Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have executive and business coach with the A List Coach, Laura Berman Fortgang. Welcome.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Thank you Lee.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about your practice, how you serving folks?

Laura Berman Fortgang: Yeah, I mean, I’ve been a coach for 32 years, which is hard to believe. And I split my time between working with executives to on their executive presence and their leadership style and working with small business owners, mostly service based business owners like coaches and consultants growing their impact, their visibility, and making more money.

Lee Kantor: So what how did you get into coaching? Sounds like you were there kind of in the early days?

Laura Berman Fortgang: Yes. I was definitely an early adopter. Adopter, adopter, and one of the founding members of the International Coaching Federation, which is the largest body that certifies coaches. I was a client first, an old mentor of mine. I’ve been an actress and I was a waitress. Of course, they go together, and I thought of an old acting mentor of mine as I was doubting my ability to sustain an acting career. And he’s like, oh, I become a coach. Maybe I can help you figure out what else you want to do. And I signed on, and two years later, I’m like, I want to do what you do. And that was one of the first people trained. And like I said, one of the founding members of the biggest organization that credentials coaches. So it’s been amazing to see this profession be, you know, a little infant where people are like, what team? What sport? You’re a soccer mom. What are you talking about to now? There’s so many coaches, you don’t know what to do.

Lee Kantor: Now at the beginning of coaching, was it primarily kind of remedial where you were like trying to you’re you’re brought in to fix? Bob or was it kind of aspirational where that was a perk for the senior leadership? Like how was it positioned in the early days?

Laura Berman Fortgang: Well, in the early days, there was, you know, there’s always not always, but there’s been organizational psychologists and corporations for a long time, right? So they usually work with the top C-suite executives. So when, when personal coaching came about and it started infiltrating the corporate market, you know, I quickly learned that I didn’t want to work with remedial situations because most of the time those people were not very coachable. So I quickly found my way to helping people get promoted and to work on their leadership style. So, you know, and I mostly wasn’t contracted by the corporation as much as finding individuals who then got their company to pay for the coaching. So it was a very individualized goal that the people had, right? It didn’t come from their organization most of the time.

Lee Kantor: So were those high achievers kind of looking towards maybe, like you mentioned, sports, like a lot of sports performers at the highest levels have a coach like that’s not even a thing. Like of course they have a coach that they wouldn’t even consider not having a coach. Were executives seeing that and saying, okay, maybe this is something I should, you know, bring on board to help me kind of grow my career.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Yeah, that that really was a useful analogy. Like I used that analogy as a marketing tool. You know, even Tiger Woods has a coach, you know, Michael Jordan has a coach. All these, you know, huge athletes need an outside eye on their performance. And that was, you know, a pivotal argument in the beginning. Yeah. And some people who really invested in their learning and in their development were open to having a coach, even though they’d never heard of it.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you as the industry matured. And now, like you mentioned, there’s lots of coaches now and there’s a variety of coaches and a variety of specialties. What challenges do they have in terms of now differentiating themselves amongst other coaches? And also, um, kind of, I guess, broadening the base of coaching clients.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Yeah. I mean, where, you know, there was a time where you could be a generalist as a coach. You know, you could just be like, if you need to get from A to B, I can help you, you know? But now in a saturated market, it helps to have a more distinct niche and be very results oriented, you know? So I specifically work with, with, um, executives on what we call now, as in the lingo executive presence, you know, like their, how they show up as a leader, um, how they handle their time, etc.. And I’ll with my small business owners, I specifically help them with using speaking as a way to grow their business. So the more specialized you are, the easier it is to maneuver the crowded marketplace. You know, when you kind of can do everything. It doesn’t bode well for making sales.

Lee Kantor: So how important is it to kind of hone in on a specialty? Is that something you do at the beginning, or is that something that just evolves over time?

Laura Berman Fortgang: That’s a great question because, you know, most people recognize that, oh, you know, I have to find my niche to stand out in the crowded marketplace. But the truth is, there is such a thing as niching too early. You know, like, um, if you find yourself in a conundrum, like, I don’t know what I want my specialty to be, you know, I’ll use the words that my mentor said to me, like when you’ve coached 100 people and you’ll know what you’re doing, you know, so just get out and coach. It’s okay to be a generalist in the beginning. Um, you need to find your way. And I do, I do firmly believe that your niche finds you. Like you just start to find that there’s a particular type of person you like working with, or a particular type of scenario that you love to repeat over and over and over again. So, um, you know, if you, if anyone’s listening and they’re just starting out, then take your time and become a great coach and your niece will find you.

Lee Kantor: Now, with your background being a performer, did you gravitate towards the entertainment industry? Were you finding opportunities in that space because you were familiar with it and comfortable with it?

Laura Berman Fortgang: That funny enough, like I started out coaching other performers, but you know, they didn’t have the budget to put this, you know, put towards their development. So I quickly moved towards, uh, corporate and individuals who did invest in themselves. And I didn’t get back to the entertainment world until much later in my career where I’ve coached, um, for the Sundance Film Festival Institute and for, um, Ted fellows, you know, and other creative people that have come my way. But that was something I did later. It wasn’t where I started out. Funny enough.

Lee Kantor: When you’re coaching a creative, is there a different kind of way of going about that. Um, as opposed to somebody that has a small business or is in a corporate setting.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Yeah. I mean, I find that the more creative and there are, there are creative people in corporate settings as well and in their small businesses, but the more creative somebody is, the more ideas they have. And the tough part is trying to get all those ideas to come to fruition. So one of the biggest challenges with highly creative people is helping them kind of categorize their ideas so that they won’t be lost, because the biggest fear is that you’re going to lose an idea, you know, that, you know, you’re not going to get to all of them. So really helping people prioritize, you know, what’s the idea that can get done? And what’s the idea that needs to be filed away? And staying on task, you know, is really important for the highly creative person.

Lee Kantor: So how do you help them do that? What are some exercises a person could do to kind of, um, prioritize?

Laura Berman Fortgang: Well, coaching in itself in, in the format that it is, where you’re talking to people weekly or every other week, you create an accountability just just by the structure. But in terms of exercises or actual things to do, um, you know, I have people create, if they’re visual, I help them create a visual so that they’re tracking their projects and they know, you know, what gets needs to get done at certain times because you’re going to carry multiple projects if you’re creative. That’s just there’s almost no way around it. Um, but making sure that you’re touching each project and you’re making the connections and you’re doing the things that you need to do. So it’s really a matter of constant prioritization and organization, which isn’t always easy for creative people.

Lee Kantor: Now you mentioned accountability. Um, how would you rank that in terms of, um, kind of the main deliverables of a coach?

Laura Berman Fortgang: I mean, it’s really baked into it because of that structure that I’m talking about. You know, when, when someone starts going three weeks or four weeks in between sessions, it all derails. I mean that in my 30 some odd years, I can tell you that, that people need that weekly or every other week accountability. Um, so kind of baked into the pie and just in terms of the structure of coaching, but you know, documenting things, having visuals, keeping Excel spreadsheets, um, you know, I’m a very visual person and I tend to attract people that are like that too. So we tend to rely on visuals to keep all the wheels spinning.

Lee Kantor: Now, you mentioned being around at the founding of the ICF. Did you have a methodology that you were leaning on when you started, or was this something you just kind of figured out as you went along?

Laura Berman Fortgang: Um, no. Well, I, you know, I had the methodology of how I was taught to coach, you know, and, and I don’t know if I was ever taught this specifically, but for me, I look at it like the arc of a play, you know, like there’s a beginning, a middle and an end of where I start with people, you know, what are the things that are, what are the things that they want to accomplish, what are the things that are in the way of those things? And we have to clear up what’s in the way before we can get to the things you really want. Um, that could be relationships, that could be attitudes of certain people, that could be boundaries around your time. So there was sort of a methodology that I intuitively followed, but I didn’t, um, create a core methodology until, let’s say, you know, at least a decade into my coaching practice and it came out of 911, like I, my phone went dead for a couple of days and then my phone was ringing off the hook. And I had people saying, you know, life is too short. Anything can happen. I need to put the back burner dream and put it on the front burner. And I started working with people in only 90 day segments. Like that’s all the time I could give them because if you remember all my, all the travel had stopped, the airplanes weren’t going, the conferences were canceled. And at that point, I was speaking a lot.

Laura Berman Fortgang: I was, um, you know, promoting my books and I was out in the world and I said, I can give you 90 days. Let’s figure out what you want to do with your life. And over the course of a few months, I realized, oh my gosh, I have a method to how I do this. And so I documented that method and that became my third book. Now what, 90 Days to a New Life Direction. And that really carried me for like, that’s like 20 years, at least of my 30 some odd years in coaching was helping people figure out what to do with their life, with, with their careers and their maybe the next step after being the executive. So funny enough, um, you know, I was kind of working intuitively with a method, but then created a solid method from my experience, which I tested on beta testing groups and made sure that it worked before we put it in a book. Um, and I do now very much encourage the coaches that I work with to have their own methodology because it’s another way to stand out in the marketplace. You know, like there are lots of executive coaches and career coaches, but not everyone has the now what method right to career clarity. So that puts me in a category of one. And so I’m always encouraging people to come up with their own method and brand that and run with it.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, when you develop that method, did you, did you consider a path of saying, okay, now I’m going to certify now what certified coaches like, because that seems to be something that I’m seeing out there.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Yes. That was a definite revenue stream for me. I trained over 500 coaches around the world to use the now what methodology? And, um, you know, that’s been a solid trajectory for a while having and then I managed those coaches and helped them, you know, stay on top of their training and, um, you know, perpetuate the now what brand.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, when you’re seeing kind of the coaching profession, uh, mature, do you find that because there are so many certifications and so many credentials a coach can get, they get into kind of a. It’s almost like a. They’re collectors of different credentials. And it’s, you know, it’s almost like they’re delaying doing the work of. Let me get more clients and build up a practice. And they’re just collecting credentials.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Oh, I see that all the time. You know, when I get people in my A-list coach program, they’re like, well, you know, I’m finishing up this certification or that certification. I don’t want to get started until I do that. And it is an avoidance technique. It’s, it’s saying, you know, I’m not ready. Um, you’re ready at any point because you’re always going to attract clients one step behind you, you know. So you will stay current. Um, and yeah, I think, I mean, hats off to people that have the patience to study and collect credentials, but at the same time, you’ve got to ask yourself, are you avoiding the hard work of having those conversations with people? It’s the same thing with having like, you know, back in the day when we had paper brochures, right, or people waiting to do their website. It’s just a thing to hide behind and not have the conversation with people. And coaching is all about conversations. You have to have a conversation with somebody to know if they’re going to be a client, and for them to know if they can trust you to be their coach. Um, and that’s the scary part for most coaches. I mean, the ICF has a statistic that is what made me turn around and start helping other coaches that 82% of coaches close up their doors within two years. Um, 82%. That means only 18% of people who get some kind of training and start a business in this end up succeeding. That’s abysmal.

Lee Kantor: So they just get like normal jobs. Like where do they all go?

Laura Berman Fortgang: Yeah, I guess they.

Laura Berman Fortgang: I mean, it’s hard to get jobs as a coach. I mean, a lot of some companies now have internal coaches of course. And you know, you’ve got your better up and, um, and Ezra and some of the other places that hire coaches if you’re lucky enough to get in there. Um, but you know, people either go back to a job or do something else. You know, just use their coaching skills as part of who they are and not as their business.

Lee Kantor: So you mentioned this a list coach program. Is that a different methodology than your now what methodology or is that kind of.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Yeah. So after 25 years with the Na1 methodology, I have a new methodology to help people, um, bring their coaching business into a money making opportunity and not just a, you know, a shingle that makes, you know, money and you collect certifications for.

Lee Kantor: Now what percent? Uh, or maybe you don’t know this, but being in the industry so long, maybe you have a feel for it. Like what kind of is the percentage of like, say, coaches making six figures, coaches making 50 grand or coaches not making anything?

Laura Berman Fortgang: Well, I mean, I do I keep these statistics on my desk, believe it or not. Um. The average coach, according to the ICF, makes $67,800. So there’s not a lot of six figure coaches. You definitely have some seven figure people out there that are excellent marketers. Um, and they’re, and the thing is that most people look at this as like a discipline that you do one on one, right? So unless you’re working, you know, high up in corporate arenas where you’re, you know, like, um, Marshall Goldsmith, I think charges 250,000 a year or more at this point. Um, you know, Anthony Robbins, it’s a, it’s a million a year to work with him. Maybe it’s more by now. But anyway, most people, when they, they look at this as a one on one discipline. And it really isn’t a purist form. You’re going to do it one on one, but when you’re just trading dollars for hours, hours for dollars, there’s limits on how much money you can make, right? And you’re constantly looking for clients. So, um, the people that really take their earnings into the stratosphere are diversifying and scaling. You know, they’ve got group programs. They might do certifications for coaches. They, um, they charge quite a premium to work with them one on one. So when you see people saying, you know, they make millions of dollars per year, they’ve, they’ve turned that into programs like the A+ coach.

Lee Kantor: And so that’s kind of leveraging a brand. It’s leveraging, uh, kind of the personality and the skills and background of the coach to create additional revenue streams that are outside the actual one on one coaching. That’s just one element of a kind of a portfolio of services.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Yeah. And even the people who, you know, this is keeping my eye on the surveys that the ICF does. Even the people who say they make a living as a coach, they, they have coaching at the core of their offering, but they might also do training or they might also do speaking, or they might also, you know, make money from publications that they put out. So it really does require this entrepreneurship gene. And like in the coach program, that’s really what I’m teaching people is how to be an entrepreneur, um, how to think like an entrepreneur. That’s where the methodology comes in because, um, you know, like I said, most people are thinking, you know, find those 1Z2Z clients and trade hours dollars for hours and you really have to think about it, um, in a much broader context and in a way that, you know, most coaches don’t love that they have to market 80% of the time. You’re really coaching like 20% of the time in marketing 80% of the time. Um, and that’s where it falls apart for a lot of people.

Lee Kantor: Right? That’s something else I’ve noticed with coaches, they tend to be it’s kind of feast or famine in the sense that they get a client or they get a, you know, a speaking opportunity, and then they’re all in on that and everything else kind of falls by the wayside. And then all of a sudden it’s over, and then they’re just rebuilding a whole marketing plan from scratch from that point.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Yeah. Like, you know, they take their.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Foot off the gas and was like, oh, I have a client. I have to do anything for a while. And then when that client’s gone, then they have to start all over again. So it is really a matter of creating a system where you’re, you’re hopefully joyously marketing, you know, that you don’t hate it and that you’re marketing all the time, you know, and it’s not just posting on social media. That’s another mistake that people make. It’s like, oh, I post all the time, why don’t I get clients from it? Because that I don’t think that’s the most effective way to get clients. I actually think that getting out and speaking is the most effective way to get clients. Um, because if you think about it, when you’re, even if you’re only speaking to 50 people in a room, you’ve got, you know, at least ten hot prospects in there, right? So it’s a much faster way to be meeting people and to getting potential clients in the door.

Lee Kantor: And, and your position better because you’re there to speak. You must be somebody who’s done something or else they wouldn’t have invited you.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Right? It already. It already establishes your authority. Um, and then you build that credibility by what you have to say in your talk, and you’ve got people thinking, wow, what if I applied that? Or what if I worked with them? So I that is how I grew my business. Like unconsciously. That was just like the easiest thing for me to do. Having been a performer, it wasn’t scary for me to stand up on stage. Um, but it still stands as far as I’m concerned, as the fastest way to bring clients into a coaching business.

Lee Kantor: So for folks who are interested in the A-list coach program, what are some of the components of that? You mentioned methodology earlier? Is that something you helped them with to help them create their own methodology?

Laura Berman Fortgang: Yeah, I have four pillars that I think hold up what we’re talking about. One is messaging. Most coaches can’t even tell you what they do in one sentence. Um, so messaging methodology, marketing, what are you going to be your marketing activities and then managing, managing your business, delegating appropriately and managing yourself. I mean, if you want a personal development course, start a business, you’ll be up against your own demons all the time.

Lee Kantor: But. But hire a coach. Because then at least you’ll have somebody helping you work on these things as you go.

Laura Berman Fortgang: I would agree with that.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more about the A-list coach program or get Ahold of you, read some of your books, what is the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Laura Berman Fortgang: Um, the A-list coach.com. You can find me there and it’ll connect you back to my other websites if you need me, my laura.com. So the A-list coach.com or laura.com and we will connect.

Lee Kantor: Well, Laura, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Laura Berman Fortgang: Thank you Lee.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.