Daya Naef: Why the Future of AI Depends on Human Connection

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Houston, Texas. It’s time for Houston Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Trisha Stetzel: Hello, Houston. Trisha Stetzel here bringing you another episode of Houston Business Radio. It is my pleasure to introduce you to my guest today, Daya Naef, attorney, business strategist, podcast host, and fractional chief AI officer at the Success Partner. Daya helps organizations integrate artificial intelligence into their operations, leadership, and growth strategies. But her perspective may surprise you. While many people view AI as a technology conversation, Daya believes the real opportunity lies at the intersection of innovation and human connection. Former attorney, mediator, adjunct professor and now AI strategist has delivered more than 3000 hours of coaches, excuse me, coaching and spoken at dozens of events nationwide on leadership, AI and the future of professional services. Through her work with law firms and mid-market companies, she helps leaders move beyond AI experimentation and into meaningful business results. She is also a longtime podcast host and passionate advocate for relationship based business development, believing that as technology advances, authentic human relationships become even more valuable. Daya, welcome to the show.

Daya Naef: Thank you Trisha. I’m very excited to be here.

Trisha Stetzel: I’m so excited to have you on. Your energy is just pouring into my screen and I love it. Tell us a little bit more about who you are.

Daya Naef: Absolutely. I think you I think you covered the gambit. Um, and I think my diverse background and put together as the sort of Venn diagram or ikigai of those things that you described about me, puts me in a very unique situation to be able to serve, serve my clients, serve businesses, and if not to ideally idealistically benefit the legal industry as a whole, which then of course, will, will benefit the business world and the people world and all that together. All as one.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. All right. I want to dive right in because I think the conversation around this human in the middle or human connection is so important in the world that we’re living in today. So everyone seems to be talking about AI replacing people. You took a totally different view on that. What do you believe human relationships actually? Or why do you believe human relationships actually become more important as AI becomes more capable.

Daya Naef: Absolutely. I mean, there’s no replacing the trust, the likability, the, you know, in business, they always say you do business with someone you like and you trust. And, you know, AI simulates a lot of empathy or can simulate a lot of conversation. But basically what it’s doing is it’s taking patterns and it’s mirroring what you’re putting in as information. So there’s always going to be a risk that it just agreeing with you or being a yes person and a yes person never helps you develop in life.

Trisha Stetzel: It’s so true.

Daya Naef: So I think there’s going to be, and you already see it a little bit with some of the reactions to, say, AI only media channels. So you’re seeing those kind of being hit or miss or even AI flooding into mainstream media, such as like Instagram and Facebook. So you’re seeing people veer more toward The live productions more toward that, the obviously human productions. And in a way it’s kind of the blooper effect. It’s like, okay, what is this real human going to do? Because we know the AI is too perfect and polished, something that we’re really, really deepening that connection. And especially coming out of Covid. I know we’ve been out of Covid a while now, but something that we learned from Covid is even the most introverted of us needs connection.

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm, mhm. Yes. Human connection is part of who we are, right? It’s a necessity for us to learn and grow and behave the way that we do. How does this play into because you come from this legal space of being an attorney and a mediator, how does AI play in that space with that industry?

Daya Naef: Yeah. I mean, right now it’s the most behind as far as practical application of AI. Um, I just did a survey of my, A my readership, my my people and my contacts, uh, attorneys, firm attorneys. And, you know, it came back really still hit and miss. You know, I do a lot of public speaking and I kind of just gauge the temperature of the audience. I’ve been speaking on AI for about three and a half years now and sort of gauging the temperature as I go. And it’s gone in waves. And I, and I feel I kept feeling like, okay, it’s here now, it’s here now. But then there would be a huge setback. There would be some sanctions that would come back and come out and would have a huge chilling effect. But then it would be a marketing campaign that would come out from some of the large legal specific players. And then there would be a there would be an upswing. And then and then there would be something that came out like the, the recently, a lot of the privilege cases and work product privacy cases that have come out. And so then there was another chilling effect. And it’s really going to be saturated. I mean, there’s going to be a forced Saturation that comes into the legal market very soon. I say by the end of the year, there will have to be policies and procedures in place at every firm, whether you really want them or not, or where you or where you feel like you’re using AI or not. Um, because the sort of dirty secret is you are using AI, whether you know it or not.

Trisha Stetzel: This is true. So I want to, I don’t want to get too technical because I want to keep it on the human aspect. But I do want to talk about the definition of AI because I think oftentimes, particularly those that are in the small to midsize business arena or those who just aren’t really utilizing it yet, think of AI as a chat bot and it’s so much more than that. So can you like bring us all in and give us a little better definition of what artificial intelligence actually is?

Daya Naef: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, ChatGPT came out and it was like the consumer direct to consumer AI and kind of swept across Really basically every audience. And then when you get deeper into using it for business purposes. So, you know, first it came out as entertainment and it came out as, you know, write me a funny haiku or something like that. And then people started looking at the business use cases for it. But still, what I’m seeing is people are using it like the drive through window. You know, they go up and they say, okay, I want a number six with a Diet Coke, you know, and it does that. And but what they’re not realizing is if they adapt it and, and bring it in, integrate it into the system, or if you or if you feel more comfortable, you know, putting it out, bringing it in, however you want to describe that is it actually has a seat at the table. It actually has a seat not in, not in necessarily the leadership sense where it’s going to have this, this voice, but it’s going to be at least there as an assistant or as a junior associate. It’s going to have an integrated part in your in your office, in your work world, in your day to day, in your life at home. You know, it’s we’re seeing it more at home than in the office scenario. But if you if you think about taking it away from a transaction and into a relationship, that’s where you’re going to see the benefit.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. How does this play into the coaching role? So in your bio, I let the audience know that you’ve got over 3000 hours of just coaching in this space. So that’s a human in the middle.

Daya Naef: Mhm.

Trisha Stetzel: I hear a lot of coaches talking about, oh my gosh, AI is going to replace the coaching industry. What are your thoughts on that?

Daya Naef: Yeah. Absolutely cannot. And I’m speaking at another conference on that on access to service and mental health and how we’re going to develop both as practitioners and as how to educate the public on what is a safe AI versus what is not safe for you to use it as your, your thought companion or your therapist, if you will. Uh, where are these things going to be beneficial and where you have to put guardrails and restrictions on them in order to not water down the quality or to not lead people down the wrong road? Um, and so my coaching actually where the rubber meets the road and what I actually do every day, the coaching comes in with the behavioral change and working with people, I say I’m the one who shows up with the box of tissues. I’m the one who has the, the cone of silence. Like you can actually tell me why you hate what your firm chose, or why you felt like you should have been in the decision making process and you weren’t, or helping you be in that process. Like be a leader. Hey, you know what? I’m just the legal assistant. Whatever. I said, yeah, but you’re going to be the one with your hands on the keyboard or speaking into the the voice, as is more common now, you’re going to be the one with the day to day, you know, the senior partner who’s the rainmaker, then they may or not, they may or not, may not be the interface, the direct interface to the AI in your firm. And you are.

Trisha Stetzel: All right. I want to talk about leaders and leadership development. The actual people aspect of all of this. So I, as leaders or owners or founders, CEOs, whatever title we carry, how do we keep our people engaged from a human aspect when we’ve got so much automation out there?

Daya Naef: It’s always been a challenge. It’s always been a challenge. And again, that sort of human ness leaning, leaning into your authenticity as a leader, I know that’s come in and out again. It’s another thing that kind of came in vogue and then went out. So we went, we were doing that empathetic leadership, and then all of a sudden that went out and said, no, no, our productivity, productivity. So I think we’re probably going to see another swing back to the empathy and putting the empathy and the EQ back into leadership in order to build stronger people through this revolution, if you will, or through this kind of tsunami of change in especially the legal industry. But in all industries, people are going to need more support. They’re going to need more human to human heart centered support. And that sounds a little bit juxtaposed with also this huge productivity and efficiency gains that we’re going to be seeing with AI, but we have to learn how to communicate with it and communicate with each other even more. So since we can kind of just outsource a lot of thinking to it, you know, we’re building a second brain, we’re building little mini mes and clones, and we’re having people talk to those clones, but where do we really come into the real data, the real Trisha? Like, how do we come in and be even, you know, Uber authentic? Yeah.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay. So I’m seeing such a big opportunity here to start building more, better relationships with people. And I like that. But that’s just who I am, right? I’m just like, yes, this sounds amazing. Okay, um, tell us we’ve gotten a peek into the work that you’re doing. But tell me more about the success partner, the work that you’re doing, and the clients you serve.

Daya Naef: Yeah, absolutely. So the success partner, um, came, came up, um, came about in 2018. So when I took a step back from practicing law and more a step into that human or even more human connection, I was realizing that, you know, my brothers and sisters of the practice, um, excellent practitioners, excellent tacticians, not so much not so good with the bedside manner. And I said, well, we could really lean into that. And like a series of both professional and personal changes that kind of came along at that time. I took a break from everything and I dove into coaching school. So in 2018 into 2019, I was coaching school, building my network, changing my, changing my service offerings to, to be that person that I thought our industry and our profession needed. So I can thank my, I think my, my former paralegal, who also does marketing and media for helping me come up with the name because this is what we do. We’re a partner. We are a partner in your firm, helping the firm in and of itself be more successful on a variety, on a variety of fronts and a variety of ways. Yes.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay. I love it. So if listeners are already ready to connect with you, what’s the best way for them to reach out?

Daya Naef: Absolutely. Email Dana at the success partner.com. I’m all over social media. Like you mentioned, I have a podcast. I’m on LinkedIn, Twitter. Um, what’s the other one? Tiktok. So my, my social media folks keep me very omnipresent. So I’m not, not difficult to find.

Trisha Stetzel: All right. And for those of you just listening today, his name is spelled DAYA last name Naifeh NAEF, so that you can find her in all of the most logical places, because that’s where we are. And that’s how I found you. Um, let’s talk for a minute about your podcasting. I know you’ve got two that are out there, so tell us more.

Daya Naef: So the Success Partner podcast named after my, my brand is the longest running and I interview people who are great resources. So not only are they successful in their business, they offer success as a service. So I have a lot of fractional CFOs, um, fractional marketing people. Um, I have some very interesting people like breath workers. And um, I have a financial therapist, so I have some very interesting people that are all their goal is supporting other people. So they share a little bit about how they develop their business. And they also share about how they help others developing the business. And then I have one that is AI specific. So it’s at ai dot law. Um, I think I maybe have about ten episodes so far. I talked to practitioners who are using AI or other legal technology, and I also have demos of products that people have have developed that serve the legal industry, where I can come on and show a brief demo so they don’t have to. So you don’t know if you’re curious about something. You don’t have to set up a sales call necessarily with the company. You can actually see a snippet of it with no, no strings attached on that, on that particular podcast.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. All right, you guys, I’m going to put those in the show notes. So if you’re sitting at your computer, you can certainly point and click to go find those podcasts. I’m also assuming Dia that they can go to your website and there’s probably a link there. You guys can visit the success partner.net to find the links for those. If you’re just listening, okay, you’re a giver. I’m a giver. We had this conversation before, So we, you and I both, um, had this belief in giving before getting. Uh, and let’s square that up with business relationships today because that’s what we’re talking about. So how does that philosophy fit into an increasingly automated world?

Daya Naef: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, why why I have while I use tools to like, keep in touch with my network and send out information, of course, newsletters and such, the actual 1 to 1 conversations are still the most important way to connect or even the podcast interviews like this is how we are really getting. You and I are getting to know each other. Uh, you listeners out there, we’re getting to know each other. And it really is a combination of things, you know, it’s keeping yourself top of mind. So when people need your services, but also showing that we’re not in this alone, we are in this together, you know, especially those of us who are Uber small businesses, then we need support. You know, even even that much more as we as we move through really even, even seasonality right now, you know, we’re going into summer, people are looking at booking things for the fall, but people are also looking at what do I need to do over the summer to stay connected or reboot or whatever summer means for you? Um, and you may feel like you’re alone with that, but if you have a deep network, you can reach out and you say, what are you doing? You know, maybe we, maybe we’ll set some accountability or maybe we’ll look at, um, bouncing some ideas off of each other. What do you think of this content? What do you think about should I, should I take some time and invest in writing a book? Like what should I be doing right now as far as seasonality in my, in my business? And that’s summer season versus, you know, five years in business season, which whichever, however you want to look at that.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. And being intentional about those connections. So I was just thinking, you know, people like you and I, I don’t know how much time you spend working behind the screen, but many of us who are owner operators spend a lot of time in our home offices or in a box somewhere. How do we what would you say is the best way to stay intentionally connected or network with other people? When you spend 90 plus percent of your time working from home?

Daya Naef: Yeah. I mean, I do do a lot of online connecting. I do a lot of video calls. I have a Zoom coffee link, and you don’t have to be on Zoom. It can be teams or meet or whatever you want to meet on. But and we may or may not have coffee, it doesn’t matter. But really having those connections and some people I meet with a lot like we, we meet at least once a month and see how we’re. See how we’re doing, see what direction we’re going in, see what kind of feedback we’re getting from our markets, either a common market or different markets. Um, and then of course, you know, getting out, you know, I’m in New Orleans, so we love to get out and I love my coffee shop. So one of my Instagram channels is my coffee shop life and I’m always checking in from where I’m having a good cup of coffee and usually meeting someone. Not always. They’re just plugging away on my laptop. I’m I’m literally meeting with people that are, that are local or maybe even in town for business. I always make sure I know. And, and usually when you offer to meet up with someone in New Orleans, they do take you up on it. So I have people from all over the country, when they’re here for a meeting or a conference or to meet with a client, we we end up meeting face to face. And I love that.

Trisha Stetzel: We have to intentionally do that, which is how you and I got connected, whether it was through someone or direct. And I do all of my networking intentionally online as well, because I live too far away from a coffee shop. Darn it. Push a little, a little closer, coffee, tea, whatever works. Right? Um, all right, I want to shift our conversation from how AI is affecting people to the actual people. So we all know or have been in an organization, maybe even have an organization now where we have critical knowledge trapped inside of our key employees. So how can I help solve some of those problems without losing that human element?

Daya Naef: Yeah, this is this is a wonderful thing. And I have a project idea as well. So I’ll answer the easy question first, the technology being there. So yes, the technology to create a digital twin or an institutional wisdom capture is there. I feel in adding the human element would be having someone like a volunteer myself, you know, interview people a lot of right now, institutional wisdom is, is in the founders, especially in the legal industry. They’re in the founders who are about to retire. So we are having a huge company transfer right now. And I’m such a people person that I actually kind of envision myself following them around on the golf course or meeting them at the club for lunch and capturing some of this, if not the process or the operations of what they do, but more the spirit behind, you know, the culture. Like what was the how did you envision the culture of the firm when you founded it 50 years ago, and how can we let that legacy live on as we are innovating and as a new generation is stepping into your shoes? In fact, it’s like two generations or three generations down now coming into leadership. And so how do we not throw away the historical context of the firm while we, I say firm could be business as we’re passing it on. And I think having those really candid conversations and really capturing those candid conversations in someone’s natural habitat that only a human can really do, and then having it, of course, captured and recreated by an AI, an AI tool, or an AI process.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. All right. I’m in. Let’s just go interview everyone. I love this. I think it’s so much fun. It’s so fantastic. And how many of us know someone that left this world with knowledge that never got passed down or the story didn’t get told? I know a few and gosh, wouldn’t it have been amazing to capture that on audio or video or even on paper, for gosh sakes, right? Oh, I love that. Okay, uh, one more technical thing that I think is really important here is how can our small to midsize businesses, those folks who are listening today, um, how can they compete with larger businesses using AI?

Daya Naef: I think that’s the biggest, I think that’s the biggest market I do. And large firms, you see it every day. They are over spending. They have gobs and gobs of technology that they are buying and the ROI is has not been there for them because they really did it at. They’re really doing it for optics. Their clients say, are you using insert big name software here? And you’ll find, yes, they’re subscribing to it, but they actually don’t know what they’re doing with it. Um, a scrappy small timers like we have to use it. We have to get an ROI on it because it’s really hurting our, it’s hurting our bottom line as we are adding tools and not using them or not training our people on them or not evolving, involving our people and making it part of our ecosystem. So since we are required to have a return on investment, I find this is going to be the biggest leap and the biggest plus for small, small businesses competing with larger businesses.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. All right. So then playing off of that five years from now, what’s going to separate organizations that thrive or have adopted and are using and learning, um, AI enabled tools and those that struggle. So what separates those two?

Daya Naef: There’s going to be a big, a big shift. And then I did a special segment and had two panelists talk about this a few weeks ago on the podcast, we did a special kind of panel episode on a sorting. It’s going to be a sorting factor. And so if you are an expert or you have a niche in what you do deepening, that is going to set you apart from everyone else, you know. And there will also be the, I’m gonna say the bottom level, but I don’t mean bottom, like lower, lower, uh, any, any derogatory way. I mean the bottom like the most processed. So there’s really two ways that you’re going to go. Most people use law since that’s my most familiar industry is, as a lot of us are, you know, good at what we do. We’re practitioners. We cover enough volume to keep the lights on, and we’re as good as we need to be to produce the product and keep the relationships with clients and build the relationships and keep our reputation amongst our peers, which is where we mostly get our business. There’s going to be a shift. There’s going to be people that really dial in to a very specific thing where they are the expert. The AI can never be the expert on it, or mostly can never be the expert at applying something because it’s so entrenched in who we are. But then there’s also going to be those of us who learn to be more automated and more Productized don’t like it. It sounds kind of cheap, but to be more productive and we’re going to be handling things that are too sophisticated for just like a claims form or something that’s already a software as a service, but not at that. We need to hire somebody who’s like a $3,000 an hour expert. So it’s going to fall into maybe 1 or 2 of those camps. And and I’d love to be proven wrong. So.

Trisha Stetzel: All right. Five years from now. And that will not be our next conversation. By the way, we are definitely going to connect more often than that. Uh, all right. As we get to the back end of our conversation, one last question for you. What’s next for Dia and the success partner?

Daya Naef: Oh thank you. Thank you. Um, I think more, I mean, I think being more out there, I love in-person speaking events. So if you’re listening and you have one coming up that’s relevant, I’d love to talk more about that. Um, I did a lot this spring. Maybe maybe a few too many really. Uh, I got, I got to pace myself a little bit more as we move into planning for the fall and planning for the fall season, for speaking and getting my, getting my materials revamped and getting out there to see. Of course, I’ve been invited to so many conferences, but I really have to pick where where I’m going to be most effective in getting the right message to the right people. Um, maybe a book in the works. So I know I’ve said that before, but maybe so, maybe so. Uh, I will keep you posted. Uh, I do have a small group of practitioners that are going through a process that we’re developing. So that might lead to the book coming out. And I’ll have a few coauthors on that since we are working through the process together. So I guess just stay tuned.

Trisha Stetzel: Wow, I love that. That’s so much fun. Dana. All right. One last time. What is the best way for folks to connect with you that are listening today?

Daya Naef: Yes. Dana Naifeh and the success partner.com or you find me, um.com does go to.net. So you can either use either one and, uh, you know, LinkedIn, YouTube, just, uh, just find me. I am, I am out there and love to. Would love to be in touch.

Trisha Stetzel: Oh my gosh, I’m so excited that you came on with me today. I’m honored to have this conversation with you and can’t wait to have the next one.

Daya Naef: Thank you. It’s been great.

Trisha Stetzel: All right, you guys, that’s all the time we have for today. If you found value in this conversation that Diane and I had, please share it with a fellow entrepreneur, veteran or Houston leader ready to grow. Be sure to follow, rate and review the show. It captures more bold business minds just like yours and your business. Your leadership and your legacy are built one intentional step at a time. So stay inspired, stay focused, and keep building the business and the life you deserve.