TMBS E85: Mikkel Thorup, Escape Artist
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Mikkel Thorup, Publisher of Escape Artist
Mikkel is the author of Expat Secrets: How to Pay Zero Taxes, Live Overseas & Make Giant Piles Of Money, and has 20 years of experience traveling around the world, visiting over 100 countries!
Since the early 2000s, Mikkel has lived as an expat, calling home to Central America, the South Pacific, Asia, the Middle East, the Arctic, and North America.
While traveling the world, he has paid attention to various investments and businesses and has taken advantage of many opportunities he has come across.
“Mikkel Thorup has made it his mission to serve others and constantly gives back to the community by sharing his knowledge in entrepreneurship with the hopes of impacting others in a positive manner.”
GWBC Radio: Sonya Locke with EDS Service Solutions
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Sonya Locke is CEO of EDS Service Solutions, a staff outsourcing company that operates in 80 airports throughout the US within the car rental, mobility and hospitality sector.
She is an accomplished leader with 20 plus years of both domestic and international experience in operations, P&L oversight, product development and marketing involving both start-up and growth organizations. Sonya is a results-oriented, decisive executive with proven success in new market identification and strategic positioning for multimillion-dollar companies.
Follow EDS on Facebook and LinkedIn.
Show Transcript
Intro: [00:00:04] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia, it’s time for GWBC Radio’s Open for Business. Now, here’s your host.
Lee Kantor: [00:00:18] Welcome to GWBC’s Open for Business. This is Lee Kantor. And this is going to be a fun episode. Today, we have with us Sonya Locke, and she’s with an organization called ADS Service Solutions. Welcome, Sonya.
Sonya Locke: [00:00:33] Thank you very much, Lee. Looking forward to meet up with you.
Lee Kantor: [00:00:33] Well, tell us a little bit about your work. How do you serve folks at ADS?
Sonya Locke: [00:00:41] So, ADS Service Solutions is a national outsourcing managed services and staffing partner for many Fortune 500 companies, primarily in travel, airport industry, hospitality, and the delivery sectors. So, on a smaller basis, we’ve provided consultancy, and augment, and staffing. But for most of our clients that we work with, we provide functional management for the entire department. Meaning that we will put in the actual logistical goals for that, have customer service and delivery goals.
Sonya Locke: [00:01:19] We would, then, hire and employ everyone from the manager down to the field and workers. In some locations, we may have 10 full-time staff. Some locations, we actually have 200 full-time staff. And we serve as a partner for our clients, basically kind of an extension of their business, to provide the full functional services for whether it’d be in the car rental sector where we would control moving of all of their fleet, cleaning their fleet, having it ready for rental to something more in the last mile delivery, delivering products once it gets into a certain city to the actual consumer. So, we provide the full outsourcing function of that, as well as the recruiting, and hiring, and human resources for managing that workforce.
Lee Kantor: [00:02:09] So, how did you get into this line of work? And what made you choose this specialty?
Sonya Locke: [00:02:15] It, actually, became it’s a very small niche all the way back to when Atlanta was first hosting the Olympics. That was my first business. And we started with client with Avis Car Rental at the airport. At that time, we were much more traditional staffing. And with the Olympics coming, they were really needing to augment their staff to have enough people to get vehicles from all over the place. And we just did a very good job.
Sonya Locke: [00:02:42] Our focus was more on human resources and finding talent. So, we brought college kids in, people that wanted part time jobs as professionals. We had a very different workforce to what the airport was used to, and we had some logistical management systems to where instead of just them telling us, “We need 10 people,” we would tell them, “Actually, we can do this job with five people, but based on this workflow.”
Sonya Locke: [00:03:10] And from that, it kind of grew and we’ve been very organic in our growth. We have a couple of very prestigious clients, and they tell us what cities they need help in. And that’s been our primary way we’ve grown through the years. And it was a very interesting niche that we kind of found and have, like I said, expanded that into also the hospitality and the last mile delivery sector as well.
Lee Kantor: [00:03:36] Now, that’s a great lesson for our listeners that are business owners that these are some things that you can’t really plan for but you are open to it, and then you just let it kind of play out, and then just focused on the area that you can serve and that worked with your skill set, and then just kind of organically expanded that. You were open to that, though.
Sonya Locke: [00:03:57] Yeah. And I always say, one of my favorite lessons that I’ve always had a motto early in life is that, Never chase the money. That will come to you if you follow your passion and what you’re good at in your job.” And that’s no matter what was thrown to us with our clients, we always had what our core function was as a business, and how we could best partner with our clients, and not be more in a vendor-client relationship but more truly a partnership. How could we service them? And what are our core strengths? And expanding from that.
Sonya Locke: [00:04:34] But definitely, yeah, you have to be open for the opportunities and the changes. And I think especially with what’s going on right now in our world, there’s going to be a lot of changes over the next couple of years, and adapting to more flexible solutions with your business while maintaining your core competencies is important.
Lee Kantor: [00:04:54] And when the people you’re working with view you as a partner, they look at you as part of the solution, not as part of the problem, right?
Sonya Locke: [00:05:03] Yes. And that’s why all of our partners, we’ve had them for very long term, and they’ve trusted us. And through like all these complexities that’s going on right now, we have open communications every week and really discuss ideas back and forth, like trying to get PPE equipment to the employees and creating a safe work environment, that creates a partnership because we’re onsite at our client’s facilities, and we’re working hand-in-hand with their employees and their management teams. So, communication is critical at anytime of whether it’d be an emergency or just even a growth strategy.
Lee Kantor: [00:05:43] So, now, one of your kind of open-for-business ways that you have to deal with the safety issues with your employees right now that you’re implementing and maybe you can share with our listeners.
Sonya Locke: [00:05:55] Yeah, and that has been varied. So, because we were at the airport, we’re considered essential workers, and our employees have been working through this whole time period, including in markets like San Francisco, which was our first one that had a shelter-in-place order. And we started dealing with this like early March before it had gone into the full April time period.
Sonya Locke: [00:06:21] So, the first thing that we really had to do was, I think, it was like March 8th, I was actually coming back for my daughter’s spring break and had started seeing all the stuff with the virus, how it was spreading, and the first thing was trying to get critical supplies that we knew were going to be necessary, such as hand sanitizers, disinfectants. Later, we added, of course, gloves, things like that.
Sonya Locke: [00:06:47] And even early on, most of the supply chain had already started breaking. So, we had to look at multiple sources, good connections with more industrial type cleaning supply places and procure those. And even with procurement, you’re always looking at two weeks out time period. So, first step was, of course, like I said, the disinfectant posters, having very immediate policies on what to do if an employee is sick, making sure that they’re staying home, being flexible in terms of not promoting people coming into work that are sick, promoting handwashing, sanitation, using hand sanitizers, gloves.
Sonya Locke: [00:07:31] Once the mask ordinance was also released, even though it’s not required, we had a hard time procuring mask, we’d already started working on it, but we were still waiting on shipping time. So, we had videos on how people could make their own cloth mask. I actually had several of my VPs that had family members sewing masks for our employees. So, promoting that to where, now, we’re actually also implementing temperature checks where we will take the employee’s temperature before they come to work.
Sonya Locke: [00:08:02] But all of it has been one on the PPE equipment is really trying to cast your net wide, go outside of just a Costco and places like that because everyone’s hitting that to more direct routes to the supply chain, and planning everything two to three weeks ahead of time. If you start hearing news like the facemask when they started making gentle recommendations for it, at that point, if you’re not already implementing a policy ahead of that, then you’re going to be behind the eight ball in terms of not being able to get the equipment you need.
Sonya Locke: [00:08:41] We’ve also had some sites that did have to close down that were not at the airport, not essential functions. And now, we’re going into the process of reopening it. How do we make sure of the social distancing? It’s another big factor we’ve had to take into consideration is how to layout our facilities and our workflow to allow for social distancing for our employees. And just kind of having a checklist of, one, do you have the proper cleaning protocols? Do you have your scenarios for what if somebody test positive? How do you do contact tracing to make sure that you inform all the right people? What’s the disinfecting process, especially with facilities that we don’t necessarily own? What is that facility? SO, there’s a lot of factors that have gone into it and keep on getting refined and changed on a daily basis.
Lee Kantor: [00:09:34] Now, from a human-to-human level, how do you kind of help the employees kind of deal with this level of uncertainty and fear that might be cropping up?
Sonya Locke: [00:09:45] Yeah, there has been a lot of fear, and that is where it is in critical training our managers and my regional managers and having constant communication to get back down to the employees. If an employee does not feel comfortable going back to work, the first thing is we don’t know why they might not be comfortable. They may be taking care of an elderly person in their home. They may be part of the vulnerable population. We have to be empathetic to what their fear is.
Sonya Locke: [00:10:21] And then, also, we have to provide those safeguards for them, which is all the PPE equipment and having a set organized plan. Like this is how we’re handling it, and this is what we recommend. Obviously, like I said, we’ve been more flexible on sick leave in terms of if we need to send employees home, making it not affect them as much.
Sonya Locke: [00:10:47] And the other part is we did have to furlough a large majority of our staff early on because the volume strictly wasn’t there. And we chose to furlough versus laying off because we knew we were going to bring our people back. And I think that’s also a thing that by communicating it to the employees, “This is no fault of your own,” we provide them exactly how they could get unemployment. We kept their health insurance benefits throughout that time period, and we are communicating with them. So, we said it’s a 30-day furlough, and then 30 days as to our time to call them back.
Sonya Locke: [00:11:23] So, there’s a lot of steps to try to make an employee feel comfortable, but I think the first is you have to kind of also listen to them and make sure that you’re not blanketly trying to say, “Oh, everybody is in this scenario. People have different comfort levels.” And as an employer, the best you can do is make sure you’re communicating and really providing a plan and protection for them.
Lee Kantor: [00:11:48] Now, let’s talk a little bit about GWBC. How has that organization impacted your business and maybe helped you through this because I know they’re doing a good job of sharing information as quickly as they get it with their members?
Sonya Locke: [00:12:01] Yeah. They have been very excellent at that. They’ve had a lot of very fascinating webinars, and we get mailed into our inboxes. And so, we have some of that my HR team kind of look at that, and I have others that is more on kind of business growth at risk. So, they’re giving the information out and having these different formats has been very instrumental. And having a network of women businesses, I think, it’s also just is … it’s very impactful. At this time, no one has been through exactly a crisis like this, and you need to have a network of other companies and other business leaders that you can talk to to get their opinions on how they’re handling things and to find your best practices working through and navigating all the information that’s out there.
Lee Kantor: [00:12:58] Now, have you had to spend any of your time with your clients to help them kind of brainstorm, maybe pivot, or some changes that they’re going to have to make in this new environment that maybe they can leverage your strengths?
Sonya Locke: [00:13:11] Yes. Actually, we’ve had very extensive talks on it and have been working with our clients directly on pilot programs where it is a different factor of their business that may be more in the future. Also, as we go to contactless deliveries and different models like that, how do we promote that and change our workflow or our patterns to make sure that we can train people get accustomed to what this new normal is going to be.
Sonya Locke: [00:13:46] But we have pretty much talks with our clients. Some of my managers may talk to them almost every day. But then, on a higher level, I will usually speak to their higher levels, at least, once a week or every other week, really, just to discuss all of these things, whether it’d be pivoting to safety and to new workplace measurements. How do we accomplish this? And what are they wanting? And what are they looking at doing? And offering our expertise as far as what we’ve seen as well in this process, and listening to seminars such as what the Georgia Women’s Council can give us too.
Lee Kantor: [00:14:27] Now, are you seeing any silver linings in that anything you’re doing now that you’ve had to do because of the crisis that you’ll be like, “Hey, you know what? When this crisis is over, we may still want to implement this, or maybe this will open up some other line of business that we hadn’t thought of previously”?
Sonya Locke: [00:14:45] Yes, there’s a couple of different things with that. And I do think that from this, there is a silver lining. There’s going to be so much innovation that’s going to be coming out. On a business pivoting level, we’ve never really had to have a huge sales department because of our relationships with our clients. They kind of call, so we grow organically. But now I’ve re-positioned some of my recruiters and my operations managers into my sales team, and they’re having a lot of successes because they know what talent database we have and what our people are capable of. Define more vertical industries such as deliveries has been a big change of focus as well as janitorial. Everybody’s looking at different verticals.
Sonya Locke: [00:15:33] And that’s one thing that has really come positive from this, is we have the transferable skills as far as what we’re capable of and our systems in place. We’ve kept our key management. So, it’s been exciting seeing people change their roles, and people we would not have expected that actually did have a better sales background because they were business consultants.
Sonya Locke: [00:15:57] But on the internal thing,video conferencing has been our biggest, I think, new future that we will have. And it has been a lot of fun. We have literally 10 different platforms we’ve tried. I’ve been most impressed with Zoom is the easiest and most stable internet connective-wise. And what we see is we have our conference calls, which we always had a Monday morning conference call for our regionals from all over the country, but it was a phone call. And now, we’re doing these and big Zoom meetings, and everybody’s in their different locations, but we’ve always been spread out throughout the country. So, it’s a much more personal way to connect face to face.
Sonya Locke: [00:16:41] We also have had operations calls every morning for about an hour as just kind of like a stand up. And we have people from six different states that call in, and we’re just talking about communication that’s going to go out to our managers in the field.
Sonya Locke: [00:16:56] So, the other thing is our corporate office, we set up a system to where we could work at home. And we’ve been working at home for like the last month. So, we kind of have all of my key functions having two offices. So, they have the office setup at the house, and then they have the office setup at the corporate office. So, it provides a lot more flexibility to respond in emergencies like that, and some opportunities for people to remote work, which they are able to do at the full productivity level.
Lee Kantor: [00:17:33] So, now, if somebody wanted to learn more about your organization and have a more substantive conversation, is there a website?
Sonya Locke: [00:17:41] Yes. Our website is www.edsservicesolutions.com.
Lee Kantor: [00:17:52] Well, Sonya, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing important work. Thank you.
Sonya Locke: [00:17:56] Thank you.
Lee Kantor: [00:17:58] All right. This is Lee Kantor. We will see you all next time on GWBC Open for Business.
About Your Host
Roz Lewis is President & CEO – Greater Women’s Business Council (GWBC®), a regional partner organization of the Women’s Business Enterprise National Council (WBENC) and a member of the WBENC Board of Directors.
Previous career roles at Delta Air Lines included Flight Attendant, In-Flight Supervisor and Program Manager, Corporate Supplier Diversity.
During her career she has received numerous awards and accolades. Most notable: Atlanta Business Chronicle’s 2018 Diversity & Inclusion award; 2017 inducted into the WBE Hall of Fame by the American Institute of Diversity and Commerce and 2010 – Women Out Front Award from Georgia Tech University.
She has written and been featured in articles on GWBC® and supplier diversity for Forbes Magazine SE, Minority Business Enterprise, The Atlanta Tribune, WE- USA, Minorities and Women in Business magazines. Her quotes are published in The Girls Guide to Building a Million Dollar Business book by Susan Wilson Solovic and Guide Coaching by Ellen M. Dotts, Monique A. Honaman and Stacy L. Sollenberger. Recently, she appeared on Atlanta Business Chronicle’s BIZ on 11Alive, WXIA to talk about the importance of mentoring for women.
In 2010, Lewis was invited to the White House for Council on Women and Girls Entrepreneur Conference for the announcement of the Small Business Administration (SBA) new Women Owned Small Business Rule approved by Congress. In 2014, she was invited to the White House to participate in sessions on small business priorities and the Affordable Care Act.
Roz Lewis received her BS degree from Florida International University, Miami, FL and has the following training/certifications: Certified Purchasing Managers (CPM); Certified Professional in Supplier Diversity (CPSD), Institute for Supply Management (ISM)of Supplier Diversity and Procurement: Diversity Leadership Academy of Atlanta (DLAA), Negotiations, Supply Management Strategies and Analytical Purchasing.
Connect with Roz on LinkedIn.
About GWBC
The Greater Women’s Business Council (GWBC®) is at the forefront of redefining women business enterprises (WBEs). An increasing focus on supplier diversity means major corporations are viewing our WBEs as innovative, flexible and competitive solutions. The number of women-owned businesses is rising to reflect an increasingly diverse consumer base of women making a majority of buying decision for herself, her family and her business. 
GWBC® has partnered with dozens of major companies who are committed to providing a sustainable foundation through our guiding principles to bring education, training and the standardization of national certification to women businesses in Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina
Dr. Daniel Carraway with RWDC Industries
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Dr. Daniel Carraway. CEO and Co-Founder of RWDC Industries, is a leading authority on biopolymer development and commercialization, having invented and commercialized more than a dozen new bio-based polymers.
He believes deeply that achieving personal value is found through the selfless helping of others, and within the frameworks of earth stewardship and respect of all people and living things.
Daniel’s lifelong passion for the environment and natural processes and systems gives him a unique perspective, fueling his groundbreaking work with biopolymers.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
- What RWDC is, and why it was founded
- RWDC’s Series B Funding Announcement
- About the sustainable plastics industry
- Environmental impacts of plastic waste
- PHA as an alternative to petroleum-based plastics
- How PHA is created
About Our Sponsor
OnPay’s
payroll services and HR software give you more time to focus on what’s most important. Rated “Excellent” by PC Magazine, we make it easy to pay employees fast, we automate all payroll taxes, and we even keep all your HR and benefits organized and compliant.
Our award-winning customer service includes an accuracy guarantee, deep integrations with popular accounting software, and we’ll even enter all your employee information for you — whether you have five employees or 500. Take a closer look to see all the ways we can save you time and money in the back office.
BRX Pro Tip: Choose Your Friends Wisely
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BRX Pro Tip: Choose Your Friends Wisely
Stone Payton: [00:00:00] Welcome back to BRX Pro Tips. Lee Kantor and Stone Payton here with you. Lee, you’re always saying choose your friends wisely. What do you mean by that, particularly in a business context?
Lee Kantor: [00:00:13] There’s a saying from Jim Rohn. I think it was him who said that, “You’re the average of the five people you’re around the most.” And if you believe that to be so, then you better choose those five people very carefully. And I would add, more positive people. I would get rid of the negative people. And where do you find those positive people? Go out and find them. Are they a blogger you like, a business person you are impressed by? Invite them on a show. Get to know them. Use our platform to kind of put you in front of the people that you think are going to help take your business in the next level, and use that as the lever to create better relationships with better people.
Lee Kantor: [00:00:57] And then, look at the five people on the list and go, “This person is bringing too much drama to the party,” or “They never supported my work. They’re never going out of their way to help me get business,” and then get rid of them and replace them with somebody that is willing to support and celebrate your work. The more people you have around you that are helping you grow, then you have a better chance of growing.
Lee Kantor: [00:01:22] So, only include people around you that are helping move the ball. You don’t have time to be dealing with other people’s drama. It’s just not worth it. Focus on things that are going to move the needle in your business and that primarily happens through human beings. So, add more positive people to the five people who are around you the most, and you will see everything will get better, your life will have less drama, and your business will grow.
Stone Payton: [00:01:50] And I think for that core five, at least, one of those people should be someone who has accomplished, already accomplished that which you wish to accomplish. It just makes perfect sense to include that in your group of five, I think.
Jonathan Brimer with Select Shades
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As a child, Jonathan Brimer turned his bedroom into a boutique department stores, with pricetags on everything from stuffed animals to a stereo. “Customers” – aka his parents – would come “shop” with Jonathan ringing up purchases on an adding machine and transacting with Monopoly money. At age eight, Jonathan consistently won fundraising challenges at school. At age ten, he ran a successful lemonade stand. Suffice to say, he’s always had an entrepreneurial spirit.
After declaring initially as a meteorology major, Jonathan later graduated from Florida State University’s Dedman School of hospitality and subsequently spent twelve years with Marriott International in a variety of roles. The dream of business ownership never died.
In 2014, Jonathan jumped at the opportunity to develop and grow a business niche that brought together both retail and the hospitality industries: boutique sunglass gifting experiences at corporate and incentive events. Since then, the company he now co-owns – Select Shades – has grown into five retail stores in three states and has traveled the world delivering custom, interactive sunglass experiences at meetings of all sizes and formats with nearly $3 million in revenues in 2019.
Always seeking personal and business growth while intensely dedicated to staying true to core values, Jonathan and his business partner, Jason are excited to see their Atlanta-based Select Shades organization thrive, create jobs, and create opportunities for travel and experiences for his team members.
Follow Select Shades on LinkedIn and Facebook.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
- How Jonathan got his start
- What sets Select Shades apart from Sunglass Hut
- Why Jonathan chose to open a sunglasses store
- The events side of your Select Shades
- What Select Shades is passionate about as an organization
- How Select Shades is evolving during COVID19
About Our Sponsor
OnPay’s payroll services and HR software give you more time to focus on what’s most important. Rated “Excellent” by PC Magazine, we make it easy to pay employees fast, we automate all payroll taxes, and we even keep all your HR and benefits organized and compliant.
Our award-winning customer service includes an accuracy guarantee, deep integrations with popular accounting software, and we’ll even enter all your employee information for you — whether you have five employees or 500. Take a closer look to see all the ways we can save you time and money in the back office.
Franchise Bible Coach Radio: Justin Gordon with Amramp
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Amramp’s mission is to improve the quality of life and provide safe access for people with mobility concerns where they work, live, and play.
Amramp, founded in 1998 by Julian Gordon, is a leading provider of accessibility solutions. Our signature product is steel modular wheelchair ramps, which are manufactured in Boston, Massachusetts. Other environmental adaptation solutions we provide include stairlifts, vertical platform lifts, grab bars and safety railings, and accessible home modifications.
Amramp is now run by Justin Gordon, Julian’s son. Justin, COO, joined the company 7 years ago and worked his way up through every position from the factory floor to product installations, customer service, sales, and operations.
Justin leads a team of dedicated and caring people who support our companies: the franchisor that supports and recruits franchise partners, the ramp manufacturing division, and the local franchise that helps customers in MA & RI.
Connect with Justin on LinkedIn and LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook.
About the Show
The Franchise Bible Coach Radio Podcast with Rick and Rob features no-nonsense franchise industry best practices and proprietary strategies that franchisors and 
franchise owners can implement to improve their profitability and operational efficiencies.
Our show guests are franchise superstars and everyday heroes that share their tips for growth and strategies to survive and thrive during the current challenges.
About Your Hosts
Rick Grossman has been involved in the franchise industry since 1994. He franchised his first company and grew it to 49 locations in 19 states during the mid to late 1990s. He served as the Chief Executive Officer and primary trainer focusing on franchise owner relations and creating tools and technologies to increase franchisee success.
Rick developed and launched his second franchise organization in 2003. He led this company as the CEO and CMO growing to over 150 locations in less than three years. He developed the high tech/high touch franchise recruiting and sales system.
Both companies achieved ranking on Entrepreneur Magazine’s Franchise 500 List. During this period Rick served as a business and marketing consultant to small business and multimillion dollar enterprises. He also consulted with franchise owners and prospective franchisees, franchisors, and companies seeking to franchise.
Rick had the honor of working with his mentor, Erwin Keup as a contributing Author for the 7th edition of Entrepreneur Magazine’s Franchise Bible published by Entrepreneur Press.
Mr. Grossmann has been chosen as the new Author of Franchise Bible and his 8th Edition was released worldwide in January of 2017. He currently serves as an executive coach and strategist for multiple franchise clients.
Follow Franchise Bible Coach on Facebook.
Rob Gandley has served as SeoSamba’s Vice President and Strategic Partner since 2015.
With 25 years of experience in entrepreneurship, digital marketing, sales, and technology, he continues to focus on leading the expansion of SeoSamba’s product and service capabilities and US market penetration. SeoSamba specializes in centralized marketing technology built for multi-location business models and continues to win industry awards and grow consistently year over year.
Concurrent with his work at SeoSamba, Gandley is a strategic growth consultant and CEO of FranchiseNow, a digital marketing and sales consulting firm. Gandley consults digital businesses, entrepreneurs, coaches and multi-location businesses across diverse industries. Prior to SeoSamba, he built an Internet Marketing business and platform responsible for generating over 100,000 qualified franchise development leads used by more than 400 US-based franchise brands for rapid business expansion.
Gandley also held various senior sales and management positions with IT and Internet pioneers like PSINet, AT&T, and SunGard Data Systems from (1993-2005) where he set sales records for sales and revenue growth at each company. He graduated from Pennsylvania State University’s Smeal Business School in 92’ with a BS degree in Finance and emphasis on Marketing.
Connect with Rob on LinkedIn.
Shannon Gill with Guided Ventures Group
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The Founder of GVG, Shannon Gill, has been in business and leadership for over 25 years, with the majority of that experience inside organizations from U.S. Fortune 100 companies to internet startups.
In her journey from Disney in Hong Kong to Education in Baltimore to Financial Services and Payments in Georgia and Europe, she began to search for some balance in her life and greater meaning in her work.
That led her to create Guided Ventures Group (GVG), an organization of leaders and experts who use real world experience along with newer research and ideas to act as guides for others on the path of growth and transformation.
In addition, Shannon has a passion project for empowering kids in a brand called Cosmic Kitty®. The artwork and stories which began as doodles when Shannon was only 7 have developed into a full line of character art, books and products to support educators and non-profits.
Connect with Shannon on LinkedIn and follow Guided Ventures Group on Facebook.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
- How Covid-19 has changed the nature of work
- The work trends that are here to stay
- The Grief Change Cycle and how it’s impacting work
About Our Sponsor
OnPay’s payroll services and HR software give you more time to focus on what’s most important. Rated “Excellent” by PC Magazine, we make it easy to pay employees fast, we automate all payroll taxes, and we even keep all your HR and benefits organized and compliant.
Our award-winning customer service includes an accuracy guarantee, deep integrations with popular accounting software, and we’ll even enter all your employee information for you — whether you have five employees or 500. Take a closer look to see all the ways we can save you time and money in the back office.
Beth Armknecht Miller with Executive Velocity
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Welcome to Daring To, a podcast that finds out how CEOs and entrepreneurs navigate today’s business world – the conventions they’re breaking, the challenges they’ve faced and the decisions that they’ve made, and lastly, just what makes them different.
In 2006, Beth Armknecht Miller founded Executive Velocity as an outlet for her trademark enthusiasm and energy for assisting clients with their most valuable asset – their people. Through her proven approaches, she provides expert advice on leadership capabilities and builds succession plans for organizational continuity.
Beth served as a Chair with Vistage, the most prestigious CEO and business owner peer advisory organization in the world for 13 years. As a Vistage Chair, Beth facilitated peer advisor meetings and coached business owners and executives to grow and develop in their roles and careers.
Connect with Beth on LinkedIn and Twitter.
Show Transcript
Rita Trehan: [00:00:02] Welcome to Dairy To, a podcast that finds out how CEOs and entrepreneurs navigate today’s business world, the conventions they’re breaking, the challenges they faced, and the decisions that they’ve made, and lastly, just what makes them different? Well, joining me today, what can I say, this is like, you know, being with my soulmate, right? Because we are both passionate about something that’s really important, which is leadership. So, I’m joined today by Beth Armknecht Miller, who is the CEO of the, Executive Velocity. I love the name, by the way, Executive Velocity. It almost says it all, really, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:00:42] Well, it does, yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:00:43] Yeah. But, you know, you have had an interesting career. So, here you are, sort of in this sort of leadership consulting, making companies better, but that’s not how you started your career. And I started my career in HR. And your career started in the profession, there’s often like jokes that go on about like HR and the profession that you started in.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:01:03] Finance.
Rita Trehan: [00:01:04] Yeah. So, tell me a little bit about that. So, how did you make that transition? Not many people made from finance to sort of leadership.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:01:11] Yeah. There were a number of steps. And at the time, when I was working in finance, I was working for DEC, which with Digital Equipment Corporation, lot of people listening probably never heard of it before, but the remains of it is Hewlett Packard. And I was in finance for seven years. About three years into it, I was like, you know, I’m good at this, but I’m not passionate about it. This is not where I should be. So, I was very fortunate. They were hiring people internally to develop them into salespeople. And the deal was, we’ll train you, Beth, but you have to move. We’re not going keep you up in New England. I was like, that’s fine, I’m done with winners. So, that’s how I got to Atlanta.
Rita Trehan: [00:02:06] Okay.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:02:06] And it was a great experience, great training. And when I got down here, one of the lessons I learned was that you leave managers, not companies, and I had just the worst manager down here.
Rita Trehan: [00:02:28] If he’s listening, he better takes some advice. That’s one way of saying.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:02:30] I have no idea where he is.
Rita Trehan: [00:02:33] We won’t mention his name, but we hope he’s listening because he might listen. Words of wisdom.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:02:39] Yeah. So, I made a decision to leave. Digital had been wonderful to me, but I made the decision to leave. And when I left, I met my husband. He had started an accounting temporary services firm. And so, I had left and went to Coopers & Lybrand. Again, another company that doesn’t exist anymore.
Rita Trehan: [00:03:02] I remember, though. Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:03:04] Now, PricewaterhouseCoopers. I was in sales in their technology practice and I was there for several years. But my husband convinced me to move, leave, and become an entrepreneur, which, that’s really not my comfort zone. He is much more of an entrepreneur than me.
Rita Trehan: [00:03:23] I think you’re being far too modest because the company grew to be one of like, you know, the fastest growing companies.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:03:29] Yes. Another thing that I learned about leadership doing that was my husband had certain skill sets and I had certain skill sets. They didn’t align. They were compatible. And he was able to fill certain things that I didn’t have and vice versa. So, it really made a great partnership. Believe me, there were times like it was really difficult.
Rita Trehan: [00:04:00] I was going to say, it’s like a marriage made in heaven, right? But like, you know-.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:04:04] There were times. Believe me, there were times. We always try to make sure that if we were disagreeing, it was over dinner and not in the workplace. And fast forward, we made Inc. 500, lot of fast-growing local awards as well. And then, we sold back in 2002. It was not the best time to sell, but it was the right time. My dad passed away. I was spending time going back and forth to help my mother up in the northeast. And so, I just didn’t have the energy. So, we took some time off. I was in my 40s at the time and I got bored really quickly. There was only so much volunteer work I could do.
Rita Trehan: [00:04:53] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:04:54] And so, I had gone through Leadership Atlanta, had met a lot of wonderful people there. And one of them was Dave Peterson, who had started North Highland Consulting here. A wonderful guy. And he he was the one that led me to Vistage. He had been a member for many years. And he basically said, “Beth, my Vistage group helped me through a lot of difficult times. And I got to the point where I could step away, and, you know, be on the board.” And he said, “I think you’d make a great Vistage chair.” So, that was back in ’05.
Rita Trehan: [00:05:43] And if people don’t know about Vistage, it’s actually a renowned sort of global group that offers like a huge amount of value to businesses of like small to medium sizes that people can be part of. And obviously, you know, we’re all involved in it and have been involved in it. And tell us a little bit about that, because often, like we don’t think we—you know, we focus a lot on leadership and like what corporate companies need, but actually, as a small- to medium-sized business, it’s so critical, isn’t it?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:06:11] Yes. And because I had been a business owner, I knew what I had kind of missed, and that was somebody from the outside or people from the outside that could advise you in a safe environment. And that’s what Vistage does. It brings business owners, presidents together on a monthly basis. It’s like an advisory board or a brain trust. And it allows you, in a safe place, to bring really significant issues and get advice from your peers. So, there’s no competitors. There was education involved as well. There were a lot of speakers that would come in and speak on various topics that were critical to small- to mid-sized companies. And then, there was coaching. So, each month, I would meet individually with one of the business owners in the group and coach both on leadership and business.
Rita Trehan: [00:07:16] Now, look, you strike me as somebody that’s quite humble, right? So, our listeners don’t know like you are not only an acclaimed author of a book called Talent Obsessed, you have been named a diva. I love that. I just like want to be. Like a diva in a good way, guys.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:07:28] I forgot about that.
Rita Trehan: [00:07:30] A diva in a good way. Sort of like, you know, 40 under 40 in Atlanta.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:07:34] Oh, you’ve done your research.
Rita Trehan: [00:07:36] Oh, yeah. So, I’m sort of like in awe because, you know, you come across and clearly, you are sort of a humble leader in terms of like what you have achieved over the years. But also, I’m sure that must give you so much credibility with the leadership that you go in and work with. And today, like, you know, we are both passionate about a topic that is close to our hearts, right? Which is the next generation of leaders. Every leader, you know, legacy maybe, we would like to believe that it’s developing great leadership talent.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:08:08] Exactly.
Rita Trehan: [00:08:08] The reality is we both know that, you know, sadly, that’s not always the case.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:08:13] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:08:14] It’s still the case that we can pick up a consulting report, a global report, and say like, what is it that keeps CEOs up at night, whether they’re like corporate companies or small companies? And they will say, oh, let me guess, I think like, you know—or probably, I would say the last at least 20 years that I can think of, maybe longer than that, but one of their top three issues is they’re concerned about talent.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:08:35] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:08:35] And about leadership talent. So, you know, I turn my hair out. That’s why it goes gray a lot. And I have conversations around that as sort of a strategic advisory capacity.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:08:46] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:08:46] But you’re going in and talking about that a lot. How do you get them to understand the importance of succession?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:08:53] Yeah. Oftentimes, they’ve lost somebody key. There’s pain involved. And so, that’s generally when they’re interested in succession planning. It’s not when things are going well, unfortunately. There is a company that I worked with years ago who the CEO had gotten some bad health, he had a heart problem, and he realized, you know, he was not going to live another 10 years. So, he was somebody who was proactive in succession planning.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:09:38] So, you know, he called me in to actually consult and coach his high potentials, one of them specifically who we identified as a potential president to take over. And during the three years that I was working with them, the CEO went from, you know, 80 hours a week of work down to eight hours. And he basically got the company to a point where he didn’t have to be there. And consequently, he was able to sell that company to ADP for cash. Cash. There was no earn out, which is phenomenal.
Rita Trehan: [00:10:27] It’s unusual, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:10:27] Yeah. And, you know, his key employees did very well in the sale as well.
Rita Trehan: [00:10:35] So, it is about like really developing that capability because it’s the people that have the value, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:10:40] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:10:40] What creates the value of a corporation. And I think like it seems like they almost missed out. You know, I’ve read some of your stuff where you go like, leaders that focus on sort of like the numbers kind of stuff, and that’s great, but actually, that’s not what makes the business go around.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:10:57] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:10:58] So, how have you helped them? And you’ve talked about it like you got this guy interested in succession, right? I often go in inside, like tear up the succession plan because, you know what’s going to happen. You’re going to look at it and like, you know, you’re going to put all these names to it, and then you’re going to have a problem, and you can go outside and recruit. So, what was the point in spending all that time doing it? So, how do you help guide them through a process that they—because there must be a process that you use to help them do that, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:11:19] Well, initially, I’ll go in and we’ll assess their readiness for a succession plan.
Rita Trehan: [00:11:26] Interesting. Talk about that a little bit.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:11:27] Yeah. So, you know, there are there are some key components to a succession plan that a lot of small to mid-sized companies don’t have. A lot of large companies do. But it’s things like understanding your core competencies, understanding leadership competencies. And so, that might be an entire project right there because they don’t have those. And that can also help for hiring purposes, not just for succession planning, hiring and performance. They might not have identified key positions for today and key positions that they need in three years. And when they do that exercise, they’ll often find out that there are positions that they need that they aren’t on the org chart right now.
Rita Trehan: [00:12:18] Right.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:12:18] Right. And then it’s, okay, we’ve identified the key positions, and sometimes, they’re not at the C-suite. They’re somewhere down farther. There might be some subject matter expert that holds the keys to the castle. And they have nobody that’s prepared to take that position. And there’s a risk. I often talk about succession planning being risk management.
Rita Trehan: [00:12:48] That’s a great way to describe it, yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:12:50] You know, you are creating a plan for success in the future and you never know when there might be somebody that, God forbid, dies, gets disabled, decides to go to a competitor, and you’ve got to have that that plan in place and have those people that you’ve identified that could potentially move into the position ready. And so then, there’s all about development and training.
Rita Trehan: [00:13:24] Yeah. And how hard is that, though, for a leader of a small to mid-sized company to go like, you know what, I’m going to like develop these people, and they’re actually going to be ready, I like didn’t do my job, well, I don’t know that I’m ready for that? How do you get them comfortable with that?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:13:41] Well then, that’s a discussion with the CEO about, okay, where is your identity? Is your identity in the organization? What are the things you are involved with? For instance, this gentleman who had a heart problem. Now, I don’t run into that situation a lot, fortunately. But in his situation, his identity for years had been that company. Well, what was he ignoring? It was his family, right? So, he started shifting. He started more travel with his wife, more family get-togethers. So, he shifted his identity. Too often, nine times out of ten, that’s the discussion that the business owner is fearful because the company has his or her identity.
Rita Trehan: [00:14:38] Yeah, that’s a really interesting point. And, you know, we’ve been through several weeks, you know, couple of months now of sort of lockdown. And that has had a massive effect, by form, like large companies, but even more so on those small and medium-sized companies.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:14:53] Yes.
Rita Trehan: [00:14:53] And, you know, I can’t help feeling that there’s going to have to be—and, you know, you read about it all the time that we’re seeing shift in what’s important from leaders today and what they need to be focusing on, which is, yes, get your business up and running, but, you know, you just talked about somebody that spent more time with family while some people are realizing that they’ve been missing out just by being at home.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:15:16] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:15:17] There’s leaders right now that are trying to think about how do I, you know, restart, new normal, whatever. Like what do you think their focus should be as leaders in trying to restart or reconnect their businesses?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:15:32] Yeah. Well, I think through this this challenging time, I’ve noticed that leaders, good leaders are really focused on employee well-being. And that’s not to say, they’re not focused on results, but pre-COVID, they were focused on results first, and then relationships. And I think that’s flipped. Now, as we move into that recovery phase and companies are already starting to go back to work and in a phased approach, client I was just talking to in Florida yesterday was talking about this, and you got to make sure that people feel safe.
Rita Trehan: [00:16:18] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:16:18] Right. If they don’t feel safe and they’re anxious, they’re not going to perform. So, why even ask them to come back if they feel that way? I was just writing a blog the other day about the fact that today is even more important for leaders to use their emotional intelligence and to really understand what individuals are going through, and then be really clear of, here are our plans, here are our backup plans if something should happen, right? This company in Florida happens to be in a county that they’ve just peaked.
Rita Trehan: [00:17:04] Right.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:17:05] Right. And they’ve got a lot of individuals who are stay-at-home moms, people that are taking care of the elderly. So, they’ve phased it where, okay, if you don’t have any kids, you know, you’re single, young, well, you’re the first phase that we’d like to come, but that’s not to say that that’s a blanket, right? Okay. Be aware when you’re having conversation, and of course, it’s going to be video. It’s going to be good old Zoom. Everybody is tired of hearing Zoom. But anyways, be really conscious of the tone of their voice, body language, and their-
Rita Trehan: [00:18:00] At least connecting to them, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:18:00] Right. Exactly.
Rita Trehan: [00:18:00] Like making that connection is quite hard virtually in some ways, right? It’s like we’ve kind of done it in the past a bit, but like not with a real focus on, actually, this is our only way, of communicating.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:18:13] Exactly.
Rita Trehan: [00:18:14] Normally, it’s been, well, I’m going to have this virtual teleconference, but I know I’m going to see this person in two days, so I can follow up with them in person. That’s a whole capability set that maybe leaders haven’t really honed.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:18:27] Right. Exactly.
Rita Trehan: [00:18:28] So, what kind of advice or tips do you have for them to kind of hone that capability?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:18:33] Yeah. I think there’s, first of all, get real with your self-awareness.
Rita Trehan: [00:18:43] I love that. Get real with your—I love that, yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:18:45] Yeah. And, you know, how are you showing up to the people that you’re leading? And, you know, if you’re fearful, they’re going to know that, right? So, you’re to have that courage to be out in front of it. And then, you know, there are people around you that you trust and respect, ask for their feedback. What can I be doing differently? And make sure that when you ask and you listen to their feedback that you do something with it.
Rita Trehan: [00:19:17] Yeah. That’s really great advice, I think, because it’s very actionable for leaders to be able to put in practice. And often, I think there is going to be like some massive thing that it’s like, my God, how am I going to be able to like do that? That’s like so out of my comfort zone. But actually, what you’re saying is like just be in touch with yourself in some ways.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:19:37] Exactly. Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:19:39] So, how do you help companies also, you know, you’ve talked about it, some people are going to be nervous, some people are going to be like, you know what, I’m ready to go back. That’s all good. It’s almost like we’re going to have this melting pot, I feel, of all these different like feelings and emotions.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:19:53] That’s right.
Rita Trehan: [00:19:54] And so, this whole thing about like diversity, for me, takes on a completely different meaning, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:20:01] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:20:01] What do you think about that? Like how can companies sort of address that in the longer term? Because I think it’s bringing to the full, in a good way maybe, how to think about diversity and strengths of that.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:20:14] Yeah. You know, I’m hopeful that, you know, we come out of this as leaders focused on a different set of priorities. You know, there’s been a lot of talk over the last 10, 15 years about culture, and values, and purpose, and I think that-
Rita Trehan: [00:20:37] A lot of talk, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:20:38] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:20:38] You and I both know there’s a lot of talk, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:20:40] Exactly.
Rita Trehan: [00:20:40] We want it to be different, but it’s a bit of talk.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:20:42] It is. It is. And I think there are some companies that do that very well, but not a lot. And I think the leaders that have gone through this, they’ve learned a lot. And they’ve learned a lot about their teams. They’ve learned a lot about themselves. And I would be hopeful that on the other side of this that they continue to focus on the people first, and then through that, they’re going to get the results.
Rita Trehan: [00:21:16] And in terms of like developing the next generation of leaders that think like that, right? Because I think, you know, through every crisis or every sort of, I guess, misfortune comes opportunity.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:21:29] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:21:29] And I think actually, COVID-19 is surfacing a massive amount of opportunity for businesses to actually step back, rethink, and reshape in a way that they’ve not been had that kind of burning platform to do. So, that that must help when you think about developing the next generation of leaders.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:21:50] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:21:51] How do you get companies to buy into that, and not get sucked into, we’re a month back in and the numbers are not looking good, and I just need to focus on that because that’s the most important thing.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:22:02] Yeah. Clearly, it’s more difficult with a small- to mid-sized companies because they don’t have the resources that a Coca-Cola has or UPS. So, really, it’s about, okay, what are the demands of those individuals coming back? Because I think that a lot of them are going to be looking at work differently and looking at the company differently. So, I would be working with those C-suite to determine, okay, kind of looking out in the future again, okay, we’ve gone through all of this, what have you really learned? And what are you going to put into practice that makes sense for your organization? And what do you need to stop doing?
Rita Trehan: [00:22:59] Yeah. It’s interesting, right? I wonder how many companies are thinking right now about all the things that they have like constantly done that actually, they haven’t missed, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:23:10] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:23:10] The reports that they had written, all the meetings that they’ve had that actually, we haven’t really missed it that much.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:23:18] Right. Exactly. Even for people going back to work, you know, they were managing it through these eight weeks or whatever, and do you really need to have these people coming back to work? Now, some of them want to go back to work because their kids are still at home, right? But there are others that, you know, have that fear. So, you’ve got to do that delicate balance to make sure that the people that are there at work really need to be there and want to be there.
Rita Trehan: [00:23:56] Yeah. So, I read in the newspaper yesterday coming from the UK that one of the most prestigious universities equivalent to like where you did your leadership, at Harvard, in the UK, that’s kind of Cambridge University, announced that for their next year, they are going to run all their courses virtually.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:24:16] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:24:16] Virtually.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:24:16] And I heard that here in the States, they’re talking about bringing the kids back to university in the fall through Thanksgiving. And then, once Thanksgiving hits, they’re going to go online, which is very interesting.
Rita Trehan: [00:24:35] Right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:24:36] Right. It’s a whole new dynamic.
Rita Trehan: [00:24:37] Yeah. So, like what does it mean for leaders?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:24:39] Right. So, you know, you’ve got to rethink how you operate. Now, there are some professional white-collar companies. This has been a series of changes constantly as you got information. And they’ve been able to run. And now, some of them had to—like health care, for instance, there have been a lot of layoffs there. In retail, can’t do it, right? But as it relates to those kinds of white-collar jobs, there are a lot of ways that you can be operating differently moving forward.
Rita Trehan: [00:25:21] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:25:21] You’ve got technology. It’s not like this happened—can you imagine if this happened 20 years ago?
Rita Trehan: [00:25:27] I cannot imagine like how we would have coped with like lack of information and just sort of, you know, it would have been, obviously, we would’ve found a way to cope, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:25:36] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:25:37] Because like human beings are, you know, like all kind of entrepreneurial, they find ways to cope.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:25:42] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:25:42] Whether we believe it or not, we have, in a sense, like of survival and like ability to deal with an uncertainty in why some people do it better than others, but we have an instinct that will help us get through it. But like you, I cannot imagine without the use of technology. If anything, it has probably sped it up, the use of technology.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:26:02] Right. Yes, I think so.
Rita Trehan: [00:26:04] But I can’t help but imagine that lots of leaders are really scared right now because this is like a new paradigm.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:26:11] Yes.
Rita Trehan: [00:26:11] And it’s almost like turning that page on that new paradigm is you’re not quite sure if you’re going to like what you see.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:26:17] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:26:18] Because you’ve got this comfort zone. So, you must have had to deal with that in the past, you know, in different sort scenarios of getting leaders to get comfortable of like not being in their comfort zone.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:26:29] Yeah. It’s kind of stretching them and being comfortable with failure. You know, failure is actually a friend because you learn from it. I mean, if everything was perfect-
Rita Trehan: [00:26:45] Boring.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:26:45] Boring, very boring. So, one of the things that I’ve been doing personally is, you know, everybody’s making bread.
Rita Trehan: [00:26:55] Oh, God.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:26:56] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:26:57] I have friends that like sending me pictures of them making bread. I’m like, okay, guys, what is this all about?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:27:01] Okay. Well, I was one of them.
Rita Trehan: [00:27:03] Okay. I want to know. I’m like curious.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:27:05] And I had heard that yeast, you couldn’t find yeast. So, I thought, well, I’m going to do sour dough, but you have to get a sour-dough starter. So, I went on in Google, found this recipe. And they said, “Five days, you’re going to have a starter.” It didn’t happen in five days. And so, I kept feeding it, and I finally grew impatient. I’m like, I’m just going to make this bread. Well, it turned into a block. It was of course-
Rita Trehan: [00:27:36] You can use it for other things, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:27:38] Yeah, bird food or something. So, I continued to feed it, and three or four days later, I thought, I’m going to try this again. Well, it was a little better, but it was by no means what it looked like in the pictures. So, you know, I realized that I was impatient and I needed to slow down. So, I named my starter, Dudley do right.
Rita Trehan: [00:28:08] Dudley Do Right. I’ll text that to my friends.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:28:09] So, he was Dudley for a long time.
Rita Trehan: [00:28:14] Right.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:28:14] I slowed down and he finally became, Do Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:28:18] Do Right. I love it. I got it.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:28:20] So, just the other day, you have to do this float test to make sure that the starter floats, and that means it’s active and ready to mix, and stuff like that. So, I did the whole process. You have to let it sit overnight. It’s a long process. Well, I opened the oven and I yelled. I was so excited. It really looked like bread and it tasted good. And that was all about failure. Two times, I didn’t give up, and I kept working at it, and I felt so proud.
Rita Trehan: [00:29:03] I can just see it in your face, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:29:04] I know.
Rita Trehan: [00:29:04] It’s like, wow.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:29:05] I was so excited. I was running. I brought it down to my mother, my mother took a picture of it because they had been living through this whole thing, too.
Rita Trehan: [00:29:13] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:29:13] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:29:13] But I mean, that’s a really good way to describe it, you know, that failure is a friend, and it’s about like understanding your own sort of, I guess, your preferences or your limitations in the sense like, look, you went like, I’m really just impatient, like I’m not used to having to like write something and not see it like work.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:29:30] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:29:30] It’s like, come on, I like followed the instructions, like what else is there to do, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:29:33] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:29:33] And so, it is a skill that we struggle with in society, that being able to accept failure as a friend is something that we find hard to do.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:29:48] Yes. Especially leaders, because they’re out in front and their mindset is, they should have all the answers, but they don’t. That’s why they have a team around them, right? One of the things that I work on often with leaders, especially new leaders, is they’re always trying to solve the problem versus coaching somebody through a problem so that, that person is actually solving the problem themselves. So, they’re basically enabling people to keep coming to them for problems. I like it to, you know, teach them to fish, don’t keep throwing them the fish.
Rita Trehan: [00:30:29] Yeah, I know that. I have to practice that so much because like, I want to help that, oh, yeah, I know how to solve that.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:30:34] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:30:34] And it takes a lot of like actually like self-reflection, like step back from it, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:30:40] But you also have to slow down because it’s really easy if you’ve got the solution to throw that fish. You have to slow down and ask the questions, get that person to self-reflect, and come to their own solution because they’ll own that solution.
Rita Trehan: [00:31:00] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:31:01] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:31:01] And so, like new leaders, I think that is such valuable advice because there is sort of like, I’m a new leader, look at me, like, you know, everyone’s eyes are on them, they want to be able to perform. But there’s a lot that’s going on right now, and people are talking about it more and more, which heartens me about leaders being humble, about humility being really, really important, that actually, vulnerability is a strength, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:31:26] Yes.
Rita Trehan: [00:31:27] It’s not what we have been brought up with. Like, you know, I can remember years ago working in a big corporate world where it was, you know, how many times she slapped your hands down on the table and swore was, like, you know, showed like how great a leader you were, you know. And I’m like, I was, you know, a young individual contributor, leader at the time as well, being like, in HR, going like, this is what we’re talking about leaders should look like?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:31:56] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:31:56] That’s not necessarily a great sort of role model. Now, we are hearing much more about the need for leaders to do to show vulnerability.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:32:08] Yeah, especially now, right? Because everybody, leaders and their employees are all dealing with this. And so, you know, nobody has the right solution.
Rita Trehan: [00:32:23] Yeah, that’s true actually. Nobody does, right? So, maybe, that’s what’s helping to encourage that humility that there isn’t like a single silver bullet or a single answer to know where to go forward.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:32:35] Yeah. But I hear a lot from leaders that, you know, we’re trying to be transparent. You know, we’re trying to communicate on a very regular basis. They do, you know, a lot of town halls where the CEO is out front versus having the managers deliver, and that makes employees feel a lot more comfortable and safe, that they’re hearing it directly from the person that either owns the company or is leading that company.
Rita Trehan: [00:33:11] Now, you’re a certified coach, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:33:12] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:33:12] So, you’ve spent a lot time sort of coaching leaders and high potentials, as to, you know, helping them sort of grow and develop.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:33:19] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:33:19] Over the years as you’ve coached people, what do you think of like the biggest areas where you see, like these are absolutely core skills that leaders will—you know, that I really focus on coaching leaders? And what are ones that you go like, these are just like you can spot these like capabilities a mile off and say, you know, you’re just not going to make it as a leader because one of the other things, I think, the companies struggles with is making that choice about a leader and whether they should be a leader in the first place or if they are a leader, making that call to say, actually, you know what, maybe there’s a different role somewhere else.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:33:57] Yeah. I actually just had this conversation recently on a podcast. And, you know, oftentimes, companies will have a subject matter expert who’s really great at what they’re doing and they make the decision that we’re going to put them into a leadership position. There is a big difference between performance and potential. Most high performers don’t have the potential to go into a leadership position.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:34:31] One of the things I encourage leaders to do is have a conversation with subject matter experts about what do they believe leadership is. If they hear them talk about management and not leadership, there is a problem. Leaders are really—great leaders develop future leaders. They are there to make their team shine. And it’s not—yeah, it’s about results, but it’s through the individuals.
Rita Trehan: [00:35:16] And have you sort of like—from your own experience, you grew a business, you, you know, grew it to be an amazing business that was then sold in value. I mean, is that something you put—like what are some of your personal sort of memories and stories around that? Because you have such a good grasp of what’s important in leadership, that how much of that has come from your own sort of experiences in growing and going through some of those situations?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:35:42] You know, I have to say that I wish I had a lot of the wisdom that I have today than I did 20 years ago. I made a lot of mistakes, a lot of mistakes. But they’re valuable now, right? I think about some of the leaders that I’ve worked with in the past couple of years, and what brings me joy is to see them grow. One comes to mind. I still work with her. She was two or three levels down in the organization from the CEO and she had kind of hit her peak, and it was because of her emotional intelligence. She had real trouble self-managing her emotions. She could get angry pretty quickly, especially with other departments.
Rita Trehan: [00:36:43] Right.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:36:43] So, their CEO called me, and I did an assessment, and I was pleased to see that she was highly goal-oriented and very competitive. So, I thought, well, you know, she’s got the profile where because she’s so goal-oriented inch and she knew, she was self-aware enough to know that this was holding her back that I agreed to work with her. And it was amazing. She now is two levels above. She reports directly with the CEO and she’s like, of course, my biggest fan, and she’s always calling me to coach other high potentials, but it’s about being self-aware and that whole emotional intelligence that is critical to leadership. That’s one of the things that I find. The other is communication.
Rita Trehan: [00:37:43] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:37:43] And being able to communicate the vision and connecting the employee to that vision. How do they fit? You know, what’s the customer service rep? How do they impact the long-term vision? How important is that?
Rita Trehan: [00:38:02] Yeah. Do you think that that’s become, people have been able to connect more to a company’s vision during this COVID crisis? Because of the focus on communities, and customers, and that, do you think that people are sort of connecting much more to their organizations if they are putting that time and attention into that area?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:38:18] Yes, I believe so. And I was actually on a webinar a couple weeks ago with DDI, and they had been doing some research on employee engagement. And it is actually gone up over this-
Rita Trehan: [00:38:31] Yeah. Someone mentioned that, yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:38:32] And yeah. And initially, it was kind of counter-intuitive. I was like, really? But then, when you started hearing about the time that, you know, CEOs and leaders were putting in to the relationships with their employees, it made sense.
Rita Trehan: [00:38:48] Yeah. Those will be the winning companies that come out of this, you know, small, medium, large are the ones that have actually put that investment in.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:38:55] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:38:55] But let’s talk a bit like you got a great story about like helping a female leader sort of rise up the ranks. Obviously, we are two women who run our own businesses, who offer that. And then, we have other women that do that. But, you know, it’s still a struggle for organizations today to have like sufficient representation of women leaders at various levels. I don’t care of the size of the company. It’s a problem wherever we look at it. And yes, there’s lots of efforts being put into that. How do we solve it?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:39:26] Oh, my gosh. If I knew how to solve it-
Rita Trehan: [00:39:30] Yeah. We’d all be like, yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:39:33] Right. Exactly.
Rita Trehan: [00:39:33] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:39:33] Exactly. Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:39:34] Okay. So, like look-
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:39:35] You know, it’s obviously a gradual thing. I think that, you know, we’ve got a generation coming up who are demanding it more, right? They have a different perspective than our generation. And so, I think we’re getting there. You know, you’ve got a whole baby boomer group that’s about ready to retire, right? So, you’ve got leaders coming in who are X’ers or millennials that will bring that to the table.
Rita Trehan: [00:40:16] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:40:16] So, you know, you can’t force it. You can’t mandate it, unfortunately.
Rita Trehan: [00:40:23] And that wouldn’t work, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:40:24] No.
Rita Trehan: [00:40:25] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:40:26] Exactly. So, I’m hopeful.
Rita Trehan: [00:40:28] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:40:28] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:40:29] And clearly, I guess people like the individuals that you’ve got are sort of spokespeople, and sponsors, and ambassadors for what is actually achievable that we don’t often think. And sometimes, as women in organizations, about our own capabilities and what we actually bring to the table and can deliver.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:40:46] And I think it also depends on, you know, the leaders in the organization today. Like for instance, the gentleman that is the CEO to this woman, he was always trying to promote diversity. It was a cornerstone of his. A big part of it was he had girls, daughters, right?
Rita Trehan: [00:41:14] It does make a difference like when you say that to the leaders, doesn’t it? When you say to them like, it’s your daughter, or your granddaughter, or your friend’s daughter, those are the people that are going to be around, what do you want them to-
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:41:28] Yeah. And I look at that. I look back on the leaders that I had, that I admired, and many of them had daughters.
Rita Trehan: [00:41:38] Yeah. Yeah. That’s an interesting insight.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:41:40] Yes.
Rita Trehan: [00:41:41] That makes a difference because they can connect to that.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:41:43] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:41:44] So, tell us what it’s like being—I mean, clearly, it’s passion that’s taking you to set up the organization and to move that forward. As you think about leaders that want to set up their own businesses or to think about, can I actually do this and how do you help, what would you say to them? What’s your advice to them around, here are some of the things to think about whether you’ve got what it takes to be able to do that?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:42:09] Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of skill sets that you need. If you’re going out on your own, you know, what’s your network like? You know, how is your sales skills? What’s your fear level, your anxiety? What’s your risk factor? There are individuals that I’ve met that think about it, but never quite do it. There’s also the personal situation. You’ve got, you know, three kids at home, are you willing to step away and try this on your own when you have mouths to feed, right? We never had kids.
Rita Trehan: [00:42:55] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:42:55] So, it was a much easier decision to go out on our own versus some other situation.
Rita Trehan: [00:43:05] Yeah. So, kind of like make that balance choice and just make sure you do the kind of pros and cons of what you’re doing and make sure you’ve got kind of what you have said that companies need to do today, is make sure you’ve got those backup plans in place that help support you as you go forward.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:43:22] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:43:22] And what’s your hope for the small or medium-sized companies coming out of COVID-19 would you say? And how leaders are—we’ve talked about like what some of the things that we want leaders to be doing in terms of well-being and that, but what’s your hope for things that will be different? What do you want organizations to look like, per se?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:43:38] You know, my hope is that leaders remain open-minded to what has occurred, the changes that have taken place, and self-reflect as to what are those things that we want to keep, what are the things that we stopped and we just need to keep stopped, if that’s a word.
Rita Trehan: [00:44:05] Don’t start them again, yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:44:06] Exactly.
Rita Trehan: [00:44:07] Don’t fall into bad habits, guys.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:44:08] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:44:09] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:44:09] And what do we need to do more of? And I’m hoping that it’s on that talent people side. And that will then drive the results.
Rita Trehan: [00:44:23] Do you have the view on how much time leaders should be spending on talent and people in terms of their—there’s lots of research or statistics that say like, you know, they spend 60% to 70%, and I say, “Really? Come on. Like, you know, you may think you do, but do you really?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:44:39] Yeah, especially small to mid-sized companies.
Rita Trehan: [00:44:43] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:44:43] You know, the smaller you get, the more that, that CEO is wearing a couple of hats, right? They don’t have an assistant. You know, they’re taking care of their calendar and travel arrangements if they travel. And so, it really depends. I would like to say that if you’re in that kind of 50 employees to 500 employees, which is where I generally work, that you’re spending at least 25% of your time.
Rita Trehan: [00:45:19] Yeah. Sounds about good. Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:45:20] Yeah. So, that’s like doing one-to-ones on a consistent basis, mentoring, all those things.
Rita Trehan: [00:45:29] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:45:29] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:45:30] I often have this view, and I’ve written about it a lot, I tend to have a lot of opinions about lots of things, and one of them is about sort of startup organizations and how typically, when a startup starts up, the first hire that they try to do is probably the finance role, and there’s a legal role, and then it’s sales, and yet, they don’t think about hiring like the talent leader that helps assist that CEO, who is spending so much time on it, that actually, what you need them to be doing is focusing on setting the culture, establishing the priorities.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:46:05] Right.
Rita Trehan: [00:46:05] It’s almost like it’s an afterthought.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:46:08] It is.
Rita Trehan: [00:46:08] Why?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:46:11] Well, I think that they’re so focused on generating profits, right? In order to get additional investments, et cetera, they need to see results. But one of the things that I also see when they’re hiring those individuals is oftentimes, they will hire their mirror.
Rita Trehan: [00:46:33] Oh, let’s talk about that. I love talking about that subject because we it a lot, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:46:37] Yeah. Then, you got, you know, three or four people sitting around the table that are just like you.
Rita Trehan: [00:46:44] It’s like that song, isn’t it? I want to walk like you, talk like you.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:46:46] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:46:46] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:46:47] Exactly. And that’s really not what you want because then, you got to group-
[00:46:51] think and it’s not as innovative or collaborative. Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:46:59] How do you help, from a selection standpoint, them to like look at that perspective and making sure, you know, you are not hiring a mirror image of yourself, and really testing the boundaries, it’s a diverse perspective that’s coming in.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:47:14] Right. Well, when we’re talking about small companies, I’ll use an assessment called Business DNA, which actually is a local firm here. The research came out at Georgia Tech. And it helps to identify those natural talents, those things that were formed between zero and three. That doesn’t mean that you show up like that all the time because as you get experience, you realize you need to shift. But what it does do is it shows your go-to talent when you’re under stress. Well, we’ve been under a lot of stress, right?
Rita Trehan: [00:47:48] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:47:50] I was doing some work with a staffing firm here in town, and we went in and assessed the team. And it was just like we talked about. There was five out of the six, all had a similar profile. And the sixth one, this poor woman, she felt like she was a duck out of water because she was really planned and scheduled, and here with this bunch of spontaneous folks.
Rita Trehan: [00:48:21] Yeah. It would be driving her crazy.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:48:22] Oh, it did. It did. But going through the assessment, it made her feel better, right? That okay, I’m not crazy, right? But what it did do was it then opened up the conversation of, okay, you have some positions you’re going to be hiring for, what do we need to be looking for to make this team more diverse so you don’t have that group-think and you’re not driving this poor woman crazy?
Rita Trehan: [00:48:51] Yeah. That’s a great insight. So, like teams actually reflecting on what capabilities they have today, and then saying, well, how can we like, you know, augment that in a way that makes us more rounded and grounded to be able to grow, right?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:49:04] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:49:04] When you say, great leaders growing great people, there was a quote that actually was in one of your blogs, which obviously came from somewhere, but it sort of, I think, personified for me something that I think would resonate with leaders a lot. I probably won’t get it exactly right, but it was about as open pencils. And we are, you know, like a pencil, we’re guided by the hand, the hand that the pencil holds, the hand that holds the pencil, and that every one of us always needs to sharpen up a pencil, right? So, it’s almost like you’re like sharpening your skills, constantly doing that.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:49:42] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:49:43] That’s hard, isn’t it, like to constantly do that?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:49:46] So, that is one of the things that I encourage leaders to understand about those individuals that they’re hiring. Are they learners? Because in today’s world, if you’re not hiring learners, you’re going to grow past them, and especially in small companies. You’re going to grow past them, and then you’re going to have to make a decision, does this person fit our organization now?
Rita Trehan: [00:50:19] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:50:19] I mean, we had that happen several times with our company in the early days. And it was hard. I mean, because these individuals had joined us early on, but they weren’t learners, they weren’t adjusting to change, and they they no longer fit.
Rita Trehan: [00:50:37] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:50:39] It’s really hard because we’ve felt a sense of loyalty, but we weren’t doing them a favor by having them stay.
Rita Trehan: [00:50:49] And actually, one of my previous guests, the CEO of, you know, tech companies, several tech companies, and, you know, spun them off, said exactly the same thing, which is, you know, from his own experience about how hard it was to transition from both to him, personally, but then also, for the team in terms of like knowing the skills that you need to do one thing may not be the skills you need in a different sort of, you know, time period in an organization. And that’s so hard to get people to think that, but I do think it’s really worth reinforcing. And, you know, again, I encourage listeners to always go back and like listen to a couple of bits of the podcast.
Rita Trehan: [00:51:23] This is one of them. It says, like, you know, go back, and reflect, and really think about the capabilities that your team has. And as you hire, think about what you are doing around that, and do listen to the story about like the bread because failure is your friend, like I mean, just get that first, right? Failure is a friend. I think it would be so important to sort of resonate. I ask everyone that comes on the podcast what their daring to moment is. I mean, I imagine that you must’ve had loads, right? Because like taking to businesses to success, maybe it has to do with being a diva, I don’t know, maybe it’s being 40 under 40, maybe it’s where you are now. What is it?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:51:57] You know, I am one of those people that looks to the future. I’m not looking in the past kind of girl. I’ve got a brother who is, so it’s a real challenge talking to him. But I think it’s today.
Rita Trehan: [00:52:12] Yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:52:12] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:52:13] That’s a great daring to, yeah.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:52:15] Yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:52:16] Fabulous. Beth, if people want to know more about what you do, how can they get in touch with you, the work that you do around leadership development, to selection, and just making companies perform better, what’s the best way for them to contact you?
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:52:29] Well, I think the two ways are LinkedIn, so Beth Armknecht Miller, it’s A-R-M-K-N-E-C-H-T, there’s only one of us, and then my website, executive-velocity.com. I have a lot of free resources out there on hiring leadership and succession planning.
Rita Trehan: [00:52:50] That’s great. And obviously, you’ve got book called Talent Obsessed.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:52:53] I’ve got my book, Are You Talent Obsessed, yeah.
Rita Trehan: [00:52:55] Yeah. I love the title.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:52:56] Which is now in hard copy. For years, I just had it as an e-book, so that’s available on Amazon.
Rita Trehan: [00:53:02] And everybody should be talent-obsessed.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:53:03] Yes.
Rita Trehan: [00:53:03] That’s what I believe. But I hope listeners, if you’ve enjoyed listening to this show, then please leave your review and let us know. It’s been great having you as a guest today. Thank you so much. My kindred spirit has been with me today. So, thank you very much.
Beth Armknecht Miller: [00:53:14] Well, thank you. It’s been a pleasure.
Rita Trehan: [00:53:17] Thanks for listening. Enjoyed the conversation? Make sure you subscribe so you don’t miss out on future episodes of Daring To. Also, check out our website, dareworldwide.com for some great resources around business in general, leadership, and how to bring about change. See you next time.
