Forgiveness, Improv, and the Art of Being Present, with Andrea Flack-Wetherald, Part 2

[00:00:02] Betty Collins
Has anyone ever inspired you to change your life that made you more fulfilled? Well, as a leader in your business and in your community, what are those questions that you ask yourself on a daily basis? It’s these questions that we explore on inspiring women. I am your host, Betty Collins, and I’m a certified public accountant, a business owner and a community leader who partners with others who want to achieve remarkable results for themselves and their organizations. I am here to help inspire you to a positive step forward for a better life. So we’re back with Andrea Flack Wetherald, who wrote The Funny Thing About Forgiveness. And in our first podcast, we talked about forgiveness. It’s a soft skill. We talked a little bit about our book and how it’s doing. We talked about improv and how that all plays a role in in the success of playing out the five cause. And we covered the first two cause, which is choosing curiosity instead of judgment. And we talked about honoring the scene partners, the people in your lives. And now today we’re going to stay in the present moment. We’re going to listen beyond your comfort zone and we’re going to give. We’re going to receive everything as a gift and kind of wrap it up with Andrea. So I hope you’re ready because it’s good stuff. Well, now we go into stay focused in the present moment. Okay. So are we getting New Age or Zen here? Maybe present? We’re humming along. No, but I like I like the way you talk about the present because you talk about the past. So resentment is probably in the past, right? If it’s there, anxiety is in the future and curiosity is right here. It’s motivated, you know, to explore the current and present present moment versus worrying over here or going back over here. You’re right here. It’s a soft skill for conflict and confrontation for sure. So let’s dive into that space for a little bit. I’m going to let you take it because I could just talk forever. And you’re the guest. So go. Yeah, it’s you. Well.

[00:02:17] Andrea Flack Wetherald
I think there’s a lot of ways that people practice that skill of being in the present moment. And when I teach mindful improv thinking, mindfulness practice has been deeply meaningful to me. I learned about it when I was a social worker. My first job out of college was working on a behavior, a behavioral research study. It was about addiction. And so essentially we were looking at when people are trying to make a change in their life, in this case, it was smoking cessation. But when people are trying to make a change in their life, how can we come alongside their efforts to change in a way that’s not condescending or patronizing but is actually helpful? How can we best support behavior modification initiatives? And so that was the what we were looking at at the study. And we learned I had the incredible privilege of learning so many things that I could just like really, if we wanted to take a nosedive into the Transtheoretical model right now and really look at motivational interviewing, I’d go all the way there. I think, though, to your question of like mindfulness or just being in the present moment, one of the things that we learned is how incredibly efficacious it is to help people practice being in the present moment. Because what causes relapse so often is shame is shame. And when people are having to reckon with like behavior modification requires a reckoning with the past, a reckoning with why we didn’t do it well in the past, it usually requires apologies and the degree of how painful those apologies are or those conversations are, of course is contingent upon.

[00:04:01] Andrea Flack Wetherald
There’s thousands of situations that your listeners could be thinking of, you know, and not all of them are as emotionally charged as each other. But the reality is that behavior modification requires a reckoning. And so if that reckoning causes us to feel shame, we might run into this wall of never mind, I can’t do it. And so if we want to lengthen the amount of time that people spend in the maintenance of a good behavior that does serve them, whether that’s choosing curiosity, whether that’s being more assertive, to say how you feel, whether that’s being brave to like, say, the real feedback or whether it’s quitting smoking, whatever it is, whatever that behavior change is, you’re going to be able to do it better if you’re not stuck in shame. So learning to just get present in this moment, learning to accept the past for what it was, learning to look to the future as a product of whatever you’re doing, right? Now and not of this. What’s the word that I would even say not as this like. Written in stone. Certain doom. You know, whatever. Not when we are able to look at the future as a product of what we’re doing right now and not as this certain thing that we have no control over, you know? Right. Um, that’s really powerful. That gives us a lot of agency and a lot of motivation to stick with whatever we’re trying to accomplish.

[00:05:36] Betty Collins
Well, here, here’s how I have applied this, because I’m a CPA, so I have to apply these things, right? But it’s not about someone’s necessarily smoking addiction. But in in public accounting, we have 12 weeks of why do we do this? That’s how you kind of live in your 12 weeks. You’re like, Why? You know, February hits and you’re not out of this till April 15th. And it’s just a lot in a small amount of time, right? So you have to do it really, really well. So instead of let’s go back and think of how we did last year, Let’s go back to the fall. Let’s figure out what we’re going to do next year. I have what I call we’re going to decompress today. We’re going to decompress on on February 20th, on February 1st, because we just got through the first month and we just it’s all fresh. It’s all right here. It’s right here. And we’re going to take this and we’re not going to go back and go, well, they didn’t do this last year and we didn’t do that. And I’m never doing this again and I’m going to quit. And no, this is what we really did. Well, in the moment right now, this is and we’re going to document it and we’re going to write it down so that we will learn from it. And so I took the, you know, to take this and apply it to the present moment in my business. What do I do with that? I take as life is happening in public accounting, it doesn’t matter what you do in marketing, whatever it is this is right now. And we don’t take enough time to stop and go. This is right now. How are we doing? This is right now. And so that the future. I’m not going to sit and be worried about next January when we have to print out thousands of W-2s. I’m not going to worry about that because we’ve conquered it and we’re talking about it, why it’s happening. And I don’t know if that’s how you see applying that principle.

[00:07:39] Andrea Flack Wetherald
There’s a lot of ways to apply it, but.

[00:07:41] Betty Collins
That’s one of the ways I have because it’s like, wow, you know, I can go with it. And in my home life it’s a lot easier some ways to do this application.

[00:07:52] Andrea Flack Wetherald
But one thing that I think is good to mention here is that whenever we think about like what makes it hard to stay in the present moment, like also applied to work is the fact that there are people who are impacted by current events differently than each other. You know, like my husband employs 5 or 6 Ukrainian people. And so when this war started almost exactly a year ago, I guess I don’t remember the official date, but right about a year ago, there was not an ability to be like, let’s just focus on right now, right? This code, this is the code we need. It’s like they’re fleeing with their families and they don’t know if they’ll ever see their homes again. And so now it’s been a year. And like, all of that isn’t like ancient history to them. Like those those initial days, it seems like there’s more stability. And I’m not an expert, but it seems like there’s a little bit more stability for at least these people than there was a year ago.
But that doesn’t mean that, like the incredible trauma of just like waking up and being like, I need to flee with my family right now or we might die like that, I would be it would be impossible for anyone to convince me that they don’t hear a car backfire and like, yeah, panic, you know? And so part of it is I teach a trauma informed approach to leaders as often as I can and just as a way of reminding them that we are all whole people.

[00:09:26] Andrea Flack Wetherald
The people that show up to your office every day are not just accountants, right? They are not they’re not just brilliant mathematicians or scientists or social workers or whatever. Like they’re whole entire people and things have happened to them. And so if they’re in a meeting and it seems like they’re not present, it might not be the case that they just don’t respect you and that you need to have a conversation with them about whatever, you know, Like it might not be the case that it means to you what you think it means. Taking a trauma informed approach says like, why might they not be in the present moment with me? And even if it’s not your job to be the one unpacking, I almost said on hashing, those are two different words, unpacking certain things with them. There is this spirit of compassion. That’s like asking the brave question or just saying a thing that’s like, Hey, I know that this has been a tough year. I just want you to know that we’re here for you or whatever. And so I think that that application is something that’s really important to me to be said, that like, there’s reasons why people get pulled out of the present moment that has to do with their story and not trying to push the forgiveness thing forever.

[00:10:35] Andrea Flack Wetherald
But this is the reason why I tell people and you might get to this later in the book, I don’t know if I honestly don’t remember in the first three chapters where this falls in the book, but I talk about the idea of alignment and how in any particular moment someone says something that hits you the wrong way or whatever, and you’re like ready to fight or ready to quit or something like that. That in that moment we can find alignment for ourselves by kind of quickly being like, Oh, all right, I, I trust me, it is safe to trust imperfect people. I trust the process. This will play out. You can kind of find that temporary. Yeah. Calm and it’s really important to put a pin in it for later and be like, Why did that bother me? That way? I’ll probably find something helpful for myself if I make a point to this weekend, next weekend. I’m very serious about this. I put it on my calendar and I’ll be like, I’ll create an environment where I do have the time to go back to a painful fight I had with my dad when I was 16 or something. Maybe I don’t have time in my workplace bathroom to do it right now, but it is important to address whatever pulls us out of the now. It’s important to make time to address that in an environment that is appropriate. Yeah.

[00:11:49] Betty Collins
You know, there is all kinds of ways you can apply. I mean, that’s that’s an amazing I didn’t even think of that kind of application. Of course I’m thinking of we dealt with our tax returns and our processes today, why it’s happening. But like another scenario is that I used was with one of our employees who is calling me 730 in the morning. She never does that. And she I thought, I better pick that up. So I pick up and she had been in a car accident and probably totaled her car and she was going on about, I’m not going to get this, you know, going on about not getting this done. And she and oh, my goodness. And she’s, you know, in she’s in that she’s in the moment. And I just said we’re all in for you. So we all know I will handle what we need to handle in this moment. And you need to just deal with your moment right now why it’s here, and then call me in a week. And I really threw her off because she was like, call me in a week, okay? And I said, You got a lot to do in the next week. I already know that you’re still here, right in the present deal in it.

[00:13:05] Betty Collins
So I’ve tried. And then she was able to, you know, in about really 3 or 4 days she said, okay, I think this is what I’m going to do now. Good. We’re all in. So let’s just keep that. And this is the moment right now. This is what you’re dealing with right now. So what do we need to do? And so I’ve really used that as a way to focus in and there’s other ways to do it. But I’m trying to apply this to to just in business and how I’m dealing with interacting with people every day. And it’s just paying off because once it was all over and she had got the car replaced and she had the surgery and she’s got the cast off and she was like a new person, you know, in so many ways, too. And so it was and I think it’s because we dealt with the moment as it was happening and not worrying about, Well, you had this accident last week. Way to go. We can’t pay you or hey, it was just we we were able to really go through that.

[00:13:57] Andrea Flack Wetherald
It was good. I’m so glad that you used that example because we have very different work and very different jobs. And so what you’ve just described, like what I heard you say, that I hope your listeners heard you say, too, is that when you’re a leader, you have a really unique opportunity to help people stay in the present moment, to help people care for themselves the way that they need to, by creating a culture and practices that that create less worry for people.

[00:14:25] Betty Collins
Yep, yep. And I had another person who was really funny. She has never had two weeks off in a row at Christmas. She’s been Brady were forever and she goes, I really want that. I go, okay so let’s make it happen. Let’s talk about it. Let’s get it done. And she came back from a break, and by the time she came back, I had gone on my vacation. So we all do this. Life is over in February 1st, so we have to take these vacations. But so I take the vacation and I come back. And we hadn’t seen each other really for almost four weeks. And we usually talk every day and all this kind of thing. So she said, You’re just going to kill me. I said, What’s the problem? She goes, My son got sick and I’m going to go on a four day vacation with him in February. I go. Okay, let’s just deal with it today.
What have we got to do so that we can make that go? And so I’ve tried to go, okay, what is the moment right now that we need to deal with so that she can take four days in February, which is the month of hell, you know, and and March becomes even more like February is hell because it’s a reality.

[00:15:29] Betty Collins
And then March is like on fire. So anyways. But those are those are how I’m trying to apply those things. But she was able to take the four days and she was still amazed in it. So I said, Would you do it again? She goes, No, it wasn’t worth it. I said, okay, we’ll know that next year. Okay, so let’s move on to a skill that is so very needed and that is listen beyond your comfort zone. I am not a listener, okay? I’m thinking right now, the next thing I’m going to say, Andrea, I just do. Right? So but listening skills, I love this in the book and I want you to talk about it. Listening skills versus listening hygiene. I loved it. I love this part. And it’s such a needed skill. And I like the way you say we have all these skills. You know, I can’t remember if it was these are the senses, but we don’t talk about the listening sense or something like that. But help my audience understand listening skills versus listening hygiene. I think there’s absolutely.

[00:16:30] Andrea Flack Wetherald
A lot there. I’m so glad you asked me about this. It’s been a while since I’ve talked about listening hygiene. So in your fessing up just a second ago, too, I don’t listen, I don’t like I love how freaking honest that is. Like, I wish so many more people would just be honest. I remember the first time I had a friend. Just tell me on the phone. I’m sorry. I was distracted. I didn’t listen to the whole story you just told me. Can you say it from the beginning? And I was like, I didn’t know that was an option. I’m not listening. 40% of the time folks are talking to me. I didn’t realize I could just be honest about it and then have them tell me again when I am listening. So but I think that probably a lot of people might not know that you’re not listening when you’re not listening. And the reason is because you have good listening skills. So what do I mean by that? You know how to lean in on one elbow. You know how to mimic listening behavior. You know how to. Yep. You know how to make eye contact. You know how to nod your head at the appropriate time. Not too fast. So it looks anxious. You know how to sit with open body posture because this makes people feel like you don’t have time for them.
Shaking your foot crazy with your legs crossed over makes people feel like you’re in a hurry for them to shut up so you can move on to the next thing. So you know.

[00:17:48] Betty Collins
Not to be. Is this like, I’m sorry. Sorry I’ve digressed. Yes.

[00:17:54] Andrea Flack Wetherald
You know, not to be checking your time. The phone email like you have good listening skills. You know how to make it look like you’re listening. So do like, a lot of freaking people. We’ve all learned how to play, act listening because we’ve been to 94 seminars or soft skills classes in college or whatever about open body language and like all this stuff. So like, we know how to fake it. So good listening hygiene is a different thing. Listening hygiene means I am proactively every day taking care of the things that I need to take care of so I can actually hear you. The example that I give in the book is just like you don’t get to learn about hygiene when you’re in grade school, whenever you learn about it and be like, Great, now I know, like now I know. So I’m just clean forever. Like it takes proactive effort. Every day you have to shower, you have to wear deodorant, you have to like do stuff, brush your teeth. If you don’t do that stuff, you’re going to stink. And that doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you. You’re not the kind of person who can be clean. Like, it’s not what? That that’s not what that means. It means you have bad habits. And when you change those habits, you won’t stink anymore. You’re not going to permanently stink forever. That’s how hygiene is.

[00:19:18] Andrea Flack Wetherald
And so I think that a skill is something that you can learn. And when you practice it long enough, you can do it without thinking and still successfully do that thing like playing the piano, like driving a stick shift. Unless it’s in Pittsburgh and there’s Turkey like, you know, like just there’s different things that are a skill. That’s a skill, you know? But listening is not that because you can fake it fake and it will look like you’re doing it, but you’ll miss something that’s important, you know? And when you’re not actually listening, you’re not actually connecting. You’re doing a disservice to the people around you by faking. It’s so much better. It would be better if you never learned a single listening skill so that if you weren’t listening, you just freaking fell asleep in front of someone or something. It would be better for people if they didn’t think you were listening when you’re not. And you know. Anyhow. So. So that. That’s what I say is the difference between a listening skill versus a practice of listening hygiene. So here are examples of listening hygiene.
Listening hygiene means that you cancel meetings if your spouse just left you after 12 years of marriage, you cancel those meetings that day rather than committing to some bullshit. Am I allowed to say that on here? You can. Okay, great.

[00:20:34] Betty Collins
It’s all right. It’s all good.

[00:20:37] Andrea Flack Wetherald
Rather than committing to this ridiculous story that professionals don’t have feelings and they soldier through it like adults, you’re not going to be listening. And you know that if it’s the anniversary of your mom dying, you don’t go to work that day or you make sure that you’ve done what you need to do. Whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. You don’t schedule your meetings back to back to back to back to back with no buffer zone. Because then what you’re doing is you tense up. Your brain is thinking about that next meeting. Do I have all the papers I need for that? Did I remember to tell so-and-so to fax whatever it is like? That’s what your brain is doing. It’s not listening. Your body is.

[00:21:17] Betty Collins
And you are going like this. Okay?

[00:21:19] Andrea Flack Wetherald
Yeah, right. Your body is doing what it needs to do. Your brain is not. So whatever you need to do so that your brain is checked in, you’re proactive about doing that. And so that’s what listening hygiene is. And then it won’t matter so much if you accidentally, like slump in your chair or whatever, like your brain is checked in. And so whatever your physical body is doing, I feel like I’m moving my hands so much. I’m probably making a lot of, like, unnecessary sounds into my microphone.

[00:21:49] Betty Collins
No, you’re fine. He would tell you because yesterday I was shaking the screen. He’s like, You’re shaking the screen. I’m like, okay, you’re fine. But but I mean, there’s truth in that. I mean, I’ve never thought about the fact that if I didn’t schedule 80% of my day, which turns into 110%, I would have better skills. I it’s a hard it’s a hard thing for me. But I’ve tried working on this of just slow down and stop and quit thinking about your response.

[00:22:22] Speaker3
Mm hmm.

[00:22:23] Betty Collins
That’s a that’s a big one for me. So I’m like, okay, listening skills, listening I have to work on. Your response is not the most important thing right now.

[00:22:35] Andrea Flack Wetherald
What you mean is you’re telling that to yourself.

[00:22:38] Betty Collins
Yes, to myself in my brain. I’m going. Your response is not the most important thing. And even this person.

[00:22:44] Andrea Flack Wetherald
May I reframe that a little bit?

[00:22:46] Betty Collins
Please do.

[00:22:46] Andrea Flack Wetherald
May I? Yes. So because I think that your response is just as important as anything that I’m saying. But I think what I would most hope for you and anyone else is to just trust yourself enough. They one of my favorite things of improv taking classes and stuff was when the number of times they would say the answer is in your scene partner’s eyes. Whatever response that you’re looking for, you’ll find it. If you’re checked in and you’re listening because you’re smart, you’re a fantastic improviser. You say you’re afraid of improv, but you’re not. You’re afraid of performing. You’re afraid of drunk people paying money for you to be funny on command. Lots of people are afraid of that. You’re not afraid of improv. You’re a great improviser. It’s just a matter of deciding to support your scene partner in the way that says the words that you’re saying are important to me. And I believe that if I’m listening to those words, I’ll have whatever I need next.

[00:23:44] Betty Collins
Yeah, that’s good. So brain checked in. I’ve got I’ve got to work on that. I like that you’re checked in. I’ll think about it. Yeah. I mean, because we just. We aren’t. We are too. We’re doing too many things too many times too much. I mean, it. It’s. So if you really want to have the art of relationships that the where you it’s not even about that way. The outcomes for me are really good. I’m not saying that, but that the outcome overall is really good.

[00:24:20] Andrea Flack Wetherald
Oh yes, you are speaking truth. You’re speaking really deep wisdom right now. So in improv there are objectives as well. The theater needs the show to go well. They need people to have a good time and spend their money to buy tickets and come back and leave reviews and tell their friends and like those are concrete objectives that that the theater needs as a business to achieve in order to survive. And we know that as performers, we know these things need to happen. The ask of improv is can you trust that by listening to each other just really, really honestly with your whole heart and your whole attention, listening to each other and just losing yourself in this moment, can you trust that those objectives will be met and will be met better when? And you make each other the priority and you just kind of leave those objectives alone for a minute. And when I think about what you’re saying about booking out your schedule 80% and doing all this and like I do that kind of thing, too, I’m going to be honest. Like I get caught up. I was praying about it this very morning that I’ve noticed myself getting into these old habits that I know do not honor my scene partners and do not honor what I want to be about while I’m on this planet.

[00:25:38] Andrea Flack Wetherald
And I’m like, Why do I do that? Well, I know why I do that. It’s because I’m an entrepreneur. I’m trying to make some money. I’m trying to make some stuff happen. Like that’s why I do it. I believe that if I hustle harder, more stuff will get done, more bigger impact. And it’s not just about money. I’m being a little bit silly, but I want to have the biggest impact as possible. And I tell myself that if I hustle harder, that will happen faster. But what I know is really true. I know it is so true that things happen in their own right time and that how I make people feel when they’re spending time with me matters so much and the quality of what I’m writing and whether I’m writing it because I have to and I have to get a certain number of words written a day, or I’m writing because that’s when the wisdom came to me. Yeah.

[00:26:32] Betty Collins
I Sunday, yeah. Sunday morning my husband said, So what are you going to do today? Because by the time I get to this point in tax season, I do church online and I don’t I just really want to be in the guest bedroom with all these pillows and I want to have my iPad and my phone and a stack of books and notebooks and then a table full of different drinks that I do.

[00:26:55] Andrea Flack Wetherald
For similar people. Yeah, he.

[00:26:57] Betty Collins
Goes, I don’t I don’t get this. I said, Today I’m going to be well in two days. I’m going to have eight podcasts that get recorded. It’s a lot. I have all the questions, I have all the topics, I have all the people booked. We have everything ready to go. But I need to sit back and if I’m going to do my best at this, I need to be prepared mentally, not just here’s my questions. Let’s go. Yeah, that’s all part of it, right? But the and he says, okay, I don’t understand. I said, You don’t need to. But part of this whole process for me is that I can sit back and do that. And so he said, okay, I’ll just I’ll leave you alone. We’re all good, you know? And these two days have gone really smooth and I have been able to give my best at it because I’m not preoccupied, even though today I had a board meeting with a volunteer organization at 12, I had a meeting in my office with a bunch of women for the conference. I have my podcast going on at the same time and it’s three meetings all from 12 to 2 and you’re going to get one. Yeah, but I was ready because I did sit back and I did not have my brain so overloaded that I couldn’t I couldn’t do it. But I’ve not thought about the brain check as part of the listening skill or hygiene. That’s really good. See, I’m learning still. That’s why I’m only on chapter like three. I keep doing this. I keep hashing through it. And how can I apply this right?

[00:28:30] Andrea Flack Wetherald
It takes a lot of trust in your ensemble, like the other people on your team to believe that it’s safe for your business or whatever your concrete deliverables are, your concrete objectives. It takes a lot of trust in yourself and in your scene partners to really believe that it’s safe to do less better. But that has been my goal, is to do less better this year.

[00:28:55] Betty Collins
It’s a good goal. It’s really good. I just when you said I’m going to hustle harder, if you hustle, you’ll get there. You don’t have to hustle harder, right? I know, but it’s hard.

[00:29:07] Andrea Flack Wetherald
And you call me every day and tell me that.

[00:29:09] Betty Collins
No, I mean, I’m my own worst enemy. Are you kidding me? Okay, so we’re going to go to receive everything as a gift. It sounds so comforting, but we don’t do this very well. We don’t receive well. I don’t know if that’s always been in in the world, but I loved this illustration. And we’re talking about we’re going to talk about confrontation a little bit. And confrontation is like a pinata. This is one of my favorite things in the book. Love this thinking. So let’s talk about explain what that means.

[00:29:51] Speaker3
Yeah.

[00:29:51] Andrea Flack Wetherald
So one of the things that I have been very fond of encouraging people to reframe for themselves is the language that they use around confrontation or tough conversations, feedback, whatever you want to call it. But like so often we say like the shit hit the fan or somebody got. Shot down or there was an explosion or we have like this violent, disgusting imagery to talk about these kind of moments. And that’s a shame because as unpleasant as they may feel in the moment or uncomfortable or whatever, there’s another way to think about it. So the analogy that I encourage people to use is a pinata. So if we think about that, a pinata is also something that’s been hanging over our heads. It’s the recipient of some focused and forceful momentum. It bursts open and then gifts fall from the sky. And that is also what is happening in those moments, intense as they may be, that gifts are falling from the sky. And the when I share this whole story, I think I say this in the book also, that if you imagine being at a birthday party where you’ve never seen a pinata before and you don’t know like you see this kid getting blindfolded and you’re like, what is going on? And you see this adorable papier maché creature being hoisted up into a tree, you know, And you’re like, What a strange thing to do.

[00:31:19] Andrea Flack Wetherald
And then you see that they get a baseball bat and you’re like, Oh, no. Like, I don’t want to watch. If you cover your eyes and you don’t see what’s happening, then you don’t get to see Mom. Grandma trusted grown up handing out gift bags for each of the kids. You don’t see them running and finding, you know, the stuff that is exciting to them. You don’t get to see any of that. So if you walk over there later in your bare feet because it’s a cool summer birthday and you step on a cracked in half Jolly Rancher or a little G.I. Joe guy with his little parachute in your bare feet, that doesn’t feel like a gift. It feels like a booby trap. The same exact thing that might have felt like a gift. Like, oh, yay, a G.I. Joe. It doesn’t feel that way. If it surprised you and you stepped on it because you weren’t looking for it. And so what I encourage people to think about is like, this is exactly how it is with confrontation presents.

[00:32:10] Andrea Flack Wetherald
They’re not wrapped in a pretty bow for you, but don’t miss the gift just because it wasn’t wrapped like they are there for you. They are pointing at something that is helpful. They’re pointing at a process that needs to be fixed. They’re pointing at an area of growth for you that will excel you forward in life. You know, like these gifts are powerful opportunities for human connection because trust is born in these moments of confrontation. How we handle confrontation determines the culture in our group of people, whether it’s an office or a family or a marriage or whatever, The way you handle confrontation determines what kind of trust is in that relationship, the way that you either avoid it or get overzealous and talk over people and don’t give them a chance to, you know, share their perspective. That’s what determines the trust. It doesn’t matter what kind of pictures you put on your company, Instagram or if you have a ping pong table or whatever. The only thing that decides trust is when push comes to shove and rubber meets the road and someone is being vulnerable and sharing their unpopular opinion or their perspective or whatever. How do you handle it? That’s where trust is born.

[00:33:27] Betty Collins
Well, and when I thought of the pinata, I’m thinking, we all want the gift. We all want the candy that’s flying out. We all want the chocolate, We all want the end result. But we probably don’t want to be blindfolded and hit the thing until somebody breaks it, Right. But when?

[00:33:46] Speaker3
Yeah, that’s a good point.

[00:33:47] Betty Collins
Right? So but when you in my opinion, when you have when you take and look at things as everything’s a gift, including confrontation, including dealing with the hard stuff, including combativeness and that needs to get to collaborative ness, I almost got it. It’s well worth it, but it’s a really, really hard core to get and and go, okay, let’s go confront something. Let’s go have the crucial conversation so that everybody can get along in the office. Let’s go blow up about the kitchen sink because people keep living, leaving their stinking stuff in the sink in the office, and then I blow up. So the gift of that was I finally just went, get the paper products. We’re done. No more dishes. Stay away from the sink. But I mean, I mean, I look at at receiving you know, we think of the gift is, oh, you know, give everyone grace and everything’s lovely and everything’s beautiful and those things are fine. But when I really dove into, you know, the gift at the end was because there was hard work to get there. And and I’ve tried to step back when I know I have confrontation that I have to deal with or I have a situation that I have to deal with if I deal with it. You’re saying in the right way. Trust comes out of it, results come out of it or the problem is resolved. The chocolate comes out of the pinata, you know, and it’s just it’s perfect. But what a core. That’s a hard core to get to because we don’t see those things as gifts. We don’t see that. Sure. We see.

[00:35:31] Speaker3
Actually. Yeah.

[00:35:34] Andrea Flack Wetherald
So I’ve I’ve my language around this has evolved a little bit since the book came out to where now I say give and receive everything as a gift because the what we’ve talked about so far, like receiving this as a gift when people give you prickly feedback and it’s hard to hear, receive it as a gift. How can I grow from this? And maybe the growth isn’t what they intended. Maybe the growth isn’t that you do whatever their thing is. Maybe the growth is that you learn who it’s good to take advice from and who it isn’t. Thanks situation helpful for me, you know. Um, but the other part of it is giving everything as a gift. So when you learn to offer your contributions to the scene as a gift that changes the way that you handle confrontation, when you really believe this is not a bad thing I’m doing, it’s not a mean thing I’m doing. We all like as adults, know that consciously, but deep down in our hearts we’re like, But I want people to like me.

[00:36:33] Speaker3
But but I’m sad if this makes it weird, you know? Yeah. Um.

[00:36:39] Andrea Flack Wetherald
And so when you shift in your head and you say, this is a gift that I’m giving to this person, what does that change for you? I mean, it changes the way that you present it. You don’t apologize for giving somebody a gift. You’re not all, like, weird and like, Oh, I’m so sorry. If you have the time. Like, it’s like I have a gift for you. Let’s get it on the books. When are we getting marks and doing this thing? Like you get it on the calendar, You make it happen when it’s a gift. And you also don’t throw it at their face like there’s not any gift in the world that anybody wants chucked at their face. And so you also handle it tenderly. You know, you respect the thing that you’re giving. You present it in a way that it’s receivable. You don’t wrap it in toilet paper and stick it in a garbage bag and hand it to them. Like you’re thoughtful about the presentation, you know? So like when you think about giving your thing as a gift, it changes the way you honor and stand behind your decision to give it to them, you know? And that has been like really gorgeous for me in my life to think about my willingness to say to people that I love and respect and let’s put a pin in the love and respect piece to like my willingness to say things that I didn’t use to be brave enough to say has been because I’ve realized this is a gift.

[00:38:01] Andrea Flack Wetherald
I believe that this person wants to honor the other people involved in the situation. I think this person doesn’t realize the way they’re coming across or I think whatever, you know, my willingness to say, hey, this is what I’m seeing here. Hey, I feel weird about this too, but I’m willing to sit in this awkwardness with you because of how much I value our relationship and because of how much I value what we can create together moving forward or whatever, you know? And the reason I said the put a pin in the love and respect thing is that it’s a really weird thing that we do, but it’s also like super human. And most of us do it that when we love and respect people, we kind of make it seem like we can’t hold them accountable. Like we have to pick between loyalty and accountability. We have to pick between honoring them and having consequences. And that’s not true. Like, that’s not true at all. Like love does not mean you do the emotional gymnastics forever to excuse bad behavior. Yeah. In the presence of love, it is safe to speak truth.

[00:39:06] Betty Collins
Well, when I look at this, I always bring this back to to. How does it apply to Betty the CPA? How do I how do I put this in perspective? Right. But one of the things that we did in our firm was we came up with different client levels A, B, C’s and D’s and the demon. It wasn’t a large client, a small client. It wasn’t it was just not the right client. And so we had conversations not with just the client, we had conversations with the team as we were hanging the pinata. What are we going to do with this client? So they were involved, We were involved. And the refreshing thing was, is for our team was when they saw that, when we saw a client that wasn’t a fit, we got rid of them because the team member was more important. Yeah, the culture was more important. How we were doing things was more important. And it is a gift when some of these. People are not coming back this year for tax season. You know, and I’ve tried to go with with things like even even I’ve got someone right now where confrontation needs to happen. Okay. And they’re they’ve gone silent on me, so I’ve got to figure that out. But I know in the end, if I pursue that confrontation, it’ll be worth doing.

[00:40:35] Andrea Flack Wetherald
And I’m excited for you to get to the next couple chapters because there’s specific like mindful improv thinking advice for that exact thing that you’re describing, right?

[00:40:45] Betty Collins
I mean, I mean, there’s been so much just in these cause that I feel like you could really just spend a lot of time in each of them. And I would encourage my audience, this is a longer podcast, which is why it’s two parts, but there are so much into changing how you see things, how you do things that I would challenge you to, to read the book and get into that. So we’re going to wind down today and obviously they can buy your book by and they can go get a cup of tea and a Celsius and cold water and sit on a big bed with a bunch of blankets and pillows and dive in. But they can find you in all kinds of places. So where can we find Andrea Flack Weatherald.

[00:41:31] Andrea Flack Wetherald
Linkedin is one of the best places to connect with me, but I also have an online community called the Mindful Improv Community, and it’s for free, but it’s a group of people that’s now global, which has been so fun. Yeah. That are putting these mindful improv thinking ideas to practice in their various forms of work. The book has a leadership angle because that’s a lot of my following on LinkedIn. But when I say leader, I really mean that with a broad brush. Like people who have a culture stake and have the audacity to believe that things can get better and are pouring their heart into that work. You’re a leader. Even if your job title doesn’t say that you’re a leader. So the mindful improv community is made up of pastors, teachers, social workers, actors, activists and CEOs and entrepreneurs and just all kinds of people. But the idea is we are using mindful improv thinking to make the world a braver, kinder, safer place in whatever is our specific way. We can do that. That is what we are committed to. And so that’s a great way to do it. I’ll send the link to you guys so you can put it in the podcast notes if people want to join. And then also I’m on YouTube and I just recently started a new series that’s been super fun. It’s called Bad Advice for Cool People. Okay, so if you’re just sick to death of the constant self-help content out in the world and you would just like some good old fashioned bad advice, yeah, sometimes you just want that.

[00:43:01] Speaker3
Yeah.

[00:43:04] Andrea Flack Wetherald
They can listen to the the bad advice for Cool People playlist on my YouTube channel.

[00:43:09] Betty Collins
Okay. And then they can buy the book at Amazon, correct?

[00:43:13] Speaker3
Yes.

[00:43:14] Andrea Flack Wetherald
1 to 49 copies get on Amazon, but 50 or more. You can reach out to me through my website. The book I had the intention when I wrote the book of people reading it together, you know, churches, reading it together, employees, teams reading it together. So but then, of course, I can get a discount. Yeah. For you for that. So.

[00:43:35] Betty Collins
So I would really recommend first of all, this is a two part, so I hope you’ve listened to both parts. The Funny thing about Forgiveness by Andrea Weatherall and it is a life changing book if you dive in and it really has a lot of of practical things, but yet if you dive in, you’re going to really start being so much more aware of the people on your team, the people in your family, the people in your social circles, whatever those are. So, Andrea, thank you for joining us today. So, so appreciated and you’ve given us a lot of time and some great insight. And again, you can get her information and the notes of the podcast and I would tell you to check it out.

[00:44:21] Andrea Flack Wetherald
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been such a pleasure to be back.

[00:44:24] Betty Collins
Okay. Thank you so much. As your career advances continue, your financial opportunities will continue to grow. Be prepared. Visit broadwayworld.com Backslash Resources to find everything about inspiring women. This episode, plus an outline of Brady wearing company accounting services can be found in the episode show notes.