Workplace MVP: Jeff Gorter, R3 Continuum
Critical incident response veteran Jeff Gorter contends that business and human responses to crisis events are not separate but interwoven. On the twentieth anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks, Jeff and host Jamie Gassman discussed the parallels of that event and the COVID-19 pandemic, and the importance of acknowledging 9/11 for your employees. Workplace MVP is underwritten and presented by R3 Continuum and produced by the Minneapolis-St.Paul Studio of Business RadioX®.
Jeff Gorter, Vice President of Crisis Response Services, R3 Continuum
Jeff Gorter, MSW, LCSW, is VP of Clinical Crisis Response at R3 Continuum. Mr. Gorter brings over 30 years of clinical experience including consultation and extensive on-site critical incident response to businesses and communities. He has responded directly to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Hurricane Katrina, the Virginia Tech shootings, the Deepwater Horizon Oil spill, the 2011 earthquake/tsunami in Japan, the Newtown Tragedy, the Orlando Pulse Nightclub Shooting, the Las Vegas Shooting, and the breaching of the US Capitol on 1/6/21. He has conducted trainings and presented at the Employee Assistance Professionals Association Annual Conference, the American Psychological Association Annual Conference, the World Conference on Disaster Management, the International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies Annual Meeting, and at other state, national and international venues on a variety of topics.
R3 Continuum
R3 Continuum is a global leader in workplace behavioral health and security solutions. R3c helps ensure the psychological and physical safety of organizations and their people in today’s ever-changing and often unpredictable world. Through their continuum of tailored solutions, including evaluations, crisis response, executive optimization, protective services, and more, they help organizations maintain and cultivate a workplace of wellbeing so that their people can thrive. Learn more about R3c at www.r3c.com.
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About Workplace MVP
Every day, around the world, organizations of all sizes face disruptive events and situations. Within those workplaces are everyday heroes in human resources, risk management, security, business continuity, and the C-suite. They don’t call themselves heroes though. On the contrary, they simply show up every day, laboring for the well-being of employees in their care, readying the workplace for and planning responses to disruption. This show, Workplace MVP, confers on these heroes the designation they deserve, Workplace MVP (Most Valuable Professionals), and gives them the forum to tell their story. As you hear their experiences, you will learn first-hand, real life approaches to readying the workplace, responses to crisis situations, and overcoming challenges of disruption. Visit our show archive here.
Workplace MVP Host Jamie Gassmann
In addition to serving as the host to the Workplace MVP podcast, Jamie Gassmann is the Director of Marketing at R3 Continuum (R3c). Collectively, she has more than fourteen years of marketing experience. Across her tenure, she has experience working in and with various industries including banking, real estate, retail, crisis management, insurance, business continuity, and more. She holds a Bachelor of Science Degree in Mass Communications with special interest in Advertising and Public Relations and a Master of Business Administration from Paseka School of Business, Minnesota State University.
TRANSCRIPT
Intro: [00:00:03] Broadcasting from the Business RadioX Studios, it’s time for Workplace MVP. Workplace MVP is brought to you by R3 Continuum, a global leader in workplace behavioral health and security solutions. Now, here’s your host, Jamie Gassmann.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:00:24] Hi, everyone. Your host, Jamie Gassmann, here. And welcome to this episode of Workplace MVP. This year marks the 20th anniversary for the 9/11 terrorist attacks. We are also halfway through the second year of the COVID-19 pandemic. Some are calling these two tragic bookends to the last two decades. Interestingly, though, while these two events are different in nature, the impact they made on businesses and employees are very similar.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:00:53] Is this a coincidence? Or is there something to be learned about the impact disruption can have on an organization and its people? What should an employer be focused on when an event like 9/11 or COVID-19 happens? Are there solutions or support options that can be leveraged to help them successfully navigate the troubled aftermath of the events?
Jamie Gassmann: [00:01:15] With us today to share his expertise and firsthand knowledge from responding to the psychological first aid needs of employers for both 9/11 and COVID-19, among other major events across our history, is Workplace MVP Jeff Gorter, Vice President of Crisis Response Services for our show sponsor, R3 Continuum. Welcome to the show, Jeff.
Jeff Gorter: [00:01:37] Thank you, Jamie. I appreciate the opportunity.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:01:40] So, we’re glad to have you here and really interested in hearing a little bit about yourself and your career journey that’s led you to R3 Continuum and to where you’re at today.
Jeff Gorter: [00:01:53] No. Thanks. And just by way of background, I am a clinical social worker, master’s level social worker. And so, I come from a clinical background and have been in the field providing services either in private practice or in a public setting for 35 years. But the last 20 years of that have been specifically focused on providing disaster response.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:02:20] And so, can you share with our audience the disaster response work that you did post-9/11? And how does that compare to the work that you’re doing today in response to the COVID-19 pandemic?
Jeff Gorter: [00:02:33] And if you caught the 20 year reference, I really look at 9/11 as sort of that was certainly my first experience in responding to a large scale event. Part of the backstory of that is that the former president of Crisis Care Network, which is now known as R3 Continuum, Bob VandePol and I were in private practice together. And he had left the practice I’d say six months before 9/11.
Jeff Gorter: [00:03:03] And when the attacks occurred on that day, I called Bob and I said, “Bob, from what I understand, based on the new position that you’re in, I guess your company is going to be involved in this. I just want to let you know I am trained in this, if there’s anything I can do to help.” To which he said, “Can you be on a plane in four hours?” And I was in New York City that evening able to provide and to begin providing response.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:03:34] And how does that compare to some of the response works? I know you’ve done some response work with the COVID-19 pandemic, a lot of that’s been done virtually. But are some of the sessions or some of the work that you’re doing with that, can you tell us a little bit about, you know, how they work and kind of what your role is that you play within that?
Jeff Gorter: [00:03:56] It’s an excellent question. Because I’ve really been wrestling with the fact that, you know, this being the 20th anniversary of 9/11, that was very much in the forefront of my mind, and yet COVID has such a dominating factor. And, as you said in your intro, it’s kind of no surprise that these two things are, you know, juxtaposed here at this moment.
Jeff Gorter: [00:04:19] So, specifically, when I went to New York City, I was deployed to assist businesses as employees were returning to work for the first time following the attacks. And that’s a key element in that, you know, businesses played a major role in helping employees feel like they were getting back to some sense of normalcy or something that they could control. And so, many of the things that they talked about were more tangible, if you will, in the sense that they talked about things like the smells, things like the grittiness of the dust that was everywhere, how a siren going off for a police or fire would create a startle response the first time. And many of us can remember that the first time we saw a plane flying again after all flights had been grounded.
Jeff Gorter: [00:05:19] And so, for many of them these were much more visceral kind of descriptions of what they were going through. And, yet, for many of them, their stories were also about how resilience, how going back to work was not just getting back to work, but was in for many of them, a patriotic act. A small but very tangible stand against the darkness, if you will. And their getting back to work meant this is something I can do in this national crisis.
Jeff Gorter: [00:05:52] Now, in juxtaposing it to COVID-19 that the swift recovery of business operations is and has been continues to be a central component to our nation’s recovery. But it’s different because 9/11 was confined to a day and we didn’t know that at the time. But it’s confined to 9/11. It was a specific point in our calendar that we can look back. And it was a moment of sharp human initiated attack.
Jeff Gorter: [00:06:24] Now, COVID has a different perspective in that it is a prolonged, ongoing, unfolding, still not done crisis, driven primarily by biology. And so, in that sense, you know, the fear and the emotions elicited are, in many ways, just as powerful. Whereas, you could point to it, you could feel it between your fingers in New York City what the attack was like. Here, it’s kind of a vague, shadowy fear creeping outside your door. It’s everywhere, and yet I can’t point to it. And so, the fear is the common factor, but it’s also different kind of fear. And so, I think that’s important to recognize.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:07:16] Absolutely. And, obviously, from a business perspective, there’s some similarities in some of the thinking. And so, looking at your perspective of business leaders – and I know we’ve talked about this and I know you’ve got an opinion and kind of some thoughts – around that balancing act between human and business and how employers need to be looking at that following a disruption in the workplace, can you share your perspective on that with us?
Jeff Gorter: [00:07:42] Yeah. Well, I begin with the assumption that many business makers or business leaders have that the human response and the business aspects are two different things. And I contend that they are not. That they are, in fact, inextricably woven. And that, typically, when a large scale disaster hits, business leaders will go to their business continuity plan. They’ll pull that three ring binder off the shelf or they’ll go to their files and they’ll look at that plan, as they should. And they’ll review that crisis plan, the policies, procedures, what the strategies were to contain the crisis and mitigate the impact. That’s a sound thinking.
Jeff Gorter: [00:08:25] The trouble is, most of those plans focused on issues like I.T. security, facilities management, supply chain integrity, things that undoubtedly are important elements in a business recovery. But these plans often forget the most essential aspect, the human element. It doesn’t matter how secure your firewalls are or how quickly you get the power restored and the computers working again, if the people aren’t reassured and ready to go back to work. So, taking care of your people is taking care of your business. And I know I think it’s a mistake when a business owner says, “Well, I’m going to do one over the other.” They have to be done simultaneously.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:09:10] And, you know, so focusing on that people side of it, when a major incident occurs such as 9/11, or when you’ve got a pandemic like COVID-19, or other types of disruptions that impact a workplace, typically, if you were going to provide recommendation, what’s that first thing that an employer should be focusing on when it comes to their people?
Jeff Gorter: [00:09:33] So, I look at it as two parts. The first part, first and foremost always is safety. I need to ensure the safety of the employees. And that means physical safety and emotional safety. I have to prepare or provide for both aspects of that. So, I need to make sure when a large-scale event happens, have all the appropriate authorities been called? Have the right people been notified? Is the site secure? Are all the employees accounted for? Have immediate steps been taken, even simple steps like providing food, water, or blankets? Have immediate steps been taken for the care and comfort of my team? And has leadership physically directly checked on the team? Have they been visible? Have they gone around? Have they checked on and ensured the safety of everybody, both physically and emotionally? So, safety is first, job one.
Jeff Gorter: [00:10:32] But then, followed up by that, there are three simple things that I would say that the leader needs to do, and that is communicate, communicate, communicate. That one safety is restored, it’s imperative that leadership starts communicating early and often. This establishes them as a credible source of verifiable information, and that is in short supply following a crisis.
Jeff Gorter: [00:11:01] And it’s a common mistake among leaders to say, “Well, you know what? I’ll send a message out.” Or, “I’ll do some communication once I know all the facts. Once I have a complete idea of what’s going on, once I know the whole ball of wax, then I’ll be able to send out a message that encompasses everything.” And then, as one hour goes by and two hours go by and four hours go by, employees in that absence are going to become increasingly anxious. And it’s human nature in the absence of real information to plug in our worst possible fears.
Jeff Gorter: [00:11:40] And so, you know, maybe they’re going to ask themselves, “Maybe leadership was hurt. I thought we would have heard by now. Maybe they’re part of the injured. Maybe they don’t know that this is going on. Maybe they’re unaware of this. Maybe they don’t care.” And you can see that in the absence of real information. By that point, a negative narrative has already begun to take root.
Jeff Gorter: [00:12:04] And it is so hard to play catch up after that and try and establish. Especially in the age of instantaneous communication through social media and other sources like that, it is absolutely essential that a leader is out there early with frequent brief updates sharing what you know, what is verifiable, and share what you don’t know, but promising to confirm it as soon as you can. Which is to say, “I’m going to be open about I don’t know. I don’t, as a leader, have to have all the answers right now.”
Jeff Gorter: [00:12:42] And doing that, sharing what you know, admitting what you don’t but saying I’ll get it as soon as I can, has an incredibly calming and reassuring effect. It will enhance a leader’s standing with their employees and lets them know, “Okay. The leaders have a plan. They know what they’re doing. They are on top of this. I can take a deep breath at this moment.”
Jeff Gorter: [00:13:08] So, again, as an example, saying something like, “Following this event, we can confirm that three employees were injured and have been transported to the hospital,” that’s verifiable. “We don’t know their status at this point, but we will share that info as soon as we get it.” That’s all you need, something as brief as that. So often, again, leaders will, “Well, until we know more, I’m not going to say anything.” Or they’ll make, “I’m sure everybody’s going to be okay.” Are you sure? Can you guarantee that? No? Don’t say it if you can’t.
Jeff Gorter: [00:13:45] Just simply say what you know, admit what you don’t know. But assure them that as soon as we can have verifiable information, we’ll get back to you. It’s amazing how comforting and calming that is for an employee group that is looking to you for leadership in the midst of this.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:14:06] Great. And, you know, as you continue to go through kind of that recovery process after these types of events, when an organization is starting to regain a sense of new normalcy, how, at that point, can business leaders help to support employees and, really, the organization as a whole in that recovery effort?
Jeff Gorter: [00:14:27] Yeah. Kind of building on what I was saying before, that the employee and organizational interplay is inextricably interwoven. The employee recovery depends on organizational recovery and vice versa. Employees are going to look to the workplace for stability, financial stability, as well as just something that I know is there, predictability, structure. They crave a return to something that feels normal, and where they feel in control, and where they know what they’re supposed to do.
Jeff Gorter: [00:15:03] When the crisis happened, I had no idea what I was supposed to do. I’d like to get back to something where I feel I am trained and where I have a sense of influence and agency. Likewise, organizations are only as strong as their employees. And they need engaged, motivated, healthy workers to weather the storm. There’s an old quote from Kipling in which he said, “The strength of the pack is the wolf. And the strength of the wolf is the pack.” Meaning, the interplay between the organization and the individual they support each other.
Jeff Gorter: [00:15:41] And so, business leaders set the tone of positive resilience and an expectation of recovery for everybody. And part of that is ensuring access to the resources that are supportive to their employees, like onsite or virtual behavioral health specialists who are able to provide immediate support, psychological first aid, and encouragement. Being able to offer 24-7 phone or text access, perhaps via their employee assistance program or through other strategic vendors who can provide that. Offering and making sure there is access to print or electronic resources for education, coping, guidance. Things like that are immediate steps that the employer can do to support the employee. And as the employees come back, they support the organization and it is a common effort.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:16:48] And so, for disruptions like with the COVID-19 pandemic where we’re kind of on this ever changing kind of evolution, if you will, for the last year-and-a-half, do some of those same initiatives apply in the context of a disruption that maybe continues to evolve as opposed to a one day event?
Jeff Gorter: [00:17:11] I think you’re absolutely right. And even more so, I think that because what we have come to realize, even though we’re 18 months into this – the words almost stick in my throat in saying that, but that’s where we are right now at this taping – almost every day, it is a changing, fluid, dynamic circumstance. Where we are now and where we were back in February 2020 are vastly different places. And we know so much more and yet we are incredibly aware of how much we don’t know.
Jeff Gorter: [00:17:48] And so, that same central concept that in the absence of real information – I’m going to plug in my fears – just highlights the need for leadership to have a constant, steady, reliable drumbeat of information, even if it’s little bits. Even if my update today is to say no new changes today, that’s worth doing. That is something that reassures them that leadership is on top of it.
Jeff Gorter: [00:18:20] Because, again, that’s one of the things that clearly has typified this prolonged, slow moving disaster is that, you know, almost no two days are the same. And yet there’s still this emotional sense of Groundhog Day of, “What? It’s still here? We’re still talking about this.” And so, yeah, for leadership to not fall into the trap of thinking, “Oh. They don’t want to hear any more updates.” No, keep doing it. It’s essential.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:18:52] Great. And, obviously, for 9/11 this is a milestone anniversary, so looking at milestone anniversaries, you know, some employees may have or may experience kind of a reaction or, like, a triggering effect to that. And just how an employee handles the disruption when it’s happening, it’s all different in terms of the different levels of resilience and how people kind of process trauma. From your experience, you know, what should an employer be looking at so that they can show support and care knowing that with an anniversary like the 20 year anniversary everyone’s going to kind of approach it differently?
Jeff Gorter: [00:19:37] Yeah. No, that’s a great question. I mean, there were some organizations, obviously those in the New York area or Pennsylvania or in D.C. that were directly impacted. But I think it would be a mistake for a business leader to assume that, “Well, I don’t think any of my people were involved. I don’t need to pay attention to that. I don’t need to mention that.” In the 20 years people have moved, people have relocated, people have taken different jobs. People who were children at that point, who may have lost a loved one at that time, have grown up, moved, taken on new jobs. Again, it would be a mistake to think, “Oh, it’s so far back, we don’t really need to worry about it.” This is a significant day.
Jeff Gorter: [00:20:21] And so, for an employer, I think it’s important for them to acknowledge the solemnity of this day, the power of this day itself, and to recognize that employees may have some challenges with it. Not everybody. Not that they have to. But some may. And so, as a leader, getting out ahead of that and simply recognizing and acknowledging that lets them know that you get it, that you understand that this day is different from other days. It has significance, which helps those employees to feel understood and validated, not isolated and alone as if something is broken or wrong with them.
Jeff Gorter: [00:21:02] And so, it’s important, too, one of the ways that an employer can do that is to remind their employee of the wide range of resources that they have. Again, the behavioral health support, either onsite or virtually, as we’ve talked about before, should they choose to use it. So, for them, again, highlighting what their EAP can do or other groups. In most cases, people just want to be able to share their experiences. And anniversaries are times where we talk about it, because that helps us when we talk about it. It helps us feel less alone. It feels connected. We feel like we’re part of something. They may or may not want to talk about it, but it’s important for a leader to create this safe space for people to do that, to be able to talk about it.
Jeff Gorter: [00:21:54] Because I think one of the things that I am sure once we get past COVID, we’re going to do this. But one of the things that happened during 9/11, if we look back on it, all of us constructed a narrative. A story of where we were when it happened. What happened next? How did it impact us? Where are we now? We developed a story. That’s human nature. It’s how we make peace with it. It’s how we wrap our minds around it. This narrative is where we begin to constrain it as a chapter in our lives. An important chapter, a significant chapter, but not the only chapter in our lives. Things happen to be for that. Things have happened since that.
Jeff Gorter: [00:22:39] And so, being able to talk about it in that narrative sense, as if it’s a chapter helps to, again, feel a sense of control. And I begin to view myself, not as a victim, as if it’s still going on today, but more as a survivor or perhaps even a thriver. Here’s how I grew from this. Here’s how I’m different because of that. Here’s where I learned some things that are important.
Jeff Gorter: [00:23:07] So, being at work on the day of an anniversary, I think is beneficial to employees impacted by any major disruptive event because, again, there’s surprising power in the mundane, comfort in the normal. I want to be around something that feels supportive and and constrained. And going about their everyday lives helps a sense of control, helps them get through that day, and it helps them to have a balanced perspective on the significance of the past. The reality of this present. And the hope for the future. We will move to the next chapter as it were.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:23:49] Great. So, if a leader were starting a conversation like that with their employees – you know, because I love that concept of creating kind of this, like, open area. This comforting, you know, feeling that it’s okay to be transparent in how you feel about that – if you were going to provide a conversation starter for how a leader could set that tone and set that stage for that conversation, how would you advise them to speak to kind of get that conversation moving?
Jeff Gorter: [00:24:25] So, I think, you know, a generalized statement to begin with saying, “As we approach this anniversary, we recognize the power it has for us as a nation, for many of us as individuals. We want to acknowledge that and here’s the things we’re going to do.” And maybe that, again, if they are aware of folks who were survivors or who had a closer context, or it is part of our organizational history that our company was impacted by that day, then I think it would be a very wise idea to have onsite or virtual counselors available to be able to provide immediate, tangible, I could point down the hall and I can see that person if I want to go talk to them, I know they’re there. That’s an immediate thing that they can do.
Jeff Gorter: [00:25:14] The other is to remind them of other resources that they may have. Their employee assistance program, 24-7 hotline that is offered. To simply say at the point of the towers collapsing, many organizations I’m aware of will have a moment of silence at the moment, perhaps, when the first plane struck the building. They will do that, and that is, again, a way of honoring the solemnity of it, a way of acknowledging the reality of it, and just simply let your employees know, “Okay. We get this. We’re taking it seriously. This means something to us. And we’re doing some things to acknowledge that.”
Jeff Gorter: [00:26:01] Other organizations may say, “You know what? Given this day -” maybe even something simple like saying “- we’re having lunch brought in as just a way to acknowledge and provide a communal opportunity for us to get together and share that experience.” You know, depending on the the structure of your work site, that is a pretty low cost way to affirm to your employee group because they will talk about that afterwards. “Wow. Our company got it and they did something substantial to help us.”
Jamie Gassmann: [00:26:44] Great advice. So, we’re going to take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor. Workplace MVP is sponsored by R3 Continuum. R3 Continuum is a global leader in providing expert, reliable, responsive, and tailored behavioral health, crisis, and security solutions to promote workplace wellbeing and performance in the face of an ever changing and often unpredictable world. Learn more about how R3 Continuum can tailor a solution for your organization’s unique challenges by visiting r3c.com today.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:27:19] So, some feel, Jeff – and we kind of mentioned it in the introduction too – that 9/11 and COVID-19 pandemic are tragic bookend events and have various similarities in their impact on employees, you know, with mental health concerns, substance abuse, sleeping concerns. Can you share your perspective on this? You know, are there similarities? And if so, what would you say are the similarities? And do you have any context to why that might be the case?
Jeff Gorter: [00:27:56] I think that’s a great observation, because I think on the surface, it would be easy to say, “Well, my goodness. I can hardly think of two completely disparate type of events.” I mean, they are radically different and they’re separated by 20 years. But if we did that, we lose tapping into the accumulated wisdom and knowledge that we gained from how we adapted to 9/11, and how that has sustained us through so many other crises that have happened in between, and how that can inform and shape what we’re doing now in response to the current crisis.
Jeff Gorter: [00:28:35] So, some areas of similarities that occurred to me is that, you know, both 9/11 and COVID changed everything about how business is conducted. I mean, if we think back on it, I think one when cheap and easy example is – for those of us of a certain age – can you remember when you didn’t have to take your shoes off at the airport to get on a plane? You know, it changed how we travel. It changed what we define as safety. It changed what security protocols with baggage. It changed even the work environment itself, where we work, who we work with, how we work has been changed.
Jeff Gorter: [00:29:18] There was radical change after 9/11 and the same thing has been happening after COVID, that it’s created changes that are going to be likely permanent as a way of adaptations to that. And so, that’s one area of similarity in that everything’s changed.
Jeff Gorter: [00:29:38] Another is that both 9/11 and COVID-19 have required a massive expenditure of time, money, resources by companies to respond to it, to adapt to it, to restore some sense of functional operations and confidence. That happened after 9/11. The same thing happened after COVID-19. I defy you to find a company that says, “You know what? We are pretty much operating exactly the same way with exactly the same plans, policies, and procedures as we did before those events. You know, it really didn’t touch us. It didn’t change us.”
Jeff Gorter: [00:30:19] I mean, to the contrary and particularly in the midst of the pandemic, we had to initiate almost immediate changes. As I said earlier, things like we’re operating from home now where many of us who never envisioned ourselves as remote workers now find themselves with their library kingdom. And other things in which we’ve changed. We’ve made so many initiatives in response to this to try to enhance the safety while returning to operations. And we don’t know the effectiveness of many of these until later. You know, we have to make the change. We’re going to do it.
Jeff Gorter: [00:31:07] But many leaders and workers alike are saying, “Well, did we do the right thing? Did we make the right decision? Are we doing enough? Or did we do too much?” So, I mean, these questions were the same that’s an echo of 9/11. We said the same kinds of things. We wrestled with the same sort of initiatives then as we do now in determining what was the right calibration. It’s only in hindsight that we’ll know. But it did require massive amounts of time and energy.
Jeff Gorter: [00:31:41] And then, the third thing, and I think this is probably the one that is most pertinent to me as a behavioral health professional, is that, both of these events had a global emotional impact unlike any other event. And if we think back over the last 20 years, there have been many major events. We are only a few days away from the 16th anniversary of Hurricane Katrina. There have been multiple large scale mass shootings at schools or in other public locations. There has been a breach of the U.S. Capitol.
Jeff Gorter: [00:32:21] All of these things are major defining events, yet none of them had the emotional charge on a global scale. There’s almost no person on the planet that has not been aware of those events that was not emotionally moved by those events. There was a universal sense of shock, vulnerability, fear that defined 9/11 and was very similar to the pandemic. And I think, you know, those other tragedies that I said were huge and highly visible, but they were constrained to areas, regions, cities, location. Whereas, 9/11 led the whole world to know things are different and the same has happened with COVID-19.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:33:18] Interesting. And you you mentioned in a previous conversation with us and you may have have kind of touched on it a little bit here that events like 9/11 and COVID-19 pandemic are described as seminal moments that impact an individual’s view on life, which can lead to them re-evaluating what’s important. So, can you elaborate a little bit more on that?
Jeff Gorter: [00:33:45] Yeah. I think, the easiest way to understand, seminal moments are those milestones, those tragic milestones in the story of your life. As I talked about, they are unavoidable reference points in the story of our lives. You know, we will say, “Was that pre-COVID or post-COVID?” It’s the kind of thing that you immediately will recognize and you reference events as almost, you know, magnetically rotating around that.
Jeff Gorter: [00:34:19] But what I think is so important about that is that the events are the events. The events themselves are only the beginning. I think the way we responded to them is much more compelling and is much more reflective of that personal agency, that personal story that we construct, that narrative that we build following these events. So, the event happened, but the story of how we endured, what we had to let go of, where we grew, how we changed, how we adapted, how we found moments of happiness or lightness even in the midst, those kinds of things are lived experiences that I think hold tremendous value.
Jeff Gorter: [00:35:09] You know, I think that in older days that might have been called wisdom. That’s the kind of thing that you look back on and you say, “You know, I would never want to go through that again. But I learned some things about myself, about my company, about my community, or about my country.” And that is important knowledge to be able to have and to incorporate. I know that we all want to hurry by. We all want to get to the happy ending. Can I just flip through the book? Can I fast forward to the end of the show here and see the happy ending?
Jeff Gorter: [00:35:44] But the reality is, if we let this moment pass by without intentionally purposely reflecting on what this means to me as a person, what this means to me as a leader, what this means to my company, what it means to my team, I think we lose something of incredible value.
Jeff Gorter: [00:36:05] And so, again, especially with something that has been as prolonged as the pandemic, we’re just like, “Well, I just need to get through it. I just need to get through another day. I just need to keep rolling.” But I think savvy leaders have found that stepping back, intentionally reflecting on this, and what lessons I learned from it, it positions them for better success in the future when they get past this.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:36:38] Right. So, almost like attributing meaning to the event and how that is having an impact on your life, because it could be both in positive ways and negative ways. So, there could be a couple of different things that are learned from that, both professionally and personally when you’re looking at it, would you agree?
Jeff Gorter: [00:36:57] Exactly. I think, again, attributing meaning to it as part of that narrative making. It’s human nature that when we go through an event that has that kind of power that impacts us like a physical blow, we try and make sense of it. We try and reassert a sense of control. And we typically go – sorry. I’m going to go a little Psych 101 here for a moment – in one of two directions. Meaning, attribution means we either determine internal disposition, what does this say about me? About how I handle it? What does this reveal about me? Or external situation, what does this say about my context, my company, my community, my country? So, we’re going to assign a meaning to this.
Jeff Gorter: [00:37:51] And, again, the event is the event. So, the pain has occurred, the trauma has occurred, the tragedy has occurred. That doesn’t change. But my meaning will greatly influence my trajectory afterwards. And so, by that, there is a critical inflection point. There is a moment. A moment where almost all of us, whether we’re conscious of it or not, where we look at this and we say, “Wow. What I just went through, what does this say about me?”
Jeff Gorter: [00:38:24] Do I look at this and do I say, “You know what? I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. But, man, I’m just glad I got through that.” Or do I say, “You know what? This just proves once again that I am the unluckiest guy on the face of the Earth. You know, I am a soccer ball on the field of life. I just get kicked around all the time.” Do I view this as, “Wow. I am so happy to be alive following this. I am going to go home and kiss my partner and hug the kids. And I’m going to enjoy life in a different way. I’m going to value life.” Do I say that? Or do I say, “What’s the point? Why even try? Stuff like this happens. I told you it’s just one bad thing after another.”
Jeff Gorter: [00:39:13] And you know why? The event is the event. My interpretation is going to determine whether I move ahead with resilience and in a positive way. Or that I add on to the sense of negativity, the sense of pathology, something must be broken. And, you know, do I view this as, “Okay. These powerful emotions I’m experiencing are normal, understandable reactions to this really powerful event.” That makes sense. Or do I say, “I’m not handling it right. I must be doing it poorly. I think I’m not smart enough or strong enough. Maybe I’m broken. Maybe I’m losing it.” You know, the event is the event, but my interpretation is going to determine where I go from. And so, I think that how we attribute meaning is going to help us move forward.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:40:09] Interesting. And so, you know, looking at kind of moving forward and looking at leaders that might be listening in on this conversation, if you are going to give them a take away from this show, something that you wanted to leave them with that can help them to effectively support their employees when disruption occurs, what would you share with them? What would you want them to take with them?
Jeff Gorter: [00:40:35] So, I’m going to share not something that originates from me, but I want to share a quote from one of my favorite poets, Maya Angelou. She had a quote that I think I have reflected on and it has helped me in so many situations when responding to a large scale event. And the quote is, “They will never remember what you said. They will never remember what you did. But they will always remember how you made them feel.” And I find that so incredible.
Jeff Gorter: [00:41:09] Because as a leader, I urge you, I encourage you to help your team feel cared for, help them feel supported, help them feel valued. And when you do that, they will surprise you. They will inspire you. They will lift up your company in ways you can’t do alone. So, it’s not about having the magic words. It’s not about following exactly the ten point plan. It’s about keeping in mind that my goal is they will remember how I made them feel. Make them feel cared for and valued, and they will take care of the rest.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:41:49] Fantastic. So, looking out over your career, I’m always curious to ask my guests, what are you most proud of when you look out over your career?
Jeff Gorter: [00:42:01] Well, that is a challenging question. The things that are obvious particularly in the context of our conversation, being able to have responded directly to 9/11, having had an influence here during COVID, or responding to the Vegas shootings, or going to D.C., all of those events that I have done. But I don’t want to be distracted by, let’s say, the bright, shiny, big is the only thing that matters.
Jeff Gorter: [00:42:40] I think probably what I’m most proud of is that I consider it a humbling honor to be able to walk alongside somebody in what might have been one of the worst days of their lives. And it doesn’t matter whether it was a mass event that rocks the globe or whether it was the loss of a friend and co-worker who they had really come to depend on. Being able to be there and help take a little bit off their shoulders, it’s a day well spent. And so, it’s each one of those times that I’ve had an opportunity to speak into somebody’s life.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:43:20] Wonderful. So, with our listeners, if they wanted to get a hold of you, Jeff, how would they be able to do that?
Jeff Gorter: [00:43:28] Well, as I mentioned, I am with R3 Continuum, and so, certainly, being able to access that through our website. But also being able to respond to me directly, if you’d like to send an email to jeff.gorter@r3c.com, jeff.gorter@r3c.com. And I’d certainly be willing to respond to any questions.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:44:00] Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Jeff. It was very moving, great information shared, very powerful stories, and advice. And we really do appreciate you. And thank you for letting us celebrate you on the show today. And hearing the experiences you had, the work you did in supporting workplaces at 9/11, and even with COVID, and other events within our history. So, thank you so much for being a part of our show.
Jeff Gorter: [00:44:31] Thank you so much, Jamie. And I urge all your listeners, be well, be safe.
Jamie Gassmann: [00:44:38] Great. And we also want to thank our show sponsor, R3 Continuum, for supporting the Workplace MVP podcast. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. If you’ve not already done so, make sure to subscribe so you get our most recent episodes and other resources. You can also follow our show on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter at Workplace MVP. If you are a workplace MVP or know someone who is, we want to know. Email us at info@workplace-mvp.com. Thank you all for joining us. And have a great rest of your day.
