Developing Resilience – How to Bounce Back from Challenges and Changes, An Interview with Dr. Farideh Bagne, Magnolia By The Lakes (Inspiring Women, Episode 34)
After successfully selling the largest privately-owned conglomerate of cancer centers in the United States, Dr. Farideh Bagne wasn’t done. In this interview with host Betty Collins, Dr. Bagne discussed a unique senior living concept she has developed: a winterless senior resort complex for states with harsh winter. Dr. Bagne discussed the challenges she has faced and overcome in her entrepreneurial journey, balancing life as a business owner and mother, and much more. Inspiring Women is presented by Brady Ware & Company.
Betty’s Show Notes
I speak with Farideh R. Bagne, Ph.D.,JD. She’s one of the most brilliant, successful and hardworking people that I’ve ever met. She has an amazing story, with some great insight on resilience. And she’s built this really cool bridge at Magnolia by the Lakes, the gold standard of senior living, a luxury Independent and Assisted Senior Village on the shores of Cass Lake, overlooking Sylvan Lakes in Oakland County Michigan. I think you’re going to want to hear about the story about this for sure.
As Dr. Bagne states…
You know that thing when you look challenge in the eye and you don’t blink and you even have a smile on your face. That’s what we’re going to talk about. So don’t miss out. My advice to you again is, number one, belief in yourself and do not have a defeatist attitude. Always remember that race, national origin, gender had nothing to do with business, science, medicine or whatever endeavor you are planning to do. It is not what others think of you. It is what you think of yourself. And with that attitude, believe that you should have that axiom of your life that truly everything happens for the best. And at the moment that disaster happens. You don’t know what the best is, but believe that somehow it will be and will become one of the best events of your life unless you follow these three acts and you’ll really become successful throughout your life.
Coming up on July 30th is the 7th annual Brady Ware Women’s Leadership Conference. Each year, 100% of the proceeds go to support women initiatives through non profit organizations within Ohio. This year our supporting non profits are the Better Business Bureau and the Women’s Small Business Accelerator.
Many months ago when we began planning for this year’s conference, we felt it best to err on the side of safety, so this year’s conference will be held virtually. While this may not be the most ideal situation, it does allow for us to offer participants speakers that are nationally recognized as well as locally recognized women leaders.
We’re excited to be able to present keynote speaker, Peggy Klaus, author of ‘Brag! How to toot your own horn without blowing it’. We’ll start the morning with a lively discussion with a panel of women business owners and leaders.
And to add to the excitement of the day, you’ll be able to network, visit exhibitor tables and win wonderful prizes throughout the day!
I would like to personally invite you to join us on July 30th. Just go to Columbus Women’s Leadership and complete a simple form. We’ll do all the rest!
Don’t miss this opportunity to expand your knowledge! Register now!
Hope to see you there!
This is THE podcast that advances women toward economic, social and political achievement. Hosted by Betty Collins, CPA, and Director at Brady Ware and Company. Betty also serves as the Committee Chair for Empowering Women, and Director of the Brady Ware Women Initiative. Each episode is presented by Brady Ware and Company, committed to empowering women to go their distance in the workplace and at home.
For more information, go to the Resources page at Brady Ware and Company.
Remember to follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts. And forward our podcast along to other Inspiring Women in your life.
[00:00:00] Betty Collins
So, today, we’re going to talk about developing resilience. And developing resilience, how do you bounce back from challenges and change? And my guest today is very familiar with this topic. She had to live it to have the success that she has. So, developing resilience is key to having success in your life at all levels in circumstances. For me, personally, resilience is the ability to recover from those difficulties and those everyday life challenges.
[00:00:32] Betty Collins
Certainly, 2020 was that, and 2021 is going to be probably that. But prior to 2020 and after, it will still be needed, because life isn’t a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. So, resilience, to me, when I try to define it, is looking at challenges in the eye and not blinking. But some days, it takes everything you have to not blink. It depends on how bad you want to overcome the challenge. And are you willing to look at that challenge in the eye and not blink?
[00:01:02] Betty Collins
It’s very hard to do, right? But this is my life every day as a leader, whether I’m doing accounting or podcasting or whatever it is. But what makes you a leader is that people will follow. So, they need leaders in people in business. You need to be resilient and completely confident in it. And by the way, when you can blink with a smile on your face, it’s even better. So, let me encourage you to be resilient for something that’s worth it, that’s impactful and it makes a difference.
[00:01:32] Betty Collins
Too many times, we’re resilient, giving it all for nothing. Instead, be resilient for a world who need you, like your family, your business, partners, your employees or causes. So, today, this is a first. The podcast is going to be sponsored by ICS Tax, and I’m honored- I’ll start that over. And I’m very honored to introduce to you, Michelle Mackerdichian of ICS Tax. We partner together on all kinds of issues. There’s a lot of aspects to tax.
[00:02:07] Betty Collins
And so, they do some things that are very unique and very good, and they do a fantastic job. And it’s been great to work with the firm, especially her. From the beginning of knowing her, it was really more than business. We just have similar personalities and we’re interested- just connected in the same things. And it was not long after knowing Michelle, that she talked about our guests with such awe. So, Michelle, tell us a little bit about ICS Tax and then introduce our special guest, who will tell her story.
[00:02:42] Michelle Mackerdichian
Thank you so much, Betty, for the beautiful introduction. You are an inspiration for all women, and it has been an absolute pleasure working with you and your team ay Brady Ware. ICS Tax is a specialty tax consulting firm that provides innovative tax planning strategies. We collaborate with tax payers and their tax professionals to identify credits and incentives that reduce tax liabilities and increase profitability. Our services include cost aggregation studies, mixed asset reviews, R&D tax credit and green building tax incentives.
[00:03:16] Michelle Mackerdichian
We serve business owners in numerous industries, including construction and real estate, manufacturing, hotels and lodging, retail and numerous others. Our team brings decades of combined industry experience, assuring great depth of knowledge and expertise. We have offices across the nation with two in Ohio. I work in our Columbus office and our president, Alex Bagne, office is in Cleveland. Today, Betty Collins will be interviewing our president’s mother, Dr. Bagne, who is someone all of us here at ICS have the greatest admiration and respect for. Dr. Farideh R. Bagne is one of the most brilliant, successful and hardworking people I know.
[00:04:00] Michelle Mackerdichian
She founded and operated the largest, privately-owned conglomerate of cancer centers in the United States, which included seven radiation oncology centers in Oakland, McCombe, and throughout counties in Michigan. Ditched into radiation oncology, Dr. Bagne also owned and operated gynecological, oncology surgery, internal medicine and medical oncology clinics. She is indeed a true visionary. After selling all of the medical centers to Century 21st Oncology, a publicly-traded company, Dr. Bagne created a unique concept in senior living, a winterless senior resort complex for states with harsh winter.
[00:04:43] Michelle Mackerdichian
Dr. Bagne’s background is just as impressive. She received her bachelor’s degree with high honors in physics and mathematics at Michigan State University and her Master’s and Doctorate degrees in nuclear physics from the University of Pennsylvania. Dr. Bagne was the first and only female recipient of the National Institute of Health Scholarship in radiological [INAUDIBLE] University. She also has a law degree with magna cum laude from Wayne State University, and is a licensed attorney in the state of Michigan.
[00:05:16] Michelle Mackerdichian
She has been a professor at Duke Medical Center, Dartmouth Medical School, Medical College of Ohio and Wayne State Medical School. Not only is Dr. Bagne highly accomplished and successful, she has a wonderful and close-knit family; two sons, two daughters-in-law and seven grandchildren, whom she is extremely proud of.
[00:05:34] Betty Collins
Thank you, Michelle, and most certainly, thank you and welcome, Dr. Bagne. It’s such a pleasure to have you in here. Going to hear your story, get some perspective and certainly, tie developing resilience. How does it fit into all this? I’m pretty sure that resilience is in your DNA, so let’s get started. So first again, welcome. Could you tell our audience a little background about you and your education, your degrees, family, a simple overview of your career?
[00:06:06] Farideh Bagne
First of all, Betty and Michelle, thank you for inviting me to participate in your wonderful podcast. And I’m truly honored to be on this program. I will be happy to respond to any questions you have and also, go over my past career, present career, as well as my educational background. I received in my bachelor’s degree in two years from Michigan State University and followed that by a Master’s degree and Ph.D. through a scholarship. And after that, it is rather a funny story.
[00:06:53] Farideh Bagne
I was at the University of Pennsylvania Physics Department. It’s a very large physics department, and I was the only female and my first name is not really masculine or feminine. Farideh could be either one because it’s a sort of unfamiliar name. And when I applied to NIH- actually, the chairman of the department applied for me. They didn’t know I was a female, so they accepted me as the first recipient and they were very surprised when they found out that I was a female.
[00:07:33] Farideh Bagne
And so, I got my Ph.D. and I received my scholarship and did my residency at Thomas Jefferson University. And then I started my career at Dartmouth Medical School and I became the director there. And after that, I went to Duke University and did the same. Now, you may wonder why I received also, a law degree and why I’m a licensed attorney. Well, what happened was that after I was about 32, 33 years old and I was a full professor at the Medical College of Ohio, and I felt I couldn’t go any further.
[00:08:27] Farideh Bagne
So, what should I be doing? And at that time, I was the acting director of the therapeutic radiology department at the medical college, and a priest came home, we had treated for cancer, and he asked to meet with me. And I met with him and he said, “I’m a poor priest. I don’t have that much money. You’ve done an excellent job. Because of my birthday, my family and my parishioners have given me $300. And I would like to give this to you, to the department, to medical college and the hospital, and I would like to have- for you to buy a large crystal ball and then routinely fill it up with candies.”
[00:09:24] Farideh Bagne
Now, at the time, at the hospital, there would not be any coffee, any candy, cookies, anything, for cancer patients or for the loved ones that would bring them. And so, he thought that that would be a good idea. So, I took his check, went to meet with the president of the hospital and explained to him. And he looked at me and said, “What? We’re not going to spend money on candies and cookies for people.” But he did take the check.
[00:10:02] Farideh Bagne
So, at that time, I decided that really working in the academics is not what I want to do. And at that point, I decided to go to law school. And so, during daytime I worked at my routine job and at night, I would go to law school at Wayne State University, and that’s how I got my law degree. And also then, I passed the bar exam, and I have been a licensed attorney ever since.
[00:10:42] Betty Collins
Wow, what a background. My goodness. And I’m glad that you could have some insight to say, “I’m not going to do this because you can’t even buy candy and cookies for people- someone asking and sacrificing and giving us money for that.” I’m glad you saw bigger than that but … What an impressive background and education. I’m a little overwhelmed. In reading about you, you’ve been a business owner and built a very successful businesses. In fact, more than one. But you also have a wonderful family as I’ve met your son. How did you manage family and careers, without sacrificing either?
[00:11:25] Farideh Bagne
Well, this is very interesting because when I started going to law school, both my sons were teenagers. And first of all, I asked their permission to go to law school and they both said, “That’s okay.” And every time I went to law school, I learned something. Obviously, being in physics and mathematics and sciences, I had no idea about the law. And so, everything I learned was interesting to me. So, when I would come home, I would sit down and tell them about what I’d learned and discussed it with my sons.
[00:12:14] Farideh Bagne
And the interesting part is that both of them have gone and have gotten their law degrees, and they both are licensed attorneys. But it’s not so much the time you spend with your children, it is the quality that you spend with them and the quality of time you give them and the respect that they give to your kids. And whatever I always did, I asked permission from my kids to make sure that it was okay with them.
[00:12:55] Farideh Bagne
And that respect and that feeling of importance made them part of the whole success of me, and just as much as I am proud of their success, they are proud of my success. And that is what I would like to instill in the young mothers and young fathers, for that matter, that respect your kids and don’t treat them as little pets. Treat them as little adults and always get permission with them, discuss what you’re doing and listen to what they have to say.
[00:13:41] Betty Collins
That is phenomenal advice. And that’s a great way, I guess, of how you did balance all of that going on. And the fact that they both became attorneys, that’s pretty cool show that you had a lot of influence and a great relationship over the years, as you guys shared in all of that. So, that’s phenomenal. You started cancer centers. What motivated you to do that? And how did resilience play a role in that?
[00:14:12] Farideh Bagne
Well, the resilience is very important in this case because I live in, and I still do, in Michigan and I was the director at Medical College of Ohio, which is in Toledo, Ohio. So, every day, I had to travel back and forth and then at night, I would be going to law school. And the resilience was that every time I would become tired or discouraged or felt like there was too much pressure on me, I always looked forward.
[00:14:57] Farideh Bagne
In other words, I always look at any obstacle in life as a temporary obstacle that you jump over it. You go through it and you don’t let it block your progress towards the future. And I had a lot of those, first of all, having two teenagers at home. And we always had homemade food, so I had to cook during the weekend and make sure that we always had fresh fruit and fresh food and never buy frozen dinners. At the same time, making sure that I am there at 7:30 in the morning at my work, because the president of the hospital had a rule that you had to live in Ohio in order to practice and to actually work at the medical college.
[00:16:06] Farideh Bagne
And I didn’t want to move to Toledo, so I explained to him what I was doing and he said, “If you’re late one time, then you have to move to Toledo.” So, that was our bet. And regardless of how bad the weather was or what was going on, I was the first person that would be in the conference room. Every morning, we had a patient review conference. I was there before anybody else, just to make sure that I could live in Michigan and I could have my sons go to the schools they had been going all along.
[00:16:51] Betty Collins
Well, that takes a lot of resilience for certain, as I’m just hearing you. You played a role in these cancer centers. You played a role in building businesses, raising kids and on your terms of, “I’m going to live in Michigan.” But you were there and on time, so they never had a reason to to back you in a corner, I guess. That’s awesome. So, you had your cancer centers and you sold them. And then what- but then you started a very unique senior community after you sold your practices. Again, how did resilience play a role in your starting something all over again when really, you probably could be spending a lot of time on a beach, you know?
[00:17:34] Farideh Bagne
Yes. Well, what happened was that when I sold my cancer centers and all my practice in 2007, it was end of 2007, they had a non- compete agreement with me that I could not practice, I could not own, I could not operate, I could not be on the board. I had- I could not have anything to do with any field of medicine. The only thing I could do was to be a consultant for them. And here I was, trying to figure out, what am I going to do with the rest of my life.
[00:18:17] Farideh Bagne
Yes, I had plenty of money, but what am I going to be doing? And at the time, my sons were gone, they had their own life. And I guess all my life, I had worked, I had gone to school, I had 12 to 16 hours a day doing something else. What was I going to do? So, I decided, well, during the time that I had my cancer centers, I came to respect and love seniors a great deal, particularly for their patience, for their experience and for somewhat, their innocence, compared to the younger people that look at others with a lot of suspicion and- it’s a different world.
[00:19:15] Farideh Bagne
And so, I thought, “Well, if I can’t do anything in medicine, nobody prohibits me from having a senior facility. And that’s when, this was again, in 2007, I started looking around and at first, I started in Michigan. And the standard I had set for myself was I would want to create a place that I, myself, would go. Just the same way that when I started the cancer centers, at the time, there were only two types of cancer centers.
[00:20:02] Farideh Bagne
One were the hospitals that had their radiation therapy in the basement of the hospital, next to the morgue, next to the kitchen or they used little cobalt machines in a tiny little clinics. And at the time, I decided that, I don’t want to have either one of these. I want to create something new to bring in the medical school experience, quality assurance and knowledge of the staff, and combine it with the ease of having a clinic which has windows and doors, and you can park right in front. And that’s how I started building freestanding clinics.
[00:20:48] Farideh Bagne
And now, if you go anywhere, you will see that hospitals all have freestanding cancer centers. They no longer have them in the basement. They no longer have these little cobalt machines. They all have very sophisticated linear accelerators and they all are in freestanding, beautiful clinics. And so, I thought the same thing about the- any incentives that I wanted to have somewhere that if I had to go, I would feel good about it. So, I started in Michigan and I didn’t like anything that I saw here.
[00:21:31] Farideh Bagne
And also at the time, I was, as I mentioned, a consultant for 21st Century Oncology and their headquarters in Fort Myers, Florida. And so, I bought a condo in Naples, Florida. It was a beautiful condo on the Gulf of Mexico, and I get to know a lot of these residents that were there and the majority of them were seniors. And when I would talk with them, “Why did you leave Michigan, New York, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania to come here?” Every one of them would say, “Look at the weather. Look at that beautiful water. Look at the sunset.”
[00:22:20] Farideh Bagne
And at the same time, the next day, they would complain about the fact that they miss their loved ones back at home. They miss the Christmas trees. They they miss the snow and the fireplace. So, I started thinking that the only way that you can be extremely successful in building a senior community is number one, not to have the winter weather affecting the seniors. Number two, have water; to be on the body of the water. And number three, have a beautiful sunset. So, I started looking in Michigan where to find all of that.
[00:23:07] Farideh Bagne
Of course, northern Michigan has beautiful lakes, but it’s very, very cold, and not many people would move up north to go to a senior community. So, I live in Bloomfield Hills and I looked at Birmingham’s Bloomfield Hills area. There are no lakes there. As a matter of fact, it was with Alex, my son, that we were driving around and there was this tiny little town, they call it the city of Keego Harbor, with a population of 3000 that was sitting on two lakes.
[00:23:45] Farideh Bagne
Cass Lake, which is the largest and deepest lake in southeast Michigan, with beautiful sunset and Sylvan Lake, which a beautiful, calm lake that has sunrise every morning. Beautiful. And so, I decided, “Well, that’s where I want to be.” But then I looked around, there are all these little fishing cottages and vacation cottages and little stores. How am I going to find enough property to have my senior community?
[00:24:26] Farideh Bagne
At that time, I knew the mayor of Keego Harbor, Mayor Sidney Rubin, who was a visionary himself. And I talked to him and said, “Well, what do I do?” He said, “Well, just sit tight,” and as you say, “Be resilient and to start buying.” So, I built an office, three-story that two story of it was just dirt, floor, and then the third story was my office, overlooking both lakes. And I was just watching what’s going to happen.
[00:25:05] Farideh Bagne
Well, unfortunately, as well as fortunately for Magnolia, the recession hit in 2008 and everybody was selling. So, I would be just looking around and I had a real estate agent that I said, “Any time you see anything in Keego Harbor, let me know,” and we would buy it. My other son, Stephon, was also an attorney, he’s a partner at Clark Hill law firm. He then would go and we’d just pay the asking price and we buy it. So, I got enough land in Keego Harbor.
[00:25:49] Farideh Bagne
However, there is a major road that belongs to the county, it’s called Cass Lake Road that runs between Cass Lake and Sylvan Lake, and the properties I had bought were on both sides of that street, that road. So, I went back to the mayor and say, “Mayor Rubin, what do I do?” He said, “Well, why don’t you put a bridge over it?” And I said, “How am I going to build a bridge over this?”
[00:26:19] Betty Collins
It’s a great idea.
[00:26:21] Farideh Bagne
And we’ll go to the county. So, I went to the county and I said, “I would like to put a covered bridge over Cass Lake Road, between the two giant parcels. Now, they both were giant because I had bought all these little cottages, businesses, etc., and by the way, that took many years. Now, we’re talking, I started in 2007, this is 2013.
[00:26:54] Betty Collins
[00:26:54] Farideh Bagne
And anyway, with my son Stephon as my attorney, we went back and forth and it cost me a million dollars to put a temperature- controlled, beautiful, private bridge between the two parcels and then they started building. And so, Magnolia North, which is the assisted living, was built and completed in 2015- 2014, 2015, and then in end of 2017, we built a five-story building for Magnolia South independent living. So now, we are the only private group that has a major bridge over a major road that is not open to the public.
[00:27:57] Betty Collins
I love it. I love it.
[00:27:59] Farideh Bagne
So, here we are with the most beautiful views in Michigan for our seniors that can enjoy life in the autumn of their lives.
[00:28:12] Betty Collins
Well, I just can’t help but hear resilience through this whole story; from how you raised your kids, how you got your education, how you changed how cancer centers are are put together, built and seen, to now- I love Naples Beach, Florida, I will tell you. But to be at a senior place like that in Michigan, and I will have to come and see it because it just sounds amazing.
[00:28:41] Farideh Bagne
[00:28:41] Betty Collins
I definitely want to come there. So, you have shown and defied- defined resilience your entire career, and I love that. Plus, just the impact that people are having. I want to cross that bridge. I definitely want to do that, so. But looking back and it’s our last question, looking back, I can see where the resilience with the mayor, he was definitely helpful, and you had to weigh time. It wasn’t instant and it was probably a lot of- more money than you thought. But what advice would you give my audience on developing resilience?
[00:29:19] Farideh Bagne
My advice to your audience is number one, believe in yourself and do not have defeatist attitude. Always remember that race, national origin, gender have nothing to do with business, science, medicine or whatever endeavor you are planning to do. It is not what others think of you. It is what you think of yourself. And with that attitude, believe that, and you should have that axiom of your life, that truly, everything happens for the best.
[00:30:06] Farideh Bagne
And at the moment that disaster happens, you don’t know what the best is, but believe that somehow, it will be and will become one of the best events of your life. And if you follow these three axioms, you’ll really become successful throughout your life. That is my advice to particularly, the young people.
[00:30:35] Betty Collins
Great advice. And I’m a young 57, so I’ll still take that advice, so. But again, resilience is looking those challenges in the eyes and not blinking. We’ve obviously heard that from an amazing lady today. And sometimes, you may not have that in you to do it, but you just, how bad you want to overcome and challenge and how are you- how much are you willing to look that challenge in the eye and not blink and make it happen? Because it’s definitely was worth it for this wonderful woman example.
[00:31:11] Betty Collins
Especially for those people who got to enjoy the senior center that- or the senior retirement community that they’re in now, as well as those cancer centers, and then raising two fine young men who I know one of them who is impacting their world as well. So, I thank you for spending time with us today. You’ve given us a lot to think about. Great story; I always loved the story. And I would have never had this opportunity to meet with you if it was not for Michelle and of course, ICS Tax. So, I want her to close out the podcast with just something about ICS and then I’ll close with my saying. So, go ahead, Michelle.
[00:31:50] Michelle Mackerdichian
Thank you so much, Betty. ICS Tax loves being part of the Women’s Inspiring podcast today, as well as partnering with Brady Ware.
[00:31:59] Betty Collins
Well, we thank you guys for just being a great partner with us as well. So, I’m Betty Collins and so glad that you joined us today. Inspiring Women, it’s what I do and I will leave you with this; being strong speaks of strength, but being courageous speaks to having a will to do more and overcome.
Betty Collins, CPA, Brady Ware & Company and Host of the Inspiring Women Podcast
Betty Collins is the Office Lead for Brady Ware’s Columbus office and a Shareholder in the firm. Betty joined Brady Ware & Company in 2012 through a merger with Nipps, Brown, Collins & Associates. She started her career in public accounting in 1988. Betty is co-leader of the Long Term Care service team, which helps providers of services to Individuals with Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities and nursing centers establish effective operational models that also maximize available funding. She consults with other small businesses, helping them prosper with advice on general operations management, cash flow optimization, and tax minimization strategies.
In addition, Betty serves on the Board of Directors for Brady Ware and Company. She leads Brady Ware’s Women’s Initiative, a program designed to empower female employees, allowing them to tap into unique resources and unleash their full potential. Betty helps her colleagues create a work/life balance while inspiring them to set and reach personal and professional goals. The Women’s Initiative promotes women-to-women business relationships for clients and holds an annual conference that supports women business owners, women leaders, and other women who want to succeed. Betty actively participates in women-oriented conferences through speaking engagements and board activity.
Betty is a member of the National Association of Women Business Owners (NAWBO) and she is the President-elect for the Columbus Chapter. Brady Ware also partners with the Women’s Small Business Accelerator (WSBA), an organization designed to help female business owners develop and implement a strong business strategy through education and mentorship, and Betty participates in their mentor match program. She is passionate about WSBA because she believes in their acceleration program and matching women with the right advisors to help them achieve their business ownership goals. Betty supports the WSBA and NAWBO because these organizations deliver resources that help other women-owned and managed businesses thrive.
Betty is a graduate of Mount Vernon Nazarene College, a member of the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, and a member of the Ohio Society of Certified Public Accountants. Betty is also the Board Chairwoman for the Gahanna Area Chamber of Commerce, and she serves on the Board of the Community Improvement Corporation of Gahanna as Treasurer.
Inspiring Women Podcast Series
This is THE podcast that advances women toward economic, social and political achievement. The show is hosted by Betty Collins, CPA; Betty is a Director at Brady Ware & Company. Betty also serves as the Committee Chair for Empowering Women, and Director of the Brady Ware Women Initiative. Each episode is presented by Brady Ware & Company, committed to empowering women to go their distance in the workplace and at home. For more information, go to the Resources page at Brady Ware & Company.
Remember to follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts. And forward our podcast along to other Inspiring Women in your life.
The complete Inspiring Women show archive can be found here.