Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Association Leadership Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here another episode of Association Leadership Radio. And this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have Jason Mott, who is the president of the American Association for Men in Nursing. Welcome.

Jason Mott: Thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn about your association. Tell us a little bit about it. How are you serving folks?

Jason Mott: Yeah. So as an organization, we’ve been around for little over 50 years. Started in 1973. Really kind of started as an organization to support men in nursing, since at the time when we started, there really wasn’t a whole lot of men in nursing. And so throughout our history we’ve grown. So we’re one of our big focuses still is to support men in nursing. But we’ve also grown to expand where we’re trying to do much more in the research arm related to men’s health and Men in nursing. And then our latest initiative within the last year or so has really been to try to focus on improving the health of men throughout the country, where we’re actually creating a men’s health alliance, where we’re going to be able to focus. And actually, there will be the first and only area in healthcare that’s focusing primarily on men’s health. So really trying to increase the health of men throughout the community and looking at a whole lot of different aspects of health care.

Lee Kantor: And when you’re talking about health, are you talking about kind of medical health or mental health? Physical health.

Jason Mott: So pretty much all of it. One of the things that we know through research is that men struggle a lot with increased suicide rates. We also know that men tend to die younger than women. So really looking at their physical health, one of the big things that is an issue with a lot of men is, and I’m sure you probably know this too, is that a lot of times men don’t really seek health care until something’s wrong, like, hey, I’m feeling great, so I don’t need to go to the doctor. And then by the time they actually go in, it’s kind of they’re getting towards later in a disease process where if they had gone earlier, we could have maybe done things to improve their health. So it’s looking at getting men in faster, having them seek health care, feeling comfortable seeking health care, looking at physical health, looking at mental health issues. Because again, a lot of times guys don’t like to talk about things and so they keep it bottled in. So really looking at their mental health and being able to explore a lot of those things.

Lee Kantor: Now, what was kind of the impetus to expand the shift of the organization beyond nursing?

Jason Mott: So I think one of the big things is that so when you look at health care, people like to see people who look like them. So if we’re talking about an African-American client, they like to have nurses or doctors who are who look like them. Same thing with men. A lot of times I’d like to have a male provider. And so I think for our organization, really focusing on men in nursing and having a large percentage of men in nursing as our members, I think we have the perfect opportunity to go dive into that realm. Like we can understand what men are seeking in the health care setting, um, as well as why men don’t seek health care. And so really bringing that unique understanding that we have as an organization. Um, so one of the things I think when you look at nursing in general, and this is no disrespect or anything to our physician counterparts, but nursing tends to have look at more of the holistic picture. So not only just looking at the health care, but looking at social aspects and things like that, that’s really ingrained in nursing education compared to a lot of medical education. So I think our organization, especially having a lot of men being part of it, has that unique opportunity to look at that whole social dynamic, the health seeking behaviors. All of those things, along with having especially when you get into nurse practitioners and things, having that ability to diagnose and treat and things that I think really kind of sets us apart from everywhere else.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, are the numbers trending to see more, uh, men in nursing, or is it kind of what it’s always been?

Jason Mott: It’s slowly progressed. I mean, back in the like 70s, we were probably 4%. Now we’re probably about the last decade or so, we’ve been hanging around the 10 to 15% of nurses being men. Now we’re seeing more. If you’re looking at a numbers perspective, we’re definitely seeing more men. Um, but the percentage is kind of been hanging out the same because you’re also increasing the number of nurses. So percentage wise it’s kind of been in that roughly 5% range. So from the 10 to 15%, but definitely seeing a lot more. So I mean there’s about 3.5 million nurses. So we’re getting roughly 3 to 400,000, um, men who are in the nursing profession now.

Lee Kantor: Now is there um, are the numbers of like doctors going down or is that a growing field or like, where are we at kind of in as a profession because you hear so much about like now the advent of telemedicine. And after the pandemic, so many more people were embracing that type of, uh, communication with medical professionals virtually. Is that opening up more opportunities for men as nurses or physicians, assistants or other pathways other than being an MD?

Jason Mott: Oh, definitely. I think so. One of the things that’s interesting, if you look at medicine is that they are roughly 5050, in terms of male versus female, where nursing, we’re still trying to get up to that equality or that equity. So we’re can be close to 5050. Now, one of the things I think with nursing that’s different with medicine and why I think it’s been a struggle, is that nursing for a long time was basically the time of Florence Nightingale back in the 1850s. So actually I’m going to kind of take a step back. So it’s interesting. So when we talk about nursing profession, most people in nursing think that nursing started in the 1850s with Florence Nightingale. Um, when we have National Nurses Week and Nurses Month, that’s all focused around her birthday. But in fact, most nursing before that point was done by men. So either in clergy roles or, as part of their military, they would serve as nurses. And so when Nightingale came around, she basically felt that men and minorities didn’t belong in nursing. And so made it where it was a profession that’s heavily dominated by white females. And so because of that, nursing since that time has not really been seen by a lot of people as a profession for men.

Jason Mott: So I can tell you personally, like when I was in middle school, in high school I would I was doing career traces. I always came out as being something related to the health care professions. But I was always directed towards either physical therapy, a physician assistant, or being an MD. Nursing was never brought up, which seems to be still occurring. Um. So where? High school guidance counselors aren’t really seeing nursing as a profession for men. And so I think because of that, most men don’t really go into nursing right out of high school. In fact, most nursing programs or most men who are in nursing actually come in as second degree nurses where they got a degree somewhere else, did it for a while, didn’t really like it, and said, you know, I’ve always wanted to be a nurse, so now I’m coming back to being nursing. So I think we see that. But, well, I’m one of the big things we’re going to have to do, which we’ve been working on, is trying to increase awareness about nursing as a great profession for men to the public, as well as high school and middle school guidance counselors.

Lee Kantor: Now, in practice, does the patient is there a bias against men, like when they’re needing care. Do they have a problem with men as nurses, or is this kind of just a mindset shift?

Jason Mott: I think more a mind shift, such shift, um, for the most part. Well, actually, a lot of the male patients prefer to have a male nurse. Um, sometimes with especially elderly female patients, it gets a little bit tricky. Um, depending on what you have to do, if you have to do more like intimate cares, like inserting catheters or things like that. Sometimes they’re a little bit more uncomfortable having a man. Um, there’s still within the public, unfortunately, a bias that a lot of men go into nursing because of, like seeking sexual gratification, which is definitely not the case. But What? Sometimes your elderly patients still have that kind of mindset, so you can get a little bit of bias there. I guess the other big type of bias is that a lot of times, and I can’t tell you how many times personally, like walk into a room and the patient thinks that you’re the physician and they’re like, oh, you’re my doctor today. Well, no, I’m your nurse. So it’s just getting that mindset shift from the public that, hey, men are actually in nursing. And actually, I had so many patients say, like, you know, you’re the best nurse I ever had. And I would love to have another guy as a nurse. So I think once we get more men and they’re able to really see what men bring to the field, I think that’s going to really help with that whole mindset that the public has now.

Lee Kantor: Is it awkward in the sense in the example you just brought, like, say, there’s a male nurse and a female nurse in a room and the patient looks to the male, as, are you my doctor? Are they? Does that how does that make the woman nurse feel like? Do they feel like they’re, you know, kind of. It’s an uphill battle for them when it comes to kind of credibility and, you know, listening to their opinions and thoughts.

Jason Mott: I think sometimes that can definitely play a role. I think one of the things that can be a little bit harder for female nurses, too, is just with interacting with physicians. So I know, like I had a much different relationship with a lot of the physicians I worked with than my female colleagues. So, I mean, it can be bad, like you have doctors who will, like, yell at nurses and things like that where They were more apt to do that to a female colleague rather than myself or the male nurses. Um, so and I think I also seem to gain their trust and respect a lot quicker. Even though I was just as competent as my female colleagues. So that gets a little bit tricky, where I think some of the females can be feeling like along the lines of, um, like, how come I have to work harder or things like that sometimes just to gain the respect or trust.

Lee Kantor: So now, in your work with the association, what are some of the services and benefits that the nurses get when they’re part of this group?

Jason Mott: Yeah. So we do a lot. So most nurses need continuing education credits each year kind of varies by state. So we do a lot of continuing education um for nurses offering that. We also have a program called the Future Campaign. And so with that, what we do is our members go out to the high schools and middle schools and talk about nursing as a profession. And so trying to bolster it up, we also offer scholarships for students every year. And now we’re in the process this year of rolling out a leadership, um, fellowship, where participants will be able to go through a year long leadership program so that they can develop their leadership skills and things like that. We’re also going to be starting a mentorship program, so partnering newer nurses with more experienced nurses. So that way they can grow and learn. So like these are some of the situations I’m running into. How do we handle that and things like that, to really hoping to grow and make new nurses feel more comfortable within the profession.

Lee Kantor: Now, how does the aging population play into this? Is there kind of shortage of nurses and like home health care professionals or those not nurses? Like, I would think that there was going to be just a great, great demand of people in health care at this level in order to help just the just vast number of people that are going to need their services.

Jason Mott: Oh, definitely. Yeah. So we talk about, um, the nursing shortage where they’re predicting it’s going to be several hundred thousand nurses. I think it’s like 250 to 300,000 nurses. They’ll be needed within the next ten years. And so I think so if we continue doing what we’re doing, we’re going to run into issues within the health care system. So I think that’s why it’s so important to look for more diverse people. So looking at the males and things who maybe are out in the working in a factory job or things like that, where one of the things I think that’s kind of maybe hurting us a little bit now is because the industry is paying so well after for people right out of high school, they go in and feel like, okay, I can make a lot of money now. And without thinking down the long run, where maybe in when I’m 55 years old, am I going to be wanting to do this? And then we also have issues with technology and AI and robotics and things taking over where it’s replacing a lot of people, whereas nursing, you’re always going to need to have nurses at the bedside taking care of patients.

Jason Mott: So a lot of times the people who especially guys who get into nursing as second degree, have come from factories and things where they’re feeling like there’s not a lot of job security. So they come into nursing knowing it’s a well-paying job and knowing that they’re going to have job security to take care of their families for years and years and years. Plus, I think the other thing with nursing that is a really good option is that you can change. So what I mean by that, so let’s say medicine, you go and train as an orthopedic surgeon, you can only do orthopedic surgeon unless you go back and get extra training and things like that. Whereas nursing I could start off on a medical unit, then I want to go work in surgery and I can do that and just go through an additional six month orientation period. Or I could go work in the ICU or the emergency room. Or I could go back to school and be a nurse practitioner or nurse educator. And so there is a whole variety of things you can do with your degree.

Lee Kantor: And I would imagine there’s opportunity in kind of areas around the country that are more rural that have hospitals in kind of these rural places that that might be difficult for them to staff.

Jason Mott: Oh, exactly. Yeah. Um, I know even with nursing in general, especially if you’re looking at like nurse practitioners and things, telehealth is really taking off, especially in the rural settings where again, you might your closest hospital might be half an hour away, or you have a critical access hospital that can just kind of treat people but then have to send them off. So rural health and taking care of patients in a rural setting is definitely a huge area where nursing can make an impact and things like that.

Lee Kantor: So while the association, obviously it’s historically has been focused on on men and nursing and now your expansion into men in general, how does kind of a membership for just a male in general kind of work, or is it they have to be a nurse in order to participate?

Jason Mott: Nope. So we have actually of our members, one of the interesting things is about 40% of our um, membership is female. So they are those are women who are interested in supporting their male colleagues as well as who are interested in men’s health. And so we’ve got membership for students. We’ve actually got membership rates for um, high school students, uh, Then with nursing we have corporate membership. So one of the things we do is like a community based partnership. So maybe a health care setting and a maybe you have two hospitals in a town and a nursing college. They can all come together and do a joint membership and have a community based chapter. And so we really have opportunities at a whole lot of different levels. We are actually exploring, expanding. So like could we have like EMTs or paramedics as members or physician assistants or even physicians. So really kind of looking at a whole lot of different areas with that.

Lee Kantor: And then, um, so it’s not just a national organization, it has chapters around the country.

Jason Mott: Yep. So we we actually have chapters. Yeah, throughout the country. We also have a chapter in the Philippines and 1 or 2 chapters in Canada. So we actually have a couple international chapters as well.

Lee Kantor: So what happens at the chapter level?

Jason Mott: So the chapter level is kind of where most of the work gets done. So that’s where people are going out into their communities doing education. Um, we have a lot of career fairs and health fairs. So, you know, we have like students going into like boys and girls clubs and teaching about nursing. We have them going to senior centers and offering like blood pressure screenings and things like that. So like the national level, we provide a lot of the resources for chapters and then the chapters who know their communities best will go out into their communities and do things that are really impacting the needs and the health of their are individual communities.

Lee Kantor: And is that something that’s like they partner? I would imagine, with kind of local universities that have nursing degrees, things like that. Is that like the the makeup of a chapter or, or the kind of universities and then the, um, people going through those, um, programs.

Jason Mott: Exactly. So, yeah, so a lot of our chapters are university based. We also have a lot of chapters based out of health care systems. And so like for instance, where I work, um, we have a university chapter. And so any student who is within the university can join our chapter as a student organization. And so then we’ll do things around our community. So like for instance, we are hosting an educational table at the Alzheimer’s Association event, the Walk to End Alzheimer’s in our community and providing Education, um, for like caregivers of patients with Alzheimer’s. And so, yeah, again, a lot of them are university based. And then the students who are part of that university then take part in the chapter.

Lee Kantor: Now, do you find as just, um, having been involved in this organization for a while, is there do you find just people have more empathy nowadays and want to get involved in this type of caregiving profession, or is there is that trending in the right direction? I would hope I hope it is.

Jason Mott: I do, I really think so. I think that people are again viewing nursing as a great career option. Um, I think some of the stigma related to nursing or being a man in nursing is coming down so that people are seeing it more as a good career choice. And I mean, I do think like even though it was bad, I think for a while Covid really helped. You know, with seeing nursing and all the things that nurses did, because I don’t think a lot of times the general population really understands all that nursing does. And so getting more exposure is a great thing because again, most of I think most people’s exposure to nurses, if they haven’t had a themselves or a loved one who’s been sick, is watching TV shows, and those medical shows are not very accurate for what nurses actually do. And so I think having a good exposure really can change people’s mindset.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Jason Mott: I think for us we just need more exposure, which I’m super excited to be talking to everybody here. And you know, just being able to grow and get that exposure out there and really talk about nursing and especially for the men to know, like, okay, this is a really a great field. And, you know, like you can do so much with it and you really can have a really great career from it.

Lee Kantor: And a rewarding career as well.

Jason Mott: Oh, definitely. Yeah. Because I think I hear a lot of times, you know, like with guys or people in general, it’s like, I want to do something that makes a difference or can help people. And this you’re doing that. You’re making a difference in people’s lives every single day that you’re at work.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. And people are hungry for that type of, um, kind of meaning in their life. And this is a way to really do that.

Jason Mott: Exactly.

Lee Kantor: So, Jason, if somebody wants to learn more and connect with you or somebody on your team, is there a website for the association?

Jason Mott: Yes. So it is eight men and we have all kinds of resources on there. We have a bunch of information and then definitely ways to get hold of us.

Lee Kantor: And then they can kind of drill down and find a chapter near them.

Jason Mott: Yes. There is a chapter directory, um, that’s listed out by every state. And so yeah, definitely, I would suggest go to the website and reach out to us because we love to talk to people and respond to people really quickly.

Lee Kantor: Well, Jason, thank you so much for sharing your story, doing important work and we appreciate you.

Jason Mott: Well, thanks again for having me. I really appreciate it.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Association Leadership Radio.