Anna Kawar with Boys and Girls Club of America

Intro: [00:00:05] Coming to you live from the Business RadioX studio in Woodstock, Georgia. This is fearless formula with Sharon Klein.

Sharon Cline: [00:00:15] Welcome to Fearless Formula on Business Radio, where we talk about the ups and downs of the business world and offer words of wisdom for business success. I’m Sharon Cline, your host, and I am thrilled to welcome back Anna Kawar because she’s got not only was she a great first guest, but she has some serious wisdom that I just kind of like would go back and listen to some of the words that she said. And it’s like, I want to touch on that. Want to touch on that. We only have so much time. So anyway, I’m really happy to have her back and I kind of wanted to ask her opinion about some of the shows that we’ve done, at least I don’t know. We’ve got about eight or so behind us, but I kind of wanted to ask her, you know, some of her opinions about some of the guests that we’ve had and maybe, you know, expand upon some of the the great wisdom that she has from working in various different industries. But mostly the coolest part is that she really has a heart for helping people and working in nonprofits. And I don’t know, I always kind of admire people who are like the greater good. I always think just about myself, just so you know. Thank you.

Anna Kawar: [00:01:21] Sharon Yeah, it’s awesome to be back. It’s been fun to listen to some of the shows that you’ve been doing and all the guests. It’s so happy that people have been coming on and talking to you, and I think you’ve always done a really great job of pulling out really great experiences and stories from everybody.

Sharon Cline: [00:01:38] Oh, thanks. Well, I mean, you’re like a perfect person to sort of be a template for that as well. And I think what’s cool about the show is that we’ve had so many different kinds of people in different areas and lengths of businesses. It’s like some people are just brand new getting started, like the LA monica’s with Ants inspections and then some people have been a couple of years and then some have. This is what they’ve been wanting to do their whole life. So it’s really cool. It’s it’s it’s interesting. Most of the themes are the same no matter where you are. Yeah. In your.Journey.

Anna Kawar: [00:02:10] Yeah. I mean, I think I think sometimes we underestimate the people component of business and really organizations are just a, an amalgamation of different egos and personalities and mindsets, right? I mean, every organization in the world is made up of people first and foremost, so. Well, I guess unless you’re an automatic factory or something like that. But still, people built it. People coded it. All of the all of the people are represented in there somewhere. So yeah, there’s always going to be those common patterns and stories and journeys, and it’s pretty fascinating to watch that.

Sharon Cline: [00:02:48] It is. And I like that you talk about that because it’s I always think it’s people, right? People first. But it’s it’s the personalities that can be just so varied and you just don’t know, like what when you hire someone, whether it’s going to be a good fit or not, or when you work with someone, whether or not you’re going to click and you hope you do and work is so much a part of our day that we hope that we don’t make a mistake in the kind of people who are interacting with most of our day, you know? But at the same time, I mean, I kind of like like what you’re going through right now. You’re kind of I know you’re about to hire someone and you’re kind of examining the different personalities and who who you think would fit best. But isn’t it so challenging to know?

Anna Kawar: [00:03:28] Yeah, I mean, I’m actually hiring three. Well, I had one person accept an offer last night.

Sharon Cline: [00:03:33] So.

Anna Kawar: [00:03:34] I have two positions. So if anybody is looking for to work in a nonprofit doing national large scale strategy, let me know. But I yeah it’s it’s been it’s it’s terrifying honestly because you don’t get to spend a lot of time with people when you’re interviewing and you don’t get to see them in action. In reality, you can do simulations and presentations and all of that. But you know what people are going to bring to the table in terms of their in terms of their, you know, how they approach things, how they approach problems is always the unknown. But I I’ve been thinking about this a lot for myself and I and I think just reflecting on the conversations you’ve had with people as well, I think it it really comes down to, at the end of the day, finding people who are willing to do the hard things and collaborating on finding those problems and working through whatever issues you have. You know, I that’s just been become one of my favorite things in people, whether it’s work, friendship, romantic, whatever. If you’re willing to just do what needs to get done to move the whole collective forward, then you really can’t go wrong, you know? I mean, you really can’t. Like if you’re willing to solve problems and do the best for the people around you, it’s you can still have conflict, but you’ll move through it.

Sharon Cline: [00:04:59] Do you know when you’re hiring someone that they’re not putting, just like they’re giving you word salad or they’re just giving you like, I don’t know, catch phrases that make it seem like I’m a great collaborator, but in general, like, I don’t know, I guess I think about this a lot. Like we’ve talked about this recently, about what it’s like to kind of try to almost pick apart someone’s personality above and beyond what they’re even saying in those moments. You know.

Anna Kawar: [00:05:22] I mean, the interview I don’t know the right answer to that. And there’s I don’t I’m sure there’s a whole science. I know there’s a whole science. Is there? I mean, there probably is. How you hire and how to figure it out. And it depends on the industry as well. I know for myself, I, I listen for certain things. So one thing is how many questions they ask and the quality of those questions, because if they’re if they ask kind of those canned questions or they talk a lot, then I already know that whether they’re nervous or not, their inclination is to is to take up a lot of space, and that’s fine. But that is a little bit of a warning sign that they that you’re either going to have to coach them to kind of step back and get curious and ask questions or that that’s their personality and they they that’s how they like to operate. So and then the quality of the questions matters because then I get to see what are they, what are they curious about, what are they thinking about? What problems are they already noticing? Because when I tell them this is the work we’re going to do, you know, what are they picking up on? And you can tell a lot from those questions they ask that tells you what experiences they have, what knowledge they already have, and in how their mind works in terms of tackling that. So that’s been some of the stuff I’ve been doing a little bit so far. And then we do some group panel interviews and just how they kind of interact with the whole group and their, you know, how warm they are. They’re, you know, do they laugh? Do they? You know, and again, I know some people are nervous, so it’s not fair to judge initially. So I don’t I don’t I always question that and give people a second or third chance if I think they’re qualified. But but yeah, that’s a little bit of what I’ve been doing for that piece.

Sharon Cline: [00:07:13] What are some other red flags that you see flying?

Speaker2: [00:07:16] I mean, I’m not.

Anna Kawar: [00:07:18] I’m not an HR expert by any means. It’s funny that we’ve gotten on.

Sharon Cline: [00:07:21] I know I’m kind of curious, too, because this applies to business in a major way, especially if a small business owner is looking to hire someone. What are some of the red flags they should be looking out for as well?

Anna Kawar: [00:07:31] I mean, what else I and again, this is me. I really, if not sending a thank you note after an interview is a is just really bothers me.

Sharon Cline: [00:07:45] Does it require planning for my previous job. Have I done that.

Anna Kawar: [00:07:49] Because it’s it’s it’s I think it’s a sign of thoughtfulness and it’s a sign of and also like how they write emails.

Speaker2: [00:07:59] Oh, this.

Anna Kawar: [00:08:00] Is I’m this is where I know my boyfriend’s probably listening, thinking this is her being a micromanager.

Speaker2: [00:08:06] But no.

Anna Kawar: [00:08:06] No, it’s just you. I don’t know. I just feel like you can pick up things sometimes.

Sharon Cline: [00:08:10] What do you mean? With writing emails? Is it using speech a certain like instead of writing the letter, the word you, they write you. Is that text speech?

Anna Kawar: [00:08:19] Yeah. Well, that that’s one thing. So just and this again, this is my industry, my company. I there are, there’s a lot of what we call field facing work so you have to be out working with our affiliates and working with a lot of different people. So there’s a certain way professionalism you need in your communication. So if that’s what your business is looking for, then you you need to find, you know, you need to find things like that. So I wouldn’t I wouldn’t hire somebody who with me, when you know who’s interviewing for position and won’t take the time to write a a proofread, properly structured professional email, for example. Right. You know, like if we’ve gone back and forth a couple of times, then those one liners are fine. But that first note, you know, can tell you a lot about just the person’s effort that they are. And also and also people’s effort they’re putting into the application. And, you know, some people I definitely got resumes that had like I’m so excited to apply for this position as a something that’s not the role that you’re actually applying for, you know? Yeah, that was always funny.

Sharon Cline: [00:09:29] Wow.

Anna Kawar: [00:09:31] But yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s hard because I don’t, I don’t I don’t know. It’s funny. I’m thinking in my brain about the connection to, like, online dating or something like that where it’s so hard to know who people really are.

Sharon Cline: [00:09:43] I was going to ask you that was my next question. Is so in someone’s first impression that you’ve had with with an email or a resume, have you ever been surprised at how they’ve come across in?

Anna Kawar: [00:09:54] Oh, yeah, Yeah. I mean, you know, like I said, I in my mind kind of rank things, so. Maybe. Maybe I get a little red flag on this, but this other thing is really great. Or so I kind of say, Okay, well, I still want to talk to this person. And then that’ll be my my third or fourth impression of them through different means. And then I have the conversation and then it tells me even more. So I’ve had both where I’ve been not super impressed by just the on paper, but then I’ve talked to them and been really impressed or vise versa. On paper they’re really great. And then I talk to them in person and it’s the opposite. So it’s a it’s an interesting you just that the key for me that I’ve been trying to do is, is you have to trust yourself that you know what you’re looking for and trust your gut. Also be aware of your biases because we all have them. So being aware of the things that are giving you a bad feeling and question those like, is that true? Like, is that actually something that’s a red flag or am I just being a little biased or making assumptions? So staying open to that.

Anna Kawar: [00:10:55] So I’ll, I’ll challenge those. And then and then if you have any question in your mind, then give that person a chance to talk to you and see how it goes. And if and if after that first conversation, you still have questions, have another conversation. There’s no harm in having more conversations, but you don’t want to regret letting somebody go in early, too early in the process. So it’s always just being open to letting somebody surprise you. And it’s funny, again, with online data, I tell some of my friends when we talk about dating, like give them a chance to surprise you. But that that doesn’t that’s not just about the amount of times that you interact with them and providing more chances, but also keeping your mind open and walking in without preconceived notions of what’s going to happen and and looking for data to disprove what you’ve already decided. You know what I mean?

Sharon Cline: [00:11:51] As opposed to looking for things to prove exactly.

Anna Kawar: [00:11:53] A confirmation bias.

Sharon Cline: [00:11:54] Which is.

Anna Kawar: [00:11:55] Very human thing that we all do. Yes, We always look for things to prove what we already believe. But and this applies to everything in life. You know, I, I make a game out of it for myself, of looking for things to disprove what I have already decided to be true. Yeah.

Sharon Cline: [00:12:11] How often do you find that you are wrong?

Anna Kawar: [00:12:15] I mean, many, many times. I mean, not. Not. I wouldn’t say. I don’t know. I’ve never tried to put a percentage on it.

Sharon Cline: [00:12:22] I’m curious because I haven’t done that. So then I wonder how how many opportunities am I missing to see something from a different point of view? Like the world to me is just through my own eyes?

Speaker2: [00:12:33] Well, it depends.

Sharon Cline: [00:12:34] Very much on.

Anna Kawar: [00:12:35] Reality. Yeah, it depends on the topic. Like I know, I know with just with like today’s political climate, I have been proven wrong many times with my the assumptions I make about what what a person believes. And y. So that’s that’s been a big journey over the last few years. Good for.

Sharon Cline: [00:12:56] You. That’s that’s open minded for sure. I tend to think negatively. I don’t know why I sound like.

Anna Kawar: [00:13:01] A I mean, it’s such a toxic climate generally that we have. So people have, I think, gotten more comfortable with making assumptions and believing them to be true and refusing to disprove them. And the same with, again, I don’t know why I’m bringing up online dating so much. I think it’s just that I’ve been having these conversations with people, but that’s a big one where people are just they will refuse to give somebody another chance just because one little thing goes wrong or whatever.

Sharon Cline: [00:13:27] What do you think of that, though?

Anna Kawar: [00:13:30] I mean, I think it depends on the person. Like if if you’re really I just I think if you’re really looking for someone, it’s the same with hiring, dating or whatever. If you really are looking to make a connection, you just have to make that choice. If you’re not, then it’s fine. Let people go. Don’t, you know, be a perfectionist or whatever, or or, or don’t give people chances. That’s fine. It’s your choice. But if you’re really looking for something, you have to be aware of your inclination to not. Right.

Sharon Cline: [00:14:02] Right. It’s awareness. Awareness, awareness.

Anna Kawar: [00:14:05] Awareness. Yeah. So it’s the same for me with the hiring piece. Like, I could be super picky about every little thing, but if I actually want to hire somebody, I’m going to have to start.

Sharon Cline: [00:14:14] You know, do your hierarchy, your things you need, and then like the lesser value things. Yeah, I understand that. Have you have you dealt with any ageism? And I don’t mean personally, I just mean like in the hiring process. Do you look at someone’s age and does it affect your thoughts? I think for myself, you know, I was an older person going into the corporate world and worried about my age, but no one treated me like that, which is a happy surprise. But I was wondering how much does that. Impact you.

Anna Kawar: [00:14:44] It’s funny because I’ve I’ve actually been looking for folks with probably more experience than is typical for the role. Like for the for the title. Like the title is just director, but I’m actually looking for people with some more extensive experience. So there were a couple of of women who were probably ten years older than me that I was interested in, and they were interested in the role. And I, I had some fear about being their manager because I’m younger. And so I, you know, I had a couple of conversations with my my supervisor about that and just kind of my own insecurities around it. But but I wasn’t it didn’t deter me. That was about me, not about them. For me, it was it’s really about experience. But I did get nervous, you know, if I’m hiring somebody, would they be okay with me being younger than them? How would that dynamic play out? So those are some questions I had. But but yeah, I think that we didn’t they one of them didn’t end up taking an offer in the other one and pulled herself out of the running. So. But it’s yeah, it was, it was an interesting question to kind of play around with.

Sharon Cline: [00:16:06] Yeah. I mean some of my managers have been younger than me, but it’s, it’s doesn’t bother me or anything. But I always kind of like chuckle, you know, because I’m just like, Oh yeah, get that out of your head. They’re just people. It was similar to when I went back to college. I went to Kennesaw State University like ten years ago or 12 years ago and Go Owls. But anyway, they everyone was younger, I swear. Every person and I walked into class the first time. I was like, I’m so much older and like, so smart and I’m totally not. And, you know, I have to say I did them a little like disservice by thinking that I somehow with my, you know, my age and my wisdom of being a stay at home mom that was somehow going to translate to life experience or smarts. And it really didn’t. You know, there were there were a lot of incredibly smart people that were like 20 years old where I was like, oh, my God, Oh, yeah, shame on you, Sharon, for thinking that. But it’s interesting. It’s like you start to just relate to people as just people.

Anna Kawar: [00:17:06] Exactly. And I think that’s really at the end of the day, like, I try to I try to hold the mantra that there’s something I can learn from everyone. It doesn’t matter any anything, nothing, Nothing is every human being has something, something to teach me, whether it’s how they see the world, something they’ve lived through, something that they’ve learned and and are an expert at or whatever. So it doesn’t matter how old they are or where they’re from or anything like that.

Sharon Cline: [00:17:34] I love that. I really appreciate that aspect of it because you’re in the active phase of hiring someone. You’re seeing all kinds of people with all kinds of experience. And like you said, if you had a bias, you may miss some of the gifts that they are bringing to you. What’s something that you would consider kind of a general bias of yours or like as a general statement about people who are being hired or in the hiring process?

Anna Kawar: [00:17:57] Well, I know one thing I’ve been so one thing I’ve been trying to do on purpose is hire people that think differently than I do in terms of how their mind works. I’m I’m a very so it’s funny I get frustrated by people who are very in the weeds and talk you know you know the difference between storytelling. Right. Some people will tell you every detail of a story and they tell you all of the nitty gritty stuff and it goes on and on and on. And it’s it’s a it’s wonderful because you’re really if it’s engaging and they’re a good storyteller, then you’re in it and you’re like, you’re really feeling it and you can smell the smells and see the sights and all that. I’m not good at that. I’m much more of a connector idea connector, you know, putting the dots together. And so you.

Sharon Cline: [00:18:44] Don’t tell a long story.

Anna Kawar: [00:18:45] Oh, no, I’m sure I do. I mean, I talk a lot. No, no, no.

Sharon Cline: [00:18:48] I just mean, like, it’s interesting because this is huge to me, because these different personalities are important. I mean, I appreciate a good storyteller, but I also appreciate someone who gets to the point quickly. And I’ve never noticed about you either one. Like, I’ve never come up on my radar.

Anna Kawar: [00:19:02] I think. Well, I just I like to at least in a work environment, I’m much more likely to listen to what people are saying and then can find connections between what they’re saying versus going down one rabbit hole. Gotcha. And so I sometimes I’ve at least as I’ve been developing my career, I’ve noticed like that frustrates me, but it frustrates me because I just do it differently, right? So I’ve actually been looking for people who are much more detail oriented and go down those rabbit holes because I know it’ll balance me out and I can pull them out of that when they when I need to and they can pull me down into the rabbit hole with them when I need to go. But I won’t do it for myself. And they won’t. Do, they won’t connect the dots for themselves. So. And then also people who are very analytical and very need a fact and a figure for every decision. I’m not like that either. I’m much more like gut driven and I love data, but I balance it. Some people just want data. They just want the facts and figures. So I’m also looking for somebody like that.

Sharon Cline: [00:20:06] It’s so smart. And because you’re going to balance out everybody so well, you know, and move forward. And it does take a.

Anna Kawar: [00:20:12] Village, right? Well, I’m hiring for three, so it’s going to be a team of four. And I want it to be a well rounded team. Yeah.

Sharon Cline: [00:20:18] Wow. Well, I think it’s cool. It’s that you’re appreciating something that could make you uncomfortable, if that makes sense.

Speaker2: [00:20:26] Something that could drive me nuts. Yeah, but at the end of the day, will be a good thing.

Sharon Cline: [00:20:30] Yeah, I mean, because it’s not about me.

Anna Kawar: [00:20:33] It’s about the work. And if we’re. This is very complex work. And so if we’re going to be solving complex problems, we need all of the different ways of looking at those problems. And I cannot do it on my own. And the way that I look at the problems is, is one side of the cube. So I need all sides. The cubes covered the cube.

Sharon Cline: [00:20:56] All sides of the cube. Cube. The cube. Well, no, you know, it’s funny. We were going to come on the show and talk about fearless, funny things, but this is actually hugely important, I think. And since you’re in the weeds of it and the thick of it right now, it’s and you’re this is what kind of occupies your thoughts. You know, you’ve you’ve really given yourself time, devoted yourself time to what it even feels like to have to go through the process of hiring.

Anna Kawar: [00:21:16] Yeah, yeah, it’s been fun. But I think yeah, I just, I think the people aspect of, of business is so interesting and that’s really what you’re pulling out here on the show. So can I ask you a question?

Sharon Cline: [00:21:29] Oh, my gosh. This is unexpected. Yes, you can. Will.i.am, sir, I’m curious.

Anna Kawar: [00:21:36] What what are there any patterns that you’ve noticed across your guests that’s interesting, Like life lessons that you’ve pulled away from the the number of shows you’ve done so.

Sharon Cline: [00:21:47] Far? Yes, I have. One of the biggest ones is I always ask people, you know, what what advice would you give people out there? And almost everyone invariably says, keep going, keep going, don’t give up on it. Figure out a way around it, but keep going. And if that isn’t doing something in the face of fear or feeling the fear, but doing it anyway, you know, I don’t know what else is. And I appreciate that because I apply that to my life when I’m feeling very overwhelmed. Like like a day like today. It’s been a nonstop boom, boom, boom. And I’m like, What am I doing with my life? As I ride my motorcycle? I’m like, What am I doing? Everything right? I don’t know. I swear my thoughts. But I appreciate that everyone kind of has that notion of of what is it called? Fortitude, you know, where you’re just going to keep going no matter what. One gentleman I had, Chris Sevilla, he has a jujitsu studio in Woodstock, and he was talking about how difficult it was for him to have a business in a different state. And then COVID hit, and it just really challenged him even emotionally. But to come back and just have the faith that it will work out if you try again.

Sharon Cline: [00:22:58] You know, I really appreciated that. I think about that interview a lot. Not only that, but the fact that he said that there were days he would just didn’t want to get out of bed. And I loved he was vulnerable enough to even say that, you know, that was yeah, like, really it was surprising. And in an endearing I sort of was like, you go, yeah, you go, I’m so glad you’re doing so well. You know, it made me happy for him. And I think the main theme that it seems to be is that people’s lives can go this way and then they take another turn and then they take another turn. But we’re all kind of our own hero journey. You know, we’re trying to all save ourselves a little bit or try to be our own saviors in many ways. And no one is exempt from things that that will set someone back. No one is just got golden parachute. It’s all going to be fine. The money’s going to appear. You know, no one’s kind of got this feeling of it’s all going to work out no matter what. And I’m not afraid like, everyone has that fear and I, myself included, all day long.

Anna Kawar: [00:24:01] Yeah. And it’s no matter where people, quote unquote, end up in their life, it’s never been a linear path. It’s always been if you talk to them and you know, they may they may in their commercial spiel, say, I learned this lesson, this happened to me, and then, woo, I got successful. But really it was up and down and hard days, easy days and back and forth and two steps forward, one step back. And I think just being vulnerable and open about that helps other people realize like, Oh, okay, this isn’t this isn’t going to be easy no matter what.

Sharon Cline: [00:24:39] No, you’re right. And I think too, it’s so true. And it feels like. Everyone’s trying to find their happy like they thought they were on one path that would make them really happy. And then eventually they just really weren’t. And when you’re faced with a crossroad where you go and some people have made their own businesses and some people have done something else, it’s just kind of interesting. I mean, I think people’s lives are interesting and I always compare myself, like if I were in that person’s shoes, what I’ve made that decision. And if I wouldn’t, then why? You know, or if I would have, why? I’m kind of always analyzing myself. So this is just a vehicle for that.

Anna Kawar: [00:25:14] Well, I mean, what you said kind of got back to what we were talking about in the beginning is that you and you’re you’re speaking to a a pre-selected group of people who have who have built businesses who are doing amazing things. And so you’re you’re already they’ve they’ve self-selected into this group of people who have that understanding of persistence. And but in the general population, that’s not an easy quality to find people who understand that that that you have to struggle through the you have to just keep what is it, put your faith in the process and not in the outcome. Right. If you have the process and you know that if like if I’m trying to walk from this wall to that wall, all I have to know is that if I keep putting one foot in front of the other, I will eventually get there. Maybe I can’t see it anymore. Maybe it’s covered in fog, maybe it’s whatever. But if I just keep putting one foot in front of the other, some days I’ll see the wall and I’ll realize I’m getting closer. Other days I won’t know where it is and I’ll feel like I’m walking backwards. But I just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And I don’t know. That’s been a big that’s that’s been a great lesson for me too. And I.

Sharon Cline: [00:26:23] Have that. I have a plaque in my kitchen and it says that it’s a martin Luther King Jr quote, and it says, Faith means taking the first step before you see the staircase. And I really appreciate I keep that in my head a lot because I don’t know what life will bring. And I think I worry that I won’t be able to handle my emotions because sometimes I don’t handle them well and I tend to want to numb everything and not look at so but it is it is a journey. That’s something I’m even dealing with right now, is that this this journey that I’m on is it’s not about am I am I going to be happy when I finally get this or do that or achieve this? I mean, yes, I’m sure I will. But am I going to defer the happiness that I could have in this moment? That’s part of the journey, you know? Yeah. Amari is just going to wait until that one thing may happen or may not. I mean, I’m trying to live in the moment and be very mindful. And I think it’s that’s a challenge, especially in business, because when people have so much on the line, it’s like, well, the money’s going to run out in two weeks. You know, what are we going to do? I can’t imagine that pressure. I haven’t been brave enough to have that kind of.

Anna Kawar: [00:27:27] Pressure on me. Yeah, Yeah, me neither. Well, I tried once, and I. I’m not a I’m not. Yeah, it was hard, but I think, I think it’s, it’s. Yeah. It’s admirable to not know what’s going to happen but to keep taking those steps.

Sharon Cline: [00:27:42] It’s true. It’s true. And I think the big thing for me is, and I think most people in business is like knowing that today they believe, they believe in their process, they believe in their business, they believe in what they’re doing enough that they just keep going. A plumber or a jujitsu person or electrician or whoever, hiring managers, you know, they believe enough to just know that today these are my problems to handle. And it really is a microcosm of of kind of what life is, You know, in business is like a version of it, I suppose.

Anna Kawar: [00:28:14] Yeah. Because it’s Yeah, business is made of people. Yeah.

Sharon Cline: [00:28:17] And any time living lives.

Speaker2: [00:28:19] Yeah.

Sharon Cline: [00:28:20] It’s Real Housewives of whatever. I don’t know. I think in the drama of it, you know, the different personalities and the drama of it. But yeah, I mean, this has actually been a really fascinating conversation. I know it’s a little bit of a short, fearless formula, but I just want to thank you for stopping by and giving me kind of, I don’t know, some interesting insight into what it’s like for you and maybe someone out there will listen to it and find some nugget of wisdom as well, which is the whole goal.

Anna Kawar: [00:28:45] Yeah, No, I appreciate it. It’s always fun and it’s been great to to listen to everybody that’s come in. And I think it’s Yeah, always having great conversations. So and I’m looking forward to some motorcycle riding this weekend.

Sharon Cline: [00:28:58] Oh, we’re heading out to North Carolina. We’ll have a good time, I think.

Anna Kawar: [00:29:02] Yes, we will.

Sharon Cline: [00:29:03] All right. Well, listen, I don’t know if my fearless formula outro is going to play, but this is the journey. This is the journey. I’m happy nonetheless. This is sharing Cline reminding you that with knowledge and understanding, you too, can have your own fearless formula. Have a great day, everyone.