From Franchisee to Franchisor: Building a Brand Built to Scale

Intro: Coming to you live from the Business RadioX studio. It’s Franchise Marketing Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of Franchise Marketing Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have Aaron Anderson with Sunrise Social. Welcome.

Aaron Anderson: Oh, thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Man. I am so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Sunrise Social.

Aaron Anderson: Yes. So Sunrise Social is a franchise that I, um, that I created about through, I want to say four years ago. Um, and, you know, we just see evolving and keep continuing to scale.

Lee Kantor: So, uh, how did the idea come about? What got you interested in brunch?

Aaron Anderson: Sure. So back in, um, 2020, I started out as a, a franchisee, which was my first introduction to the restaurant industry. So I started out as a, um, franchisee of the original hot dog factory. And I had about six, like 6 or 7 locations. I believe it was seven actually seven locations of original hot dog factory. Then I became a, um, a franchisee, also of, uh, Rita’s Italian Ice national brand as well. And all of this keep in mind is just during the pandemic. And, you know, once the pandemic hit, we had to figure it out. So all my brick and mortars, I ended up pretty much directing my energy to delivery and takeout. So at that time, I created a vertical called Chef’s Kitchen with a famous chef out of Philadelphia, where we were running five different concepts out of one kitchen, but we had two locations. And it was like from, you know, when I when I got to that point, I understood that, you know, I want to I’ve been an entrepreneur my entire life, but I wanted to kind of be on the other side from being a franchisee to a franchisor, only because the experience that I gained as a franchisee, I understood where I could add value and scale becoming a franchisor. So I said, you know what, let me, you know, develop my own concept. And that’s how I got to, um, I created brunch Aholics and during the process of franchising brunch Aholics, uh, we ran into some issues where it was, uh, trademarking issues. And you know what I said, you know, I could have stuck in there and so forth, but, you know, my attorney advised me like, hey, Aaron, either you can, you know, address this later or now. And I decided to address it now. So I just, you know, changed the name from brunch Alex to Sunrise Social. And here we are today, Sunrise Social. We have two locations, one in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, another in Cherry Hill, new Jersey. And it’s also run by a franchisee as well.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you were deciding, okay, I’m going to be a franchisee. And you had worked in Rita’s and the original Hot Dog Factory. What were some of the other kind of concepts you were looking at before you landed on Sunrise Social? Were you looking at other types of food? Was it always food?

Aaron Anderson: It was. I mean, again, I’ve been an entrepreneur my entire life. But as far as the restaurant industry, you know, it was just more so understanding, you know, the dynamics of brunch and, you know, kind of creating my own lane in there because you understand the economics of, of the world and how everything is going where, you know, people are some people are doing less of, you know, dining at night time and some people are doing less of dining more in the morning time. So you just kind of, you know, get in that lane where that, that brunch lunch concept is, is pretty much creating the lane by itself. So I looked at that and said, I think this is the proper lane to go into.

Lee Kantor: So what were when you were kind of deciding and landing on this, what were kind of the trade offs you were weighing when it comes to this, that concept of brunch? And because the the day for the franchisee is over, you know what, at like 2 or 3:00, they close, it closes then.

Aaron Anderson: Uh, yeah, operating hours are 8 a.m. to 4 p.m.. But I mean, other concepts that I, that I was looking at that I actually created was, um, it was a vegan concept that I created. There was a cheesesteak, um, concept that I also created. So I, I had also, you know, I created a, um, an express concept to where you can kind of get that, that breakfast brunch lunch concept 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So I, I mean, I, I was, I bounced around, but ultimately sunrise social was always the focus and it just pretty much understanding the market.

Lee Kantor: And you like the idea of it being breakfast, lunch and then is there alcohol also.

Aaron Anderson: Depending on depending on the location. Um, it’s an option as a franchisee, whether you want to offer um, liquor or not.

Lee Kantor: So you’re, you’re putting that in the hands of the franchisee.

Aaron Anderson: Yes. But we do again, we, we offer, um, support 100%. So whether you decide to, to offer alcohol or not, we, you know, we, we have the systems in place for it, right?

Lee Kantor: If you’re ready to handle it, if they, if they want to do it.

Aaron Anderson: Yes.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, what about did you have kind of a family recipe? Did you have some go to kind of, um, meals kind of in your head or when you launch this or this was all from scratch.

Aaron Anderson: All from all from scratch. However, I collaborate with chefs from all around the world. And we come up with, you know, they pitch their their best recipes and we just go from there.

Lee Kantor: Did you have any like, hey, I want to have a chicken and waffle. That’s a must have. Some of you guys better figure out a good new way of doing this.

Aaron Anderson: Correct.

Lee Kantor: Yes.

Aaron Anderson: Yes.

Lee Kantor: Was that you?

Aaron Anderson: Yes.

Lee Kantor: You told them that that was for you? Yeah.

Aaron Anderson: Well, I didn’t it wasn’t particularly chicken and waffles. It was just like, hey, you know, I, you know, you give them I give them the backstory on myself and also the brand. Let them know like, hey, we’re breakfast, brunch and lunch. And, you know, I just want you to be creative and come up with what you think that could fit the menu that you know, that other guests would, would love and appreciate and that the, the staff would enjoy preparing.

Lee Kantor: Now, what about the ability to take it, uh, for delivery or to go did that way in any of your menu choices?

Aaron Anderson: Absolutely. I mean, and today’s, you know, today’s society, we we have to factor in, especially from a restaurant tour perspective. You have to factor in that, you know, third party delivery is just here to stay. And they are a large part of um, of the, of the business and, and not even just from a sales perspective, but I think you have to appreciate the marketing aspect that comes with that as long as well.

Lee Kantor: So now how did you kind of. So you planned ahead for, for that? Did, did that change recipes or did it change packaging in order to kind of make sure that it gets to the customer in the right form and fashion?

Aaron Anderson: Sure. When I, when, you know, when we were developing the menu and also when we decided to add menu items and so forth, we always take those things into consideration.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, when you decided to launch, um, were you getting traction right away? Did you realize, hey, I think that this thing’s got legs?

Aaron Anderson: Yeah. I mean, we’ve always, um, you know, every, every concept that I’ve been a part of, as well as creating Sunrise Social, you know, we, we, we, we really believe in the product. We believe in the, and the staff and the team and the culture and all of those things. And I think once you, when you get to that point, you’re going to have traction. And, you know, from a response of from the, the guests that we that we see, we understand that, you know, it’s something that’s, that’s special, unique with a twist and everyone appreciates it.

Lee Kantor: So how do you kind of launch, is there advice you can give when it comes to a launch, especially of a new brand? Um, how do you get kind of bodies through the door and make people aware of it?

Aaron Anderson: Yeah. So I mean, on the other side of the, from the, the, of the business, you have to understand your marketing, and you want to have a really strong marketing team and also understand the market that you are launching in. That’s, that’s very, very vital. You have to understand the market that you’re launching in.

Lee Kantor: So what is the right market for Sunrise Social? What type of demographics and what kind of location is best suited for Sunrise Social?

Aaron Anderson: I would say more of a suburban area outside of any major city, um, with a, with a decent population, with a, a decent level of, um, medium income.

Lee Kantor: And is it strictly dining and takeout or is that the, the way people, um, get it primarily.

Aaron Anderson: I mean, uh, dine in takeout and also we offer delivery on pretty much all.

Lee Kantor: But through the other platforms.

Aaron Anderson: Yes.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, what about when you were when you had a rebrand that just from a name standpoint, and when you went through that, was that like, what’s a learning that you can take from that? Because that was, you know, a hassle and expensive. Um, what, you know, if you were to advise other, other kind of emerging franchise doors like yourself, what would you do differently?

Aaron Anderson: Oh, man. Um, and mind you, this is the first time that I’ve ever, uh, had to rebrand, rebrand anything and, um, you know, tried to avoid it. However, if you, if you have to, you just want to understand, like, for instance, I, I had multiple locations that I had to transform the interior exterior signage, things like that where I, you know, in my mind, genuinely, I thought, okay, I just changed the name and then that’s it. But when you got a rebrand or change all of those things after it was already done, and then you also have to change, you know, alter your menu a little bit. Those are things to take into consideration. And then also, whatever you’ve done from a marketing standpoint, just know that you have to pretty much you have to do that times three, right?

Lee Kantor: Yeah, exactly. And, um, and it was one of those things where you could have fought it, but then it just so it’s such a distraction. Um, when you’re building a brand new brand, I mean, that’s the last thing you need is to spend all that mental energy just dealing with that.

Aaron Anderson: Oh, one 1,000%. I mean, you know, uh, one of the valuable lessons that I, that I did learn is especially when you are talking about building something to scale because, you know, if you build something and you want to have 1 or 2 locations, that’s one thing. But it’s like when you’re building thinking, you know, with the, the mindset of, I’m going to have 2000 or 3000 locations, you definitely want to check the, the trademark and the name and, and all of those things. And yes, my attorney advised me, hey, Aaron, you can go ahead. He even told me, said Aaron, either way, you know, you’ll you’ll be fine. However, I looked at it like, um, a risk versus reward scenario to where if I build this out to a thousand locations and God forbid, I don’t win or anything happens, which because we don’t know, but something happens and I do have to change the name. Could you imagine that you got to reach out to 1000 or 500 franchisees and say, hey, we’re getting ready to make this adjustment and everything that you’ve already done, you just gotta redo it. So for me, it was just like, you know what? By understanding that I wasn’t even, I wasn’t looking at it or all ultimately looking at it just on my end. I looked at it on the end of every franchisee that that I come in contact with that decides to open up a location is that I want to protect their interest as long as mine. So the right decision was just pretty much just changing the name and making sure that everything is trademarked, which it is now, and we can scale with no problems, right?

Lee Kantor: And you don’t have to think about it anymore.

Aaron Anderson: You don’t even have to think about it.

Lee Kantor: Now, if you were to, um, if somebody out there listening has an idea for a concept, what are kind of some of the do’s and don’ts, um, when you’re deciding if it is scalable or not. I mean, you, you’ve been an entrepreneur for a long time, so you probably can probably tell at a glance like, okay, that might have a chance or this definitely doesn’t have a chance.

Aaron Anderson: I mean, if I, you know, if you had a crystal ball, then yes, but I mean, honestly, in today’s time and and the way that the world is moving is moving so fast. So you can, you can, you know, think that your concept can work and it don’t, or you could think that it don’t work and you try it and it actually does. I just think that ultimately, from an entrepreneurial perspective, if you, if you have an idea and you strongly believe in it, I think for your self-fulfillment, which it’ll equate to mean more to you than any amount of money is that you are that you, that you push forward with it and at least try it. And a lot of times, you know, you can, you can try something and it may not work, but that isn’t a sign to give up or quit or anything like that. It’s either you just go a little bit harder or you just create a vertical, or you just make adjustments and learn from your mistakes and just keep, keep trying again. But you know, ultimately, when you’re deciding on creating a concept. You want to do everything. You want to reverse engineer it, so you want to understand what your numbers are going to look like. You want to have a plan. You want to understand what your market going to look like. So all of those things take, you know, take an account of making a decision on whether to move forward.

Lee Kantor: But it sounds like you’re a big believer in take big swings.

Aaron Anderson: Well, you know what? So I’ve again, I’ve always been an entrepreneur, but I think my risk level has changed as I became, as I became more mature to where, you know, I, I used to be like what you would consider a cowboy where I would just, you know, I, I, hey, I’m gonna try it. And if it don’t work, I’ll just get up and knock my feet, you know, dust my, my behind off and try again. However, now it’s just very, it’s just that much more calculated. So I have a great team around me that understands when I tell them an idea, they. You know, we all contribute and do the research, understand markets, demographics, uh, the financial aspect, what the future looks like. So it just, you’re still going to continue to take risks as an entrepreneur. It just has to be just a little bit more calculated. And the more risk you take that do work, you, you take what worked and you and you and you try to amplify it. And then you, you understand what didn’t work and you just try not to do it again.

Lee Kantor: Right? When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. That’s how the song goes. You know, when you start having something now you have something to lose you.

Aaron Anderson: I’ll tell you one thing, and we don’t want to as a as an entrepreneur, you don’t want to take it for granted. But your, your mental and your, you know, your mental health, your physical health, all of those things play a part because I’ve, I’ve, I’ve ran across other, um, entrepreneurs that took losses and just was never able to recover mentally, if that makes sense.

Lee Kantor: Now, what are the qualities you’re looking for? Um, from, uh, a Sunrise Social franchisee. What, what, uh, obviously they need to be financially equipped to open, but what do you look for from, um, you know, kind of traits of, of a, of a good franchisee in your system.

Aaron Anderson: Sure. So depending on the experience level, but we, we, you know, we would love to have franchisees that have restaurant experience. Um, we would like, you know, we own our operator is always a plus. Um, however, this concept was also designed for semi absentee owners as well. We want someone that, um, that believes in the brand and that also has a sense of self accountability and that is just, you know, just understanding the vision and willing to follow the playbook to to make everyone successful.

Lee Kantor: Now are you? So you’re looking for somebody that might be in a market where they, you know, have other food concepts, but they don’t have a, a brunch brand.

Aaron Anderson: Sure. We, we are open to those franchisees as well.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, um, about Sunrise Social, is there a website? What’s the best way to connect?

Aaron Anderson: Yeah. www.ownasunrise.com.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Well, congratulations on all the momentum. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Aaron Anderson: Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate you having me on your platform.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Franchise Marketing Radio.