Joe Cianciolo with Front Porch Advisers

Intro: [00:00:05] Coming to you live from the Business RadioX studio in Woodstock, Georgia. This is Fearless Formula with Sharon Cline.

[00:00:15] Welcome to Fearless Formula Friday on Business RadioX, where we talk about the ups and downs of the business world and offer words of wisdom for business success. Today is a very special show. I’m so excited because this will be our very first ever call in show and our special guest, I guess guest host, because you are hosting the show too, is Joe Cianciolo of Front Porch Advisors, and he has been on the show in the past. And it’s been those are like one of my favorite shows ever is when we get to talk about the different ways that our personalities lend to positives and some challenges that Joe can give you tips on how to overcome, right, Joe?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:00:56] Sure, I do my best. I do love it. And this is fun to be back here.

Sharon Cline: [00:01:00] Yay. Well, I would love to make this a regular thing. I just think that there are a lot of people out there who have these questions that maybe they have these challenges and they don’t really have the skill set or even know where to turn to to get someone to give them sort of the the, I don’t know, concise answer because you can get a lot of information out there on the Internet. How do you deal with a difficult person or how do you deal with the fact that I freeze or whatever it is, but to have someone give practical in the moment advice I think is really valuable. And I love too, that what you do, Joe, is so quantifiable because you can there is actual dollar amount differences from before you’ve worked with a person and then after. And I just love that because it’s almost like a challenge to get people to understand that this really does help business. You know, you think about it and you’re sure your personality will help in some way benefit, but when you actually can see a number, well, that’s the dream. Okay.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:02:01] Well, yes, I’m quantifying more than just numbers, but understanding sort of the the way in which your rhythms work in your life and the balance of enjoying what you do and being asked to do what you do well and being able to rely on the people around you to to provide the rest because some of them are better at that than you are. Is is amazing. In fact, I had a client today that that was kind of the takeaway was I think we’re finally finding a groove within our team where we are really good at thinking through all the details and they’re really good at dreaming up the future. And now I feel like we can do that without stepping on each other and it’s great. And he said, I realize now that a rewarding work environment is way more important to me than I knew before because I thought I was chasing money only. And yes, money is important when you’re in a job, but so too is being happy to be there. So.

Sharon Cline: [00:02:58] I love that. Also, I wanted to say that Anna Kawar of Boys and Girls Clubs of America is in the studio as well. She has been on my show a couple of times. She was the first person that I interviewed for Fearless Formula, and it was such a great interview. Set the bar so high, Joe, you’re there. You’re there, too, in the bar.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:03:12] She was on the first one with me.

Sharon Cline: [00:03:14] Oh, that’s right.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:03:15] If you recall.

Sharon Cline: [00:03:16] That’s so right. I forgot. Oh, it was glorious. It was a great show. I felt like what I really loved is that it was real time work together explaining what you do in a in a way that even Anna now gets to benefit from because she’s part of your program, which is awesome.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:03:34] Well, and that was that was us being bold. And today is another step for us being bold and realizing that if we don’t put ourselves out there and try something new, what, you know, we don’t know. So that day was Anna was a very, very gracious I don’t know. What do you call when she guinea pig?

Sharon Cline: [00:03:52] A subject guinea pig.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:03:54] I mean, you have to be sometimes in order to to to do what I do or to work with me, you have to be willing to dive deep. You have to be willing to be vulnerable. Yes. And that’s why we do it on our front porch. That’s why it’s Front porch Advisors is a very comforting environment where it is just us. It’s kind of like our porch is designed to hug you and then the trees are in front of you. It’s really nice. And that day showed me what was possible with somebody who was not a client who could ask a question, and we were able to have a whole show about it. Gotcha. Which was great. So I’m curious to see what else, what else can we do? How can we help people? Even the littlest bit, to maybe get them unstuck or help them realize that they keep making the same decisions and the pattern is the same and the outcomes are the same. And maybe they could change one thing and have a whole different.

Sharon Cline: [00:04:48] Do you feel like most this This is something I thought about because I was awake during the night. Sorry, I’m just admitting this now. I was awake during the night and I was thinking about this show and I was wondering how hard is it to convince people that they’re who they think that they are as a leader or a strategist, or the different ways that they lead through their company is actually not their natural default way. And that’s because I think people believe like, I’m the boss, I’m going to power through.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:05:16] Well, it’s often you often hear people say meet people where they are. And I think the way that I do it is I first allow people to understand kind of what they think is going on. And and I actually believe it. There’s nothing wrong with that. But then what I start to look for is I start to look for that one little nugget, a statement, a phrase, their nonverbal cues I look for, I response, I look for all of that. Usually it’s a relaxation in the face or one sentence that they sound very different. And once that happens, then I say, Is it possible that when you said that we tapped into this and then I get a chance to explain to them all that all of them, every set of wires, every pattern has greatness to it and has a purpose. And every single one also is awful if it’s under stress. So there’s no one that’s better than the other. And once you once I can do that, they all realize, Oh, there isn’t one that I have to aspire to. It’s let’s figure out which one is most comfortable, which one’s going to lighten me up, which one do I naturally resort to when I have to or when the chips are down? Or, you know, what’s the ones That just really makes me excited. And that’s where when we had originally talked, we had talked about the quiz and one of the quiz was like, if the house was on fire, what’s your first reaction? And the goal is to find that reaction that makes you feel like, Oh yeah, that’s totally me. Oh, you mean other people don’t do that? Like, No, of course not. Let’s figure out which one you do best and I’ll tell you which one I do best. And then we share that around and that that usually softens people to then realize, Oh, tell me more.

Sharon Cline: [00:06:56] Well, I like to is that you’re talking about stress like everyone is under stress. And I’m sure. Okay. Also, I would like to introduce Rachel Dudash, who is with Atlanta Dog Trainer. She was with me today. And I asked her if she wanted to be on the show. And she has seen me at some of my worst moments because she’s my daughter, knows me probably better than most. So anyhow, I was going to say, like the moments that I am under stress, I become a different person altogether. And I don’t love that about myself because oftentimes it’s when I’m if I’m under a significant stress where my personality changes, I actually need to be as grounded because there’s something big happening and I need to be as grounded in myself as I can be, but I’m not.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:07:38] Well, the problem is we put a lot of expectation and pressure on ourselves to be all things for in that situation. And when you use the term strategist, that’s what I naturally gravitate towards. And once I had that framework, once I had all those lenses that let me know, Oh, that’s why the harder. The thing is, and the more pressure I am under time, the better I am. If I’m fretting over something, it’s probably minor because that is a trigger for my defense system, which is analysis, paralysis. And that analysis paralysis can usually perseverate over something that’s really meaningless. But when the chips are down, I’m actually really good there. Whereas some people, it’s like, you know, let me step in today. There were people at IPL that went and helped out the shop that had storm damage and the the owner said, Who are you to Dan? And he’s like, Well, I heard that you needed help, so I’m here to help. You know, that’s what he does when when something is really down, he just shows up and starts doing or he brings like 15 people because he knows people. And so when when people understand you don’t I don’t have to be the one that makes all the calls, I can say, hey, let’s make sure that they have all the time, money, resources that they need, whereas somebody else is like, I’m going to provide lunch because that’s their natural care mechanism, Whereas somebody else is like, Oh, there’s a whole different way that we could do this. What if we completely redesigned the entire. It just depends on what’s needed in that moment. My job is to first help people figure out what that looks like, and then we start practicing it to say, How do you make it most effective for the situation at hand? Because some people who are outside the box thinkers don’t always apply that to the right spot. And that’s what we do.

Sharon Cline: [00:09:23] What I like to is, is actually Anna is the kind of it’s okay if I speak for you, the kind of person that that says, I was like, I’m going to do this call in show. And she’s like And she’s like, How are you going to do it? And I’m like, I don’t know. So I just told her my basic idea. But she’s so good at thinking about the most effective way, and she’s like, You’ve got two different options. And I was like, What are they? And then she explained it to me and I’m like, I don’t even know why I even think of that. So I love that it takes a village. It takes a village to make things work. But like I next time we do the call in show, I’ll be so prepared because of someone like Anna who can think different than me and I value it. I appreciate it. I actually need it.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:10:02] Well, and I want I mean, we’re a very small business, obviously, and this town is full of small business and a bunch of entrepreneurs want to be entrepreneurs, side hustlers and all that. And that culture has bred a misconception that you can do and be all things. And what we want to say is, no, let’s lead from where you are naturally best. And then even if you can’t hire people full time to come with you, you need to know what you’re asking them for and you need to know who those people are. So the kind of people that I need are the people who are outside the box because I’m the one that will have a spreadsheet for everything. I’m the one that makes sure that we say every mistake we’ve ever made. I have a catalog in my brain and how not to do that again. And so if I can help even a solo entrepreneur or even want to call it to realize, okay, stop trying to spend your whole day doing racking your brain for every piece, let’s start with the ones that you can do, and then we’ll intentionally go and find those who bring the other pieces to it. And I don’t know. That’s why it’s best when people ask questions, because I can’t tell you the answer until I know what you really are bringing.

Sharon Cline: [00:11:10] I wanted to ask you just as a side question. There she goes. I said, my brain, this is my brain. Please. So when you’re talking about like someone who’s dating, I think about this a lot because there are people where you sort of see them as a couple and you’re like, interesting. You would never put them together or whatever. And so do you find in your line of work that you can see the tendencies of one person and the tendencies of another person and that they would work well together or not work well together?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:11:40] Absolutely. And it’s because a lot of communication actually boils communication and expectations boils down in a relationship that’s kind of key. And when I see patterns and tendencies, I see, oh my gosh, the first thing that we need to look at is your your closest relationships. And people who are wired the same tend to relate to each other very well. They don’t even have to communicate as much because they kind of already see how each other thinks. However, in a relationship, there’s a blind spot there because you both are going to have the same blind spot, whereas you could date somebody who is completely polar opposite to you, completely different wiring. And that creates in and of itself the potential for disaster or if healthy on both sides can can solve bigger problems. And that that is a very common thing for me, especially in expectations wiring because people who are out or motivated need somebody on the outside. And when two of those people get together and often get married, which I know some very close to my family, neither of them are the ones that set the expectation they’re waiting for the other and that can cause a strain. Now, I do have, interestingly enough, a set of clients that are a husband and wife couple, and they are they do struggle with the expectations. And so they actually come to me. To help them set those expectations.

Sharon Cline: [00:12:59] So if you had to outer motivated people. So like, that’s me, I’m an obliger. I need to know that you’re counting on me to do something. I will do it. I will not let you down, but I will let myself down all the time because I’m in charge of me and I can make that decision if I want to or not. So I think it’s interesting. If you had to outwardly validated people or motivated people, can they motivate each other? You know what I mean? Like, can they.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:13:26] They need somebody on the outside to help. That’s why I like I said about that, that couple. Yeah. That I work with, they come to me just every once in a while to kind of make sure that some of that is planned out and then they aren’t expected to do it all for themselves. Like if, for example, a lot of times the Obligers will try to do it too hard because they’re thinking that they’re they’re helping the other. And so what they do is then they come to me and they’re like, These are the things that we’ve been saying we’re doing. We’re not doing them. I’m like, All right, you need to get this done by this time. This time this is everything you brought to me. Let me hold you accountable. You just know that I’m I’m going to check in at each of these points, and you both will be fine. And they don’t need me much. I’m not a part of the relationship other than the fact that I’m helping them in an area that they now know is not strong for them. And that’s fine. Like there’s nothing wrong with that.

Sharon Cline: [00:14:17] But those are the key words right there is because if there’s nothing wrong with that, takes all that judgment out of it.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:14:24] It also doesn’t take away from the fact that a relationship can work. But you have to fully like if you are the same patterns, but you have to do is be very, very understanding so that you yourself can stay grounded in that and not thrust that off onto the other person. And that is very, very easy to do and hard.

Sharon Cline: [00:14:44] Well, we have our very first caller. This is Tricia and she has a question for you. Joe.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:14:51] Hi, Tricia.

Tricia: [00:14:52] Hey, Joe. How are you?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:14:52] I’m good. How are you?

Tricia: [00:14:54] Wonderful. Thank you for asking. So I’m a realtor and I deal with a lot of emotions. I was wondering, how do I protect my own energy so that I’m not as affected by other people’s energy?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:15:07] Hmm. That is a really, really good question. First, in your industry, there are it’s nothing but people and there’s a lot of expectation of sort of filling a dynamic for the kind of person that you have to be for your clients. What I recommend is that you have to fully understand what it is that you bring to the real estate table. I think I think one of the it’s interesting because my mom actually got her real estate license, which is really, really strange. Back in the day, I never thought she would because she is the opposite of what the realtors in my town grew up with. She was not cutthroat. She was very much strategic in her thinking. She was very bold, but she was not willing to compromise on, you know, how sometimes I mean, there can be a lot of competition in. And what she did was she really kind of just sort of settled herself into that identity. And then those customers kind of shared that. And that’s that’s the practice that she built. All of her clients came to her because that’s what she brought. So instead of trying to be loud or trying to, you know, be very entertaining, I mean, that was the thing. I of course, I would want to ask you more questions like what is what is it about real estate that really excites you? What’s what’s your favorite part of the job?

Tricia: [00:16:32] That’s a great question. There’s a few, actually that really excite me. Obviously. Well, for me, first time homebuyers, they’re typically younger. They’re excited. And with that being said, I need to educate them more. And I do love educating people on the different transactions, the different needs, their wants. Yeah. So definitely first time homebuyers are my favorite.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:17:01] Is it because they’re asking you for your advice or is it because you feel like it’s a way to care for them?

Tricia: [00:17:11] You know, I haven’t really thought about that. Well, a little bit of both. Yeah. I definitely want to give them my input. I’m a little more blunt, a little more honest. But then again, I want to educate. That’s the biggest thing for me is just education, educating people on their tools that we have. Their needs specifically, just different things that they don’t think about because they’re not in this field.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:17:36] Well, and that’s I like that because what you’re what you’re talking about in terms of so for me, I’m a strategist, which means that I, I love to give my opinion. I’m an advisor, but it only works when they ask it of me. And that’s kind of where I, you know, get I kind of puff up my chest and get really excited and say, Oh, let me help you with your spreadsheet. And so for you, with a new homebuyer, if you start looking at what they receive best in terms of your the way that you communicate with them, look for those verbal nonverbal cues like I was talking about. If you see them light up because they’re like, Oh, this is so overwhelming. He said, Don’t worry, I got you. If you see them sort of relaxed, then that’s where you’re going to know what it is that you bring to them more than knowledge. And so that’s the thing. You may be an expert in your field, but you want to start to become very aware of what they need, not necessarily in a home or even within the industry, but in that moment. Because like we talked about, stress is everybody experiences stress and looking for a house as a young person or a new homebuyer is very stressful. And so some of them are going to be looking for do they need you to be Well, first we have to figure out which one you are. But do they need somebody that’s going to be really aggressive or do they need somebody that’s going to say, hey, you know what, I’m willing to take a little extra time because I really care about making sure you have all the knowledge. Once you make it more about, I don’t know, the proverbial them and what they’re receiving, then all of a sudden they will continue to stay loyal to you just because of the way that you’re making them feel, not even anything to do with the transaction.

Tricia: [00:19:15] Very true.

Sharon Cline: [00:19:17] Yeah, I think that’s amazing when you think about the fact that even though you’re providing them this service to buy this house, what they’re downloading is the energy of how you’re making them feel in the process. So it’s not even, yes, I got this house with Tricia because someone who’s not a good salesperson could probably sell you a house or not a good realtor, very effective, can still get you a house. But the experience being so like, I guess, joyful and peaceful and grounded, that is something that they would remember. Is that right?

Tricia: [00:19:47] Oh, yeah, I would remember that.

Tricia: [00:19:49] But I will say that this process is stressful just in general. It’s the biggest expense they’ll ever make. And money changes people. It just. It just does. Well, I need to find out what their personality is. Are they more factual or are they more, you know, like an engineer is different than a sales person or whatever the case may be. I need to find out their personality and how they receive the information.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:20:14] Absolutely. That’s one of the first things that I do with all of my clients is, is, hey, we have to study the client first, and then we look at all of your clients to see who are the ones that you enjoy working with the most so that we can understand how those patterns come out naturally. What you want to be able to do is love getting up and doing what you do within your job. A lot of people define themselves by their job and I say, No, what is it that you bring to the job? Because that’s what’s going to keep you excited. Otherwise you’re going to get stuck in a stress loop of, Oh my gosh, I got to make this work. There’s another tool set that I have. This is going to happen a lot if we do these shows is I have another tool set where we look at sort of people’s driving motivators behind what is most important to them. And yes, money is a big deal. It tends to be people’s it gets the most of people’s attention. But once you realize that there’s more to driving their life than just money, is the house just a financial burden for them? Does it solve a geography problem for them? Does it allow them closer access to the people that make them excited once they can? I mean, once you understand it, you can start to see what it is that that house is really solving for them. And at that point, if money isn’t their top driver, then you can help them make a better decision on what they’re looking for, where they’re looking for, and what that long term commitment is going to be. Because when you’re buying a house, you’re buying more than just that moment. And so I would use that tool as well with your your clients to say, okay, let’s let’s put them in order of priority. And once that’s the case, I can help you better.

Tricia: [00:21:52] That is very true. I do ask them what their specific needs are or their priorities. If they need a big backyard for a dog or they need it fenced or location for commuting to work, and have they driven that road during rush hour traffic? Like there’s so many different things that we need to find out to better serve them.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:22:12] Yeah, and it’s funny because we’ve all been programed by watching anybody who’s watched a show on like HGTV or something to how you’re supposed to look for a house. And we’ve been preprogramed to answer those questions that you’re saying. And I’m saying we got to figure out and this is not normal for a lot of people, but you put them into that future scenario of what’s the stress trigger for you? Is it is it the garage situation? Is it the fact that what is ideal for you is a lot of trees and there’s no trees here? Or is it that you have been putting off for a long time that you want to go hiking on weekends? But this is not the right ideal location for you to easily access that? Are you the type of person that’s going to get annoyed by the people in traffic? If that’s the case, let’s look let’s look at that so that you know exactly what you’re buying before. And that is something that, you know, in real estate you’re selling the house. We know that. And it’s a pretty big transaction. But when you show them that you actually care about how they’re going to live in it for longer and more than the traditional questions, then they start to ask you, oh, well, do you know anything like blah, blah, blah. And that’s where you get to bring that extra that you probably enjoy. And you’ve probably been cataloging for a while.

Tricia: [00:23:26] I actually do enjoy it. I truly do enjoy it.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:23:29] And that’s what we want. We want you to spend the majority of your time with your clients doing what you enjoy about it, and only the parts that you don’t enjoy. They are still important, but they don’t need to take as much time and focus from you. And if they start to pull you back, they’re going to you’re going to lose some of that natural influence with them. And as I tell I mean, Anna, we were talking about this earlier when people embrace their natural tendencies and become grounded in it, it becomes gravitational. And people all of a sudden just want to be around you and they want to use your services just because it’s easier. They don’t feel like they’re having to solve you. If you can be comfortable in your skin, then they already just know it and they don’t have too many other questions.

Sharon Cline: [00:24:14] So you mean it’s like an energy that they can pick up on? Is that what you mean?

Tricia: [00:24:17] Absolutely. Would it be like.

Speaker5: [00:24:18] Law of Attraction? That is.

Tricia: [00:24:20] Fascinating.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:24:20] Yeah, it can be. Yeah. And and the thing is, especially in real estate, because I actually did get a real estate license for a hot minute. I never sold anything, but it’s because I had this weird preconceived notion of like, okay, if you just follow the checklist that the brokers are all telling you and all this kind of stuff. And the thing was, is that was not me at all. So my the thing that I bring to any job I’ve ever had is why I have the current job that I have, which is all these components of my natural tendencies for good. I get to use about 70 to 80% of my time and that I enjoy. In fact, it makes me want to gather more like when I’m when I’m working out, I’m actually listening to podcasts to continue to find more data. Why? Because I just think it’s fascinating and it gives me energy. So when that happens, the people can feel that, but they can also feel when you’re trying too hard. And I’m sure in your industry you’ve come across other agents who are very intense and you can tell that it’s just not real, but they’re trying their hardest. And I feel bad because unfortunately they could be amazing if they stopped being a shell of what they think is supposed to be the realtor and be what they are in real estate.

Tricia: [00:25:32] Exactly. It can come over as being overbearing or aggressive.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:25:37] And that’s not really who they are. It’s just who they think they need to be. And that to me, that’s also a sign of stress. So.

Tricia: [00:25:45] Very true. Oh, my.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:25:45] Gosh. Tricia, I’d love to have more conversations with you.

Tricia: [00:25:47] I know.

Sharon Cline: [00:25:48] This is so fun. Amen. Thank you, Tricia, so much for calling because this is you’re our first call. And, you know, we’re kind of coming at Joe with with like, you never know what kind of question is going to come out. So this was really fun to see. You have all this information in your head there, Joe, And it just kind of all was perfect for Tricia’s answer.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:26:05] Yeah, And it’s not something that you can study to use to manipulate people. It’s one of those things where you become super curious about them and it automatically builds trust and influence.

Tricia: [00:26:18] Definitely you’re genuine and you’re building that rapport.

Tricia: [00:26:20] Absolutely perfect.

Tricia: [00:26:22] Thank you so.

Tricia: [00:26:23] Much.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:26:23] Thank you. We appreciate.

Sharon Cline: [00:26:24] You. Tricia, thank you so much. We’re going to do another call in show at some point, and I’ll let you know when that happens. And I would love to have you call again.

Tricia: [00:26:32] Wonderful.

Tricia: [00:26:33] Y’all take care.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:26:33] Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye.

Sharon Cline: [00:26:36] How did that feel?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:26:37] It was good.

Sharon Cline: [00:26:38] Good. Because I love it.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:26:39] Because it’s small. Like you saw me. And this is not a video show. But what happens is, is people we start going and it’s like, I have all these tools that I want to give them, so I have to get used to not less is more, right?

Speaker5: [00:26:55] I dial it back.

Sharon Cline: [00:26:56] Well, but there are some people that have sort of a natural understanding of what you’re talking about. And then there are some people who don’t. But it sounded like she understood. Tricia understood pretty well the different dynamics that go into either being too much or too aggressive or too insistent on having it their way. Like I can imagine a real tour, not really listening to what someone else is saying, what they really want.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:27:20] Well, the stereotype in the real estate world is that you have to be busy all the time and that you’re on call all the time, which that’s how that industry works. But you can get lost in that. And that’s what when she was telling me, like, I want to know about the backyard, I’m like, I’ve heard that question before. We have. And they’re not. They’re definitely important questions, but they’re they’re on the top level. And what we want is what are the 2 or 3 things that this house is going to solve their pain. And then you can say, oh, okay, that house is great, but this is not the one based on what you’re telling me. I think you might want something like this and then you show it to them and you explain to them why. And they’re like, I would have never even thought of that. What kind of person wants a real estate agent that does that? A lot of people.

Sharon Cline: [00:28:04] I love that you’re talking about solving their pain because a lot of people don’t even put that verbiage associated with like, I need to have a backyard or something like that, you know? I like that you’re talking about relieving a burden, a pain. You’re solving a problem, and then having to be able to listen to what they’re saying and then translate it to what you think that they really would want. But what they’re saying is something different. But you know what they really want. And then having the skills to say it in a way they receive it. Jesus. Well, I just said Jesus on the air.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:28:35] That was one of the things that, you know, I wish I could see her face to face because I would be looking for her facial response to see what was clicking with her. And that’s the only downside of the radio is I’m listening only is she is an individual. She’s Tricia. But there’s like a gazillion real estate agents. But she is the only Tricia, whatever her name might be. And she only brings her own wiring, her own experience, all those things to.

Speaker5: [00:29:02] It, a uniqueness.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:29:03] And she doesn’t need to be any more than that. She just needs to be very comfortable being that. And at that point then and, and the thing I told her about her clients, if she knows that for her, then she’ll understand what her own motivation is there, too, because it’s it’s in business. All of us are thinking, how do we make money? How do we make money? Money is my fourth of five drivers. It is important and I have to make time for it. But if my decisions are driven by money or transaction, I’m already off my game and it takes some of that power away.

Sharon Cline: [00:29:35] I get that. And I think what’s interesting is money is like my fourth or fifth driver as well, but it’s like it’s what all business is pretty much motivated by. So you’re dealing with people whose goals are to make profit all the time. And so one of the things I love about Fearless Formula is I get to ask questions about how do you feel about that? Because if we’re talking profit and things like that, I’m like, Oh, interesting. I don’t know. But like, tell me about how you feel about it.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:30:03] Well, it’s interesting because what you said at the beginning, I if I can combine my purpose, which is my number one. Yes. And the money can come at an allowing me to do my purpose, that I actually have been more successful doing it that way than the other way around. So instead of pushing right, I’m doing this is what I bring. And if I’m not, I’m not I’m not great if I’m not using my purpose. Right.

Sharon Cline: [00:30:27] Well, we have another caller. This is Marie and Marie. You are on the air with Joe.

Marie: [00:30:34] Hi. Hi.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:30:36] I’m very excited and nervous. What do you got?

Marie: [00:30:40] All right.

Marie: [00:30:41] Well, I am currently a store manager at a salon, and I am actually looking to hire a couple people to work for me. So I’m very curious as to what kind of things I should be considering. What are some key aspects I need to look for in terms of what would really benefit me and and the best kind of candidate for the for the job.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:31:06] Oh, I love strategic hiring. We’ve been we have been doing a lot of that lately because it is so specific to you. If you’re the manager, we need to know what kind of a manager you are. So when you’re looking for people, you need to kind of understand. Do you have a management style that is very comfortable for you?

Marie: [00:31:28] Yes.

Marie: [00:31:30] I so I like to be very, very hands on. I’m very educational.

Marie: [00:31:36] That’s oriented. Everything is like, you know, I am only as strong as my weakest employee. So I like making sure that we are all on the same page and we’ve got good incentives. And, you know, I want I want them to be just as as confident and strong as I am. So we’re all like, you know, I don’t think there’s like a hierarchy or anything like that in terms of success. I want everyone to be just as successful. It’s a plateau. Like there’s room for everybody here, you know what I mean?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:32:08] Okay, so you like harmony and and drive, which is good. So what you want to look for when you’re interviewing people is you need to understand when have they been in a situation where they were working for somebody that was all about making sure everybody felt in harmony. And you need to figure out whether or not that resonates with them. A lot of times in an interview, people it’s funny, there’s you can find lists of questions to do in an interview, and that’s not what I do at all. I the resume is always what people want it to be. What you want to know is how can they interact with you if you’re going to be managing and leading them. You need to know are they the type of people that need to do list and then they need the outer accountability that you can then check on them and make sure they’re doing it? Or are they the type of person that needs to be left alone? Like, I got this, just trust me. And then you need to know which one of those is comfortable for you. And since you’re in a salon, I don’t know what specific positions you’re looking for, but when you’re hiring somebody, you if you like that harmony and you want them to see that there’s potential for them to do well there, you need to kind of understand what the job looks like three weeks to six months from now for them. Is it satisfying? Like, are they the type of people that do really well with day to day tasks or are they dreamers that are outside the box saying, Oh, what if we could do it this way one day? Which one drives you crazy?

Marie: [00:33:35] Right. Right. Well, I you know, it’s. There’s a there’s a certain kind of person that we need people like we need people, people. We need the kind of people that are, you know, open to ask questions that are open to interact with customers and clients that aren’t, you know, aren’t very chatty, but people that can bring other people out of their own shell and be willing to, you know, go out of their way to interact with somebody that they’ve never, you know, never met before. And to be that outgoing person and to yeah, you’re absolutely right to take, you know, think outside of the box. You know, we’ve got shelves of products that, you know, people are like, okay, well, what if we organize them this way? Maybe more people will be interested as opposed to like, okay, I’ll just dust around these, you know, every single day and not think about it, you know what I mean?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:34:35] And I can hear it like I have 40 things going through my head, but one, when people go to the salon, they need somebody. Often, if I’m hearing this correctly, they want somebody that can care for them and listen to them. And so when you’re interviewing someone, you want to know, are they too chatty in the interview? Are they too opinionated in the interview? If so, you have to figure out whether or not that fits with what kind of customers you have, which is really important because then you’re giving this new person that comes in to work for you an opportunity to care. And that’s part of their job. And when you tell people who are naturally wired to care that that’s part of their job, they’re going to light up. Then if you do like the outside the box thinkers, there’s another wire. There’s either dreamers or believers. One’s more excitement and one’s more ideas outside the box. It depends on who your current staff is. But my suggestion is that you want to make sure that it covers the entire range of of, of all the personalities so that when you have a customer come in who needs somebody, that you see a customer that doesn’t necessarily have a whole lot of self confidence and self-belief if you need to put them with a Sharon Because Sharon is a natural believer, right? Sharon, the host of this show because she cares so much and she is so excited when she sees somebody new that she could possibly pull that excitement out of. And so there are assessments that people can take online for free. But you have to understand which ones excite you and then which one you need in the seat before before you hire them.

Marie: [00:36:10] That’s a really good point because there are certain kind of person that, you know, maybe they they have more of a creative personality. And then there are people who have more of a creative mind and they’re two different things, right?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:36:22] Yes. Oh, my gosh. Thank you. That is phenomenal that you know that. And I am a strategist, which means I do I the counter to me is the dreamer who’s completely wild, off the cuff in the clouds. I don’t get that. So if you put me in that seat, it would stress me out. But if you put someone in the seat that’s like, Oh, I’ve been doing this for 40 years, I have got everything mapped out in my head. I know exactly what you need that’s going to make me feel more trusting. So you want to make sure that your customers are all going to be able to have an opportunity to fit with that one person, whether it be a stylist or whatever, to to satisfy that need. That automatically builds influence, trust and comfort right then and there.

Marie: [00:37:06] Absolutely. No, I agree because when your client has confidence, then they’re confident buyer and then they have the, you know, the trust to come back to know that, okay, this person has my best interest at heart. And that’s really what we’re trying to accomplish is like, hey, you know, we want to me as a, you know, an interviewer, I want to make sure like I can create a, you know, a fake scenario ahead and ahead of time and, you know, lay it out. So, okay, so this person, you know, has never been to the salon before. Like, what’s the first thing you you know, you want to do when they walk in? Do you want to introduce yourself? Do you want to ask them questions? Do you want to show them around? Like what? What’s your best way to, you know, create that foundation of a relationship? Because, you know, every kind of relationship is, you know, it’s all based on that first, first few moments that really sets the tone for everything. So it’s you know, it’ll be interesting to see what kinds of answers we’ve got.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:38:07] Yes. Can I give you one other piece of advice?

Marie: [00:38:09] Yes.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:38:10] Please make sure that they understand that there’s no right answer there, because the problem is, is in an interview, they’re going to want to give you the answer that they think you want to hear. And what you’re saying is, oh, we have all kinds of customers that come in here. And what we’re looking for is to make sure that we allow our staff to fully understand that who they are is celebrated by us and our customers. And so each customer is going to need something. So now that I tell you that, now tell me which one you would do, because then you take that sort of expectation off of them to have to be perfect.

Marie: [00:38:43] Right, Exactly. Yeah. I don’t want people to come in and automatically feel defeated like they’re going to get something wrong or that I’m going to be like, you know, about something because that’s not necessarily true. So I actually really love that. Thank you.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:38:56] Of course.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:38:57] Oh, my gosh. We could go for hours, but we won’t.

Marie: [00:39:02] That’s the B standing next to me when I go through this. That sounds amazing.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:39:06] That’s one of my favorite things. I love to sit in on interviews, but there are ways where we sit here and we we help you kind of map that out. That’s why that’s one of our offerings for the business. But it’s so interesting when you can disarm the interviewee. Most people don’t do that. So when you have somebody come in and you realize what we’re looking for is we want to make sure that we understand what a real opportunity for you is and then we can tell you what the opportunity here is. And then it’s not emotional as to whether or not they don’t fit. It’s like, oh my gosh, you’re awesome. And when we have a spot for that, we will call you. But right now what we need is this. And what we don’t want to do is force fit you to work with this set of customers that’s going to drive you crazy. So then it’s not that personal, like you weren’t good enough. It’s no, that’s just not the right opportunity right now.

Marie: [00:39:56] No, that’s actually so true because when I was looking for a job myself, you know, one of my employers actually outright said like, hey, you know, this is our, this is what, this is the box. We’re hoping to have someone fit here and you know, just because you’re the wrong shape doesn’t mean you’re, you know, the wrong shape for another box. So, like, don’t get disheartened. You know, everybody has their own talents and skills. So it’s just a matter of, you know, finding that perfect match. It’s kind of like dating in a way, you know?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:40:27] Well, and if you like, in educating people, what you end up being able to do is you can do that Even within the interview, you’re like, oh my gosh, you you need an opportunity that’s going to allow you to shine like this all the time, or at least the majority of the time. So as you continue looking, make sure that you interview them to see that that’s the right opportunity, because the worst thing is to get hired someone somewhere and realize in two weeks that that was not at all what they were looking for. And so you can you can impart that to anybody you interview if they’re receptive. And if they’re not, you’re not going to want to hire them anyway. But if they are, you get to be the educator that you love to be, even if you can’t hire them. And that will also continue to build that trust where people will always say, Wow, that was really enjoyable. Even though I didn’t get the job, I would go back and look again if it became available, right?

Sharon Cline: [00:41:15] Like that was really kind of that employer to say, Listen, just because you don’t fit this box does not mean that you are not amazing somewhere else. Like, I don’t know, many bosses or hiring people who would be so kind. I mean, oftentimes it’s just. No, we went we went with someone else.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:41:30] Well, there’s yeah, there’s always that standard response of, no, this isn’t the right fit and mine is. No, I want to see that you light up like you did when we had that part of the interview, because I usually when we get to the levels of interview that I do, I usually get them to tell me their worst work scenarios, the worst, most stressful things, the people that drove them the most crazy versus the times where we’re looking for them to light up. And once I find that, I say, okay, no, you deserve to be in a situation where you can shine. And I don’t have that for you right now, but I want to make sure you do. And if I can make any recommendations to other people in the industry, I’m happy to do that. And even doing that, not only does it help that person, but it gives you credibility in the industry because people are like, why are you doing that to competition? No, it’s we all deserve to have opportunities for people that they can do well in.

Marie: [00:42:20] Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That’s what I mean. Like there is room for everybody on this planet to be successful here. It’s just a matter of finding your, you know, your absolute strength that you can just display for the world and get that get that credibility and that validation and get paid basically for for, you know, all those skills that you developed over time. And, you know, I want when I’m hiring somebody, I’m, you know, I’m a little nervous to, you know, decipher between person to person, as you know, which would be best which one wouldn’t be. Because I know there’s a lot of different personalities out there. So, you know, I guess I, I guess it’s just one of those you got to see as you go type situations because you never know.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:43:11] The more you know yourself and understand how that works for you, the easier it will be. So you first have to understand how that plays out for you. And I will say that your voice has changed from the time you started to the time you’re that we’re sort of getting to the end of this part. And because I feel like your confidence is going up, your excitement is going up, and the reality behind it is more fun than a daunting task.

Sharon Cline: [00:43:35] Aww, Joe. Look what you just did. It’s true.

Marie: [00:43:38] Validating that person is, you know, it really just it makes people feel like they, you know, they’re doing something right. And even if it, you know, say this path wasn’t your path, but, hey, like you’re you’re just, you know, every all knowledge is good.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:43:53] Amen. Hey.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:43:54] Thank you so much.

Sharon Cline: [00:43:56] Marie, thank you so much for calling in. I really appreciate it. And Joe, that was really great advice and I love that you could tell that with Marie she was able to have a sense of maybe I don’t even know if it’s control, but maybe discernment of what it would be like, what to look for, because I’ve never hired anybody. I wouldn’t know what to look for. But if I had some skills and some thoughts behind it, then it just like you said, it doesn’t seem so scary. It seems more fun.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:44:18] She’s more comfortable and curious.

Marie: [00:44:20] I have a whole little list of notes here that I took from the conversation, so I’m I’m so excited to implement them.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:44:26] Yay. I can’t wait to hear it. Tell us about it. Call back and tell us.

Sharon Cline: [00:44:29] Yeah, let us know. We’ll do another show and I’ll message you about it and then you can be back on and see Am on it.

Marie: [00:44:35] Thank you.

Sharon Cline: [00:44:35] Guys. You’re welcome. Thank you, Marie. Bye bye. How did that feel, Joe? That was fun.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:44:41] It was fun. Again.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:44:42] I love seeing you right next to me. Right across from me.

Sharon Cline: [00:44:45] Because he’s talking about Anna.

Sharon Cline: [00:44:47] That’s okay. What thoughts do you have for Anna? I’m hoping we have one more call, but it may not pan out. So let’s talk amongst ourselves. You, Rachel. I’d like to hear your your information.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:44:57] What have you gathered from everything thatBecause we’ve had two calls with a lot of information in a short amount of time.

Sharon Cline: [00:45:03] Yeah, Rachel,

Rachel Dudash: [00:45:03] Absolutely.

Rachel Dudash: [00:45:04] I think just overall, like uniqueness plays such a big part in, like, I don’t know, feeling confident in yourself and knowing like, everyone is so unique and you don’t have to be one thing or another. And I think for me personally, like something that kind of hits home is like in the dog training industry. Like there is a stereotype of having to be this very almost I don’t want to say bossy because it’s not like a bossy position like that has a negative connotation. But if you think of someone very strong and big and huge and like no one can alpha, no one can see me right now except for you guys, but I am a five foot three smaller woman and I have this very light voice. And so I think a lot of people tend to like, underestimate me in that way and kind of put me in a box before they even talk to me or get to know me. And so it has made me question my own self and like comparatively to other people, like, oh my goodness, I see someone else doing this way. Should I change to be like that? But that doesn’t feel natural to me. So when you’re talking about being natural, I have to remind myself, okay, but my strength is also this, and that’s something that this person might not have and might not be natural to them. So I think we all got to understand our weaknesses, one which does take a lot of looking inward, and that’s where a lot of shame kind of comes into play because I think we want to tend to ignore that part of ourselves. Like, you know, I’m not this way or No, I don’t do that. Or you don’t even get to the point where you even look. I tend to look away and I think a lot of people do that. You have thoughts? I can see them.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:46:52] I do. I do.

Sharon Cline: [00:46:53] Go ahead. Bring what are your thoughts.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:46:55] When you talk about being an alpha and you talk about animals.

Rachel Dudash: [00:46:57] Absolutely.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:46:58] Animals. They don’t have the same communication skills that we do. They feel. Yes. So an animal can tell when you’re nervous, an animal can tell when you’re comfortable, that natural comfort you can’t fake You either are or you’re not. And so quiet confidence, whatever people want to call that is. It’s one of those things when you accept who you are and are very comfortable, that doesn’t mean you have to be loud about it. It just means you have to be really grounded in it. That’s why I say it’s gravitational. You probably experienced that with dogs.

Rachel Dudash: [00:47:29] So I actually have made a motto for myself. And because I wanted to, I truly wanted to look into why did I feel this way? Or like, how can I kind of make myself feel a little bit more powerful in a way. But my motto is, I am fair, but I’m kind and and I am also strong. So I have all these three qualities that kind of balance. You know, I’m strong, but I’m fair. I’m not going to, you know, make this horrible experience because it benefits me or vice versa. And then I’m kind. I never want to lose that part of myself that is empathetic. And I don’t want to lose that part of myself that is patient and patience is huge.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:48:20] Well, and when you look at the statistics for the people who want statistics behind it, caretakers who are kind and caring by nature, they tend to be reserved a little bit in terms of they’re not the first to speak out. They tend to think that their ideas aren’t as important as others speak for over 40% of the population. And when you look at that from a customer base, you’re going to come into contact with more caretakers than you are anybody else. And when you are that that as I said earlier, when you meet somebody who has the same wiring as you, it’s a natural fit in communication. There’s not a lot of extra that has to go in. The problem is, is sometimes when you have a caretaker customer who’s stressed out, you may misunderstand that and think that there’s something they’re not. And so when you look at it from the curiosity of like, Oh, what if they’re just stressed out? I got you. I am, I am kind, I am fair and I’m strong and I kind of want you to put it on a tattoo right here.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:49:17] Because you can ask yourself every decision that you make. Was it fair? Was it kind? Was it strong? And the answer is got to be yes for you. And people will respect that because it’s very simple. Not easy. Simple.

Rachel Dudash: [00:49:30] It’s not easy.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:49:31] It’s simple.

Rachel Dudash: [00:49:31] Yeah.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:49:32] And that and people respect that. But it also you have to remember that all the animals are your they’re your thermometer, I guess because they feel barometer. They can sense that tension. They can sense stress. That’s why I was never good with dogs, because I’m too uptight. There’s all these things that could go wrong and dogs are like, what? They just want to play. And and and that’s why I think you could take a lot from that. It helped me understand my kids a little when we took care of horses because one is naturally just a caretaker and willing to just go with the flow and the horse was moving right with it. And the other one’s like uptight, like me, like.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:50:15] If I hold the bowl. They’re not they’re not letting me. Put the bowl down. Not natural.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:50:19] And as a result like I have to, then that gives me the opportunity to practice. And for you, if you find that comfort and confidence in that, then you will be strong without having to be perceived as strong. People will just feel it.

Rachel Dudash: [00:50:32] Absolutely. I think the more that I talk to people and the more I get, they get to know me. It’s almost like I just don’t even have a title anymore. I’m just me and I.

Sharon Cline: [00:50:45] Don’t put his hands in the air. I’m just.

Rachel Dudash: [00:50:47] Me. And you did.

Sharon Cline: [00:50:48] A fist bump or something.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:50:50] Well, titles get in the way. Expectations. It comes to expectations, both inner and outer. Are you inner driven or outer driven?

Rachel Dudash: [00:50:58] Um. What a great question. I, I guess I’ve never thought about it before.

Sharon Cline: [00:51:05] So if you make yourself obligated to do something to someone else, are you more like, yes, I’m going to do that, or do you have your own sense of.

Rachel Dudash: [00:51:12] So I would say I’m outer driven because I feel almost like a not like a pressure. But I, I have a standard for myself that I want to accomplish, like a task or like I want to make this a certain thing for someone because they they need that. And I kind of want to I want to be that for them. And if I can’t be, I’ll go to someone else and ask them to help.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:51:35] But then there are I believe this is weird out there. I believe that animals all have different expectations. Wirings too.

Rachel Dudash: [00:51:44] Absolutely.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:51:45] I think some are very much inner driven and they’re not very good, but they need it to make sense. Like me, I’m a questioner. It needs to make sense to me. So if you give the those dogs that are very much not obliging, a very strict set of boundaries where they understand and it’s the same all the time, they need the routine, the ritual safety. Yeah, yeah, that’s what makes sense to them. Whereas other dogs are just like, whatever, okay. You know, and they’re the natural. Like, I wonder. Now this makes me curious. I wonder with therapy dogs, if it’s the outer accountable that they are, they need those people to rely on them and they’re naturally good at that. They just have to be trained how to use it.

Rachel Dudash: [00:52:23] Well, absolutely.

Sharon Cline: [00:52:25] Wow, that’s so fascinating. I never really thought about that because I met a therapy dog this past weekend. I was out and it was a little dachshund, and I was like, Can I touch your little doggy? Had a vest on, The little dog did. And he said, the owner said, Let me sit down, because if I’m standing, this dog knows that that they’re on. But if I’m sitting, then I don’t have to worry. And I thought, how interesting is this? This little doggy whole goal was to make sure that this man was well and could tell him when a seizure was coming on. And we give him about a minute’s notice. And I thought, that’s this dog’s little purpose in life is to make every day is to make sure that this man is okay. And I thought, well, that’s so special.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:53:07] But I find that fascinating because when you’re dealing with the pet owners and you realize what kind of person the pet owner is versus the pet, then you can use those strategies to say, okay, you already know how to train, but then when it’s time for them to take the dog home, it’s like, okay, do they need it to be made sense? Do they need you to send them home with the list and all the things? Do they need you to check in on them six months from now? Did you keep doing this? Are these things once you know that, it’ll just make it exactly what they need?

Rachel Dudash: [00:53:38] And I think people have their own expectations that the animals aren’t aware of. And so I have to tell people, these are your expectations and we have to bring that to the animals, but they’re not going to naturally know or want to do what you want.

Rachel Dudash: [00:54:05] It’s like someone asking you, Hey, sit down outside of Disney World for me. And they’re like, Why? Well, no reason. And it’s like they have to have a reason. You have to have a motivator. Animals need to be motivated. And I think people forget and I’ll go to the vet’s office and people are screaming at their dogs to sit. And I’m like, Do you even know that they’re stressed? There’s no learning window. And the way that you have an expectation for them to do something, this is not on their radar, but it’s actually unfair to them and it’s not going to get you what you want or need. And so I have to break it down like that to people. And I just kind of give them a warning before we get into dog training. Like these are your own expectations. If there’s no reason for them to want to do it, they’re not going to do it. And so it’s kind of fun to.

Sharon Cline: [00:54:50] I think you’re training people.

Rachel Dudash: [00:54:52] I am. You are.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:54:53] Actually. And that’s the thing. I have another client who works in the animal industry and training people is exactly the entire business. They think it’s training the animal, but it’s not. I mean, you have there is work to do to help, just like there are things that teachers do for kids in schools and whatnot. But what it really boils down to is do you know yourself well enough to not let other people’s stress throw you off? Because that’s the biggest thing. And then once you are aware of your own, do you start becoming curious about them so that you can say, Oh, here’s the client that needs this. This isn’t that. Here’s the client who needs to be excited about the fact that they can they need someone to believe in them. That’s what your mom’s really good at, is they like me. I need somebody that believes in my ability to figure it out. Like not somebody that’s going to yell at me and tell me everything I’m doing wrong. Absolutely. That’s what I do. I like to tell people what they’re doing. And so what I need is very different. And so if you can start to see that, you’re like, Oh, this will be it becomes like a game of who are you really?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:55:50] You know?

Rachel Dudash: [00:55:51] And I have to be pretty much on people all the time. And I come at them in a way like, you know, I’m trying to help you. So there’s no shame. There’s nothing wrong with what you’re doing, but I’m going to tweak it to be better because I can see something you can’t see. And so I’m not going to make you feel bad about it. It’s just something you don’t really know. And there’s a lot of subconscious that happens in that kind of world, even for me. And so when someone tells me I’m doing something wrong, I’m like, No, I’m not.

Sharon Cline: [00:56:24] No.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:56:25] But what if I am? Like, Yeah.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:56:29] I find that all very, very, very fascinating. And I think.

Sharon Cline: [00:56:34] That would be an interesting show in itself. Just to even talk about, you know, how energy is perceived in translated and the expectation that energy has with it or energy that expectation has with it. It’d be really interesting. I hadn’t actually ever thought about it.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:56:48] Well, and like, I mean, even young business people are I liken them to being in the young infant adolescent stage of life where they’re trying to figure things out. And if we don’t have grace for them, if we don’t give them any leeway and we don’t show them any understanding that if we think they have to have like this is my favorite when it comes to interviewing and strategic hiring, it’s like, oh, you need to have 3 to 5 years of experience. Your your resume needs to look like this. And then in the interview, you got to tell us all the right answers. I’m like, Well, that’s a surefire way to get people to be very stressed out coming in. I want to know that. There’s going to be an opportunity for you here six years from now. Because if I’m that invested in my company, I want to know that you might be I’m not expecting you to, but I’m just wondering, what would it be like if you were and what would we need to do to make it so that you’re still excited about being here after a year or two years? And in today’s world, people will cut and run in an instant because we’re under so much stress. So we say, what if? What if we become the business owners, the hirers, the employees that say, no, there’s an opportunity for me to really enjoy this, and I want to make sure that I’m here for a while. What do I need from you? What do I bring to you? What do you need from me? And how do we make sure that we can be understanding? It doesn’t mean that we can be all things for all people, but we are understanding. And then I can see the stress levels and you can then not be as triggered by somebody else’s stress.

Rachel Dudash: [00:58:17] And then also like, what do you need from yourself? I think you also need to think about Joe.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:58:24] Yes, because you do have I mean, you have it’s really easy in time to continue to practice how to work with customers, which we’ve been talking about on these calls. But do you do that for you? Are you are you kind and fair and strong for yourself?

Rachel Dudash: [00:58:40] Absolutely. Yeah. And I think I think it’s worth taking a look inward for. Absolutely. Everyone should definitely.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:58:49] She’s on the team.

Sharon Cline: [00:58:50] Is she on the team? I’m hired. Are you hired?

Rachel Dudash: [00:58:53] Actually, I’m Joe Cianciolo, too.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:59:00] We need to encourage people that that is actually something worth our time.

Sharon Cline: [00:59:04] Which is what Anna is doing, which is kind of fascinating because, Anna, I don’t want to speak for you again, but I am, I guess. But like you, have you had to go through the hiring process in your job with Boys and Girls Clubs of America. And that was an interesting dynamic to kind of go through. And it was fascinating the types of people that you would talk about and like this person has this strength and this person has that strength and now you have a team around you. And I love that you’re working with Joe that can help you figure out the different parts of that team, how it how they can all work together to make like the perfect team.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:59:38] Oh, we had a fun chat about that this morning.

Sharon Cline: [00:59:40] Yeah.

Anna Kawar: [00:59:40] Oh, I’m learning a lot about a lot of the things that we’re talking about here. And it’s yeah, it’s been a great journey, but I think understanding my weaknesses and strengths has been insightful because I think sometimes we have a surface level understanding of them. But then when you get a little bit deeper, it can be very humbling and also vulnerable, but also inspiring because then you can think about how to you can see them as opportunities. And I think Joe and I have talked a lot about I tend to be I’m learning a lot about how I’ve tried to be all the things.

Sharon Cline: [01:00:25] All.

Anna Kawar: [01:00:25] The things I’m very hard on myself, and I have a lot of perfectionist tendencies, and I’ve worked on that a lot in the last few years, but I still have a ways to go when it comes to when it comes to accepting those gaps as opportunities and then inviting other people in to help me with them. And that’s a very vulnerable place.

Sharon Cline: [01:00:46] Because you have felt like you’ve had to be everything. So is that what you mean? So like in asking someone to come in is actually admitting that you’re not everything and that you have a vulnerability there that you need someone to fill. So then the question is, will they care enough about you to fill it? Yeah. Or their job.

Anna Kawar: [01:01:04] Yeah. Or will you be judged for not being able to do that thing?

Joe Cianciolo: [01:01:09] But when you see and this is without divulging anything, when you go to somebody asking them to do what is natural to them, they immediately take all the chains off and they light up and you’re like And the person said, I got you. Yeah, because you’re asking them to do what’s so natural to them, so simple to them. It comes out of them and they people love that. Yeah. I mean, instead of saying, Hey, I need you to help me dream up this idea that’s going to take, you know, solve world hunger, you give that to me and I will, I’ll shut down because I have way too many questions. But if you ask me something that requires like, let’s gather a bunch of data, poke a bunch of holes, and let’s see if we can, you know, quantify all this. I’m like, I got you. Let me get a spreadsheet.

Sharon Cline: [01:01:54] And then they don’t judge you right? Then they don’t judge you for it.

Anna Kawar: [01:01:57] Yeah. And I think I think there’s a I think there’s a big lesson that I keep trying to remind myself, which is people want to help and they want the opportunity to help and they want to feel valuable. And I and it’s and I love bringing my team along. And I think sometimes they’re annoyed by how collaborative I want everything to be, but that there’s a difference between that and specific. Glee, calling on people for specific strengths that they have. And I’ve had a couple of really great conversations with my team members in the last couple of weeks where I’ve said, Oh, oh, you are really good at this, okay, here’s how we can improve the way we work together and communicate and talk, even just the way you ask me questions, the way I ask you questions so that we can really leverage that thing you love to do. And that’s been just a more it’s been fun. It’s a it’s a fun.

Sharon Cline: [01:02:56] That’s a big word right there. Yeah. Fun. Because what we’re talking about can feel kind of heavy, you know, in doing this introspection and then being willing to be feel ashamed of like the natural tendencies. We have tendencies we have to protect ourselves or to to not show that there’s any kind of weakness. But I love that what you’re saying is it’s actually fun to uncover those things because then you can work around them and so it reframes it from being something to be ashamed of, but instead is just like a little nugget of knowledge. It doesn’t have any emotion attached to it, which takes all the judgment off.

Anna Kawar: [01:03:30] And it also makes me feel like I have more time to do other things that I would much rather do.

Anna Kawar: [01:03:36] Which is the key, right?

Rachel Dudash: [01:03:38] And I also think it’s okay to not know. And like you can tell yourself like it’s okay that I don’t know this. Maybe I’m not meant to know everything, right.

Sharon Cline: [01:03:48] Having the acceptance of that.

Rachel Dudash: [01:03:49] Yeah.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:03:50] Well, and I always lead by telling people right off the bat what the weakness is. When I tell them, I’m like, I’m about to sound judgmental. I’m not. It’s just how I sound. So if I. If you hear me say that, it’s because my questions are better when they’re strategic, not personal. And sometimes I don’t mean to say it that way, So I have to reframe it. I lead with that, and people are like, okay. And I said, no, because it would be easier if all of us understood where we might like, Oh, you know what? I just bounced too many ideas, didn’t I? Okay, yeah. Okay, let’s pick one. And then you’ve already solved what they’re frustrated by. And business owners, team leaders have that problem all the time is if they don’t know that, then they run those same team meetings over and over and over, and people have the same frustration, and eventually they just stop trying to even communicate it back. They just think, Oh, I just have to deal with it.

Anna Kawar: [01:04:42] I just have to sit here.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:04:43] Yeah, no, it’s what would happen if we became open to that feedback. What would what would it be like if we changed the dynamic of that? And I had a client today, a whole company client, where they have they have received feedback this year in a way that we’ve never done it before. We have an entire it’s very well laid out so that they can’t be emotional. It has to be it has to be balanced with the organization structure. We have great tools for it. And I said this one, this one employee was very, very frustrated years ago and today said, I’m actually much happier about feedback because I’m okay with it, knowing that there’s so much reason behind it. I was like, Yes, that loyalty for that employee to be there is so different now than it was before, and the feedback is going to be much better to me. More appropriate.

Sharon Cline: [01:05:34] It feels better, right? So it’s so interesting to me because we’re talking about feeling, you know, and I think so much of what I think about when I’m talking to business owners is, is like there’s a lot of facts, you know, how did you come up with your LLC, You know, how did you come up with your business plan? Where do you want to see yourself in five years? But it doesn’t really have as much of the feeling behind it. But I love that that’s really so important because that’s like our barometer of our happiness is like, Well, what was today? Like? Am I driving home with the radio off because I’m trying to process everything you know, or am I happy? Am I feeling fulfilled? And because that’s it, it’s like the fulfillment part. It’s not all. I mean, I know there are money driven people and that’s fine, but it’s like not all about that. At the end of the day, we.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:06:16] Just want them to be authentically driven by that and then not be afraid of.

Anna Kawar: [01:06:20] It. And I mean, there’s science and research that backs up that the most successful companies allow space for people to be that much more authentic, innovative, creative and to to really to innovate as a company, you have to allow people’s brains the space and safety and inspiration to think of ideas, but then also feel supported in executing them. And so it is I mean, we talk we talk about our kids in Boys and Girls clubs like learning doesn’t happen if kids don’t feel emotionally safe. And I think it’s the same for humans. You you can’t really you can think you’re succeeding, but really you’re running in circles versus are you moving forward and able to take in feedback and process it in a safe way and come up with ideas and try things and fail and learn? Be okay to fail. Your business isn’t going anywhere if you don’t make space for that human component of just. The natural instincts we have for learning and wanting to wanting to share and wanting to take things in and.

Sharon Cline: [01:07:29] And want to be valued. I like that you said valued.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:07:31] We have a tool for that. Do we have a tool for that, Joe? Of course there’s skills.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:07:36] There’s emotional awareness and there’s others awareness. And the top most respected people. When you say make space, it’s because they understand that all of those are necessary to keep people productive, happy and innovating or just executing. Because that’s the other thing is a business owners will come in here trying to figure out how do we keep growing? How do we keep growing? What happens if the solution is actually just to execute really well and make sure that the drivers or your your indicators, your health indicators are in the proper order and the money is enough and the people are what keep you motivated. The purpose is strong, whichever one it is, Is it the ability to to not. My kids always say this. You work all the time. I said no, I get to work. I love my job, but I also have a balance and I choose that balance. And I could be like other people and go to a 9 to 5. But that’s not the world that I define success by. So playing a round of golf in the in the in the yard before taking the kids to school this morning is fun for me. That’s what makes life worth living. And so I also love my job.

Rachel Dudash: [01:08:44] So I’m clapping for Joe because.

Sharon Cline: [01:08:46] That’s that’s a golf clap, by the way. That was a golf clapping.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:08:50] That’s absolutely true. But we have to be bold.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:08:53] We have to be understanding and we have to be willing to say we don’t have to do it alone.

Sharon Cline: [01:08:58] I love it because I feel like you helped. Well, two people out there in the stratosphere today.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:09:04] Sorry if there was a third one.

Sharon Cline: [01:09:05] It didn’t it didn’t work. But that’s actually kind of like that. We had to that we could a little bit deconstruct a bit and spend some time really analyzing what the best solutions are. And I would love to have you come back, Joe, and and have some other calls come in. And I’m learning so much, too, even about myself, which is so fun because I know that we’re helping other people. But I, like I download all this too, and think, how can I implement these things in my life and maybe make a better fearless formula for myself? So it’s all about me.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:09:35] That’s awesome.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:09:35] No, you can’t give what you don’t possess. So if you don’t know it for yourself, how can you help others? So we have to help ourselves first.

Rachel Dudash: [01:09:42] Absolutely.

Sharon Cline: [01:09:43] Well, Joe, anyone that’s listening now and is interested in following up with you, how can they get in touch with you?

Joe Cianciolo: [01:09:48] I am Joe from Porch advisors.com. That’s advisors with an E at the end.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:09:54] I know.

Sharon Cline: [01:09:55] Ers. Yes, no worries. Okay. So they can contact you there.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:09:58] They can contact me there.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:09:59] Yeah.

Sharon Cline: [01:10:00] Excellent. Well, thank you, Anna. Boys and Girls Clubs and Rachel Jordache of Atlanta, dog trainer. And thank you, Joe, of Front Porch Advisors for being on the show. And let’s do this again, like in a month.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:10:12] Yes.

Joe Cianciolo: [01:10:12] Thank you Sharon.

Sharon Cline: [01:10:13] You’re welcome. My pleasure. And thank you all for listening to Fearless Formula on Business RadioX. And again, this is Sharon Klein reminding you with knowledge and understanding, heck yeah, we can all have our own fearless formula, have a great day.