Jason Sandmann with Out of the Weeds

Intro: [00:00:07] Coming to you live from the Business RadioX studio in Woodstock, Georgia. This is Fearless Formula with Sharon Cline.

Sharon Cline: [00:00:17] Welcome to Fearless Formula on Business RadioX, where we talk about the ups and downs of the business world and offer words of wisdom for business success. I’m your host, Sharon Cline, and today in the studio we have a life coach who focuses on expanding his clients possibilities through emotional healing and raising consciousness. Two decades in the restaurant industry, and he has cracked the code on on how to encourage people to understand the ways they can use their finances, not only for financial freedom, but personal freedom. So please welcome to the studio, Jason Sandmann.

Jason Sandmann: [00:00:53] Hello. Hello. Thank you for having me.

Sharon Cline: [00:00:55] Yeah, I’m happy to have you in the studio and your company is out of the weeds coaching, is that right? Yes, correct. Okay. How did you come up with the name?

Jason Sandmann: [00:01:03] So that was an ode to my restaurant days, for sure. You know, whenever you if you’re familiar with the restaurant lingo or if you’re not familiar with restaurant lingo, I should say, whenever somebody is like completely swamped and they have too many tables for themselves and they can’t even think straight, they’re like considered to be in the weeds. And that’s either for the back of the house or the front of the house. And they usually need to have some help being pulled out. And as I started moving towards like doing something else, I really wanted to honor that space. And really this has been pulling me out of the life weeds.

Sharon Cline: [00:01:37] So if I go to a restaurant, that’s what people are saying in the back, like, Oh, I’m in the weeds.

Jason Sandmann: [00:01:41] Oh my gosh.

Sharon Cline: [00:01:42] Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah, I haven’t heard that term.

Jason Sandmann: [00:01:44] Yeah. No, they are, they might not say it from a with a PG Oh. Thing but they are definitely saying it. Yeah. It’s definitely one of just the little things of the language of that.

Sharon Cline: [00:01:58] So it’s nice. Like you said, it’s an ode to where you used to be 100%. And what I like too is that you focus a lot on people who are in the service industry, helping them to get themselves out of the weeds, not in the restaurant, but like, financially.

Jason Sandmann: [00:02:12] Yes. So that is something that’s somewhat shifted as I have shifted. When I first started going into coaching, it was very much I was in the middle of my own debt free journey and I had started finding all these resources that were helping me. And I was just wondering like, there’s all of these people in the service industry. Over 50% of people in the United States work at the service industry at some point of their lives over 50%. Yeah, it was crazy. And I was just like, Why is nobody talking to people here about how to actually like manage your money and how to build towards a life that you want? Like, it’s a beautiful, beautiful industry, but so many people are just stuck in thinking that it’s just a, you know, job that is only temporary or doesn’t mean anything, or they’re going to be judged by it. And I was like, No, you can actually go and build whatever life you want and stay in this business if you want to. Now, I said that as I was exiting it and my focus has gone. I still love working with people in the service industry. It’s where my heart and soul is. I’m the best people I’ve ever met were in that. But as I’ve kind of grown my business and it’s become much more of my own spiritual journey into it, I’ve expanded that just to really anyone who struggles with happiness and how that plays into our finances, how that plays into our relationships and how it plays into our health.

Sharon Cline: [00:03:27] Well, what I didn’t realize and you have this on your website that tipped workers are more than twice as likely and servers almost three times as likely to fall below the federal poverty line. And I think that’s fascinating to me because there is a notion, or at least in my mind, I’ve assumed that in order to build wealth, you have to already have a bunch of wealth like the wealthy people build more wealth. But what you’re saying is it’s the opposite.

Jason Sandmann: [00:03:53] Yeah, no, it’s totally the opposite, right? Like one of the things that I know we kind of maybe had on the list to talk about a little bit. Like a lot of times we work backwards, right? We think that like we’ll be wealthy once we amass the wealth or whatever, but it all starts the other way around. Like we have to kind of start making those decisions from a place of like what a wealth mindset would look like. What does like a self worth with wealth mindset look like? And you can certainly go and not be limited by any of the circumstances. It just requires making some different decisions there. In the restaurant industry especially, there’s this kind of just prevailing mindset of like, you know, when I’m flush, I’m flush. Like when the money comes in, when it’s good, I’m going to go ahead and spend it. And then on those tougher times, you know, the money’s just not there. And then how am I going to pay rent? And it just takes a little bit of shifting of that. It takes a little bit of kind of reorganizing values and then all of a sudden you can really start like building momentum and create, you know, enough money to go and buy that house to go and like create a lot of solid foundation. The restaurant industry is one of the only places I knew where I could go in without having like my college degree finished and go and make like significant money. Does it have its drawbacks and its challenges? 100%. But it’s not. That’s not what the problem is. Is really the mindset that comes around it. And this idea that it’s temporary because it’s also driven by day to day.

Sharon Cline: [00:05:21] Because you can’t count on the amount that you’re going to get. There’s no set amount, right?

Jason Sandmann: [00:05:25] Yeah, there’s no reliability. You can go in one day and make $25 and you can go in the next day and make 250. And so it becomes this really weird game of, you know, trying to stick it out on those slow times and not let that discourage you. And then like, you know, Oh, is there another place I should go work? Is that more consistent? And then like when you go in, you’re chasing it. Like if you’re chasing money, it’s always running away.

Sharon Cline: [00:05:48] I think anything you chase runs away from you.

Jason Sandmann: [00:05:50] That’s absolutely correct. Yeah, for sure. So it’s one of those things where you really just have to find some way to build consistency in an inconsistent environment.

Sharon Cline: [00:06:01] So what are the challenges that you generally find? Is it does it come down to just that mindset? Is it once you switch the mindset, then it’s not so difficult.

Jason Sandmann: [00:06:09] It’s not just mindset, right? Like a lot of times we kind of want to pretend in the space that it’s just mindset, but like you really need a kind of a whole body experience or like a whole embodiment of it. But the mindset is a huge part of it and it’s certainly where you can start the environment for people who are in the restaurant world can be very, very challenging, right? It’s fast paced. You’re really tired, you’re surrounded by food and drink and alcohol, a lot of alcohol. There becomes a lot of dependency. I certainly had my own battles with.

Sharon Cline: [00:06:39] That can only.

Jason Sandmann: [00:06:40] Imagine. And you know, it becomes very easy for that. Like the hours are long and different. So like, you know, going and cooking dinner for yourself when you get off a shift at 1 a.m. doesn’t really sound like, you know, the environment for a healthy lifestyle. But you can make different choices to build around that and you can kind of find some different avenues to build health, but you have to decide that you want to do it.

Sharon Cline: [00:07:03] Gosh, it’s funny, you know, I just I’m a patron, right? So I’ll just go to a restaurant and I just order my food or whatever. But I don’t I have not really sat and thought about what it’s like on a server side, seeing someone like me over and over and over again, you know, and then staying there, like you said, late and then hoping that the tips come because not everybody tips the same. But I also think how difficult it is to serve the public. Oh, my goodness.

Jason Sandmann: [00:07:29] It can be. I like to try to bust down that myth as much as I can. Right. Like I when I say that the best people I ever met were in the restaurant industry. A lot of them were people I worked with, but a lot of them were also on the customers and the guests I made. Like, it really just matters where your attention goes. Like if you want to put all your focus on the people who don’t tip well or you know, the table that like ran you a little bit ragged and that’s where all your energy goes, then you’re going to miss all of these really wonderful interactions you had, or at the very least just something where you went and you just made somebody’s day a little bit better. You nourish them and there was no kind of energetic exchange at all. But I found so many beautiful relationships through those customer engagements. And I think a lot of people do have that experience, but it can get very easy to like fall into the, Oh my gosh, I need to make certain amount of money. This person didn’t tip me. And then your energy goes down and all of a sudden your entire night is wasted.

Sharon Cline: [00:08:27] Well, you do have a connection between coaching what you’re doing with finances and someone’s mental well-being. So it’s not just how someone manages money, it’s actually there’s a therapy behind it.

Jason Sandmann: [00:08:40] 100%. Yeah.

Sharon Cline: [00:08:42] Can you talk to me about what that is?

Jason Sandmann: [00:08:44] Yeah, it’s, you know, everything, in my opinion, ends up coming down to like, how we feel about it. And I still have my own stories and limitations around money that I’m working through myself because, you know, we have these preconceived notions and this programing that we’re not even sure of where it came from. Truth. And there’s a lot to do around, like, you know, before we can kind of rewrite the money stories or just self-worth stories, we have to let go of a lot of the old ones. We have to uncover them. We have to allow ourselves to feel them and then start seeing them for the illusions that they are. You know, you mentioned one of them earlier is like, well, you have to have wealth to get wealth. That’s only as true as you make it. Right. But we just we hear it enough that subconsciously we decide, well, you know, yeah, that’s got to be true. So I’m never going to get there. And, you know, if you want to go and resent people who have a lot of money, like is that going to be a formula for you to invite a lot of money into your life? No, it’s not like there’s so much energetically and there’s just so much emotionally that we have to work through and really also just take this equation with like money equaling happiness kind of out of the out of the equation. Like you can create money from a happy state, but, you know, money’s not going to bring you happiness if you’re not happy before you get it, you’re not going to be happy afterwards.

Sharon Cline: [00:10:06] I have heard this phrasing, that money, and you’re more of an expert than I am. So I would love to know if you think this is true, that money amplifies. Who you already are. So if you’re sort of a darker energy kind of person or a controlling person, well, now that you have a bunch of money, you get to use that as a way to continue to further your control. But if you have like sort of a generally happy disposition, you use that money in the same way to further your happiness and the happiness of other people.

Jason Sandmann: [00:10:36] There’s definitely truth in that, right? And I find it interesting that that that equates so much with alcohol, right? Like when you drink too much, it’s one of those things where.

Sharon Cline: [00:10:44] That that’s so brilliant. I hadn’t thought about that.

Jason Sandmann: [00:10:47] It amplifies.

Sharon Cline: [00:10:48] Who you already.

Jason Sandmann: [00:10:49] Are, who you already are. It never makes you do anything that you wouldn’t do. It’s just something that kind of allows you to like be less blocked in front of doing it. And money is the same way. Like if you feel like scarcity runs your life, no amount of money is ever going to be enough. You can have $1 million in the bank and just be like, I’ve got to get more. I’ve got to get more on the other side of things. Like, you know, if you’ve got this identity of like just you’re a poor person and that’s what you live by subconsciously, well then no matter how much money you make, you’re always going to spend more than you make. And you’re always going to do that until you start to really reprogram what that mind is like, especially the subconscious beliefs for it.

Sharon Cline: [00:11:26] It’s so fascinating to me to think that even my saying wealthy people make money or wealthy people make more wealth through investing that that maybe I have and haven’t thought about it, have a conscious, subconscious belief that I you know, I’m resentful of those people. Like I’ll never be that person. Do you know what I mean? Like, I didn’t even think about just even having that phrasing in my head would encourage subconsciously a negative belief that will actually keep me in the position of never being able to have enough money to invest.

Jason Sandmann: [00:12:02] That is something I think most people don’t really consider how powerful the language that we use is and like really whatever we speak our world into, like it creates it. And especially what we give our power and energy to. So if it’s one of those things where, yeah, like we just kind of say it and it’s off the cuff and we just like, we have to go dig in and accept that it’s true. Like that idea that money doesn’t grow on trees, right? That came from the Great Depression and things have changed completely since then. But that prevailing belief is what drives so many people to kind of stay stuck in their position that they are or say that, you know, it’s so limited when all we see is the government print more money, right? Like I can I imagine a world where it’s not like money itself is is a different conversation, but like it’s just energy that we exchange and there’s really an unlimited supply when we kind of look at it from that lens. But we have to realize it’s like, Oh man, subconsciously I have all of these beliefs, not just about like these external things, like money or whatever else, but about myself and my ability to to earn it or what I’m worthy of. Et cetera. Et cetera.

Sharon Cline: [00:13:14] So you’re talking deep emotional work. Yes. And so how open are people generally? Because when you’re talking about money. Okay, well, what stocks should I invest in? Like, it’s facts and, um, not subjective to your opinion or my opinion of myself? It’s just facts. And so how how resistant are people to really doing? I’m sorry. You’re kind of laughing. Well.

Jason Sandmann: [00:13:44] People are pretty resistant to doing the emotional work until something prods them to do it. And for me, at least in my life, I’ve noticed that like or at least it’s my opinion that emotional avoidance is really at the root of pretty much all of our problems as a society. I think it’s at the root of depression. I think it’s at the root of addiction. I think it’s at the root of all of this supposed separation that we’re supposed to feel from each other. All of it is running either away from a feeling or chasing a feeling. And to me, you know, especially like, you know, growing up as a man in the South, there’s like this concept that we’re supposed to be like to be like masculine or to be a man you’re not supposed to, like, express how you feel and or you’ll talk to like, you know, some of the older generation, they’re like, Well, we didn’t talk about all this stuff back, back then. And I’m just like, Well, that’s why we’re here now. Do you.

Sharon Cline: [00:14:37] Hear that? People say, Yeah, Oh, you know, no, suck it up or whatever it is. I don’t know what they say, but.

Jason Sandmann: [00:14:42] Not as much anymore. Right? Like, I’m I’m very grateful to live in a time where we do talk a lot more about our mental health. And I think there are a lot of areas where we’re still missing the mark on addressing it, but we’re at least more open to the discussion and more people are coming to the work, which is really great. My family will still definitely go down. We don’t need to feel this or talk about any of these things and I’m just like, Well, I don’t know what we’re going to talk about then, because it’s literally all I talk about.

Sharon Cline: [00:15:08] What have you noticed in I don’t know if the quality of your life is the right word or phrase, but. What have you noticed that has been so motivating for you about your life that makes you want to share so much with other people?

Jason Sandmann: [00:15:23] I know how low I’ve been. I was for a long time, very identified with like the label depression. And I don’t really do a lot of labeling myself with a lot of things. But like, I would have told you I was depressed all day long. And while I never would have called myself an alcoholic, I certainly had the dependency issues with drugs and alcohol. And, you know, I thought I was hiding a lot of that. And it turns out that I wasn’t right. I ended up I had I had a marriage for 13 years or 11 years. We were together for 13. That ended. I ended up leaving my job and everything felt like it was falling apart. And all of a sudden, though, I started finding like these little beautiful windows into forgiveness and acceptance for some of the things that had been holding me back so long. Some of my family stories and, you know, over time, I’ve become the happiest person I know. Like, I just love my life and it’s completely independent of my circumstances. Like I’m still figuring out the business side of things. A lot of times, like, how do I go and approach this and how do I attract people to do this work that they’re resistant to doing? And I still fall into times when I am in a lower vibrational state or lower energy state. But I always know I get to come back to love. I always know I get to come back to just getting accessing my higher perspective and saying like, no, like I am so grateful for everything that’s come on. And that journey has been so meaningful to me that I just want to bring as many people along for that as I can. It’s never about, you know, trying to have them believe the same things I believe, but it’s just opening up people to their own belief and their own expansive possibilities once we remove our emotions from what our circumstances are.

Sharon Cline: [00:17:08] But that’s really important because so much of my story I identify with and the reason why I can justify what I’m doing and why I’m doing it because of my story. And so what you’re saying is that story has run its own script and is really not serving me in going forward to change what my future will be. If I continue to identify with my story, then it keeps me in that same vein or mode. Yes.

Jason Sandmann: [00:17:34] Yeah, that’s exactly right. Pretty much everything that we create in life are based on stories, and those stories are only as true as we make them. Most of them are just, you know, ego programing and attachment to these identities that this is who I am. And you really have this capability of deciding that you’re going to be somebody different. You can do it in a day. And, you know, I work with a lot of people around like self confidence and everything else and like, you know, just being able to go into a room and believe that you belong in a room, like it really is just a decision. And it’s where the storyteller, which means we get to author a new one. But that’s so scary to consider. And it’s so there’s so much resistance. And it’s like, no, no, this is all real. And it’s like, it’s only as real as we make it. Like life corresponds to the beliefs that we carry. And it’s really I always joke around because when I work with somebody, it’ll start off pretty heavy, right? Like it is. It’s just heavy. One of my clients the other day joked around. She’s like, I’m going to talk about the five stages of working with you. And it was anger, anger, anger, anger and acceptance.

Sharon Cline: [00:18:40] What a.

Jason Sandmann: [00:18:41] Fight. Yeah. And so, I mean, that’s challenging and it’s scary to confront all of these stories and kind of see where we’ve held ourselves back and, you know, not and feel the shame that comes with that. But that shame is just a story as well. And once we get through that, it gets to be this really fun and inventive time where it’s just like, Well, what do I want to do? Like what? What at the heart of myself have I always actually wanted? And like, how do I start creating stories that empower me to get to that?

Sharon Cline: [00:19:13] Well, what you’re saying to me is that I can’t play the victim anymore, which there’s some satisfaction I got. Sorry. I get a little satisfied being able to say that it’s not my fault. You know, somebody did this to me. And the reasons why I can’t is because this was done to me or this circumstance happened, and A plus B equals C like anyone. But what you’re saying is I can change that narrative completely and be the author of a whole different kind of narrative that brings out a different experience.

Jason Sandmann: [00:19:46] Absolutely. Yeah. 100%. Like everything is, it comes down to a choice, right? Like, nobody can make me angry. They might do an action that, like, triggers my emotional reaction of anger. But the anger is my own, and the decision to stay in it is my own. And, you know, it doesn’t mean that you don’t feel it like because there’s an entire other thing about like, numbing that you don’t want to do. But what it does mean is that you don’t allow it to take over your. Life and become who you are. You get to change it. And I’ll give just a real example from my life. So, you know, again, my family life was really, really challenging. For a long time, I didn’t really have a relationship with my mother or my father. And for over 20 years, I didn’t see my mother at all. And so for a long time, I was a victim to that story. Right? Like my parents didn’t love me enough. And, you know, that was how I lived my life. And I was always looking for other people to validate what how lovable I was like what people thought of me. And it was never enough. It was never enough and never, never enough. It was trying to fill a hole that was endless. And then when I did find this book called The Four Agreements and I started coming through that.

Sharon Cline: [00:20:57] I’m well aware of that one. Such a good one.

Jason Sandmann: [00:20:59] It’s so good, right? Like that thing. Don’t take it personally. And it shattered the glass for me and I was like, my parents were just they were 20 years old at the time. They had me. I was 30 something at the time. When I was having this realization, I was like, I’m still not ready to really like raise a kid given the environment I came from. They also had their own challenges like, why am I taking this so personally? They didn’t mean it like towards me. They were just struggling with their own life. And once we start seeing people through that lens, everybody’s just acting out of their own pain or their own level of consciousness. And so nobody’s really trying to kind of come and get us. We’re not a victim unless we choose to be, and that there is a little bit of resistance in that because then it means we have to take responsibility.

Sharon Cline: [00:21:46] So what I’m saying, what do you mean it’s all because of me? Well, but I think that like harkens back to that phrasing. Like no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. I think it’s Eleanor Roosevelt who said that, which I understand the concept of that. Like you have to actually believe that you deserve that label. And once you do, well, then yes, they made you feel that way because you already inherently had that thought process in your head. Yeah.

Jason Sandmann: [00:22:11] There’s another kind of idea about that, right? Where it’s, you know, nothing that can’t or nothing that I’m trying to phrase this, right? Actually, just read it. Nothing that can’t be attacked needs to be needs to be defended. Right? Like if I’m so secure in who I am and like what I’m bringing to the table, that, like, if somebody doesn’t like, see it, that’s fine, then there’s no reason to have any defense over it. But as those areas where we already are seeing ourselves in that light, where it becomes really vulnerable and really scary because we feel like, you know, we’re on unstable ground and it just takes work to kind of get through that.

Sharon Cline: [00:22:52] Do you think that shame drives most most of our issues in life?

Jason Sandmann: [00:23:00] Yes. I’m actually coming to some new language around this as well. Like shame. Shame is one of the, like lowest vibrational emotions we can stay in and, you know, very heavily attached to guilt. And I equate shame with the word should, right? Like, you know, I should have done this. I should have done that. And that becomes really, really a self-defeating very quickly, whereas I could have done that brings up possibility. Ultimately, I think fear drives most of our decisions. It all comes down to fear of abandonment or fear of rejection, which both are really just aspects of fear of separation. But, you know, with that anger and sadness kind of play with it. But but shame kind of triggers all of those things, right? Like it’s it’s kind of the doorway into those, you know, is it the doorway into fear? Is the doorway into that sadness area for sure.

Sharon Cline: [00:23:51] So I believe that most people make decisions out of fear or love, right? Yeah. So. If you were to percentage it out. Generally speaking, how much does fear drive just the average person? Because I have fear of a lot of I’m sorry, this isn’t about me, but I was thinking I, I have fear about a lot of different things, but I’m wondering how much my fear separates me from like, what you’re saying is changing my narrative to be more loving and accepting not of just my own story, but of someone else in my life who I’m projecting my feelings onto instead of being compassionate to them and loving to them. How much do I change who I am in order to not have that separation?

Jason Sandmann: [00:24:36] Yeah, I think if I’m answering it from a percentage, I think 100% of people are like really driven by it, right? Like, it’s part of all of our lives.

Sharon Cline: [00:24:44] I know. I was thinking that, that I think I do this all day long.

Jason Sandmann: [00:24:47] We do. And like, you know, there are different levels of, for lack of a better term, like when you kind of get to enlightenment and start living from love, from a lot more, from another area like you can start changing that and it becomes this really beautiful experience. But, you know, most of us, even when we’re really first operating around like we don’t even know how to love, right? Like, because we don’t know how to love ourselves. We don’t know what that feels like. And so even that’s kind of driven by fear because it’s just I want somebody else to tell me that I’m worthy and then I’m.

Sharon Cline: [00:25:20] The bottomless pit of need of validation, like you were saying, like there’s never enough words. Because if it doesn’t come from me, then there’ll never be enough because I need it externally. It’s not coming internally.

Jason Sandmann: [00:25:33] Exactly. And the nice thing about that, though, is once you do start accessing the internal, there’s an endless supply. Like you never run out, you know? And for me, that’s my connection with Source or God or spirit.

Sharon Cline: [00:25:46] Whatever you want to call it.

Jason Sandmann: [00:25:47] Everybody’s got a different. Everybody’s got a different name. And I kind of go between the three because that’s been a more recent journey for me to really embrace. But yeah, like it’s never if you’re looking for love and you’re really and you know where you find it, like there’s never a chance for it to run out. You can love everybody. You can love everything. But we do look at it as a finite resource until we kind of learn to tap into it.

Sharon Cline: [00:26:12] Have you noticed the quality of your relationships are so different because of this shift in your own perspective on what the purpose is of even having relationships?

Jason Sandmann: [00:26:22] Yes, 100%. Like there’s so much more kind of openness and vulnerability. There’s so much more understanding. And not with every relationship, right?

Sharon Cline: [00:26:32] Like, I don’t think everyone is designed to think like that.

Jason Sandmann: [00:26:35] It’s for for me personally, I get really in my own head, like sometimes about like, you know, not wanting to always just speak into somebody’s life like that and like, meet them where they’re at while also, you know, not enabling or keeping that up. And so there are certainly relationships that will be a little bit more challenging for me to navigate that with. And I’m still, you know, I’m awaiting my partnership to like, really get to do that romantic relationship again where it’s something where we both get to be fully invested in doing this, work ourselves and build co-creating a life together. But yeah, just the conversations I have with people on the street, the conversations I have with people I’ve known forever, it’s like night and day from what I used to be. It’s so much more rich and it’s so much easier to actually see them for what they’re saying rather than just put my filter on it the entire time and wondering what I’m going to have to say next. It’s just it allows me to be really present in every relationship that I’m in.

Sharon Cline: [00:27:37] I love what you’re saying because there are times where I am very, very mindful of where I am and what I’m doing in my life. Like, I try to imagine imagine that tomorrow I no longer am allowed to be in my house. It burns down or whatever. So sometimes I’ll walk around and look at where I am. With a wistfulness like that, it’s almost gone and that I get to visit it, you know, kind of like if you could imagine visiting your childhood home, you’d look at every little thing and be like, Oh my God, I totally forgot that that was, you know, Oh, I remember. So I try to do that. And then there’s like this feeling of appreciation that I have that I don’t think I access because I’m always running, I’m always doing a million things and I’m like, it’s I need to clean. Like, that’s what I’ll be thinking about what I haven’t done. But I like the quality of my day. I’m still living the same day, but the quality of my day feels sweet. I don’t know if that’s the right word.

Jason Sandmann: [00:28:33] Sweeter. I love sweet. I think that’s a beautiful way to describe it. It’s. Yeah. Presence is everything, right? Like being willing just to be in the moment that we’re in and not be driven by, you know, future anxiety or past fears because that’s all like, that’s all made up space. None of those things actually exist. We’re here now. And the more that we can like be in that moment and just appreciate it for the perfection that it has, even if it’s something that’s challenging us, there’s always we can always find what it’s teaching us. We can always find the beauty in it, and it takes training. That’s why gratitude is just such a powerful.

Sharon Cline: [00:29:13] That was my question. We were talking about why you had a list of things to talk about, and I was thinking how important is because gratitude to me changes the energy of everything. And so I was actually like, so excited to talk about that because when I have that gratitude feeling, like I was saying, you’ve been walking around my house and appreciating or just anywhere, I am thinking I’ll never be able to visit it again. So look at it with this wistfulness. It’s like my I can feel a change, like a like a visceral change in my body.

Jason Sandmann: [00:29:43] Yeah. We spoke, you know, talking about, like, emotional vibration and everything else. And that’s a whole other conversation that I’m not quite able to speak on in the depth that I usually like to communicate. But like, if you’re looking at gratitude, it’s one of the highest. Oh, okay.

Sharon Cline: [00:29:57] I got you. So that’s why it feels so different.

Jason Sandmann: [00:30:00] Yes. It’s literally like operating or opening you up to operate on a different frequency. And it’s rewriting your script, right? Like the brain and like, let’s let’s take a moment to, you know, be appreciative of the brain itself, like the ego that’s trying to protect us and everything else. All this stuff that runs in fear. It’s only doing it because, like, it’s on survival mind. Like it just thinks everything’s a threat. So it’s doing its best to give us safety, even though it’s in reality creating our misery.

Sharon Cline: [00:30:31] The oxymoron that is or whatever. It’s like the irony. Yes. You know.

Jason Sandmann: [00:30:36] Yeah, it’s just misguided as all it is. But like, you know, really finding reasons to be grateful. Like if you don’t, if you don’t have that in your heart now, like no circumstance is going to bring it about.

Sharon Cline: [00:30:47] No amount of.

Jason Sandmann: [00:30:48] Money. No amount of money. Yeah. Like no relationship, no meal, anything. It’s all fleeting, right? Like, but being able to be here and just be an appreciation for the moment. Like one of my mentors. We’ll talk about dating the phase you’re in. It’s like no matter where you’re at, just fall in love with it.

Speaker3: [00:31:07] Oh.

Sharon Cline: [00:31:08] I love that.

Jason Sandmann: [00:31:09] Yeah.

Sharon Cline: [00:31:10] So. So sometimes I imagine because I’m not in a relationship right now, but I try to imagine if I am, what would I miss about being without someone? So like the I don’t know, the control that I have, the not answering to anybody is kind of nice. But at the same time, like, think about it like that. I’d miss what are the things that I’d be missing. And so that way I can appreciate those things that I have right now. And there’s just something about knowing that I am very intentional, that if it did all end tomorrow, that will. I appreciated it while I was in it. So I don’t have as much mental torture about the fact that time has gone by and I haven’t done what I thought or my accomplishments aren’t as big as I think they should be. Like I have a lot of shoulds on me. Yeah, but I like that feeling of not the mental because I’m really good at mental torture but like relaxing. The Did you really appreciate what you had? Because now it’s gone. But if I take a minute to really do that, well then I don’t have to beat myself up for the pain. Yeah.

Jason Sandmann: [00:32:13] Yeah. That’s such a beautiful kind of avenue to explore and to play with, right? Like I always will talk about like suffering is the space between how things are and how we think they should be. And, you know, once we take that out of it and once we just allow ourselves to appreciate it for the moment that we’re in, it just becomes so much more freeing. It’s such a beautiful state to live in. And, you know, I would encourage you just from from your share here to, you know, play with the idea of like maybe not in that fear of losing it, but also understanding. Yeah, like we’re only here for a little while on this part of the experience. You know, we can talk about what happens after that all day long. And there there’s a lot that comes with, you know. Untangling our beliefs around that. But at the same time, like this is just like, what’s better than this moment right now, right? Like, this is such a cool, like just time to have a conversation. And it’s so nice just to be able to kind of like feel the air conditioning. It’s like, would I rather be paying attention to that or would I rather be like, Oh my gosh, what’s going to happen? Is anybody going to listen to this? Yes. Right, Right. Like, what did I just say? Oh, my God. Like none. That’s all just designed to keep us in the suffering state. And again, it’s a protective mechanism, but the more we can really find that space and create the space between our thoughts because the thoughts aren’t real, they’re not always ours until we, like, really intentionally choose them. Then like it just makes it such a easier experience to go live through.

Sharon Cline: [00:33:56] Right. Because the time is going to pass regardless. And so the quality of your experience can be so directly influenced by your intentions and your choices and how you want to experience them. So how? It’s interesting, too, that you take all of this really it’s higher thinking and apply it to money, which is so low when you think about it. I mean, it’s a tool, right? It’s a tool. But so many I mean, this is what drives so much in this world, right? Yeah. The acquisition of money and power that comes with it.

Jason Sandmann: [00:34:28] Yeah, there’s there’s this could be an entire other conversation around it. There is so much around money that we have either villainized or worshiped and both are wrong. Right? Like, again money is just an energetic means of exchange. It’s really very similar to time. It’s just a resource that we have. And, you know, the fact is, is like we get so caught up in these stories around it and we get so caught up in all of these beliefs that again, are only as true as we make them. But that’s how we run our entire lives, like everything is a story. And so it’s just being able to uncouple from that and be like, okay, do I actually believe this? Or is this just something I’ve heard all the time? Is this something that, you know, maybe I can tap into another energy? Do we have time for a quick story?

Sharon Cline: [00:35:21] I love.

Jason Sandmann: [00:35:22] Stories. Okay. So the money is energy thing is one of those things that I conceptually understood it for a while, but I couldn’t couldn’t see it. So last year I went to a marketing conference and we were in the second day of the conference was George Bryant was the guy’s name. He is phenomenal. I love all of his stuff, but we’re in the conference and he’s doing all this work. But like the second day you can tell that not everybody really knows each other. And he does this exercise to kind of call that out and we all get to know each other. And so, like now, this conference had already been amazing and we were really getting a lot of information and connecting. We just started connecting like supercharging it. And so a big group of us went out for dinner that night and we go to this restaurant and like, there are 20 of us and we go kind of to the back and there’s not really tables for us. And so people start moving the tables around and like my former self is like, Oh my gosh, they’re all going to hate us because they are. We don’t do this in a place. Let them come set it up.

Jason Sandmann: [00:36:20] But, you know, all of that happened and then we just started like sitting down and connecting. There were like 20 of us, and it just got like, better and better. The vibe just kept rising higher and higher. The service wasn’t great, like the service was fine. They didn’t really know what to do with us. They definitely calmed down from us moving everything around. But you know, it wasn’t anything that stood out. Well. One of the guys who was there at the conference was probably the youngest dude in the room. He was this was in Montana. And he snuck off and like paid for our entire meal. And everybody, like, starts finding this out and they start looking to him and they’re like, trying to force their money on him. And he’s like, No. And I’m like, I’m really working on being able to receive. And I was just like, you know, thank you for this gift. I’m going to go ahead and let you receive. Well, once he once it was clear he wasn’t going to take any more of the money, everybody just started throwing money on the table. And I had looked over and I’d seen that, like whatever. I don’t know what he had tipped her on his credit card, but I could see it had already been big because she had already been like, so grateful for it.

Jason Sandmann: [00:37:22] And then we handed her the cash and right there was finally where money is energy. Like we just exchanged money for a feeling, right? Like we just exchange it because we either want to feel better or we want to like. And so the more that we can kind of raise our own vibrational reaction to money, the more that we’re going to attract a lot of that in like the more we attach gratitude to money, even when we don’t have much. Like that’s when it’s most important. Just be so grateful for it coming in and, you know, just be thankful for all the opportunity to provide. It allows us to be fed and as we do that like money then just is attracted to us in a different way. And it’s this really beautiful thing. It’s just as we raise our energy, more people want to be around us and that gives us more opportunity to make money. And I’m just like, Oh, now living that is his own practice. But it’s certainly kind of the the set point that I want to operate from.

Sharon Cline: [00:38:17] I love that. Because what you’re to me I mean, I’ve spoken to different financial planners and people who are helping on the financial side. Like I was saying, with numbers like financially, it’s smart to invest here because traditionally it does this and this is how much you can expect to make. And generally, but you’re talking about a completely different mindset regarding the worthiness that we feel about whether or not we should have money and the like. You said, the villainy people associate with money, which but actually, if you think about it, and I’ve done this where I will be watching movies and almost all of the movies have to do like the bad guys are the ones that want money and the power that comes with the money. So in my mind, I’ve always had like a well, it ruins people’s. I don’t know. It’s corrupt. Corrupt. I don’t It makes people corrupt. Is that right? Is that right? Now I said that. Yes, it is on my radio.

Jason Sandmann: [00:39:13] Yeah. You know, it’s one of those things I just lost what I was going to say. Now. Now we’re really making some good.

Sharon Cline: [00:39:19] I distracted you big time.

Jason Sandmann: [00:39:21] Let me see if it comes back.

Sharon Cline: [00:39:23] We’re talking about how your way of approaching money.

Jason Sandmann: [00:39:28] Okay. Thank you. Yes, I do. I do recall. So one of the things when I first started going into coaching, it was strictly financial coaching. And I found that I don’t really have a lot of interest in like trying to do the min maxing and like trying to kind of figure out you can’t really talk about insurance or stocks, but like you do have to like be able to give some guidance there. And I have some interest in that. But like that’s never where I really got value from talking to people. What did really resonate with me was like, where your money goes is where your values are and how me going to that. That discussion is what helped me completely reframe my relationship with alcohol, like getting my money in check and making myself make a choice all the time and say, I’m either going to take it from here or not. Like forced me to like, look and be like, okay, this is where I say I my values are and my budget. This is where my money is actually going. And is that a choice I want to continue to make? And that’s what led me down to this, like figuring out what my values really are and then the subconscious work, because the money is just, as you said, it’s just a tool. It’s no different than any other tool. It’s going to, you know, it’s at the hand of the user. So what we really need to start managing is the user.

Speaker3: [00:40:41] Mm hmm.

Sharon Cline: [00:40:42] So interesting. Do you feel like you do you feel like the way that you. Um, choose to not allow your ego to rule your world. That you that choice that you’re making, is it a constant battle every day or is it or every choice? Or is it like a muscle that you get better at as the more you do it?

Jason Sandmann: [00:41:06] It’s certainly a battle, right? Like the ego is very crafty. It knows a lot of ways it does not want to be transcended. And that’s certainly when I talk about like the spiritual journey I’m on, that’s what I’m working towards. But as I said, like I, I certainly have times where I fall into future casting or past stuff. It does get much easier and you can, you know, create new identities for yourself that like really do help kind of keep or put it in a different program. So at least whatever your ego is coming with is something that you designed and got.

Sharon Cline: [00:41:42] You So and you’re talking about other tools, other sort of mental tools or grounding techniques that can get you out of the loop, that you can find yourself in. Because I think I battle all day long with what I really want and what my. Well, I mean, I’m either choosing to honor like my spiritual side or my body side. Do you know what I mean? So it’s like always a battle between those two.

Jason Sandmann: [00:42:05] Yes, it is always a battle. And ultimately, what we want to do is bring them into alignment, right? Because they are just the same. The spiritual body and the and the physical body are parts of the same, you know, consciousness that we all have. But yeah, like we are programed to say this is what we need to want. Like I’ve got to find security this way. And so many of us forget like the actual stuff that we want. We don’t chase what our dreams are. We don’t even know what our dreams are anymore. And that carries fear in and of itself for people, right? Like that’s another reason why people kind of avoid the work because they they shame themselves for not even knowing who they are.

Speaker3: [00:42:45] Sheesh.

Sharon Cline: [00:42:47] How much do I do this all day long? A lot. Yeah. All right. Well, I have another question for you. So you had mentioned that there are two important practices that anyone listening could incorporate into their routines. We were this is part of the questions that you had suggested. So what what do you think people could do? Like the average person, the.

Jason Sandmann: [00:43:09] Most important things for me, something I work anybody who works with me, it will be one of the first things that we go over is some sort of gratitude practice. And it is, you know, meditation or some sort of presence practice. It doesn’t have to be the same meditation that like we always picture, right? Like it doesn’t have to be the Buddhist on the mountain. If you feel called to that, great. Because there’s a lot of a lot of benefit to it. But really just creating that space between our thoughts and then starting the rewiring rewiring process to where we always train the brain to look for what it’s going to be grateful for rather than just look for the disaster, just look for the protection thing. Just be like, No, no, wait, what? What? Right now, in any situation can I find and be grateful for? And that’s not toxic positivity. That’s not pretending toxic positivity.

Sharon Cline: [00:43:57] Interesting. I hadn’t heard that term, and I totally get what you mean by it. I’ve never actually put that together. But you’re right. Someone can just it’s all going to be fine to a point of where there’s detriment. Yes.

Jason Sandmann: [00:44:07] Interesting. Yeah, it’s one of those things. It’s pretending that it doesn’t exist, which is really just, you know, it’s numbing where instead it’s just like, no, no, I feel this, but I’m still grateful because it’s a lesson. It shows me something else. It allows me to get closer to the things that matter. Et cetera. Et cetera. And like it’s a in this community, especially when you’re looking at, like, the spiritual, and then you get into the woo woo and the new age. Like, there are a lot of people who kind of just be like, Well, just be positive. And I’m just like, No, no, you’re here to feel all of it. Like part of this experience is where we wouldn’t know joy without the sadness. So they.

Sharon Cline: [00:44:40] Negate each other.

Speaker3: [00:44:41] Right?

Jason Sandmann: [00:44:42] Yeah. So, you know, be grateful for that, but don’t stay in it, right? Like then be able to come out and like, find those those tools and use those tools to get back into that, like more loving state. But be grateful for the hard times because they always have something to teach us about ourselves.

Speaker3: [00:44:59] Wow.

Sharon Cline: [00:45:00] So gratitude.

Jason Sandmann: [00:45:02] Gratitude for sure. And yeah, and meditation. And everyone, everyone ever says, Well, I can’t meditate.

Speaker3: [00:45:08] And everyone.

Sharon Cline: [00:45:09] Ever says this.

Jason Sandmann: [00:45:10] Like, literally, I think everybody I’ve ever spoken to is like, I’m no good at that. And I wasn’t either for a very long time. And, you know, that’s the point of it. Like every time your mind runs away and you bring it back, it’s just a gym rep. Like if we can just go to that. Like that’s the point is like, we don’t until we do the work to rein in that never ending loop, it’s just going to keep on running the show. And so it’s not that you can’t it’s just you haven’t practiced it and you only get better at it by sitting in some silence and just noticing how much your thoughts run and then just bring them back and then just notice how they run again and then bring them back and then over. Time you get to be really present with your environment, You get to look around your room and be like, Oh man, things are really great because you’re actually allowing your higher self to kind of come and observe it rather than just letting that chatter.

Speaker3: [00:46:02] Run the show.

Sharon Cline: [00:46:03] I like that you’re talking about it this way, because what I’m thinking is when I’m motivated to do that is like, imagine it gone. But that’s also a negative thought process behind it, right? That’s a fear. It’s a scarcity.

Speaker3: [00:46:13] A scarcity eventually, yeah.

Jason Sandmann: [00:46:15] There’s a scarcity mindset around that.

Speaker3: [00:46:16] So instead.

Sharon Cline: [00:46:17] Right, So it’s coming from lack, but instead look at it from a place of abundance and gratitude. So I need to reframe that.

Speaker3: [00:46:26] Yeah, thanks. Of course.

Jason Sandmann: [00:46:27] Absolutely. I can do this all day.

Sharon Cline: [00:46:31] Well, Jason, how can people get in touch with you?

Jason Sandmann: [00:46:34] The best way right now is is through Facebook. And that’s just where I do most of my writing. I’m I’m trying to build out some different things. My website that you’ve referenced a couple of times is certainly available. It it reflects my older financial coach kind of stuff. It doesn’t go as much yet into the consciousness work and everything else. I’ll be changing that soon. And then, you know, I’m a pretty open book like anybody who wants to find me, like I’ll I don’t know if I can give out a phone number on the radio. Go ahead. Okay. (770) 366-4058. Shoot me a text If there’s anything that you would like to talk about. I am here to serve for sure.

Sharon Cline: [00:47:13] Jason, thank you so much for coming on the show and being so generous with your spirit and giving me even my own things to think about. It’s not just business, do you know what I mean? It’s like the way that you talk about it. It’s associating business with your spirit, which is we are all people, right? That’s businesses are just like the cover, but we all are interacting with people.

Jason Sandmann: [00:47:34] Yeah, our business is just a reflection of ourselves, right? And business is all about building relationship and so not. And the relationship with ourselves is so important. So this work is foundational, I think, for creating a business that you’re happy and that you can thrive in. And I’m so grateful for the opportunity to come talk with you today. It’s been so fun. This is one of my favorite things to.

Speaker3: [00:47:54] Do, so me too.

Sharon Cline: [00:47:57] Happy Friday.

Speaker3: [00:47:58] Happy Friday for sure.

Sharon Cline: [00:48:00] Well, thank you again, Jason. I really appreciate your time. And also thank you all for listening to Fearless Formula on Business RadioX. And again, this is Sharon Cline reminding you that with knowledge and understanding, we can all have our own fearless formula. Have a great day.