Author and Business Coach Corinna Hagen

Intro: [00:00:05] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in St. Louis, Missouri. It’s time for St. Louis Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:00:18] Hello, everybody, and welcome back to St. Louis Business RadioX. This is Doc’s Discussions. You’re here with Dr. Phillip Hearn, and I’ve got a fantastic guest. So again, I get excited about all the guests. I love them all the same, right? It’s kind of like trying to pick a favorite child, but there are certain guests that when you get them involved, you know that you’re bringing a superstar to the table. So I’m here with a bestselling author, a business coach, a leader in branding and communication. This young woman has done quite a bit, and we actually have a little bit of bonding to do over one of the industries that we worked in together. Corinna Hagen is our guest today. Corinna, how are you?

Corinna Hagen : [00:00:56] I’m good, Phillip. Thank you for pronouncing my name right. Man, that was refreshing. Yes.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:01:02] I try to do like research. I love the phonetic of spelling. And I’m like, okay, let me not let me not butcher the name right out of the gate. Right.

Corinna Hagen : [00:01:08] That’s great.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:01:11] So happy to have you on. Docs Discussions. I always like to start off getting an opportunity for the listeners to understand more about your background. Where have you come from? So tell your listeners how we got to the Corinna of today.

Corinna Hagen : [00:01:25] Oh, that’s great. Yeah. So you already introduced me so people I can talk about books and all of that stuff, but how I got there, my background is not a straight line to where I am right now, although I would like to argue all paths led to where I am today. It’s never a straight line, is it? Yeah. So a way of background. I have studied international business and intercultural studies. What does that mean? Intercultural studies is a studies of other cultures, includes a lot of communication, language studies, all of it. At one point I spoke a few words of Arabic. I remember some. I don’t remember them all, but that was part of my my studies Spanish too. It’s a shame how much I forgot. But long story short, so that’s that’s my education background. And then right from there, I was launched into management consulting and what a ride that is. And the learning curve couldn’t be any more steep. It’s great. I started right away and actually initially I started in industries and services, so I worked with a range of different companies from, you know, automotive, like you’re talking BMW and and financial services and manufacturing, digital rights management companies, you name it. So, so a range of different industries. And then within a within two years, year and a half, two years, I was sent on an expat contract to the US and I started working within the Strategy and Innovation Group and doing startup scouting, scouting them for as acquisition targets for large organizations that we worked with developing go to market strategies, developing innovation projects or running innovation projects with corporate R&D departments, which is a ton of fun because you get to always be at the edge of innovation, always seeing the new stuff that’s coming out, coming up with some innovative use cases, creating the business case around it, right? And so, so to me, it was really exciting.

Corinna Hagen : [00:03:37] I would have never stopped doing what I did there because it was insane fun. But travel was not so much fun. And so I didn’t want to do that forever. And I started joining one of my clients and running their international or not running initially not running, joining the International Product Portfolio Group, doing international product rollouts, planning, go to market strategies. A little bit of what you have heard before, right? Go to market planning and then sales training. And then that segued me into becoming the head of sales enablement initially for the Americas and APAC. Again, also sales enablement is a lot of go to market planning, sales, training, marketing. So all that is meshed together there. And I’ve done that for also management consulting I’ve done for a good decade and another like 5 or 6 years of sales enablement. Then I’ve done enterprise transformation just for about a year now. That wasn’t too new for me. That’s something I’ve done in my management consulting years many, many times because a lot of these projects that involve strategy and innovation are transformational. So I’ve done that. And then in 2019 I have officially started my. My consulting and coaching practice and didn’t really kick it into gear until 2021. And here we are today.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:05:14] And here we are today.

Corinna Hagen : [00:05:18] That’s right.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:05:19] So with all of your background in not only transformation, sales, marketing, etcetera, you have that international flavor just for our listeners. I’m sure they can potentially pick up an accent. Where are you from?

Corinna Hagen : [00:05:33] Yes, there’s a slight accent.

Corinna Hagen : [00:05:35] It’s a German.

Corinna Hagen : [00:05:35] Yes. Yeah, it’s German.

Corinna Hagen : [00:05:39] Okay. Awesome.

Corinna Hagen : [00:05:40] Yeah.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:05:40] Yeah. So when did you come to the States? More full time? Because I know part of your background. You were working all over and traveling all over. So when did you make the state your home? Tell us. Take us through that process. How did that.

Corinna Hagen : [00:05:51] Look? Okay.

Corinna Hagen : [00:05:52] So I made the states my home in my heart. Maybe in 2000, 2002 when I first came. So I did an internship in college last year. Second. Yeah, yeah. The last semester or second last semester in college in LA. And then always wanted to come back. But it wasn’t until 2005, 2006, excuse me, when I was sent as an expat and then decided I’m going to prove myself here, I’m going to stay. And then I think it took until beginning of 2007 when I officially made the move and had a great consulting firm. I love them. They’re datacom. They’re they’re a boutique consulting firm within the telecoms industry telecoms and and and it and so they were sponsoring me they were they were great to me. We made an agreement that I would stay an additional two years. I stayed another seven. I just love working with them. And yeah, so that was my journey. This is 2000, 2007. Till till now the US is my permanent home.

Corinna Hagen : [00:07:02] Permanent home.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:07:02] Got it. Got it. But it started in 2002, so I wanted to kind of make sure that that was touched on. That’s important. That’s so I know one of our early bonding experiences actually is that we both worked in telecom and for the folks who have worked in telecom, we can say that it’s an interesting industry. Right? Maybe interesting is a good word. Take us through that journey and how that shaped who you became as a leader as as you push forward so many.

Corinna Hagen : [00:07:31] Question Oh, my goodness. Oh, I think it’s a setup. It’s a little bit of a setup.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:07:37] Hey, just try to ask good questions and get out of the way. That’s my only job here.

Corinna Hagen : [00:07:40] So sorry. Right. I mean.

Corinna Hagen : [00:07:43] It’s a great question. I think you and I had that that, that, you know, chat about the ins and outs of the telecoms and IT industry. Look, telecoms is is a fairly intimate circle. Like you run into those people over and over again like they work for they work for BT now and for orange later. And you know, you just see the same names over and over again. Yeah, the dynamics are interesting because telecoms and it couldn’t be any more different. And again, the consulting firm I worked with covered both. And I’ve worked I’ve worked for big name brands, big Fortune 500 companies in it. And you know, as a consultant. And same in telecoms. And the difference couldn’t be any bigger in terms of corporate culture and how innovation is approached. So how has that shaped me? I can say this I think I’ve learned a good deal about paradigms which led to the name of my company, by the way, Zara, Dame Zara Meaning? Meaning Rising Sun. Like something changing, like an epiphany and paradigm. A shift, right? So it’s about paradigm shifts and paradigms is really what I’ve learned. Have such a strong influence on how you lead.

Corinna Hagen : [00:09:11] Okay.

Corinna Hagen : [00:09:12] And how you how you are being led and what you believe in. For example, one thing early on that I was taught in consulting, I think many people share that same experience is a good consultant. Leads arrives before the client and leaves after the client. Right. Okay. So Client comes at 8 a.m. while you’re there at 7 a.m.. Right. Client leaves at ten. You leave at 11 or whatever. Or ten. Ten. Ten.

Corinna Hagen : [00:09:37] Right.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:09:38] Yeah. Make sure they clear out of the elevator first before you decide to leave. Right.

Corinna Hagen : [00:09:41] Right. That’s about it.

Corinna Hagen : [00:09:42] Right. Then you have to ask yourself, what’s the use of this? What is the. What is the client really want? We have had one corporate client who questioned a lot of the things that consultants did and really woke me up to really question those paradigms. But, you know, mostly what I’ve learned is that I had one really phenomenal leader who took over in, I think, 2008, 2009. She took over my group and she was a phenomenal leader because she broke all the paradigms and over delivered. Well, that’s ideally what you want, right? Promise. Overdeliver. And she did that in half the time. So. So there’s this book twice the work and half the time. And she is the living proof of that, I would say. She’ll come in at 7 a.m. She would leave at usually three, having all her stuff done right. People would criticize her for leaving too early. Like, what kind of signal does it send? I’m thinking it sends a great signal. It sends a signal that you should question what you’re working on. If in ten hours you can achieve the same things. What have you done?

Corinna Hagen : [00:11:00] Yeah. Yeah.

Corinna Hagen : [00:11:02] So talk about prioritization, setting boundaries, saying no to the right things and knowing what to say yes to. I mean, that woman really understood what it took to be successful, and then she focused on that. That’s it.

Corinna Hagen : [00:11:16] Yeah.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:11:16] The time in telecommunication almost focuses you on how to really prioritize time, right? And truly how to be more efficient. Because sometimes and we’ve had our our little war stories on the side, but some of those times the efficiency was the thing that that rang out where you’re going. Why are we not being more efficient? We’ve got all this technology, but yet we have to rush into the meeting for 9 a.m. meeting to physically be in the office. And I’ve got two cell phones, a, you know, hotspot, a laptop, a tablet, and yet I have to sit 12ft from you to be efficient. So yeah, I love the parallels of going, Hey, how do you create those paradigm shifts and not just do stuff based on the time? Right? I want people to the old Bill Gates saying I want people who are almost lazy or think may be Steve Jobs. I want people who are lazy because they’ll get it done faster.

Corinna Hagen : [00:12:12] Oh, yes.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:12:13] That idea of, hey, we can be much more efficient is what the biggest takeaway is. So. So yeah, no, no setup. I had to ask about the telecom days because we’ve had our war stories about it. So I thought that was important for the viewers to understand part of your background. So digging into what you’re doing now with Ceradyne and really your focus on Fractional, so everything now is kind of a buzzword when it comes to fractional. When you talk M&A space, when you talk expansion, consulting, everyone’s a fractional what does fractional mean to you? Because you’ve done it and you’ve done it successfully. So I think you bring a unique perspective to the concept of, Hey, we’re going to put in a fractional C-level and in your case a CMO.

Corinna Hagen : [00:12:55] That doesn’t even have to be.

Corinna Hagen : [00:12:56] C-level. I think sometimes people really like harp on that so much and they don’t realize when you when you work for a company that is a, you know, medium sized business. They may not be in need of like like don’t harp on that so much. Look at what the company actually is in need for. Right? So fractional. So so it’s fractional sea level. That’s what they call it. Right. And probably at a small organization, you’ll be at that level. If you work for a large organization, you may be at a director or VP level. Could be because you’re driving. Very fast change in a short amount of time. Typically when you’re in those positions or you fill a gap, but then again, to fill a gap, they usually don’t hire a fractional to just fill a gap for six months or nine months. They find somebody else in the organization to say, hey, you you be the representative for people to go to. That’s how it works. That’s the interim manager, right? Yeah. So you don’t need a fractional for that. Fractional typically are expected to deliver results in without being hired full time because either the company can’t afford it or doesn’t have the ability to justify a full time role or just needs the help right now. So there’s an urgency that drives this. And so instead of harping so much on the level that you’re at, I would focus more on the value you deliver. It will it will drive the respect you get and and the level you’re seeing at and the authority that you will have behind you. Right? Yeah.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:14:38] Yeah. No, I think that was explained well, just because, again, people hear buzzwords, right? So it’s it’s great to get those subject matter experts like you that can help people to understand. All right. When you hear this buzz word, here’s what you’re hearing versus kind of the reality sometimes, right? Because there’s usually this gap or this gulf that you’re really trying to go through. So I love it That that’s that’s perfect. Yeah. Yeah.

Corinna Hagen : [00:15:02] I want to add one more thing. Right?

Corinna Hagen : [00:15:03] So so when when people so if somebody’s listening to the show wants to enter into fractional CMO, CFO, what have you, right. You have to understand the after what comes after the fractional is just the specialty. What can you deliver? And if you’re interested in entering into that and you want to help multiple companies with your because in essence it’s it’s just changing the verbiage to say like, I am a consultant specializing in this area and I can lead in this area. That’s why it’s fractional CXO Right. Fill in the blanks. So what problem can you help solve?

Corinna Hagen : [00:15:45] Yeah, in a way you have.

Corinna Hagen : [00:15:46] To specialize well, and you have to understand what challenges a company wants to solve and how are you helping an executive to solve this, because that’s typically who you will be working with.

Corinna Hagen : [00:15:58] Now.

[00:15:58] That’s beautiful insight and that makes complete sense. I think it’s a little easier on the business card though, if it says fractional X, but now it’s easy. So. But no, that’s exactly it. You’re there to solve for. It’s the old math problems we all have had, I’m sure, a time or two in our lives. We’re all here to solve for X, right? So the daily grind of the challenges that a business may face or the opportunities that the business may use for growth, you’re really helping to solve for X as a fractional. Would that be a good way to think about it? Great equation. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. See, I paid attention to math class. I wasn’t always great when they start throwing letters, but I understood solving for x, so that was good. So I’m going to come back to Paradigm a bit more because I want to dig into that. But part of your moniker is a best selling author. Take us through the work, what you’ve written, the background of the work. I’ve got a chance to read some of it, so I’m biased, but I want to hear it from you as opposed to my viewers hearing it from me. So take us through how you came to becoming a best selling author.

Corinna Hagen : [00:16:58] Oh, yeah, there’s a load of question. I didn’t. How did I come to it? That’s probably interesting. How do I come to actually write a book? I wanted to write books, but I would have never done it as quick as I did and at the time that I did, because this is the first year I had invested in really building my business after founding it officially, right on paper, like registering LLC, all that, actually working on my business. And I got approached by this publishing house. And so what they, what they do is bookboon. Bookboon has this learning library and they work with big corporations, small and big, but, you know, name brand companies we all know, and they have these learning libraries, including those books that then become part of this whole experience for the the employee who can download the book and listen to the audio version or listen to, you know, I have some almost like podcasts they call them expert talks. They’re between ten minutes and an hour. And I like to keep things short. So I have tried to keep them within a ten minute frame because I believe executives are chronically short on time. Right, Right. And so so, yeah. So they approached me and asked if I could write a book on virtual work. And given my extensive experience as a remote worker I had back in 2008, decided I’m going full time remote at one point in my life, and by the end of 2009, I believe I worked completely, remotely Granted, you know, as a consultant, you travel and are always committed to doing whatever it takes to connect with people and being in the office.

Corinna Hagen : [00:18:47] When we have workshops, traveling to the client, you know, for meetings. So all that aside, but I was working and doing the chunk of my delivery work, so to speak, remotely. So I have extensive experience in it. I have led global teams all from behind the screen. Yeah, minus some travel. And so it brings some additional challenges. And, and so, yeah, they approached me on writing these books and I thought, this is this is great. I have a lot to say about this. Now. My intention right from the beginning was to develop leaders with solid leadership skills. And one of the things that stood out early on is that the leaders that feel and again, like if your audience hears this and somebody feels offended, you know, please don’t feel offended, challenge me on it, prove me wrong. But I dare say that the leaders that feel most challenged with remote work. And that most inclined to micromanage or call for a return to office. Everybody has to the leaders that are least equipped with the right tools to lead with the fundamentals. Okay. If you know how to lead well, you can lead well in any environment.

Corinna Hagen : [00:20:03] Now, I will say this. It is more strenuous to have to take some extra steps and be more intentional when you lead remotely. The same goes for employees. They have to be more intentional in how they show up. You can’t you can’t rely on people. Just seeing you in the office is less serendipity there. Right. So you have to be very intentional about how you communicate, how you show up even on a zoom call. Right. And and also on the types of tools you’re using to communicate and to collaborate. And so so I welcome this opportunity to write a book about virtual leadership. And so the first book is called High Performance Virtual Work How Leaders Create Effective Virtual Workplaces. And it’s a hybrid between how You Lead well and breaking some of the really I’m aiming for the paradigms to be broken about what it takes to be remote. Um, and the second book then followed last year. Virtual Leadership Skills. What kind of skills do you actually need to lead? Well, virtually. And communication is the number one, which is also my number one focus on all the leadership development I do, and that’s based on the learning that I had, is that communication is the enabler of them all. You can be the greatest problem solver in the world. If you cannot communicate your ideas effectively, you slash your chances of success. That’s it.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:21:35] I love it. I love it. It’s fun when you talk to people, number one, that that invite discourse. Right? So as you mentioned, hey, if somebody can prove me wrong, let’s have the conversation. So that’s always a fun part to good banter. You learn a ton through good banter and my personal experiences, but I think that’s important, too, because I was going to ask you that question, those characteristics of what makes a good leader, let alone someone that is leading virtually because again, going through the things that we’ve recently gone through, now a pandemic, folks having to work and break some of those paradigm norms. Right. And making sure that they can work anywhere in the world honestly and fully and really having to have a strong enough leadership source. That’s sometimes a missing component because, again, most leaders aren’t taught the methods to continue to grow as a leader. It’s normally, hey, the leader is in one set of suites. We give our middle management and our our frontline worker the training and the consistent training. But that opportunity for the leader to grow sometimes can get lost in the shuffle. So two fantastic books. We’re going to also make sure that after after this interview, you all have an opportunity to go directly to those links. So we’re going to make sure that folks can take a look at that book, because I think there’s a ton of really good information. I’ve got a chance to read the one of the books, the High Performance Virtual Workbook. So I’ve been digging into that myself. So I got notes and I can call the author so I’m in good shape. So that’s huge. That’s great. So let’s double back to Paradigm for a bit. So you talk about really creating those those shifts in business and how business is done. What types of clients do you and your team like to work with? I know you’re not pinned into one specific set based on your experience and your team’s experience and successes. What is that ideal client look like?

Corinna Hagen : [00:23:36] So are you talking on the business side? Are you talking individual leaders?

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:23:41] Who do you like? Who do you and your team like to work with in your organization? I’m going to I’m opening it up to your thoughts.

Corinna Hagen : [00:23:47] So I would say generally it’s more characteristics. So I work with emerging leaders in typically, um, yeah, mid to large sized corporations. So these are people who have high upward ambition. And on the business side, I work predominantly with startup founders and small business leaders. Talking like a million in revenue, wanting to grow right sometimes under. But that’s that’s typical for the for the small business established small business leader who wants to grow. And then on the startup side that’s a different whole different ballgame. All of these all these three groups have one thing in common. It’s realizing that in Marshall and I’m quoting Marshall Goldsmith right now, there’s a book that he wrote, What Got You Here Won’t Get You There. You have to realize that in order to take it to that next level, you might have gotten all the ideas, all the talent, all the experience. There are things you haven’t seen yet. You don’t know what you don’t know. Yeah. And interestingly, I watched a short like a snippet from a Ted talk from a doctor. Actually, believe it or not, he got a coach and he created a very practical experience of what that’s like. He said, Look, I cannot justify lack of growth if I don’t seek help from outside. And he said, I was always wondering why golfers, tennis players. Well, they all get coaches at all levels. Even the star players still have coaches to this day. Like, how is this? And so he said, let me try it out.

Corinna Hagen : [00:25:32] And he said it was so uncomfortable. So he didn’t he wasn’t hiding the fact that coaching is at times uncomfortable. But this coach stood in the operating room with him and observed what he did, you know, when he like lifted his arm and he goes, well, when you do that, like you really lose your stability. And so he really improved his technique and and he showed results. So so of course, like in the operating room, you don’t want things to go wrong. Yeah, but they do. And so he could reduce that number significantly through that coaching so he could show the results. But he said it was it was uncomfortable, but you have to be willing to go there. Right? So having that kind of I’m sorry it’s such a loaded word, but having that mindset is important. Yeah. If you don’t go in there with that mindset that there’s only gain from here, then there’s little I can do for you or anybody for that matter. And and I think I want to say one more thing. Information isn’t transformation and coaching is not teaching. It has teachable components. And I will give my clients anything they they ask me for as long as I have it, I will give it. But teaching won’t help them much. If it did, they could just take any other class, go to any other workshop, read my book and be transformed. Information isn’t transformation, but coaching will help you to get that transformation.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:26:57] I think that’s that’s a great way to look at it because and I just had this conversation with some, some business colleagues of mine in that coaching, consulting and advising are three completely different things. And what’s funny about that is we hear again kind of the buzzword vibes. We hear that so much in interchange, so much between each other and they’re not the same thing. So I’m glad you said it that way because I think that gives our listeners an opportunity to really understand coaching. Here’s the why. It’s uncomfortable, right? Because you still have to do the work at the end of it, right? It’s it’s like the best coaches in sports and managers and baseball, like they’re good coaches because they, they can’t they’re not going out on the field and trying to hit the 95 mile an hour fastball. They are going and coaching you on what you have to look for when you hit the 95 mile an hour fastball. But you still have to go out and do it. I think that’s a great way to look at it.

Corinna Hagen : [00:27:58] Yeah, Yeah.

Corinna Hagen : [00:27:58] It’s tough to dribble, right? And it’s good that you make that distinction, too, for another reason because you asked me who my clients are. And so if I work with a if I work with a company, for example, a fractional CMO services, I typically that’s consulting, pure consulting hardly ever is there any coaching in it. I may because I of course, I’m a coach. I know coaching methodology. If it suits me and I see a great fit, I may have a coachable moment. I may use that methodology to drive some awareness and allow the person to come to a realization that they need to have. But it’s typically consulting and people who work with me, they need to be aware of what they’re in for. Do you want me to do the song and dance? Do the work for you, right? Teach you how to do it? Or would you like to experience personal growth and transformation? That’s very different.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:28:52] Yeah. Yeah. And and your clients have to come in with a different mindset based on what they’re requiring of you. So think it’s a two way street, right? I talk a lot about being a willing or unwilling participant, right? So if you’re a willing participant in this, this is a different mindset than, you know, bucket B, because you have to be either willing to do it or if you’re unwilling, it’s not going to be a good fit. So I think that’s extremely key. That’s huge. So here’s always a fun question to understand what goes on almost behind the scenes. You have a ton of passion, You bring a ton of of expert capabilities and skill sets. What are the aspects of what you do day in and day out that you enjoy the most?

Corinna Hagen : [00:29:45] Mhm.

Corinna Hagen : [00:29:47] That’s interesting. It’s almost as if it has not too much to do with what I do in a coaching session. I mean, it’s incredibly fulfilling, right? But the moments that I look for that are that I that I thrive off of or like or live off of are the moments when people tell me that something hit them and they actually see the transformation. Right. When you can see that. I’ll tell you, that doesn’t happen every day. Because you might have a six month coaching agreement. And it’s not until four months in when actually something happens. Right. That’s not every coaching session that these things happen. There are some aha moments, but when the real light bulb I mean, you and I know what we are talking about when the real light bulb goes off and the real change happens, those are just, you know, the moments. I love working on my business. I don’t want to say I like being busy, but it’s almost like the business is my my hobby because it’s my passion. I like to think through ways how I can make it better. And maybe part of this was fueled through so many years of management consulting where I’ve worked in strategy and innovation. So you’re always thinking at like, what’s the next thing? How will this influence us, you know, years forward? And I do this for myself and for my clients where I go, okay, so if I work with an organization and they’re headed a certain way and and I have an idea or I see trends going on, I mean, the market is moving at such an interesting rate right now. Then my mind gets spinning and I love creating new things. I love developing strategies and really seeing where that lands us and playing those scenarios through and challenging myself, right, my own assumptions and other people’s assumptions. So I think this is probably what I’m most passionate about.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:31:37] Yeah, I can appreciate, I think out of everything you just said, the, the Aha. For me if you will. Is that. Not every session is going to bring that. Aha. So what that tells me is you really have to enjoy a lot of times the journey because you’re not going to get the home run or even the Grand Slam every single time. It’s a lot of singles, it’s a lot of doubles. There’s building upon each other to where, like you said, it might be 3 to 4 months in out of a six month agreement. And there’s the Aha. So now we’re working in a different head space moving forward through months four through six. So I think that’s an important piece because I know we have a society that is instant gratification in a lot of cases. So being either a person who is coaching or a person that’s receiving coaching, you have to kind of be okay with I got to enjoy the journey. The journey is not always going to be, like you said at the very beginning. It’s not always a straight line. There’s some curves, there’s some ups, downs, lefts, rights. So being okay with what that that end journey turns out to be, I think is extremely important. So that was my Aha. I love it. That’s awesome.

Corinna Hagen : [00:32:45] I love this. You know, there’s something else in there because you also told me that that you’re getting your coaching certification there and so yeah, yeah. So, so we’re speaking the same language there. Again, to the distinction between consulting and coaching. Now in consulting, you can lean back and say, No, I gave you a six month deadline to deliver what I what I ordered.

Corinna Hagen : [00:33:04] Right, Right.

Corinna Hagen : [00:33:05] And coach, you, you can’t do that. You take an active part. And the the beginning question I always ask is how much time are you willing to invest? What sacrifices are you willing to make? Because you have to make some sacrifices. Some things will you have to say goodbye to you, do them differently than you did them before? I won’t force your hand, but like, if you’re not willing to do anything different, why are we here? Right? And then how much time are you dedicating between two coaching sessions? Because that’s where the where the forward movement actually happens. And so for us to sit in a session, you know, like to your point, like what you know, what drives that excitement? Well, the excitement is usually not each single session. Something will happen. It’s that I know there will be a reward if we stick to the process. It’s incredibly rewarding when it’s happening, but you have to develop a discipline and a commitment to sticking with that discipline and saying, okay, I’ll go to the coaching sessions. Each time we work something out, I’ll come to an agreement of what I will do with this insight and I’ll carry it forward and I keep carrying it forward. And then we see the results, right? But so the short term gratification that you’re talking about and and also being almost passive, like expecting that, you know, you put some money on the table, you show up once and something is happening. It’s very, very passive engagement. Right. To the sports analogy, I love that you gave that sports analogy. You still have to do the dribble. Yeah, the boring dribble every day, 400 times. 1000 times. Just dribble.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:34:42] Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s the repetition of it. So that’s a part of the journey too, right? Major League Baseball players don’t just walk in every day and go, okay, I’m now I’m ready to hit for my 4 to 5 at bats. They’re taking hours of batting practice. They’re doing their fielding work. They’re doing all of that prep work where it’s a daily regimen almost. So I think that piece about the in-between calls is really where the secret sauce is made in terms of the coaching. So that’s huge. That’s absolutely huge. So a little more of a fun question to kind of close this out. You’re a person that sounds like they’re on the go. They’re always thinking about the next thing they’re working with, the next client, they’re trying to get the clients moving forward. They’re looking ahead. What do you do to rest and recharge? And it’s always interesting to understand what leaders are doing when people really don’t see them, right? So they they see you. They can go to LinkedIn and we’ll get all the the information where they can they can find you and follow up with you. But what do you do when you’re like, okay, I got to get away from work. I love work. It’s a passion. But how do you rest and recharge? What does that look like for you?

Corinna Hagen : [00:35:44] Yeah, yeah, a mix.

Corinna Hagen : [00:35:46] So I’m I am very active and depending on what my demand for rest calls for, sometimes rest looks like I’m doing a really hard, strenuous workout, and that’s just what I need in order to blow off steam, perhaps, right? Or I go hiking. I’m an outdoor person. I just love spending lots of time outdoors, especially when the weather is is fitting. And so hiking. Hiking is a great way to spend lots of time outdoors and get a workout in or and this is more recent. So so in the past I would you know I would stuff even my my personal life with a lot of things to do. I’ve stopped doing that. I love reading. But sometimes I will sit and contemplate and I’ve learned this by watching a video that really had left a deep imprint on me. And it’s an interview. It’s years old. You can watch it. It’s on YouTube. It’s like a five minute video, like Biz’s, the new Stupid or whatever they call it. It talks about. Well, it’s an interview with Warren Buffett and Bill Gates on how they manage time and how they prioritize. Yeah. Bill Gates talks about contemplation being so important. And it really caught my attention. I’m thinking, why is he talking about contemplation? You should have a strategy, a network, be with people, figure things out, learn things. Yeah, And there’s a time for this. But what do you do after you have done all the learning, all the doing? You have to let things sit a little bit for creative thought to do something valuable, right? Where where you know, the dots can connect in your brain because yeah, you’re sitting with yourself. Contemplation is incredibly important. So I’m focusing much more on doing that not just for results, but because it also puts my mind at rest. Otherwise, I have tons of things where I go, I had all these ideas. I don’t even know what to do with them and when. Right. And then you set time aside in your calendar and you pack it full. And I’ve learned that life is better with margin. And so sometimes not doing something deliberately is really good.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:37:56] So you just made a t shirt? Think life is better with margin like that? Okay, I’m going to write that one down. I’m going to keep that one for myself. That’s a good one. I like it. But I do love that because I think the older we become, we start to figure out what works for us, Right? So I think that’s that’s always ask every one of my guests that question because I’ve gotten all different answers, right? I’ve got folks who go to the theater. I’ve got folks who read a ton. I’ve got folks who are like, when I’m done reading for a minute, I need to take a take a mental break. And like you said, go be active, go for a walk. So it’s always interesting to understand how leaders stay as upbeat and as and as passionate about their day to day on their off time. I think that’s just as important as the work that you do with your clients, with coaching, working as a best selling author and a brand leader overall. So that’s huge. So last question before we close it out, and I’ve so enjoyed the conversation as I knew that we would, how do our listeners connect and stay in contact with you? What are the best methods to reach out? Keep in touch. How does that work?

Corinna Hagen : [00:39:02] Sure. Yeah. I think the best.

Corinna Hagen : [00:39:03] Way to reach out to me is connect with me on LinkedIn. And if you want to if you want to email me personally, connect with me on LinkedIn, I’ll send you my email. Absolutely possible. But yeah, if you want to stay connected, that’s I think, a great way to reach out. If you want a soft connect and you don’t want to talk to me directly and you just want to follow, you can also do that. I publish a monthly newsletter where I talk about leadership, leadership, communication, leadership, transformation, building leadership skills. And so it’s light enough, right? Because there’s only once a month that it shouldn’t overwhelm. And I think that’s a that’s a great way to connect.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:39:39] Awesome. And we’ll make sure to share your your LinkedIn link with our viewers after this on our website and everything else. So that’ll be perfect. So Karina Hagen, it has been a absolute pleasure to chat with you, to hear just about all the successes, really appreciate the time and good luck with your upcoming endeavors.

Corinna Hagen : [00:40:00] Thank you so much for having me. This was fun.

Dr. Phillip Hearn: [00:40:03] Absolutely. We’ll have to do it again soon. So. Well, it’s been another great episode here on dots discussions. We are so glad again to have our guest, Karina Hagen, join us today for Dr. Philip Hearn and the full Saint Louis Business RadioX team. We’ll see you again next time. Take care.