SEO vs AIO: Why Your Content Isn’t Hitting and the New Truths About Digital Visibility

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios, it’s time for Women in Motion. Brought to you by WBEC-West to join Forces Succeed Together. Now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here with Renita Manley. Another episode of Women in Motion. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, WEBEC-West. Without them, we couldn’t be sharing these important conversations. And today’s show is especially interesting for folks who have a business or are involved in business, because we’re going to be talking about search engine optimization in the age of artificial intelligence. Renita, what a show you’ve put together today. This is going to be a good one.

Renita Manley: Thanks, Lee. Thanks, Lee. It’s something that I’ve been thinking about working, so I’ll just jump right into it. In today’s episode, it is all about digital visibility, and our guests are going to be breaking down why your content might not be hitting like you’re used to. So what’s changed behind the scenes and new tips on how to get seen? They’ll cover what still works, what’s not working as much as you’re used to, and what everybody what everybody needs to know about SEO, AIO, and suppressed algorithms.

Lee Kantor: All right, so today on the show we have Heather Schallert with Digital Nova and Mindy Weinstein with Market Mineshift. Welcome.

Mindy Weinstein: Yeah. Thank you.

Heather Schallert: Thank you. Excited to be here.

Lee Kantor: Renee? Will you have a kick off question to get this conversation started?

Renita Manley: I do, I want to I want to know why does it seem like nobody’s content is being seen anymore? No matter how much SEO you’re using is just not being seen. What’s going on?

Mindy Weinstein: I can start with.

Mindy Weinstein: Yeah. Heather. Go ahead.

Heather Schallert: Oh. Go ahead. Mindy. You’re good.

Mindy Weinstein: I was going to say it’s interesting because I have had a lot of these conversations with clients, too. Even one today, because that is a pain point for people. And so the game has changed. So what’s happening now is people are going to basically all the different eyes to research before they even get to your website, or even start to go on a search engine to look for something. In the past, our behavior was we need a product, we need a service. We’re going to go to Google. I mean, we say Google it. We’re going to Google it, but not so much anymore. And so now we have to look at the AI engines and how can we show up in those, which I know is what today is all about. But Heather, I’ll kick it to you because I’m sure you’re going to have some great things.

Heather Schallert: Yeah, I agree with that. Uh, it’s really AI agents are just intercepting audience attention before they click now, and they’re also participating in the discussion from an omnichannel perspective. So people will go using AI agents to do their initial research. They’ll bounce on over to Google. They’ll enter via a paid ad, look at a few things that go back, do more research on AI. And so it’s becoming a very complex partner in the way that you scope out your pain points and figure out the solutions you need for your business. And we really need to, you know, make sure as marketers that we are talking and involving a genetic AI as much as we can in our client solution sets, and presenting it in a way where it really resonates and becomes top of mind.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a behavior shift that’s actually you can see kind of numbers associated with it because it feels that way from a, you know, a business owner who sees traffic where you’re not getting as much traffic or I’m not or people in general aren’t getting as much traffic from the usual suspects that they were getting previously. Has the behavior changed to the amount where people are going on to AI to answer questions, rather than going on Google to look for websites that might have the answers.

Heather Schallert: Definitely. We’ve seen anywhere between a 30 to 34% decline, and most of it’s caused by Google’s own AI engine. And that’s the AI generated answers, and they’re just appearing above the search results now. Um, so, you know, whereas you used to be really top of mind organically, if you’re on the first page of Google Now, you’re really only top of mind organically if you’re in the first four results, because the first top three are those generative AI results. Uh, if you’re in an actual LLM agent too, and not using Google directly or synergistically, uh, you know, you’re kind of bypassing Google altogether. And so you need to really dig into, um, you know, how people are searching nowadays as well as their overall attention spans. I mean, in March in 2024, to put it in perspective, only had a 2.6% decline in March of 2025. People are seeing between 30 to 34%.

Renita Manley: That’s a lot. Yeah, I wonder that. Mindy, that’s so much what I was going to ask. Sorry. Seems like I might have cut you off just right now. But what is what’s what’s the value now in SEO? Or is when I think about the first three results, they’re always paid sponsored results. So what? Where is this? How is this blending together? The the page sponsored results. Seo and then, um, I know, but before you answer that, just please finish what you’re about to say.

Mindy Weinstein: Oh my goodness. But it actually aligns with what you just asked me. So it’s a twofer. I’ll give you two for this one. Now, I was just going to tack on what Heather was saying, because a lot of the stats that we’re seeing, like in terms of let’s talk about Google specifically, is the Google search page. I mean, 70% of people aren’t going past the top third of the page, which goes to what Heather was saying with the AIO or the AI overviews is what Google is calling it. And then with what you’re asking, Renita, with the paid search. And so what has really changed, and the conversations I’m now having with clients is one, I mean, it’s no longer like, oh, we got to be in the top page of Google or the top ten of a particular keyword. It’s you got to at least be in the top three. Otherwise, no one’s going to really look down and scroll and see you. But even more so than that, and this is I’m going to say something I know that’s probably driving me nuts is like, well, what if I do show up in the AI overview? But then Google gave my answer and then no one’s going to go to my site, because that’s been an issue too.

Mindy Weinstein: And so to your point, what we’re doing and really looking at it is that it’s frustrating. It’s changed. But things do change, especially in our world. I feel like it changes all the time is that we focus on like, okay, well, how do we get into the top position for the ads that we’re running? So we want to be in the top three for the the keywords that we’re bidding on. How do we get in the top three organically? And then how do we snag that position where we’re a source in the AI overview? So you’re stacking all these different things, but I know we’re going to get into a little bit more like, how do you show up and all of that. But I do want to at least give some reassurance is that if you’ve already been doing SEO and optimizing and following all the right things, you’re not starting from scratch. So don’t think you’re starting from scratch with like, now I’ve got to do something completely different. It’s just you’re going to have to tweak some of the things you are doing, just like minor changes. So just to give some hope right away. So listeners aren’t like, I’m done, I’m out. They know just stick around.

Lee Kantor: So content is still important. Creating original content is not going away just because the answers are being given to the user in a slightly different manner.

Heather Schallert: That’s correct. I’d say it’s probably more important than ever. Not only that, you’re creating content on your own website, but then you’re spreading your content throughout any kind of viable website and sourcing. In addition to that, it’s really how you create content now and how you position it for AI agents. Um, it’s interesting to me. I completely agree with you. I don’t think it’s taking away from SEO. I think AIO really piggybacks on traditional SEO. You still need crawl pages, you still need data. You still need a ton of links. Um, but I platforms rely on really structured executable content with clear semantics and source attribution. That’s where it changes a little bit and where AI optimization really steps in. So it’s not so much about keyword density as it used to be. Now it’s more about being machine usable. Uh, the way that I agents parse and look at data is different than traditional Googlebot. And so we really need to make sure that we’re positioning your brand as a subject matter expert. And that spans all of your marketing channels. That’s, you know, uh, having the integrations between your paid search and your SEO, SEO and your AI optimization is really front and standard now in the way that you’re going to register with those agents at the end of the day.

Mindy Weinstein: Yeah, no. And I, I love that because here’s the thing with it too. The question about content is that we so you have to understand to like think about I, I was like, you know because we call them I bot. So think of them in your head as little robots. So there’s all these little robots out there getting all this information. And so they’re getting your information to you. So you want to be able to control some of that narrative, which means you really got to be like mindful of the content you’re creating. And as Heather just mentioned, it’s the way you structure it. So for me, I feel like with AI, AI optimization, it’s very content driven and it’s actually very PR driven, which goes to what Heather was saying. You have to have your content other places, because if you stop and look at some of the sources that are cited in I search results, a lot of times they are like news publications or these other things. And so you have to show up in multiple places. But if you are able to understand who you’re trying to target your customer, you know what questions they’re asking. And you set up your content in a way like conversational. You have your question, you answer it. You don’t do the old school SEO, or you’re going to answer it in like 3000 words, when you could have really said it and just, you know, a paragraph. And so it’s a lot of that is what we’re looking at, but it’s still very much content driven because that’s what the AI bots are going out there to get. They need content.

Renita Manley: Pretty cool. So I think we we did kind of jump right into this. So if there is any VB or small business owner out there listening, can you kind of break down the difference between SEO and AIO and how each of them are working differently.

Mindy Weinstein: Yeah. So I can start with that. Um, so with SEO, I mean, just in basic terms, I mean, you’re optimizing for search engines, you know, so you’re thinking of Google and being and there’s and there are other ones too, besides besides Google. I mean, there’s a lot out there, but you’re optimizing it. So you show up in those traditional search results for IO, which it does have a lot of different acronyms. So we’re using IO, which is artificial intelligence optimization, which actually can be even more encompassing because a lot of times it even encompasses like how you go about doing your tasks in marketing to or in our world. There’s also geo. So if you hear geo, someone say that they’re not talking about location, they’re talking about generative engine optimization. So just understand that the the big difference between, um, between them is you still are creating content. But as Heather alluded, there’s something that it does. It’s going to sound very technical, but it’s actually not that hard. But there’s markup that you do when you’re code for, like if you have an article you put on your page or on your website or in the back end, you’re like being very particular on like marking what the title is, marking that it is an article marking who the author is.

Mindy Weinstein: And so what that does is that just helps those AI bots even more understand what’s on your page. And that’s been important for SEO too. But the other thing that’s a little bit different for IO, and I think Heather even mentioned this too, is you have to be very intentional to on your sources you’re citing, you need to be authoritative. You also need to be more concise in terms of do address. Either the phrase someone might search on either one. So if it’s a prompt on ChatGPT, let’s say, and then you would need to have a very concise and direct answer. So it could be bullet points, it could be a little it could be a little paragraph. But you have to get to the point. So think of it opposite. If you were in school doing a research paper where you’re like building it up, you know, getting to your main point, your main point goes to the top now. So that’s just a little bit. But there is so much crossover, which I know I’m sure Heather has a lot to. There’s just there’s a lot.

Heather Schallert: Definitely. And I think you you need to have a really profound SEO strategy to do well in Chennai. Results. Uh, and just as you were talking about Mindy, it’s really that schema markup, that structured data markup. And that’s simply because the way LLM engines read things, they don’t prefer HTML as a markup source. Um, they can read what’s called a Json-ld language in two x to ten x. The amount of time, um, from a crawl budget perspective is they can traditional HTML or markup. So what that really means is, you know, you need to look at the different AI engines that your audiences are using to different audiences, different B2B markets in particular really rely on ChatGPT versus like cloud. Um, and those platforms citations, they prefer different areas to. So for instance, ChatGPT really relies heavily on sources that are similar to like Wikipedia, not Wikipedia specifically, but really sources that define things that really like lean into. This is what this is. This is what it does for you. Here’s the outcome. Whereas perplexity and things like that really lean into like Reddit and really modern time sourcing, like crowdsourcing, so to speak. Um, Google over reviews also really site and lean into YouTube, LinkedIn and Quora. So it’s kind of like where is your audience? Where do they want to be found, and where do their ideal demographics stand and what tools are they using? And then how do you link that all together and speak to the engines in a way that’s really profoundly easy for them to understand. It’s like making a cliff note version of all of your customer information and putting it forth quickly.

Lee Kantor: Mindy.

Mindy Weinstein: I love the cliff note part. Just to add on that too. Um, because I’m actually a 100% agreement because, I mean, that’s. Yeah. Right on. But I wanted to just say to that as you’re thinking about content, because a lot of, you know, what we’re talking about is text, you know, like written or typed content, but you want to have different formats because one, I mean, we know that users and learners, we we learn in different ways. Some of us love videos, some of us love more visuals, but some of the different platforms that are out there prefer different ones. Like, Claude really likes images, so you want to make sure that if you’re putting content out there on your website, like have a nice image that goes with it, maybe it’s a nice graphic that explains the concept that you’re trying to discuss on that blog, and then also do videos, because we know perplexity really leans into videos too. And so I mean with everything Heather saying with the, the sources and what they prefer 100%. And then just think about how can you take something you’ve already created. So if it’s an article landing page to spin it into. Now a great video and also great graphic because that’s just going to help you too.

Lee Kantor: And then how do you how do you put this on the page. Like what is your website now becoming. It sounds like it has to be so much more robust than maybe it had to be before. I.

Heather Schallert: I don’t think it’s necessarily more robust. I think you just in the actual code itself, you are defining everything to the LMS. Um, and so in addition to just writing really good content and now making sure that it is in, in LMS format that LMS really like. So those questions, those answers, those how to step one through five, um, you know, very concise questions and answers that uh, that you can see diversified through multiple platforms. The next step to that is just making sure that you’re writing the correct code on your website, and putting that in the header of your website for every single page. Um, you write it differently and you optimize it differently depending on the engines that you’re trying to speak to, and you track it differently. So that’s where you kind of need, you know, an SEO partner to help break the house down to, to do that. But it’s not that difficult at all. Um, and I think the main takeaway is really in addition to putting that special code on your site and really talking to your audience as well as you can, it’s that diversification, like Mindy was saying. So you wanted to diversify your presence across all platforms, and you want to diversify your content across all content pieces and then really lean into what works, because you’ll see that you’ll start generating AI results with a certain platform a lot more. You’ll resonate with ChatGPT or perplexity more, um, it really lean into what you do. Well, after you’ve realized, you know what the perfect platform is for your audience.

Mindy Weinstein: Yeah.

Renita Manley: And just so, like, uh. Oh. I’m sorry. Me.

Mindy Weinstein: Sorry. No. Go. Go ahead.

Renita Manley: Okay. Because I have, like, a thousand questions going through my head. So, Heather, while you were talking, I was thinking, so should I be building out a frequently asked questions portion on my website? Um, but I don’t know if I understood what you were saying. And then. And then when you said build your content across various platforms, it made me go on to like, um, my follow up question, which was going to be about LinkedIn. I know a lot of our small business owners and VBS are on LinkedIn, and I know for sure if they’re listening to this, they’re like, how can I get more people to see my content on LinkedIn? But then I just read something that said, LinkedIn is about to shift their algorithms so that we now see old content first. I’m all over the place. I’m sorry. Let’s go.

Mindy Weinstein: I mean, I can I can take some of those questions and then, Heather, if you want to take it from there. Um, but I’ll answer your FAQ question. So with that, the way that we handle that is instead of having like a dedicated FAQ section of your website, we prefer that if it’s a landing page. So let’s say it’s a service page. You have your service oriented company. Or if you sell products on that particular product page or the service page to have frequently asked questions there. And that actually is really, really important. That is one of the things that we do when we’re going through our client’s websites and setting it up. Even better for I is we do the frequently asked questions. That’s one of the biggest things. But I also wanted to just add to like when we’re talking about, you know, the code and the back end, I know that can get really overwhelming. But if you’re using, let’s say so, it’s a CMS, a content management system. So if you’re using one of those and it’s WordPress or Wix is another common one, or Shopify. A lot of them have built in features where you can add that code very easily.

Mindy Weinstein: But to Heather’s point, you still always should have a professional like just kind of help you at least get going. But it doesn’t have to be as scary or overwhelming. I actually feel like with this approach now with what we’re talking about with AI, to me it’s a little I know it’s going to sound really weird. It’s it’s easier because now in the past with SEO, you’re like trying to come up with all these different topics to put on your website because you got this keyword and that keyword and oh my gosh, how many times can I possibly talk about, you know, fill in the blank, right? Well, at least with this approach, it’s like, okay, I’m going to hunker down on this particular topic because this is what my business is about. I’m going to write a really great article that shows my expertise, that gives that answer. But then I’m also going to take this topic and I’m going to make this video about it. So to me it’s better because now I’m not trying to think of all these different things, um, that I have to to write about. Because after a while you run out of ideas sometimes.

Heather Schallert: Totally. I agree with that. And it’s it’s more than just FAQs. There’s about 19 different segments and different types of content that you can put on a single piece of content. So FAQs at the bottom of a resource is always great. Um, how you get those FAQs, just go look at what people are googling. Really. Um, those that’s what Google’s pulling it in, because that’s what people are asking. Uh, in terms of, you know, any kind of product and service, the natural inclination is to just semantically go through what your brain would go through, because that’s what the LLM agents are thinking. They’re thinking, I’m solving this problem for the person that’s utilizing my service. When I give them the answer, what is the next relevant question that they’re probably going to ask? Answer that in your content. So it’s probably is how does this work for you? Okay I’m going to get it. How do you onboard it. How do you set this up? What’s the best way to X, y, z? And whether that’s a bullet point list or one, two, three or a diagram or a video, just think naturally what your client would want to see to have all their questions answered. That’s what llms want to. And then you just put really good markup on it.

Lee Kantor: Now, when it comes to some of the like, you mentioned the trickier things, or at least it feels intimidating from a layperson. I mean, you guys deal with this all the time, so this seems second nature to you, but can you lean on AI to help you in this area? Can you say, hey, I, uh can you, you know, go through my website and tell me what would I should what more content should I put on here so that it makes me more visible in the world of AI? Or can you tell me what types of markups or codes I should be doing in the back end in order for you to, you know, make my site more visible?

Mindy Weinstein: That’s a good question. Um, and I can tell you. Oh, I hate this answer, even though I’m going to tell you it anyway. It depends what you’re doing. So if you’re trying to use it to get that code, which is the markup code we’re talking about, um, I’m not sure whether your experience, but our experience is using, let’s say, ChatGPT for that or even Gemini. It’s a lot of times not accurate. So it just it doesn’t do it correctly. So I wouldn’t use it for that. What you can use the different AI platforms for. Let’s say that you wanted some help because of all the things we’re talking about like okay, well what what do I need to include on my website that’s not there? That’s a great topic. I mean, you can use it for that and even give it some competitors to look at, to put you down the right path and even help you create an outline of something you might put on your site. But I would still, at the end of the day, recommend, like writing it yourself, doing the video yourself. Um, well, I mean, there are some cool video programs though. That’s a whole side note, so I’m not going to go off on that right the second, but I would just be careful on the the schema or the code part we’re talking about, because that doesn’t always work the best.

Lee Kantor: So what would you do to recommend for the biz out there listening to kind of get a sense of where they’re at like to. Is there a way to audit a website or a way to kind of know what needs what work needs to be done? Like, where should I be spending more of my time when it comes to content creation? Because creating content, you know, that can be a rabbit hole just unto itself. Like all of a sudden now all I’m doing is creating content. I’m not, you know, doing my work and selling things. I it seems like it never ends.

Heather Schallert: I think it’s helpful if you’re going to do your own legwork to go into the top three AI engines and ask them about your brand and what they know about it, and ask them about your competitors. From there, you’ll be able to see kind of where you stand right now from a digital footprint perspective, whether they’re able to really go into detail about your brand versus your competitors, and you’ll almost be able to stack your brand versus your competitors in just an order of how much attention the AI bots give them. Um, from that point on, there are a ton of tools you can use from the markup perspective. Schema.org is a free tool. It has schema data on it. It shows you how to build it. They have schema data for everything from office to FAQs to little call out statistical sections. Um, that’ll help you write the code itself. If you if you can’t, you know, work with an agency that can help you do that. Um, and it also has an AI testing tool, a schema markup testing tool in it, where you can go in and utilize that to make sure that you’re writing it correctly. Um, if you want to branch out from that, there’s a ton of amazing tools to look at your brand and the questions that are going into your brand of where you stand with eyes. Um, scrunch eye is one of them. Peck eye. Semrush has its own version of this. Uh, Ahrefs is coming out with a new version of how it tracks AI bots. Um, really, it’s just, I think leaning into, you know, looking at what what is kind of your, your budget and your resources for utilizing AI. And then, um, just working backwards. You can even ask the tools, what they prefer, what they lean into. Um, and if they don’t understand a concept, ask them why. Ask them how they’re built. They’ll tell you it’s really interesting.

Mindy Weinstein: And they’re so polite to I don’t know why. They’ll just keep in my head, like, if you like. I feel like when you use the different like I was on ChatGPT like it compliments you like, oh, that’s really good. Like you feel affirmed after going on there. Um, yes. To what Heather said. And then, um, some other things, because that is actually usually what I recommend is to check what is being said about your brand, and it’s also a good opportunity for you to make sure the narrative is correct. If you’re like, well, that’s not right, you can see where the source is coming from. Maybe it is something on your website you didn’t realize it was still there, and it’s older and that needs to be updated, or it’s something you were quoted in a long time ago that may need to be updated. You could reach out to that source. And so it’s a good idea for sure to do that. And then also and this is because we talked about questions earlier. So there are really good tools for that. So you can use a tool called also Asked.

Mindy Weinstein: It actually pulls from Google’s people also ask section. But a lot of times those questions are very similar to what would show up in the chat prompt. So that’s a really great one. And same with answer the public. That one pulls from a lot of different resources as well, but it’s a good one. So those would just help you really come up with more of the topical matter. So when we’re talking about the questions and things, but just know if you’re listening to this like, and you’re overwhelmed, like, there are so many things you can do, but just start with what would actually generate business for you. Because I even sometimes get all excited and want to put everything out there. But really, what’s going to make sense to bring in customers and clients like that’s what you’re going to focus on first. You know, also what people ask you when they call, like, I mean, all of us being business owners, you know, we’re in sales too. We know what people are asking us. And so, you know, start looking for that and see what’s coming up in the prompts.

Renita Manley: This is this is so much information. I know for sure that I’ll be going back and listening to this again. I want to I want to get clarification about one thought, and then I want to go back to that LinkedIn question, because still are we listening? Probably are going to click on this link from LinkedIn. Uh, so clarification what I’m hearing you all say is and please correct me if I’m wrong, we bees or small business owners can now, um, focus on specific content, but you just kind of want to regurgitate that content in different ways for different platforms. Uh, like top ten and an image top ten and a blog post top ten in a video format. That was just my example. Um, is that is that what I’m hearing? And then once. Yeah.

Mindy Weinstein: Oh, sorry. As I say, I don’t use regurgitate. I use repurpose, but repurpose.

Renita Manley: Repurpose.

Mindy Weinstein: Regurgitate works well too. All right. Continue on.

Renita Manley: Okay. And then, um, well, you can address that part first, and then I’ll get to the LinkedIn question next. That’ll be my final question because we’re we’re in deep right now.

Mindy Weinstein: Yeah. So I mean I do like I do recommend um, repurposing content because again, that is to me like just going back and being like in the marketing brain again, going back to like, how do people want content? Well, we consume content different ways. So yeah, if you come up with something and it’s, you know, list of ten tips on x, y, z. And that’s your nice blog that you wrote with this great authoritative direct information. So not fluff like you are. You’re giving your expertise. Yes, create a video that talks about it and maybe it doesn’t get into all ten topics. Maybe you do a one that’s like the top ones. You know, the top two of those or however you want to do it, but it just allows you to take the concept or the topic and put it into those different formats that people like, and also the AI bots like. And actually still Google likes because we do still have that. I know we’re not talking about Google in terms of it still being a search engine, but there’s still a lot of people just going there as well. So we’re we’re checking all our boxes.

Heather Schallert: Absolutely. Um, the other thing too, I think that it feels really overwhelming. You’re like, what content do I work with? What do I start with? Start with your top performers. Start with the ones that have always done the best for you and take another lens with them and say, how do I take these five pages, these five landing pages, these five articles, whatever that content is for you? And how do I make it outshine all the articles that compete with it directly? Just focus on those five. Go into the AI bots themselves. Ask them about those five and ask them how they can create them. You know, make them better. Look at your competitors. And the other thing to do a lot of testing, it’s it’s really like a brave new world. It reminds me so much of SEO in like 2000, 2002. Um, you know, it’s a pioneering time. They don’t have complex algorithms. You’re not trying to beat them. You can really experiment with formatting and schema and answer design, and you’ll be able to gain an early edge if you embrace it. Uh, they follow clear patterns. You’ll be able to see what works and just duplicate that against your next highest performing content piece.

Renita Manley: He’s got it, got it. And then, um, a couple of tips on how can our ribs get their content more visible on LinkedIn, which I think that’s our favorite platform to use. Like, what can they do to make sure a post is being seen? Um, you know, week one, not week four.

Mindy Weinstein: Um, I can talk to that first. So we’ve been playing because again, you even mentioned, like it’s an algorithm, all these different algorithms that you have to put up with. And so LinkedIn, um, they are regularly updating their algorithm to. But one of the things and this is very tactical, um, but we’ve been experimenting with this is before you post on LinkedIn, spend about 5 to 10 minutes interacting with other people, commenting, liking, but spend 5 to 10 minutes doing that. So you’re almost like warming up your presence and then post. And we’ve actually seen an increase with that. And, um, there’s some I mean, it’s, you know, some of these things are just like, how is that a thing? But it works. And so that’s one of the like little tidbits that we have. And I’m sure Heather has more to.

Heather Schallert: Yeah. And I think always using LinkedIn and synergy with your website. So if your website’s talking about your LinkedIn, post to it. If your LinkedIn is talking to your website, think back to it. I would say the three takeaways from LinkedIn is start with a really bold statement, a statistic, or an open ended question that will link that’ll link in LMS right away. It’s synergistic with Google. It’s great for audiences, use a lot of like line breaks. Make it pretty, make it easy to scan the content and have a really strong call to action and delineation of why this matters. Rather, get to the meat and potatoes of it, site your benefits, site your pain points. Um, and then think about publishing when your audience scrolls, you know, Tuesday to Thursday between 8 to 10 a.m., make sure that you’re looking at your time zones. Avoid weekends, um, and boost your comments in addition to what Mindy was saying. The warmup we’ve tested that as well. It’s incredibly useful. Boost your comments, not just your likes. Uh, LinkedIn heavily rewards comment activity, especially within the first 90 minutes. So, you know, get your team involved, get people really generating that buzz around what you’re posting so that it can saturate and get farther in the algorithm.

Mindy Weinstein: I love what you just said, because that is one of the things we say to like, get. Yeah, get your team. Or even if you don’t have a team, get your sister and your your neighbor. Just like, hey, I just posted, can you go on there? Um, because yeah, that does make a difference. You need that immediate lift.

Heather Schallert: And you can tag in other people. Ask other people in the industry, ask subject matter experts what they think. They might not reply to you, but it’ll definitely, you know, get more eyes on what you’re talking about.

Lee Kantor: Now, what is kind of the. Maybe this is the dirty little secret when it comes to these third party platforms like LinkedIn or Facebook or Instagram. If you have, you know, x number of followers in any one of these platforms, if you just do a post, just a generic post, what percent are actually seeing that without you boosting or doing any of these little magic tricks that you’re talking about here? Like what? What what’s the reality behind that? Because, um, I think a lot of people are going to be shocked that that number is extremely low. But, Mindy, why don’t you kind of chime in on this?

Mindy Weinstein: Yeah, it’s it’s low. Yeah it is. Well it depends. Okay. Again. No, I give you another answer that it depends, but it’s okay because I’m gonna give you more information. But because this is something that like we have different clients and it’s that some of them, you know, they might have tens of thousands of followers. Why? Another one has a couple thousand for their business, but the couple thousand gets more engagement because it really does matter. Um, to Heather’s point, we’re talking about LinkedIn is are people engaging? And it has to be, let’s say, even for Instagram, it’s more than just liking something. It has to be that people are saving your content, even LinkedIn, to that. They’re saving it because it had really great stuff. So they’re going to save it for later. And so the more that that starts to happen, then those different platforms. So whether it’s Instagram or LinkedIn, they start to put you in front of more people. But if you’re posting content and you’re just not getting any kind of interactions, even if you have 100,000 followers, you’re not going to be in front of all of those people, because those algorithms recognize what you’re putting out there just must not be overly engaging. So you have to take those steps. And with that, just to make it more tangible, if you’re like, how do I create something that someone would save? Well, let’s say that I’m just going to go something really random, but let’s say you have this great, um, business where you create custom cookies that people use for their businesses. So it’s like branded and all of that. Well, you could put some really nice layout and example of what a client did and something that’s really creative and even put in the post. You know, save this for future inspiration. And so you’re almost telling the person like you are supposed to say this. And so you’ll get more people doing things like that, but all of those things, and they’re all the little things that make your reach bigger for your followers.

Heather Schallert: Definitely. It’s really low. Um, I would say on a LinkedIn personal profile, 5% of people on average would see it. A company page is almost like a half percent to 2%. Um, but it’s all about engagement. It is that first 30 minutes to 90 minutes, uh, because LinkedIn works with what’s called throttle distribution to test engagement. So be unique. Be funny. Be strong. Stand out. When you do that post. Be devoted to staying on LinkedIn for 30 minutes to an hour, interacting with that post, interacting with questions, interacting with people. You can also tag in additional information into your post. So maybe 20 minutes in, you know. Put a checklist that’ll help people solve that problem. Put a link to a video that will help people understand the questions that they’re asking about what you proposed for. You know, get it going and get it and nurturing the audience.

Lee Kantor: Or is it good mojo to just post on your feed and then take that same post and then post it into maybe specific groups within you know, that your members of. Or is that like something not to do?

Heather Schallert: Um, I don’t think it’s it’s a not to do it. I think you want to speak specifically to the groups more tactfully. In fact, I would almost say reverse that. I would get the buzz going on the groups first. Um, just kind of tiny little snippets about what you’re going to post on your personal or on your company profile, and then really bring the whole conversation together on your main profile, whether that’s your personal or your your company, and then boost it, you know, tag other people and use all those engagement tactics that we were talking about.

Lee Kantor: Now, Renita, we were talking at the very start of this. We were kind of throwing out some of the jargon in the in the space. Do you want to get into having a conversation and defining some of those words?

Renita Manley: Well, I guess I will say she brought up. Well, we got into SEO, we got into AIO. Before we start recording, I brought up, um, another acronym. Not sure if it’s related to this. Um, but it’s maybe one of the new hobbies acronyms AGI, AGI or something like that. Can you elaborate on that?

Mindy Weinstein: Heather had a good one. I don’t use that one I use. I’ve been going back and forth between IO and Geo. So Geo is again, that’s generative engine optimization. I feel like we can’t like right now it’s. There hasn’t been a consensus on like, what are we going to call this? But it’ll be interesting. But Heather had a really good explanation of I remember of the other.

Heather Schallert: Yeah, I think it’s just all keywords. People are just trying to name the same thing. Agi technically stands for artificial general intelligence, and it’s a type of AI that can perform any intellectual task, uh, any human can do. So it’s not limited to Llms in particular, but, um, you know, I just call it SEO for LLM engines. Obviously.

Mindy Weinstein: That’s a good way to put it to.

Lee Kantor: Um, so if somebody wants to learn more about each of your businesses. Heather. Uh, digital Nova. What? What is the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Heather Schallert: Yeah. So our website is the Digital nova.com. Um, you can also check out my LinkedIn. I’m sure it’ll be in the show notes. Um, and we have a lot of information both on our LinkedIn’s, uh, my co-owner and myself, uh, Caitlin Garcia, and on our website, too. So, uh, we also do a lot of free audits and kind of initial consultations for free. So if you have interest in any of this or any follow up questions, we’d love to help you guys grow.

Lee Kantor: Now, what’s your ideal client profile like? Who is the ideal client for your firm?

Heather Schallert: You know, honestly, we just like clients that are really excited about growth. It’s not so much a size, um, we like smaller to medium size clients. We do have some really strong, amazing enterprise clients that we love. Uh, but people that are really going to lean into it, honestly. At the end of the day, it’s just working with a team that that believes in rapid growth, uh, and supports those visions with you together. So it’s really about, you know, people that are going to collaborate more than size for us.

Lee Kantor: And, Mindy, what’s the best way to connect with you and and learn about you and Mark Minecraft.

Mindy Weinstein: Yeah. So well, two things. Um, our website is market mind shift. Com so that’s market mind shift.com. I have a background in psychology. So that’s why you got the mind part in there. But I also did um because I talk a lot about the subject that we were discussing today at conferences. And so I have a lot of resources available and that you can download for free. So um, some just like how to’s, some checklists, like helpful tools and, um, really easy way to get it. Just go to my resources dot I so my resources I and that’ll take you right there. And so that would be the best way. And then of course, I’m on. I’m on LinkedIn as well. I think LinkedIn is my favorite platform. So you can always find me there.

Lee Kantor: And your ideal client, what’s the ideal client for you?

Mindy Weinstein: Yeah, yeah. So, um, it’s interesting, Heather, because when I was wondering, like, what’s your answer? Because we do have certain industries that we have a lot of clients like we have a lot of e-commerce and retail clients. We actually have a lot in the education space. Um, we have a lot of software related clients. But really, when it comes down to it, it’s we look at it as a good match. Like, do you have a team that’s excited about this, that we’re going to be able to be part of your team, but we tend to work more with like midsize companies and some enterprise clients. Those are the main focus that we have. But I also personally just do a ton of training. So that’s also just another thing. And for that it’s any any anyone who wants to learn. Um, I’ve been a professor for a while too, so you can see I’m a talker, so I will teach you things.

Lee Kantor: Well, thank you both for sharing your story today. You’re both doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Mindy Weinstein: Thank you for having you.

Heather Schallert: It’s been a great conversation.

Mindy Weinstein: Yeah, it’s been fun.

Lee Kantor: Renita, any last words before we wrap?

Renita Manley: Yeah. Mindy. Heather, thank you so much. I really did learn a lot. I learned a lot. Every time I had these, um, I’m hosting a new podcast episode, but this episode, I learned a lot. So thank you both so much for sharing all that information. Um, to all our listeners out there, we do have a couple of events coming up. Um, I want to encourage everybody to check our feedback vest events calendar for our Colorado VBS. We have on August 14th a forum event, so check that out. Mastering Mergers and Acquisitions, I believe, is the name for that August 14th Colorado Forum event. And then on August 22nd, we have before Summer slips away. That’s going to be hosted by our Orange County Forum. So go check that one out. I believe our CEO and president, Doctor Pam, might be attending that event just to kind of meet with some on the ground and see what’s going on with all out there in California. So just go check our website. Um, Rebecca Hyphen west.com for more information and go up to the events tab. So I hope that all was accurate.

Lee Kantor: All right Renita. Well thank you everybody for doing this. This was so important for everybody listening. This thing’s changing so fast, and we all need all the help we can get. Uh, this is Lee Kantor for Renita Manley. We will see you all next time on Women in Motion.

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