Healing the Hybrid Workplace: A Therapist and Coach’s Guide to Rebuilding Human Connection

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is gonna be a good one. Today on the show, we have the owner and lead therapist and coach with Confident Minds Psychotherapy and Coaching. Jessica Connell. Welcome.

Jessica Connell: Thank you. It’s great to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about your practice. How are you serving folks?

Jessica Connell: So in two ways. So I’m an executive coach and then also a psychotherapist. So we have a psychotherapy group practice in Manhattan. And each one of our therapists has a different specialty. And then on the other side of things, I’m also an executive coach. So what that means is that I’m working with corporations, also with individuals at the practice as well to help, you know, team building interpersonal dynamics in the corporate setting and in the team setting, and then on an individual level, just kind of taking people to their optimal performance.

Lee Kantor: So what came first, the psychotherapy or the coaching?

Jessica Connell: So it’s hard to say because it’s a bit of a back and forth type of story. So I did go. I got my undergrad in psychology. I kind of got sidetracked. And then I worked in investment banking for, for a bit for about eight, eight years or so. And then I realized that the people component of, you know, what I was doing was still just at the forefront of my mind. And I decided to go back to school to become a psychotherapist. And within that, I was kind of like, you know what? It would be so great if I could somehow get psychotherapy or therapy in some capacity into the corporate environment, into finance, into law firms, into things like that, because I saw, you know, such a need for that. And I’m like, how do we do this? And so actually the show billions because I was looking at performance psychology and I was like, how am I going to how am I going to do that? That that aspect of things and get in there because, you know, um, in corporations, it’s not so big yet to have an actual psychotherapist on staff. But so actually billions came out and I was told that although that character is very, you know, dramatized and fictionalized, um, was actually based on executive coach. And I was like, oh my gosh, so let me look into that. Looked into executive coaching, became certified ICF certified in executive coaching. And I figured that was kind of a way to, you know, bring, bring the best of therapy, but also what is actually, you know, what is accepted right now to corporate space. So it’s like, they can see how a little bit of back and forth there. They were kind of in tandem with each other.

Lee Kantor: So how is the client perceiving this? Are they thinking, are they leading with the therapy or are they leading with the coach coaching? Like how do you kind of move between the two realms? Because I mean, they’re so I mean, I interview a lot of coaches and they make a point to tell me it’s not there. Over and over again. And you’re kind of created a bridge between both of them.

Jessica Connell: Kind of. I think it’s more of just about who I am. So a client will pick either coaching or they’re coming to psychotherapy for more, more clinical diagnoses and treatment, which the clinical aspect of it is different in that we look at the past, we look at behavioral patterns. There’s, you know, I’m trained in psychodynamic theory and cognitive behavioral behavioral therapy. So we’re looking at patterns. We’re looking at your past, we’re looking at, you know, more of like the feelings that are involved and the person as a whole. There’s diagnostic and treatment there. Um, so if somebody’s coming for that, that’s like more kind of, uh, developmental traumas, anxiety, things like that. Um, you know, I do eMDR so there’s trauma work there on the coaching side. It’s more so I, I don’t know what’s holding me back. I want to move forward and set goals for the future. Um, the little bit of the bridge is just that, uh, me having that, that training I can assess and kind of see things from a behavioral aspect of how you’re interacting with other people that is maybe holding you back in your here and now to be able to have different conversations, have understand how people are affecting you, um, interpersonally and how that’s making you communicate with them. Does that make sense?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. So when you’re talking to a person, there’s a distinction. You have a different hat on when you’re either a therapist or a coach.

Jessica Connell: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: Right. So I mean, so it’s a clear delineation. It’s when you’re coaching, you might kind of have some background information that you might be able to weave in that might be useful, but it’s a different experience when you’re wearing your therapist hat versus the coach hat.

Jessica Connell: Yes it is.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, from your clients standpoint, is that something that gives them more comfort? Like how are they perceiving it?

Jessica Connell: Well, I think that the comfort could be on if somebody’s is coming for me for coaching, they know that I probably can assess the behaviors. There is a deeper understanding of the psychological background of what is going on with them. And I’m I’m licensed to be able to, you know, assess those things. Um, you know, whereas a coach is, is, is certified as a coach and they’re not really supposed to dig deep into those feelings and stuff like that. So I think the comfort is, is more so around like the clinical background and the training and the psychological theory and like the knowledge base around that. So some of my executive coaching can have can be informed in some ways by my clinical experience.

Lee Kantor: Now when you’re working with organizations, do they perceive this as a higher value when they’re working with you versus working with a coach that doesn’t have the therapy background that you have?

Jessica Connell: Honestly, it really depends. It depends on what they’re looking for. Um, I think that some, uh, corporations don’t want to go anywhere near the clinical aspect of things and they want to kind of keep it as like team building and like the here and now. Um, and don’t really love the idea of that behavioral assessment, whether it’s because it’s about the team or they’re incorporated in the team and maybe they’re not ready for like, because, because therapy is a different type of process and it can be, it’s a healing process can be a hard process, right? So I think there can be some fear around that sometimes if I’m going to poke at that. And then, but I think on the other side, I think there can be, you know, some corporations or, uh, see it as, um, you know, extra credentials and credibility.

Lee Kantor: So when the client comes to you and they are having those initial conversations, are you helping them kind of choose the path or they’re coming to you with coaching? And then, hey, we’re not going to get into the therapy aspect of this unless you see a need. Like how does the, the work if you have to move between the either one of those.

Jessica Connell: Yeah. So we, we talk about it. We usually have a phone consult, um, Beforehand, and some clients know that they just want the coaching they like. Like the executive coaching side of it, we’re just going to work on work stuff. Don’t necessarily want to dig. And they’ll tell me that, um, uh, and then some client. Like I can explain like where we could start off with therapy. Uh, if there are some, some things that have, you know, that kind of need to be addressed in terms of feelings and, um, maybe developmental traumas and things that are informing some of their behaviors. And then we could then we say, okay, well, this is now time. We can, we can switch to coaching and we can do the goal setting portion of this and really do the very results, uh, driven kind of output work.

Lee Kantor: Now, which one of these do you enjoy one more than the other? Or do you see, do you think that this is the dynamic that you’ve been able to create? Do you think this is kind of a roadmap for future coaches to explore therapy or future therapist to explore coaching?

Jessica Connell: Um, not necessarily.

Jessica Connell: I think that like, I think most clinicians and practitioners, they have their idea, they have their specialty, they have their ideal client in their niche that they they want to go into. Um, so I mean, I guess it could it, I guess if somebody was from a corporate background and then also wanted to be a therapist, it kind of does, uh, naturally kind of marry the two. Um, so I don’t necessarily think it’s going to be like a, you know, a future type of thing that people are going to be jumping toward because I think there are so many different specialties. There’s so many different niches, there’s so many different, um, populations that people have the desire to work with. So, um, that’s, that’s really nuanced. What, what my, what is my favorite? I do like having, you know, all different clients. So I do love working with professionals. I do love kind of, you know, like the coaching aspect of, of, you know, you got this, we can get to the next level or even just in the interpersonal dynamics of the, how they’re communicating and interacting with with people at work and just seeing people get promotions and things like that, and seeing teams have a better relationship with each other. And, um, you know, all those dynamics, making everything kind of flow and be more efficient is absolutely great. But then there’s the clinical side to my work. Um, I specialize also in, uh, eMDR, which is trauma work and couples therapy. And I love that as well. And, um, I’d say those, those three things, executive coaching, couples therapy and eMDR are my favorites.

Lee Kantor: Now, you mentioned several times about interpersonal dynamics. Can you explain, uh, some of the things that you’re seeing along those lines and what people are struggling with and maybe some advice to help people with that?

Jessica Connell: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I’d say the trend right now given, um, you know, come, come. I know we’re a few years out of Covid, but I think that the effects are still, um, so acute on, um, you know, just the social aspect of the young people coming into the workforce and not being in an office and not getting that that business communication experience firsthand to just kind of be able to turn around to their coworker or pick up the phone or go over to, to their coworker. I think there’s a lot of, um, there can be a lot of isolation and introversion in that. So, um, the interpersonal dynamics right now, I think there’s the, the social anxiety portion of it. Um, and so I think that that’s going to be a little bit challenging in the workplace going forward, especially that. I mean, I think it’s a good thing that, you know, most more companies are going into hybrid and bringing people back into the office because it’s really needed for that socialization. Um, but I think struggles are going to be, uh, even around, um, you know, just being in the workplace and even some of the emotional components that are coming out with the younger generation of, you know, needing, uh, the work life balance, which is absolutely okay.

Jessica Connell: But I think that there’s a way to communicate that that hasn’t, um, you know, hasn’t really been perfected. So it comes off sometimes as, um, the person is taking too much time off or they’re um, complaining or things like that. Um, to, you know, maybe the older generation who was pre Covid used to kind of like head down, uh, working when we’re at work and not necessarily taking that personal time for ourselves. So I think that the way that that’s communicated is going to be an issue. And then just in general, interpersonal dynamics come into play, uh, based on how people trigger us and how we’re communicating with people. Um. It can trigger something from our, our childhood or our past or the way somebody has talked to, like talk to us in the past. And then we don’t see that person for what they’re, what they’re actually saying. We’re interpreting it in a different way. There’s projections and stuff and that can hold, that can hold, uh, team members back either from, from the peer relationships, from, you know, manager to managing relationships. Um, and it just, it kind of creates the morale for the entire team.

Lee Kantor: So do you see the trend of, um, you know, during the pandemic and coming out of it, there was a, a work from home. Uh, remote work is totally cool. You live wherever you want. And now there obviously is a push more for return to office. And, um, and that’s creating some friction. How do you help organizations with that transition in order to, um, help explain why it’s of value to come back to the office, if that’s the policy and how maybe a young person can adapt or be better equipped to handle that return to office.

Jessica Connell: Mhm.

Jessica Connell: Yeah. I mean, I think like team building is really important in that aspect where it’s like, it actually shows the, the, the generation that did start working from home, what the benefit is to being in the office. Right. So I think if there’s a shy component, there can be the social anxiety component. The person’s going to maybe like just sit at their desk and be like scared and not and not be comfortable in the environment with other people around. If we can show them that there can be a good team team rapport and they can be friendly with people and that working together in, in person, in that capacity and just bouncing ideas off of each other and having the conversation flow, um, is super important right now. I think conversation flow for, you know, the generation that is not was, is kind of more isolated is hard. So small talk, you know, having more like it’s not your best friend type of conversation, you’re not comfortable with somebody. I think a lot of people are shying away from going to into the office because of that. So the way that I work with, with that is, is team building. And then also an assessment of, of, you know, having one on ones with everyone in that team and see where they’re at with social anxiety. And then kind of like having these mock conversations, or here’s what it could look like, or just kind of really working out some of the social anxiety portions of it by exposure. Well, let’s have this conversation. We’ll see how, you know, see how the interaction goes. Right. And so a lot of it is kind of almost like role play in a way to, to help desensitize the person to just being in person with people again.

Lee Kantor: Do you think that coming out of the pandemic, the young people were maybe sold a bill of goods and then now we’re kind of changing the rules and they’re having a tough time adapting to the new rules?

Jessica Connell: I think so. I don’t I don’t see how you couldn’t, right. Like we post pandemic, it was like, you know, and this wasn’t a good thing either. Not really having work, work life balance. I mean, especially, you know, my experience working in finance, like sometimes you couldn’t even get off your desk. Right. So that was like the norm for us. You know, we’re we’re in the office, whatever, probably more than 9 to 5. But, you know, we’re kind of at our desk head down. Um, optics are that that is good. Um, so imagine coming into the workforce and being at home, kind of having everything casual. You’re kind of be on, on your phone and on the internet and kind of doing what you want, laundry in the background and all of that. And then being kind of almost like quote unquote, trapped at a desk again is going to be a big, it’s going to be a big transition in shock. That’s why I do think the hybrid models are, are probably a good way to go. So this way it’s not, um, kind of like an overload of like just getting back into the office and, and having to really learn a whole new way of working life.

Lee Kantor: Right? But for a lot of young people, this is a new thing. Like even their last probably year of college or so they were at home and then their first years of working were at home. And now you’re saying, okay, that’s not how we do things anymore. Now you have to come in the office, and now this is new. Like they’re out of practice. This. And and especially during that formative years of probably their brain growth. And now you’re being thrust into this new world and new expectations and new ways of doing things that now you got to learn as like for the first time ever, that has to be extremely stressful.

Jessica Connell: Yeah. They’re not even just, they’re not out of practice. Right? Like you just said, they’re, they’re learning from scratch basically how to be in that type of environment. You know, so it is definitely stressful. But I think that as people are going in, they’re being desensitized to the social anxiety and socialization, uh, fearful portion of that and realizing how beneficial it can be to get out of the house, you know, to even, you know, get up and get dressed. Um, and really seeing that like there is benefit to just be able to turn around and talk to a coworker, get up and go to somebody’s desk like they’re, I think they’re seeing the the efficiencies once they get there. But I think the the fear portion is like the anticipatory anxiety portion of it. What is that going to be like? Can I do this? Can I, you know, can I sit there all day? And a lot of people, the feedback is like, I’m actually more productive sometimes in the office, you know, and there’s other things that are better suited for at home. Um, so it definitely is a learning curve, but I think as you know, I think the best thing that can, that an employer can do is actually make those days mandatory because you’d see a lot of, if it’s not mandatory, then people aren’t going in.

Lee Kantor: Or they’re going in in a manner that they’re just checking the box that I went in. So it’s like counterproductive almost because they’re both resentful, like the, the worker’s resentful that they have to go in and pretend to be there for five minutes. And then, and then the employer is resentful that they’re doing kind of the minimum. So it has to be kind of symbiotic in order for it to be effective, I think.

Jessica Connell: Yeah. And the benefit has to be, you know, seen. Right.

Lee Kantor: Like, yeah.

Jessica Connell: Analysis on both sides.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. I think that that’s when the pandemic happened. I was I remember having conversations about you. If how are you training and onboarding a new person? How are they learning? How are they being like a fly on the wall? How are they getting these kind of, um, uh, the random conversations or the pop in to ask one question like, how are you doing? If you’re not mindful about that? They’re missing out on a lot of the ways that you learn and you, um, become more effective as a worker in that environment. And now the, the pendulum has swung to the other side, where now we’re trying to encourage them to come back in a way that they feel that this is worth it.

Jessica Connell: Yeah, absolutely. And it definitely I mean, it is worth it. We we need to be around other people. That’s the way that we learn. Like a lot of the companies that are staying completely remote, there is a very disconnected aspect to it, right? Like you have to wait for the person to, to call you back, right? Like there isn’t just like, okay, let’s get this done. And like the efficiencies around that, right? There, there isn’t the, the small talk or just like really just being able to communicate and just have like one off conversations that, that, that you wouldn’t have. Right? Like it, socialization is extremely important to, to us and being able to interact with other people.

Lee Kantor: Right? And, and those serendipitous moments are important. They’re hard to track and measure, but they have a big impact over time.

Jessica Connell: Mhm. I mean, I think like people.

Jessica Connell: Don’t even realize sometimes what, like, as they leave, as they leave their apartment and they see their doorman, the doorman smiles at them or the person that’s, that’s in their office, that’s the first person they see and smiles at them, you know, or even just people on the street. Like those interactions are really important. So staying in all the time is, is really is detrimental to a person’s confidence, self-esteem, and the way that they interact with the world.

Lee Kantor: Right? And that you’re seeing that in all these surveys about loneliness.

Jessica Connell: Yeah.

Lee Kantor: I mean, what better way to, uh, deal with that than interacting with more people more of the time?

Jessica Connell: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: So, uh, when is there a story you can share that maybe illustrates how you work with an organization? Do you have a favorite story that you mind sharing where they came to you with the challenge and you were able to help them?

Jessica Connell: Yeah. Um, so I worked with an organization just kind of very similarly to what, um, what I was talking with you about. Like there was a very disconnected. It was, I’d say a few years ago. So more so coming out of, out of the pandemic when people were starting to go, um, go back to work. And so they had called me to do, um, some team building work and then also kind of sit in and do one on one coaching with people and then kind of give an overview of, of kind of, you know, what the recommendation was going forward. And the, you could see from the beginning, like there is such a, a disconnect and a coldness kind of as I had them in the room and I was talking about what we were going to be doing. And, you know, even just talking about some of like the coaching and like a little bit of psychoeducation around, you know, team building and team dynamics and interpersonal dynamics and also, um, social anxiety, right. You could see in the room the disconnect where it didn’t feel warm, it didn’t feel so, so friendly. Um, I think again, like you were saying, like people were resentful to be there. Um, they didn’t understand why they had to be there. Uh, they weren’t connecting with their coworkers because everybody was of like different ages and stuff like that. Um, as we did team building exercise, um, you could just see them interacting with each other in a way that like we did some, we did some fun, um, uh, kind of, uh, putting pictures together of of what? Certain, um, you know what? Like certain words, I forget what the words were at this point, but like with certain words, like meant to them.

Jessica Connell: And so like kind of, um, uh, picking, picking pictures out of magazines to be able to do that. And they were, and they actually started to interact with each other in a, in a humorous way that I think totally seemed like it was missing. Um, when I was sitting kind of doing the little psychoeducation portion of it and, um, and, you know, people were raising their hand and they were saying like, they, they do want, like the things that they, they want, they do want to be more friendly with their coworkers. They do want to be able to, to interact with more ease and stuff like that. So you could, you could see just even laughing with each other, open things up so much more. Um, and then I sat with, uh, you know, individuals after that and, um, you know, they were like, I have a little bit more like faith that this is going to be okay being back in the office and, um, there, there it was. The common denominator was like, I don’t know if people are going to like me. How do I get the team to like me? How do I know what they’re thinking? You know, and, and I think what a lot of what I, what I did also with management was saying, like, we have to figure out some sort of, um, what kind of feedback guidelines. Um, so that the, you know, like team leaders, management understand how to give positive feedback to their employees as well that like they’re doing a good job. Everybody’s acting, everybody’s interacting in a good way. Um, I think that was, it was, it was so, um, stark in this situation that that was kind of like lost.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. And you were able to bring kind of humanity back into the organization.

Jessica Connell: Exactly, exactly.

Lee Kantor: It’s, uh, it’s so funny that with so much technology and all this AI and all these things that people are getting farther and farther away from human to human interactions. And that’s where we ought to be leaning more into. I think.

Jessica Connell: Yeah, actually, I was reading an article the other day that, that, you know, like, we don’t know where this is going to go with AI and everything, but that it probably will come full circle. What will be important once everything kind of settles is, uh, like human interaction. So the way people are with each other and how, how warm they are and how they’re interacting with other people is going to become really important again. Um, I mean, and it should be, and a lot of what I try to teach is how do we understand how we are the interpersonal dynamics, how we are affecting the other person? It’s kind of self-awareness. How are we coming into this conversation? How are we projecting and seeing something that maybe this person isn’t saying because of, of what’s going on with ourselves? Right? Um, how is that person triggering us? So we’re coming into the room in a way of more empathy. Empathy and understanding of like this person is, is someone totally different than me. And they’re going through, they have a different upbringing. They’re going through something completely different in their life. So I’m not going to assume or be paranoid that they’re coming at me in this way that might be triggered by something I’ve gone through in the past or, you know, um, something about them, you know, like where they come from, like not having any assumptions. So really the empathy for each other is going to be really important in the way we interact in that, that, that human connection that obviously can’t happen through AI and that that warmth and nurturing way is going to be really important, right?

Lee Kantor: And it’s hard to do that by text.

Jessica Connell: Exactly.

Lee Kantor: You’re going to have to learn how to, to, to be a whole human in front of other whole humans in person to read. There’s a lot of data that’s being shared that it’s really difficult to do that, you know, virtually or through text or email or Slack. You know, it’s.

Jessica Connell: Absolutely especially text. Things get taken out of context all the time and email and slacks and, you know, it’s just the it’s read completely sometimes like completely different than what should be coming across, right?

Lee Kantor: Because you don’t see the smile or the wink or the smirk, like you’re, you’re making a lot of assumptions based on, you know, just a handful of characters. And that’s it’s impossible. That’s not how humans interact.

Jessica Connell: Yeah. Like even if the person, like if, if you were talking to somebody like, say, like over your cubicle, right. And, and then like, they all of a sudden got startled because they’re like, oh my gosh, I have to go. I forgot I had to go do this stuff. And they run away, right? They’re like, oh, okay. Well, you know, that they’re, they’re busy and they forgot something, you know, what’s going on there. So if somebody goes and slacks somebody and then they like and just really quick and then they get distracted, it could, it could come off in a completely different way. And they and the other person has no, you know, context as to why that happened that way.

Lee Kantor: Right. And our default move isn’t usually grace.

Jessica Connell: No it’s not.

Lee Kantor: Well, if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you about your practice or get on your calendar. What’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Jessica Connell: Yeah. Best way to connect is, um, email me. My email is jessica@cmpcnyc.com. That’s, uh, the website, uh, Confident Mind Psychotherapy and Coaching NYC. Those are the, the letters of it. Um, and then our website is www.nyc.com and you can also give me a call. Um, our practice number is (917) 727-1435.

Lee Kantor: Well, Jessica, thank you so much for sharing your story today doing such important work. And we appreciate you.

Jessica Connell: Oh, I appreciate that. And thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is the Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.