Keith A. Cothroll is a seasoned tax attorney with over fifteen years of experience, specializing in defending individuals and corporations in IRS audits and collection procedures.
A native of El Paso, Texas, he earned his Political Science degree from the University of Texas at Arlington and his Doctorate of Jurisprudence from South Texas College of Law in 2005.
Mr. Cothroll’s expertise spans individual, corporate, and employment taxes, with extensive litigation experience before the US Tax Court in Houston, Texas. He also handles property tax, multistate, and bankruptcy matters.
An active lecturer, he frequently speaks on tax and business topics at various seminars and organizations. He is currently writing a book titled “Demystifying the IRS.”
Keith resides with his wife Michelle and their fourteen-year-old daughter, Brooklyn.
Connect with Keith on LinkedIn and Facebook.
This transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.
TRANSCRIPT
Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Houston, Texas. It’s time for Houston Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.
Trisha Stetzel: Hello, Houston. Trisha Stetzel here bringing you another episode of Houston Business Radio. Really excited to have a friend here. We were just reflecting on how long we’ve known each other. It’s been years, and we continue to interface with each other in different functions. And so glad to have Keith Cottrell on with me today. He is a tax attorney in the law office or, excuse me, the law firm of Keith A. Cothroll . He’s a native Texan who grew up in El Paso, Texas, attended the University of Texas at Arlington. I know hook em horns, right? For those of you who are out there, no gig arms here. Uh, where? He majored in political science. Mr. Cottrell graduated with a doctorate of jurisprudence from South Texas College of Law in 2005. He’s worked over 15 years as a tax controversy attorney, defending individual corporations in IRS audits and collection procedures throughout the country. And we’re going to talk in more detail. But welcome to the show, Keith. So glad to have you. I’d like to just jump right into the middle of this and really have you talk about who you are, what makes you unique, and why in the world are you a tax attorney?
Keith A. Cothroll : I started off at a law school doing criminal law and family law, and I got tired of putting people on the streets ahead of business, being on the streets and giving kids to parents who needed a to to to relax and take a parenting class and, and and learn how to be a better co-parent. So after doing that for a couple of years, I said, hey, a friend of mine said, I need some help with IRS audits. And I said, I don’t know anything about that. Taxes are confusing to me. She says, you’ll learn. And so I did, and I was blessed to have a really good, um, mentor client, Miller, who really taught me the ropes as to what I needed to do and how things worked in the in the tax field and the controversy field, and and really from there, all of it forward. Um, I like taxes because it’s just money. And yes, it can be frustrating and scary when the IRS comes knocking on your door, but they just want your money and it unless you do something to go to jail, you’re not going to jail. So, uh, what? Let’s let’s talk about it and figure it out and get you going on the right path. Yeah.
Trisha Stetzel: All right. So accidentally fell into this, uh, profession. All right, that’s a good story, I like it. Um, why don’t we talk then a little bit, Keith, about how you market your business is. I think there’s a really cool video out there. You and I were talking about this before we started recording. Um, just rolling back into. In your industry, when it comes to marketing your business, you can’t just cold call people. It’s not allowed. It’s against the law. So in the type of industry that you’re in, how do you market your business to the right clients?
Keith A. Cothroll : Yes. So the way I do it in a few ways, I think what’s really important in my business and other businesses potentially as well, really everyone is. You got to find out who your best referral partners are because that’s where you really that’s where the rubber to, to use the cliche, the rubber meets the road in a lot of ways is if you find out these are the people who are going to have access to the people that you need, that are going to be able, that you’re going to be able to help. So for me, that’s bookkeepers, that’s CPAs. It’s accounting firms, other attorneys. And so when I get to have relationships with them, then they know, hey, I’ve got someone that when my client has a problem, then I can send them over to Keith and he’s going to take care of them. Uh, so that’s a really large part of my marketing tools. I’m involved in various organizations as well. And, you know, one that that we’re part of together. And what I really like about those organizations is they did teach you how to network when you’re doing one to ones with people. So it’s really, I think when I first started thinking about being a business owner, is I talked more about myself than I asking questions about what they did. So that’s really good as any business owner, and this is for anyone that’s listening, is when you’re going out there and you’re meeting these people that you’re trying to connect with, make it about them almost as much, almost more than it is about you. And so that’s really going to help build that rapport so that they feel like this person isn’t talking to me just because they want my business.
Keith A. Cothroll : They they really want to have a relationship here. Um, so that’s part of it. And then, you know, you’re I don’t really do the, the meets and greets networking too much anymore, as I used to. Um, I don’t have time having, uh, two girls and and a teenage daughter who, uh, any free moment I have, I’m over at target and getting whatever she needs, so it’s whatever important, uh, thing that she’ll die if she doesn’t have it right now type of thing. So, um, and then as far as the commercial, uh, that’s my next stage. And this year was, you know, people always ask me, well, what do you do for a living? Well, I fight the IRS, and I even last year wore my my logo to an IRS conference. And he looked at me kind of funny. I said, it’s just marketing. Don’t worry about it. But um, but anyway, you know, I, I tell people I fight the IRS, so start off as saying it. And then it went to having little boxing gloves, dress balls that that had a, you know, the IRS on it to other merchandise to my newest thing, which was a commercial in which I’m knocking out a 300 pound super muscular IRS agent and saying, don’t be afraid of them. It’s I’ll take care of you. So, um, very much in a comical sort of, uh, nod to, uh, personal injury attorneys in their commercials and doing the same thing with, with with tax.
Trisha Stetzel: I love that. I feel like as many years as I’ve known you, I see you as a real thought leader in this marketing space that you’re in. You mentioned that you love to connect with CPAs and bookkeepers and other attorneys. Some might listen to this and think, well, why in the world would an attorney who’s in the tax base want to connect with people who may be doing that work already? Can you describe the difference between the relationships that you build with people doing that specific business and what you focus on key?
Keith A. Cothroll : Sure. So from a CPA perspective, some will want to do what I do, but a lot of them don’t because it’s just a lot of paperwork, a lot of time, and they can spend their time doing things that they want to do. So it’s just a matter of a a bandwidth for them. They’d rather someone else do it. Um, there are certain tax attorneys that I work with as well. And so they’re better at certain things where there might be international tax, which I don’t do, or partnership tax, which I don’t do. And but they don’t want to mess with the stuff that I do. So it works that way. So a lot of where there can be overlap but it still works is because I take a piece of what they don’t want to do from their, uh, from their caseload. And it just it just works out. And I, I give them tax returns or something like that or other things that I can’t do and disclose vice versa.
Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. That’s fantastic. You get to do what you like, they get to do what they like, and the client is happy. Right? That’s really. Absolutely. Uh, I’d like to draw all the listeners attention to your social pages, because another space where I find you to be a thought leader is you started doing videos a long time ago and providing value. It was just what you were talking about, right? It’s less talking about us and what we do and what we have to offer, and more about providing value to the people that we want to serve. And I think you do a fantastic job at that. So anybody who’s listening go out to Keith’s social channels, those are in the show notes. So it’ll be real easy for you to click out there and find those and take a look. And I think his boxing commercial is out there too, so you can take a look at that. Uh, all right. On a serious note, Keith, uh, are there any tax law updates that we should get out to the audience? Speaking of value.
Keith A. Cothroll : So start off with somewhat tax law, but it’s really corporate transparency act. So there is we have until January 1st to next year. If you’re an LLC partnership corporation S Corp, really anything that is not already heavily regulated like a bank or a broker or something like that, there is some there is some courts out there that are kind of going back and forth where, you know, they’re trying to say, well, we’re there’s some cases out there where they’re trying to get rid of the requirement. But um, for right now through FinCEN, you’re going to want to file your beneficial ownership statement if you’re at least 25% beneficial owner of any of those entities that I mentioned. So that’s kind of a general thing. Of course, you have your employee retention credits. Uh, just came out as as before we got started. I got something today in which the IRS is going to send thousands of letters out to you if you did an employee retention credit, and especially if you did it from a promoter and you didn’t do it through a CPA and you didn’t do it through a tax professional, you’re probably going to get a letter for it. And there were some programs in which they were allowed. They’re going to allow you to kind of back out of some of that, but a lot of that since retired. So now you if you get the letter, then you’re going to have to deal with that audit. Uh, there’s been some other things as well that have come up. Uh, there’s been a lot of promoters that have tried to attack people in different ways.
Keith A. Cothroll : They’ve attacked high net worth individuals by doing some charitable contributions and art donations that just aren’t quite what you’re allowed to do through, uh, through trusts and other ways. So if you get a promoter trying to do an art donation, you know you want to be really leery of that. If anybody comes to you trying to do wellness credits or gym memberships and nutritional supplements, that’s not a real thing. Fuel tax credits when you don’t have a semi-truck or a farm is not a real. It works for those people to work for you. Um, something to get all the time, which is if you get a letter from the tax and authority, uh, any taxing authority saying that they’re going to put you in jail, then you could throw that letter away unless it comes from the IRS directly or from the comptroller or whatever state you’re in the Department of Revenue. Otherwise, you can throw them away. And then, uh, the other things that are coming up is a large partnership. Audits is a really big deal. Now, the IRS is really going after those large partnerships. Um, and anyone that’s making over $425,000. So that’s if you’re in that bracket, you can expect to get a lot more, um, flack from the IRS. And I’m even getting a lot more audits. I’m getting a lot more revenue officers calling even on small balances or $50,000 or less. So there’s just a lot going out there. Um, we were we were looking to see what was going to happen once they hired a bunch of people, and now we’re starting to see what’s actually happening, so.
Trisha Stetzel: Okay. Yeah. Uh. Very interesting. So if any of you heard something that sounds interesting, you need somebody like Keith to navigate the waters for you. I’m just saying, if you don’t already have a good CPA or a tax person, then Keith is your guy. Everybody needs one.
Keith A. Cothroll : Absolutely.
Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. Uh. All right. Let’s. This is an interesting one, Keith. Uh, tales from the Tech’s crypt. What can you tell us? Give us a story.
Keith A. Cothroll : All right, so I started using that in all my presentations that I do. Um, just as a little aside, not not really to fill in space, but just to let people know people always want to hear stories. Uh, the most recent one. I’ve got a couple going on right now. Uh, one is against a large tax preparation firm in which, um, we are arguing over whether or not my client has materially participated in the business. And as a matter of six figures of about $160,000. Whether we get that refunded to us, if we’re right, we have to pay it. If, uh, if we’re wrong, uh, another one I’ve got going on right now is, um, a client who, uh, is a out of state, uh, real estate investor and got his property taken into tax sale. And so now we’re we’re going to be able to back out probably that tax sale. But they they basically sued the wrong person, the taxing authorities. And so we’re working on getting all that straightened out. And it’s been you know, it’s already been picked up by, uh, by another buyer. That’s kind of a mess. The one that I really like to talk about. And he tells him the tax script in the last one I’ll talk about is why it’s so important to have me on your side. So I had a local realtor. She got audited at $28,000 a mile because realtors drive a lot, and they. And she was a high volume person, so she was all over the city showing houses, driving around, doing open houses.
Keith A. Cothroll : So we showed them. We showed the auditor, the revenue agent, the entire calendar and about a quarter of the listings. And he denied the whole thing. And I said, well, why are you denying it? We gave you the calendar. We gave you. We have all the listings. We just want to show you another 500 pages. Well, I just don’t think there’s enough here. And I said, well, what about the Cohen rule? It’s like, what’s that? I said, it’s your rule. And so you ought to know what it is. And, uh, he said, basically, in a nutshell, it says that if you present enough information to the IRS and if you don’t have 100% of it, though, they should give you all of it. It’s an oversimplified but that’s really, you know, what the rule is. And so he said, well, let me talk to my supervisor in the next day. I said, okay, you can have it. Well, if I wasn’t there, then that $28,000 would have been a taxable event to that client. So that’s really where I come in, in what I do for a living on the day to day is, you know, if you if you’ve got a collection matter, we we you pay what you can afford to pay. If you’re being examined, you pay what you if you’ve been audited, you’re probably going to pay something, but you’re not going to pay more than you’re supposed to. So that’s really where I add a lot of value to people.
Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, man, we all need you on our side. So many stories and so many things. So as we finish up today, Keith, um, tell me. Well, if somebody’s listening and they have a thing that they have a question about, could they call you like, what is that thing? So we’ve got a letter from the IRS. I get that, I get a letter from the IRS. I need to call Keith. What are the other reasons why I might engage you.
Keith A. Cothroll : With the IRS? And I guess I should mention property taxes as well, because I do that too. But you’re going to call me really, if it’s something that your CPA doesn’t know and it’s something that is a specific tax issue that’s legal, what is it called say about it? And that’s that’s really where I get into the black white letter of the tax law and what you can and can’t do. Um, so that’s where I can help out, whether it’s crypto question or it’s, um, a matter of how do I how do I do something, then, you know, that’s that’s where I can come in. So where your CPA may not know the answer, I may, I probably do, and then I can help you out in that.
Trisha Stetzel: So I love that. And oh, by the way, for the listeners, uh, Keith also likes to meet CPAs and bookkeepers and other attorneys and just saying yes.
Keith A. Cothroll : Thank you.
Trisha Stetzel: Absolutely. Keith, thank you so much for being on the show today. Anything else that you’d like folks to know? And please make sure you tell us the best way to contact you.
Keith A. Cothroll : Yes. Um, that’s and I appreciate, uh, being on this Houston Business Radio podcast with you as well. Tricia, thank you for your time and always glad to share. You know what I, what I do with with others and in your audience. And I think the easiest way to reach out to me is 832402 4440. I can say my email. It’s basically the first initial of my name, my last name at law, which is c o t h law.com.
Trisha Stetzel: Fantastic. Thanks, Keith. I’ll make sure that’s in the show notes as well so folks can find you very quickly. Again, I appreciate you being here. Uh, it’s been a pleasure getting to play on the podcast or on the show today with you. And I know that we’ll interact in some form over the next several months, because we always seem to run into each other after all.
Keith A. Cothroll : Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
Trisha Stetzel: All right. That’s all the time we have for today’s show. Join us next time for another exciting episode of Houston Business Radio. Until then, stay tuned, stay inspired, and keep thriving in the Houston business community.
