he knew he was going to get it, probably like the beginning of the next week. So here he is on a Friday interviewing with another company, and Airbnb is going really well, and at the end, he says to them, Tell me, you know, what are my chances of getting this job? Not that he really wanted it. And that was the signal to the company that he had a productive job search going on. In fact, maybe he had another job offer and they know, but they really liked him. And instead of telling them what his chances were, they said, Well, what’s your timeline? Because they knew this, they liked him and that he was serious. He said, Well, I’m making a decision on Tuesday because he’s wanted out. He wanted the whole thing over. He was in the parking lot. He left. They shook hands and said, Thank you, and we’ll be in touch right away. He was in the parking lot when they called him up and said, Could you come back down on Monday? And he ended up taking a job offer from them.

Lee Kantor: [00:25:20] Wow. It just goes to show you and and maybe having that other job in his pocket gave him the confidence to to say, OK, I’m going to play this out because I know I’m going to win no matter what, and I have a job that’s that’s so critical. And if you can, even if you can fake that confidence and be brave for those 20 seconds to ask for that, ask for ask for the sale or ask for what happens next like you described. That can make all the difference because you got to know.

Donna Poudrier: [00:25:52] And then I had another client. This interesting, you just have to have the it’s confidence, but it’s also I tell. I tell women, especially we’re not in the scenario so much now because it’s all online on Zoom. But think of I think a woman is a little bit different when they go in for an interview versus a guy. You know, you might get your hair done and your nails done, and you might buy a new outfit and get the get the new heels. What have you like, really? Go all out? Plus, all the preparations, you’ve put a lot of time and effort and you want to know where you stand. So I had a client with this woman, she goes in. She did a great job as a financial analyst position, really wanted the job. And then she said at the end, You know, where? How do you feel about moving my candidacy ahead? And his comment was, Well, I think you’d be a good candidate, but you’re right now, you’re number two. So she said, OK, I’m number two. Well, tell me, what does number one have you in a conversation? Sweet kind of tone. What do I have to do or what does number one have that? Perhaps I don’t right now? And he kindly, you know, was giving her the chance to overcome objection. And he said, I think she’s she. I think she has a little more analytical experience than you do. She could dig into more problems, a little more diagnostic quality, just more experience. And I’m not sure you’re there yet. Not to say you won’t get there, but I’m not sure you’re the right fit right now. So she took it in. We talked about it and I said, You know, you’ve got nothing to lose. Let’s write them an email and say, If you’re willing, I’d like to show you that I do have these qualities you’re looking for. If you give me a project, this was like at the end of the week, I will have it on your desk for you. Monday morning she did the project. She got the offer.

Lee Kantor: [00:27:27] Yeah, by being proactive, controlling what she could control and and being bold and asking for the order. I mean, that’s the I mean, you got to do that today. It’s a competitive landscape for those kind of high quality jobs.

Donna Poudrier: [00:27:42] It is it’s really it’s fascinating, though it seems so basic, just as in terms of sales, but we don’t always think of getting a job as closing a sale, but I’m a firm believer that it is.

Lee Kantor: [00:27:52] Yeah, and I think it’s serving you and your clients well. If somebody wants to learn more about your work, get on your calendar and maybe get some coaching or help a company find the right fit for their organization, what’s the best way to get a hold of you?

Donna Poudrier: [00:28:07] I think the best way is initially just to try to just not try to link in with me and tell me and a brief message why you want to get together or chat or what have you. You can also email me at DPU. I think you have my email at effective speech com to Ms Dot Net, and you can call me on my business line. Very easy two oh three two five nine one two three four

Lee Kantor: [00:28:33] And then and LinkedIn. It’s just your name spelled out. It is. Yeah. Ok, good stuff. Well, Donna, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing important work and we appreciate you.

Donna Poudrier: [00:28:45] Thank you. I really enjoyed chatting with you, and I look forward to speaking with you again soon.

Lee Kantor: [00:28:49] All right, this is Lee Kantor. We’ll see, y’all next time on Coach the Coach radio.