Lisa Gill with Gill Family Law

Intro: [00:00:04] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Stone Payton: [00:00:15] Welcome to the High Velocity radio show where we celebrate top performers producing better results in less time. Stone Payton here with you this afternoon. Please join me in welcoming to the broadcast with Gill Family Law. Ms. Lisa Gill. How are you?

Lisa Gill: [00:00:33] I’m great.

Stone Payton: [00:00:35] It is a delight to have you on the show. I’ve really been looking forward to this conversation. I got a thousand questions. We’re not going to get to them all, but I think a great place to start might be if you could articulate for me and our listeners mission purpose, what are you and your team really out there trying to do for folks?

Lisa Gill: [00:00:55] Lisa Well, it’s a combination of things, but the main thing I own two businesses. One is a family law law firm. And the main thing my team in that business is trying to do is really help people navigate family law situations in the most kind of holistic way possible. I mean, give people a higher level of service as attorneys recognize that people who are going through family law crisis are going through probably one of the most devastating things they will ever experience, whether it’s divorce or custody, battle and practice law with compassion. I’ve been a litigant. I was a litigant before I went to law school. It’s one of the decisions, one of the things that happened in my life that pivoted me towards going to law school. And I really understand what it’s like to put your life or your future into the hands of an attorney. And it’s a very scary process to have to fully rely upon another person to help you navigate the legal system.

Stone Payton: [00:01:57] I would think that that would be incredibly rewarding work. What are you enjoying the most about it? What do you find the most rewarding?

Lisa Gill: [00:02:07] It is incredibly rewarding work. I think for me, and I’ll share a little bit of my background, I personally went through a tax audit while owning a small business, and that was one of the first experiences I ever had with the legal system, so to speak, or having a lawyer represent me. I really feel like the most rewarding thing and I grew from that experience tremendously, is seeing people realize go from somebody who’s scared and doesn’t know how they’re possibly going to overcome the situation they’re in. And to somebody who is empowered and they’re probably stronger for the experience. And so really seeing people have life transformation going through a legal situation, I think that’s the most rewarding thing, is really seeing people get through that process, get out, get to the other side and be better for the experience that they’ve had.

Stone Payton: [00:03:07] So on the business law side of your practice. Talk me through, if you would, a little bit about the work. Like how does it start? I would I would think maybe with some sort of initial conversation about the facts of the case, the merits of the case. Just kind of walk us through that, what that what the work looks like, if you would.

Lisa Gill: [00:03:27] Sure. I mean, yeah, you know, you initially you have a consultation with an attorney, whether it’s in a family law situation or any type of litigation. And sometimes you may be anticipating litigation. So you might be anticipating that there’s going to be a legal issue and trying to get advice and somebody helping you navigate what you may or may not need to do based on the fact that you anticipate there’s going to be litigation or you may actively already be involved in the litigation, and that’s why you’re seeking out a lawyer. When we start working with people, I think our number one goal is to help educate them on how they can positively impact their situation, because people often feel helpless when they’re in the legal system. And especially, like I said, you know, you’re basically entrusting your legal team is going to do what you need them to do, but you might not really know how to analyze that. So I mean, I would compare it to like a mechanic. If you don’t know a lot about cars and you’re taking your car to the mechanic, he says a lot of things and he’s going to charge you a price. And you’re saying, okay, I hope that’s going to fix everything. And and I hope he’s not leading me astray. But you’re really entrusting that person and their area of expertise. And so that’s the biggest thing we do from the outset is try to help people understand the process in layman’s terms and also help them understand what things they can be doing to feel like they are productive and helping. And a lot of that has to do with gathering your own proof or helping. Help. Help. Allowing them to help you understand the personalities involved. Right. Understanding who’s the other person, the other litigant, your spouse or.

Speaker4: [00:05:08] Whoever the litigation involves.

[00:05:10] Help us understand that person. Help us understand context and and help them understand how they can take an active role. The other thing I think we try to do is try to make our processes very client centric where everything is not, Hey, we’re open 8 to 5 because I just don’t think that’s realistic in modern day time and we need you to meet with us during those hours, which predominantly most of your clients probably also work, right? Those are all their working hours and that’s how they’re paying you. So you’re we’re trying really hard to make it where we have like document portals that people can log on and put, you know, upload documents at any time, day or night when it’s more convenient for them rather than insisting on in-person meetings all the time. We also, of course, use video conferencing and we and we have remote notaries. I mean, we do a lot of things so that all of the little micro stressors of being involved in litigation too, are lessened on our clients.

Stone Payton: [00:06:09] So the illustration that you used with the mechanic, I have to confess that’s exactly how I feel when I take a car into the mechanic. But I got to believe that that’s like tenfold. It’s in such all of these situations, I would think would be emotionally charged. Conflicting feelings. And you’re in a fog. I mean, you really need to be working with someone who will listen to you and you feel like you can trust because you’ve also got to you got to open up a little bit about your situation for you to be able to serve me to the best. Right, right, right.

Lisa Gill: [00:06:43] You’ve got to feel comfortable. Um, one of my first mentors said we’re like a I’m trying to remember exactly, but I think it was basically like a gyno psychiatrist. And I was thinking, What? And she was like, you know, they’ve got to feel comfortable saying all the things they would say to a gynecologist plus a psychiatrist or whatever. You know, it’s the same. It’s going to have that level of openness for us to navigate. And you’ve got to make people feel comfortable, You know, the minute they step in that I really need to hear everything and get it all transparently, because without it I can’t guide you. And kind of like, I feel like we also try to tell our teenage children, you know, you need to tell me what really happened because nobody’s going to go to bat for you more than I am. And that’s the trust, the relationship I try to establish with clients really early on. And then the other part of it, and it’s the truth, right? I’m not just saying it to make them feel comfortable. You’re not going to say anything I haven’t heard 13 times on Monday and I’ll hear 16 more on Friday. So there’s nothing you’re going to come in with for the most part, in a family lawyer’s office that they haven’t heard, aren’t familiar with and can’t help you navigate.

Stone Payton: [00:07:50] Now, have you found yourself in your practice gravitating more to representing females or just you take them as they come? Or have you found like a specialty or a niche within this already kind of niche business I guess.

Lisa Gill: [00:08:07] I would say it’s probably business owners because not necessarily male or female. I think a lot of business owners, you know, kind of entrepreneurial, especially spirited people, they they have a different outlook. And I think the reason that probably is, is because that’s similar to my outlook. And the experience I was talking about before is what led me into law. Even though I ended up doing family law, I didn’t think that’s what I was going to end up doing initially. And that was a that really was a market pivot because I did a lot of real estate and construction litigation at first, and that dried up during the last recession. So I have a lot of knowledge from owning a business, having gone through an audit. A lot of people who are business owners when they are going and I did end up going through a divorce after the audit. But a lot of people who are going through divorce are concerned about audit or they’re concerned about ever being able to resell a business or leaving their family business intact. If they’re small business owners, they have a lot of different concerns that I feel like I understand and can navigate. And so I think that’s how that’s probably the niche within the niche that I attract, I think. And that also has to do with my community involvement. I’m involved in the chamber, I’m involved in a lot of organizations that support small business owners like myself. So I end up meeting a lot of people who are small business owners, and when they realize my life experience and my background, that kind of lends itself to those predominantly being my clients.

Stone Payton: [00:09:45] Yeah, Well, and it’s certainly what you’re describing about your personal experience, having lived through that. For me, for me individually, it builds immediate trust and credibility and I would even say authority in both of those domains family law and business law. And I have a family and a business, I got to say, at least, and maybe you would alleviate this as soon as we sat down and you walked me through it. But I would have, I think, some concerns about exposing my family or my business family, you know, like airing our dirty laundry or just. Yeah, I would want to safeguard. Can you speak that to that a little bit? Like.

Lisa Gill: [00:10:21] Yeah. So I mean, I’ve been I’ve been in this industry for 20 years and I’m, I’m in a national organization, the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers. One of the things I know you’re in Atlanta and so, for instance, Georgia has already adopted an arbitration act so that people who are going through family law litigation can arbitrate those claims. And arbitration offers a totally different type of confidentiality and the ability to prevent, like you said, airing our dirty laundry or having your business be part of a public court record. We also have mediation as an option. But in mediation, both parties have to agree on the outcome and arbitration. Someone acting as a private arbitrator sits and can be the decision maker. They can make a decision where you have issues that you cannot reach a consensus on. So I am a big proponent of arbitration. I do think it allows small business owners especially to have an avenue, because even even a spouse who may not be a principal may not own the business. They don’t want to negatively impact the person’s income earning capacity. They also might not want to negatively impact the family business because it may be a business they see their sons and daughters inheriting later. And so everybody wants to keep that intact. And that’s why I am a big proponent of arbitration.

Stone Payton: [00:11:50] You mentioned community, and I’m not surprised at all that you are involved in the in the community. But I’d like to hear a little bit more about your take on like why it’s so important to you personally and maybe even from a, I don’t know, counseling, mentoring perspective, if and if and why you would recommend add to professional services be to be practitioners out there in the marketplace like yourself, like if and why it’s important to to be, you know, a real, a genuine, visible, tangible part of your local community.

Lisa Gill: [00:12:26] A lot of reasons, I think. Anybody who owns their own business or any kind of solo endeavor or small business, you get blinders, you know, like a horse. You stay in a tunnel vision space because sometimes you feel like, I’m not going to be able to stay abreast of all the decisions I need to make in a day and all the things I’m responsible for if I don’t do that. And the problem with that is you can learn so much from a single conversation with another business owner in comparison to just yourself trying to read articles or figure it out on the fly. And then the other part of that is I feel like we have a different opportunity for connection when we contribute in our own communities. So both I like engaging in things like, you know, like your local chamber because like I said, having these conversations with other small business owners, a lot of times it doesn’t matter what business you’re in, you’re all going through similar things, or at least some things are similar, right? We all have my payroll processing company. I’m not really, you know, I don’t like or I do like or what is yours Like, you know, there’s all these things that are similar no matter what your industry is.

Lisa Gill: [00:13:42] And then the other piece is. As passionate as we might be about our businesses, we have to we have to connect to something else. We can get burnt out. So I think having some kind of thing where you’re giving back, even if it’s just mentoring other small business owners or doing things at your local schools, it. It gives you a different it hits a different place on the reward. You know, part of your brain. I think that just just being successful at business doesn’t hit. And it keeps that that balance. I don’t believe in balance the way I hear people talking about it nowadays. I’ve never experienced that kind of work life balance. I don’t think most small business owners have. I’ve experienced that there are seasons in your life and your your energy pivots to different things and that feels balanced to you. But what I’m talking about, what you’re talking about contributing and being engaged in your local community, it does help balance that. Like I said, I think it just hits a different reward receptor in your brain.

Stone Payton: [00:14:48] Well, it certainly sounds like you’ve had the benefit of one or more mentors throughout your career that have helped you navigate this. Always changing, I’m sure. Terrain, Yeah.

Speaker4: [00:15:01] Yes. Yes, I have.

Stone Payton: [00:15:04] And you’re enjoying serving in that capacity for other people, even outside the scope of your work. It sounds like you’re you’re also enjoying mentoring other people in the community on all kinds of things that come up, it sounds like.

Lisa Gill: [00:15:19] Yes, I do. I find it very rewarding. Um, in fact, I was kind of out of breath when we started this because I was on a panel speaking to the Miss Teen and Miss Tennessee contestants. There’s a pageant here in Memphis qualifier being held. And so I, I love speaking to groups. It’s, you know, it’s not just women. And I love getting other people’s feedback. And I always feel like that’s just kind of the pay it forward. I’ve I’m a pretty plucky person and I have definitely gotten most of my mentors by literally just walking up to people I did not know but that I admired and saying, you know, would you help me? Would you be willing to talk to me? Would you be willing to have lunch with me? And I my experience at least has been the answer to that is usually yes. You know, you have to be willing to ask. But and then once you have had that experience, once somebody has mentored you, you want to give that back. Because you know how much, like I said, a 15 minute conversation can change everything or can give you so much information that it would have taken you 15 years to learn on your own?

Stone Payton: [00:16:34] That is so consistent with my own experience. And I, I find that it still finds a way to come back to you. Like you’re trying to. You’re trying to give back and give out and you’re doing it for the and then lo and behold, and maybe not always in a straight line. Right. But it somehow some way makes its way back to you, right?

Lisa Gill: [00:16:52] Yes, I would agree with that. Yeah, 100%. And I you know, like like almost like a boomerang. Like whatever you put out comes back to you. Whatever you’re projecting is what you’re receiving.

Stone Payton: [00:17:04] Yeah. So how does the whole sales and marketing thing work for a business? A practice like yours? Do you still find yourself kind of out shaking the trees a little bit? Or is it is the business matured to a point where it’s it’s just managing the incoming opportunities and taking the work that that you want?

Lisa Gill: [00:17:26] Well, I mean, like we talked about, there were seasons. I do feel like I am in a season now where I am managing the work that I want and mentors that I have have helped me see that that’s the time I’m in. You know, you feel so fearful when you start any business venture, especially as a sole principal without partners, you have employees relying upon you and their families that you maybe take more work than you need. But you don’t know that at first. I’ve had mentors work with me, especially in the last few years, to say Now it’s time to be more selective, and I have done that. But there is still a component to marketing. It’s different now than it was when I first started at My industry is different, you know, because not even that long ago it was probably 70s 80s. Lawyers weren’t even permitted to do any type of quote unquote marketing.

Speaker4: [00:18:22] Well, that’s what I thought.

Stone Payton: [00:18:23] So that’s changed, I guess. But there was a time. Wow.

Lisa Gill: [00:18:28] And so it is different how we market, but most of it has to do with. You know, your website or speaking engagements. I try to take speaking engagements that include continuing legal education seminars, and I look at that as more of a marketing. And it’s educational for me. It’s always good to fine tune your public speaking skills if you’re a trial lawyer and work on them and keep them because we don’t go to trial. We do in family law more frequently than other areas of practice. But we don’t go to trial like we did when I first started 15 years ago. So it’s always good to do that. And then I also think I look at that as marketing, even though it’s not how you would traditionally think about marketing.

Stone Payton: [00:19:13] You know, early in the conversation you kind of touched on and we kind of chuckled about it. But it’s true, you know, sometimes kind of filling that therapist role, right? Like wearing that therapist hat. Yeah. I would think that you too, though. You’ve got to have some financial chops, like you’ve got to or maybe you you are connected with some people who have specific expertise in that domain. But there’s a real financial aspect to both the family law and this audit and succession and all that. So you’re talking about money, you know, more often than not too, aren’t you?

Speaker4: [00:19:47] Yeah, and.

Lisa Gill: [00:19:49] I think I do. I mean, I, I like most small business owners, I’ve learned a lot of things in hindsight or on the fly. I learned a lot through that audit process. And to be honest, if I’d gone to law school first, I probably would have never started any business, you know? And I think most people, if they had 100% view, you know, of all the risks they were taking, they probably wouldn’t. And then I’ve I work really hard to though, to encourage clients if they don’t already have a true CPA or a true wealth advisor and a banker, a banker that they really know, you know, somebody at your bank, that if you call and you’re like, I want to talk to Deborah, she knows you and you’re going to be able to ask her questions. And I try to get that set up early on because I do think I’m pretty savvy and sophisticated, but I’m not an expert in everything. There’s always going to be something, and we deal with a lot of financial pivoting, especially in divorce cases, especially in cases with small businesses. Now, when you deal with small business owners, a lot of them have that kind of team already in place. But if they don’t or if one spouse is saying, you know, well, I went with my wife’s brother in law when we first got married, but now I’m thinking I mean, my wife’s brother, my brother in law, and now I’m thinking he might not be my CPA after the divorce. And sometimes sometimes he might be, you know? But I’m saying, okay, yeah, well, it’s time to put your team together. Then we need to start getting it together now.

Stone Payton: [00:21:17] Yeah, well, talk to me, if you would, a little bit. Passions outside the scope of your work. My listeners know that I like to. To hunt and fish and travel. Is there anything that you sort of dive into outside the scope of your work?

Lisa Gill: [00:21:30] I love to travel, but I really would tell you that my easiest thing to kind of break away at present is golf.

Speaker4: [00:21:39] Oh, wow.

Stone Payton: [00:21:41] Yeah, I would not find that relaxing at all. That looks like it takes a lot of skill.

Speaker4: [00:21:46] Okay, I.

Lisa Gill: [00:21:46] Think it does. But here’s here’s why. You would probably be shocked to know that a lot of lawyers have problems staying inside their own head. Um, so overthinking.

Speaker4: [00:22:00] Things is hard.

Lisa Gill: [00:22:03] But that’s why it’s relaxing to me because I can’t be running ten background thoughts. I have to be focusing on what I’m doing and I am lucky enough to live in a part of the world where when we go play, it’s far enough from an interstate or any noise, you know that city city noise. So it’s just relaxing to me.

Speaker4: [00:22:25] Well.

Stone Payton: [00:22:26] That’s important, though, isn’t it? Like if I were to share an idea with a budding entrepreneur or someone who’s trying to get something off the ground, I would encourage them, you know, to you got to give yourself a little bit of that white space or whatever. You got to you got to give yourself a chance to recharge. And don’t you think.

Speaker4: [00:22:47] Oh, yeah.

Lisa Gill: [00:22:48] Your best. And there’s plenty, I think, information out there now that you are 100% have to do it. That’s where I feel like all your creativity comes back. We get in a little bit of, you know, when we’re moving really fast pace now we start to feel like we’re superhuman because we’re like, Wow, I’m making decisions at an extremely fast pace and I feel like they’re pretty sound, but you don’t really get into that creative space of solutions. And I feel like you really don’t create space for epiphanies unless you’re getting into that. Like you said, the white space or the, you know, the less distraction where you’re just one track thought.

Stone Payton: [00:23:29] Yeah, I thought I read in my notes. In fact, I know I did because I got one sitting here, right? You’re the incoming incoming chair to the Tennessee Bar Association of Memphis, if I got that right.

Speaker4: [00:23:42] Yeah. So?

Lisa Gill: [00:23:43] Well, I am a director for the Memphis Bar Association on their board, and I am the incoming chair for the Tennessee Bar Association’s family Law section, so that I in that position, specifically with the Tennessee Bar Association, what we do is review and propose legislation impacting families and impacting the area of family law. I really have enjoyed that and I’m really excited about the upcoming chair position because there is a lot there’s a lot of legislation that nobody even, you know, people don’t even aren’t even aware is pending. Sometimes if if the news outlets don’t pick it up, people don’t even know there’s about to be a sweeping legislative change and how it’s going to impact them. And that is definitely something I’m passionate about, is helping people have transparency and a realization about what’s pending and how they could impact the outcome of legislative legislation being passed. For instance, in the case where I was talking about the audit, we owned a restaurant and there was a tax. They referred to it as the sin tax in Tennessee because it was going to tax tobacco, alcohol and any products high in sugar. So it was people who owned vending machines and people in the hospitality industry. And then, of course, people that may be in gas stations, I think they were probably the most heavily impacted. And it did get picked up by news outlets, but it was late in the process and we really didn’t understand exactly how much impact it was going to have. And so that really, you know, like I said, that process made me really aware. You have to if you’re going to be in business, you need to be aware of legislation pending and its potential impact on your the way you do business, your industry. I mean, a piece of legislation can completely eliminate an area of industry.

Stone Payton: [00:25:39] Yeah, what a marvelous way to have genuine impact. I don’t know where you find the time, but bless your heart. God, we are lucky to have you looking out for us. No, there’s. Yeah, because you’re really. You’ve got your finger on the pulse and you’re able to voice concerns and and know what’s going on before it. Before it can hurt us. Yeah, that is fantastic. Well, before we wrap, I would love, if we could, to share just a couple of a pro tips. I call them and let’s take each of those situations, if we could. You know, whether we’re we’re we’ve got that audit notice which knock on wood, I never have or we’re in like that family law situation. Maybe we’re looking at a divorce, you know, maybe some do’s. And you know something? We should do something. We should not do something. We should read. Just and look. Gang number one, pro tip, if you’re in that in that area is pick up the phone and call somebody on Lisa’s team. But yeah, but short of that, like are there some things like, look, whatever you do, don’t do this or, you know, make sure go do these two things and then call me or Yeah.

Lisa Gill: [00:26:46] I think probably one thing I would say is we are so terrified. I mean, I know I was terrified of calling an attorney and terrified of the expense involved. And I would just say hindsight is so much more expensive when it comes to a legal issue. A consultation with an attorney might give you complete peace of mind. And that’s much less expensive than than moving forward too far into something that where, like you said, like, you know, there’s a legal issue, it’s much less expensive to just go ahead and consultation. I’ve had consultations with people plenty of times where I’ve said, I don’t think you have any legal. I mean, there’s I get that somebody threatening you and whatever. I read the letter and it may even be a letter from another attorney, but I’m telling them I don’t they don’t really have a good legal position, a solid legal position, and they may just be threatening you with letters to say if you pay or whatever. And that didn’t cost them anything. That was just a consultation. And but that’s that’s that peace of mind is.

Speaker4: [00:27:47] Well worth the cost of the consultation.

Lisa Gill: [00:27:49] And if they’re going to say yes, I think you have an issue. What they can also tell you is here’s what you don’t need to be doing just in case this does turn into an issue. And here’s what you need to be documenting. That’s the biggest thing in case you have to defend yourself. So that that would be the biggest pro tip is that you don’t have to go hire an attorney, fully retain them. But you if you have an issue, it’s much less expensive to go ahead and obtain a consultation, then not do that. And then the other thing I would say is for a pro tip. You know, pay attention to how you obtain referrals when it comes to legal counsel. Um, either somebody had a good experience with that attorney and you’re aware of that, or you’ve asked an attorney who might not might not practice in that area. But I routinely have people who are asking me for attorneys in different areas. And I take it so seriously when somebody asks for a referral, I do not just throw out anybody’s name. If I’m not sure if somebody’s practicing that area, I’m probably going to call 5 or 6 people or text them until I get somebody that I think is a sound referral. So I think that’s a big thing is pay attention to who you’re going to at the outset and pay attention to your local judicial elections. A lot of times when you’re electing local judges, they have a long term trajectory in their career. They may end up on your appellate court or your the Supreme Court of your state. And sometimes and people know this because they see a lot from the Supreme Court of the United States Now. But sometimes those opinions that they are issuing do serve to create a legal precedent, just like a statute or just like something the legislator is doing. So you really you need to pay attention to those elections as business owners, I think.

Stone Payton: [00:29:43] I am so glad I asked. That’s a marvelous counsel on both fronts. All right. If someone would like to reach out, have a conversation with you or someone on your team or some in some other fashion, sort of tap into your work and learn more, What’s the best way for them to do that? Whatever you feel like is appropriate, whether it’s a website or an email address or a LinkedIn, but I want to make sure they can they can tap into your work and connect with you if they need to.

Lisa Gill: [00:30:14] I really probably do think it’s LinkedIn because I share things there from both my law firm and also my consulting business. Look on our website, you know, as far as the family law, you know, ww dot g i l l a m. Law.com.

Stone Payton: [00:30:33] Lisa, it has been an absolute delight having you on the show. You are clearly doing important work. Please keep it up. Don’t be a stranger. We’d love to, you know, maybe connect with you again sometime and get any updates. I suspect that things change plenty and plenty fast in your world.

Speaker4: [00:30:52] Yes.

Lisa Gill: [00:30:53] For all business owners, I’m sure that’s true for you too.

Speaker4: [00:30:56] And you’re pivoting all the time, but we.

Stone Payton: [00:30:58] Sincerely appreciate you. Thank you so much for joining us.

Lisa Gill: [00:31:02] Thank you for having me.

Stone Payton: [00:31:04] All right. Until next time, This is Stone Payton for our guest today, Lisa Gill with Gill Family Law and everyone here at the Business Radio X family saying we’ll see you in the fast lane.