Robert Wilson with Culture Shift Team

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Nashville, Tennessee. It’s time for Nashville Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Stone Payton: Welcome to another exciting and informative edition of Nashville Business Radio. Stone Payton here with you this afternoon. This is going to be a good one. Guys, please join me in welcoming to the broadcast with Culture Shift Team. Mr. Robert Wilson. How are you, man?

Robert Wilson: I’m doing well, Stone, and thank you so much for having me and thinking about us and, uh, looking forward to a conversation.

Stone Payton: Well, it is a delight to have you on the broadcast. I got a ton of questions, Robert. I’m sure we won’t get to them all, but I do think a great place to start would be if you could paint a little bit of a picture for me and our listeners, mission, purpose. What is it that you and your team are, are really out there trying to do for folks, man?

Robert Wilson: Yeah. So Culture Shift Team. Um, we’ve kind of got a two pronged approach to how we support organizations, both large and small. Um, the way we like to look at it is we like to talk about our work in terms of demographic shifts. So we help organizations navigate and leverage demographic shifts that are happening, happening in the market. Um, and so that might be, um, if you are trying to reach, uh, customers, uh, consumers, maybe that you have not been able to effectively reach in the past. Um, we can help you do that across a multitude of different demographics. Um, but then we also support organizations internally, um, with, uh, demographic shifts that are happening within our workplaces. So, you know, we have a real emphasis on people and culture, um, and helping organizations build really, really productive workplaces. Given that the reality is that, um, in our workplaces today are a lot of people who have not worked together before. Um, there’s multi-generations working in the workplace as well as, um, you know, different, um, cultures and genders in some cases. And so we help organizations navigate that and produce productive workspaces. Well, I.

Stone Payton: Got to tell you, it sounds like really rewarding work. Good work, if you can get it. I got to know the backstory. How in the world did you land here? How did you find yourself doing this kind of work for these people?

Robert Wilson: You know, it’s actually a really good question. My background, actually, I’m a mechanical engineer, believe it or not, which probably really throws you off from what I just said as far as our introduction. Um, but I was. I’m a mechanical engineer. I’m from Detroit, Michigan, actually. Um, and I spent many years in corporate environments working in engineering. Um, in 2010, I was asked to lead Nissan, North America’s first diversity and inclusion initiative, and help set that up for North and South America. Um, and so that’s really was really my serious entry into the work. Um, so we were doing some fantastic work, uh, in reaching some markets, uh, and going deeper with some communities and building some trust and maybe selling, selling a few cars along the way. Um, that was really important to the, to the company. And I needed some help. And so I identified and found two local consultants, and Gillespie and Marcella Gomez, both of them leaders in the Nashville market. Um, and they ended up doing some work with us, very similar to the work we do as Culture Shift team. Now in reaching hearts and connecting with and building trust with hard to reach audiences. We had so much success doing this work at Nissan that when I departed Nissan. The three of us decided to take our work to the next level. Um, and to form Culture shift team. So they like to joke that the irony there is that, you know, that they recruited one of their clients from the from the client into the company. So I was in some ways, I kind of consider myself employee number one for that reason.

Stone Payton: What a marvelous origin story. So now that you’ve been at it a little bit, uh, for a little while, what are you finding most rewarding about the work? What’s the most fun about it for you these days?

Robert Wilson: You know what we’re about building trust, right? We’re about building trust. Um, both with, again, externally and internally. So externally, building trust is, you know, how do you get these communities that have been that haven’t felt a part, um, that maybe have been, um, not invited or maybe in some cases intentionally excluded, right? How do you build trust between that community and a brand or an organization? Um, because we work with small nonprofits, uh, in much the same way we work with large corporations now. So how do you build that trust and what does that process look like, and how do you create something that’s a sustainable relationship? Um, so that over a period of time people begin to, uh, kind of see themselves with that particular in that particular brand and really develop a connection with that brand. And then internally again, same thing. What are the triggers and what are the levers to building trust internally with your workforce? The workforce now is just so different than it was, um, when I was first starting out, um, in corporate America, for instance. And, you know, when I was starting out, um, Stone, um, you know, as an employee, you just kind of you came in there and whatever was going on on the outside, you just kept that to yourself.

Robert Wilson: And, you know, you kind of suffered in silence and, um, you know, that relationship with your employer, it was really very surface level. Well, now there’s a recognition that people need connection, um, and that both connection with the with the brand connection with their employers, connection with their bosses and coworkers. And there’s an expectation amongst particular millennials and Gen Zs that that’s part of the work experience. And, you know, I think that’s a good thing. I think that, you know, in the old days, we used to have our bowling teams, if you remember, you know, I was on a bowling team or, you know, if you were in the military, you’re part of a veterans organization that you’re really active in, and people were involved in their church. We’ve seen less connection, you know, in this in the last generation. And so there’s an expectation that work provide that connection for people. And the best part is we’re seeing really good statistical evidence that that also leads to more productivity in the workplace and that, you know, organizations are better able to fulfill their missions. When people really feel connected to the work and to the people that they work with.

Stone Payton: So I have an observation and I don’t have a conclusion, and I’m glad I’m getting a chance to have this conversation with you. One part of the observation is I see a great deal more activity and some really positive outcomes from individuals and associations and corporations and small and medium sized businesses, like leaning into this whole idea of diversity, equity and inclusion. And then but parallel to that, and maybe it’s because, you know, I’m a reasonably well-off, middle aged white guy. Maybe people are willing to say this, but I’ll occasionally hear what I would characterize as a little bit of backlash or like, you know, the whole idea gets a little bit under attack. Are you seeing that and what impact, if any, is that having on on your work?

Robert Wilson: It’s a great question. Great question. I’ll start by saying that all of us contribute to creating a diverse workplace. Um, all of us have some part of ourselves, um, that, you know, maybe is not part of the norm or maybe not part of the majority. You might have you might be neurodiverse, right? You might have your own mental health struggles. Um, you might be from a generation that is not highly represented in your workplace. Um, you might have come from a background where you didn’t have a lot, grew up with a lot of wealth, um, and a lot of opportunities. So from a socioeconomic level, you might be different, um, or have had some challenges that other people that you work with haven’t had. And so when we talk about diversity, specifically in the workplace, we really are inclusive of everyone. Um, because all of us have a story and we want to recognize those stories and understand that you collect all those stories, they give you a lot of insight to the customers that you’re trying to reach. Yeah. So I always like to start there with respect to the backlash. Yeah. You know, I think that those of us who do this work maybe haven’t done a good enough job in explaining what the work is, um, and that really we’re trying to create connection within the workplace so that people have what we call psychological safety to be themselves. Um, and as a result of being yourself to share insights that you bring to the table, because as we know, our employees represent the people we’re going to sell to the people that we’re doing business with.

Robert Wilson: Right. And so how do we get employees to feel better about that and to do that? And how do we create these psychologically safe environments that allow us to connect with customers and grow our mission or grow our our market, our market penetration? Um, and so we haven’t done a good enough job in explaining that. And yes, there’s been some backlash, I think, as a result. But, you know, the, the the interesting thing is there are some there have been some maybe some big name brands that have come out and said that they are retreating or they’re stepping back from their work in this space. But overall, when you actually look at the data, what we see is that a lot of companies are going deeper, um, in the work, um, that a lot of companies, um, understand how their work in the inclusion space is driving the business and preparing them for the demographics of tomorrow. Um, and perhaps those companies, some of these companies are not as visible or vocal as maybe they were in 2020 when, for instance, when when the horrible tragedy with George Floyd occurred. Um, but we do see when you look at the data and you kind of peel back a little bit, the reality is that the companies are going deeper, not less. Um, even though there have been some high profile companies that, for whatever reasons, have decided to to step back a little bit.

Stone Payton: So speaking of data, I mean, to me, your work strikes me as something that would be personally fulfilling your your you’re making a dent in the universe. You’re you’re serving your fellow person. You’re involving people. So all that good, you know, fuzzy warm stuff. But there is quite a bit of data, as I understand it, that suggests that a diverse, um, working environment and having people with different perspectives and backgrounds, there’s some real bottom line benefit to that. I mean, it’s it’s good business, isn’t it? Yeah.

Robert Wilson: I, you know, it’s it’s almost to the point now where, you know, that isn’t even contested amongst corporations. Now, um, there’s been studies done by big organizations like McKinsey. Um, has studied this for, I think, well over a decade. And there have been some other really high profile studies that have shown that, you know, organizations that have diversity, that are leveraging their diversity are more profitable, um, organizations that have diverse board of directors are. They see a significant impact to their positive impact to their shareholder price over and over again. We see data points that suggest that that this has a significant impact to business, which is why so many organizations are not backtracking from the work, even though there’s some external pressure, um, to rethink how the work is done and what it means. Um, and that’s okay. It’s okay to say, you know, how are we how are we executing our work in this inclusion space, both internally and externally? That’s that’s a good conversation to have. But I think we’ve reached the point, at least from a business perspective, where questions around, you know, should we be even doing this work? Well, I think we’re past that at this point. Um, and I think it’s just a matter of I think, you know, as we talk more about what this means outside of the, of the office, um, that, you know, making sure that we articulate to everybody else the huge benefit that we see from from doing this work?

Stone Payton: Well, I’m glad to hear you say that. And as I think through it, it just makes all the sense in the world what my daddy would call walking around sense, you know, and you know, if everybody at the table is looking through the exact same lens, you just don’t get the richness of experience and depth and access to markets and all those things that that you do with a truly diverse workforce. I know personally and I have several, Robert, but one of my failings, particularly early in my career in building this organization, the Business RadioX network, I had a tendency to hire in my own image, and not so much along racial or gender lines, that that really never was much of a hill for me, but someone who who saw the world a lot like I did, or kind of had my language patterned or had my sales style. And man, we have been so much more productive since we’ve intentionally tried to get different types of folks to the table.

Robert Wilson: Yeah. You know, it’s interesting because, uh, humans are attracted to people most like ourselves. Yeah. Um, when I, you know, do different education sessions on this topic, one of the things I talk about is that a lot of our challenges around inclusion are head related and that heart related, which simply means that as humans, again, we’re attracted to people most like ourselves. We have these, um, uh, self protection mechanisms, right, that create opportunities for things like bias, which you were just describing. Um, and so the hope is that awareness of these things and some presentation of tools to be able to overcome them, um, will lead us, you know, advance us as organizations, as people, and really create more inclusive leaders, which is, I think, what we want. I can tell you I can tell you two Stone as an engineer, the worst thing you can have is a bunch of engineers who went to the same school, got studied, studied under the same professors. We’re all trying to solve problems the same way. Right. Because you know, when you’re going to come up against a problem that maybe you didn’t see. And if everybody’s looking at the same way, you can cause yourself a lot of trouble. I mean, that can become very dangerous as an engineer. So I get what you’re saying, and I’ve lived it and know that, you know, this is really a basic tenet of problem solving.

Stone Payton: So let’s dive into the work a little bit. I don’t know, maybe even walk through a use case. You don’t have to name any names if you don’t want to, but I’d love to get a picture of what the work looks like. I’m particularly interested in the in the early stages. I guess you’d call it like an engagement cycle, like what happens early on, but walk us through a use case or an example of the interaction you have. You mentioned education, but yeah, talk that through a little bit.

Robert Wilson: You know what I’ll. The example I’ll give you is something that some really great hard work that our organization has been doing now and with a lot of depth since 2020. Um, and so we, uh, have been working with a number of major hospital research organizations around the country. Um, after Covid, a lot of people started to understand that, you know, maybe our research samples, um, within the within the research industry, were not very diverse. So, in other words, when we were doing research and we were doing, um, you know, looking at the, the efficacy of different drugs and different research methods, um, to treat different types of illnesses. Um, the population that we’re pulling from was not representative of US population. In some cases, it was a representative of the population that would tend to get sick or tend to have this particular illness. Um, and so what we’ve been doing, um, for a number of different groups over the last five years is helping to recruit people to participate in different research studies. And we’ve got a method, a methodology of doing that where we build trust between that, organization and the community. We rely on trusted people that have some influence within that community. Um, preparing them and giving them information that they can use to share the information about different clinical trials that we’re participating in. Um, and we do it with an understanding that there are communities out there, um, across racial lines, across socio economic lines, that are really hesitant and don’t have trust with some of these institutions. And so how do you build that relationship so that these folks can participate in some of these trials? Um, and, and do so in a way that allows these research institutions to make better decisions about drugs, about treatments, um, that save lives. And so that’s something that we’re really, really proud of coming out of Covid that we’re a part of. And, um, looking to grow and expand, um, because it’s making a big difference out there in the world with respect to health care.

Stone Payton: So how does the whole sales and marketing thing work for a firm like yours? Like, how do you get the the new businesses? Is it mostly referral, or do you find yourself out there shaking the trees a little bit and having to meet the market?

Robert Wilson: We meet the market. You know, we go out, we, you know, go. We try to get ourselves in rooms, um, where there are people, um, who are decision makers, um, who can, who we can tell our story to and who we can hear more about what they’re challenged with. Um, and so we, we try to kind of kind of marry those two things up. What are some of your challenges that you’re facing, and how could some of our tools and some of our solutions help you solve those issues? Um, we’re very data focused, which I will I’m happy to say. I’m very proud to say even though I’m an engineer and my, my, our other two founders are not. They really, really drive the data emphasis, believe it or not, like sometimes for me, I’m like, oh, you know, maybe this one. I think I can kind of use my a little bit of intuition for like nope, nope nope nope. We got to get to collect the data. Um, and so we like to do that so that we are making informed decisions, um, and helping that client make informed decisions about policy, um, about strategy. Uh, and so we go out and we, we ask those questions of stakeholders so that, um, we’re able to make really good decisions, come up with really good solutions.

Stone Payton: You mentioned a little earlier in the conversation that you are serving people nationally. I don’t know, maybe even internationally. And you’re there in Nashville. Have you have you gotten, um, really close to the Nashville community? What can you tell us about about Nashville?

Robert Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. Nashville is just a fascinating place with a great story. Um, of course, people know Nashville from, um, music and country music in particular. Um, but also Nashville is also one of the health care capitals, um, within the United States. I did not realize that. Yeah, yeah. So that’s a big industry here as well. And there’s a lot of it has become a lot of automotive and manufacturing, which actually brought me to Nashville some years ago. Um, but it’s a growing city. It’s a diverse city. Um, and it’s a city I’m proud to say is is really putting in the work to figure out how you take people in Nashville’s case, because I think the last I checked, it’s like 105 new people moved to Nashville per day. So some astronomical number like that. And so you’re taking people who come from very different places, um, both immigrants from outside of the United States, but also people who are making a decision to settle in Nashville, um, who come from different cities and communities across the country. And so how do you take all those people and try to create a sense of belonging, um, for all these folks. And so as a result of that, it’s work that I’m happy to say Nashville is doing the work and putting in the work to to try to get better at as it relates to diversity and inclusion.

Robert Wilson: I serve as executive director and one of the founders of an organization called the Tennessee Diversity Consortium. Um, and we are a consortium of people who are in leadership positions, whether they be within the corporate space, the higher ed space K through 12 nonprofit. But people who are in leadership positions doing work, some in some capacity, around diversity, equity and inclusion. Um, and the idea there is that bring these folks together because you probably never thought about this stone, but there’s no such thing as a degree in diversity, equity, inclusion. There still isn’t. One day I hope there will be, but right now there’s not. And so we bring these folks together to help us skill up and help us be better stewards of the work. Um, for the organizations and communities that we serve. And so I’m really proud of that work, because it’s really work that hopefully is impacting that sense of belonging, that these folks coming into Nashville for the first time and trying to blend yet maintain Nashville’s culture, um, doing the work. This helps us do the work to to be able to pull that off more effectively.

Stone Payton: So I don’t know when or where you would find the time. It sounds to me like you got a lot of irons in the fire and a lot going on, but I’m going to ask anyway interests, hobbies, pursuits, passions outside the scope of your of your work. But my listeners know that I like to hunt, fish and travel. Anything you nerd out about when you’re not doing the work.

Robert Wilson: Hey look, this is my time of the year because people that know me know I’m a huge college football fan. Um, and so I’m a Michigan alumni and a Michigan fan. We’re having a tough year, but you can’t win them all, I guess. Um, but I am a bit of a college football historian, so I’m going to guess I probably know more about your team, uh, than you know about your team. Uh, you know, so it really, you know, it’s exciting time of the year. It’s really fun, um, to engage around engage around that.

Stone Payton: So what’s next for Culture Shift Team? Are you going to continue to try to scale serve more, bigger? What are you seeing on the horizon? I don’t know, maybe even as much as 3 to 5 years out.

Robert Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we want to um, the reality is that the US demographics are continuing to evolve, um, in particular, over the next 15 years, we’ll see even faster demographic change across generation and ethnicity, buying power, um, many different dimensions of identity. We’ll see even faster change in what we’ve seen over the last 15 years. Um, and so in that respect, we have a lot of tailwinds for our work. Uh, we’ve got some headwinds that which you’ve called out, some of the lack of understanding of what the work is, um, and some folks, you know, even in some cases trying to prevent the work from happening. Um, and so we’re leaning in. Um, we want to reach more companies, More organizations. Again, we work with nonprofits for profits. Um, and so we want to grow and continue to do the work. Um, because what we see is that there’s a big impact to the experiences that people have at work and the experiences and the relationships that people build with brands. And so, you know, we want to continue to expand. We do work, as you describe, all over the United States. Um, and so we have our tentacles in many markets outside of Nashville, even though we were started here. Um, and we want to continue to make that kind of difference. It’s great to be able to to start and grow a business where you see the impact it’s having to society. Um, I think that’s something that all of us aspire to. And within Cultureshift team, we’ve got a plan and we’ve got a business model that allows us to do that.

Stone Payton: Well, congratulations on the momentum, man. I think it’s absolutely terrific. Before we wrap, I’d love to leave our listeners with a couple of actionable items. I call them Pro Tips and look, guys. The number one pro tip if you really want to start getting your arms around Dei diversity, equity and inclusion, reach out and have a conversation with Robert or somebody on the on his team. But let’s leave them with something to chew on, something to read or do or don’t. I don’t know. Just something to give them to, something for them to start noodling on.

Robert Wilson: You know, here’s one tip. You know, when it comes to inclusive leadership, because I know a lot of our listeners are business leaders and business people. Um, the tip I’ll leave you is what I always tell folks that all of us have the same capacity to commit a harm as we do to be the recipient of a harm. And so that little piece of humility, if you remember that piece of humility, it really allows you, um, to be humble, um, in this process of becoming an inclusive leader. Um, and so remember that I, I’m just as capable of committing a harm as I am of being a recipient of one. And if you want to reach out to us, you can do so by going to Cultureshift team.com. Um, and you can look at our offerings and our tools and services there. Um, we offer microlearning, uh, individual microlearning courses for people who just want to go out and, um, learn a little bit more about this topic on their own. Um, and obviously, we have the ability to scale that to organizations that are, that are large organizations as well. Um, and if you want to, um, see more and hear more about what I’m doing in this space, um, and also get access to other resources that I make available through Cultureshift team. You can follow me on LinkedIn. Um, it’s just Robert Lawrence Wilson is how you find me, um, on LinkedIn. Um, and I’m happy to engage with people and continue to have these conversations because this is where we’re going in the future. Um, and so it can be it can be a fun journey. And I want to I want to be part of helping it be helping to it become that.

Stone Payton: Well, Robert, it has been an absolute delight having you on the show this afternoon, man. Thank you for your insight, your perspective, your enthusiasm. You and your team are doing such important work and we sure appreciate you, man.

Robert Wilson: Awesome. Thanks for having us and look forward to the work that you all are doing as well.

Stone Payton: My pleasure. Alright, until next time. This is Stone Payton for our guest today, Robert Wilson with Culture Shift Team and everyone here at the Business RadioX family saying we’ll see you again on Nashville Business Radio.