Dan Ward: How Detroit Labs Solves Complex Problems with Human-Centered Tech

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Houston, Texas. It’s time for Houston Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Trisha Stetzel: Hello, Houston Trisha Stetzel here bringing you another episode of Houston Business Radio. It is my pleasure to introduce you to my guest today, Dan Ward, co-founder and president of Detroit Labs, a digital innovation studio based in downtown, you guessed it, Detroit. Dan has spent his career building and leading teams that help organizations grow through software development, product design, and user centered technology. Under his leadership, Detroit Labs has partnered with brands like GM, Ford, Volkswagen, Domino’s, Jimmy John’s, and Driveway Comm to solve complex problems at the intersection of design, engineering and business strategy beyond client work. Dan is deeply invested in entrepreneurship, entrepreneurship and education, mentoring student founders at Central Michigan University and earning recognition as Cmu’s entrepreneur of the Year and Crain’s 40 under 40 honoree. Dan, welcome to the show.

Dan Ward: Thank you for having me. It’s wonderful. Intro. I appreciate it.

Trisha Stetzel: Yes. You know, I pride myself on doing that because it’s a gift. We don’t always say these things about ourselves. Right. So my gift to you, Dan, um, let’s start with who you are. Tell us more about Dan.

Dan Ward: Yeah. Uh, well, very good point. Uh, everyone struggles talking about themselves. So now I get to talk about myself. But, um, you know, as you mentioned, I’m a proud graduate of Central Michigan University, uh, learned a ton there. I actually have a history degree of all things. So I think I’m qualified to curate a museum. And that’s literally it. A non-teaching one. Uh, great choice on my part. There’s a there’s a lot of great things that come with it. Uh, to be clear, um, and then, uh, I, I’ve spent since then my entire life, uh, in technology. So I had an opportunity to go work at quicken Loans, which is now, uh, rocket. Uh, I had an opportunity there to work directly for Dan Gilbert, uh, who is, uh, our local, um, success story here in Detroit owns the Cleveland Cavaliers as well. And I learned a ton from him. I got to go on all kinds of trips with him, sit in the corner of every meeting you can think of, uh, work on technology for him, presentations. It was just, it was a very interesting about three and a half, almost four years. And from there, we started Detroit Labs and, and we’ve been going ever since 2011. We’re going to be, I think in May, we’ll be celebrating 15 years, uh, a lot of, uh, tremendous growth. And then, um, uh, some ups and downs and then, uh, we’re back on the other side of that, I believe right now. So it’s an exciting time. Um, and, uh, I think, I think starting a business anyways is a bit of a roller coaster. So, uh, it’s, it’s been fun. And then, uh, I can’t ignore the fact that I got an amazing family, two kids, a wife, and I coach pretty much every sport at this point. Um, so I get an opportunity to hang out with my, my oldest, all of his friends. And then now starting with my youngest, uh, in basketball. So it’s fun.

Trisha Stetzel: Oh, that’s fun basketball, indoor sport, baseball. We were teasing about that. So, you know, part of the year it’s a little cold outside and that’s okay. Um, cool. Let’s I’d love to to talk more about Detroit labs, but you mentioned something that really stuck with me, which is the life cycle of your business. And we all go through that. It’s very cyclical, right in the way our businesses come together. So give us just a little bit of the, um, startup pains and kind of where you’re at now with, um, Detroit Labs.

Dan Ward: Sure. Start up pains is an interesting way of putting it. I feel like it doesn’t fully change. Uh, slightly modified. Uh, but we, we started, I mentioned in 2011 with, uh, four co-founders, uh, about a year in one of the other co-founders wanted to go start something else. Uh, he did that, but, uh, the other three co-founders were still in the business. We still run the business together. Amazing partners. We have, uh, really great overlap. Uh, we have different skill sets that complement each other. Uh, we’ve been pretty fortunate enough to have that. And, and I always tell people you’re fortunate if you can find a good co-founder, find a, find a co-founder, doing it yourself is challenging. Um, and then we had a, we had a good string of a lot of great successful years, uh, probably anywhere between 15 to upper 20% growth year over year. It was really great. And then on the other side of Covid, so we made it through that. And then on the other side of that, several of the industries that we were working in, um, they dried up a little bit or they had to change priorities.

Dan Ward: And so several of the clients that we had great relationships with, uh, they just, they, they slowed down and, and specifically they slowed their, their spend in what we have to offer. And so we had a couple lean years that were challenging. So we went through this tremendous, you know, almost ten years of, of growth and then had to go through the unfortunate, uh, a couple rounds of layoffs, which is still painful scars. You, you feel terrible. But, uh, I do feel confident that we’re on the, the other other side of that. And, and, you know, what’s been interesting is making sure, you know, you talk about, um, startup pains, it’s important to learn from those pains. And so really kind of analyzing what took place over the last couple years and not just saying it was the market’s fault. And so we’ve had a lot of that time to process and adjust and change. And so the organization today looks quite a bit different than the organization looked back in probably 2021. So it’s been an interesting path.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, somewhere on that sigmoid curve when we’re talking about the lifecycle of a business is something called reinvention. And it’s so important so that we don’t go into the decline phase and let things just fall apart, right? We do. We’ve got to pay attention to those kinds of things. Congratulations on the 15 years, particularly because you do have co-founders. It, it, it’s, um, sometimes can make it a little more complicated.

Dan Ward: Yeah. You know, I always tell people, um, with, with, especially with a startup. Misery loves company startups can be fun, but a lot of times it can be a pain. And, and to be able to go through that with somebody is, is comforting. Honestly, it sounds cheesy, but it’s just nice because when things get really bad, we can look at each other and be like, we’re both miserable right now, or all three of us are miserable right now, and that’s okay. How do we get how do we get out of that? How do we help each other? You know, pull each other out of that. So that part’s actually been really helpful and great.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. As long as you can remember to get back above the line. Right. Okay, let’s. Misery loves company. Let’s get it out of the way.

Dan Ward: Let’s move.

Trisha Stetzel: Forward.

Dan Ward: We’re also really great at having big drag out arguments and then going and grabbing lunch. So. And no one feels like they’re slighted or anything like that. So we’ve been we’ve been pretty lucky when it comes to that.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. That’s fantastic. Um, before we get into more questions, tell me a little more. Give me some lay terms, layman’s terms on what is it that you’re providing to your customers through Detroit Labs?

Dan Ward: Great question. So we work with large brands. Uh, we, uh, we’re 100% onshore, uh, development design company. And so the best fit we have is with larger brands, and we work with them to unpack some of their either challenges or opportunities. And when I look at challenges, I both speaking internally amongst their different organizations and groups, how maybe they run their business, but then externally with their with their customers, with their clients, what type of friction are they having with them or what type of opportunity can they provide them with? At that point, we start to work through the strategy of that, making sure that whatever we propose has business value, that users are going to actually use the experience. Nothing frustrates me more than seeing companies invest millions of dollars into something that their users don’t actually want, or invest millions of dollars into. Maybe it’s an internal tool that doesn’t feel good and provide value. And you know, people are people. They use apps at home, like, you know, build them something that they want to use. Um, and so anyways, we, we work with them on the strategy side of it. And from there we design the solution for them. Uh, and then we can also build the solution. That’s what’s really great about Detroit labs. So we can own that entire product lifecycle from the earliest conversations to the design of it, to the testing of it, to the development of it and the deployment of it and ongoing support with, uh, staffing as well. So, uh, it’s, it’s fun to be able to go to a client, you know, share an idea, share something really, you hope, hope it’s profound, but then being able to back that up with the ability to actually design and build something with, I mean, the talented folks that we have, it’s really kind of, I’m not one of those. So I get to sit back and say, hey, client, we can build you this really great thing and then look across from me and say, right, we can, right? So that part’s really exciting.

Trisha Stetzel: I, I love that. So can we talk a little bit about technology? You talked about, you know, investing in these things and spending a lot of money and trying to sell something to their clients that they don’t actually need. And I think, you know, when we talk about technology and I’m, I’m not talking about AI will go there in a minute, but what really separates organizations that use technology? Well, right. We’re offering it to them. They’re using technology well from those that are just investing in it.

Dan Ward: Yeah, I think I’ve always kind of told this story to clients. And then also internally at Detroit Labs, I think, you know, you can approach technology through through two lenses or two directions. You can say, I have this piece of technology. How can I make this work? Oftentimes you find that in big group purchases with some of the big technology companies. Oh, as part of that purchase, I got this really great QA software. How do I make that work? Uh, or you can go talk to the end user. That might be internal, that might be external, and try to figure out what it is that they actually need. And then you build the solution. Now, I happen to be a proponent of the talking to the users and figuring out what they need. Now you’re not asking them, uh, you know, a laundry list of all the features they want. You’re saying, what problems are you trying to solve? How are you solving it? What technology do you use today? What technology do you use at home that you really like? You do like the Delta Airlines app, right? Do you like the gmail app? You know, and insert any other app, insert any other website because now you’re starting to kind of get an idea of what they value in their, in their experience outside of work. And then design a solution for that. So, so you start with the, the use case, your understanding how they’re going to use software. You understand that if you built this thing, their life would be better. It would take some version of pain of frustration away from their life. And then you build that solution rather than, I have a piece of technology. How do I find, uh, you know, a place for it. So the best organizations will prioritize the user first, whether that be customer or internal user.

Trisha Stetzel: So this applies to not just technology. I’m thinking about the business owners and leaders that are out there right now saying, I have this product or service and I gotta find somebody to buy it, right?

Dan Ward: It is the exact same thing when I’m working with the students at at CMU. They’ll come up with a really great idea. And I’m like, that’s wonderful. And that is very interesting. Who wants to buy it? And they’re like, well, it’s just a really great product fair. Who wants to buy it? And oftentimes what happens is you’re like, well, you know, my mom wants it or my friend wants it, okay? And that might be valid. You need to go out and start talking to people. And that is one of the things that I’m always pushing the entrepreneurial students to say, to go out and like, speak with people and ask if they, you know, what problems do they have? Not even hey, I have this. Will this solve a thing? Ask them what problem they have and then figure out if your thing will solve it. It’s just a kind of a slightly different way of thinking about it.

Trisha Stetzel: Absolutely. It’s like writing your jokes and never telling them to an audience, right? And, and then you go out on stage and you bomb because you had no idea that your jokes were not funny.

Dan Ward: Yeah, yeah. In your head, they’re the greatest things ever, right?

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, exactly. Made me laugh. Uh, okay. So let’s since we’re here in this space, why don’t we. I know there’s some people who already want to connect with you. Dan, why don’t we give them some contact information? What’s the best way for folks to reach out to you?

Dan Ward: Absolutely. So I think if you want to connect with us through Detroit Labs, we’ll use that Detroit Labs proper. It’s hello at Detroit labs.com. Very simple way to get to us. It’s an inbox that multiple people monitor and we do pay attention to that. Uh, as far as me Finding me on LinkedIn is a is a good location. I will admit I am not the fastest, uh, social media responder in history. Um, it is, uh, I think it’s because I don’t use many social medias, uh, for a lot of reasons, but I do check it and I will, uh, respond. But yeah, hello at Detroit Labs is, is a great place. I’m also down at Detroit Labs. It’s actually pretty easy to figure out emails, uh, with us. So, um, and I do pay attention to that.

Trisha Stetzel: Fantastic. Thanks, Stan. Um, I did mention AI a minute ago and I know you have some thoughts around that. So just thinking about that, um, from your perspective, where is AI genuinely adding value and where is it really just noise?

Dan Ward: Yeah, that’s, uh, that’s a great question because I honestly, I struggle with it. One day I’m like, this is the greatest piece of technology in the history of the world. The other day, I’m like, this is hallucinating and giving me the wrong answers. Can I trust this? And I think I’m constantly existing in a space of, uh, that blend of curiosity and like wondering if I should actually trust and take the time to use this. So we use it in a couple different areas. One, if we’re trying to qualify a client or validate, maybe, you know, a pain in the, in the, you know, industry or vertical jumping into Gemini, ChatGPT, you know, pick whichever one you want to use and asking it to do some of the research on your behalf, I think is very helpful. I think that is really where AI works. I think you still have to double check almost everything, which is the bummer part. Um, but I do think that that can speed up that process of really prospecting and understanding verticals and challenges that companies might face on the, on the code side, we. We try to find areas where we can use it to handle some of the repetitive tasks. For us, it’s a little different because we, um, we produce code for a client. So the client actually owns that code. So there has to be a conversation at the very early stages of can we use AI with your code? Are you okay with that? Um, that leads to an interesting conversation. Sometimes, sometimes it’s easy and sometimes it’s not. Um, on the, on the design side, what’s really interesting is kind of rapid validation of, of, uh, personas.

Dan Ward: Um, you know, okay, I’m looking for a person that’s in the Midwest that, um, is freezing right now, but, uh, a person in the Midwest that likes to, um, buy sandwiches and they have a family. You can use AI to try to kind of build some of those personas. That’s really helpful use case. Um, but we have found, we’re often asked like, hey, are you building AI solutions for clients? And I always feel like we’re just close. We’re, it always feels like we’re in this like stage of rapid prototyping rather than full scale development and deployment. And I think largely it’s because AI can do so much but can be so unpredictable at the same time. I was told by an individual at happens to be at one of the bigger technology companies that, um, AI is the solution in search of a problem. And when they’re looking at deploying AI technologies and they’re going and talking to their big clients, the demo is great. Look what it can do. Oh my goodness, isn’t this amazing? It can talk to me. It can find me answers. Well, how do I use this in my business? And there are some really logical areas customer service, HR, things like that, where you have people just asking a lot of questions and having a self-service AI bot could be really great. But those are also the areas where bad information can be really bad. So it’s kind of this interesting area that we’re in right now. And I would always say, I will say it’s constantly proof of concept land.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. So I’m seeing this very interesting thread through our conversation, which is, uh, you just said a solution looking for a client. So we’ve been talking about that right? All the way through, uh, threaded through our conversation today. And as we think about all of these things, how you in 15 years have built such a successful business, how your, um, helping startups or entrepreneurs that are coming up and helping them think more about what it is that they’re doing or thinking into the future, really having a strategy for where you’re going. I’d love to talk a little bit more about strategic thinking. So first give us your definition of strategic thinking and let’s roll this into the conversation.

Dan Ward: I use a very old term when it comes to strategic thinking, is seeing the forest through the trees and just allowing yourself to kind of back up a little bit and see the bigger picture. And honestly, this is something I joke around about my history degree, but this is something that history taught me because it is the, I don’t know, there’s, there’s very few subjects where you can look at an entire multi generation decade, uh, situation, you know, a war, an event, right? And, and really analyze cause and effect in like a 30 minute time frame. Like what other, what other subject can you do that? And so I really think that, you know, studying history Really kind of promotes the strategic thinking of, okay, I’m going to do this thing in front of me. What are the three, four, five possible consequences for that? And, and, and that is it’s well, it’s something that I always talk to history students about because that, again, a thing I’m really passionate about when it comes to that, but I really think that strategic thinking is being able to step back, understand that whatever it is you’re about to do is going to have consequences. Are they good? Are they bad? How does that kind of cascade and create a web? Um, and so it’s not always easy and it’s not always possible to see that next step out. Uh, but it is a fun challenge.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. The forest through the trees. And I think oftentimes the forest gets in the way of seeing or excuse me, the trees get in the way of actually seeing the bigger picture. So thinking back on your experiences and even working with your students and entrepreneurs that are in startups. How do you get them to shift their mindset and their thinking from the things that I have to do today to get to the end of the month so that I can pay the bills to what is the big picture? What is 90 days, 180 days, three years down the road? What does that look like? So how do you help shift the way these younger, uh, not younger in age, but those who are maybe just starting a business or are still in, uh, you know, neck deep trying to get it going.

Dan Ward: Um, I’m probably always considered the more negative or mean one when it comes to assessing, uh, startups over at Central Michigan. But, um, one of the things I like to try to challenge the students to do is take a step back. You’re in too deep and then get out of your dorm, get out of your apartment and try to really understand if there’s a market for what you’re trying to do. Is there pain or frustration? You know, humans buy in pain and frustration. Pain is such a tough word, but it’s true. And and so really trying to understand and empathize with potential customers. So you know what it is that you’re trying to sell to them or if your product has, has value. I think, um, I think all too often folks like to dream big, but dream big that stays in their head. And to your point of creating jokes and never saying them out loud and you have no idea if it’s if it’s funny or not. A lot of entrepreneurs do that and, and, and really challenging folks to, to get out, expand, get out of your, like I said, get out of your dorm, get out of your classroom, get away from your computer screen. Go out and talk to somebody at a bar, at a restaurant, at an event, uh, do some networking. That’s, that’s always been my feedback. Uh, and I think in all fairness, it’s something that I didn’t learn until later. So I didn’t learn until probably 3 or 4 years into Detroit Labs. The value of going to a networking event, the value of talking to somebody face to face, right? I didn’t learn that until a little bit later. And so it’s one of the things I’m, I’m pretty passionate with telling the students, you know, go to events, meet people and get outside of your, what you see in front of you.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. We gotta go talk to humans. Dan.

Dan Ward: What you know, what’s interesting is we’ve gone through. So I started working with the university before Covid and then worked with them through that. And then now obviously on the other side of that, and I, and I hate to always talk about that time, but it really impacted college kids, uh, college students, I should say. And so you went from a, a hungry get in front of everybody to everyone’s behind their computer and you’re like, wait, you’re telling me I got to go to an event to now there’s just this past year or so, uh, we’ve seen more students that are excited to go to these happy hours we put on that are excited to go talk to a mentor, excited to go talk to a client. It’s, it’s, it’s refreshing and it’s great. And not that the other ones were bad by any means. They just had to live through a different time.

Trisha Stetzel: They did great that cycle. Everything is cyclical. And here we are back again. And as we’re getting to the back end of our conversation, I want to circle back around to something we started with, and I’ve heard you say it a few times through our conversation, which is mentorship. It was a very important to you as you were coming into your business and learning from a mentor, and you now are mentoring others. Can you talk about the importance of both ways?

Dan Ward: Sure. Um, you know, for me, my, my mentor was Dan Gilbert, right? I was incredibly fortunate to be able to, uh, for, you know, almost four years to work directly with him. And that started off as, you know, just tech support. Build a presentation. Right. Um, and then eventually I had an opportunity to, to travel with him, uh, which was, which was interesting, right? Like, you know, you go from, you know, a normal Delta flight to now I’m flying in a, in a small private plane to go to these events. Right. And then I found myself in the room during some MBA meetings. So growing up a big sports fan, that was really neat. Uh, but to Dan’s credit, what he saw was that I started asking more questions. I had a good friend that said, hey, I know this is challenging. Flying everywhere with all these things. It’s tough. It’s hard work, right? And you’re dedicating a lot of your life. He goes, but be a sponge. Really start. You have no idea. Like, look at who you’re traveling with. Look at the meetings you’re in. Be a sponge. And and so I started to ask Dan a lot of questions. And to Dan’s credit, I remember we were in Cleveland and we’d just gotten off the elevator going up to the fifth floor at the Q where the Cavs play.

Dan Ward: And he goes, you seemed really interested in that meeting. And I said, actually I was I was curious, how did it go. You know, because I was I was running a presentation and he goes, do you want to start coming into all my meetings or most of my meetings? And I was like, yeah, sure. That sounds really interesting. And, and he goes, and if you have questions after, I’m happy to answer them. And so Dan gave me the time of day, right? Like he, he saw that I was, I was interested, inquisitive. There’s nothing special or unique about what I was bringing to the table, but he just saw that I was interested and he said, you know what? Why don’t you come in and start sitting in these rooms? And Dan and I, we just happened to get along really great. And and still to this day, keep in touch, which is which is awesome. He was one of the early investors in Detroit labs, but I took that and the value that that gave me, which I will be honest, I don’t think you fully appreciate it until you get a little bit older and you start doing these things that you’re like, oh, I learned that from Dan Or right, good or bad.

Dan Ward: To be fair, but I. Oh, I learned that from Dan and, uh. Um, so then, you know, I’ve always, after experiencing that and after fully understanding that a couple of years into Detroit labs, I’ve wanted to be able to be that for others and in whatever capacity that they feel is necessary. Right. And I, I find that when I go to central, I’m seeing you when I go to CMU, sitting down and talking to students, giving them feedback, helping them along the way. It’s really excited. I’m really excited, I should say. When I see the same students over and over and I see their ideas continue to progress, or I’m even more excited when I see them pivot. Um, it is really, really nice when you see an entrepreneur say, hmm, that wasn’t it. I’m going to pivot and, and so that’s really great. And then honestly, I’m kind of an open book at this point. Whoever wants to talk about things, I have opinions. They may not always be right, but I’m happy to share them.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that and it is so important to pay it forward. That might sound corny, but I believe that that sums it up right?

Dan Ward: I agree.

Trisha Stetzel: And then we give and I think that’s so important in this space that we’re all working and living in right now. Dan, this has been fantastic. I really appreciate you joining me today. Would you one more time, just give us your contact information for those who want to reach out. Of course, I’ll have that in the show notes as well. For those of you who are sitting in front of your computer. So, Dan, how can folks connect with you?

Dan Ward: Let’s see if I remember what I said earlier, but hello at Detroit Labs is a great way to get Ahold of Detroit Labs. Uh, Dan at Detroit Labs is my email address. I do the very best to keep up on that. Bear with me. If you end up sending me a note and I don’t get back to you right away. I have a lot of people that like to send me things I’m maybe not as interested in. And then, um, uh, LinkedIn, I’m on LinkedIn. I do pay attention to it. Not as fast of a responder, but I promise I do pay attention to it. Um, but yeah, hello at Detroit Labs is probably the safest one because then you kind of cast a wider net, if you will. Yeah.

Trisha Stetzel: Fantastic. Dan, thank you again for your time today. This has been awesome.

Dan Ward: Thank you. I really appreciate it.

Trisha Stetzel: All right, you guys, that’s all the time we have for today. If you found value in this conversation that Dan and I had, please share it with a fellow entrepreneur, veteran or Houston business leader ready to grow. Be sure to follow, rate, and review the show. It helps us reach more bold business minds just like yours and your business. Your leadership and your legacy are built one intentional step at a time. So stay inspired, stay focused, and keep building the business and the life you deserve.