Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Houston, Texas. It’s time for Houston Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Trisha Stetzel: Hello, Houston. Trisha Stetzel here bringing you another episode of Houston Business Radio. It’s my pleasure to introduce you to my guest today, Amos Schwartzfarb, a legendary startup author, operator, author, investor, athlete, and advisor whose career has shaped some of the most successful early stage companies in the country. Amos started his journey packing boxes at Shoreline Mountain Project, helping convert it into one of the earliest e-commerce companies, kicking off a 25 plus year career across seven startups including Hotjobs, acquired by Yahoo! Work.com. Business.com. Black Locust acquired by Home Depot and even more. In 2015, he shifted to the investor side as managing director of Techstars Austin, where he invested in more than 70 seed stage startups across Texas and became one of the region’s most respected early stage investors. He is also the best selling author of Sell More, Faster and Lovers, which we’re going to talk about. Known for giving founders the frameworks, metrics and mindset to build repeatable, scalable businesses. Today, as CEO and advisor at Retro Cause, he continues advising founders while spending his free time mountain biking, rock climbing, and cooking with his family. Amos, welcome to the show.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Thank you so much for having me, Tricia, and what a fantastic introduction.

Trisha Stetzel: Oh, I’m so glad that you said that I spend time on this Because, Amos, the truth is, we don’t do that for ourselves. So I like to give that as my gift to you.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Oh my gosh, it’s so true. If you would have asked me to do that, I would have glossed over all of it and just said, yeah, I worked with startups a couple of times and we did some cool stuff.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay, so I avoided a word and we’re going to talk about it before we even talk about you. Okay. Consiglieri as I as I think it’s pronounced.

Amos Schwartzfarb: So yeah.

Trisha Stetzel: Tell us what in the world that word means. Amos, before we get into talking.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Yeah. So maybe maybe the way that I’ll describe, I’m not sure it’s the right word to use. It’s where it comes from. Is actually, I don’t know, maybe all over the world, but at least I’m from North Jersey, from the North Jersey Mafia. And but the reason I use that word is because what I do with my clients, I’m not really a CEO coach. I think when people think of a CEO coach, they think of someone who’s going to help with organizational skills or some soft skills. And that’s not really what I do, and I haven’t figured out the right way to talk about it, even though I’ve been doing this for so many years. So what I do with my clients is I’m really I work directly with CEOs and I am the the person that they come to and talk to and trust more than anyone, more than their co-founder, more than their board. And we and we do everything. I am their trusted source. Whether it’s, um, a problem with an executive managing the board, fundraising, building out an executive team, figuring out the right people, whether it’s problems at home because it affects their business. It’s literally everything. And so I use that word because that is essentially what it is to the Mafia boss. Um, so I hope I’m not insulting anyone out there, but that really is the role that I play with my clients.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, I love that. And I’m I’m glad that we started there because advisor doesn’t do what you that word doesn’t do what you do for your clients justice. And I appreciate that. You have a complicated word.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It’s. If nothing else, it sparks a good conversation.

Trisha Stetzel: It does? Yeah, absolutely.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay, so tell us a little bit more about Amos.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Oh, gosh. Uh, here, I’ll do this. I, I have been noodling on this thought for a long time, but a lot lately. And I actually wrote something down yesterday, and I don’t know what I’m going to do with it yet. Um. Which is, I don’t know. I think this goes for all people, but I’m going to just speak of it as if I’m the only person with this challenge in the world, even though I know that I’m not. I don’t know how to speak about just Amos, because there’s the just Amos, the expectation of what have I done professionally? And that’s probably what most people want to talk about here. There’s the Amos that was, um, I mean, I’ll pat myself on the back. An elite athlete for many, many years in multiple sports. There’s the Amos that’s an author. There’s Amos that is a musician and is in the middle of dropping an album and has a new band. There’s the Amos that is a dad, and it is really the thing that is most important to me in the world. Um, there’s the Amos that’s from new Jersey and the people that I grew up with that know me one way. And then there’s the folks here in Austin that have no idea who that dude is. Um, so I don’t know, like, that’s me and a little bit more.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay. No, I love it because it really gives us some insight into the things that make you tick. Yeah, right. It really does. Yeah. Okay.

Amos Schwartzfarb: You know, here’s what I might say as you think. Like, here’s the here’s the Amos. Rather than trying to identify myself in a in a box or several boxes. I think who I am is a person that has been really fortunate that I had an upbringing, that that gave me the opportunity to keep a really open mind and do a lot of cool stuff. And and not that I haven’t been afraid a lot in my life. I’ve been afraid a lot in my life. But fear has never stopped me from doing anything. At a young age till now. And so the Amos that I like to think about is the person who brings to the world, um, hopefully inspiration for other people to do the same, to not let the fears get in the way of their dreams.

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm. Well I love that. That is fantastic.

Amos Schwartzfarb: I stole that, I stole that from the no company no fear. They’re probably out of business 20 years but I. But I did love it.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay I’m glad we noodled around on this because something really profound came out. Thank you for sharing that. Uh, can we talk about mindset, uh, a little bit in the, in the, in the business place. So I think I’ve heard you say business is math mindset is the multiplier. So what do founders get wrong when we’re looking at that equation?

Amos Schwartzfarb: Yeah. Um, maybe a little context here on the business is math part. And this is this is me projecting. I, um, I will start with I’ve always been good at math, and I stopped taking math in 10th grade because I never thought it was important. I think differently now, much differently now. Um, and I was always I’ve always been really creative. I’ve always been a writer. I was a creative writing major in college. Um, and when I, and I was in my early, early years of business, I operated largely on intuition and, and really didn’t put a lot of stock or faith into the importance of understanding metrics and the math of business. And, um, fortunately, I had some good intuition along the way. And also, fortunately, I had a phenomenal mentor and boss at, uh, at a company that, um, Business.com which was acquired, I was acquired into. And then I was an executive there. Um, Who? That not just the CEO, but the CEO and the CEO were so metrics driven. They to me, they are the poster children for what it means to run a really good business. And I and they I will say they beat it out of me to it’s okay to have your intuition, but then how do you back it up with math and that that was back in, you know, almost 20 years ago now.

Amos Schwartzfarb: So I 17, 18 years ago. And so the journey since then, um, and, and maybe the lessons over and over and over again is that. Yeah. Intuition is, is a really important thing to help, like pick up and say what direction should I look at? But knowing whether or not you’re actually heading in that direction is math. And at the end of the day, and as much as like a visionary founder who doesn’t have a financial background does not want to hear this, I being one of them at one point in my life. Um, your business is really nothing more than a than a calculus equation. And and it’s our responsibility as leaders of that organization to figure out, um, what how to make the math work so that your business can work so that you can actually achieve, achieve your vision, and so that, you know, you can step away from the math and change the world in the way that you want, want to change the world.

Trisha Stetzel: All right. So this makes me like, want to talk about mindset because you have experience with more than 70 seed stage startups and probably lots more than, uh, that’s just what I know. Um, people who start businesses, true entrepreneurs want to go open a business doing something that they love. And most of them, at least the ones that I work with, are afraid of the numbers. So how do we shift besides the words that you used, which is your business, is basically a calculus equation. How do we get people to shift the way they think about their businesses from I love underwater basket weaving. I’m afraid of the numbers to this is a business and I need to care about the numbers.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Yeah. Um, I, I feel like there’s a couple of different ways. Like a couple. I have a few different opinions, and some of them are sort of, like, very surfacey like, hey, we can talk about how to, you know, how to look at math as a positive thing versus a negative thing. And, but I actually think it’s it’s much, much, much deeper and probably even outside of my, my, my depth of, uh, teaching, but not outside of my depth of exploring, which is why are you afraid of the numbers? What is it about looking at it as math? Do you feel like you’re going to lose the passion? Do you feel like you don’t understand what the math is supposed to be? And so I think maybe there’s two like like sort of core level things I would think about, which is like under try to understand what it is about the math that you’re reluctant to leaning into, and maybe it’s okay that you don’t lean into it, but understand what that is so you can find someone that can help you do it. Um, and, uh, you know, I think the other thing is which which is this is something that I have, um, I’ve been practicing for the last couple of years with, like, in such intensity.

Amos Schwartzfarb: And it’s it’s it’s amazing. I don’t even know how to explain it to somebody. And it sounds crazy. It will sound crazy to someone who doesn’t believe this. Um, but just the the the there’s an art, I think, to looking at everything and having a different perception. So instead of saying to yourself, the math scares me, or I don’t believe it, or I don’t want to do the math, what if you say, gosh, this math is really fun? And yeah, you’re not going to believe it at first, and you might not believe it for a long time. And not that you’re trying to hypnotize yourself, but you. There’s an opportunity to literally change your perception by trying to find the things in it that could be fun, because guess what? What if you love basket weaving and you love selling baskets, and you get to sell 100,000 baskets instead of 100 baskets because you not only have figured out the greatest basket, but the people who want the greatest basket. And you’re you’re making their lives better. How much more awesome are you going to feel about selling baskets?

Trisha Stetzel: I love that, and and you’re right. You know, the the thoughts that we have, the language that we use eventually become our thoughts and our beliefs. And if we can shift the things that we’re saying to ourselves and we can actually shift the outcome eventually. Yeah, I love that.

Amos Schwartzfarb: I mean, you’re going somewhere like, we can we can take a real left turn here if we want. But like that whole thing of like what we say to ourselves is so important because I do a lot of like mindset work and spiritual work recently too. And the thing that I have come to believe, and this is not my original thought by any stretch, but but I believe this is those thoughts are not actually us. They’re just thoughts. And so when we can learn to detach ourselves from those thoughts and realize, like we can say anything to ourselves, it kind of doesn’t matter. So if we’re going to say something, let’s say the positive thing. Let’s say the thing that gets us what we want, not the thing that doesn’t get us what we want.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay, so I’m going to reel it back in because I don’t know about detached thoughts for the rest of the conversation, but it’s it’s it’s very interesting. And I would love to have you come back because I would like to talk about that. I’m very interested in hearing more, but I want to roll us back to the numbers. Um, metrics. Numbers actually matter when and and a lot of companies may not see that those particularly matter with a product market fit. So what are your thoughts around those metrics early in a business?

Amos Schwartzfarb: Yeah, I love the question. And it is one of the things we talk about in the book lovers a lot. And um, you know, maybe like the quick step backwards is a big reason that, um, Trevor and I decided to write the book lovers was because of exactly the thing we’re talking about, the fear of trying to figure out what are the right numbers. And so the thing we talk about a lot is get them wrong, but get but start doing something. Because as soon as you get that, as soon as you start doing something and you see that they’re wrong, you will want to as a problem solver, as an entrepreneur, inherently in your DNA, you will want to figure out what is right and you’ll get there. And sometimes that there might take a month, and sometimes that there might take ten years. And I’m not exaggerating it. Sometimes it takes a really, really long time. It’s that journey and going back to the mindset like, enjoy the journey. That’s why you’re doing this, right? Yes. You want the end result. You know, one gets the end result without the journey. So let’s let’s figure out the math along the way so that that’s that’s what we profess in the book over and over again, which is like, here are some frameworks to help you start to figure out what the math is. And you’re going to get it wrong, period. Just own it and then we’ll figure it out. Start with something.

Trisha Stetzel: Oh, I love that. Take action. Start with something. Okay, uh, before we take a little bit deeper, dive into levers, tell people how they can connect with you because I know they’re already interested in picking your brain.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Yeah. Uh, absolutely. Um, the probably the two best ways you can reach out to me on LinkedIn. Um, I do respond to every single message? Um, even maybe not all the ones that are clearly spam, but everyone that is personal I respond to, um, not always super fast. And then my email, which I’m actually probably slower than LinkedIn, I’m embarrassed to say is Amos at Retro Coscom. So it’s almos at retro cause are are you?

Trisha Stetzel: Okay. And I know they’re guessing how to spell your last name, so I’ll do it for you. Let me try. Okay. S c h w a r t z f a r b. How about that? Yeah. Okay.

Amos Schwartzfarb: So it took me like 16 years so that was great.

Trisha Stetzel: There’s not enough room. There’s not enough room for that. I’m just saying especially as a professional athlete, if you ever wore a jersey with your name on the back of it, it was a problem.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Yeah. My my daughter’s jersey. I think it like, curves around and goes.

Trisha Stetzel: It goes down one sleeve. Who knew? Okay, so back to levers. I would love to, if you don’t mind sharing, uh, share a little bit more about the framework that you talked about and something that might really stand out and a reason why people should go and grab your book.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Yeah. Um, I think what I can do and stop me if this is too much, but I think in a minute to a minute and a half, I can describe the whole book. Yeah. Um, so firstly, it’s a book you do, not a book you read. So if you’re interested in checking it out, you’ll read through it. You’ll read through it really fast, but really quickly you’ll figure out like, oh, I need to actually do work. It’s not like, this isn’t, not like, oh, I’m going to philosophize about cool stuff. And you’re like, yeah, it’s a great philosophy. No, we’re actually giving you tangible things to do. So the book has five chapters. There’s actually six frameworks. The sixth one is in the appendix, where when we do a second edition, we’re actually going to move it up front. And it’s really what everything starts with, which is you have to have a vision and a mission. It doesn’t really matter what it is, and it doesn’t have to be articulated well, but you have to know where you’re going. So I want to make baskets. Great, I want to I want to bring baskets to the world. Cool. But you have to have that to start. Um, and then it’s a series of five frameworks that are actually all data oriented. The first one is a framework to help you start to identify not just who you think your customer is or will be or should be, but who your customer actually actually is.

Amos Schwartzfarb: How do you figure out who it actually is, not just who you think it is with data. So the first framework helps you do that. The second framework helps you figure out your business model. So it’s, you know, you have an idea of how you’re going to make money. That’s great. And literally we have you write that out as a math equation. This is how I think I’m going to make money. The important work for this framework is what comes down. And I say underneath, and it’s a visual thing for me. What is all the work that has to go in to prove that your math equation is right? And that could be anything from your your marketing, but like getting very, very granular to your sales, to your finance team to anyone who you might be hiring. What are all the things that have to happen? What do you have to build? What do you have to buy? Do you need money? Can you do it with a pickax? Doesn’t matter. What are all the things? And then the that takes us to the third framework. So if you think about the first two frameworks, we’re basically creating a massive list of things to do and things we need to learn.

Amos Schwartzfarb: The third framework, which is we call validating assumptions. It actually helps you take all of that and anything you may have missed and prioritize it. And what we like to say is you can never do more than 2 or 3 things well at a time. So we the framework gives you ultimately a matrix at the end, which is things that are high priority, low priority, low priority. We don’t even talk about until it becomes high priority someday in the future. And then high priority breaks out into validated and unvalidated validated. You’re going, you’re building. You’re doing it Unvalidated you don’t get the you don’t earn the right to go do it until you learn whether or not you’ve earned the right to do it. So what do you have to learn in order to move it and make it validated so that you can go do it? The fourth framework this gets into like the metrics part of it, which is okay, now that we’re doing things, how do we measure what we’re doing and whether or not we’re heading in the right direction or not. And an important point here is doesn’t matter if you’re going in the right direction or not, it’s a failure if you don’t know why it’s a success. If you do know why you cannot hit your numbers, but you know why you have succeeded. Because now, if you know why, you know what you can do.

Amos Schwartzfarb: If you don’t know why you’re. If you don’t know why you’re crushing your numbers, then when your numbers start to worsen, you won’t know why. So it’s a framework tied into all this. How do I measure what I’m what I’m actually doing and what matters? And then the final framework and this is really like it’s scary for some people. And to me it’s the most exciting has become the most exciting part, which is how do you take all this and how do you build a financial model. And I’ll use a different word and I use these interchangeably. How do you create a plan that’s based off of all the data you have, that tells you what you’re supposed to do on a day to day, week to week, and month to month basis? That is something that you can measure what you’re doing and how you’re doing against it. So if you say, hey, I’m going to do these ten things and it should result in X, Y, and Z. Well, I only did eight of those ten things and it resulted in x and y. I didn’t do the last two things because of time, money, resource, whatever. I learned something cool. I didn’t hit all my goals. I think I understand why, how do I keep going forward? That’s it. That’s the book.

Trisha Stetzel: That’s it. That’s the whole book. Okay. But we still but people still want to buy it. I’m just saying. All right, uh, all the usual places they can find.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Yeah, yeah. Uh, any place. Yeah. I don’t think you can get it in bookstores anymore. Maybe some random ones have it, but. Amazon. Yeah. Amazon. And we’ve done something. This is very intentional. And I like to say this. It may maybe it’s self-soothing, but, um, we’re not trying to make money on this, but you don’t make money on a business book anyway. But if you want the audible copy, it’s like a $0.99 or $1.99, like it was the least that we can charge. And the book is like, again, the paper copy is the least that we were able to charge just to recoup some costs. But like we have kept it super, super inexpensive. Our goal is to just empower as many entrepreneurs as possible to control their own destiny.

Trisha Stetzel: So it sounds like you might be using this tool with the businesses that you decide to maybe invest in or be a part of.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Absolutely.
Trisha Stetzel: Which is amazing. It’s such a great start. Right? Uh, do you know where you’re at? Do you know where you want to go? And how are you going to, you know, get through the, the, uh, the gaps or what are the consequences of not getting where you want to go? So, um, I’m curious because you’ve done this so many times and you’ve built a tool for people who want to start a business. Um, what patterns do you consistently see with founders who win?

Amos Schwartzfarb: Um. The probably the number one pattern I see is that they know their metrics inside and out, period.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay. Comes back to the.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Numbers and the and the and the thing is an interesting thing about win though, because win comes in a lot of forms like you can you might be able to create like a relatively successful business but have no idea what’s going on. So you’re stressed out all the time. Someone might call that a win. I would not, because I don’t want to be stressed out. I I’m doing this because I love it. It should bring me joy, not stress. And I do think that the command of your numbers will allow you to live a less stressful existence.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay, so I’m going to go to the whole I don’t even I hate calling it work life balance. Can we just call it integration or whatever language you want to use around that? So not being stressed out in your business and being able to spend time with your family or go rock climbing or cook or whatever it is that you want to do, how do you get there? How do you get to have that work life balance or integration?

Amos Schwartzfarb: Yeah. Um, gosh, if I knew how to really, really answer this, I think I’d probably solve a lot of the world’s problems. It’s something that I continue to work on. I think that it’s driven people and, you know, and entrepreneurs, by definition, are driven people. Um, and, and most really, you know, true entrepreneurs that I know also, they have their own version of focus or tunnel vision or whatever you want to call it. You find yourself in something. Um, it’s really, really hard. And, and so there’s like, you know, sort of like basic things you can do on the surface, like, how do I what how do I identify what my boundaries are and how do I stick to my boundaries. Like, yeah, those are all important tactical things to do. I think there’s a almost always a much deeper root cause of why we are driving ourselves in this way. And this is the work that I like, the exploration I’m doing on myself. Like what allows me to say, how do I define what’s most important to me? 2 or 3 things, right? This is. I’m not talking about me and my life. What are the 2 or 3 most important things in my life? And I can tell you what they are. And any time that I start to feel myself get stressed or tensed up because it will happen, because I’m driven and I find myself focused and in tunnel vision, I step back and say, what am I doing that doesn’t support those three things? What can I take off my plate or what? Or is there an imbalance in how this is happening? And how can I look at that over a longer period of time? And how can I create something that is going to intuitively feel more balanced?

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. So we often talk about this idea of moving somewhat away from the business so that we can do the things that we love in life. But what if we flipped it and we talked about the things that we do in life that actually have shaped your leadership style? So you’re really into, um, Sports, adventure racing, rock climbing, probably a few other things that I don’t even know about. How have those extreme sports shaped your leadership style?

Amos Schwartzfarb: Um, I think it’s done a couple of things. One, particularly at times when I’m doing more than one thing that requires a tremendous amount of focus and attention. It has. It has taught me how to really, like, say no. How to not do the things that don’t support those things and and lead by example. Right. So being comfortable when you have an employee who is prioritizing the most important things and and and modeling for them, let’s focus on the most important things. Don’t just do busywork. Don’t just keep yourself reading emails because you’ve got a full inbox. Like, if that’s not serving what you’re actually supposed to do to move your business forward, let’s find our time to do that. So I think the modeling of that behavior is that of understanding where to focus and where to not spend your time is one. Um, and I think, uh, you know, I think it probably goes back to modeling also, which is, um, making sure that, um, how do I say this? Like. I think that I’ll say it like this. I don’t agree anymore. And there was a time that I fell into this culture, but I do not agree with the culture that we should be working 15 to 20 hours a day, seven days a week to run our business. I don’t think if you look at any other system in the world, engines like it doesn’t matter. You will see that everything has a point where it will max out and break because everything has a a shelf life of some amount. And so if I think about what it takes to build a business, and maybe this is like a thing that as a society we’ve kind of ruined a little bit, it really takes ten plus years to build a meaningful business.

Amos Schwartzfarb: And I believe lots of people think that, um, well, if I’m not, if this isn’t up and running in 18 months or two years, like I’m a failure or like I can’t, I can’t make it work because I don’t have the the, you know, the money or the resources or whatever it might be. Maybe that’s true. Um, but I think that the idea that something meaningful takes a long time. And if I want to be able to stay excited about it for a long time, I have to find the right. I’ll use the word balance, the right balance, the right amount of effort. Like think of it like a marathon runner or ultramarathon runner. They’re not running a five minute mile pace, right? And like, this is a cliche, but they’re finding the pace right below their threshold, their heart rate threshold where they can go for the longest amount of time. And I think that’s what it takes to build a business. And, and and it’s okay if you redline a little bit like and actually I would say I learned that way. Like I have to cross a barrier and then say, oops, that was too much and pull back so I know where the barrier is. That’s okay. Like it’s going to happen for all of us, but like but but but recognize that you can’t actually nobody no matter how you might be able to go for 2 or 3 years really really hard. Everyone is going to burn out at some point if they don’t have the right support around them, and they’re throttling too high.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay, so we’re at the back end of our time. And I have one last question and it has to do with support. Thanks for bringing that up. How important is it to surround yourself with the right people as you’re going through this journey?

Amos Schwartzfarb: Oh it’s everything. It’s absolutely everything. I, I have known a very, very small amount of entrepreneurs. And when I and when I say this, I don’t mean tech entrepreneurs. I mean people that, you know, they own a store on Main Street or something that have done it themselves and had a bunch of people that they tell what to do versus. Help them be better. And my judgment of them is always the same. You’re not seeing your potential because you can’t get out of your own way. So I am making a judgment there, but it’s just the pattern recognition that I’ve seen over and over again. I think having the right people around you is is the most important thing. And you know what I tell all the CEOs that I work with. So, so the work that I do with my CEOs, one of the things that I do with all of them is I help them mature alongside their businesses. So if they if I come in when they’re in a stage company and they’re, you know, three, four years later, they’re, you know, seed stage company and they’re making, you know, tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, like the business changes and their role changes. When you start a business, you are doing everything, and little by little you’re doing less and less. The, the, the CEO’s job is not to actually do the work anymore. It’s to understand the work and have people that are way better than you, helping you strategize and helping you execute and helping guide you. Right? So I think like finding the right people around you to help guide you is so, so and I don’t none of the most successful people that I know in the world, every one of them and myself included, have coaches, all of them. And this whole stigma that you have to do it alone. I mean, from, you know, I’m a Gen Xer, so I like I get it, I was there at one point like, yeah, like get a coach, get great people around you. Um, yeah.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay. This has been so much fun. I definitely you definitely have to come back because there’s so many other things that I want to dig deeper on. This was absolutely amazing. Thank you for taking the time. I really appreciate it. Amos. So tell us one more time how folks can connect with you.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Yeah. Um, so LinkedIn, Amos Schwartz but LinkedIn, or you can email me at Amos at com at C a.com.

Trisha Stetzel: Perfect. Uh, as always, you guys, I will put those links in the show notes. So if you happen to be sitting in front of your computer and you just want to point and click, you can do that. Please do not do that from your car. I beg of you, Amos. Thank you again. I appreciate your time today. I look forward to our next conversation.

Amos Schwartzfarb: Likewise. Me too. Thanks for having me.

Trisha Stetzel: All right, guys, that’s all the time we have for today. If you found value in this conversation that Amos and I had, please share it with a fellow entrepreneur, a veteran or a Houston leader ready to grow. And be sure to follow, rate, and review the show. Of course, it helps us reach more bold business minds just like yours and your business. Your leadership and your legacy are built one intentional step at a time. So stay inspired, stay focused, and keep building the business and the life you deserve.

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Houston, Texas. It’s time for Houston Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Trisha Stetzel: Hello, Houston. Trisha Stetzel here bringing you another episode of Houston Business Radio. So excited to introduce my next guest. Today’s guest is Dr. Kevin Dyson, a former first round NFL draft pick, educator, author, and now CEO of Music City Academy in Franklin, Tennessee. You may know Kevin from some of his most iconic moments in NFL history the Music City Miracle and the famous one yard shot play in Super Bowl 34. But what many don’t know is after the NFL, Kevin spent nearly two decades transforming schools as a teacher, a coach, and later as a principal at both Grassland Middle School and Centennial High School. Guided by his values instilled by his single mother, Kevin earned two master’s degrees and a Dr.ate in educational leadership, and today he leads Music City Academy with a mission to grow strong students and even stronger leaders. He is also the author of Qualified So I Am Justified, a leadership consultant and an in-demand keynote speaker known for turning his life experiences into lessons on resilience, purpose and character. Please welcome Dr. Kevin Dyson, educator, leader, and a man redefining what it means to succeed on and off the field. Dr. K.D., welcome to the show.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Well thank you. You know, I gotta have you do all my intros, I appreciate that.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that I spend a lot of time on these to make, you know, make it feel good, because we don’t often introduce ourselves with that kind of, um, umph, if you will. Right. So you’re welcome. And I’m so glad you’re on the show today. Um, how about you start with just telling us a little bit more about you, Kevin?

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Well, I’ll start with, as you mentioned, someone in the intro, um, I’m the oldest of of a single mother. Um, and part of that, her trying to keep us in line was, uh, sports. So sports had always been an important part of my life. But she had one rule, and it was to maintain a 3.0 or be average or better. And, you know, like most kids and I’m the oldest, I challenge that. And she took sport away from me. It was basketball, which was my first love was basketball. And those are the kind of values that my mom was trying to instill. I think she wanted us to understand that yes, it’s okay to have dreams, but you can’t skip steps to attain those dreams. And I jokingly talk about, you know, this is in the 80s when this conversation was happening and this was pre-Internet, and my mom literally came home one day after the almost like day after two days after I professed that I was going to the NBA to buy her house, she came home with the statistical probability of me making it in all the major professional sports in the US. And you know those numbers like one and 2,000,001. It’s crazy, right? It’s like less than 1%. And I look back on that now and I recognize it wasn’t to, you know, destroy my dreams of making the professional NBA make the professional basketball. It was more to give me a sense of priority and something to attain without skipping the necessary steps.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: And so that’s always kind of been in me. Uh, like you said, I played in NFL. I moved to education, um, kind of really like a lot of players have retired from the NFL trying to figure out what your next identity. What’s that transition for so much of your life? Sport dictated your next move, and I just happened to fall in love with learning, which I never had before as a kid. I loved how I was able to have an impact on kids, even if it was a short term, but some I found it’s been long term from now. I’ve been in education a little over 20 years that you talked about, and so that impact is far greater than anything you can really do in life when you have those intimate conversations that you have with with young people along the way and you hope they listen. Uh, even your own kids. Right. And so that is, you know, why I have lasted as long as I have in education and moved up the ranks that way. It just became somewhat of my calling, if you will. And now I’m embarking on a new challenge where I want to expand that that that brand, if you will, that influence that inspiration. By starting my own charter school out in the greater Nashville area.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, I love that. So it started with mom pushing you in the right direction and telling you that you had to have good grades, and it really I see that throughout all of the all of the things that I talked about in introducing you, but even through the conversations that we’ve had. So thank you for learning those lessons. Thank you, mom, for teaching those lessons and then bringing those back to the students. So, um, what do you think is one leadership lesson from football that translates perfectly to the classroom or even the boardroom?

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Wow, that’s pretty profound. I love that one. You know, what’s interesting is a lot of principals, especially in the county I was at or former athletes, and I think that’s not by chance. I think there’s a deliberate, um, action for that. I think because of sport, the ability to collaborate, the ability to stick through the ability to meet goals. But I also think there’s a toughness that comes through being in hard times of sports, a resilience. And I think you have to have a set of resilience. You have to have a sense of resiliency. Um, in education and I mean, uh, in my time that I have been in education, I’ve been through, what, two pandemics, um, been through multiple not me physically been through a school shooting, but across the country and that climate in the world and how that is and that. And when you see those things, that trickles on down to everybody, not just the people that are affected by it. And we were affected by it here, like 15, 20 minutes from the school I was working at, at a at a school that was affected by that a year or two ago. And so all those things, when you’re having to rally people around, calm people down, be a shoulder, be a support, but also lead through those. I think there’s a level that you learn from sport, not how to not to get rattled, not to waver, to be a steady presence and lead.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: I think that’s why a lot of a lot of leaders or a lot of superintendents, like for their leaders and buildings to be at former athletes. Um, and I think that’s one of the things I’ve been most appreciative of is opportunity to express some of that leadership skills that, you know, you used as the captain of the football team, the captain of the soccer team, basketball, whatever it might have been. And, you know, there’s a level of responsibility comes to that because the guys that are not captains are watching you and it’s similar. You know, you know, when you’re leading a school or leading a corporation, the people that are you’re in care of are responsible for your subordinates, whatever. They’re watching you. And um, and I’ve, I’ve always kind of kept that in mind and taken it to heart. And if they’re watching me, I want to be able to say I’m willing to do whatever you’re doing. I’ll get my my hands just as dirty as you if I have to. So that’s what I think. I have learned the most from my time as an athlete to my time as an educator, and more specifically as a as a leader of a school, just just having a sense of resiliency and stick to itiveness and just keep pushing through.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, I love that. So tell me what your students have taught you about leadership?

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Patience. No, seriously. You know, um, you have your own kids and there’s a level of patience that you, you almost have with them because they’re yours, right? Um, but there’s a different level of patience when people are raised in different homes and they come collectively together and you’re trying to come to a common goal or common goals, whether it be academic achievement, test scores, attendance, whatever those goals are. And you’re trying to mold young minds and things of that nature. Uh, you have to be patient, I think. You have to understand and get a level of understanding from, uh, just how people are. Uh, not everybody sees the world as you see it. You gotta recognize that and try to see the world from other people’s lenses. And I think that’s been one of my greatest assets as a leader, is being able to be compassionate to all people. Um, and appreciate all walks of life and just being able to be a soundboard, listen and just pay attention. And when you pay attention, you be able to have a sense of patience to work through some things. You can change the narrative of whatever that is bad, good or indifferent. You can kind of change that narrative if you just listen and be patient sometimes. Uh, sometimes I can be too patient. Sometimes I can be too laid back, and I understand that about myself. Um, but I am a I try to see things from all angles and not rush to Two decisions. Not rush to making a move. Drastic move just to make it. Um, and I sometimes be perceived as, um, laid back, but, um, man, just dealing when you’re dealing with teenagers because hormones changing, girlfriend changing, social media changing, you just got to learn to be patient and work through those things.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. So much has changed since the 80s, hasn’t it?

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Just a little bit.

Trisha Stetzel: So much. So much. Well, and this this conversation we’re having really speaks to not just your leadership, but also your purpose and your character. And I think it, uh, really rounds out who you are as a leader. So can we talk a little bit about your book qualified? So I am justified. You redefine success. Um, how has your own definition of success changed across your life? Chapters.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Man, that’s that’s kind of what the book was alluding to. Um, when I first retired from the NFL. I knew doors would open for me. Of course I wanted to coach, but when I settled in on secondary education and I was coaching from a high school perspective, I knew doors would open for me. But I also knew I wanted them to remain open. So I wanted to go back to school and get qualified because I didn’t know what I was doing other than I knew football. I didn’t know education. And so I was justified for the opportunities that came. And that’s kind of how the book kind of started. And within that, though, I’ve learned a lot of things about myself from an emotional standpoint. I, you know, I think I cared a lot about a lot more about what people, how they viewed me. Um, if I was disappointing people, you know, I was the first receiver taken in the 98 NFL draft ahead of one of the greatest to ever do it, Randy Moss. And so much of my identity was from myself, other people. I believe people thought this. And whether they did or didn’t, I believe to be true. Um, that I was always chasing his shadows. And then I have injuries and I could never play catch up. I could never catch his shadow because I’d have a setback after setback after setback that eventually led to me retiring early, and I had a hard time dealing with that internally.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Externally, people didn’t know, but internally I felt like I’ve let a lot of people down. I let my teammates down, let my family down, even myself, because I didn’t amass the career that I had envisioned for myself. And I had some moments, as you mentioned, with the miracle and the one yard short and and things of that nature. But I also wanted that extensive career to, to validate me being picked 16th overall. And so through that in the book, it just kind of transformed to I had to reinvent myself. I had to humble myself and start, start fresh, find a new passion and then delve into that and get better at whatever that is. And that’s what I hope I’ve been able to do. I think I still got lots to learn about leadership, and sometimes I have the crutch of good people around me to support me, and I leverage that. And I can do better with being more assertive on my end. But, um, but I’ve I’ve learned through this process, though, man, reinvention is hard. There’s a process. And if you’re not willing, if you don’t take the time to allow it to, to develop and and transpire like it’s supposed to, a lot of guys lose that sense of purpose real, real fast.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: And that’s when a lot of things happen. And I’ve been pretty fortunate that I found a new passion. I found a new purpose. And and, um, it’s continued to grow and it’s leading me down this journey of starting my own school, um, 50 years old. And if you told my 30 year old self when I retired from NFL that when I turned 50, I’d be here starting my own school, I’d have thought she was crazy. I really thought I was just going to teach and coach and maybe be an athletic director for for 20 years and retire and and just go golf or and do random things here and there like I do. You know, I do radio, I do TV, I’ve done a lot of different things, uh, speak and all that stuff. And, uh, but now I’m here and I’ve had the opportunity to lead some schools and, and of course, with the people around me, I’ve had some success doing so. And now I’m here and I’m taking this new challenge. And I’m hoping the lessons that I’ve learned over the last 20 years longer than that, really in the last 50 years of life, um, and being able to and implement some of that into school and hopefully this school lasts for years even beyond me. So we’ll see.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. Okay, so before we dive into I want to talk about Music City Academy. Uh, but I know people are already interested in connecting with you, Kevin. So what is the best way for folks to find you?

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Oh, well, so social media wise, Katie Dyson 87. That’s usually my tagline on everything. Um, of course I’m on LinkedIn. You can just search for my name there. And, um, as far as, like, this website’s, of course, Kevin Dyson. Com, that’s my personal website. Um, got the book and things like that and a little bit bio, a little bit more about me. And then, um, Music City Academy, and that’s the course. I love people to kind of go in there and see what we have going on. We’re still building it up a little better, but because we’re still new, um, and we haven’t even started yet, but, uh, people want to go there and find ways to support the school, be a part of the process. Reach out to me that you can go to either my website, Kevin Dyson. Com, or Music City Academy.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. Okay, so what vision drove you to build the Academy and what makes the model of Music City Academy different?

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Wow. Uh, well, what drove me, um, was some stuff we’ve been talking about. You know, I’ve been a principal. I’ve been in education 20 years. And what I’ve seen in education is a lot of good people that want to do right by kids want to teach kids and they have passions for the content and the things that they are teaching. But a lot of times we are set by a set of rules or bylaws. Be in public settings, right that you have to do. You have to pass by. So you you almost become almost become cookie cutter in a way, because there’s certain things that you have to do every year. So the inspiration was, I wanted to do something, have an opportunity to do something a little different. And I wanted to take what I, for me, my personality would would have been the type of school that would engage me. You know, I did decent enough in school. I had like I said, my mom made sure we maintained a three or better. I, I was just just under 3.4 GPA and I and I say that because I was pretty good. Yeah. But really I didn’t I didn’t extend myself, you know, I played the, the game where if I had chemistry, I made sure I had home EQ or or art or something to balance it out, you know, to make sure I was going to get my B average. And I didn’t do any advanced classes because I just didn’t I didn’t think I was smart.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: And I just when I realized when you talk about intelligence, a lot of it is just stick to itiveness and motivation. And I learned that, of course, in my 40s. But so that was kind of what led to this journey of this school. And I’m taking a unifying power of sports and helping young student athletes find their academic passions to the lens of sports and turn that to excellence. And aside for that, I love competition. You want to build sports teams, and you want to build schools that kids want to come play ball with, but also get an academic experience that that’s a little bit different. And within the school, we’re going to emphasize the the totality of a person, the holistic view of a kid, the mind, body and soul if you will, and have resources within the school to make sure we’re matching that. Start today with some intentional time for kids to to really, uh, get ready for school, whether it be exercise, their advisory, their team, period, um, things of that nature to really just set them up for success in the day. You know, research says if you either meditate, exercise or take time like read or something to yourself before starting your day, you’re more likely to be productive. And I’ve kind of taken that sense and that model. And it’s true. If you if you probably do it yourself, you get up, you go for your run, you read your book, you have your morning coffee, you go to the gym.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: It sets you up for success for the rest of your day. And if you don’t do those things you recognize, you’re like, why am I sluggish today? What’s going on? It’s because your your routine is off. You didn’t get up and get your your blood flowing. Get your mind right. And so I’m just taking that that research and turning it into a purpose in education, um, and trying to do something a little bit different, encouraging teachers to use movement, um, to not just sit desk you encouraging them to use movement as part of their instruction. Uh, so kids are not just sitting and getting, I think, kinesthetically and and things of that nature. Uh, we all learn a little bit different. Um, I have learned this over the years of myself. I if I’d have known this when I was younger, I might have helped me out. But I’m not necessarily a sit and get guy. I could do it more now that I’m older and I recognize it. Um, but as a kid, I probably would have done a lot better had they incorporate movement. That’s football, basketball, soccer, baseball. What other sports have I done in my life? When you learn plays or things like what are you doing? You’re moving and and it’s easy for me even now, I can learn plays instantly because I know the movement of it.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: And so that’s the gist of it. It’s just you just really taking the holistic view of a kid using unified power of sports and turn it into a purpose in it. And oh, and I guess I should mention failed to mention we’re talking about our career pathways. Career technical education will make some partnerships and maybe do some dual enrollment, some internships, some job shouting, job shadowing in the world of sports with Nashville has become kind of a Mecca for some professional sports teams. Plenty of colleges and universities, let alone the the rec leagues, opportunities for kids to delve into different professions within the world of sports. As a kid, the only thing I knew was professional basketball or professional sports. But professional basketball was the dream. I didn’t know the the wide variety of opportunities in the world of sports that I delve into now do sports talk radio. I’ve done TV analysis. I understand some of the things behind the scenes from camera work, journalism, uh, sports marketing, uh, sports, uh. Uh. Uh, what’s it called? Uh, social media marketing. There’s so many opportunities for kids to be in the world of sports. If you have a passion for sports, uh, that you can leverage that into a life post-secondary. And that’s kind of why I chose to go this path. It’s just, I think, to do something different from the typical, um, educational sense and provide what I’m passionate about, which is now learning and, of course, sports.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. Oh my gosh, you’re like turning the world of education upside down. I love this I think it’s fantastic what you’re bringing. Um, you mentioned that you’d been on a trip and you’re building relationships before we started our conversation today. And I’d love to know what relationships are you trying to build? Are there people out there listening right now, or people that they know that you need to connect with? Who are they?

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Uh, anybody that has a heart for kids, that’s on the broad sense, right? I think if you want to narrow it down, um, just if you very hard for kids. And you want to see them succeed. Um, in in the world of and I’m gonna say sports, but just in the world in general, I think I would love to connect with you, uh, we, you know, to do with your vision, it obviously it costs money. And and there’s going to be a time and place once we get the, the, the land or the building and things like that, you want to build it out, provide, uh, an awesome experience for kids from hopefully be open August 2027 and beyond. Um, and I would love to connect with people. If you have a heart for kids, if your heart for sports and or a combination of both or, you know, and what I found just talking to families is, uh, I had a young I had a lady tell me she’s, um, probably in her 50s. And she said, man, sports saved her son’s life. And and I can say something similar, you know, being, like I said, raised in a home, just my mother and seeing her grind and doing all those things. Sport was what kept me around. My motivation was to be able to provide for her, provide a home for her, and lessen her burden. And sport has always been a catalyst, and there’s so many lessons that you get from the world of sports and competition that that can be used later in life. And so anybody that just has a heart for kids, heart for sport, and want to see something come together between the two and look, reach out to me, like you said, for my websites and and things of that nature. I’d love to talk and connect so much.

Trisha Stetzel: Reinvention. I think we’ve we’ve had so much shift and change from the beginning of the story to where you are today. Today, um, how do you and I know you’ve written about that, right? The reinvention. You talked a little bit about it earlier, but how are you personally navigating all of this reinvention for yourself? And what would you suggest to others who feel like they’re ready for that?

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Wow. So I did a keynote, um, a year ago. And I was just talking about not being afraid to chase your dreams or chase whatever’s aching at you and letting go of. And it was, you know, acronym. And it was lead with grit. And the L is letting go of those things that that stop you from progressing to your destiny. And so many of us, we are scared to make that move because we’re comfortable or we don’t know what the what ifs are, the challenges along the way. And some of us are getting older. We don’t want to embark on those new challenges, even though our passion leads us in different ways. And so I think one of the whole things is one, you humbling yourself. And I think that’s first you gotta if you want to start over, you gotta hump yourself and say, I’m gonna start over and it’s not going to be easy. Two is let go of those things that stop you from even trying to, which is like letting go of the fear, letting go of the the naysayers, the the negative talk, the the the fear you have on yourself to go ahead and pursue your your purpose. You know, one of the things taglines I have on some of the shirts that I have on my website is you have you have the power to pursue your purpose.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: And I think we forget that sometimes because we let outside influences, you know, distract us. They, they, they give us alternate routes and, and things like that. And we forget. We we control our own destiny. We control our own, our own purpose. And you just have to go out there and realize you have the power to change it and and do it. And it starts with humbling yourself and realize you got a long ways to learn. And, you know, I go back to my first time in a classroom, my first time teaching I would have never thought I’d be in at this point, would have two master’s degrees or Dr.ate, and let alone starting my own school. And I had to reinvent myself. And I’ve had former teammates and friends that wanted to get something a little more substantial or getting the coaching. And one of the things that they asked me, what did I do? You know, how did I get where I was at? And simply put, man, I humble myself and started over. I had to start somewhere. I mean, and I didn’t know necessarily what my passions were back then, you know, I made it into fail and that was my passion, was sport. I wanted to play in the professional league was basketball, but football. And when you’re done. I was 30 years old and it’s like, okay, now what? And traditionally most guys, because you’ve been playing ball, you go into coaching.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: And I like most I sort that out. But it wasn’t in the plans for me. And when I got in, I started teaching kids and coaching kids. I was like, I kind of like this now there are some things I wish I would have done as a player set myself up for when I did retire from an entrepreneurial standpoint. But even still, those are not necessarily my passions. Those are kind of hobbies that help you create passive income and all the different things that come with that. It’s not necessarily my passion, though. Um, so having something that gives you a purpose and passion that’s crucial for anybody with reinvention. We all want to have a sense of purpose. And I think that is your ultimate answer is yeah. Humbling yourself. But does it give you a sense of purpose? Is what you’re doing give you a sense of purpose? If it doesn’t, then you’re not doing what you’re called to do. And I think that’s the ultimate dream is why we’re here on earth, to have our sense of purpose. And I know a lot of times money rules the world. And we we equate our purpose with how much we make. But that’s not always the case.

Speaker4: Mhm. That’s beautiful.

Trisha Stetzel: Thank you. Passion and purpose and I, I well I have one more question for you. Absolutely. Finish up today. How important is it for all of us to surround ourselves with the right people, as students, as leaders, as grown ups? How important is that man?

Dr. Kevin Dyson: You you you’re speaking my brain lesson. I one thing I have learned on this side of my journey is I and I mentioned it earlier, I didn’t leverage those that network those relationships as a as a college kid, meeting up boosters and people that shook and made the world go round. Right? Um, from a college perspective, all the alumni, things like that. And I think one thing I’ve learned as an educator is building on relationships inside the building and outside the building are crucial. You need you need partners. You know, um, one thing about me, I’ve been humble enough to know I’m not the smartest man in the room, and I never profess to be. And I’ve been fortunate enough to surround myself with people that are intelligent in other ways. You know, I have my skill sets, right? But I always compliment my my skill deficit with those that have those skills. And I think sometimes, again, it goes back to being humbled and knowing yourself. I think a lot of times people feel like I have to have all the answers as opposed to leveraging the network, leveraging your relationships with people, and utilizing their skill sets to compliment yours or your weaknesses or your your shortcomings and and working on those to become strengths, but leveraging those that are good at those sort of things. Like, I know people that are really good in organization and communication, like leverage that there’s people that are that are really smart in, in budgeting and finance and operations leverage that, you know, and just, you know, your skill sets and what your value is and bring that to the table.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: And, you know, if I can tell my younger self and what I try to tell my own kids and the kids that come in contact with man is if you make a contact, leverage that. And I still struggle with it. I need to get better at it, but send somebody a kind email, send them a Christmas card or a note. Um, make sure you stay in contact people. You just never know where that conversation is going to lead you to. And I’ve had people before come to me say, coach, and this is when I was coach. And so, you know, I’m Dr. Dyson, but, uh, coach, I did what you said. I sent an email that man, and they. The guy remembered that when I when I came in for internship. And now he’s working for this company. And so it’s just that simple because he remembered this kid reach back out to him with a purpose. And he was like, I appreciate that because so many kids come and go and don’t even appreciate the time they had. Now he leveraged it and he has a job now. So that’s that’s the ultimate thing, man. It’s just leverage your relationships and and network and just be genuinely kind to people.

Trisha Stetzel: Beautiful. Thank you so much for your time today Kevin. This has been such a wonderful conversation. Uh, throw out your contact information one more time where people can connect with you.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Absolutely. Um, Katie Dyson, 87. That’s my tag on social media. And you can find me at Kevin Dyson. Com simply put. And then music city. Music city miracle. Music city academy. I’m so used to call it Mister Miracle. That’s it. Music City Academy plays off of that, of course, but it’s actually Music City Academy, so you can catch. You can find me there. Got it.

Trisha Stetzel: Thank you so much, Dr.. Kevin Dyson, CEO of Music City Academy. It’s been my pleasure to host you today.

Dr. Kevin Dyson: Thank you so much. I appreciate your time.

Trisha Stetzel: All right, guys, that’s all the time we have for today. If you found value in this conversation that Kevin and I had, please share it with a fellow entrepreneur, veteran or Houston leader ready to grow. And as always, please rate, review and follow the show. It helps us reach more bold business minds just like yours and your business. Your leadership and your legacy are built one intentional step at a time. So stay inspired, stay focused, and keep building the business and the life you deserve.