Teresa Brazen with Brazen Leadership Development

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Stone Payton: Welcome to the High Velocity Radio show, where we celebrate top performers producing better results in less time. Stone Payton here with you this afternoon. You guys are in for a real treat. Please join me in welcoming to the broadcast with Brazen Leadership Development. Teresa Brazen, how are you?

Teresa Brazen: I’m good. Thank you so much for having me. I’m glad to be here.

Stone Payton: Oh, I have so been looking forward to this on air conversation. And I think maybe a great place to start is if you could share with me in our listeners mission. Purpose, what is it that you are really out there trying to do for folks? Teresa.

Teresa Brazen: Um, I love this question. Um, so here’s the thing. Businesses are designed generally not to care about people. They’re designed to make money. Right at the end of the day, that’s that’s their ultimate goal. And that is why I think we need good people who care about people to run companies. And I want to see a world where caring leadership is the standard. It’s not the exception. And where that kind of leadership drives both healthy team culture, where people thrive and financial success. And the research shows those two things work in tandem. So it’s not rocket science. But what I’m seeing in the world is a lot of very transactional leadership that’s very self-referential and not necessarily the kind that I think is in service of the greater good of human beings. So the work that I do is all about helping leaders who care about people become the kind of leader that other people want to follow. You know that type of leader that you may have worked with at some point in your life that lifts people up, lifts their team up, amplifies their impact, and creates work cultures where people are really thriving and excited to come to work and doing excellent work. So that’s that’s the big picture. But that that might sound easy. There are a lot of great leaders out there who have really good intent, but they’re struggling. And, you know, some of the things I often see are, you know, leaders who are running on empty, they’re putting out fires all the time rather than being able to think strategically, or they have a team that isn’t really acting with agency and they’re not really taking ownership of results, or they’re not producing really innovative work. They’re just sort of doing the same old, same old, or they’re struggling with cross-functional relationships in very siloed environments where they have to partner with people across lines to get their work done. But that’s really hard. And so, you know, I help people work through those challenges so that they can be more effective leaders and get more of this kind of, um, people based, inspirational approach to leadership out into businesses more.

Stone Payton: So what brought you to the profession? What’s your backstory?

Teresa Brazen: Yeah. So I, um, I actually started out both in the nonprofit world and as a visual artist long ago, and I then I moved into the world of design. And, and I bring up my past experience because, um, the two things that inspired me early, early on were, you know, in the nonprofit world, it’s all about it is about helping people, right? And in the art world, it’s about creativity. So when I moved into design, it was a little of both. Right. Um, there’s a particular kind of design that I used to work in called human centered design. And it’s about making products and services that really support people and help them to achieve their goals in delightful and useful ways. So that field sort of brought together those two loves. And then I ended up, um, moving into professional development. I did a lot of teaching creative leaders how to be more effective leaders. And I ultimately the thing that I loved about my work then I was running a team. I scaled that team globally is, you know, helping people, um, grow and helping people have those like one of my favorite moments, for example, if I was teaching a class about leadership is these aha moments that I could see in people’s eyes, you know, that click where they’re like, oh my gosh, I’ve been thinking about this in a way that isn’t serving me. I should totally try this other way of leading. And then they go out and practice it. So I don’t know if I answered that very well.

Stone Payton: Well you did. I’m also curious about the transition from doing that kind of work and jumping into this profession. Not only the work itself, which I definitely want to dive into here in a moment, but also like the business side of it, like just getting the clients and, you know, and running a your own business like that. Mhm.

Teresa Brazen: Yeah. Yeah. I um, I call myself an unexpected entrepreneur because I actually got into building my own coaching practice, which I’ve had for um, I think going on five years now. Um, actually it started early in the pandemic. So I was running a learning and development, um, line of business, and I was teaching people how to lead. And I ran a team that did that. And, um, we were shut down very, very early on because all of our classes were in person. And it was a very jarring moment because, you know, I had an amazing team and we were very mission driven. Everybody was really committed to helping people become better leaders. Um, so it was hard when that transition happened. But, you know, I did what people do when facing the unexpected, and I just recalibrated and I thought about what I’d like to do and what did I love most about my work. And I ended up deciding to get certified in coaching with the International Coaching Federation. Um, and people were asking me to coach and to facilitate workshops, and my business sort of unfolded. Um, and, and there was a certain point where I looked around and I was like, oh my gosh, I am a business owner. And not only that, I’m an entrepreneur. Um, and so I’ve been, you know, I think one of the things I really enjoy about my work is that one, I get to see the impact of my work very directly in real time, which not everybody gets to do in their work. Um, so I see teams do things differently because of the conversations and the work that we the conversations we have in the work we do together or individuals. Um, but also I’m very stimulated by the business side, um, like learning. To me, it’s very creative as well. And it’s really challenging. It’s very intellectually stimulating, um, challenging and stimulating too. So I’m learning all the time which any good job, you know, is a job where you’re learning constantly.

Stone Payton: So you mentioned being formally credentialed going through this certification process. So it sounds like you’ve had the benefit of of that. And likely, I suspect, the benefit of one or more mentors to kind of help you navigate this, this terrain over the last five years.

Teresa Brazen: Yeah, yeah, I’ve had I mean most coaches have coaches, so I’ve definitely had coaches that have helped me with my own coaching practice and also with like building a business. Um, and, and I will also say to some degree was doing some of this work because I ran a team before. Right. And, and, um, and I had learned a lot about how to lead and, um, not necessarily. Well, even the business side, when I was in, in my prior job, I was running a line of business and I scaled it globally to ten countries. So I had to figure out, not by myself, obviously, with a team of people, but we had to figure out together, um, how to help offices and ten other countries, um, sell training, sell leadership development. Um, and we had to teach them how to teach. They didn’t teach and they didn’t sell teaching. So, um, so I learned some there too.

Stone Payton: So let’s talk about the work. And one of the things that kind of brought you into our circle and put you on our radar, and one of the main reasons I wanted to have this on air conversation is to learn more about this inspirational leadership model. Can you speak to that some?

Teresa Brazen: Yeah, yeah. So this is a leadership model that I developed to help leaders elevate their mindset and their behaviors and skills so that they can inspire really exceptional work. And those, you know, that that thriving workplace culture that I was talking about earlier. So it really emphasizes leading from within and acting as a catalyst for the growth of your team and the people around you. So it’s um, it’s a compass, inspirational leadership compass. And it’s intentionally that because, um, there, you know, the, the ways in which you need to flex your leadership vary. They vary by person. Like what you know, Stone, what you’re strong in might be different than what I’m strong in. And where you need to work might be different than where I need to work, right? Um, and also, it’s, you know, the ways in which you need to flex your leadership varies by environment, too. And what’s happening. Right? So, you know, I’m talking I have a client right now who is, um, about to have to lay a bunch of people off. And so, you know, in that case, he’s thinking a lot about what kind of leader he wants to be through that process. Um, how to do that in a humane and a humane way? Um, but, you know, someone else might be, um, let’s say, you know, they, they just their team just doubled in size. They inherited a new a team from another part of the business. And so they’re having to step into leadership in a different way. And the things that they have to work on are different in those different contexts.

Teresa Brazen: So, um, I just say that, you know, to, to say that it’s Intentionally, um, not linear. It’s supposed to be like a compass. Adapted to context. So there’s five pieces of it. There are. And I think of these as. Where they are, there are five components of what can help someone to become a more. Inspirational leader. So one piece is purpose. Um, and that’s about clarifying and leveraging. Both a personal and an organizational purpose to guide decisions and to inspire commitment. Um, another piece is energy management, which is about prioritizing self-care and. Promoting healthy team dynamics to sustain high performance without burnout. Um, there are a lot of leaders that I interact with at. One of the first things we figure out is like, oh, we got to work on energy management because you can’t even do the work of coaching and evolve your leadership if you don’t. You have no energy left in your battery. Um, influence is another piece, and that’s about, you know, learning how to more effectively navigate organizational dynamics, um, how to, to do strategic relationship building, how to be a persuasive communicator. Um, innovation is another piece. So that’s really around cultivating a culture where creativity and innovation just naturally flourish. Um, and then the last piece is unleash, and that is empowering other people and unleashing their potential and their their leadership abilities because, you know, the sum is greater than the parts. If you can unleash the leadership potential within your whole team, you’re all going to get a lot further. So that’s high level. Those are that’s what it’s about.

Stone Payton: And the mechanism for the work is that one on one, is it group facilitation speaking or maybe a little bit of all that.

Teresa Brazen: Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. Um, it’s one on one coaching. Well, it depends. So very tailored. Um, I use it in my one on one coaching, for example. Um, and we might identify different areas to work on in coaching, but when I’m working with a team, for example, um, it might be so one on one coaching, uh, workshops around each of those areas. I have longer like a inspirational leadership program for leadership teams that’s, you know, over a much more extended period of time where we go deep on all those things. And the the big thing I would say about how I approach all of this is I am very much, um, an advocate for experimentation. Um, I, I want people to try things and try things that are uncomfortable but not have the pressure of getting it right. Wow. So a lot of, a lot of the work that I do is around helping people figure out what are or working with teams, individual or teams. Um, what are, you know, micro experiments that they can conduct to practice new skills or a new mindset or a new behavior? Um, in new ways. So even as as I’ll give you an example, um, one of my clients, um, is a product leader and has, uh, got some poor performance reviews.

Teresa Brazen: Um, but is has really great intention, wants to be a really great leader and manages a team. And one of the things that we realized thinking about influence and the way that he was influencing the behavior within his own team and with his partners, is that he was leading in a very directive way. So when we would have conversations, um, he usually began with what he needed or wanted or his perspective. And so he made one small shift, which was to focus on every meeting that he went to, whether it was a direct report or another partner or leader, is to remind himself before he went in to, um, lead with curiosity. And rather than beginning with what he wanted or needed or his perspective, he began with questions. And so he’d ask more to understand more about their perspective and what they needed as a starting point. And immediately his relationship started changing. And that’s that’s a very accessible kind of experiment. Do you see what I’m talking about?

Stone Payton: I do. And it strikes me as an incredibly powerful shift that probably had some tremendous impact very quickly. What I’m trying to envision is both in a group environment and individually. You must have to create a level of trust well beyond what a radio host has to.

Teresa Brazen: Yeah, well, you do a good job of it too. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, people need to know that I or anybody else that I bring in that’s, um, doing this work with me that we will one know what we’re doing? Do you mean trust in in me, or do you mean in as in in themselves or within a team? What? Actually, let me clarify that for me.

Stone Payton: Yeah. Well, I think maybe. Yes, across the board. Like I’m envisioning me as a participant. Right. So I’ve got to trust the room of people. I’ve got to trust the environment that you’ve created so that I really can try on some of these, uh, these new behaviors and approaches in a truly safe environment. I’ve got to trust you then. But, you know, maybe I gotta trust myself, too, to open up a little bit and take the mask off for a little while.

Teresa Brazen: Yeah. You know, it’s funny, I was just writing a a LinkedIn post today about, um, acting before you feel the way you want to feel. So let’s see if I can make this make sense. So, um, the reason I like experiments and micro experiments is it forces people to try something, even if they don’t feel like they’re ready for it. Mhm. So on one hand yes there is. You have to build trust. But also if you wait to feel like you trust yourself, for example, you’ll never do the thing that you’re afraid to do.

Stone Payton: Mhm.

Teresa Brazen: Right. So there’s, there’s a little of both. Like I obviously have to build trust with my clients. Right. And they need to know both that I know what I’m doing, but also that I care about them, that I really am in it for their wellbeing. Well-being. I’m not just trying to, like, sell a program. Right? Um, I, I also need to help them, um, build more trust in themselves. But what I know is that you build more trust and confidence in yourself through action, because it starts to teach your brain that something’s different. So whatever patterns you have, like narratives you have going on in your mind around like that, you can’t do something, let’s say, like, you think you’re not a good public speaker. And so you, like, shy away from doing presentations. Um, the best way through that is to actually start doing it and know that you’re going to be uncomfortable for a while until you start building new patterns in your own brain. And over time, if you practice uncomfortable things enough, you become more comfortable with them and they become a part of who you are. A great example is I was terrified to teach. I got into teaching and for the first I was teaching people who were CEOs, um, VP’s, you know, like very high level folks in these leadership classes and, and and they, um, they had more experience than I did. Terrifying. I mean, imagine that, right? Like, I’m going to teach these people something about leadership. Um, and for the first six months of that job, I, I mean, honestly, I just felt like ill all the time. And I remember thinking at a certain point, I don’t think this is the right job for me. Like, I can’t imagine feeling this terrified all the time. Like, this isn’t sustainable. But around six months, I had done it enough that my internal internal feelings about it changed. And now I’m super comfortable. Like, I mean, it’s not like I never get nervous, but in general, I’m I’m very comfortable in that space. Um, and it was the action that got me there.

Stone Payton: So what have you discovered? That is the art and science or approach or discipline or rigor, whatever it is that, um, that allows the change to or gives the change a reasonable chance at really sticking. You know, you have this great two day experience or this great one on one session. Yeah.

Teresa Brazen: Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, I feel like I’m going to repeat myself a little bit, but I’ll give you an example. So it’s, um, repeated action. Mhm. I mean, at the end of the day that really is what it is, is you have to you usually don’t get it right the first time or the second time. Right. And, and the other piece I would say is reflection. Um, I’m a, I mean, the way that you in learning and development, like what we know is that the moment of learning and insight actually happens in reflection. It’s not even just the action. You have to reflect on the action. So in coaching, um, you know, I’m often creating a space for individuals or teams to reflect on what did we just learn from the thing we tried? And then how does that change or does it change? Um, that action moving forward? Should we iterate on what we were trying out? So, you know, for example, I go back to the manager who was trying to, um, act with curiosity. Right. Um, maybe the first few times I’m making this up because I don’t know exactly. But, you know, maybe the first few times he had conversations, people looked at him like he was weird because it was a totally different way of being. Right. Um, and, you know, maybe we talk about that, and then and then in reflection, he realizes there are some modifications he could make to the way he’s opening up those conversations. And so he tries a modified version of it. Do you follow?

Speaker4: I do.

Teresa Brazen: Um. Oh, gosh. There was something I was going to say. What was your question again?

Stone Payton: Well, I was just asking about driving that lasting change and having it go well beyond the fervor of, you know, the afternoon of day two, which is awesome, you know, or whatever. Yeah.

Teresa Brazen: Yeah, yeah. Okay, I got it. Um, the other thing I would say is so it’s repeated action, it’s reflection, and it’s time. I love doing workshops. They’re so fun. And you can really get deep with people and they can have big aha moments. But you know, and I know that there is a high likelihood that everybody is going to go right back to business as usual.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Teresa Brazen: So when I, um, work with clients and they want me to do a workshop, I, I always try to convince them to let me do at least one, hopefully a few more follow up sessions that are they can be very short, you know, they can be like two hours and they can be remote. But, um, they are basically accountability, reflection and iteration sessions. So I bring them back together and we talk about what did you try, what worked and what didn’t work. What did you learn and what will you do moving forward? And if we can do multiple of those, it keeps people coming back to the work. So, um, yeah, that would be another piece.

Stone Payton: Well, that makes all the sense in the world. I’m so glad I asked.

Teresa Brazen: Yeah. It’s also why my, my preference is to, to do programs with, with teams over time or in the case of coaching, like I don’t do one off coaching, I don’t do just a session. Right. Um, I do multiple sessions over time.

Stone Payton: So what are some signs to look for or some things that might be happening in my personal or professional life that as an individual, I should be thinking, hey, maybe I should engage a coach or as a leader looking around the organization. You know, maybe we should bring someone in here to work with our group. Are there some things we should be looking for? That tell us? Yeah, maybe something we should consider.

Teresa Brazen: Yeah. So, um, that’s a good. And I’ll think about I’ll talk about this through two lenses. So for an individual, you know, some common signs that a coach could be helpful would be you don’t have time to think you are. You’re totally caught up in busy work. You don’t have space to think strategically or in a zoomed out way about what you should do next, either career wise or even just at work. Um, or you’re burnt out. That’s a big sign that you need to pause and recalibrate. Um, it can be things as like you’re flying off the handle a lot at work. Um, you’re, you know, snapping at people and regretting it after. And it’s becoming a pattern. So there’s something going on. Um, maybe you feel stuck in your career. It feels misaligned, but you’re frozen by the idea of actually trying to act on it. Or similarly, you have a big a big goal like, um, you want to move up to an executive position or you want to start your own business, you know, like it could be anything but something that feels daunting, um, is a great time to bring in a coach. Um, other things would be imposter syndrome. So, you know, you feel like a fraud, and it’s holding you back from taking the next step in your career. Um, or you’re having challenging relationships, especially, you know, I work a lot with leaders on their cross-functional partnerships.

Teresa Brazen: Um, and for a team, you know, I would say the big thing I often work with teams on is actually helping them to become a team. Um, and what I mean by that is many times, and I’ve experienced this myself. I’ve been on a leadership team. Great people. We all got along, but we weren’t a team. We were individuals responsible for our own parts of the business, and we didn’t have any real shared goals. Um, and we didn’t lean on each other for support. We just when we got together, it was basically status updates, right? Here’s what’s going on with my part of the business. Here’s what’s going on with yours. Um, so if you have a team that feels like that, um, that’s that can be a good time to bring in a coach to or a new team is forming. I’ve been doing a lot of work with, uh, teams that are that are just being gelled together and helping them come up with operating principles, which are, uh, just basically some agreements around, um, what what kind of team they want to be together and how they’ll show up for each other and how they will make decisions and act together so that they can be really intentional about the culture they they build between each other.

Stone Payton: Yeah. So how do you pick the right coach? I mean, I don’t even feel like I would know what questions to ask. Like, if I were talking to 2 or 3, like, what kind of questions I would. Yeah. Any insight on that?

Teresa Brazen: Well, the biggest thing I would say is chemistry. I mean, it’s it’s deep and personal work, even on a team level. Um, and you, you want to work with someone that you feel a connection with? Um, partly because of what you brought up earlier, which is trust. You need to build trust with this person, right? Yeah. You know, I would say giving coaching is a really there’s there’s a whole landscape of coaches, right? And coaching actually kind of means different things to different people. Given that it’s a, it’s such a, I would say inconsistent industry. Um, you know, if you’ve never found a coach before, I would recommend looking for somebody that has some kind of certification in the International Coaching Federation is a good one. They’re like the governing body of coaches, and it all it does is help you feel calm or actually not just helps you feel confident. You can be confident that that person has gone through training specifically to learn how to coach. They’ve been observed, they’ve been given feedback, they’ve worked with people for a decent amount of hours where they have enough practice under their belt. You know, that’s not to say that someone who’s not certified is not necessarily great because they are. It’s just certification can be a way to help you narrow the pool to to people that have, um, have some training in it. Um, I’m trying to think of what else. And then I think the other thing is like, does their approach resonate with you? So I described to you my approach is very experimentation forward. If that resonates, then we might be a great pair. If that isn’t something that naturally appeals to you, then my approach might not be the right fit for you. And then lastly, if you know there’s a certain area that you want to work on, you know, like let’s say it’s, um, leadership development specifically, then you probably want to work with somebody who works with people on leadership development, right? Um, or if you want to do career change, you may be able to find a coach that has experience with that.

Stone Payton: So really, this chemistry thing, I mean, you may be talking to a very competent, well accomplished practitioner, but if the chemistry’s not right, I mean that really, because it goes back to the trust thing we were talking about the whole bit. Right?

Teresa Brazen: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a partnership. That’s what coaching is. It’s a partnership. It’s you and I are deciding together that we are we’re going to roll our sleeves up and we’re going to help you get to a goal that is really important to you, and you’ve got to be able to lean into that person. And yeah, chemistry is is one very telling way to know whether you could roll your sleeves up with them.

Stone Payton: I’m going to switch gears on you here for a moment, if I might, and ask. Hobbies, interests, pursuits, passions outside the scope of of your professional work. Anything you nerd out about?

Teresa Brazen: Yes. Um. I have recently been taking ballroom dancing classes. Um, specifically Latin dancing. I, I love salsa dancing, but I’ve never until recently, you know, taken classes from a ballroom teacher. Um, so that’s been super fun. And then I love I love outdoors exercise. I love being in the outdoors. I love hiking, um, nature travel. I I’m a travel geek.

Stone Payton: Me too. I, I haven’t picked up salsa dancing, but I certainly like to travel. I did buy dancing lessons one time, and then we never went. That didn’t get me a lot of points.

Teresa Brazen: Uh, you can learn. You can learn. Stone. You know, the reason I got interested in it is I went to a ballroom dancing competition, and I was amazed that there was every age range. There were literally people in their 90s competing. I’m not kidding. And and I was like, and there were kids and there was every age in between. And I was like, oh my gosh, I didn’t. In my mind, it was going to be, you know, like 20 something people that were amazing and they were all good in their own way. But I was just like, oh my God, I would love to learn something that I can do, you know, basically until I can’t move anymore.

Stone Payton: So, well, it goes back to your experiential and experimental nature.

Teresa Brazen: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stone Payton: Hey, listen, before we wrap, you know, the tagline of the show is producing better results in less time. Let’s, uh, if we could, I’d love to leave the listeners with a pro tip.

Teresa Brazen: Yeah. So better results in less time. Um, one thing that can help you get better results in less time at work is being more intentional about your relationships with partners, and a technique for doing that is to create something that’s called a persona. In the design world, it’s basically a summary of what are the goals, motivations, behaviors, pain points, and challenges that this type of person faces. Um, so a lot of times with my clients, I have them identify who are a few key partners that they need to build better relationships with and for, you know, a week they will observe them. They might have a conversation with them to learn more about some of those things I just talked about and the exercise of doing that. So it takes a minute to do that, right? To be intentional about like, okay, what unpacked? What do I know about them, and what more do I need to know about them to understand what makes them tick as a person? But it’s sort of the slow down to speed up thing if you invest a little bit of time to do that. It enables you to be much more effective in the way that you communicate and engage with that person, and that ultimately speeds up everything that happens later, because so much of work is really just about relationships.

Stone Payton: It really is. And what marvelous advice. If our listeners would like to continue to tap into your work, reach out, maybe have a more comprehensive conversation with you. What’s the best way for them to do that?

Teresa Brazen: Um, they can reach out. I have a website. Uh, Theresa. Brazen. Com which soon will be brazen leadership development. Com. Um, and they also can email me at Theresa. Theresa brazen.com and I’m on LinkedIn. I’m very active on LinkedIn. I share lots of leadership tips there. So if that’s something you’re interested in, you can get a little taste four times a week. And there’s also some tools on my on my website that you know, are relate to some of the topics that we’ve talked about that are free and you can download. So some resources that they could check out.

Stone Payton: Theresa, this has been an inspiring and invigorating conversation. I have thoroughly enjoyed the visit. You’re clearly doing important work. Keep up the good work and thank you so much for joining us.

Teresa Brazen: You are welcome. Thank you. Stone, it’s really nice to be here with you.

Stone Payton: Absolutely. My pleasure. All right. Until next time. This is Stone Payton for our guest today, Theresa Brazen with brazen leadership development and everyone here at the Business RadioX family saying we’ll see you in the fast lane.