Tussle: The Game-Changing Gear for Women in Fight Fitness

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios, it’s time for Women in Motion. Brought to you by WBEC-West. Join forces. Succeed together. Now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of Women in Motion and this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, WBEC-West. Without them, we couldn’t be sharing these important stories. Today on Women in Motion, we have Cary Williams with Tussle. Welcome.

Cary Williams: Well, hello. Nice to get on here with you and chat.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Tussle.

Cary Williams: Yes. Well, Tussle is a fight fitness gear company, and we specialize in women’s gear. So, we’re talking about athletes and non-athletes. So, you know, we’ve got gals that do boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai, MMA, but they also do these activities for fitness. And so, we specialize in making their gear, well that it fits. We’re not doing a shrink it and pink it with it. We are actually form-fitting gear to fit them, and it looks amazing as well.

Lee Kantor: So, what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Cary Williams: Yes. So, about 26 years ago, I guess, I opened my first boxing and fitness gym. So, this was way before boxing and fitness kind of went together in the same sentence. And you would either go to a boxing gym to learn how to be a fighter, or you would do Tae Bo at home. So, I opened a- you know, it was kind of a pioneer back then and offering boxing for the everyday person that wanted to learn the skill set but didn’t want to get punched in the face. And I ended up growing that gym to three locations. I did not have any boxing experience before I dove into that. I didn’t have any business experience. I don’t have a business degree. So, you know, it was kind of I ended up becoming a fighter in an Olympic level coach throughout the years. So, it’s kind of a little bit of a backwards story, I would say, because usually you’re an athlete, a coach, and then you open a gym, but that’s, you know, the- that’s kind of the beginnings of everything.

Lee Kantor: So, what attracted you to boxing and fighting?

Cary Williams: Well, I was raised by my father, and I remember watching boxing with him being a youngster. But what had happened was when I graduated from college with my Environmental Science degree, I had a friend who was a boxer at the time. And I remember him talking about how people would come into the boxing gym, and they’d want to learn how to box, but they didn’t want to be fighters, and they never- you know, the trainers would say, “Well, you know, you’re going to- we’re not going to work with you because you don’t want to fight.”

And I just kind of thought, well, maybe that’s an opportunity to jump on. And I started thinking about what could I do? How could I open a business that is something no one’s done before? And that’s kind of what struck me was this, you know, kind of it was a gap in the market, really, something that hadn’t been done, and there was a need for it. So, I decided to hire him as my head trainer, and I put together a business plan. Back then, we didn’t have Google, so I bought a Business Plan for Dummies book. And I wrote up a business plan, and I set up an appointment with a banker at Bank of America. I did a lot of research on SBA and all of that, and I was able to land a $40,000 SBA loan, which he called a feel-good loan because I didn’t have any collateral or experience. And then, I kind of just took off running with that.

Lee Kantor: Now, were you initially targeting men, or was it men and women? Like, how did kind of the concept evolve?

Cary Williams: You know, initially, because there weren’t really any women that were doing boxing or really wanting to do any boxing, I really focused on everybody. So, you know, the thing is you kind of go into that guerrilla marketing state where we didn’t have, like I said, Google. So, we didn’t have social media, obviously. The field was very different as far as how you marketed. So, I would print up fliers, I’d go to local events, boxing events and pass out fliers. And I started actually get some press. So, I started to learn very quickly that I was a bit of an anomaly in that kind of arena. So, I wrote some press releases, sent out to the local press and was able to get some great articles on, you know, this woman opening a boxing gym in Sacramento, California. And that really did the trick. You know, getting that press really catapulted the business. So, yeah, you know, these are the things you do is kind of boots on the ground.

Lee Kantor: So, the boots on the ground, you’re just looking for people to come in and join, right? Like you didn’t care, man, woman. It was- you were just trying to get members at that point.

Cary Williams: Just getting members. You know, back then, I didn’t really think about, “Oh, we’re going to just cater to men or just cater to women.” It wasn’t even a thought in my head. It was just getting people in that wanted to learn but wanted to do it more for a workout. But we did start- because I am a woman, obviously, we did start to see more women coming in because, you know, if they see an article of this woman opening a boxing gym, immediately it’s, you know, female-friendly and, you know, I can come in, I can learn self-defense, I can feel comfortable, I could feel safe, you know, all of these things. So, we definitely started seeing a lot more women come in. And I’d say, you know, in the beginning it may have been about 20% women, which back then for a boxing gym was pretty high.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, I would imagine. And then, would it be that the woman is coming, like you mentioned, “Oh, I’m going to work out. But I’ll also learn self-defense.” Like, was- like how important was self-defense in kind of the marketing and the positioning of the service?

Cary Williams: You know, initially, I think that a lot of women did come in for that, but once they figured out that, “Wow, this is a great workout. My body’s changing,” then they saw more benefits to it. And then, what ended up happening, you know, like, over the years, maybe the first few years, we started to be a bit more fitness focused. And then, people were coming in for the fitness aspect of it. You know, we had- I actually created the first, what we call, boxing camps. You know, everybody says boot camp. There’s a camp kind of put on to everything. But back then, there really weren’t things like that. And so, I created these four-week boxing camps. And so, you know, we did the weights and measurements. We did nutritional guides. You know, there was a set time. They came in for four weeks, and so they could really see the changes and the progress. So, they would then start coming in more for the fitness side of it. And then, they would end up staying, not even because of the fitness part of it, but because they were learning this amazing sport, appreciating the sport, and it was challenging, and they started to kind of fall in love with that and the community that, you know, we were building throughout the gyms.

Lee Kantor: And this is a great example for our listeners that are entrepreneurs. At first, you’re just trying to see what works, right? Like everything’s kind of an experiment, and you’re doing different things, and you’re trying different things. And then, where you finding yourself, “Okay, this is working, let’s do more of this,” “This is not working. Let’s not do that,” like, is that how it, kind of, over the years, kind of fleshed out to what it is?

Cary Williams: Yeah, I believe those, and I don’t own any gyms anymore which, you know, we’ll get to Tussle because Tussle is a gear company. But over the years of those gyms, you definitely- you know, I had a lot of people going, “oh, you should add in kickboxing. You should add in yoga. You should add in, you know, all sorts of things.” But I stayed really true to, you know, what it was and what I started as, which, you know, there’s like two sides of that coin, right? There’s one part where you kind of stay the course, but then the other side, when you’re doing your marketing and figuring out what customers are coming in and what they’re wanting, then you have to be pliable. So, you know, you kind of have to shut the noise out of people telling you what you should be doing and listen to what’s actually happening in your space.

Lee Kantor: So, then, you kind of rode that wave for quite some time. You got to the point where you were franchising the concept.

Cary Williams: Yes, I started franchising the concept in 2007. And I ended up getting, you know, lots of loans because in California it’s extremely expensive to franchise, and I didn’t have any partners or anything. So, took out a bunch of loans, started franchising. I sold my first franchise. I had a couple of area development agreements that were in line to be signed. And by 2008, all of that changed.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. 2008, for those who weren’t paying attention, there was a little bit of a financial crisis.

Cary Williams: Yeah. So, when the housing market crashed, it crashed my company. You know, when you have agreements that are ready to be signed and you have folks that are ready to open up, you know, 20 gyms in Spain or whatever, and then the bank pulls back financing for that individual, then that goes away for you. You know, our company was impacted a lot by the housing market crash. So, what ended up happening was I had to close the franchise company. I ended up keeping three of my gyms open and went through some other things personally. And within a couple of years, I decided to move to Santa Monica, California from Sacramento. And I let my managers, at the time, run the gyms. And then I just opened a small studio in Santa Monica that was more of a one-woman show at that point.

Lee Kantor: And then, now, with all this experience in the space, you decided to kind of go into the clothing and apparel line.

Cary Williams: Well, I decided to go into the gear-

Lee Kantor: Gear?

Cary Williams: – line? Yeah.

Lee Kantor: So, that’s-.

Cary Williams: So, we do have apparel though, too. But what happened was- so, I’ll try to skip forward. My story is a little long, but what happened was when I had my studio in Santa Monica, I started to work with a lot of trainers. And so, I had a certification program. So, I started certifying trainers to teach boxing. It’s kind of to where you get to a point where you’re gaining such a skill set in one thing, and you want to pass it down to somebody else to also do that. So, I started training trainers. I started traveling around the country, universities and gyms and kind of, you know, training up all of these amazing fitness people to be able to teach boxing, because boxing started to become very popular in the fitness space and it’s continuing to grow.

So, I started doing that. And I was at a trade show last year, which is the IDEA World Convention. If you’re in the fitness space, you’re familiar with it. And I had these gloves that I had created for the programing that I was, you know, certifying trainers for, which was a boxing and a weightlifting program. And I had created these special gloves you could box with, and you could lift weights with. And I had those out in my booth, not really paying any attention to- you know, it wasn’t my focus of selling the product; it was more of the service. And I had a buyer from TJ Maxx approached me and asked if they could put in an order for my gloves.

Lee Kantor: It’s that simple, folks, right?

Cary Williams: Oh, boy. If only, right?

Lee Kantor: It just took, what, 25 years to be an overnight success.

Cary Williams: And still working on it. So, you know, that had happened. And it really kind of hit me. I thought, “Well, maybe I should change direction and focus on product. I have these amazing gloves that are the only glove like it in the market. And I just had a buyer of a huge retail company come up and want to put an order in for them. So, maybe that’s where my focus should go.” So, I sat on that for a few months, and I really thought out, what do- you know if I’m going to do product, what is my focus? You know, where should it be at? What population do I want to serve? And for me, it’s girls and women, and that’s for a lot of reasons. I mean, I’m a woman but also because in our space, there aren’t any companies that are really specifically making gear that fits us. And I thought, well, that’s where I’m going. I’m going to start a fight gear company and it’s going to be really for girls and women. And I came up with Tussle, created the logo, I started designing the website and it just kind of blossomed into this whole new thing. And I launched it in January 2024.

Lee Kantor: And here we are. We’re, what? Six-seven months in? What’s it- are you getting traction? Are you getting more and more orders? Is it- is the marketplace kind of embracing this?

Cary Williams: Yes, all three. We’re definitely getting more orders in. The market’s definitely embracing the- the gals who are in this space are really excited about it. We don’t just do boxing gear. So, we do, you know, Muay Thai gear, MMA gear. You know, pretty much all the fight gear you could think of, specifically for girls and women. And our hybrid glove, which is my patent-pending glove, is kind of a superstar of, you know, our line. I had a meeting with Dick’s Sporting Goods in March, which, first of all, was, you know, quite a feat to get that meeting. And we’re going to do a test in 25 of their stores.

Lee Kantor: Wow. That is an amazing success story. And it shows you a lot of lessons in that. And you touched upon one of them is when you start kind of going deep in one niche, you become kind of a subject matter expert and understand some of the nuances that maybe somebody who has more of a generalist understanding of things doesn’t appreciate. But because you went deep, you saw there was a space for what you have to offer.

Cary Williams: Yeah, I truly believe that. I think if you’re, you know, looking at what you- you know, maybe you want to be an entrepreneur or maybe you are already and really kind of figuring out in your space, where is there a gap? You know, we have to fill the gaps. We have to find the problem, and we have to create a solution. And, you know, that’s really, you know, what Tussle is. So, for any entrepreneur out there, that’s how you start it, right? What’s the problem? Where’s the solution? And how do I create that solution? And then, actually, let people know about what I’m offering. You know, that’s always the big hurdle.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. There’s lots of hurdles. There’s not just one hurdle. It seems at every turn, there’s another hurdle.

Cary Williams: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: That’s why being an entrepreneur is not for the faint of heart.

Cary Williams: No, no, you have to be a risk taker. Big time risk taker, right? You have to be diligent. You have to have a mind of steel. Meaning you’re going to hear a lot of nos, and you’re going to get a lot of non-responding emails, calls. You know, a lot of that’s going to happen. And honestly, it does get discouraging. I’m not going to, you know, sugarcoat it. I’m not going to say, you know, “Oh, I have a strong mind. Therefore, it’s not hard,” or “Therefore I’m not discouraged,” because that does happen. I think it happens to every entrepreneur. But you know, the one thing that I have learned over all these years as an entrepreneur is that even when things seem like they’re not moving forward, if you’re diligent and you’re working every day toward your goal, they are moving forward. You’re just not seeing it yet.

Lee Kantor: Exactly. And that’s one of those things where- and I’m sure in the ring, it’s the same thing, right? You got to do the work every day. And then, it- you’re betting it’s going to pay off over time, you know, when it matters. And then, you might not see the benefit that minute but, you know, when the bell rings and you can still stand up and go, that’s where that is paying off.

Cary Williams: Exactly. All the hard work, all the early mornings, the bumps and the bruises, you know, all those things. Yeah. I mean when you’re in the thick of it in training for boxing or any, you know, combat sport, you’re just day in and day out doing the same thing, doing the same thing. You’re not seeing that end result yet. And then, when you step in there for competition, then it all kind of comes together.

Lee Kantor: Now, why was it important for you to become part of the WBEC-West community? Because it sounds like a lot of your work has been kind of as the solo founder of things.

Cary Williams: Yeah. Well, you know, I felt like WBEC-West really gave me a lot of different opportunities and continues to do that. You know, when they send out emails, their emails are full- chockful of great information, great opportunities. I never want to miss one of their emails because, you know, it’s- there’s always something in there. And, you know, becoming a certified woman-owned business that was- you know, it’s a tough thing to go through as far as you know, there’s lots of different hoops to jump through, lots of, you know, paperwork and those things. And they were just really, really helpful and made that process a lot easier for me. So yeah, I’m really glad to be a part of them.

Lee Kantor: So, what’s next for Tussle? You mentioned some deals with, you know, large stores and retail establishments. What else is on the roadmap as you move forward?

Cary Williams: Yes. We’re building our athlete teams. So, we have a couple of gals who are affiliates with Tussle that are at the Olympics right now. So, we’re, you know, really building our community just so that we can really spread the word, and so that all girls and women who are in this space, they know that we’re here and we’re there for them. And that’s really important to us. I mean, it’s, you know, really why I started the brand and the company, you know, not only just to give them what they need, but also support them in all of their journeys. So, you know, we’re continuing to do that. We’ll continue with Dick’s. We’re testing in 25 stores. So, I know it’s going to do extremely well. So, we’ll be getting into all their stores at some point and that’ll be a big endeavor. So, yeah, just continuing to push forward.

Lee Kantor: So, if somebody wants to check out the gear, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect with you all?

Cary Williams: Yes. It’s tusslegear.com. And our Instagram is also @tusslegear.

Lee Kantor: And that’s T-U-S-S-L-E-G-E-A-R dot com?

Cary Williams: Yes, correct.

Lee Kantor: Well, Cary, congratulations on all the success and the momentum. You’re doing such important work. And we appreciate you.

Cary Williams: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on to share.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Women in Motion.