Get Known, Get Connected, Get Ahead – An Interview with Michelle Tillis Lederman (Inspiring Women, Episode 31)

[00:00:00] Betty Collins
Today, we’re going to talk about connection and how do you do that in the world today that has been experiencing and still is experiencing this pandemic? I promise you that we are not going to talk about COVID-19, but I am going to talk with a guest who will leave you inspired to leverage the benefits of this virtual environment, so you can create a personal connection and thrive because we all crave that. There are days I think, by June, we’ll be at events again. Then some days, I go, I don’t know that’s going to be June. We’ve got to learn to do it virtually. We’ve got to learn to still have connection. This guest, I think, is going to do that.

[00:00:39] Betty Collins
I personally struggled … For me, I’m a people person. I get energized when I am around others, whether it’s with work, peers, my family, friends, church, all of that. I love the buzz of my office, especially when it’s full, and everything’s going. Now, I will tell you, I still treasure and very much want to be out there with live events, but we’ll do that in time. I also have learned in the last year, for sure, that I can be energized by an empty house, and a slower pace.

[00:01:13] Betty Collins
Today, we’re just going to talk about how do we make connection? I want to do that. I have an amazing guest today, Michelle Tillis Lederman. She is a people expert who inspires organizations, and individuals to build real relationships, and then get results from that. Having worked with organizations large, and small, she’s identified the common struggle. It’s people challenges. Imagine that.

[00:01:38] Betty Collins
A former pastor of mine used to say his job would be so much easier – imagine, as a pastor – if he didn’t have to deal with people. Well, he wouldn’t be much of a pastor, then, right? Of course, he was kidding, but it was a struggle for him in how did he connect? There’s those of us who are people, and then, there’s people who have to be that, based on what they do.

[00:02:00] Betty Collins
Well, Michelle began her journey to training and speaking when she became disheartened by the lack of leadership, and communication she experienced in corporate America. I am a CPA. She was smarter. She is a recovering CPA who spent over a decade in finance. Michelle’s shift began when she wanted to teach hedge fund advisors how to convince her to invest. Michelle realized that she was a teacher at heart and began designing her own ideal career.

[00:02:28] Betty Collins
It was this change that led her to start Executive Essentials, a training company that provides communication, and leadership programs, as well as executive coaching, and services to enable others to excel professionally. She’s highly respected and endorsed. Michelle lives in New Jersey with her husband, and two sons, and two rescue dogs, which I saw on her website. They’re beautiful. She’s authored a book, The Connector’s Advantage, as well as three others.

[00:02:56] Betty Collins
Today, I want to focus on making the most of this new normal. Michelle, welcome to the program. Thank you for your time today, for being with us. My audience, and I are honored that you’re here to share, give us perspective, and inspire us. First, just give us a little- tell us a little bit about you.

[00:03:14] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Well, thank you for having me on. You already mentioned I’m an animal lover, especially of those rescues. I’m a travel, and adrenaline junkie. I have been to, I think, about 70 countries, at this point, and my kids have already been to 20, and they’re still in their early teenage years.

[00:03:34] Betty Collins
Wonderful.

[00:03:34] Michelle Tillis Lederman
What else about me? I’m 4’10” [crosstalk] piece of information. I love to share those aspects about myself because I always say that people don’t connect about what we do, but what we like to do. If there are scuba divers out there, or anybody’s ever jumped out of a plane, or if you have always had a dream of bottle-feeding a Siberian tiger, which I have, and you can see the pictures on my Facebook page, then we have something to talk about. When somebody says, “Tell me about you,” I don’t tell you about what I do, but I tell you about what I love to do.

[00:04:14] Betty Collins
I always like to start with that question because I want to get the audience to have exactly what you’re talking about. This is who I am; this is what I love to do. I’m also a travel junkie. Love it. I don’t know how many countries I’ve been in, but I absolutely love it. Didn’t get to start til I was about 40. Thankyou for sharing that with us. You’re a recovering CPA. Good for you. Tell us why you went from the CPA to the company – I talked a little bit about it, but let me hear it from your side.

[00:04:46] Michelle Tillis Lederman
It’s interesting, one of the mindsets of a connector that we’ll talk about is abundance. The opposite of abundance is scarcity. Everyone has experienced scarcity in some way, or form, in some part in their life. For me, growing up, there was financial scarcity. We tend to make decisions about our lives as an anecdote to something that was missing, whether it’s like, “Oh, I had a boyfriend that wasn’t affectionate,” then, you get the boyfriend that’s super affectionate, or whatever it might be.

[00:05:13] Michelle Tillis Lederman
For me, going into finance was financial security. There was always going to be a job there. It was good pay, but itwas really about what I was looking for in my life, and what I was good at, but not what I was passionate about. I think a lot of us make those types of decisions, but I was pretty good at it.

[00:05:36] Michelle Tillis Lederman
I was the only woman on a trading floor. I was the only woman on a global venture capital team. It was an interesting place to be, but as the only woman on the trading floor, I was witness to a lot of poor communication, and even worse management. I had people pitching me that they wanted me to invest in hedge funds. I’m sitting there going, “That’s not how you getmy money!”

[00:06:03] Betty Collins
Very good.

[00:06:06] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Really, it started because I was the one who said, “Let me go on recruiting for my accounting firm, and let me teach, and onboard the new hires. I’ll do a class on capital asset pricing model for the newcomers,” because those are the things I loved, and I was trying to fit them into where I was. I think what we need to do, and probably what a lot of your listeners are doing, is designing their ideal.
They’re creating the careers, and the businesses that fulfill that passion.

[00:06:33] Betty Collins
Right, and I can relate to exactly what you’re saying because I went into accounting because I had to choose a major by year three. I’d taken all my classes, and I’m like, “Oh, my goodness.” Accounting was just a job for me, and it could be a good job, and on, and on. So, I can relate to taking the secured path.

[00:06:55] Betty Collins
It took me til I was almost probably 45 to 50 to go through this shift of, no, I’d like to inspire women business owners, and I would like to have a podcast; which, if you told me that 20 years ago … We didn’t really have them … I relate to what you’re saying, in the terms of I’m going to follow a passion; I’m going to go because something in my life happened like lack of communication.

[00:07:19] Michelle Tillis Lederman
The great thing is that you figured it out, and you did it. I figured it out and didn’t do it. I figured it out when Iwas 19, in my sophomore year of college, that I didn’t like it, but I was like, “Oh, it’s too late to change.”

[00:07:31] Betty Collins
Nope, too late … Oh, my goodness. I did figure it out because I went through just a time in my life where I said I want to do something that has impact, and this isn’t it, so I just went down some other path; still stayed in accounting. Fortunately, I’m with a company that allows me to do it. I do understand always taking on something else in accounting that most people don’t want to take on, like, “Can you can you do a podcast for our company?” Most of my CPA people are going to go, “No …”

[00:08:06] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Isn’t that fascinating?

[00:08:07] Betty Collins
It is.

[00:08:08] Michelle Tillis Lederman
You are actually embodying some of the connectors’ mindsets, because I did the same thing when I was still in finance. I went to the CEO of the company and said, “Hey, I’m going to be doing this on the side. I just got appointed to NYU as an adjunct professor.
Here’s the classes they offered me. Which do you prefer I take?”

[00:08:30] Michelle Tillis Lederman
It’s that communication, that relationship, that connection that you had with the organization that allowed you to have the flexibility to do what you want to do and still have that soft landing, that safety net, as you’re building it out. I applaud you for for figuring out that that communication, that relationship can make that difference. For those people who are out there listening, and thinking, “I want to do that. I want to do that, and I’m scared.” Well, what would be your ideal, and how can you make that happen?

[00:09:00] Betty Collins
Right. I’m sure we’ll talk about this as we flow into connection, which, by the way, I bought five of your books on Amazon, on connection, because they treat me so well, and I’m going to give them out to people in my office for our women’s initiative. When I shifted, and decided I’m going to do things that are more about what I would be good at, or like, one of the things was how can I make a connection to my partner, who is this great big audit guy, and tax guy, and they’re energized by the IRS code? How do I make a connection with them?

[00:09:32] Betty Collins
I think that’s why I was really attracted to this subject matter that you have addressed and obviously built a wonderful company on. I don’t really want to talk about COVID-19. Everyone’s tired of talking about it, but it’s a reality. We have this new normal, which has really affected connection, so I would love to open up- just give us some of that insight on this new normal in connection. How did you deal with that over this last year?

[00:10:00] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Absolutely. Social isolation is so detrimental. It is actually more detrimental on your health, and mortality than obesity, or smoking. As you put it out there, it feels like we are all isolated, but I actually think there’ve been some really positive outcomes of this pandemic on connection because, for those that are working, and they’re working virtually, what we have happen is we are getting a window into people’s full lives.

[00:10:34] Michelle Tillis Lederman
A lot of times, we have our work person, and our personal person, and they don’t cross. They have to cross now. There’s no way that they can’t cross. I actually think it’s going to create more empathetic, and more connected cultures in organizations, when we are back in person, because you can’t keep the cat off your keyboard, and the dog from barking, and the kids from all of a sudden … My son came into my husband’s office after being outside for an hour in the freezing cold, and put his hands right on my husband’s face while he was on camera.

[00:11:05] Betty Collins
Of course. It’s what kids do.

[00:11:09] Michelle Tillis Lederman
He didn’t know it … He was just like, “Ahh! I’m going to get him!” There’s this beautiful thing where we have this window, and it is making us feel more connected to those that we work with. We are opening up, and sharing, and being more understanding, so I think there are some really great things that have come out of it.

[00:11:31] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Now, there are, of course, challenges because I’m like you, I am energized by other people. I find that this time has given me the excuse to reach out to those that we haven’t been in touch with, or that we’re tentative to reach out to because it’s pretty simple to just say, “Hey, how you holding up? How’s it going for you?” It might not create a long conversation and maybe it will, but either way, you have just rekindled that connection. I will tell you, I’ve had more backyard, socially distanced barbecues with my friends from college, and my neighbors, and all these people because we’re all seeking that opportunity.

[00:12:17] Betty Collins
Don’t you find that you appreciate it more when you do have interaction, and connection because of this time? I definitely am like, “Oh, my gosh, I get to see you today,” and it’s a bigger deal. I’ve also been more particular about who I see, or even connect with on Zoom. Do you find that that’s a positive thing, that I would narrow down my connection, so I have a better one. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

[00:12:47] Michelle Tillis Lederman
There is no good, or bad, really. I don’t want people to think there’s one right way to do things. If what you are doing is working for you, then I applaud it. As long as you are staying connected, then you’re good, if it’s working for you. There is the idea of going deep in certain relationships, or going wide, and it’s a matter of what you need, or want in the moment.

[00:13:13] Michelle Tillis Lederman
When we think about the connector spectrum … Just to give the framework for your listeners, there is a spectrum of connection. You can be a non-connector, emerging, responsive, acting, or you can get to the upper echelons of connectors, people who really prioritize relationships in everything that they do, to the super connector, niche connector, and global super connector.

[00:13:38] Michelle Tillis Lederman
If you want to get to the top, you have to have not just deep connections, but broad connections because it’s that breadth that gives you access to different thinking, up, and down the ladder, and across industry, and across demographics, and geographies. Really, you will find that you can be more innovative with access to varied thinking.

[00:14:04] Betty Collins

Awesome. I love that. I’ll have to think on that. I love the way you said that. Now, let me ask you this. How do we leverage the benefits of a virtual environment to create personal connection in a thriving network?

[00:14:21] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Because the virtual world is just one more channel. When we think about connection, there are so many channels we can connect over. Yes, we have the face to face; we have the large group networks; we have the phone; we have text, and instant messaging, and Instagram, and social media, and we have Zoom, and FaceTime. There’s tons of channels.

[00:14:42] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Really, in this time, we’ve lost a few of those face-to-face options, but we still have all the other channels. I always say the more channels you connect over, the stronger the roots that connection will bind. Let’s use the channels that we have accessible to us. Honestly, the virtual video chat channel, whether you use Skype, or Zoom, or Teams, or FaceTime, the video component is so valuable.

[00:15:13] Michelle Tillis Lederman
I’ve had clients that I’ve coached for six months, never met in person, and have had strong, successful relationships. I had a person working for me – she still works for me; we’re probably going on five years – never met her in person, and she’s like a little sister. It’s because we will connect on screen. We might not be in the same space, but we are in each other’s space, and we’re in each other’s face.

[00:15:39] Betty Collins
Yes. I’ve done this probably almost seven years. I’ve had a women’s conference; Brady Ware has sponsored a women’s conference. We started the first year with 135, and I thought, man, I did such an awesome job, but by year six, we had had 350 people, a national speaker. The whole point of the day – it was about a day and a half – was the connection you got. It was that one on one; it was all my four offices coming to the event, as well as national speakers. You got to meet the panels, you got to do all that thing.

[00:16:16] Betty Collins
When COVID hit in March, we had such an amazing lineup of speakers, and panels, and we had to cancel. That was my defining moment meltdown of I don’t want to do a virtual conference because the connection is the thing, when you’re there – the energy in the room. I really had to learn about how do I leverage the benefit of this time, and moment because we’re going to do the conference this year because it’s too important to do.

[00:16:47] Betty Collins
I’m not going to get to do it in the same way, but I’m going to use the benefits, right now, that we can around us, but it’s hard to do that. It’s so hard for me, but I got to do it because the conference is more important to have than how I want to have it. Does that make sense?

[00:17:04] Michelle Tillis Lederman
I totally get that. I feel you. Let’s put a little twist on it.

[00:17:11] Betty Collins
Okay.

[00:17:11] Michelle Tillis Lederman
I agree. There’s nothing like face to face, and the organic way that connections form, when you’re just mulling about a space, or getting coffee, or in the ladies room line because you always meet people in the ladies room line.

[00:17:25] Betty Collins
Absolutely. Best relationships, right?

[00:17:28] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Oh, my God. I hired somebody at the dog park, but [inaudible] supermarkets, and bathrooms, I meet people all the time. What I would say is there is an advantage to doing it in this virtual format that can really help some people that struggle in those environments, where they find it overwhelming to attend these events, to go up to strangers.

[00:17:51] Michelle Tillis Lederman
When you have to just force them into a breakout room, they don’t have to do it for themselves. When you give them a topic to discuss in that breakout room, when you call on them, you give them a floor, and an opportunity that they don’t necessarily raise their hand to take themselves, but will step into when offered.

[00:18:08] Betty Collins
No, that’s great. Again, thank you for helping me see that. I don’t know why I haven’t seen that side … You are right. Plus, the other thing is I’ll be able to have people from Pennsylvania could be on if they wanted to, versus just central Ohio.

[00:18:25] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Absolutely. That’s another awesome thing is that now people have access so far and wide. I gave a keynote in Australia one day, and I did a keynote in Britain like literally seven hours later.

[00:18:37] Betty Collins

Oh, wow. Of course [crosstalk] you and I still would rather have gone to Australia, right?

[00:18:43] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Oh, for sure. I said next time I’m coming in person, and the whole family’s coming, just saying … It was really fun. I did something in Canada … We’re still being able to bring people together in ways that we weren’t doing it before.

[00:18:59] Betty Collins
That’s a great, great communication to my audience because think of the benefits that are there because of the virtual environment. We have to get our mind set to that. Some of these things will continue on, and we’ll be better for it.

[00:19:13] Betty Collins
In your book – you’ve written a book … Actually, you have four books – The Connector’s Advantage, you talk about the seven mindsets to grow your influence, and impact, and you say it is the strength of your relationships that lead to your success. Let’s talk about those seven mindsets and that strength that you’re talking about. Can you give us insight on that?

[00:19:36] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Absolutely. I can probably talk on this for an hour on its own, so I’ll stop every once in a while, so you can jump back in.

[00:19:43] Betty Collins
Okay, I will.

[00:19:46] Michelle Tillis Lederman
First of all, let me define what I mean by “the connector’s advantage.” Whatever it is that you’re working on, whether it is new job, promotion, starting a business, getting a referral, getting a new client, even health, and happiness, you are going to get there faster, easier, and better through relationships. That’s what the advantage is – faster, easier, better results. Anybody can adopt these attitudes, and mindsets of a connector to reach that same advantage. The seven mindsets are- I’ll list them, and you can tell me which ones you want me to dive into.

[00:20:18] Betty Collins
Okay.

[00:20:18] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Connectors are open, and accepting. They have a clear vision. They come from a place of abundance. Connectors trust. They are social, and curious. They’re conscientious, and they have a generous spirit.

[00:20:32] Betty Collins
Well, I’d like you to do them all, and we could just have an hour together. How’s that? I definitely like the generous spirit, when you said that … What was the first one you said?

[00:20:44] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Open and accepting. Clear vision.

[00:20:46] Betty Collins
Open, and accepting. Let’s talk about open, and accepting. That hit me right off, so let’s talk there.

[00:20:53] Michelle Tillis Lederman
This the foundation is to be open, and accepting. By the way, these seven mindsets are not linear. It’s not like you have to do one, and then you can do the next. They enable each other. To be open, and accepting is not just open and accepting of somebody else. We have a tendency to form conclusions very quickly. That’s a natural thing. It’s not a judgment. It is a necessity because we’re taking in so much information, our minds have to process, and form conclusions very quickly.

[00:21:26] Michelle Tillis Lederman
To be open is to stay open to being wrong. It is to slow your thinking down enough to allow additional information to come in to continue to form before conclusions are made. There’s four questions that I had people ask themselves. By the way, you don’t have to ask all four questions, but if any one of these questions come in your mind, it will slow your thinking down. What I call it is staying in a place of curiosity versus conclusion.

[00:21:52] Michelle Tillis Lederman
The four questions: what don’t I know? If something happens, some situation happens, somebody says something, what don’t I know? The second question is what could be another way to interpret that, or what could be another reason for that? Sometimes, it’s coming up with crazy reasons like why were they late? Well, the obvious ones are they were irresponsible, or they don’t care. The crazy ones could be the body snatchers came and took them the in the pod, and the pod wouldn’t open, and they couldn’t get back in time [crosstalk]

[00:22:25] Betty Collins
That sounds like social media today … Yeah, go ahead.

[00:22:30] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Sometimes, coming up with the crazy reason will slow your thinking down, and say, okay, wait, I don’t know the answer. Let’s see if I can get more information before I decide.

[00:22:41] Betty Collins
Yeah.

[00:22:42] Michelle Tillis Lederman
The third is what if I’m wrong? What’s the impact to the relationship, or to the work? The last one is what am I trying to do right?

[00:22:50] Betty Collins
I’ve come to the conclusion in this last year that I ask more questions than I do just rambling. I ask questions so I’ll have answers, and I love the way those questions flow. You had me at slowing down your thinking. That is a crucial skill set to me. I wish I had that. How do I slow that down so I can make not a judgment, but maybe conclusion’s a better word. That’s just huge-

[00:23:22] Michelle Tillis Lederman
That’s what we do. We just need to slow it down, and that will keep us open. When I do talk about open, and accepting, I’m not just talking about being open and accepting of others. I’m talking about being open, and accepting of ourselves, and of our unique charms, as I call them.

[00:23:40] Betty Collins
I love the fact that you’re almost … I can visualize myself asking these questions in my mind before I say something. I don’t know if that’s-

[00:23:52] Michelle Tillis Lederman
You don’t have to ask them all. Honestly, one, or two of those will slow your thinking down enough to say, “Maybe I need to pose a question to take more information in.”

[00:24:00] Betty Collins
I love that. Now, let me ask you – I know you said, “Tell me the mindsets you want to talk about.” I’m going to ask it this way- what’s the mindset that you probably struggle with the most from your seven?

[00:24:14] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Personally, for me, it’s abundance.

[00:24:17] Betty Collins
Okay, let’s talk about that.

[00:24:19] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Well, we started talking about it a little bit earlier about that anecdote to our life. Because I grew up with scarcity, we tend to be very protective, and defensive. That is a scarce mindset. It was very challenging for me to shift out of that, and it continues to be challenging. It’s a practice to adopt an abundant mindset. Now, let me be clear. An abundant mindset is not Pollyanna. “Everything’s great!” Abundance is about the possibility of it being better than it is, and not even the possibility, but the probability, and to work towards that likelihood.

[00:24:59] Michelle Tillis Lederman
It is a belief. It is about not comparing yourself against other people. That’s one of the habits, and the practices of abundance mindset because there’s somebody who’s always going to do better, and there’s somebody who is always going to do worse, but you really want to compare yourself against what you are working towards, and your goals. It is about understanding that envy, and jealousy are normal feelings, and you’re allowed them.

[00:25:28] Michelle Tillis Lederman
I remember somebody who, she had worked for me, and she got this amazing sports client that I was like, “I am so jealous!” I could have been beating myself up with, “Why didn’t I do that? How come I didn’t get them? How did she get access …?” I could’ve gone down the rabbit hole of beating myself up mentally and being almost resentful. Instead, I was like, “Okay, how can I learn? How did you do that? Do you need somebody else to help you?” I could be happy for her. It doesn’t mean the jealousy wasn’t there, as well, but it had its space, and it didn’t take over.

[00:26:07] Michelle Tillis Lederman
There’s one other habit that has really helped me maintain an abundant mindset, especially during this time of COVID. I know we don’t want to stay on there, but it is a challenging time, and it’s very easy for us to be negative. It’s very easy for us to say this is awful, and that’s awful, and this is going wrong. When people say, “How are you doing?” For the last year, I would exhale – because there is a lot of weight with everything going on – and then, I would say, “Feeling grateful.”

[00:26:35] Betty Collins
Very good.

[00:26:37] Michelle Tillis Lederman
I would list all the reasons why I was feeling grateful, because, you know what? I have kids that are old enough that they can actually help manage their virtual school. I have a space where each kid can be in a closed room and do school, and Ican do my work. We have good internet connection. I have two dogs that are keeping us from being only in the house. I would just list off all those things, and that practice of gratitude is a really great way to adopt that abundant mindset.

[00:27:11] Michelle Tillis Lederman

I’ll give a technique that everybody can adopt, whether you’re in COVID, or not. It’s a little small habit, and there’s two ways to implement it. It’s basically a daily question. You can do it at the dinner table with other people. You can say, “What was the best part of your day,” or “What was the highlight of your day?” Anything like that? I actually have a sign in my son’s room because he tends to be negative. It says, “Today might not be a good day, but there is good in every day.”

[00:27:37] Betty Collins
I like that.

[00:27:38] Michelle Tillis Lederman
My question to him would be, “What was the good in today?”

[00:27:40] Betty Collins
Very good. Boy, I’m so mesmerized listening to you, but I’m supposed to be interviewing you. I’m mesmerized, going, “Yeah, that’s good. That’s good.” How does your son respond when you do that to get that mindset? How does he respond?

[00:27:58] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Well, I stopped asking for highs, and lows, and I stopped asking, “How was your day?” Because he would only tell me the bad stuff. It became a habit of, “Tell me something good first, then, you can tell me everything else,” but just to start with the good. Again, it is a practice. These things don’t necessarily come naturally. We are wired a certain way. That daily question to yourself … It could be other questions. One question I would ask is did I make somebody smile today, or how did I make somebody smile today, or what one kind thing did I do today? Because I would feel good if I did something nice.

[00:28:32] Betty Collins
Very good. Well, I hate the fact that we’re already wrapping up because I could talk to you for a long time. I love where you’re coming from. I’m glad I ordered the book. I’m really excited about it. Learning, just developing the mindsets. I know for myself, through 2020 and going into 2021, which my first podcast of the year was, “It’s 2021. So What?” You know, it’s still the same day, but I’ve learned to separate branches, and twigs.

[00:29:00] Betty Collins
Branches have life rooted to a tree. There’s life there. Twigs are for burning on the fire, and temporary. I’ve learned to separate those, so that I have the right mindset. It’s just worked- it’s worked well for me. I really want to dive into your seven mindsets with the book. Let’s wrap up this way – I’d love for you to give just one takeaway to my audience that you would want them to hear that they will, because hopefully they’ve made it through this long, and they’ll just take that away and chew on it. What would it be?

[00:29:31] Michelle Tillis Lederman
To keep connecting and to keep connected because it will make that difference in not just your professional success, but just how you feel on a daily basis of knowing that you have a network of people there to support you. I will share with you that my family is going through some health issues, and the support that poured in from my community brought me to tears. Build it because- not because you need it, but because it is going to make you happier, and it’s going to make you healthier, and it’s going to be there if ever you do need it.

[00:30:13] Betty Collins
Wonderful. Well, Michelle, I certainly appreciate you coming on today, your time. You’re very busy, but you were so willing to be here with my audience. Again, we are grateful. I did buy your book on Amazon. You do have three other books. Can you give me the titles real quick?

[00:30:32] Michelle Tillis Lederman
Sure. Really, the two books to focus on – my first book was called “The 11 Laws of Likability,” and “The Connector’s Advantage” is actually a follow up to that book, so they go well together. I also wrote two books on interviewing. One is just for veterans. It’s called “Heroes Get Hired.” It’s actually free. Any veteran or their spouse can get that on Amazon, or on my website. The other one’s called “Nail the Interview – Land the Job.”

[00:30:56] Michelle Tillis Lederman
I would love to hear from your audience. They can always find me at my website, which is Michelle Tillis Lederman, and it’s L-E-D-E- R-M-A-N, dot com (MichelleTillisLederman.com) On that site, you can get a free quiz to figure out what level connector you are. I have lots of fun giveaways. If you join my community, you will get a video series; you’ll get free chapters from the books; you’ll get a branding exercise. Got lots of fun stuff. I love to hear how you found me.

[00:31:29] Betty Collins
We will have your bio, and your resources, and your social media places. We’ll have that all connected to this podcast, so that you can learn more about Michelle, and what she does. I am Betty Collins. I’m so glad you joined me today. Inspiring women – it’s what I do, and I leave you with this – being strong speaks of strength, but being courageous speaks to having a will to do more and overcome.