Nicholas Marco With Hand and Stone

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Lee Kantor: [00:00:32] Lee Kantor here, another episode of Franchise Marketing Radio, and this is going to be a fun one today on the show, we have Nicholas Marco with hand in stone massage and facial spa. Welcome, Nicholas.

Nicholas Marco: [00:00:44] Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Happy to be here.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:46] Well, before we get too far into things, educate our listeners about hand and stone. How are you serving, folks?

Nicholas Marco: [00:00:52] Yes, Hand in Stone is a massage and facial spa franchise that also does waxing hair removal services, and it’s a national franchise with a national membership program where clients come usually once a month for their massage and facial services. We’ve been around since 2004. Our founders, actually my father, John Markoff longtime physical therapist, passion for massage therapy inspired to bring massage to the masses. And that is what we’ve done since 2004, and we’ve really introduced massage therapy and now facials to many, many people, and it’s become part of their lifestyle. And so I’m a franchisee and regional developer for the state of Ohio, for the brand, and obviously I’ve been part of it since it began.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:43] Now for you growing up and seeing it evolve, what was that like when you were deciding what to do as a career? Was this something that you knew all along that you were going to get involved in the business in some form? Or was it something that you were like, Oh, that’s nice for dad, but I’m going to do something else.

Nicholas Marco: [00:02:02] Yeah, it’s a great question. I really always try to stay involved, but at like kind of like a little bit of an arm’s length because I also had just this mentality that I’m great at science. I was always great in school, that I’m going to go the medical field route and become a doctor. And it took me a while to just get free of this kind of idea that I trapped myself in to feel like I couldn’t, you know, I couldn’t break away from that path. And so as I got pretty good in the business and my dad allowed me to get involved with training owners and then managers as I knew the business more and more, and I saw these long time established people in the corporate world. They buy a franchise, they spend all this money and then all of a sudden, I’m like their lifeline with my knowledge and I’m so young. I was just enamored by that role, and I just knew that not only did I love the business, but I loved this franchisee kind of franchisor support role. And so I am in the health care field, but I just got a bachelors degree in nursing, which I was able to do pretty quickly.

Nicholas Marco: [00:03:19] I still work in the ICU, but per diem and I now am a multi-unit owner, so I’m very fortunate to kind of be able to still have exposure to health care, but in a much more manageable way where I didn’t have to make the commitment to such a long road to becoming a doctor. When I just I’m such an entrepreneur at heart that I’m sure I get so much of that from my father, you know, and franchising now kind of has become an addiction of mine. I love reading about franchises. I really just think it’s such a an effective way to run a business because it’s based on support from a headquarters who just wants to drive your success. But then it’s also being motivated by those who actually own the business themselves, which is going to be so much more effective than just the manager only model. So, yeah, it’s been a wild ride. We have over 500 locations in North America, and I’ll never forget the day that it first opened in November of 2004. And you know what an experience to just grow up in. It’s been amazing.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:31] Now, when you were deciding on the career path and you were kind of, you know, you were seeing your dad, I’m sure, on a regular basis and seeing the growth of what he was building. And then you were like, OK, I’m going to do health care. I’ve talked to other kind of I don’t want to say yours is the family run business, but family members are part of the business. But sometimes the founder likes the children to go out into the world and learn and bring back. What they learn is there are things that you’ve brought back as a nurse and kind of involved in health care and looking at it through that lens that you bring back to hand in stone that says, Hey, this is an area where we can really make a difference. This is an area maybe we haven’t been paying attention to, but maybe we should.

Nicholas Marco: [00:05:19] Absolutely. And I can tell you, my dad really there was no pressure from him for my involvement in the business. It was really just I found my own path and just went along it kind of at my own pace. But there’s a lot of similarities to being a nurse, and I’m actually I work for the largest employer in New Jersey, which is where I live, and they happen to be a health care provider. But there’s a lot of similarities between being a licensed massage therapist or licensed esthetician or licensed nurse. They’re all a service provider in some capacity. And when you work for such a large organization and I’m an employee, you know what it’s like on the other side of that versus then being the employer? So it’s it’s it makes me a very good employer, I think, and in stone has always connected with massage therapists because it was founded by a physical therapist who practiced every single day, went to people’s homes and did home care and rehabilitated them to improve their lifestyle and get through those injuries or whatever it was specifically that my dad was treating. And so, you know, that carries through with me being a nurse and treating people in really the most dire situations, being in intensive care. And it really, I just think gives me a connection with my massage therapist and esthetician. What they do for our clients every day is really a game changer. And I can tell you through this pandemic, we’ve only come out in higher demand because people need the escape of just the chaos that society can be when it comes to just the news. Send social media and just the tragedy of COVID 19, so. But but service professionals need a lot of support because of what they do for those, and I see that directly being in the nursing profession. And so, you know, I my product is my people, and if I take care of my people, then I can be very successful and I just continue to not forget that. And nursing is a great reminder.

Lee Kantor: [00:07:34] Now is the ideal franchisee, somebody who comes from that health care background that is kind of lived. It maybe as frustrated by the bureaucracy and the politics of that, and they want to kind of go their own way. Or is it more of a, you know, kind of that second act executive that’s retiring? Or even now these professional kind of franchisees that are buying brands in order to build out a portfolio?

Nicholas Marco: [00:08:01] Yeah, it’s a great question, I think it’s hard to specifically land on which profile makes a fantastic franchisee because we do have great diversity and variety in our current franchisee network. But any professional that has success has been made through growing a team. And if those team members are in a industry that involves serving others clients directly, one on one, you know, so not necessarily running a team of people who do back off this type work and are sitting at a desk all day? You know, if you can coach a team that is, you know, on their feet every day serving clients, whether it’s in the restaurant space, the hospitality space, the salon space, the spa space, then you definitely have an advantage because your team feels like you’ve walked the walk instead of just talk the talk there and you know you can have a great start. But that’s the beauty of franchising is I can connect with an owner who has been an attorney and had an assistant, you know where they did even the administrative stuff for them. And I can give them the coaching and the training to be a successful owner and to relate to their employees and also be a great leader. And we have that playbook, which is why I think we maybe have one or two owners that they themselves are a licensed massage therapist and maybe a few others that have been a licensed esthetician. Great benefit, great perk, but by no means a requirement.

Lee Kantor: [00:09:38] Now is there a different difference in the profile of that kind of person who is buys one unit or as opposed to the multi unit franchise owner? Is that a different profile at all other than obviously financially? But is the makeup or the, you know, kind of the temperament or the makeup different or their or their background and career different?

Nicholas Marco: [00:10:02] Yeah. Well, one of the things that I feel fortunate to have learned at such a young age is how to work on your business and not in it. So I would say those with a, you know, corporate background where they do have to be far removed from the actual action or the front lines, if you will tend to be less intimidated by on how to be a multi-unit owner and get those scale much quicker, they establish their role in the in the business. Right from the get go is, you know, I’m not at that front desk, I’m not even managing the business. I’m kind of a consultant to my management team and and that can work fine. I mean, honestly, at the end of the day, it’s it’s as long as you care about the culture of your spa and you put great leaders in place and you hold those leaders accountable and you create the different ways to inspect what’s going on without physically being there, but also have ways to physically be there as well. To do that actual inspection, they’re not going by just what you’re always told is going on. You can make that work. And I find, you know, that’s actually what’s been something that I have learned through some of these very successful multi-unit owners in our brand who just established that from day one, but they come from a background where they learned how to do that.

Nicholas Marco: [00:11:22] And technology is our biggest advocate to making multi-unit owners in our business successful because now I can just click a dropdown from my computer screen and look at every single appointment book in all nine of my locations. And we have some locations that have call centers to try to streamline the appointment booking process, which only then reduces cost to run the business. So, you know, there’s a lot of little organizations within our large organization that is to hand its own brand, and we actually just all met last week. Anybody who had four or more locations, we are now going to be actually a second time within a year period just to collaborate, share best practices and just kind of not make decisions, just listen to each other. And then with all of that feedback, make decisions, which is really what was, I think, why hand in stone has been so successful as they understand the franchisees are in this every day. Let’s hear what they have to say before we come up with an update to our playbook. And we just continue to thrive off of that feedback and that culture

Lee Kantor: [00:12:32] Now is that part of the playbook that the difference between delegation and abdication? You know, it sounds like you you can delegate, but it’s not something that you can just stroke a check to hand in stone and then say, OK, people go and make this happen, like you still have to kind of be involved in the business. This isn’t a passive investment, right?

Nicholas Marco: [00:12:55] Yeah, no. You have to have a way to inspect what you expect and. I’m like the king of that, I love figuring out how to do that. You know, and I just think in general, I’ve just learned regardless of how good the person is or how much you trust them. If you don’t have that counterbalance, then it just will always quarters corners will inevitably be cut. It’s just like human nature, especially nowadays, because there’s so many directions people are pulled in. So I always come up with here’s the routine responsibility or the as needed responsibility, and here’s how we’re going to make sure we know it got done. I use a project management tool called Asana. It’s amazing, and I kind of run my whole business utilizing it, and it’s exactly that kind of like, OK, we talked about it, I’m going to write it down. And when you do it, you’re going to check it off. So I know it was done and that way, there’s just no, he said. She said there’s no just kind of gray. It’s very black and white,

Lee Kantor: [00:13:55] And all the loops get closed. You don’t have these kind of miscommunications.

Nicholas Marco: [00:14:01] Yeah, it’s hard. I mean, like, I feel like one of the things that’s probably not catching up with this time that we’re in is our memories. You know, I think because we’re throwing so much information at once, our memory just isn’t what it maybe used to be. And so I just write everything down, and even when I’m talking to somebody, I’m typing what we’re talking about just so like we never say, what did we say again, that kind of thing. But you know, it’s just, I find it to be very effective when you operate that way.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:32] And this is where technology can be your friend, and this is where technology can really elevate a brand like hand in stone and separate them from others, because a lot of those loose ends and miscommunications can be handled through technology if you’re doing it right?

Nicholas Marco: [00:14:47] Absolutely. Absolutely. And I will say that’s what’s exciting about connecting with those of the younger generations to try to push them to ownership within our brand because those who have been in the corporate world for a long amount of time and then they come into a brand new business, they’re they’re more hesitant to adapt the technology because it can be intimidating. But I will say I have gotten some longtime executives to just be open minded to like this isn’t just some cool fancy application that young people like this is. This is a game changer. And then they realize, OK, I need this for my sanity.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:26] Now, any advice for an emerging franchise that wants to do better with multi-unit franchisees? Is there anything that there are some dos and don’ts that make that more attractive and more effective for folks that you’ve picked up over the years?

Nicholas Marco: [00:15:45] Sure. Well, I would say one, a big one that I’m just very passionate about is like, are they on top of their financials? And do you understand the financials of the business model that you’re selling? That’s huge. You know, is there support there? You know, take a look at a P&L, especially of your own franchisees. What does it look like? I’ve always said there’s the difference between a franchisee making money in a franchisee, not making money. And if you have too many not making money, you got to be like, fill that hole before anything. And then the ones that are doing well is, you know, don’t just even just have a phone call physically go there like, really, my dad spent a lot of time physically in the hand and stones of not just, of course, our corporate location, because there’s almost like kind of this this this unique feeling in the original locations of a brand that’s sometimes I feel hard to try to give people advice on. They’re always like, Oh, you know, what’s going on in Toms River, our original location? Just like, honestly, it’s just been around so long. It has such a loyal clientele. The brand is so, you know, just well received that it’s that’s hard to emulate physically going into. We went into Arizona very early as a brand and, you know, we’re not just talking to them over the phone, like, go there, see how they operate so that you can when you get information verbally, it can be very different than what’s the reality. And sometimes it’s not because somebody is trying to exaggerate. It’s just hard to get the full picture. So, you know, put a lot of time and focus into that support. I know sometimes franchise owners operate where the support person is maybe spread too thin and you don’t want that early on because you have to identify what’s working and then get everybody on board.

Lee Kantor: [00:17:40] So now as you expand, five hundred is quite the achievement, obviously, and that is special. How are you approaching the growth now or is it just now focusing on these kind of multi-unit franchise owners? Or is it still OK to begin with one and then kind of build out your empire as you kind of gain confidence and gain experience?

Nicholas Marco: [00:18:05] Yeah, I mean, look at the difference between New Jersey, where we have 60 forehand and stones, and I own nine handed stones in that state versus Ohio, where I’m the regional developer, where we have 14. And I know I can have 30. So that’s another 15 markets available. 16, actually. And that’s just the state of Ohio. I know there are other markets throughout the country where we really just have not penetrated at all. And then there are markets where we are heavily recognized, but there are some other markets that we can accommodate. It’s, you know, you think, yes, we all know New Jersey is densely populated, but sixty four locations is a lot and I can tell you they’re they’re very specific strategic markets because the demand for these services are so strong. So even at five hundred, I mean, we have a whole nother 500 plus to go, you know, to really feel like we’re too crowded in the country. So, yeah, it’s just one of the things that we’ve taken pride in is we don’t really look to be known as the fastest growing franchise because it’s hard. If you go too fast to support the franchisees, you know, just because they’re open, then we don’t leave them high and dry. It’s it’s constant support getting them to break even as quickly as we can. That first year is crucial. So we’ve on average opened about 60 locations a year and we’ve kept it around that number purposely. It’s a comfortable, controlled growth.

Lee Kantor: [00:19:41] And now what’s the most rewarding part of the job for you? Is it the, you know, kind of getting another multi unit up and running? Or is it just when that franchisee just calls you up and say, Hey, we just, you know, had a record month?

Nicholas Marco: [00:19:56] Well, on the support side, I can tell you when I see a family that the husband or wife no longer has to work because they’ve not only been able to replace their income but make even more money running this business and seeing how it’s changed the lives of that family. You know, I can think of actually my best friend from childhood. His parents were the original franchisees of our brand. My dad literally sold that deal at their kitchen table, and I actually very bittersweet, just acquired the two locations that they have had since their beginning as a as a franchisee. And, you know, it changed their lives in so many ways, and that has just been so rewarding to be a part of that. And then to add on the acquisitions that I’ve made is I love, especially when a location maybe isn’t doing as well, being able to have acquired it. And you know, it’s just make these little tweaks like the two spas that I just acquired. That was not of the people I just mentioned, but of a of another group of longtime friends. You know, we had already hit a record in monthly sales just last month, and I’ve only owned those spots since June. And it’s just, you know, opening up the floodgates based on what I’ve learned, what wasn’t being done that has kind of been the secret sauce for me. So that’s very fulfilling to as I love seeing the impact of what my team can do based on our own playbook within the hand and stone playbook. You know, I’m always fine tuning.

Lee Kantor: [00:21:38] Well, congratulations on all the success if somebody wants to learn more about the opportunity, what’s the website?

Nicholas Marco: [00:21:44] Yeah, just hand in stone and just click on a franchise at the top and it’ll bring you to our specific site where it gives you the investment opportunity overview. We just there is no harm in talking to a franchise. Frankly, I still do it often. I love learning about the different approaches and business models out there. So whether you’re considering buying a franchise or not, you’re going to learn when you talk to somebody trying to sell you their franchise. And the more you can learn now, then the better position you’ll be to make that decision that I highly recommend you do, which is, you know, be your own boss. Own your own business. Prepare for life after retirement by having another source of income for yourself and hand in stone is a great thing to consider for yourself.

Lee Kantor: [00:22:34] Good stuff. Thank you again for sharing your story. You’re doing important work and we appreciate you.

Nicholas Marco: [00:22:39] You got it. Thank you.

Lee Kantor: [00:22:40] All right, this is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you next time on Franchise Marketing Radio.