The Intersection of Law and Business: Strategies for Effective IP Protection

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have the managing partner of Hoffman and Baron, Daniel Scola. Welcome.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Yeah. Thank you. Lee. Glad to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Hoffman and Baron. How you serving folks?

Daniel Scola Jr.: Well, Hoffman and Baron is an intellectual property law firm, so we are exclusively devoted to protecting people’s ideas, basically. So that that entitles includes patents, trademarks, copyrights, trade secrets and those sorts of things. And those are real assets that are involved in so many people’s businesses, so many products, so many processes. And people don’t realize how often the intellectual property comes, uh, comes their way. It’s it’s involved in almost everything.

Lee Kantor: Now, how important is it for an entrepreneur? I would imagine it’s different depending on your industry. But if you’re an entrepreneur, like, say, even in the legal field that you are in. How important is it to properly protect your intellectual property?

Daniel Scola Jr.: Yeah, it’s it’s extremely important because if you think about what, uh, you know, really gives us the basis for, for really being an entrepreneur, it’s it’s your ideas, right? And it’s, it’s your ability to take your ideas and translate them into either workable, meaningful commercial assets. And that could be, you know, in the form of products you sell or a service that you sell. And and that’s what, you know, that’s how you, you actually develop, uh, the economy. So it’s very important. And investors like to know when they give money to startups, for example, or to even large, you know, loans to large companies. They want to know their money is somehow backed by some sort of an asset. Now, in, you know, there’s real property assets like your house, and then there’s the intangible assets, which are the intellectual property assets. So your ideas then get protected in a form which gives you patent rights or trademark rights. And those things can be sold just like you sell a car or just like you sell a house. And investors love to know that there is something that’s securing their interest.

Lee Kantor: Now, if you’re, uh, that makes sense. Like if you’re in a technology firm or in healthcare or you’ve invented something, I can understand protecting it. But if you’re an entrepreneur and in, um, maybe a trusted advisor and your service or your work is not a thing or is tangible. Is it a good move to protect like every everything that you’ve done in that aspect? Is that even possible? Because things can change, like next week, it may not be as relevant and we’ve changed it a bit. So now do I have to protect that? Like when when does it end for those folks?

Daniel Scola Jr.: It’s a really good question. I mean there there are things that some industries, uh, change so fast that you have to look at. Well, does it make sense if this is not going to be around in in the next six months, what should I do? Because it’s all about, you know, having a monopoly on that particular idea. Or it could be something like involved in a trademark, which, you know, you can change your product um, many times, but have the same trademark. So let’s say you have a Nike makes a thousand different shoes and they have different models and so forth. But the Nike name stays the same. So it it goes over across their all their, their shoe line, their clothing lines. So that sort of thing, you know, that’s something where if they didn’t protect that name, that name is more valuable than, than anything else they have. So that’s an example or the copyright stuff, you know, uh, let’s say you, you have a very particular process of doing something or you’re training and so forth and so on. There are training materials and you want to copyright those training materials because those aren’t going to change. Maybe the way you explain it might change, or maybe the way you interact, um, you know, might change, but the, the actual, um, you know, training materials themselves won’t. Um, so these are things that, you know, if you’re if things are going to change all the time, then probably you have to look at a different mechanism. And maybe you keep maybe you keep some things, uh, trade secret. Um, but the chances are you’re better off trying to get some protection somewhere. Um, and that’s why you need an intellectual property adviser to say you don’t need it here or that’s already known. Um, and you can’t protect things that are already known. Obviously, it’s got to be something that that is, uh, you’re bringing to the table. That’s that’s new.

Lee Kantor: So now, in your role in the firm, are you primarily doing the work of helping people protect their intellectual property, or do you also help in maybe growing the business and, um, you know, business development kind of things?

Daniel Scola Jr.: Well, they’re kind of intertwined, uh, intertwined rather. Um, and the reason I say that is if you’re really going to do well and give a, you know, your clients a full service on intellectual property, I think you have to know, uh, four things. You have to know something about their business, because if you’re going to say, I’m going to protect you, you know, the the ideas of your business that you’re coming up with, you know, either the new trademarks or the new new copyrighted stuff that you’re doing or the new inventions. You have to know how that fits in with your business. So that kind of is really related to the business development, and you need to know what is your future plan. Like where’s your company going? Because I want to make sure that I capture in intellectual property some of the future if I can, so I can get a monopoly around a piece of that as well. It’s not just the present thing. Let’s let’s look, you know, is this going to be 5 or 10 years down the line? Can I capture some of that here? Yeah. So I do think it, it, uh, it relates not just to the present, but also business development.

Lee Kantor: Now, you recently were, uh, featured in a book, uh, titled Be That Lawyer 101 Top Rainmaker Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Can you talk about how that came about and why it was important for you to be a contributor?

Daniel Scola Jr.: Yeah, I mean, I there’s a this author, Steve Fretzin, who’s, who’s also a lawyer. Is he, he really specializes in, um, you know, training, uh, lawyers how to deal with getting new clients and business and what our clients really looking for and what he liked about, um, my approach. And that’s why he he contacted me, was that my approach to business development in the IP space is I’m not really keen on the pitch, you know, like pitching something to a client with, with cookie cutter answers. And this is bragging about, you know, how how good our firm is and credentials. I’m not that’s not my, you know, my main, um, focus when I’m looking to I don’t give it much weight when I’m looking to to business development. What I look for is I find out what client’s needs are. And so as that’s part of what he wrote about in it’s called Beyond the Pitch. Is the section of the book that that he, um, he interviewed me for, and then he, he put in his book, um, you find out what clients need, and then you, you give them something for free. If you, you know, if you offer some ways that you’ve solved similar problems to other people, you know, to other clients, you have, uh, oftentimes that resonates really well with, with potential new clients. And you can build up credibility by, you know, giving something first. You get a long term relationship, hopefully out of it. Um, so it’s not about making the deal in the first place and, you know, telling you about how great you are. It’s about saying, what are your needs? And I have some thoughts about, you know, those kinds of needs or, you know, I’ve addressed these needs and other clients. It’s very interesting. You know, maybe you could try an approach like this. And then the client says, oh, gosh, uh, do you do you think you could do that for me? And that that’s a very good approach. And it builds trust long term because that’s what you’re really looking for right.

Lee Kantor: Now in, in the in the legal world, if you’re an attorney, are you responsible for kind of generating your own clients or is that something somebody else on the firm does? And then all you do is kind of the law part.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Well, that’s an interesting, uh, question actually, because it depends on on the model of the firm. Um, you know, some law firms have business development, you know, people that are attorneys. That’s all they do is business development. But, uh, that’s not my approach. Uh, I think every attorney has to view themselves. That’s in it’s in an IP firm. At least in my firm, they have to view themselves as a, a little cog in a separate a separate little business person, and they have to do what the bigger firm also does. And that is you have to build relationships with clients and bring in work. Now the issue is whether you are good enough with clients, with people to do that. Some people are are not as good because we all have to be scientists. In my area, they’re both scientists, and you have to have a law degree. And the combination of science and law, sometimes it doesn’t make the most, uh, you know, congenial type of combination. And some people are not comfortable, you know, if you’re used to being in a laboratory all the time, maybe that’s because you would prefer to be there than than out meeting people. And like, being the sales force, there is a sales component to representing yourself, you know, as a member of the firm that you got to sell yourself in addition to the firm a little bit, but you do it not by talking about how great you are, you are, but that’s a responsibility every attorney has. They must they must develop business if they’re going to be in it long term. Otherwise they could work for a corporation. Don’t be in private practice.

Lee Kantor: Now, is that something that’s taught in law school, like do do people who are going to be a lawyer understand that a portion of their day has to be spent in growing a business? Because like you said, it’s you’re you’re an entrepreneur, in essence, just as part of a bigger entity.

Daniel Scola Jr.: You’re you’re correct. It’s not it’s not taught in law school. Um, I often thought about teaching or pitching, not pitching. That’s a I don’t like the word pitch. And I just told you why I don’t pitch, but I suggesting to to, uh, law school, uh, and letting me teach a course which actually talks about, uh, that, that business development aspect. And it’s really not about how much law you do or how much science, which in my area you have to know both. It’s it’s about being able to understand people and what is their readiness level to hear certain things. You the assumption is you know enough about science and law, otherwise you wouldn’t be in this area. That’s that’s a basic assumption. Sometimes it’s wrong, but usually that’s what people look for. And then they want to know, well, do I do I does this person connect with me well? Do they communicate well? Do they understand my needs? Are they going to be responsive? The human connection? They don’t teach that in law school. In fact, you know, most of it is. Well, you know, if you want to have you’re going to have an adversary. And this is how you approach an adversary. Well, clients are not adversaries. And so they really don’t teach how to go about attracting clients. It’s a it’s a problem. I don’t know any law schools that do it. Maybe there are some because obviously there’s lots of curriculums out there. But um, I don’t know any.

Lee Kantor: So what advice would you give a young lawyer, um, who is kind of buying what you’re selling in terms of I have to treat this as I’m an entrepreneur, I’m a business owner, and I have to at some point go out and, um, identify, persuade, uh, another business person to, you know, use our firm. Like, what are some of the do’s and don’ts or some of the, the things they should be thinking about as they, you know, put on their rainmaker hat?

Daniel Scola Jr.: Yeah. They it’s a it’s a good question that that everyone, every one going into law should have an answer for. And I would suggest that, you know, because of the current, uh, sort of trend to not get personal connections as much and you do more things over text and you do less phone work, you do less in-person person meetings. It’s all email. I would suggest, you know, going the other way, going back to trying to get a human connection, get get a short time meeting, get a lunch with someone, don’t even talk about work, create a relationship, go to meetings, you know, go meet people as much as you can. You know, ask someone to lunch. Do something other than just electronically communicate with them. Because now you’re in in the whole mass of noise, everything. You know. How many emails do we get a day? You know, you can’t even look at them all sometimes. So if you’re just relying on the typical text and email communication, I don’t think it’s going to work. Your chances are greatly decreased. Make a phone call, you know, go out and meet somebody. Establish the relationship, the human relationship, because people will only work really long term with people that they know and like and trust. So it’s about this keep getting an ecosystem of trusted people. Um, So, so so get out there. You know, the news, the new people, you know, the real brand new associates.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Li they they have a it’s tough because they come in and they trying to learn about what it is they’re supposed to do, you know, on the legal end. And so they okay, so they know some science and they know some law. But we all know that you know nothing until you’ve practiced and made mistakes and get a, you know, you’re really an apprentice. You have someone mentoring it. And so you think, well, I don’t know enough to go out and attract clients. Why would they come to me? I don’t have the experience. And I tell them, yeah, but you you have a personality. You have, uh, you know, you present. Well, you have someone, something you can say about, you know, whatever it is you might have in common. So create the relationship because eventually you’re going to have the experience and people are going to say, oh, I know you. I’ve met you a number of times. Oh, I like you. It’s. You know, it doesn’t matter how much, you know when you create a relationship. It’s that’s why you’re doing it. You’re not. You’re not out there pitching. Hey, we’re a great firm. I’m a great lawyer. Hire me. You know that’s not the way to do it. And that’s what I tell them. Get out of your comfort zone.

Lee Kantor: Is that kind of a tough wedding for some of these folks? Because in their head, they thought the law was one thing. And now you’re telling them I’m also a salesperson, and I don’t know if I thought I was buying that when I got this degree.

Daniel Scola Jr.: You know, it’s so true. And you and probably 50 to 60% of the people that go into this area, into the legal area, fit into that category of not being comfortable. But, you know, as you know, sales is is, you know, you have to be truthful and you have to be honest and you have to, you know, be able to connect. But I think if you’re going to be good in business, you need those things anyway. I mean, there’s plenty of room for people who are sitting and just doing the work. You need people like that. But if you’re going to be an entrepreneur and you’re going to build a business, you’re not going to be in that category.

Lee Kantor: And would those people be less likely to, like, make partner? Is that some of the qualities that a partner has is they are able to generate clients?

Daniel Scola Jr.: No question about it. Absolutely. Now there are partners and there they’re really called working partners. They’re not they’re not partners who are client getters or, you know, they’re they’re not really entrepreneur related. They’re not rainmakers. There’s a place for them as well. But they have they have less leverage in usually in the businesses because without your book of business is really the key and the and the leverage you have um, in any law firm And, you know, I’m looking for some partners right now and there’s plenty of guys that would like to come, but they don’t have any business. They want me to feed them work, and I would. I won’t do that. I want them to come with business and we’ll help them develop the business. So yeah, you’re right, you have less. I say that to any lawyer. It doesn’t matter not just the IP lawyer, but your your client relationships and your book of business. And the reason people come is because of you. That’s all your leverage is in a law firm.

Lee Kantor: So it’s the totality of what you know, along with who you’re connected with, what relationships, how strong those relationships are. They, you know, are they going to follow you to this new law firm if you make a move like all those things are part of the algorithm you’re using when you’re looking for kind of the next hire over there.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Absolutely. Yeah. That’s it. You got it.

Lee Kantor: And that seemed I mean, again, I, would imagine young people out there that are in law school are thinking, well, I’m learning the law. This is hard. There’s a lot to learn. I’m going to be great at this. And they think their job is going to end there, but it’s really not. That’s just kind of table stakes, it sounds like.

Daniel Scola Jr.: It’s absolutely true. And I think the more people understand this, the easier it will be to make a decision. Do I go into this or not? Uh, you know, I mean, you don’t have to be entrepreneurial to be in law. You can go into, uh, you know, be be one of the working attorneys and you can still make a good living, or you can go inside to a corporation where they really don’t care if you develop business. But honestly, that human component is, is is important even in corporations, because there you’ve got a whole layer of political aspects and you know who who at what level is willing to trust which lawyer and that sort of thing. And if they don’t know you, you know, that’s not a great thing. They have to know that you’re not only good at what you do, but you’re going to make it easy. You’re not going to say something ridiculous at a very important meeting with investors, for example. You know, they have to trust that you understand. You can read the room, that you’re good with people. And I’m not saying that you’re just a gladhand person, you know, like, oh, you’re a great personality, but you’re you’re you’re intelligent about, uh, you know, your communications with people and you’re respectful and you’re, you know, you you don’t just, you know, want to show that you’re the smartest guy in the room all the time.

Daniel Scola Jr.: That that that will not. That’s I can tell you, a lot of lawyers, um, in a lot I have it even more so when I have a lot of clients who are who are in the medical profession. Uh, at some sometimes you put a couple of, um, you know, letters after people’s names, like a PhD or an MD or a JD or whatever it is. And all of a sudden they they’re talking, they get really, uh, a little bit, you know, arrogant about the way they express things, and that’s a turnoff to most people. Um, so you have to have some sort of understanding. It’s so much people relate. It’s amazing. And maybe, maybe I’m underselling all the other stuff a little bit, but I’m I’m really not trying to. You have to be a competent, uh, both in the law and the science to do what I do. But if you’re going to be really good, you have to be good with the people.

Lee Kantor: Now, do you mind sharing kind of. When you had that aha moment that, hey, I am good with people, I can do this, I can generate revenue for my firm. Did something happen that gave you the confidence, or at least the insight that, hey, this is something I can do and I’m I can figure this out?

Daniel Scola Jr.: Yeah. I mean, I moved around a lot when I was a kid. My my father changed jobs even in the same, uh, state, you know, a number of times. So I went to six, you know, primary schools, for example. And most people would say, oh, gosh, that’s that’s terrible. You know, and this was back when, you know, in the days when they didn’t really have standardized education. So every every time you move to a school, they were you either had the courses already or you or the you had no idea, no background for the courses you’re about to take. So it was a challenge that. But but I one thing I did learn is I learned that there were so many diverse cultures and different types of people, and I, I, I learned that I was reasonably good at, you know, understanding the differences and the similarities in people and getting along really well with them. And so that just carried through to high school and to college. And then when I actually, you know, after law school, when I actually got a job, um, it, it effectively turned into a way that I could negotiate out of situations easily because I could read what was bothering somebody or the type of a type of person that what his concerns might be Or, you know, I look, you know, body language is big. You know, facial expressions is big way they say things is big. What they say is, is important. But also, you know, just somehow this intangible how you connect.

Daniel Scola Jr.: So that’s when I realized how important it was to, you know, even people would have issues between themselves in a, in a single, you know, company. Because I came from in a corporate environment and I, I left corporations to go to, to into private practice, which is not a normal thing. Normally you’re in private practice, you learn something, you’re kind of like Luke Skywalker. You’ve got 3 or 4 years. You really don’t know enough to to to really practice on your own, but you’re not sure you’re going to make partners. So you go inside a corporation where it’s nice and it’s a lot easier. And, you know, people feed you work. And so that’s that’s how you do it. But but you’ve got to get you’ve got to know that to get along with people. And I learned that from just moving around and then being put in in situations in a company where I realized that some of the lawyers were not liked. And the reason was, is they were arrogant, or they didn’t care about the needs of the marketing people or the business people. And when you paid attention to them and, you know, I’m not saying like you, you, uh, you did everything they wanted to because you have to be honest about recommending real legal solutions and telling them there’s risks and why they can’t exactly do what you’re doing, but find a pathway. They could do it. Be positive. That’s how I learned it, basically. That’s why I thought it was key.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share that maybe illustrates what it looks like when you sell somebody something that you meet somebody, you build a relationship, you find out their need and you they’re able to kind of help them get through whatever challenge that they had. Is there something you can share? That was a memorable time you did that and helped another, either a company or a person get the protection they needed.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Yeah, I mean, I can give you I’m trying to think of a the best one I can give you a number of those. Um, where there was a, there was a company that was looking to change, uh, intellectual property attorneys. They, they weren’t getting any traction with the attorney they had, and they really didn’t know. How about, you know, how to go about picking another attorney? Um, but someone recommended they they talk to me. And so during the conversation, I mean, I obviously did some homework, uh, about who the company was and what they did and who I was going to be speaking to and so forth. So that’s important to, to get that background because that, you know, you need to know something in order to have a good conversation. And he, you know, this this gentleman who was in charge, uh, of the hiring, he also was a scientist. He wasn’t a lawyer, but he was a scientist. And he was a pretty, pretty well respected guy in the industry. And I said to him, so what, you know, what is the issue that you’re having? Uh, you know, why are you looking to change attorneys? And he said, well, we’ve we’ve been trying to get patents in this one area for a long time, and we just can’t seem to do it. Now, there’s a lot of reasons that could happen. You know, it may not be the attorney’s fault, but I said to him, well, um, you know, sometimes it’s not the attorney’s fault.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Sometimes there’s other things. And he and I went through all the other things that could, could happen. But I said to him, when I’m faced with something that’s very difficult at, at, let’s say, getting a patent through, here’s the approach I take. And then he says, okay, that’s that’s interesting. I said, perhaps you can suggest that your attorney, your current attorney look and take that kind of approach. And he said, well, how did you come up with that? And I said, because I looked online, which. Which it’s available. And I looked at what your attorney did and I said, it’s not categorically wrong what he did, but he wasn’t focusing on the right aspect of your invention that I saw that the examiner was focusing on. And that’s also reading between the lines there. Again, it’s a little bit of a people thing. What is he really getting at? What is this? What is the real issue that this patent examiner was having and that that attorney did not get it. He missed it. And that’s why they weren’t getting anything through. So I said to him, I’d be happy to do this for you. And I would take a little different approach. Now, I could not give him the full answer, because why would he hire me if I didn’t give him the full answer? But I gave him enough so he understood that the pathway was a better pathway.

Lee Kantor: Right? You were. You were showing you were hearing him, and then you were explaining it to him using an example of his own making and just saying that here’s a I would go a different path. And obviously you still can’t guarantee that it’ll get through. I mean, you just approaching it a different way and then that person either resonates or doesn’t resonate with your thinking.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Absolutely. And I also told him another thing. I said, you know, that if you have a relationship with the examiner and the examiner trusts you, that he’s going to take things differently than if he doesn’t know you and you’re spewing all kinds of arguments. And he’s like, well, I don’t really know if I believe that, but I call up the examiner or I have a zoom call with the examiner. So I know the examiner’s not not all of them, because there’s several thousand at the patent office, for example. Several thousand. The same thing happens, you know, with with other aspects of IP, you know, and so you, you talk to the examiner. You know, you find out what is. You know, the young people don’t like to do that. They’re, you know, they they would rather just say, well, I’ll send them an email. And I’m like, okay, how about you send them an email and I’ll make a phone call and we’ll see who gets further, you know, in the next, in the next week.

Lee Kantor: Right. And I think to your earlier point, I mean, doing the contrarian thing and investing in human to human relationship allows you to stand out and build that relationship. That’s strong enough. So they give you the benefit of the doubt. They’re not just dismissing you out of hand. They’re they’re they feel like they know and trust you, like you said earlier, that that’s important. And then you’re going to get that okay. Yeah. And then they’re going to lean in your direction more times than not. If you invest in the relationship as opposed to just being another, you know, um, application on a pile.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Absolutely. It’s, you know, I refer to it as the ecosystem of trust. You build that.

Lee Kantor: But it’s it’s not intuitive for a lot of folks, especially, I would imagine, with the brain types that you’re dealing with in your firm and then you’re working with it. That’s not their go to move, is, hey, let me build a relationship. Human to human. Like they’re probably trying to get out of those kind of interactions using a digital method if possible.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Yeah, it’s so true. And if you can, if you can do it, though, you will stand out in this area because that’s exactly right. Most of the, you know, a lot of scientists or a lot of people that are not, uh, comfortable putting themselves out there. Another thing which I’m thinking of imposing is, um, making new associates go to, um, you know, these lunch meetings where they, they make you get up in.

Lee Kantor: Oh, like Toastmasters.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Toastmasters type of thing. Um, you know, because I, you know, everybody’s in the same boat there and you realize that, you know, lots of people are a little nervous to speak in front of people and or meet new people. They don’t show it, but they are. And, you know, really, you know, you just, you know, everybody’s afraid of being judged. You know, it’s that’s a normal instinct, right? Normal thing. Um, but you have to get over that, um, and, and realize that, uh, it will stop progress if you, if you live in that kind of fear, just this won’t work.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. I mean, in my opinion, when I a big mindset shift for me, um, when it came to sales occurred when I reframed selling to helping and I’m just trying to help the person. I’m not trying to sell them anything. And if I’m just trying to help them get the best outcome they desire. You know, it would be great if they picked me. But if they don’t, at least I help them. And then there’s no more pressure. There’s no more. Um, you know, I’m not self-conscious anymore. Now I’m just trying to help somebody, you know? That’s all.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Terrific. And that’s a that’s a great approach. That’s a great approach. It’s it’s a little it’s it’s very much, I think not a little. It’s a very much, uh, sort of embedded in what I’m saying as well.

Lee Kantor: Right. I think that’s at the heart of what you’re saying is that let me listen to them. Let me try to help them and you know it. If if I do a good job, a good portion of those people I’m trying to help are going to pick me and.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: You know, and then and you don’t feel icky about it. A lot of these especially young people think sales is a, you know, a four letter word that they don’t want any of that on them. They don’t want to be the kind of that used car salesman person.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Yeah, it’s it’s funny, you know, as much as, you know, sales has this, you know, sort of that like negative shadow a little bit to some people. Same thing with attorneys. You know, you say, oh, those are the attorneys. Uh, you know, you give it to the attorneys that, you know, there’s always that, you know, subterfuge of, of negativity that, uh, that’s associated with it. But it’s it’s because there’s a few that spoil it. It’s not not really the most. Most of it is like that. Uh, yeah. So there’s so look so many aspects of doing any business or any entrepreneurship, um, that have to do with the people connection. I mean, I don’t see how you, you you do it otherwise. I mean.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, and I don’t think it’s it’s it’s law. It’s only law. It’s like every business person has to also have a sales hat if you want to be successful. I mean, you can’t just think you can be a cog in a machine in today’s day and age where they’re automating everything. You better stand out. And in a great way to stand out is if I can generate revenue for my company, I’m going to I’m not going to be the one that gets let go.

Daniel Scola Jr.: That’s it. And that’s it. And if you’re going to generate revenue, you got to put yourself out there. You got to take some risks. You got to be willing to hear, uh, thanks, but no thanks. Um, and then give something for nothing, you know, give something without any expectation of getting it back. You hope you do. But that’s not like you said. It’s helping somebody. It’s not. It’s not expecting.

Lee Kantor: And right. It’s serve first.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Great. I am.

Lee Kantor: Exactly right. Serve first and don’t pitch good. Those are good lessons.

Daniel Scola Jr.: No, it’s true, it’s absolutely true.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more about your firm or what you’re up to, uh, get a hold of that book. What? What are the coordinates? What’s the website? What’s the best way to connect with you?

Daniel Scola Jr.: Well, the best way to connect with me is, um, you can use my personal website, which is my. It’s d at h b I p IP law.com. Or you can just go to, you know, put Google, Hoffman and Barron LLP and you’ll see we have three offices. We have one in, uh, new Jersey, one in, uh, Long Island and one down in Washington, D.C. and we specialize in, you know, protecting people’s ideas. So, you know, patents, trademarks, copyrights, trade secrets, uh, unfair competition. We do litigation and we do procurement, you know, like the patents getting patents and trademarks and copyrights for people and enforcing them and defending them. So yeah.

Lee Kantor: Well, Dan, thank you so much for sharing your story, doing such important work. And we appreciate you.

Daniel Scola Jr.: Yeah, appreciate being on Lee. Thank you very much.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.