Zach Goodfellow with Captain Hook Media

Intro: [00:00:07] Coming to you live from the Business RadioX Studio in Woodstock, Georgia. This is fearless formula with Sharon Cline.

Sharon Cline: [00:00:17] Welcome to Fearless Formula on Business RadioX, where we talk about the ups and downs of the business world and offer words of wisdom for business success. I’m your host, Sharon Cline. And today in the studio we have the co founder of Captain Hook Media, which is the best name ever. It just sounds so fascinating to me. He’s a composer musician. I mean you’ve got you’ve got like you’re the jack of all trades kind of person. That is just so yeah, so excited to have in the studio because we have so much to talk about. Welcome to Zach Goodfellow.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:00:49] I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Sharon Cline: [00:00:51] Of course. Me too. And we have met previously because we were talking about voice over things and kind of getting into the industry, which I like to do, and anything I know is wonderful to share, but also cool, because I got to know a little bit about what you’re involved in. In your world, you have a home studio, you’re obviously you’re into music, but you I if I, I know I cyberstalked you a little bit, but there’s, there’s, there’s like actual music on iTunes and Apple and things that you’ve done. So which is similar to different things that I’ve done. I’ve had my hand in lots of different ways in media. But right now your main focus right now is, is being the co founder of Captain Hook Media. So can you explain to me a little bit about that.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:01:33] Yeah. So we Captain Hook Media is me and my dad and we write music for between the two of us, really anything that fits the sound that we’ve kind of developed, we have kind of a very cinematic, over-the-top, overdramatic kind of sound. We both grew up watching movies and Star Wars and video games and all that. So we’ve done some podcast intros. We’ve done some stuff for like YouTube channels, but mainly my dad works in TV and film and I work in video games. But we are, yeah, music composers.

Sharon Cline: [00:02:03] Scott Goodfellow.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:02:04] Yes.

Sharon Cline: [00:02:05] I like on your website it’s called The Sound of Your Story. Yes.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:02:09] We wanted to make sure that we emphasize that like. We love storytelling. We love being a part of of stories. We’ve done jobs where it’s just, you know, background music for for nothing. And that’s cool. That has its place and all that. But we’re both, again, grew up watching a lot of movies and loving following characters and following a good story. So I really wanted the the website to convey that, like, we’re here to help you tell the story with whatever it needs. We’re not here to try and grab the spotlight from you and write super flashy music like we want to help you. Get your message across.

Sharon Cline: [00:02:43] I think people underestimate how important that is. Or maybe don’t even realize how they’re being impacted by that.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:02:49] Absolutely, absolutely.

Sharon Cline: [00:02:51] So what’s cool about the music that you make is it says on your website that you are cleared and ready to be licensed, so no one has to worry about any kind of legal issues. This is all music for them. Right?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:03:02] Exactly right. We want to make everything as seamless as possible.

Sharon Cline: [00:03:05] So when someone approaches you and says, here’s my video game concept or this is what I’m working on, the themes of what they say to you is that what informs you on the way that you’re creating music?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:03:16] Yeah. So it’s person to person. A lot of times they’ll, you know, they’ll they’re hiring us to be the experts. They don’t really have much of an idea. So we’ll we’ll do a lot of kind of coaxing and just kind of getting to know, you know, tell me about why you’re making this project. So I’m just going to for the sake of not keeping everything unbearably vague.

Speaker3: [00:03:35] I’ll talk in the, in.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:03:37] The context of like a video game. So a developer comes to me and they’re like, hey, I’ve got this idea I need music. Can you help? More often than not, it’s a matter of like, okay, tell me about the game. What’s the story? What is the world like? Is it mid-evil? Is it kind of sci fi? What inspired you to make this game? What games did you grow up playing? And just as many questions as I can get to get a feel for where their brain is at. Um, that way I can at least have an educated guess on what things sound like. The majority of the process is, hey, I wrote this thing. Do you like this thing? No, I hate that. All right, cool. We’ll try something else. Hey, what about this one that’s closer. What about. It’s closer. It’s a very big throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Sharon Cline: [00:04:19] It reminds me of voiceover, the voiceover world. Because people who write copy and they’re looking, they have an idea of a voice in their head, but they don’t know it until they hear the voice oftentimes. Right. So that sounds like what you’re talking about, where someone has a concept. I want it to sound big and epic. Okay. What does that actually translate to? And you could give them something big and epic, but it has the wrong feel. But they didn’t even know that right until you explained it.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:04:43] And that’s what I that’s what made me at a young age, fall in love with music, is that it’s not it’s it’s not necessarily like a tangible thing you can describe. It’s a feeling. So to, to hit what you’re saying, they don’t they don’t know the voice until they hear it. It’s like, I don’t know how to describe to you what I want to hear, but I know what I want to feel when I hear it. And so once you hit that, it’s like, oh, I just felt the thing, okay, we’re on to something. And that’s what makes music so much fun to me.

Sharon Cline: [00:05:06] Oh that’s amazing. And you’re right, it is an emotional reaction and an impact that you’re having. So how did you get to where you are now? I saw that you went to Lassiter High School, obviously here in Georgia, right? Also fellow KSU owl. Hootie hoo. Hootie hoo hoo hoo hoo. You. And so Georgia native, is that where you’ve.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:05:27] Been born and raised? Yep. Wow. I mean, I was from a day old. I grew up right next to Lassiter High School. Oh, wow.

Sharon Cline: [00:05:34] That’s wild. Yeah. So the changes you’ve seen are probably so significant.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:05:37] Oh my God. Wild. Yeah.

Sharon Cline: [00:05:39] But how cool. You’ve got a network of people that are right here in town that you’ve grown up with, which is nice for sure. So how did you get to obviously, you said that you and your father were really into music and but how did you get to your business that you’re in now?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:05:54] Man, it’s been a just series of falling backwards into different things.

Sharon Cline: [00:06:00] I laugh because I’m like, yep, I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:06:04] I’m such a a shiny object person where I get an idea and that idea has to be pursued, I don’t know, whatever it is, I got to commit to it to see what’s there. I’m just now figuring out how to tame that a little bit. Gotcha. But yeah, my dad was a he’s been a musician all his life. So I was born into music. My dad was in a in a very Journey esque band when I was born at the time. And how cool is that? Yeah, they were called tandem. Their their stuff is still on the internet somewhere.

Sharon Cline: [00:06:31] Amazing.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:06:32] Yeah. They were they were really fun. They did. They sold some records in Brazil and never picked up too much in the States. But so I was born into music. I loved music very early on. I started playing guitar when I was like 8 or 9, started writing my first terrible stuff.

Speaker3: [00:06:51] When I was 14.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:06:53] 15. You mentioned that you found some of my stuff on iTunes and Spotify. I would that’s, that’s. I don’t take it down because I’m proud of it. But that is very, very old, very, very old stuff.

Speaker3: [00:07:06] The internet.

Sharon Cline: [00:07:06] Is forever. Oh yeah. But at the same time, that’s a stepping stone to where for sure.

Speaker3: [00:07:10] Like I said, it’s cool.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:07:11] I’m talking jokingly. I’m very proud of what we made, but it’s very, very I was 16 and angsty and.

Speaker3: [00:07:18] You know, it’s very.

Sharon Cline: [00:07:20] Wow, you get to revisit who you were then when you listen to it. Interesting.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:07:25] So that’s how I got into music, but I never really took music like I never. Really committed to it as a serious thing until later in my life. It was just something that I did for fun. So I went to all through high school, did that album in college, started a band with some of my friends from high school, and we did pretty well. We toured very, very locally. We did a couple of like, you know, we drove like an hour was the farthest we went, but we had some good shows. We opened up for a couple of bands that I grew up listening to. That’s amazing, which was a very, very cool experience. That experience ultimately taught me, though, that I didn’t enjoy that lifestyle. I really I’m a homebody, I love my family. I love being, you know, home at night. And that lifestyle doesn’t agree with that. You know, that’s you hop in a bus and go to the next town over if you’re really going to succeed at that. And I’ve always been someone who’s like, okay, I could work on this, but what does this lead to? I’ve always been like a long term thinker. So I hit a point where we were working really hard in that band, but I was like, okay, but if this succeeds, it creates a life that I’m not going to enjoy. So what’s what’s the point of all this hard work? Right? So I let that go and then I just kind of wandered. That’s when I was in college. I didn’t know what I wanted to study, so I took up a business degree, as most Los creatives do, and I got a degree in professional sales. My performing background really helped in sales, and I just kind of figured, all right, I guess. I mean, I’m decent at this. I guess this will work for a little bit. Hopped into an internship selling telemarketing, and two weeks in, I was like, okay, I’m ready to jump.

Speaker3: [00:09:12] I’m ready to jump out the window. This is unacceptable. Oh, wow.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:09:16] Um, and so this is a loaded story. Please let me. I’m a rambler, so stop me if I’m going too far in love. But after the internship, that was like, okay, I can’t I can’t do sales. Um, and luckily I have my best friend was from like 12 years old, an entrepreneur, he lawn mowing business and immediately knew he was going to build his own thing. So his influence had me start starting to look up other things. And I started getting into like Facebook advertising because it was the part of sales that I enjoyed. It was the the catchy lines and the performing stuff and that, and that was fun. And my wife and I started doing that for kind of local businesses for a little while, and that got me through the next couple of years, got me through college. But again, I reached the point of like, okay, so now it’s starting to demand a lot more of my time and I don’t really want to give it that time. What’s the point of this investment? So now I was lost again. Now I’m curious. I’m trying to figure out where I want to go. And I had the bright idea. Okay, I’m working for myself now, but what I could do is go get this other sales job for a company called HubSpot that did marketing software because, like, I know, marketing, I could just go get this full time job, and then in my free time, I’ll go build my music business again.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:10:35] I’m not sure why I thought that was going to pan out, but again, six months into the sales job, I’m miserable. This isn’t going to work. So at that point I’m this. This was three years ago, so I’m 25. And at that point I was like, I’m ready to just commit to the music, because what I ultimately learned was I had put all of this investment and all of this effort into these, these different skills. I learned Facebook ads and I was able to reach relative success there, I learned sales, I was able to reach relative success there. And I was like, what would where would I be if I had invested that six years into building this music career? And that’s a whole, you know, we can jump down that mental tangent of why I didn’t pursue that in a bit, but I decided, all right, it’s time to start being a musician and seeing what happens. So. I called up a friend of mine who had managed the wedding band for my wedding and I was like, hey, I am miserable at my job. I’m ready to leave. I know you’re recruiting people. I can sing like crazy. I’m a great performer. I would love to help out.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:11:41] Just tell me where you need me. And luckily he needed he needed front men. So I went and did weddings for wasn’t long. It was a couple of months and for about a year I did the weddings and I was playing like locally, playing at restaurants, just scrounging money. And that was that was a good experience. I made good money doing that and it really showed me that I can make I can feed my wife and I through music. So I’m most grateful for what that did for my confidence. But again reached a point where it’s like, okay, but the only way I can do this is by working every night, every weekend so I don’t get to spend time with my wife on the weekends. This sucks. Um, and around that time of the wedding band, my dad and I had finally come across the world of sync licensing, which we had never experienced before, we had never heard of. But essentially, that’s the whole industry where music for advertisements and TV shows and basically anything that has music, that’s the industry where that happens and learning how that works. So my dad and I were like, okay, well, we’re writing music anyway. Why don’t we try and pitch it to some people and I promise I’m going to get to Captain Hook Media in a second.

Speaker3: [00:12:53] No, we’re almost there, I love it.

Sharon Cline: [00:12:54] This is this is the way life turns out, though this is what’s interesting to me is, is the twists and turns and the things that you learn about yourself along the way. Right. So this is I’m fascinated. Keep going.

Speaker3: [00:13:05] Okay.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:13:06] Um, so we started doing that and it’s sync licensing is a difficult beast because of how subjective music is. You’re really just essentially the business model is I’m going to, as a musician, write this big old library of music. I’m going to write 20 songs of this certain style and then go and shop it to these libraries, hoping that they that it fits their sound and that they have a use for it. It just it it was it was inspiring to try. But for me again, having now a couple of years entrepreneurial background with the marketing thing and knowing, trying to figure out market and need and all that stuff, it’s like, okay, but like this seems so inefficient. Or we’re putting months and months of work into these songs with no direct customer in mind, right? Um, so then we started exploring other options and we started looking into what does custom work look like, where who’s buying custom music right now? And thus Captain Hook Media was born.

Sharon Cline: [00:14:10] Where did the name come from? I like the name.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:14:12] So it is from.

Speaker3: [00:14:14] Because it’s the.

Sharon Cline: [00:14:15] Hook of music. Yeah.

Speaker3: [00:14:16] Okay, so.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:14:17] My dad and I, ever since I was a kid, have always when we listen to music, we’ve always bonded over the musicians that make really catchy music. You know? Journey and Bon Jovi was what I grew up on, that kind of stuff. Daughtry more recently.

Speaker3: [00:14:31] That’s classic.

Sharon Cline: [00:14:32] Classic.

Speaker3: [00:14:32] Music.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:14:33] Exactly. It’ll live forever because it’s so catchy, even if you don’t like it. Everyone knows the chorus to Don’t Stop Believing.

Speaker3: [00:14:39] I know, and they all sing it.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:14:40] Absolutely, because it’s so that’s the hook of the song. So any time we see an artist who just constantly cranks out hooks. Oh, that’s a Captain Hook. And so we got to this company now. All right. We need to brand it so that people know what we are. He and I both love writing catchy stuff, so just it just worked out.

Sharon Cline: [00:14:58] That’s amazing.

Speaker3: [00:14:59] Thank you.

Sharon Cline: [00:15:00] You’re welcome. So along your journey being a wedding singer, what are some of the things that you saw that you were just like, I can’t be a wedding singer.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:15:07] Weddings are chaotic, man. It’s so. I’m not a high stress person. I’m a very laid back person. I like calm, chill vibes and it just doesn’t exist in the industry.

Speaker3: [00:15:19] Got you by.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:15:20] Nature. It’s such a now, now, now, now, now, now now.

Sharon Cline: [00:15:25] Industry and high emotions too, right?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:15:28] Very high emotions. And it’s very rewarding to to pull it off, you know, to get everything happen to make this happen for the couple. I really enjoyed the memories of seeing everybody dancing. And that’s what I’ve always loved about performing. It’s like, I don’t remember where I got this quote, but someone describes performance as a constant state of giving because when you’re doing a good job at performing, you can see people are changing from stagnant to excited and having fun. So being able to give that joy is amazing. But it’s the all the in-betweens of okay, this is late, okay, we said you had a stage, but now you’re playing on the back of this truck, okay, there’s no electricity anywhere. It’s just. Not for me. Not for me.

Sharon Cline: [00:16:10] When you were performing, when you were initially with your band in college, was it music that you wrote as well?

Speaker3: [00:16:18] Yes. Yeah.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:16:18] So we were we were a progressive metal band. So anybody out there that’s fans of like, Breaking Benjamin and those kind of bands? Yeah, that that I really look back on that fondly and I’m still very close friends with all four of those guys all still doing really cool stuff in music. But yeah, that was all original music. That was a really fun experience. That’s really where I learned how to write.

Sharon Cline: [00:16:43] I think one of the best things about making music, writing music is, is that creation energy is so amazing to me because afterwards you’re like, this song exists. That didn’t exist a day ago, and now it’s now it’s all put together and someone could be singing it. And the effect that it can have, the legacy that you’re leaving. And it’s this creation energy is just powerful.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:17:02] Absolutely. It’s so addictive. It’s so addictive. It’s the best that that creator’s high is just it’s the best cloud nine feeling.

Speaker3: [00:17:11] It’s true. It doesn’t.

Sharon Cline: [00:17:12] Even. It feels like, um, if more people knew what that felt like, they’d be inclined to do it.

Speaker3: [00:17:18] Absolutely, absolutely.

Sharon Cline: [00:17:21] All right, so you had your band then you obviously were able to continue to grow on your skills as you were being the wedding singer. And then as you started to understand the industry of being able to write music, it’s nice that you’ve got your dad, right, who’s.

Speaker3: [00:17:38] Very, very helpful.

Sharon Cline: [00:17:39] Right. That’s great. And he’s being the co-founder with you. So nice to work with people that you know in your family you trust. Absolutely. And are talented. And then now that you’ve got kind of an understanding more about how the industry works and that you did want to have a client specific in mind, how did that change what you were writing? So did you have like your library before? Was it more esoteric? Was it more just this is what I’m thinking we should write today, and that’s what you did, but it just never really landed.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:18:08] To be honest, that it was all so generic. Because you can’t you can’t make it. The thing with like what is called production music, which is the stuff that’s not soundtrack like, you know, movie music, the production music is the the music you hear in the background of a Taco Bell commercial. Right? The thing with that is that market needs it to be complete, almost nonexistent. Like it needs to be interesting, but it can’t ever take anybody’s attention. Which to a point I can get it, but it’s so two. To only write that music for me is very unfulfilling. It’s very like, okay, you learn your formula and even, you know, I’m a big like online course person. I did a lot of self-education on it, and even the educators in the space will tell you, like, look, it’s it’s kind of boring. You come up with your formula and you make seven tracks a week so you can have a better chance of getting getting caught up. And that makes perfect sense from a business perspective. But after having done the sales and the marketing things and realizing I don’t really care about mass wealth, I you know, it’s not the amount of money I make, it’s how I make it.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:19:18] Right. So I didn’t see that as a sustainable 9 to 5 job for me to just be writing this generic. Hopefully no one notices it. Music, you know what I mean? So for me it really changed into. I want to be part of bigger projects I don’t want. I never when I was performing, I never liked the spotlight either. It was always, you know, put on the show because that’s what you’re supposed to do, but I don’t. I’m not a big spotlight person. I like being a supporter. So. Now writing music becomes a even when I don’t have a customer. If I’m just practicing, I’ll go find like a game that inspires me. Okay, what would serve this scene? What would serve this world I like? I like the collaborative effort of this thing now exists because someone else made it. How can I make it more real? You know? How can I bring that emotional impact in a little harder for this particular setting?

Sharon Cline: [00:20:15] So you do it even just for fun?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:20:16] Oh, absolutely. It’s the most fun.

Sharon Cline: [00:20:19] Well, no one’s like expecting anything so you can make it however you would want it, right? Which is nice. Right? So what was it about sales that you felt like you could. Not really. I’m not a sales person either, and I’m not good at it at all. But what was it about it? I’m wondering if we have similar themes. We’ll see. That didn’t work.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:20:35] What I’ve learned about sales for me is I think everybody is good at it. You just have to care about what you’re selling. So you had no trouble getting me on to this podcast because you loved this podcast. You know what it does for people. You know, the benefit that it brings to people that are on it. You didn’t you didn’t have to try, right? That to me is proper sales. So what I was running into, I mean, I do all the sales for Captain Hook Media, I do all of the outreach and all that. It’s very different experience. What I was finding was that like for HubSpot example, they’re a CRM and marketing software, right? I didn’t care, you.

Speaker3: [00:21:08] Know, like they’re.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:21:09] They’re a great company, great product. I would recommend them to anybody. But like I would cold call and be like, hey, what’s up? I’m with HubSpot. We do CRM stuff and they’d be like, yeah, we’re really happy with Active Campaign. Oh, okay. Cool.

Speaker3: [00:21:24] Sorry.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:21:25] You know, like my managers would be like, can you try and lean back?

Speaker3: [00:21:29] But it’s like, no, they don’t want it.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:21:32] I don’t active campaign is awesome.

Speaker3: [00:21:34] Like I get it.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:21:35] I could see why they’d be happy. So I’m just I don’t have the like I could sell anything to anybody. Jean. Some people have that. Some people are just so unbelievably outgoing and they can just knock that. I just don’t have that.

Sharon Cline: [00:21:47] I don’t either. But it’s interesting to me to think that you’re right. We could make money in lots of different ways. I could be doing anything different and make more money, but the quality of my life would be impacted significantly if I didn’t really enjoy it. But then, now my lifestyle is dependent upon the money that I’m making for whatever job I had. I’m wondering if you find that as you are staying really true to what feels right to you, if the right people find you at the right time, or have you had to struggle because I’m. I’m curious how your journey has been impacted by your belief in. You are living your truth.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:22:28] Yeah. I mean, there’s definitely there’s definitely both things that you just said. There’s the struggle and there’s the like sparks of, wow, this is meant to happen, right? I’m a big faith person and I one thing sales did teach me is, you know, delayed gratification. You got to plant your seeds now so that you can reap the harvest six months from now. So for the first, I mean, honestly, still today, we’re still kind of the company is not making a crazy amount of money. I was able to quit my sales job, thankfully, but it’s not like, you know, it’s still very much a. Ebb and flow of when we’re busy, when we’re not busy. But you know, we officially started Captain Hook Media January of 2022.

Sharon Cline: [00:23:11] And still pandemic.

Speaker3: [00:23:13] A little bit.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:23:14] Yeah, still post-pandemic for sure. Um, we didn’t get our first real contract till October of that year, and we were just kind of floating around writing music and pitching until then. But to the second point of the right, people find you at the right time. Um, you know, luck to me is opportunity meets preparation, right? So I put out a listing on Fiverr. I’m sure as a voice actor, you’re familiar with Fiverr, right? Um, for video game music, I was like, it can’t hurt. It’s free, you know? Why not? I’ll put something up. And I put some of our tracks on there. And, you know, within a week of that first listing, I was contacted by a guy named Sharif, now a very close friend of mine. He is the CEO of a company, Valaria Games, there in Canada. And they’re doing this really awesome. I don’t know a lot about crypto and NFTs and all that, but there are a web three game, so it’s a mobile game tied in with cryptocurrencies and NFTs. So like the characters that you have, you have actual ownership of and you can interesting. It’s very fascinating way over my head. I just really like the game. But he contacted me. He’s like, hey, we’re starting up this thing, I need music. Can you send something over? And, um, you know, my dad and I both hopped on it, and thankfully I recognized the type of game he was making because I’ve played those kind of games. So we hit it off on the game very early on and we sent him something over. He liked it, and then from there it’s blossomed into I mean, that contract was the reason I was able to leave my sales job. So there is definitely a trust, the process element to any creative endeavor. I would imagine it’s very much a work now, play later type thing. And then there have been just little gems of right place, right time, preparation meets opportunity that they come and they make the the dry periods worth it, you know?

Sharon Cline: [00:25:08] Have you played the game and seen or listened to your music in the background?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:25:13] It’s not out yet, but he did send me a testable version and to see my music in a play. One of the coolest.

Speaker3: [00:25:19] Experiences I’ve ever.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:25:20] I’ve ever had.

Speaker3: [00:25:21] Yeah. So satisfying.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:25:22] Yeah, because we did all the sound effects too. So, like, everything you hear in that game is us.

Speaker3: [00:25:27] So it’s like.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:25:28] Whoa.

Speaker3: [00:25:29] How lucky to.

Sharon Cline: [00:25:30] Have found each other.

Speaker3: [00:25:31] Right?

Sharon Cline: [00:25:31] Yeah, right. Like you said, the right time. Timing is a huge part of it, I imagine.

Speaker3: [00:25:36] Absolutely.

Sharon Cline: [00:25:37] What do you think people don’t know about the industry that you’re in?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:25:42] Oh my gosh a lot. I still don’t know. You know I think honestly that it exists.

Speaker3: [00:25:49] I was going to say.

Sharon Cline: [00:25:50] How often do I, I was thinking, as you were speaking about the music in the background of shows or backgrounds of commercials, like everything on HGTV, like they’re walking into a house, you know, and there’s some kind of stylized music in the background, and every intro and outro has something. So I imagine that’s what your.

Speaker3: [00:26:09] Industry came from.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:26:10] Somebody. Right? So the industry essentially works as you have your, your writers and then you have what are called libraries, which are the shop keepers of the publishers, essentially. So the writers submit their music to the libraries, and the libraries have their industry contacts with HGTV or ABC Hollywood, whatever. And hey, you guys have that big blockbuster trailer coming out here. All the trailers that we had written this month, pick one and then we’ll get the paperwork signed. It’s a it’s a very like trickle down type of system, but it’s huge. It’s huge. I think as cap and BMI, which are the two you’re familiar with process. Yeah I mean they I think I read I could be horribly misquoting this. I’m not good with memorizing numbers. But in 2022 I think they, they dished out, you know, somewhere in the 100 millions worth of royalties to writers. So like, there’s a lot of people making making a living in that. And that was one of the most inspiring things to me, that if there’s any other musicians listening that I always make the huge mistake of, like, you see the huge names that make a living in music, but there’s this ocean of people beneath them that aren’t huge and wealthy, but pay their bills doing music, and it’s not this unattainable. Oh, I’ve got to be Taylor Swift in order to have a music career. There’s so many people that you would you don’t know.

Sharon Cline: [00:27:38] I follow these amazing songwriters on Instagram. Once I find one, and then I see who else they are involved in, and sometimes I feel like they’re the unsung heroes, you know? It’s like the drummers of a band. I always feel like, wow, they worked really hard and everyone saw the lead singer, right? Like a big drummer fan. But yeah, so thinking about that ocean of people who never get that credit unless it’s a Grammy that they happen to say for writing this song, but they’re never really known. Right?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:28:09] Right. And I mean, that’s to a lot of creatives, myself included, that’s that’s like that’s a plus side. You know, you get to have the career and still go to, you know, Kroger and.

Speaker3: [00:28:18] Not have to.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:28:18] Worry about getting bombarded. Right.

Speaker3: [00:28:20] Like it’s so true.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:28:20] It’s such a possible career path.

Sharon Cline: [00:28:24] So what is the dream like? What would you love to see happen as your career progresses? You and your father and your business?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:28:31] I can’t speak for my father. I think we’re both still in discovering it. Things I know he just wants to be able to enjoy. They’re probably the same man. He just wants be able to enjoy his life, write some music and retire. You know, because my parents are both pretty much retired. He’s he’s in the business as a means of of getting to write music, work with me, and, and we get to work together. I’m definitely more in the, like, blood thirsty, looking for, looking for a career spot than he is. But it works out. Um. I think. I think both of us just want to be able to like. Play, you know, enjoy the way we live our lives. And I know for me, I’ve been doing so much reading on on this, on the importance of play to the human mind, because I find I’m so fascinated by the creative mind and how it works. But like, it’s just it’s we’re taught. When we’re kids, it’s second nature to just put things together. You know, when you’re a kid singing a song that you love. You’re not worried about if you’re on key or if you sound good, you just it’s it’s a blast.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:29:37] And we’re taught later on that that’s not what you do. You don’t get you don’t do that. You go and get your work done and you go be responsible. And it’s like there’s a there’s an obvious place for hard work and discipline, but not, in my opinion, not to the cost of play. So if I, if I could write up where my life goes career wise, I just want to learn how to access and live in that place state and make it valuable to somebody else and inspire someone else to do the same. That’s that’s why I do the music, because even doing music for video games, for me, it’s a matter of like, how can I make this scene much more exciting for the person playing it, you know, how do I give them more, more play and joy out of this moment? So I really just want to get more to to what you said. If more people knew what that creative high feels like, more people would do it. And I really would love to be in some way part of spreading that knowledge.

Sharon Cline: [00:30:37] And it’s interesting when people are playing again, it’s background. They’re not thinking this crescendo or this epic. I don’t even know how to describe the music.

Speaker3: [00:30:45] You’re doing great. Oh, great.

Sharon Cline: [00:30:47] I don’t play video games, but I’m imagining, but just not even realizing how much that’s impacting what they’re experiencing. Yeah, but what’s cool is your journey has been, like you said, twists and turns. But along the way, you’ve learned very valuable lessons to put you in this space of appreciating where you are now. You wouldn’t have before if you hadn’t experienced those things.

Speaker3: [00:31:08] Absolutely.

Sharon Cline: [00:31:09] If you could talk to your younger self, what would lesson would you want your younger self to have known before you started your where you are now in your job?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:31:19] Well, there’s the easy cop out answer.

Speaker3: [00:31:21] Of like, what is that?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:31:22] I wouldn’t change anything because everything I’ve done brought me to where I am today.

Speaker3: [00:31:25] Like that’s is that the cop out? There’s truth to that for sure.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:31:28] But that’s a boring.

Speaker3: [00:31:29] Answer. All right, be creative here.

Sharon Cline: [00:31:31] I’m just kidding. No, I think the same thing.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:31:33] I would love to tell myself, like, you know, trust the process. I would love to have an answer on how to get rid of that whole imposter syndrome thing to myself, but I still haven’t found that answer, and I’m not sure we’re ever meant to. I think that’s a sign that you care about things. So maybe that’s the lesson. Like, hey, the imposter syndrome is a good thing. The fact that you don’t think, even though you put all this work in, that you’re good enough to do anything with it, it shows that you care about it, and that’s a sign that you’re going to be okay. Um.

Sharon Cline: [00:32:08] That’s very interesting twist on that. Given that if you didn’t really care, if you didn’t care if it succeeds or not, or if you’re good at it or not, you’re just you’re not invested enough.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:32:18] You’re not phoning in. I don’t think anyone with that mentality where I’m just trying to I’m just trying to get it out and do it, whatever. I don’t care about it. Like they’ll find quick success, sure, but I don’t think that’s sustainable. I don’t think anybody ever like, finds their. I’m good in that place.

Sharon Cline: [00:32:37] Right where they can feel as if they’ve. Succeeded as much as they possibly can. They’re just getting paid to to show up and say the words or do whatever. Yeah.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:32:48] It’s empty. You’re never going to be fulfilled with that. You know, that’s that’s one of the feelings that, you know, I always ended up coming back to music through the sales and the marketing and all that. It’s like it was always a this will work for now. Feeling this is cool for now. But why? You know, like why why not go do the thing right now? Why not? Why not put your effort into something that you can rather than say this will work for now. You can say this will work forever. That’s I mean that’s know that’s probably it might be a young overambitious thing to think but like that’s. I just I that’s how my brain works. I’ve never even like my wife. I asked her out in high school. She was my really only girlfriend. Like I’ve never been into. Like, if I’m going to take you out to dinner, there should be a plan here.

Speaker3: [00:33:41] I’m not.

Sharon Cline: [00:33:41] It’s not just for now.

Speaker3: [00:33:42] Yeah, I’m not interested. What are we.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:33:44] Wasting our time for? You know, and I see the same thing as far as my career goes. Like, if I’m doing this job and you have side jobs, like, I wait tables now to make the the creative thing a little bit. I don’t have to put as much pressure on it. That’s fine. But something that takes your 40 hours a week energy. Why would you give that to something that’s not inspiring you for tomorrow? You know, how.

Sharon Cline: [00:34:05] Many people do you think? Don’t think that way.

Speaker3: [00:34:07] Oh, so I think most most people.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:34:09] Absolutely most people. Because it’s really scary thing to think that way. There’s a lot of because the world’s going to tell you you’re crazy because no one else thinks that way, and you really have nothing but your own, like faith and self belief to lean on when the world’s telling you you’re crazy for thinking that way. So it’s very difficult and very scary to think that.

Speaker3: [00:34:29] Way, and lonely.

Sharon Cline: [00:34:30] In some.

Speaker3: [00:34:31] Ways, very much so.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:34:32] If you if I didn’t have my dad and my wife, who are both also very creative like that, my mom too, like if I didn’t have people to lean on, I’d probably still be at the sales job because it’s a scary it’s a scary leap to take, you know.

Sharon Cline: [00:34:46] And you don’t know anybody that’s doing that exact thing right in your world, right?

Speaker3: [00:34:50] Right.

Sharon Cline: [00:34:50] Yeah. So you learn the hard way. Yeah.

Speaker3: [00:34:53] For sure. Is there a.

Sharon Cline: [00:34:54] School that teaches you how to do this?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:34:57] I have. I mean, I haven’t come across I could ramble about my my opinions on college.

Sharon Cline: [00:35:02] Well, I’m thinking, is there a like like I went to a voiceover school.

Speaker3: [00:35:05] Yeah, there.

Sharon Cline: [00:35:06] Have to.

Speaker3: [00:35:07] There are courses. Absolutely. There are online courses.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:35:10] Oh, okay. Um, I mean, I could, I could list them. I know a couple off the top of my head.

Sharon Cline: [00:35:15] I mean, that’s okay. If there’s anyone that wants more information, I would like to at the end have them. Okay. Cool. Be able to contact you.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:35:21] There’s a there’s a couple that I would highly recommend, ones that actual like online university. You can get a postgrad degree.

Speaker3: [00:35:27] Oh no way. Who knew. Yeah.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:35:29] So they exist. They’re just obviously it’s not very commercial. So they fly under the radar a little more, but they’re out there.

Sharon Cline: [00:35:35] When do you think that this video game that you were able to be part of will be released? Do you know.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:35:42] Last I heard, it’s I believe it’s been delayed a couple of times. That’s why I’m a little confused on it, but I believe they’re doing like a closed private access, like testing.

Speaker3: [00:35:55] Like beta testing. Yeah.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:35:56] This month you can go on their website valaria, games.com and sign up for it. I believe the game is supposed to release early 2024 like first couple of months of.

Speaker3: [00:36:06] So it’s coming.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:36:06] Yeah, it’s almost here.

Sharon Cline: [00:36:08] Well, imagine what will happen when people play this game and then your name gets out. I’m just to I’m just.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:36:14] I, I’m just excited to be able to download it on the App Store.

Speaker3: [00:36:17] Yeah I was part of that. That’s going to be cool.

Sharon Cline: [00:36:22] I like that you focus on feeling because so many parts of business have absolutely nothing to do with feeling. It’s paying the bills and it’s what is that left brain, you know, cost benefit, those kinds of things. But people are the heart of business and people are inherently obviously feeling so building relationships with people, honoring what you’ve said, making someone feel safe, making someone feel like they can rely on you, making someone’s quality of life better, and all the various businesses that we’ve had on the show are all very important to business. And so many people do talk. They do talk about how they want to be relied upon, and they want to be considered competent and have pride in their work. But I like that you focus on how much music makes someone feel so different, because all of us have had those moments where we’ve heard a song from our childhood and we can remember there’s such a crazy tie and I don’t even understand it, but a crazy tie between our emotions and what we hear.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:37:20] Yeah, and it’s really hard to explain.

Sharon Cline: [00:37:23] It is, it is, but I’m sure people all can understand it. So I hadn’t really thought about that side of what you do, talking about how much you have the the feel behind your inspiration. So translating a feeling into something you hear is, I don’t know, a leap in my mind. It is. It’s like you’re trying to get my brain.

Speaker3: [00:37:43] When you hear.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:37:44] Musicians talk to each other, it makes no.

Speaker3: [00:37:45] Sense whatsoever. Like I.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:37:47] Want that. I just want it to sound chewier.

Speaker3: [00:37:49] Yeah. Like, you know, like there’s.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:37:51] Never any terms that make any sense.

Speaker3: [00:37:54] Yeah, like more.

Sharon Cline: [00:37:54] Staccato, because that’s going to make it feel this way or like, you know, choppy or whatever, because it’s going to make it feel chaotic or it’s hard to put those.

Speaker3: [00:38:00] Words together.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:38:01] My dad and I just finished a theme song for a game that’s coming out, and it’s like a it’s like a science fiction horror game. It’s like mutants and stuff like that. So we wanted it to sound scary, but we kept it was never we don’t speak in theory terms. It was always like, no, this sounds like this sounds like it’s haunted. I want to sound like we’re being hunted. It’s very different feelings.

Speaker3: [00:38:22] Like, you know, so that’s how.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:38:24] You discuss it, because it’s got to be. It’s got to be vibes. It’s got to be feelings. You know, I’m not a very I don’t know, a whole lot of music theory. I’m not a very technical person. It’s just it doesn’t feel right. I can’t I can’t tell you why that part sounds too happy.

Speaker3: [00:38:38] It’s just stuff like.

Sharon Cline: [00:38:38] Doesn’t sound scary enough or haunted enough. Yeah, or lonely enough or whatever.

Speaker3: [00:38:42] It is exactly.

Sharon Cline: [00:38:44] Fascinating to me.

Speaker3: [00:38:45] Yeah, it’s.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:38:45] A universal language, you know? It’s just everyone doesn’t matter if you speak English, Spanish, Japanese, whatever. Like, I can play you something that sounds scary and you’re all, everyone’s going to feel unsettled, like you put strings out of tune together. That doesn’t feel good. That’s just fun to play with that.

Sharon Cline: [00:39:01] I haven’t told this story since high school, but when I was 15, I was able to go to Japan for a month through an exchange program. It was a group of us from the United States went to Japan, and we had a host family, different host families, and we got to know these people. The next summer, they came over to the same families and people we knew. They came over to visit with us in the US. And something so cool and obviously challenging when you’re a teenager. We couldn’t speak Japanese. I mean, there are certain phrases I knew, but the translation issue was real and we had translators. But one of the moments that I always was stuck with me was we were in front of a piano in a school at one point, and one of the Japanese students sat down and started to play a classical piece. And then one of the United States or the American students knew that piece and sat down together. Amazing. And they played the same song like, you know, complimenting each other. And it was just a wonderful way to, like, have a, have a sharing moment that had absolutely nothing to do with that particular language, but but be able to share music. Yeah. And it was like a little intimate connection. Yeah. That they were able to have. And I always thought how important music was in seeing that, because it just was heartwarming in some way. And they were like smiling at each other. And it was a sweet.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:40:25] That’s a connection that. Yeah, you can’t you can’t compare that.

Sharon Cline: [00:40:28] No, I mean, no matter. And there were no words spoken. Yeah. It wasn’t about the words. So it was really.

Speaker3: [00:40:34] You go to a.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:40:35] You go to a concert and be arm in arm with two strangers that speak totally different language, but you’re singing the same song together and you’re joined together in.

Speaker3: [00:40:42] That doesn’t matter. The energy. Yeah.

Sharon Cline: [00:40:44] I went to a Bruce Springsteen concert.

Speaker3: [00:40:47] Yeah, you made a lot of friends. Then it was like with my.

Sharon Cline: [00:40:51] Cousin who travels the whole, he’s lucky enough to travel the world because he’s a huge Springsteen fan. He goes to almost all of his concerts. I mean, they’re Springsteen people that this is what they do and they all know each other. But I was not the biggest Springsteen fan at the time, and so I was happy to go to accompany him. He was here in Atlanta and we were watching, you know, we were very close up to the stage. And of course, he’s playing these, these classic songs and everyone’s just singing. And there was a moment where I was just not really listening to the song, but observing the crowd and seeing everyone on this same wavelength was so powerful to me, because I actually wasn’t on that same wavelength. I was able to kind of look, look around and observe what people are all experiencing in this moment. My emotions weren’t caught, but all of theirs were, and it was neat to see, and I was. I can still remember looking around was sold out. I don’t even know how many people were there. It was in is it Philips Arena? It’s not called a State Farm arena. I can’t remember one next to CNN. So watching all of these people really feel this bond and like you said, all of a sudden they’re all friends. Yeah. There’s just you can’t you can’t quantify it, qualify it. It’s just an energy just feeling.

Speaker3: [00:42:07] Yeah. It’s just a vibe.

Sharon Cline: [00:42:09] Well, I’m excited to see where you go.

Speaker3: [00:42:11] Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. Me too.

Sharon Cline: [00:42:15] It sounds to me in just a quick sum up, is that you’ve continued to go with your gut on what feels right.

Speaker3: [00:42:22] Trying to and what.

Sharon Cline: [00:42:23] Doesn’t is very valuable to right. But it’s led to you, led you to some really amazing experiences and tapping into an energy that brings you a lot of joy. And I think anything that has that joy to it means you’re on the right path 100%. So now that you know what that feels like, I guess, and you have known for so long, it’s nice to see as you go further in your career and you’re tapping into that more and more what the world has for you.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:42:48] Yeah, it’s just exploring. You know, I just read a book for any creative I highly recommend. It’s called The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. Very easy read. It’s like he breaks it up into like it’s like a page, a chapter, just it’s like a parable every day kind of thing. Um, I just completely lost why I brought that book up. What were we just talking about? Following joy. Oh, um. He compares decision making and how to how to actually I think I’m quoting the wrong book. I’m going to commit to it.

Sharon Cline: [00:43:21] It’s we’re going with that.

Speaker3: [00:43:22] Comparing like.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:43:23] Making essential decisions and knowing how to follow your gut more honestly is and I’ve been practicing it for a couple of weeks and it’s serving me pretty well. But it’s either a hell yes or a no. Never allow yourself to take something where it’s like, yeah, I guess, I guess that’ll work. Like that’s that’s a waste of your time. If it’s not absolutely, then it’s a no. Because if you if you accept opportunities that are kind of cool, it means you’re turning down a hell yes, that’s coming in the near future. And I can 100% attest to that in my past, where the I guess this works caused me to lose sight on all the hell yes as I could have had, and I’ve never once regretted taking something that was a hell yes for me in the moment. So I’m trying to practice that more, more often now. And it’s definitely it’s been a helpful exercise in trusting your trusting your gut.

Sharon Cline: [00:44:13] It’s well, it encourages you to always be in touch with your gut, right? Because oftentimes I can shut that off and just be like, well, I have to do this because. Right, right. I can tell you a thousand reasons why, right? But my gut is like, what? We’re not involved at all.

Speaker3: [00:44:28] Like, yeah.

Sharon Cline: [00:44:28] But well, that’s it’s intellectual. It’s I can justify. But if I’m in touch with my gut, that’s completely different. Right. And it’s actually I’m thinking about it now. It would be honoring myself so truly that imagining myself living that way, I like I have like an initial resistance. And it makes me wonder why why.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:44:51] The whole Art of War book is labeling that resistance. It’s such a fascinating read, and how that resistance is your your gut or your heart or whatever. I’m not sure exactly what term he uses, but it’s it’s you trying to protect yourself from the scary thought of pursuing that thing you want and not getting it. And that’s why all creatives deal with so much resistance is because we care about the outcome so much, we can’t handle the fact of we could fail at getting it, and.

Speaker3: [00:45:18] The disappointment will be too much.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:45:20] So we talk ourselves out of even trying, because if we never try for it, we can’t fail.

Sharon Cline: [00:45:24] Yeah, we’re not disappointed.

Speaker3: [00:45:25] Yeah.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:45:26] And that resistance becomes so convincing, right. You can easily just oh I couldn’t I couldn’t go write music for video games because that’s that market doesn’t even exist. I only have a sales degree. I’ve never done this before. They’re all valid reasons, which makes it even more difficult and scary to deal with. But it’s yet another like if you’re feeling that that’s the direction you lean into. You only feel that towards things that are really important to you. Wow, that’s such a good book.

Sharon Cline: [00:45:51] Because I just felt it right now. So I’m like, oh.

Speaker3: [00:45:53] So that’s that says a.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:45:54] Lot. That’s something for you to at least explore, you know, don’t dive head first into it, but read in a little bit more, you know?

Speaker3: [00:46:01] Well, I really.

Sharon Cline: [00:46:02] Appreciate you giving me some very valuable information on myself.

Speaker3: [00:46:06] I’ll be happy to share.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:46:07] I do a lot of reading and self exploration, so it’s nice to just talk to another human and not my own brain.

Speaker3: [00:46:12] Yeah.

Sharon Cline: [00:46:14] Yeah. I’m not always happy with my own brain is not always the happiest place, you know.

Speaker3: [00:46:18] Clearly creative minds.

Sharon Cline: [00:46:21] Well, how is there anything I can do that that helps you in this world?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:46:25] This has been an incredible experience in itself. Thank you so much for having me on. You know, I just keep doing what you’re doing. I think I think this show that you’ve built is really awesome to do exactly what we have both talked about wanting to do and inspiring other people who are afraid to take that leap to do so. So just keep doing what you’re doing.

Sharon Cline: [00:46:45] Thank you. And you too. I can’t wait to see where you go. I’d love to have you back on, like, maybe in six months when? Well, you’ll be too busy. You you’ll be moving to LA.

Speaker3: [00:46:55] I don’t know, I’m not going to LA. All right.

Sharon Cline: [00:46:57] Whatever, Canada, whatever happens.

Speaker3: [00:47:00] I’d be I’d be.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:47:00] Honored to be back on. This was a really, really cool experience for me.

Speaker3: [00:47:03] Well, how can.

Sharon Cline: [00:47:03] People thank you? How can people get in touch with you if they would like more information?

Zach Goodfellow: [00:47:07] So both my dad and Maya’s contact info is on W-w-w dot captain Hook Media.com I’m on pretty much all social medias. As for Captain Hook underscore Zac okay, I’m happy to, you know, happy to talk, reach out with whatever doesn’t matter me. But Captain Hook Media is probably going to be the easiest thing to find.

Sharon Cline: [00:47:29] Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Zach. It’s been such a pleasure to chat with you. Last time it was a very short one. We just talked about voiceover things, but getting to know what you’re involved in and also seeing how you use your creative side to bring so much joy to your life. And and like I said, being true to yourself is incredibly inspiring to me. And I think a lesson I needed to hear today. So I’m really grateful that you spent this time with me.

Speaker3: [00:47:53] Well, I’m grateful.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:47:54] That I said something useful.

Speaker3: [00:47:55] So thank you, thank you, thank you so much for.

Zach Goodfellow: [00:47:57] Having me on. This was really an honor. I really appreciate you inviting me.

Sharon Cline: [00:48:01] My pleasure. And thank you all again for listening to Fearless Formula on Business RadioX. And again, this is Sharon Cline reminding you that with knowledge and understanding, we can all have our own fearless formula. Have a great day!