Jeff Wenninger with Law Enforcement Consultants

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Stone Payton: Welcome to the High Velocity Radio show, where we celebrate top performers producing better results in less time. Stone Payton here with you this afternoon. You guys are in for a real treat. Please join me in welcoming to the broadcast founder and CEO with Law Enforcement Consultants, Mr. Jeff Wenninger. How are you, man?

Jeff Wenninger: Oh, I’m doing great. I appreciate you having me.

Stone Payton: Oh, it’s a delight to have you on the broadcast. I got a ton of questions, Jeff. We may not get to them all, but I’ll tell you what. Let’s start. Maybe just paint a bit of a picture for me and our listeners. Mission. Purpose. What are you and your team really out there trying to do for folks? Man.

Jeff Wenninger: You know, we do expert testimony in both civil and criminal court cases, basically involving police application of force. But what is most important about what we do is we consult law enforcement agencies to try to bridge that gap between societal expectations and police actions. And that’s all about implementing management best practices for law enforcement organizations. And it’s it’s quite an important endeavor. Um, I have a a forthcoming book that’s coming out. It’s called On Thin Ice. And the reason I call it on thin ice is because law enforcement is on thin ice, and we need to make some, some changes and implement some actionable solutions to try to make the improvements necessary to be successful moving forward in the 21st century.

Stone Payton: Well, you’re right, it is incredibly important work. What is the backstory, man? How did you find yourself doing this?

Jeff Wenninger: Well, I’m a, uh, retired law enforcement professional. After 33 years, primarily with the Los Angeles Police Department, and during my career, I was very frustrated with the insular, inflexible culture of law enforcement, and I found that in retirement, I have been even more empowered to have an influence on the trajectory of law enforcement moving forward. And that’s why I’ve taken on these these two main endeavors. One, as the founder and CEO of Law Enforcement Consultants and two, as the author of my forthcoming book On Thin Ice.

Stone Payton: So what was taking that leap like going into what I’m operating under? The impression is a little bit of an entrepreneurial pursuit was because it’s a business, right? Was it any surprises or challenges in making a business out of this thing?

Jeff Wenninger: Well, with anything, there’s always going to be challenges. But I would say the surprises happen to be how much interest there is in the improvements that need to be made and the amount of outreach that I actually have. And I have found that very, very, um, promising and reassuring. And it helps to, to energize me to continue to do more.

Stone Payton: Yeah. So what are you finding the most rewarding these days? What are you enjoying the most at this point?

Jeff Wenninger: Well, you know, listen to to really have the listeners understand, you have to have some context of my background and where I came from. I have a very unique background. Um, I was adopted, my mother was a teenage mother, and she put me up for adoption, and I lived in a foster home for a short period of time before I was adopted, and I was adopted by two wonderful people. My father was a sociologist. He was a professor at Kent State University here in Ohio, and my mother was a chemist for DuPont. And she decided to forgo her career because she wanted to be a mother. And they wanted four children and they wanted four children each one year apart. And they had their biological daughter, my oldest sister. Then they adopted me. They adopted my brother, who’s Japanese, and then I have a foster sister who’s black. And I grew up in the 60s and 70s in Kent, Ohio. And that was a very unique experience, which I carried into my law enforcement profession. And the lens in which I saw my experiences in law enforcement through was very different than the the average law enforcement officer. And it’s with that experience that I have moved forward into my my current endeavors in what I believe to be some some actionable solutions to help law enforcement move forward.

Stone Payton: So let’s dive into the work a little bit. Well, let me clarify. The the client in many cases is a municipality, a local police force. So clarify that for us. But and yeah, talk a little bit about the work. You come in and you start doing what?

Jeff Wenninger: Well, it’s also, uh, attorneys in regards to our expert testimony that we give. Right. But the consulting stuff can be, uh, law enforcement agencies. It can be school districts, universities. It’s all about best practices in managing critical incidents. And it’s it’s never been the sole role of law enforcement to ensure optimal outcomes of these critical incidents. It’s a collective, collective relationship that has to go on between, say, a university and the law enforcement agency. And it’s about working together and getting having a holistic approach where it involves everybody to ensure that optimal outcomes occur.

Stone Payton: And so is it largely, at least in the early stages of this work with a new client? Is it a mindset shift that you’re trying to to effect?

Jeff Wenninger: Well, what I’ve always said is it doesn’t matter what your policies and procedures are, and it doesn’t matter what your training happens to be. If your culture does not align with it, culture will always trump policies, procedures, and training. And that’s where oftentimes law enforcement falls short, that the culture is not aligned with the training and the policies and procedures. So officers actions fall short of organizational expectations and most importantly, societal expectations.

Stone Payton: Boy, you don’t pick small battles, do you? To to try to affect a genuine shift in culture. That’s I mean the rewards must be huge and the impact must be huge. But man, that sounds like a long, hard road to hoe, as my daddy would say.

Jeff Wenninger: Well, it absolutely is. But what I encourage is what I call creative encounters. And what that is, is having interactions with people that have differing opinions, that they view things differently. And there’s conflict. We can’t, as law enforcement professionals and managers and executives, be resistant to conflict. It’s that conflict that will breed the best results. I’ve always said it’s not about being right, it’s about getting it right. And that requires that as many people with differing opinions and backgrounds sitting at the at the table to formulate the best way to move forward. And that’s what needs to happen. That’s the part of the law enforcement culture that significantly needs to change. And there is evidence out there to to show that it will work. You just have to be objective and open minded to it.

Stone Payton: It strikes me that one of the skill sets or attitudes, I don’t know what the right word is. It might often Be learning how to to, I don’t know, listen more than you talk or genuinely try to put yourself in the other guy’s shoes for a little bit and see it through their lens. Is is that accurate to some degree?

Jeff Wenninger: It is. It’s it’s really all about challenging ingrained attitudes. And law enforcement needs to evolve when it comes to their integrity, their empathy and their accountability. And that requires that there’s a better understanding between the law enforcement organization and the communities they serve. And it’s not just a one way understanding. Law enforcement needs to better manage and control the narrative, especially when it when it’s regarding critical incidents, because if they don’t, then you’re going to have undue criticism because the information is not being put out there. So people are going to come up with their own conclusions and formulate their opinions based on, on conspiracy theories and, and rumors and innuendo and, you know, that’s that’s another area that law enforcement really needs to to change their perspective on how to move forward. And that’s the disclosure of and sharing of information to the communities in which they serve.

Stone Payton: So what’s the delivery mechanism? And it’s probably more than one I’m probably oversimplifying it. Is is it working with the very top leadership at first and then some like, like workshops and that kind of thing. How do you get this done?

Jeff Wenninger: Well, oftentimes you find that if you if you just work with the leadership itself as it is today, it’s resistant to it. So it, it it’s important to get the people on board that can influence those leaders within law enforcement. And oftentimes that that’s mayors or city council members, uh, police commissioners. It really just depends on the the design of any municipality’s law enforcement organization. But the tough questions need to be asked, and you can’t allow law enforcement to to drive within their insular culture the the direction in which they, they handle things on a daily basis. There has to be outside influence involved in that. And it has to be a very honest one. And I’ll give you a perfect example, and it’s an exemplary example. Just recently, Mayor Karen Bass of Los Angeles appointed Jim McDonnell chief of police. Now, he was formerly an assistant chief with LAPD. And then he went on to be the chief of police in Long Beach and then the sheriff of LA County. And she selected him when politically, she probably was receiving some pressure to to perhaps appoint one of the other two final candidates. But she she went on merit and saw the value in Jim McDonnell and what he’s now saying because he was just recently sworn in.

Jeff Wenninger: He’s telling the public and he’s being honest, that under me you’re going to see crime rise. But it’s not because there’s more incidence of crime. I’m going to be working to bridge those relationships between the law enforcement agency and the communities that we serve, so that people feel more comfortable coming to law enforcement and reporting their crimes. Wow. No longer going to be be afraid to come forward or not come forward because they think we’re not going to do anything for them. Now, how much courage does it take for a chief of police to take steps that he knows is going to increase crime, which reducing crime is his main function? However, he’s going to be increasing crime, but it’s going to be what’s best for the community. And it’s not that he’s increasing the incidence. He’s just going to be increasing the reporting, which then makes it possible for him to better understand how he needs to address that crime. And what an honest approach. And that’s very, very, um, important moving forward and in Los Angeles is quite lucky to have him.

Stone Payton: I agree that is huge and yes, unbelievably courageous that that’s a unique brand of courage, both on on her part, uh, Miss Bass but and on this this gentleman that is. I’ll just use the word it’s that’s inspiring that someone would be willing to do that.

Jeff Wenninger: Yeah. I’ve got the utmost respect for him.

Stone Payton: I can see why. Well, tell us about this book. I want to hear about the content of the book and the structure and all that, but a more a broader question, I guess. What was that experience like, committing some of your, your ideas and experience to to paper? What was it like to write a book, man.

Jeff Wenninger: Well, you know, the book is really it’s an insider’s perspective and it shares my, my personal stories or experiences, and it provides practical Solutions to some of the challenges facing law enforcement. And in some sense, it was. It was rather therapeutic. And the process, it’s been two and a half years since I started. And if you would, if I would have, if I would have known what I know now, I’m not sure I would have had the courage to take on this endeavor because it was so much more involved than I ever dreamed it would be. But it’s evolved. It’s it’s changed and it’s it’s I think it’s going to be groundbreaking. It’s going to make a splash, and not everybody’s going to like what I have to say. Many people will say, would say that I’m rather critical of law enforcement. But this is what I think is important. You have to know where law enforcement has been. You have to be willing to provide an honest assessment of where law enforcement currently is, in order to have a vision to where it needs to go. And that’s what I do. I’m a truth teller. I’m not going to to to sugarcoat things. I’m honest about my experiences. I’m honest about what I saw. And through my experiences, you’re able to see why I make the recommendations that I make. And whether you’re somebody that just is interested in law enforcement and find those stories rather interesting and intriguing, you’ll love my book. If you’re more an academic or you’re in law enforcement and you’re going into law enforcement leadership, and you’re going to be interested in the solutions that that, that I, that I provide because my solutions are backed by empirical evidence. It’s not just my opinion, my opinion. I’m sharing what my my research, what my outreach and my experiences have led me to believe is a way to move forward. And I believe this book will be be interesting and picked up and read by the suburban house mother all the way to members of Congress.

Stone Payton: Wow. So I have to confess, Jeff, prior to this conversation, my entire frame of reference with regard to law enforcement is largely the TV show Blue Bloods. Okay. But I have to believe that with that kind of distinguished career, I bet you had some really proud moments and felt real good about the work you were doing as a law enforcement officer. Yeah.

Jeff Wenninger: Yeah, I would, and I would say I did. And the most important thing, it was never my individual accomplishments. The one thing that sticks out for me was after the Rampart gang scandal, um, they brought me in to clean up the gang unit, and I was given a lot of latitude, and I was allowed to select my personnel. And through doing that, I changed the entire paradigm in which I viewed the success of of the unit. And we changed our measures of effectiveness. And it was very unpopular, but it was a different way of thinking, and I held my officers extremely accountable to you. I’ll give you an example. When they would write their arrest reports, I required them to cite in parentheses the case law that gave them the authority to do what they did. Wow. And, you know, you just didn’t see that anywhere. I required every one of them within a year of being selected to my gang unit, to be a court certified gang expert in their assigned gangs. There was no other unit that was similar to that. And I wasn’t worried about the number of arrests they were making. What I was worried about was the gang intelligence that they were getting during their daily contacts and interactions with gang members on the streets. That is what was going to be the most effective. We could pull people in all day long for gang related type crimes, but unless you’re getting the shot callers, there’s always going to be somebody new to take the place of the person you just arrested. So if you really want to make an impact and you really want to knock down crime, you have to go after the shot callers. So I wasn’t worried about the number of arrests. I wanted to know how many convictions were they getting? How many filings, how many convictions? How many years in prison were they getting? That was my measure of effectiveness. And we actually got the Meritorious Unit Citation for developing a model to be exemplified not only throughout the other divisions in the Los Angeles Police Department, but throughout the United States.

Stone Payton: So how does the whole sales and marketing thing work for a practice like yours, or is it just largely referral like, do you have to do marketing like some of us other folks, or does it or is it just doing good work? Is is how you get more work?

Jeff Wenninger: Well, you develop your reputation through your one your expertise. Two your relevance. Three your exposure. And and by all three of those I find that I have I have more work than I than I know what to do with.

Stone Payton: Well, good. That’s encouraging to hear. I will switch gears on you for a moment. You are so heavily invested. Quite obviously. I mean, we can hear it in your in your voice into this, this work and making a real impact. I don’t know when and where or how you’d find the time, but passions, pursuits, interests, hobbies outside the scope of this work. A lot of my listeners know that I like to hunt, fish, and travel. You. You have anything you nerd out about other than this?

Jeff Wenninger: Well, it’s something that was instilled in me as a young boy. My parents were were very physical. Both of them were marathon runners. Oh, my. I was an athlete. I played Division one college ice hockey on scholarship. I continued to maintain a high level of physical conditioning throughout my career. I felt that that helped with my, you know, officer wellness, you know, my my mental health. Um, I’ve really focused on having relationships that are diverse relationships outside of people that are in the world of law enforcement. And I and I too like to travel. Actually, my son, who’s 13 years old, and I were going over to London, England. We’re leaving this Thursday, and we’re going to be we’re going to go over to, uh, Paris and, uh, Normandy and, uh, we’re going to go to Brussels and Belgium and the Netherlands, and we’re going to, we’re going to see some things and expose my son for the first time to, to a world outside of the United States.

Stone Payton: Oh, that is fantastic. So what’s next for you? It sounds like you’ve got plenty of of work. Or do you have an eye toward expanding your, uh, your practice? And, I don’t know, having the the Jeff Weninger methodology and being able to take it to, to more places. What’s on the horizon for you over the next year, 18 months?

Jeff Wenninger: You think it’s about growth of the company? Okay. I will be working on I currently have six, six employees with similar backgrounds as I have, and I’m looking to bring on another six. And I have people from California to Florida and everywhere in between. Oh, wow. Um, but but also, I foresee potentially a second book. I do enjoy writing. I write quite a bit. I write a bunch of guest columns on on law enforcement related issues that that get published in various, uh, various periodicals, newspapers and such throughout the country. And I really do get get a lot of pleasure out of writing. Um, I’ve reached quite a few people that way, and I’m also on my social media. If you go to LinkedIn, uh, Jeff Weninger on LinkedIn, you’ll, you’ll see a lot of my writings. I post them there. I write a blog, and I do quite a, quite a bit of, uh, of quite a number of podcasts and stuff talking about about what I’m, what I’m, um, committed to, to doing and the direction I’d love to see law enforcement going.

Stone Payton: So what’s the best way for people to tap into your work? Sounds like you’ve mentioned several. I just I want our folks to have whatever coordinates you think are appropriate to either have a conversation with you or at least begin tapping into your work. I wanted to be able to get their hands on this book when it comes out, so let’s let’s share some coordinates with them again.

Jeff Wenninger: Well, the best way to get Ahold of me is Jeff Weninger on LinkedIn. And there you will be. You will find when I have the early release list for my book, you’ll be able to access that there. My current website for my company is down because I’m expanding and I’m adding my employees and experts to to that website. So so that’s currently down. But the best way right now is to get Ahold of me is on LinkedIn, and you can send me a message. I will absolutely respond within a day. And I look forward to hearing people and and hearing their insights and asking me questions. And and I really enjoy the feedback. I, I actually have people from all over the world that reach out and, and give me encouragement and say that what you’re doing is a is a worthy endeavor. And and I appreciate what you’re doing. So it’s it’s, uh, it’s it’s not only not only can I help, help people, but they actually help me in keeping me focused and motivated to continue to do what I’m doing.

Stone Payton: Well, Jeff, it has been an absolute delight having you on the broadcast. Thank you for your insight, your perspective, your courage. The work you’re doing is obviously having such a marvelous impact on so many, and we sure appreciate you, man.

Jeff Wenninger: Well, I appreciate you having me. And, uh, hopefully to look forward to having contact with you in the future.

Stone Payton: Oh, absolutely. And it’s been my pleasure. All right. Until next time. This is Stone Payton for our guest today, Jeff Weninger with law enforcement consultants and everyone here at the Business RadioX family saying, we’ll see you in the fast lane.