Ditching Google Ads: Criminal Attorney Joshua Baron’s Referral Practice Revolution (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 137)
In this compelling first part of a two-part series, host John Ray sits down with Joshua Baron, founding partner of SB Legal and author of The Business of Criminal Law and Criminal Defense Referrals. Josh shares his remarkable transformation from a high-volume, Google Ads-dependent practice to a thriving referral-based firm that prioritizes client relationships and sustainable growth.
This conversation reveals the hidden costs of digital marketing dependency and explores how professional service providers can build meaningful, profitable practices through authentic relationship-building rather than paid advertising. Josh’s journey from spending $35,000 a month on Google Ads to eliminating them entirely contains important lessons for any professional looking to create a more sustainable and fulfilling practice.
Whether you’re a lawyer, consultant, accountant, coach, or fractional executive, this episode offers practical advice about building authority, understanding what clients truly want, and creating referral systems that work naturally with your personality rather than against it.
The Price and Value Journey is presented by John Ray and produced by North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of the Business RadioX® podcast network.
Key Takeaways from this Episode
- Google Ads create “golden handcuffs.” They’re expensive, create cash flow problems for smaller firms, and become scary to turn off once you’re dependent on them
- Clients don’t want lawyers; they want relief. People hire professionals when stress and anxiety spike, not because they love having advisors
- Ask “why now?” to uncover real motivations. Understanding the trigger that made them call today (vs. six months ago) reveals what they’re truly buying
- You don’t need to ask for referrals. Other professionals are willing to refer work that they prefer not to handle. You’re doing them a favor by accepting it
- Match relationship-building to your personality. Find your “love language” for professional relationships (words, time, gifts, service) and stick with what energizes you
- Provide clients with a “draft” rather than posing open-ended questions. Reduce their cognitive load by sharing what most people in their situation want, then let them edit it
- Regular post-consultation reflection improves results. Professional services exist in “wicked learning environments” where deliberate reflection is key to improvement
Topics Discussed in this Episode
Joshua Baron
Joshua Baron is a criminal defense attorney and the founder of SB Legal, based in Utah. He graduated summa cum laude with a Bachelor of Arts in History from Cal Poly, Pomona at age 18, then served an LDS mission in Viña del Mar, Chile, where he became fluent in Spanish. In 2007, he earned his J.D. cum laude from Brigham Young University’s J. Reuben Clark Law School, serving as Executive Editor of the Journal of Public Law and Associate Editor of the Education Law Journal. After law school, Baron began his career as a civil litigator in Park City, representing developers and real estate companies. Seeking more trial experience, he joined the Salt Lake City Prosecutor’s Office in 2008, handling over 1,500 criminal cases per year and leading more than thirty jury trials.
In 2009, Baron co-founded Sharifi & Baron, PLLC, which later became SB Legal. He has since represented hundreds of clients in nearly every court in Utah, covering a wide range of criminal and immigration matters. Baron is licensed to practice before both federal and state courts in Utah. His practice areas include criminal defense—such as violent crimes, drug offenses, white-collar crimes, domestic violence, and sex crimes—and immigration law, including deportation defense and appeals. He has achieved not guilty verdicts and dismissals in serious criminal cases, including aggravated burglary, sexual assault, and drug distribution.
Baron is recognized for his professionalism, client-focused approach, and responsiveness. He has been selected as a Super Lawyer by Mountain States Super Lawyers from 2020 to 2025 and previously as a Rising Star. He has also been named a Top Lawyer by the Global Directory of Who’s Who and included in Utah Business Magazine’s Utah Legal Elite.
In addition to his legal practice, Baron is an author and educator, having written books such as Criminal Defense Referrals and The Business of Criminal Law, and taught criminal law and procedure as adjunct faculty at Ensign College.
About The Price and Value Journey Podcast
The Price and Value Journey is a show for expert-service professionals who want more than formulas and quick fixes. If you’re a solo or small-firm provider—consultant, coach, attorney, CPA, or fractional executive—you know the real work of building a practice goes far beyond pricing. It’s about finding clarity, showing up with confidence, and learning how to express the full value of what you do in ways that clients understand and appreciate.
Hosted by John Ray, business advisor and author of The Generosity Mindset, this podcast explores the deeper journey behind running a services business: how you think about your work, how you relate to clients, and how you sustain a business that’s not only profitable but deeply fulfilling. Yes, we talk pricing, but we also talk mindset, business development, trust, empathy, positioning, and all the intangible ingredients that make a practice thrive.
With solo episodes and conversations featuring thoughtful guests, The Price and Value Journey is a companion for professionals who are building something meaningful. Produced in partnership with North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®, the podcast is accessible on all major podcast platforms. The complete show archive is here.
John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey
John Ray is the host of The Price and Value Journey.
John owns Ray Business Advisors, a business advisory practice. John’s services include business coaching and advisory work, as well as advising solopreneurs and small professional services firms on their pricing. John is passionate about the power of pricing for business owners, as changing pricing is the fastest way to change the profitability of a business. His clients are professionals who are selling their expertise, such as attorneys, CPAs, accountants and bookkeepers, consultants, coaches, marketing professionals, and other professional services practitioners.
In his other business, John is a podcast show host, strategist, and the owner of North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®. John and his team work with B2B professionals to create and conduct their podcast using The Generosity Mindset® Method: building and deepening relationships in a non-salesy way that translates into revenue for their business.
John is also the host of North Fulton Business Radio. With over 870 shows and having featured over 1,300 guests, North Fulton Business Radio is the longest-running podcast in the North Fulton area, covering business in its region like no one else.
John’s book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices
John is the #1 national best-selling author of The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices.
If you are a professional services provider, your goal is to do transformative work for clients you love working with and get paid commensurate with the value you deliver to them. While negative mindsets can inhibit your growth, adopting a different mindset, The Generosity Mindset™, can replace those self-limiting beliefs. The Generosity Mindset enables you to diagnose and communicate the value you deliver to clients and, in turn, more effectively price to receive a portion of that value.
Whether you’re a consultant, coach, marketing or branding professional, business advisor, attorney, CPA, or work in virtually any other professional services discipline, your content and technical expertise are not proprietary. What’s unique, though, is your experience and how you synthesize and deliver your knowledge. What’s special is your demeanor or the way you deal with your best-fit clients. What’s invaluable is how you deliver outstanding value by guiding people through massive changes in their personal lives and in their businesses that bring them to a place they never thought possible.
Your combination of these elements is unique in your industry. There lies your value, but it’s not the value you see. It’s the value your best-fit customers see in you.
If pricing your value feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar to you, this book will teach you why putting a price on the value your clients perceive and identify serves both them and you, and you’ll learn the factors involved in getting your price right.
The book is available at all major physical and online book retailers worldwide. Follow this link for further details.
