Sweetening the Future: Leadership and Innovation with Kash Rocheleau

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have Kash Rocheleau and she is the CEO with Icon Foods. Welcome.

Kash Rocheleau: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Icon Foods. How you serving folks?

Kash Rocheleau: Yeah, we’re an ingredient distributor at its core, and we work in a very niche sector of the industry. We work in the clean label sugar reduction space. So we work with CPGs that are looking to either expand a additional product line that has no added sugar or reduced sugar, or work with them on their current lines, and reducing sugar or eliminating sugar with natural alternatives.

Lee Kantor: So do you mind educating the listener a little bit about what’s out there when it comes to sweeteners?

Kash Rocheleau: Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of different options out there. What we do predominantly is natural. So naturally derived through, um, either fermentation, um, typically fermentation processes. Um, but there are also chemical based sweeteners on the market. Um, and we work we work to get those out as well.

Lee Kantor: So when you’re saying clean, how are you defining clean?

Kash Rocheleau: Clean is naturally derived. So the ingredients that we’re working with are, um, stevia, monkfruit, allulose, erythritol. And then we’ve just gotten into fiber. So something that you can take in nature and get through usually a fermentation process to get to that instead of being made in a lab.

Lee Kantor: But things like sugar or honey, those are natural, right?

Kash Rocheleau: Those are natural. Um, I mean, it just depends on what you’re looking at. Sugar, we believe, is a leading cause to metabolic disease. Um, and it science has shown that there that it is proven to have caused or attribute to a lot of the diseases that we’re seeing, um, in modern day.

Lee Kantor: Now, is that the actual sugar itself or is that what people do to it to make it, uh, so that you can use it in food manufacturing?

Kash Rocheleau: That’s a good question. I would say refined sugar. So when when I talk about sugar in a negative connotation, I’m looking at it as like high fructose corn sirup. We’ve done something more to it to, um, to, to create some of the negative things to it. But sugar at its core is very addictive, whether it’s fully natural or has been processed further. It is it is highly addictive. And I think that’s where, um, that’s where manufacturers or CPGs like to lean into it, because we come back to their products over and over again. Um, and sugar is very cheap, to be honest with you. So it’s an easy input. Um, a lot of times sugar is known as the sweetener, but sugar is also a binder. Um, it’s also a filler, and it also participates in some chemical reactions. So when you think about, um, like cookies, that caramelization, crispiness on the edge is called Maillard. And it’s when heat and sugar meet, you start to get that browning. There’s very few ingredients that participate in in that chemical reaction and other chemical reactions that, um, that sugar do.

Lee Kantor: So now when you’re using some of the other sweeteners like stevia or monk fruit, do they not have any of those kind of negative, uh, things that you negative attributes you mentioned that comes with sugar.

Kash Rocheleau: Some people will say yes. I think that, um, stevia, one of its pitfalls is, is taste. Sometimes it can have some some off notes. The where stevia has come in the last decade has it’s been a long way. I mean, when you look at the first grades of stevia versus, you know, the rhythms that we’re looking at today, very different, a lot cleaner. Um, but the challenge with stevia in comparison to sugar is stevia is a high intensity sweetener. And so it’s, you know, 150 to 200 times sweeter than sugar. So replacing it 1 to 1 is really impossible. Um, you have to kind of use a, um, like erythritol or allulose. Cellulose does do that caramelization process. Um, but some of these naturally derived sweeteners do have GI impact if if used in excess.

Lee Kantor: So what is it like working with your firm? So are the companies that you work with. Are they the large, um, you know, snack foods, uh, beverage companies that are working with you in order to, uh, give their customers a different, uh, choice?

Kash Rocheleau: Yep, yep. So we work predominantly when we work with all types of snack and beverage companies, um, very well known companies. Um, but beverage is really our wheelhouse. I would say more than 50% of our customers are beverage well known beverage companies that are likely in cabinets and refrigerators of listeners here. Um, and then we also work very deeply with nutraceutical bars. So when you think about protein bars or meal replacement bars, those are really our two biggest applications.

Lee Kantor: Now it seems like there is a, um, a surge in, uh, throwing protein in everything. And I think fiber is is probably a close second to what’s happening trend wise. Are you seeing similar things?

Kash Rocheleau: Very similar things. So I think protein is always going to be there really always has been there. We’re seeing more on the on the fiber side. Fibers are are also tricky in the fact that there are different types of fibers they metabolize at different times in the gut. And when you use a single fiber, you you tend to get GI impact issues. And so when we’re working with customers, um, we’re working on stacking different types of fibers so that that metabolic breakdown is happening at different times in the gut, reducing that GI impact. But yes, fiber is the number one trend that we’re seeing right now followed by protein.

Lee Kantor: And what is it? Um, like where are you grabbing the fiber from? Is there any natural source out there that’s a go to when you’re trying to add fiber.

Kash Rocheleau: Yeah. So the the main fiber that we use that we move most of is soluble tapioca fiber. And it’s derived from the cassava root. Um, but we also work with chicory root inulin. We work with Jerusalem artichoke. We work with Fos, um, all naturally derived from plants.

Lee Kantor: Now, how do you kind of like, what’s your R&D team out there going plant by plant to see what will work. Like. How do you even figure this out?

Kash Rocheleau: That’s a good question. Um, we are not the manufacturer of the ingredients. We work with manufacturers who typically break this down. And so when you think about, um, a fiber, it’s derived from something. And then that has a, um, a waste product or a byproduct, if you will. And that’s broken down further. And so a lot of the fibers that you see on the market are byproducts from another process. So when we look at fibers that are on the market or fibers that are in, um products, we typically have customers that come to us and they know exactly what they want. Um, and there’s 10 to 20 different fibers that you can really choose from. And most of our customers, when they come to us, they know what they want or they know their end goal and they’re open to what those options are. So we don’t onboard a lot of new fibers when it comes to our fibers. We have 8 to 10 different SKUs. And you can usually find your solution within those 8 to 10 SKUs, whether it be using a single input or creating a stock.

Lee Kantor: And, um, it’s pretty amazing because I’ve seen some beverages that have fiber content of like 9 or 10. And, um, that seems like impossible from a beverage.

Kash Rocheleau: I mean, if you have a good R&D team, you can do it very well. I mean, to your point, there are some very good, uh, high fiber beverage options on the market now. It also depends on the person. You know, when it comes to some of the reputable brands on the market, you may have a person that can that can only consume one a day. And and that’s their, um, that’s their max. I have a colleague that can, can consume a six pack of, of one of the popular fiber sodas on the market and have no GI impact. So how your body breaks it down is also important to know. But when we’re creating these formulas with the customer, that a lot of that R&D process is a lot of trial, a lot of bench testing, working with multiple groups to see how their body breaks it down, what that impact is, and finding that sweet spot of what a real serving size is now.

Lee Kantor: Are they coming to you and saying, okay, we’re shooting for five grams or we’re shooting for ten, like, and then you just try to, you know, make that happen for them and then land on wherever you land, like, like what is the conversation look like when they say, hey, we’re thinking about adding more fiber to our beverage.

Kash Rocheleau: Very similar to that. They typically come to us. And, and most of the, the formulators that we work with have been in the industry for decades. And so they kind of have the idea of what they want, and they may be hitting a barrier, you know, it may be a goal of hitting ten grams of fiber, but we’re having GI impact. Or it may be, you know, we really want to go from six grams of fiber to eight grams of fiber, but we’re we’re having a hard time masking some off notes that we’re getting. So it can be a gamut, but it’s usually a a base formula that they’ve had where they’re trying to to tweak just something. Um, and usually the tweaks are very similar when it comes to fiber. Again, it’s a lot of times the GI impact. How can we get to this ten grams without having more GI impact? And a real simple answer is stacking your fibers. Most of our customers that are coming to us are using one fiber, and when we start fiber stacking, the GI impact goes down. But we may encounter some some new barriers, such as now we have some taste or it’s augmented the flavor in a way that we don’t want to. So they typically have a goal of what they want to do. Um, which then just kind of dominoes effects into these new issues that we, that we tackle from start to finish. A typical commercial ideation to commercialization process is about nine months.

Lee Kantor: And I mean, but a lot of it is just doing the testing right with humans, just trying it and seeing what happens.

Kash Rocheleau: A lot of it is. Yeah, it’s organoleptic testing whether it be taste, you know, when you open a can or a bottle, does it smell like is it going, is there going to be an aversion to the smell. Is there an aversion to the taste. So a lot of it is organoleptic testing. Yes.

Lee Kantor: Now what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Kash Rocheleau: I kind of accidentally got involved in this. I, um, I got my my bachelor’s degree in business administration, and, uh, shortly after I graduated, I wanted a family. And so me and my husband started a family, and I thought that I wanted to stay home and be a stay at home mom and wife until I was awarded that opportunity. And I just felt like I had lost all sense of purpose. I had lost my identity. And, um, and I went back into the workforce in the accounting arena, knowing that’s kind of where I wanted my, um, my master’s studies to go was accounting and finance. And so Icon Foods was looking for someone in the accounting department. And I took a leap of faith. And almost a decade later, here we are.

Lee Kantor: So you started out there and you just worked your way up to CEO.

Kash Rocheleau: I did. You know, I went back and got my master’s degree in accounting and finance specifically, but I, I took every single opportunity. I didn’t just come in and, you know, sit behind the screen with the financials and the Excel spreadsheets in QuickBooks. I really dove into the cogs in the wheel. How how does this, this whole business turn if sales makes a sale? How does that affect our warehouse? How does that affect production? How does that affect logistics and really got into the weeds of how everything really works. Um, and, and once I felt like I had a good understanding of how it worked within our walls, I started networking without outside of the business. How does it work in this industry where you make a sale here? If we’re competing for business here, we enter into this RFP. How does it get us here? Um, and so yes, I just kind of grew within the business and the industry out of mere curiosity and and wanting to really understand all of the cogs in the wheel.

Lee Kantor: It was like a puzzle. You were trying to figure out how it all goes together.

Kash Rocheleau: I was trying to figure it out. And to this day, I’m still trying to figure out pieces.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, when you started, were you like, one day I’ll be the CEO here? Or was it like, you know, um, hey, I’m here. Let me see how this works.

Kash Rocheleau: No, I never I, I’ve never.

Kash Rocheleau: Vied for a title. The title has never been important to me. The the ability to learn and grow and not have barriers to that growth has always been important to me and as I kind of continued to be curious, continued to get in with different departments and and different people within the industry, those opportunities just naturally came up. When I assumed the CFO role a few years ago, I really thought that that’s where I wanted to be, that’s where I wanted to stay. And our founder decided that he was not the best fit as our CEO. He’s very science backed. He’s he’s he heads all of our R&D and a lot of our commercialization on our own products. And, um, we looked for someone for quite some time, and we just couldn’t find the right person that would fill the role seamlessly. And after about, I don’t know, it was about 12 or 18 months of looking and not really finding the right person. Him and the board had approached me and asked if I would be willing to take over, and at first I was really, um, I was really vocal that I didn’t feel like I was the right person, and they kind of pushed back and, you know, your curiosity, your ability to understand what we do and how we do it is really what we need in this role. And we feel like you’re the perfect, the perfect person to sit in this. So no, I was never vying to be the CEO is never vying to be the CFO. A lot of opportunity came just by being curious, curious and and really getting involved in the business and how the business ran.

Lee Kantor: Now, did you have to, um, do anything differently when it came to being the leader now? And the person that people are looking to for answers and final say is like, was that a mental shift or a mindset shift?

Kash Rocheleau: Yeah. For sure. I mean, when you’re the CFO, you you do have a lot of say you do have a lot of command, but a lot of it is is the protector of the business, right? You know, you know the finances. You know how things affect the finances. And you feed that information up to the CEO and the board who ultimately make that final decision. Um, and as we move into the CEO role, you you have to take off that seat that that CFO hat and really look at if I make this decision, how does it not only affect the business, but how does it affect all of the different silos within the business, all of the different stakeholders within the business? Um, and so I would say that’s been the biggest challenge is I’m really risk averse. And in the CEO seat, sometimes you have to take calculated risks. Sometimes you just have to take risks. Um, but as a CEO, a lot of what you do is leading people and leading people is helping them unleash their highest sense of potential that they may not even know, giving them the autonomy to, you know, make decisions and move needles forward that maybe you couldn’t. Um, and so it’s very different. I mean, they’re both leadership positions. They’re both, um, well respected positions. But you have to walk a little bit different in both positions.

Lee Kantor: Now, any advice for other kind of new leaders out there on how to, um, you know, feel comfortable and confident when it comes to making that final decision? The one that that’s the thing that we’re going to do now, based on all that, I’ve listened to everybody, and now we’re doing this and we’re not doing this other thing. Um, any advice, uh, for making those kind of calls?

Kash Rocheleau: Yeah. I mean, the first piece of advice you kind of mentioned it in the question is really having the conversation with each stakeholder. And so when we make a decision in the company, it’s it’s having the conversation with operations and really getting all of the meat and potatoes. And how is this decision going to affect you? And having those those conversations with each different department and then keeping them in the loop when the decision is made? I first tell the leadership team the decision that’s made. Not only is this a decision that’s made, this is the why behind the decision. This is how we’re going to execute this decision. And we’re all in alignment in that conversation. And once, once we leave the room, um, you have to stay united. If if I have someone that doesn’t agree with me or I don’t agree with someone else and the decision has been made, it’s not known outside of those walls. We are a united front. So I think that first and foremost, when you create those conversations and really get someone’s opinion, how is this going to affect you? Positive negli indifferently, um, you get a lot of buy in and trust and when you have made the decision, communicating it to them first and communicating the why behind that decision? A lot of times when when leaders make decisions, they don’t convey the why and you lose buy in and you lose trust. And a lot of the the people that I work with have said, you know, I haven’t always agreed with your decisions, but when you explain the why and how it affects the other stakeholders makes it a lot easier for me to follow. So I think communication is the number one, the number one attribute you can have as a young leader, as a mature, seasoned leader.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re deciding, like when you decided to, um, work on fiber, um, I assume you started in sweeteners and then you moved to fiber at some point? Is that accurate? Or you were always doing fiber?

Kash Rocheleau: That’s correct. Yeah.

Lee Kantor: So when you’re doing something like that, that’s kind of tangential but different. Um, and but it requires now I have a different supply chain. Like there’s different things that are involved now in fiber than sweeteners. Was that kind of a decision, like, how did that kind of that seems like more of a seismic decision that has, um, has upside, obviously. But there also could be risks with that. Um, can you talk about how that happened and what’s the next thing after fiber that you’re working on.

Kash Rocheleau: Yeah. So all of our innovation and R&D starts with a business case. So our R&D and innovation teams, they will pitch it to the leadership team with a full a full business case coming to us saying we want to add fibers. These are the fibers we want to add. These are the suppliers that we’re betting. And this is the cadence at which we want to bring these fibers in. And then the next phase to that is identifying the customers. If we’re going to bring these these SKUs on, we need to have a target list and how we’re going to go after them. And then from there it’s it’s communicating with those customers. Are you guys single sourced? Are you guys willing to diversify? Um, and food, everything is documented. So you compare items with spec sheets and country of origin and what have you. So it really starts with a business case. And from there it’s a really collaborative conversation. Does this make sense? Does it not. When it came to fiber, fiber, we brought fibers on about two years ago. And for us it was a pretty simple, um, a pretty simple yes, to move forward because fibers are slightly sweet. And so there was a sweetness factor to this, and we saw where the puck was going, and we decided to skate that way. Functionality was just starting to be a really hot topic, specifically in beverage.

Kash Rocheleau: And we were working with a lot of beverage companies. And so for us, that decision was very easy. Um, and there’s so many ingredients that come to us that we, we have the conversation and ultimately say no to. But for us, it has to align with the portfolio and being clean, which we believe is naturally derived. It has to, um, it has to minimally or, um, not at all affect the nutritional facts panel when it comes to added sugars. And if it does, we need to be able to justify it. And so when it comes to fibers, they really don’t affect the added sugars. There are a few that do. Um but when we look at them are they natural sugars. I mean honey affects the nutritional facts panel as an added sugar. It’s naturally derived. Um, and so we we can justify that we don’t carry honey, but but we do look at how it affects the, um, the nutritional facts panel. And then we always have to justify do we have a customer base to market these ingredients to? And once we onboard them, then it goes down another rabbit hole of R&D. And how do we create value added blends. Um, which are a little bit stickier in in sales with customers. So uh, first and foremost it starts with a business case.

Lee Kantor: But and the idea starts typically with the customer asking are you kind of leading them and saying, hey, we’re there’s we can do this. You might want to consider this.

Kash Rocheleau: Yeah. I mean, there’s there’s lots of ways that it started. Typically there’s some sort of customer, um, conversation, whether it be we’re thinking about creating a beverage that’s high in fiber or, you know, we have a bar line and now we want to add a beverage line. Um, but we also watch industry trends. And, and we saw two years ago a huge push in fiber when it came to pet food. We don’t we don’t do a lot with pet food, but we saw this push in fiber and pet food. And from there, a lot of consumers, um, that treat their pets and their pets diets and put them on a pedestal, then kind of follow suit. And so we kind of saw this in the pet food world two years ago. And, and we believe we were going to start seeing it in, in the, um, in the human consumption CPG world. And so, yes, it typically starts with either industry insights that this is going to be a trend or it starts with, uh, customer conversations and formulation.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you.

Kash Rocheleau: What do we need more of? I mean, for us, the for us, we would love the consumer education in in consumers really looking at their ingredients and educating themselves on them, not from, you know, influencers or other modern media really diving deep on what is it that you’re consuming and how is it affecting you and your health? Um, a lot of conversations that we have with Formulators, their, their projects come to fruition because they’ve had an influencer kind of dog on one of their ingredients. And when it comes down to it, the research just hasn’t been done. So we need more people in the consumer world to really research and understand the products they’re consuming for themselves.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, it’s it’s not an easy time to be a consumer. There’s a lot of choices out there and there’s a lot of misinformation as and it’s hard to discern unless you’re a scientist of what is legitimate and what is just somebody’s opinion based on their opinion and not any facts.

Kash Rocheleau: Exactly.

Lee Kantor: So that is a tough a tough one there. So are you trying to be that place of okay, this is part of your, um, messaging out there is we’re going to educate the consumers and we’re going to, you know, show them what our facts and not just the opinions from influencers.

Kash Rocheleau: We do. I mean, we play a weird part in this because the CPGs that we work with were under an NDA. I mean.

Lee Kantor: Right, like, I would imagine you can’t name them, so then you’re at it. So it’s difficult from that standpoint. But you could evangelize. This is the sweeteners and this is why we use them. This is you know, you can you can talk about kind of the ingredients and explain why you’re choosing this one instead of that one.

Kash Rocheleau: Exactly. So we do that with the Formulators. We also we also provide the white papers and the research and the data to our customers to then take out to the consumers. And to your point, consumers are they’re getting better about reading things. They’re getting better about understanding what’s on it, what they’ll tolerate. We’re seeing consumers say, I don’t want to see natural flavors or natural colors. I want to know what they are. What is the natural flavor. And so we are seeing some some consumer pushback. Um, but I think when we work like our part in it is really working with the CPGs and how they can help educate the consumers and transparency in, you know, the the call outs that they choose to use. We can help educate them in, in educating the consumer.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, it is a tough one. It is a tough one because there’s so much out there. It is just very hard. I mean, even for people who who know stuff, it’s hard for them to discern is that study had five people in it or did it have 5000 people in it? You know, like you really have to dig. And most consumers aren’t going to do that kind of work.

Kash Rocheleau: Exactly. Exactly.

Lee Kantor: Well, if somebody wants to learn more about Icon Foods, what is the best website? What’s the best way to connect?

Kash Rocheleau: Yeah, the website would be the best way. Icon Whfoods.com. I’m also on LinkedIn. You can you can connect with me directly. And I’m happy to to set up a call and have that deeper conversation. Um, but those would be the two best ways.

Lee Kantor: Well, cash, it was great chatting with you. Uh, congratulations on all the success. You’re doing such important work, and we appreciate you.

Kash Rocheleau: Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Lee Kantor: All right, this is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.