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Sprolls Desserts: Crafting a Legacy One Sweet Potato Spring Roll at a Time

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Atlanta Business Radio
Atlanta Business Radio
Sprolls Desserts: Crafting a Legacy One Sweet Potato Spring Roll at a Time
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In this episode of Atlanta Business Radio, Lee Kantor speaks with Cynthia Washington, owner of Sprolls, a unique dessert business based on a 40-year-old family recipe. Cynthia transformed her grandmother’s sweet potato filling into a creative dessert by wrapping it in spring rolls, adding a special glaze and icing. After retiring, she launched the business in 2018, building a loyal following through festivals. Cynthia discusses challenges including manufacturing, funding, and scaling, while exploring opportunities with retailers, cruise lines, and franchises.

Cynthia Washington is a 69-year-old retired federal and airline professional whose lifelong passion for entrepreneurship has been a defining thread throughout her journey. From an early age, she demonstrated a natural drive to create, build, and innovate—an ambition that remained steadfast even as she dedicated decades of service to her career.

A resilient survivor of significant medical challenges that defied conventional expectations, her story is one of perseverance, strength, and unwavering determination. Her experiences have not only shaped her character but have also fueled her commitment to pursuing her entrepreneurial dreams.

She is the proud owner of Sprolls, a brand that brings a fresh perspective to a cherished tradition. As the creator of the original sweet potato spring roll dessert, she has skillfully blended heritage with innovation, introducing her signature sweet potato glaze and a variety of flavored icings. Through Sprolls, she continues to honor the past while redefining it for a modern audience, embodying the spirit of creativity and resilience that has guided her life.

Follow Sprolls on Facebook.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Origin of the sweet potato filling recipe from a family tradition.
  • Transition from a federal government and airline career to entrepreneurship.
  • Creation of a unique dessert by combining sweet potato filling with spring roll wraps.
  • Initial sales at local festivals and the development of a loyal customer base.
  • Challenges faced in scaling the business, including manufacturing and funding.
  • Exploration of investment options and the desire to maintain control over the business.
  • Current promotional strategies, primarily through festivals and word of mouth.
  • Potential for expanding into catering and corporate contracts.
  • Interest in partnerships with local franchises and restaurants.
  • Online presence and community engagement through social media and crowdfunding efforts.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studio in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio, brought to you by Kennesaw State University’s Executive MBA program, the Accelerated Degree program for working professionals looking to advance their career and enhance their leadership skills. And now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, CSU’s executive MBA program. Without them, we wouldn’t be sharing these important stories. Today on the show, we have the owner of Sprolls, Cynthia Washington. Welcome.

Intro: Hello.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am so excited for everyone to know about Sprolls. Cynthia, do you mind just sharing a little bit about this amazing dessert?

Cynthia Washington: Well, I started out by doing the filling, what, probably 40 years ago, the sweet potatoes as a side dish for family and friends. Free, of course. And I did it for years and then decided one day to try something new. And I added them in spring roll wraps and it went from there. And I say, oh, I’ve always wanted to be a businesswoman, an entrepreneur, since I was a child. And here I was, um, retired from the federal government and working for the airlines. So I decided, you know, hey, let’s make them and sell them locally. It got to be overwhelming. Okay. I didn’t think spring roll making spring rolls would be that overwhelming, but it was. So it stepped back. I incorporated the business and I started doing festivals and they were so successful. Now we’re looking for a way to grow, and that’s where we are right now. But it’s an old tradition with a new twist. That’s what I call it.

Lee Kantor: So let’s go back to the very, very beginning. So you have a family sweet potato recipe that everyone loves and your family. Is that the kind of the genesis of this whole thing?

Cynthia Washington: Yes. My grandmother used to make the best sweet potato pies and in the world. And I took the filling that she made. And because I’ve never been a crust lover. And so I decided to do just the filling, um, as a side dish, you know, Thanksgiving and Christmas for holidays. And it was, it was really a hit. People would call me and say, hey, don’t forget, got to do my potatoes this year. And I decided to to incorporate something different. So I took it a little further than grandma.

Lee Kantor: So then what was the how did you come up with, hey, why don’t I throw this in the spring roll?

Cynthia Washington: Um, I’m just that creative. And I decided, wow, I’m going to try this because I lived in Japan for like 4 or 5 years. And so I decided to do that because, you know, I love the spring rolls period, but I, I hadn’t encountered any desert spring rolls. And so I decided to do something different. And I tried it with my son and his wife and they loved it. And it went from there.

Lee Kantor: So was it on the first try? You just took the filling, put it in a spring roll, wrapped it up and then put it, fried it up. And then you were like, this is delicious. Let’s. Or were there some iterations of it of the recipe?

Cynthia Washington: No. Well, um, I did. I did it with this. The sweet potatoes. But we also did other flavors, like banana pudding. Um, we actually made banana pudding by, you know, from scratch. And it was nothing was by can or anything. We did everything fresh. Um, we peel the potatoes and did everything and so we, we just got overwhelmed. So we decided to stick with the sweet potatoes for now and then go back to the other flavors that we had. And we and I decided to make a glade, uh, a sweet potato glaze, right. And flavored icing to go on it also. And that was a big hit. You know, the people were asking for the icing separately and the glaze because with the glaze, you can use it on, um, French fries, ice cream pound cake. You can use it on different things, and it just really makes what you add it to really, really creative and delicious.

Lee Kantor: And that’s how you consume spring rolls. You dunk it in sauce like so that all makes sense.

Cynthia Washington: Right? Yes. Well, when we’re at the festivals, um, we um, pay the, the, the glaze and put it on there for the customer and then put the icing and then shake the little, um, cinnamon sugar on top. And so that’s the completion of it.

Lee Kantor: So what was, were you nervous at first at that first festival when you were like, well, I hope this works like, uh, you know, works for my family, but, uh, these are strangers now.

Cynthia Washington: Right? Very, very, very nervous because when we were looking around, we were thinking, these country folks are not gonna like nothing like this. Sweet potatoes in a spring roll. Oh, no, we’re not going to do well. But those people were. And I say those people with much love because they embraced it the first time they tried it. It was like we had customers coming back and saying how good they were. And that was in 2018, the first time we went, and they’ve been coming repeat customers. Every year we get new customers that come back repeatedly. And so when they showed, in fact, it was because of a customer that we were able to make the glaze and the icing separate SKUs because they were asking for it separately. In addition to the, um, the spring on the spring roll. Oh.

Lee Kantor: Well, I mean, that’s common in business. You listen to your customers, right? Because you want to, you want to serve them. And then, um, so you started going to more and more festivals is that became part of your weekends was going to festivals.

Cynthia Washington: Well, we would only go usually during the summer and uh, and the fall is when we mainly went and um, you know, we go every year, especially to the Oslo fest and Oslo, Georgia. Mhm. Because they were our biggest fans and our most loyal fans. And so we make sure we go there. And so right now I’m, you know, I’m concentrating on building the brand. And we introduced me, uh, help with, with building that because we have one, um, retailer that’s interested in getting 50,000 per month and I need help with that, you know, because it cost for the manufacturer that I partnered with to, to produce them. I got to be able to pay them before they release it right now.

Lee Kantor: And this is a common challenge for a lot of brands that are emerging like yours. Like how do you kind of take that leap of faith from being the size you are to a size you aspire to be without raising capital? Like, what have you learned about that? Because I’m sure in your career, this was not what you were talking about or doing every day.

Cynthia Washington: Right? Well, um, we’ve had some interest from some investors, but the investors so far that we’ve, um, encountered really wants to, you know, control and, uh, you know, I’m not willing to give control to those over to anyone because I’m looking to build this as a legacy for my family, my children’s children. Right. And so, um, we’re working on crowdfunding, You know, we have a GoFundMe account that because I’m not media savvy, it hasn’t been doing well. And I just want to get the exposure that I need to be able to, you know, get the, uh, manufacturer to produce what we need and also to get the equipment and things that we need to move forward. Because, you know, one of the main things that I’m thinking about is like, they have the, um, the narrative that put about policemen and donuts, right? Well, it’s going to be policemen and scrolls when we get going. They’re not going to remember donuts. And I’ve had some policemen try them and they were like, wow, you know, and I have an idea for a commercial with policemen. So it’s just so many ways that I can go with this idea and I’m excited about it.

Lee Kantor: So is right now the main way that you’re exposing the brand to the public is through festivals and online?

Cynthia Washington: Yes. Right. Well, really not online through the festivals and word of mouth. Um, we have people that call and say, but can you do this and do that? And because they’re frozen, we don’t do the, um, cook them for the customer and send them to them. Um, they usually order a big amount and then they, they save them from their, for themselves or cook them.

Lee Kantor: Uh, but at the festival you’re, they’re eating them right there. Right. Or are they, are they buying them frozen there?

Cynthia Washington: We have some customers that do buy them frozen for later.

Lee Kantor: Right. So you have at a festival, you can taste it there or you can buy some frozen.

Cynthia Washington: Right. Exactly. And but we’ve all customers have always bought them in addition to buying them frozen. And when we have the last festival this past October, we didn’t have a manufacturer at the time, but now we do.

Lee Kantor: Oh, so you were making them all yourself, like in the weekend? You know, right. A day or so before.

Cynthia Washington: We would do it the night before because we wanted them to be fresh. Right? So we did them the night before. And to do 2000 rows is no joke. That is no.

Lee Kantor: Joke. That’s that’s real work.

Cynthia Washington: Yes. And so but now that we’ve encountered, you know, um, uh, manufacturing is going to be uphill all the way.

Lee Kantor: Right. So now, um, is your whole family involved in this or just you? Who’s, who’s I know you’re leading it, but who, who, who do you have? Who have you recruited to help?

Cynthia Washington: Well, my son is going to eventually take over, but he’s working. Of course, he has a wife and three kids, so he’s working and he’s, you know, dependent on me to get everything set up before he can leave the commitment of his job. Um, we we need to get contracts in for, in in order for that to happen. And like I said, I have a Loi from a company that wants 5000 per month, right? But we really need some contracts and we’ve been reaching out to the cruise lines, the casinos in Florida and Mississippi. And, um, we were reaching out to different franchises. We looking for corporate contracts preferably. And um, we’re looking for someone to put my name out there to chat to get into his big chicken menu. And, you know, so if you’re listening, Shaq, you don’t know, you know what the I even took some to the Henry County Sheriff Department, where he. He’s a part of.

Lee Kantor: Right.

Cynthia Washington: And I, I gave them and I said, make sure he gets gets one. And when the lady called me back, she said, Miss Cynthia, she said, I’m. I’m sorry to tell you they’re gone. And he didn’t get any. I’m like, oh, man. So I’ve still been reaching out trying to get get some to him, you know, because I know he’s going to love her. He’s going to love them.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. And there’s a lot of other franchises that are based here in Atlanta that might be interested in partnering with you.

Cynthia Washington: What? Give me that information because I’m I’m fervent about, you know, seeking out any kind of help that I can get.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, there’s a lot a lot of brands are based here. There’s a lot of, um, companies that are the the franchisor of a lot of the brands that you know of that might be a good fit to partner with. So yeah, hopefully if they’re listening, they’ll reach out to you, but it sounds like you got a winner here and you just got to get the word out.

Cynthia Washington: Yes, we had, we did an event for one summer for the, uh, Clayton County Police and fire Department. They were, um, at a kids camp and teaching the kids about safety. And they asked me to, you know, to come and share my spring rolls. And I did it for free. And when the people, when everybody came through the line, the firemen and the policemen, one guy, he said, now I don’t eat those. I don’t eat, um, sweet potatoes. And my daughter in law convinced him to at least try it. He came through the line three more times and we said, wait a minute, we’re not here to feed you. We’re just here for you to sample them, he said. Oh my God, these are so good. He said, can you cater my wedding? I’m getting married in two months. I said, we don’t do catering except for the spring rolls. We can’t, you know, we can’t cater your wedding. So we made we’ve made some believers out of some unbelievers.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. And that might be a whole other side for your business partner with wedding planners. So that you provide the the spring rolls.

Cynthia Washington: Right? That’s a good idea. Yeah.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. There’s, there’s so many opportunities for you with, uh, a dessert that’s so, uh, unique. Uh, it just seems like the sky’s the limit.

Cynthia Washington: Right? And, and we don’t use, um, because one manufacturer that I was going to go with, they wanted to do canned sweet potatoes. Oh, no, no, no, no. And they made some samples for me and my nine year old granddaughter. When it arrived, I, I made, I fried some for my nine year old granddaughter and she said, grandma, I don’t mean to hurt your feelings, she said, but these are not as good as the ones you’ve always made. Well, I recorded it, you know. So to get her reaction right, and I told them, no, we’re going to stay fresh and do everything right.

Lee Kantor: Don’t compromise on the quality and what makes it special. I mean, that’s right. That is not the way to go. I mean, make it the way you you make it. And that’s what people love.

Cynthia Washington: Right. So we use fresh potatoes, cut up potatoes. We peel them and everything. And that was part of why it was so stressful for us when we were doing it by hand, is that we had to peel the potatoes, slice the potatoes and, you know, get everything done by, you know, right from from start. Right. But it’s worth it. It’s really worth it.

Lee Kantor: So when you go to a festival right now, How many do you have to make? Um, to, you know, to kind of handle the, the demand at a given festival.

Cynthia Washington: Well, we usually hit our max mark at 2000, but we usually say about and it’s, it’s, it’s kind of frustrating, you know, but, and so we, we try not to make them ahead of time, even though they have a, a year shelf life, we try to make them as fresh as we can. Right. Go to the festivals.

Lee Kantor: Right. So the frozen ones, I would imagine they have a shelf life. But when you’re at a festival, you make some fresh right there. So how many of those do you have to make where it’s ready to put into a fryer right there.

Cynthia Washington: 2000 we do it the night before 2000.

Lee Kantor: So you sell 2000 in 1 festival?

Cynthia Washington: Yes. We sell out.

Lee Kantor: Wow.

Cynthia Washington: We sell out. Yeah, we sell out. And we have this year. Um, and, and they record, they did, uh, one recording of, of, uh, the people eating them, but we should have gotten the recording where this lady, he bought some and she said she had been, she’s been there the years before. She said I just had to make it here, she said. And then she came back about two hours later and she was like, oh, well, I was hoping you all were still here because we were shutting down. She said, I got to get some for my mom because I ate the ones that I bought for her and I and I’m coming back to get some for her now. And so it just made us feel really, really good that, you know, people are, are that into it? They really are. They, they, it’s such a loyalty in that city.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you when you do the festivals, do you put a sign up that say your GoFund me and help us grow. Do you have some way to get people that love it right there to give, uh, to invest in, in the growth.

Cynthia Washington: Oh, you know what? Thank you. I, we’ve never advertised the GoFundMe at the festival. I didn’t think about that.

Lee Kantor: But those are all people that love your work and that probably want to help support you.

Cynthia Washington: Oh my God. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for making me aware of something. And to the poverty.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Well, I mean, I would start there. Those are your super fans. They’re coming back for more. And if there’s a way for them to help you grow and be part of the journey, I’m sure a lot of them will sign up for you right there on the spot.

Cynthia Washington: Yes. Okay. Because you know, it’s on my website, but usually when people go on the website, they usually just go to the pictures and say, oh my God, it looks so good. They don’t really read the story.

Lee Kantor: Right.

Cynthia Washington: And, you know, I need to make that clear.

Lee Kantor: Right. Well, at the festivals you’re having conversations with the people. That’s a perfect time for them to understand the story and want to be. And some of them are going to want to be part of the story by helping you.

Cynthia Washington: Right? Because, you know, the first, I totally agree. The first year we went, a young man, he he’s the one who was going on about the glaze and the icing. He came the second year and he said his mother, him and his mother come. And, you know, even now they come every year. And his mother said, oh, I’m so glad we finally found where you are. I’m so sick of him. He just said, I can’t wait till I find that man. I. She said, we finally found you. And that same year that young man, he. He said, Miss Cynthia, he said, this is going to go far. He said, I want to. I want to bless you. Shoot. And he went to his truck and he came back with a check for $500. And I was like, oh my God. He said, because you’re going far. And now that I’m thinking about what you’re saying, I could have been advertising the GoFundMe at the festival. Right? And then he didn’t think about that. Thank you.

Lee Kantor: Well, I think that that’s where you should start is with the people who are tasting it and loving it right on the spot, because a certain percentage of them are going to want to be part of the story and be part of the journey with you.

Cynthia Washington: Right. Well, we won’t, um, I’m going to I have some of my phone number and I’m going to ask them to spread the word.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, that’s where I would start is with the people who are your superfans and build from there. And, and it might require you to go to more festivals, uh, to get in front of more people. But that’s, I think how you build something is from the ground up and you’re doing, you did the hard work of coming up with a great idea. So now you got to just get in front of more people.

Cynthia Washington: Right? Yes. And but for those that are listening, that may want to, you know, can I give them the right.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Please give us your Facebook and your website and anywhere else maybe where you’re going to be in the coming months. Um, just share whatever you’d like because we’re here to help.

Cynthia Washington: Okay. Well, it’s freaux STROLLSLLC. And I think if you like, with the link in LinkedIn or Facebook or anything, you just type in that name, you should get us to come up. Um, I don’t know if there’s other scrolls on right sprout though.

Lee Kantor: The website I have in your, in the document in our prep document is Sprolls desserts.com. Sprolls desserts on Facebook, SPROLLS. Desserts T s. If you look for that, you should be able to find you. I would think pretty easily.

Cynthia Washington: Right? And if you go on GoFundMe period, you just type in this profile LLC. Yep. And it’ll come up. Mhm.

Lee Kantor: Well, Cynthia, thank you so much for sharing your story. You’re doing such important work and you’re a true inspiration. And thank you again. We appreciate you and, and we’re rooting for you.

Cynthia Washington: Thank you. I thank you for the opportunity to share my story. And I thank you for your encouragement. I really do. And hopefully we’ll we’ll speak again. And when we talk, especially.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, when you get that big retailer, come back on and tell us about it.

Cynthia Washington: Yes, I will. I sure will. Thank you so much.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.

Leadership in the Fog: Why Speed Kills and Slow, Deliberate Action Wins

by

High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Leadership in the Fog: Why Speed Kills and Slow, Deliberate Action Wins
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee interviews Pete Behrens, CEO of Agile Leadership Journey, about navigating leadership uncertainty. Pete introduces the concept of “the fog” — an ambiguous space between stability and crisis that has become the new normal for leaders. He advises slowing down rather than speeding up in uncertain times, taking small iterative actions to create clarity, and building self-awareness to recognize blind spots. Pete also discusses fostering adaptive organizational cultures and shares insights from his book Into the Fog, emphasizing that effective leadership requires vulnerability, collaboration, and embracing uncertainty as a landscape to navigate rather than a problem to fix.

Pete Behrens is a speaker, author, and coach who helps leaders navigate uncertainty when the path forward isn’t clear. An engineer by training, he spent the first half of his career solving technical problems before discovering that the most complex challenges aren’t technical at all—they’re human.

He is the CEO of Agile Leadership Journey, where he works with leaders and organizations facing uncertainty, change, and growth. His work is grounded in a simple belief: leadership isn’t about having the right answers, but about the curiosity to ask better questions, the courage to make difficult choices, and the willingness to move forward without certainty.

He is the author of Into the Fog: Leadership Stories from the Edge of Uncertainty, a collection of honest, story-driven reflections on what leadership looks like when clarity is elusive. He also speaks internationally and hosts the Relearning Leadership podcast, blending practical insights, vulnerability, and real-world experience.

Connect with Pete on LinkedIn, Facebook and X.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Leadership in uncertain and changing environments, referred to as “the fog.”
  • The distinction between clear skies, stormy weather, and fog in leadership contexts.
  • The increasing prevalence of uncertainty in today’s business landscape.
  • The importance of slowing down to gain clarity and make informed decisions.
  • The concept of iterative actions and small experiments in navigating challenges.
  • The role of self-awareness, vulnerability, and collaborative leadership in effective management.
  • The significance of culture in organizations and how it reflects leadership behaviors.
  • Strategies for leaders to develop awareness and address blind spots.
  • The need for a catalyst leadership mindset that promotes adaptability at all levels.
  • The application of leadership coaching across various industries and organizational sizes.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have CEO and Founder of Agile Leadership Journey, Pete Behrens. Welcome.

Pete Behrens: Thank you Lee, glad to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about your practice. How are you serving folks?

Pete Behrens: Yeah, we often see leaders operate effectively in two terrains, what I call clear skies and stormy weather. Uh, clear sky represents, you know, the stability, the set a plan, execute, optimize. Stormy weather is obviously the conflict and crises that ultimately emerge through that journey. The problem is most leadership lives somewhere in between, in another place where that path isn’t so clear going forward. And perhaps there’s a few fires, but no immediate ones. I call that the fog, and it’s what we see derail even some of the most experienced leaders. We’re just not trained for that. And so that’s our focus, helping leaders work through that uncertainty and change.

Lee Kantor: So in a typical day, week, month or year in an organization, what percentage of the time are they in clear skies versus stormy weather versus the fog?

Pete Behrens: That’s what’s changing so fast as you’re experiencing, whether it’s through geopolitical disruptions, whether it’s technology and AI, the concept of clear skies is almost, you know, negligent in today’s most of today’s business environment. And so what we see is this fog, this environment is becoming the landscape of leadership.

Lee Kantor: So that’s a typical leader’s day is in some sort of fog, not having enough information, not knowing kind of the landscape of what’s in front of them, clearly, because you can’t, I guess, trust the map from yesterday because today’s changing so rapidly.

Pete Behrens: Exactly. And certainly there are crises. And part of the problem is treating everything as a crises. In fact, even treating the fog or uncertainty as a defect, when we start to think about uncertainty as something to fix, we’re in the wrong mindset. It’s something we have to navigate, and that changes the orientation and the role of leadership when you start to do that shift.

Lee Kantor: One of my favorite books is called The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday. And he talks about that, is that these obstacles aren’t there to sabotage you or to derail you. They’re just part of the landscape. Is that kind of your thinking that nowadays the fog isn’t. It’s nothing personal. It’s just that’s the environment we’re living in right now.

Pete Behrens: Well, it is personal and professional, yes, but it is the landscape. It is what we need. In fact, what I think that book is referring to is also that’s what makes us better leaders. We call them heat moments. Moments that go beyond our capability to solve but push us to the capability we need to get past them.

Lee Kantor: So what are some advice you can give when you’re navigating the fog? Is it do you attack that? I’m sure you do differently than you would clear skies or even a stormy weather?

Pete Behrens: Yeah. Think of the default in clear skies. In stormy weather. We often want to operate in speed, whether it’s we’re optimizing something because it’s predictable and repeatable processes. That’s great. Or in a storm, we need to make clear, decisive action in crises. And whether that’s a pandemic crises, whether that’s a tariff crisis, whether that’s a competitor, crises, those things require fast, immediate action. When you think about fog, it’s counterintuitive, but you recognize it when you’re driving in a car. What’s the what’s the thing we do best is slow down, not stop, right? That’s not going to achieve our goals and it’s not going faster, which is the natural instinct. So this, this concept of slowing down to create clarity because that’s what’s most scarce in uncertainty and change is clarity. That’s the thing we need the most. The only way we create that is by slowing down, observing more, creating more sense sensory input to then pivot in a better direction, potentially going faster takes us simply faster to what’s likely the wrong destination.

Lee Kantor: But if you’re in this kind of fog like state and you are pausing, not stopping, not speeding up, how do you kind of get your bearings? How do you know which, where’s, where’s true north? Have I deviated from that? How do I know what’s real and what’s imaginary? How do I know what’s a trend or what’s a fad.

Pete Behrens: We don’t. That’s the challenge. We are making guesses. If you think about the definition of leadership, it takes us places we’ve never been before. Management is about dealing with things we have and resources and taking projects forward. Leadership takes us fundamentally into an unknown future, so there is no right and there is no waiting for that clarity to occur again. The counterintuitive move here is movement creates clarity. This is the mode of take a Seal team and military. Smooth is fast. Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. So when I start to think about how do I create both movement and clarity? That starts with movement. That’s what creates the feedback loop. That’s what creates the sensing. That gives us more data to make better choices. But it’s an iterative process, not a Plan, define, execute process.

Lee Kantor: That reminds me of a story somebody told me about. Like, if you’re in a landslide and you’re buried under snow, you like spit so you can see where north is. You can see where top and up and down are because you’re totally disoriented. How do you kind of go about that in an incremental way when you’re in a business and it isn’t clear what the next move is?

Pete Behrens: Yeah. And in my book Into the Fog, one of the stories I share is a story called Small Sandcastles. I was part of a program that, for two and a half years, tried to define a new system and failed miserably. We got nowhere, but spent a ton of money. And we see this over and over, especially in high tech orientated areas where change is happening so quickly. Every time we felt like we were getting close, the tide came in and just washed away our foundation. You know our sandcastle. Our virtual sandcastle. What we learned over time. What really drove me to understand this, this new approach in the fog is, is really about smaller sandcastles. Having this huge grand vision is great, but progress towards that grand vision isn’t designing the entire base of this grand grand castle. It’s, well, let’s build one over here. Let’s see how that goes. Let’s get some feedback from that. So that spit example you just shared is a perfect example of a very small sandcastle. One small experiment that we can learn from that allows us to make the next best decision. Which way I need to dig to get out of this avalanche.

Lee Kantor: So then are you saying then the first move really isn’t that important? But I guess you want to be directionally correct. But any move is a good move as long as you learn and can iterate off of that move.

Pete Behrens: Yeah. Think about you want to go to the store so you have a goal in mind. And most leaders recognize the importance of vision. So you take vision away. You take the goal away. Now direction is meaningless. It doesn’t matter. And this is part of the problem leaders run into. If I don’t have a clear direction of where I want to go, pivoting makes no difference. Any choice, any direction won’t matter because it doesn’t mean something. Once I have a vision, once I have a goal. Now, since I’m operating in the fog, let’s say I’m doing that without the GPS and I’m taking a few steps in this direction. Now I can start to get that feedback. Oh, is this taking me towards that store or away from that store? That combination. Having that vision with the ability to pivot in action is that sweet spot where you have the data or receiving the data, but it’s meaningful towards some directional aspiration.

Lee Kantor: So what is your backstory? How did you get involved in leadership and how did you come up with the idea of the fog?

Pete Behrens: Interestingly, my background is engineering. I was trained to solve technical problems. Things like parking lots, elevator banks. I spent much of my career on technical systems like databases and and applications. What I realized, however, as I started to move into the organizations more deeply, most of the interesting and problematic problems weren’t technical. They’re human fear avoidance, differences of opinion, just competing priorities. These aren’t problems you can solve or optimize. And this is what put me on a different path that we’re not necessarily dealing with a problem with a solution. We’re dealing with a tension that needs to be managed. And how do we do that? I look at a lot of what I do today is actually engineering of a different focus. If you think about some of the most complex systems in the world, they’re organizational adaptive human systems. So leaders, their job is to optimize that organizational system to get the most out with the least input. In that world. And so that’s a lot of the way I look at organizations and growth, and that’s the way we look at leadership in terms of their role.

Lee Kantor: And who is the ideal client for your leadership? Uh, coaching and leadership style. If they want to implement it.

Pete Behrens: Yeah. Any leader operating in a space with a lot of uncertainty and change. So if you, if you’re looking at things like, uh, manufacturing or construction, these are fairly predictable industries without massive disruptions, unless you’re thinking supply chain, now you’re starting to get into a disruption oriented business. Certainly anything that has a tech fintech and sure tech, uh, you know, just tech in general, those are certainly going to be organizations we work quite closely with, but we’re seeing this in pretty much every spectrum. Ai and technology is starting to change the landscape for pretty much all industries today, which is driving change where it hasn’t been in the past.

Lee Kantor: And then how do you deliver kind of your coaching? Is it primarily through one on one coaching or do you do seminars for organizations? Do you do online coaching? Like what is the, how do you deliver?

Pete Behrens: Yeah, we offer all of those things. So we tend to start with education. We often leaders are blinded more by unawareness. We talk about this as most bad leadership isn’t purposely evil or maniacal. It’s just simply ignorant, unaware. And when we think about the fog, we often think fog is external. And that’s true. Markets change, competitors change. You know, tariffs form things like that. The most dangerous fog we haven’t talked about yet though happens between our ears. It’s the ego the assumptions, the biases, the blind spots we have as leaders, that lack of self-awareness that impacts all of us. So what we’re doing is essentially helping leaders to start to unpack that, put up the mirror, understand how their own behavior, their lived reality is impacting their organization. One of the terms we use is organizations mirror their leaders. So if you’re seeing something problematic in the organization, it’s likely stemming from the leader. So that comes through education, through coaching, through workshops and through, you know, one on one and team based.

Lee Kantor: Well, if your main, uh, buyer or your is the leader that is lacks self-awareness, how do they know they have a problem? What are some of the signals or signs that a leader, even if they do lack self-awareness, can say, I better address this because this is not good. Things are not as they should be.

Pete Behrens: That is the number $1 million question. And one of the biggest impediments to any growth is the leaders lack of awareness. Or even if they’re aware, the comfort or the discomfort that that creates to go there. It’s it’s not easy to look at yourself. It’s easier to try to solve an external problem than it is to look in that mirror. This is where we could lead horses to water, but we can’t get them to drink. And we’re not going to change leaders who aren’t going to confront their own role in what’s going on. The organization. What I would say to the leader out there listening is notice what’s happening in your organization. If you feel a discomfort, if you feel a tension, if you feel something that feels out of sync, that’s the signal. It’s usually something felt versus something seen.

Lee Kantor: So it isn’t something that shows up on a dashboard. It’s not, um, you know, maybe it’s hard to hire certain people or have a lot of turnover. Like it’s not organizationally evident. It’s something that you’re just feeling in your gut.

Pete Behrens: Well, this is where we might differ from a traditional consulting firm. A traditional consulting firm might come in and say, is our strategy correct? Is our direction correct? Are we hitting the market in a particular direction? That’s not what we work with. We work with the execution of that. Are we actually operating on all cylinders? It’d be like going and taking your car in for a tune up. Are we working effectively? Sometimes. You know, you think about your car. Do you know it’s operating at its peak performance? Do you know the oil’s running low? Well, yeah, we could have some dashboards for that. And sometimes they’ll get information like a culture survey or an employee engagement survey. So you can find things through those. Often those are delayed indicators though. These are things that you can see. But by that point it’s too late. The feeling tends to come before the data.

Lee Kantor: So how do you help a person who you described as not being self-aware, be self-aware enough to sense a problem?

Pete Behrens: Yeah. You know, we talk about leadership as not a solo activity, not a solo sport. That’s more of an adventure you might take to the mountains on your own. Leadership is a team sport. So when I start to think about this, I want leaders to recognize they don’t have to do this alone. This is not something that they have to navigate alone. This is not something they have to carry a burden alone. One of the biggest challenges we find leaders is they feel like, number one, either they have to have the answers, they don’t, or number two, they have to have the solution or the direction they don’t. What they need to be able to do is project a better future. But also the vulnerability to say, I can’t do this alone. I can’t get there alone. That’s where the best leadership lives. So my, my request or my ask of maybe this leader who’s in that space is the vulnerability to reach out and say, I see something, but I need some help in getting there and reaching out, whether it’s to someone like us, whether it’s to someone they’re comfortable with a peer or even somebody in their organization.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share about maybe somebody you work with that was going through, um, the fog and you were able to help them get through it? Don’t name the name of the person or the organization, but maybe share the challenge they were going through and how you were able to impact them.

Pete Behrens: Sure. Yeah. We have dozens and dozens of stories. And in fact, my book Into the Fog is a storybook. Every chapter represents or shares a real story by a real leader in just that way. Let’s see, what do I want to choose? Let’s take a story of a high tech firm that was essentially operating in the fog and going incredibly fast and essentially or almost broke that organization. They had this moment where nothing was working. They, they they’re in this mode of what we call a scale up. They’re going from startup. They had proven themselves, they had hit the market, and now they’re in scale up mode, which means fast growth and in fast growth. What we see is what worked when we’re small doesn’t work when we’re large. And the problem is when you wait till you’re large to fix it, then the problem just becomes bigger. What was really fascinating about this particular story is, is I was brought in when this crash was occurring. So that was interesting. Point number one, that they were open and revealing enough to realize we have a problem and we need some help. That’s great. What was interesting about this though, is not I provided some magic, I didn’t. I simply provided some of the mirror and what’s going on in the organization. And in this case, the pause and the pivot was truly impactful for them. What was interesting about that, though, is they paused and pivoted and they crashed again. And this is often the case. This is not a one time mode. This is more of think about this as like your operating system, not a one time event. The inspect and adapt can’t happen a single time. It has to happen over and over. So with this particular leader, it’s learning the muscle or it’s building that muscle to be able to do this over and over again, that drives the success over time. But yes, the, the concept of awareness change with data, inspect and adapt from that point is a common pattern that we find to be effective for all leadership in the fog.

Lee Kantor: And then once they kind of the aha moment happens, the light bulb turns on. It is something that makes that second time easier.

Pete Behrens: Yes it does once you start to see the patterns. In this case, one of the patterns that showed up that was a little harder for this leader to deal with is once they got their own pattern. How do I scale that pattern to others? Because now everybody else, all the other leaders below them in the organization are wearing their capes, making their choices, moving their speed. So now how do we scale that? And this is the problem that we see in organizations because everything’s moving so fast, we don’t have time to operate from the top of the organization. We don’t have time to trickle down strategy and direction. It’s got to be more of an organic system. That means this mindset of inspect and adapt. We call it a catalyst leadership mindset, where change becomes the operating rhythm that has to be embedded throughout the organization at every layer. In fact, one of the terms we use is leadership is not a title or position. It’s a choice. It’s a behavior that happens at every place inside the organization, regardless of title or position. So that became the next challenge, particularly for this organization.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you talk about change and you mentioned that speed can, uh, isn’t maybe not the most optimal first move, but it sounds like action is the optimal first move.

Pete Behrens: Say that part again.

Lee Kantor: You mentioned speed may not be the optimal first move, but you talk about the importance of changing during uncertainty. So it sounds like I’m hearing when you say change, I’m hearing action that it’s not kind of a mental like, I guess mentally you have to, uh, understand what’s happening, but at some point you have to take an action.

Pete Behrens: Yes. Think about this as the first step for leadership doesn’t need to be competence or certainty. We often see leaders wait for clarity. They wait for data. They wait for proof before action. I want to reverse that. I want to do the action that creates the clarity. That takes a different set, that takes a courage of leadership to be able to take that step without all the data, without all the information. But it’s it can be a small step. It can be a safe step. It can be experiments. It can be trials. We see this a lot where we know we’re in uncertain territory, whether you’re dealing with healthcare or pharmacy, pharmaceuticals. They do millions and millions of different trials and experiments to find what’s right. That mindset, that curiosity, scientific mindset, although works incredibly well in all industries that are dealing with the fog.

Lee Kantor: Now, how do you help the organizations? Because it sounds like this is at the heart of it. It’s a culture shift as well because it has to permeate the entire organization. It can’t just live with one person in one room, somewhere in the office. It’s got to really permeate everybody. If you really want to be able to deal with this over any period of time. How do you help them change the culture where there might have been? Everybody says, oh yeah, feel fast. You know, like it’s okay to take. Experiment, experiment, try whatever you want to call it. Take chances. But a lot of times you’re penalized when you’re wrong. And it’s hard to kind of marry both of those concepts of take chances and never be wrong.

Pete Behrens: What you’re describing is one of the most overused words in what’s become a platitude culture. And I think a lot of leaders roll their eyes when they hear culture. But you’re correct. What we help with is cultural. And if you think about what is culture, it’s simply a reflection of behavior of its leaders, what they see as priorities, what they see as important that turns into culture. There’s two ways to really shape culture, and we help leaders with both of these. One you start to think about is these macro levers, and this is where a leader might bring in a big consulting firm and do what I’d call open heart surgery, massive reorganization. You’re going to change culture when you start to really, you know, rip open an organization. And that often is short term focused, not necessarily long term health oriented. Another way to shape this is through micro culture. We simply start changing the behavior of leaders. Now one leader’s not going to change a culture. But if I get 30 leaders in a room and then they start over the next six months to start changing conversations, changing decisions, changing meetings, changing interactions with others, that shapes culture. The macro culture. So yes, culture is incredibly important. We help leaders visualize this. We actually have a picture of their culture that we get, and we get some data so they can see it because data tells the story better than anything else. And then once we have that data, help them understand the correlation between their behaviors and that culture that they’re trying to achieve.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Pete Behrens: What we’re looking for are leaders curious enough to want to do something different. The biggest problem we see in today’s world is copy paste organizations. We saw this ineffective throughout the history in the 20th century, and we’re still seeing it today. People want to take an organization and copy it, whether it’s Google, whether it’s Microsoft, whether it’s Spotify, whether it’s, you know, take your pick. That doesn’t work. What works is understanding the levers that make those company, the policies, the metrics, the structures, the behaviors of leaders that make that effective. And putting that building your own recipe, the way I describe this is organizations want to be that five star restaurant, that five star chef, but they want to use other people’s recipes to do it. No five star chef uses other people’s recipes. They make their own. The best organizations in the world today are making their own recipes that divide their own culture, that shape this future. So what we’re looking for, we’re looking for those leaders who want to make a difference, who don’t just want to copy what’s worked from somebody else but wants to make their own dent in the universe.

Lee Kantor: Now, does this work best for those established organizations, or does it also have a place at a startup?

Pete Behrens: It works at any scale. It’s actually quite easy to affect startups because they’re pretty small systems and you can shape it through a single individual. The larger systems, what we tend to do is we tend to work in pockets. So we’ve worked with organizations upwards of 100, 200,000 people and those we work at various layers within the organization. Maybe it’s a product team, maybe it’s a plant that we’re working with. Maybe it’s a division or a function that we work with. And so we start to scale through these. So every one of those we call a bubble or a pocket inside that organization that we would work with that can be independent in the way it operates.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, get Ahold of the book Into the Fog Leadership Stories from the Edge of Uncertainty, or get Ahold of you or your team when it comes to coaching or speaking. What is the website? What is the best way to connect?

Pete Behrens: Yeah, the best way to connect all of those things, including myself, would be into the fog Book.com that is a landing page on our website. So you can go from there to get more information. Look at our resource library, understand me a little bit better and what we do.

Lee Kantor: Well, Pete, thank you so much for sharing your story today, doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Pete Behrens: Thank you Lee.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

From Structure to Freedom: Coaching Through Life After Work

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
From Structure to Freedom: Coaching Through Life After Work
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, host Lee Kantor interviews Millree Williams, owner of Willekop Coaching. Millree shares his journey from communications leader to coach, specializing in career transitions and retirement life coaching. He helps mid-to-late career professionals navigate identity shifts, reframe retirement as an exciting new chapter, and create fulfilling second acts on their own terms. Millree discusses working with organizations on employee retirement transitions, shares a client success story, and highlights his Retirement Roadmap framework.

Millree Williams has had several careers throughout his life—including roles as a tech editor, PR executive, communications leader, communications consultant, and professional coach. He has learned that everyone has the capacity to overcome challenges, struggle, and ultimately thrive in their careers.

Beyond coaching, he brings curiosity, an eagerness to learn, and the confidence that people can get through anything—qualities he shares with each client.

Connect with Millree on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Career transitions for mid to late career professionals
  • Retirement life coaching and its significance
  • Mindset shifts regarding retirement and identity management
  • Creating fulfilling second acts after leaving a career
  • The role of organizations in supporting retirement transitions
  • Coaching approaches and client experiences in navigating retirement
  • Importance of planning retirement on one’s own terms
  • Addressing age bias and the value of experience in the job market
  • The shift from traditional retirement activities to meaningful engagements
  • The impact of coaching on personal fulfillment and life structure post-retirement

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have the owner of Willekop Coaching, Millree Williams. Welcome.

Millree Williams: Hi, how are you? Thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about your practice, how you serving folks?

Millree Williams: Yeah, I really do two different kinds of things. One is I really work a lot with career transition professionals, especially those who are in mid to late career, particularly late career. And I focus a lot of attention on helping people who are thinking about preparing for or in retirement, not the financial side, but the side that talks about, you know, what are you actually going to do now that you’ve put this money away?

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? Have you always been involved in coaching?

Millree Williams: No, I actually came to coaching about 8 or 9 years ago. I had been a communications leader in universities and in non-profits. And at one, at one point in my life, I got a coach who was helping me sort of navigate, you know, my way forward. And, you know, we did some really good work together. I was really happy about it. And then she came back a few years later and said, hey, you know, you really should be a coach. And of course, I was. I thought that was the worst possible thing I could be because I was a communications person. And she literally convinced me over about 3 or 4 months of calling me from New Zealand almost every week to convince me to do it. And ultimately, the point that she made that was kind of the pivotal place for me was, look, Mary, whether you become a coach or not, and I think that you will become a coach, but whatever you do, you’re going to learn some new skills that you’ll be able to use in your communications practice. You know, all these other kinds of areas. And so that convinced me to go out and, um, train to be a coach. And, um, you know, I just haven’t looked back.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you made the transition to becoming a coach, did you think initially. Well, I’ll be a coach in and around what I’ve been doing communications. Was that kind of your first move? And then you obviously pivoted.

Millree Williams: Yeah, that’s really interesting. Yes. That’s exactly what I thought was going to happen because I was a communications and marketing person and I thought, hey, I’m just going to coach, you know, marketing and communications people who are making transitions and, you know, the pandemic started shutting down opportunities that I ordinarily would find, you know, like going to conferences and things like that. And I had this conversation with my mentor coach, the one who convinced me to become a coach, and she said, look, your tribe, your niche will find you. You just continue doing good work. And that’s what I did. And I started working with people who were mid to late career. And ultimately it got me into this whole other demographic where I didn’t even think there was such a thing as a retirement life coach. But I started seeing more and more in my practice in the late, you know, career transitions area that people were really approaching retirement and thinking about, you know, who am I going to be in this next chapter of my life? And so many of them were thinking and, you know, concerned and cautious because they were thinking, you know, I just don’t know who I’m going to be. I’ve been putting money aside, but honest to goodness. I feel like this is kind of an end stage rather than a beginning. And of course, I’ve gone through many, you know, professional transitions in my life and I thought, this is an area where I can actually help people, uh, and just show them that there is a different way to think about it as well as, you know, just knowing that all the things that are really important to them, they already have inside of them. So yeah.

Lee Kantor: Now when you’re working with a client, are you kind of having that same conversation your coach had with you in terms of maybe you don’t have to figure it out? Exactly, but let’s just get directionally correct here and then just play in that world to see what kind of resonates.

Millree Williams: Uh, yeah, uh, that’s part of it. Uh, the larger part though is just helping them think, hey, and just know within themselves that I’m actually going to create this next exciting, sort of fulfilling chapter of my life, whether that’s a career transition or whether it’s planning for and entering into retirement. So, um, that’s really a baseline in most of the conversations that I have on both sides of the equation, career transition and, um, and retirement life coaching.

Lee Kantor: So the person has to kind of get the why, right?

Millree Williams: Yeah. And it’s just kind of a mindset shift, you know, rather than thinking, you know, I’m really feeling some trepidation about this next chapter, um, and whether or not, you know, how am I going to be approaching it and just create a level of excitement about you can now be whomever you want to be at this stage of your life. And, uh, is just really a very exciting time that you can actually create on your own terms. It’s not that you’re, you know, shifting Jobs, or you’re trying to fit into someone else’s thinking about who you might be or what they might need, and just thinking, what are the terms that I want to create and starting to live that out and just actually planning for it.

Lee Kantor: So instead of kind of taking a woe is me now, look, I didn’t want to do this, but now it’s thrust upon me. You try to reframe it to give them more agency and control over the possibilities.

Millree Williams: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: Now, do you find folks that are in the mid to late career, um, having a difficult time finding those opportunities maybe that were in a similar, maybe, um, amount of money they were making or even a similar amount of responsibility. Is it, is it difficult for, uh, mid to late career folks to kind of jump to a new opportunity or do they have to rethink everything?

Millree Williams: Well, you know those folks who are those professionals who are, um, in their late career, uh, transition. So many of them are thinking, oh my goodness, I’ve got to compete with a younger person or, uh, they’re thinking, oh, how do I get around this issue around age? And rather than thinking, uh, instead, what do I actually bring to the table? I’m a consistent, uh, employee. Maybe they’re going to be some areas that I’m going to have to that I’m going to have to upskill in. But an employer who gets me is going to get someone who is committed because they actually know who I am. They know you know what I stand for. I have a track record of of experience and excellence, and I’m going to bring a certain level of maturity to this role rather than thinking, how do I sort of game plan around the age issue? There are so many things that a person who is in late career transition, for example. Brings to the table and you know, they, you know, we’re taught in this society that youth is king. And it’s not always king or queen. It’s, uh, what is the value and what is your, what is the value you bring to an organization? And what is your value proposition in life in general, and what you actually bring to this new enterprise? And just leaning into that.

Lee Kantor: Now, do they have to kind of manage their expectations in terms of, well, maybe I won’t be able to get a full time job with all the benefits and perks that I had, but maybe I should transition into more of a consulting project based kind of second or third act.

Millree Williams: Well, you know, it just kind of depends on the terms they want to create for themselves. Um, if consulting is an area they want to go into and I made that transition myself. Um. Um, you know, earlier in my career, but if they want to, um, be embedded in an organization where they are, they get the benefits, they have a steady income rather than the cycles that go into consulting, uh, and contract work. They can just sort of create that on their own terms. Now, there may be some things that they’ll have to do. They may have to, you know, bone up on their tech skills. They may have to learn how to use the communications, uh, platforms that are in an organization. And, you know, there are some realities, you know, as we get older, you know, we learn a little bit more slowly, but the value that we ultimately bring to the enterprise is the bigger thing.

Lee Kantor: Now let’s switch gears into the retirement folks, because I find that to be an interesting, um, like you, I didn’t realize there was a market for folks that help somebody transition from working to retirement. When you discovered that, um, what were some of those conversations you were having where you were able to say, you know what, I can be a bridge and help people make a successful transition. What were some of the, the fears or trepidations that the, um, retiree or, or almost retiree was having? Right? Yeah. Like how, what were those early conversations where you were like, okay, now I can see, I see where the challenge is and where I can be a bridge.

Millree Williams: Yeah. One of like, one of the first things I was hearing pretty consistently is the whole idea around identity. You know, who am I now? Who am I as I’m going into this next phase of life? And when they hadn’t answered that question. That’s where the trepidation and the caution and the anxiety started. Because, you know, quite frankly, most people were building their own financial base. And the the opportunity then became, you know, where who am I going to be? You know, what am I going to be able to do with the lack of structure when, you know, and you get an opportunity to create those things on your own? Our people. Are my family members going to be considering me a retiree, which I’d love to get rid of that word, but are they going to be considering me as a retiree? And my, my, um, time blocks are totally open to anybody that I want, you know, who wants to pop into my life? So creating structure, identifying, you know, who they want to be, leveraging whatever their assets have been in the past, you know, whether areas of expertise, passion projects, Volunteerism. Consulting. Contracting. You know, whatever those things are. Creating it on their own terms. That’s really where, um, I started seeing and started helping people create on their own terms who they wanted to be. And I think once I started really working with, um, people who were approaching retirement and they started doing that mental pivot, they really got more, much more excited. I mean, if they wanted to go back to work and do something part time or be a consultant, you know, and building on an area of expertise, that’s great. But if they wanted to just kick back and travel for a while, that’s the terms. Those are the terms that they’re creating on their own. And I think, um, when people, when my clients started seeing, hey, I now have the latitude to do the things that I want to do, that’s when it really started kicking in for them. And, uh, that’s the thing that World Cup coaching helps people navigate.

Lee Kantor: And so they get kind of that aha moment where it’s like, oh, I control every aspect of this. These are every choice I make are my choices. I don’t have to really do anything. I get to do lots of things.

Millree Williams: Exactly. And I get to do them on my own terms. It’s a process. I mean, it’s a it’s not that. It’s not one conversation that you might have with someone or that I might have with a client. It’s helping them think about what is the difference, uh, what, what’s going to be the impact of your family on your retirement? You know, have you checked in with them? Have you checked in with your partner? Uh, what are the things that really are important to you? Uh, maybe it’s, um, creating a legacy or maybe it’s mentoring. Maybe you’ve got additional skills that you want to bring to another organization as a consultant, you know, where you help an organization problem solve. Uh, maybe you just want to work just enough to do the kind of travel at the level that you really are. The level where you want to be. You know, whatever those things are, helping my clients identify what those important, uh, levels are with those important, uh, steps are. And then helping them create a plan to do that really is very empowering to them.

Lee Kantor: Do, do people believe nowadays? I think, um, when we were younger, maybe you pictured, oh, when I retire, I’ll be fishing all day or playing golf or doing some leisure activity, you know, forever. And it’s like eating cake, like eating cakes. Nice. Once in a while, but I don’t know if I want to eat cake at every meal. Uh.

Millree Williams: Right.

Lee Kantor: But so is that kind of a mindset shift that people still have nowadays, or are they, or are we kind of beyond that, where people realize that, hey, life is long and I got to fill 24 hours every day, so I better have stuff to do or else I’m going to go crazy.

Millree Williams: Well, it’s not so much. I better have stuff to do. It’s more I’m going to be alive. I expect to be alive in around for at least 20, 25 more years. You know, minimally and I think society has demonstrated that that’s generally the case. And um, how am I going to spend these this. You know, what chapter am I going to create and how is that going to look on my terms? And, um, you know, look, people go back to work. You know, people consult, uh, people do a lot of different things professionally. Uh, but they also find things that they really want to do in their community. They want to spend more time with their, you know, children or grandchildren, whatever those things are. Li it’s, it’s, you’re setting an intention that this is the way I want to walk going forward as opposed to I’m being pulled into something. You know, I was I my, my company, you know, forced me into retirement. I wasn’t really ready for it psychologically and emotionally. And so now I’m kind of stuck. No, it’s like you have an opportunity now to just create the lifestyle that you want and it happens. Yeah, you would be.

Millree Williams: Well, you might not be shocked to know that it happens, you know, amongst high net worth, uh, people who are working with financial planners. It happens in succession planning in organizations, professional athletes who are, you know, have been cut from their teams. Now, you know, who are in their 30s, they’re young, they, uh, have money and resources and they, but now they just don’t have the identity that they’ve been used to having for 20 years, you know? Um, so we’re not 20 years, but maybe for, for professional athlete, maybe 10 or 15 years. So, you know, what is the, what are those areas that you’re actually lacking that you really want to now, you know, um, pivot and do some other things, you know, like, for example, a professional athlete who’s cut from a team has had a tax sheltered foundation that he or she has been working in. And they’ve been doing that for a while now. They get a chance maybe to lean into it a little bit more fully. Maybe they do some things with the NBA or the NFL where they can do, you know, partner. So the setting, the intention is really the thing.

Lee Kantor: Now, how do you help them just for that initial kind of shock of when that happens? Because at that point, I would imagine there’s a lot of fear bubbling up and a lot of, um, you know, going from some, like you said, structured, organized life to now an unstructured, um, chaotic, seemingly chaotic life going from very clear, um, path of what every day and week looks like to now a blank calendar. How do you help them through that period of being untethered? I would imagine for some people that’s very, maybe the scariest part, like waking up one the next day and not having anything to do. Like, do you try to get to them before that happens? Like, are you part of organizations kind of, um, you know, offboarding process? Um, or is this something that just like here they are, it’s the next day and it’s like, figure it out guy.

Millree Williams: Well, I, I work with clients all along the spectrum. Um, if they’re in an organization and the organization has brought me in to do a webinar or a workshop on succession planning or in a wellness program. I get employees to start thinking about that in advance. Uh, if, uh, a wealth management, uh, organization has brought me in to, um, work with some of their retiring, you know, wealth managers, for example, um, I get a chance to have those conversations in advance. Um, but, you know, I just want to step back just a second and just kind of say that, um, you know, people think that the fear is that they’re going to have this huge chunk of time and that they’re not going to be able to do anything with it, or they’re afraid that the lack of structure, um, for them is intimidating and has them sort of, to use your phrase, untethered. But the reality is that once people really start talking about what’s really important to them. And this is where I come in in many ways. In the very beginning, to just have them thinking about, you know, like what’s really important to you at this moment. And you would really be shocked at least to, to see the light go off. Uh, the light go on, uh, amongst, uh, clients and my clients in particular where they start thinking, okay, all right, so this is not something that I should be afraid of. Now, if I want to spend a certain number of hours a week with my grandkids or my, my children, that’s great. If I want to travel, let me start planning that. Uh, if I want to work part time, you know, or volunteer, let me start thinking about that. Where might these opportunities be? If I want to go back and consult or be a contractor, short term, you know, project focused contractor, where can I do that and where does that fit in my life? But the intention is I want to be in control of that, where maybe prior to that, you know, they had been pulled along organizationally.

Lee Kantor: Now our organization’s especially, I mean, every day you’re reading about layoffs nowadays. Um, are they on one hand, they’re comfortable laying off lots and lots of people. Are they at least mindful enough and have enough humanity to insert somebody like you into the process to make that kind of transition at least more humanized?

Millree Williams: I would love to have that happen. It’s starting to happen more and more. Uh, and I’m working with, you know, particularly corporate HR offices where they are really sort of focused on, um, you know, the fact that they have a retirement plan for their the employees, but, you know, employees who are entering the last couple years of their work, their work experience in the organization are starting to look outside rather than thinking about, you know, what is the great succession plan that I, as an HR leader, can create? How can I have this person thinking more about mentoring folks and, you know, while doing his or her work? How can I have them think about mentoring and creating a plan that, you know, sort of maintains the intellectual property of an organization rather than having it walk out of the door because a person, you know, has now retired and you’ve thought about it more as a financial issue rather than a succession issue.

Lee Kantor: And, and then they leave all that history behind and all that, um, that knowledge.

Millree Williams: And, and yeah, and HR offices really as they’re beginning to think more and more about this. They’re bringing people like me on to really be thinking about that and planning it because, you know, like retirement really isn’t a date. It’s actually a human transition. And how can an HR office in an organization help to manage that? And guess what? Uh, when organizations think about this in a different way, the brand of the organization is embellished in a way that they really never really were thinking about. Because if you have employees who you’re interviewing, uh, on the front end of their relationship with the organization, guess what? When they start thinking that, hey, I’m thinking about Mary as a human being, what sort of not just skills that I can help Mil recreate, but how can I help him to create the kind of program that’s going to make sense for him as a human being that really embellishes your brand as well.

Lee Kantor: And I would help. I would hope that would help in recruiting your next generation of talent, because they would see how you treat your people.

Millree Williams: Exactly, exactly.

Lee Kantor: So, um, is there a story you can share about maybe one of your clients that came to you with, uh, maybe they’re going through a transition, or maybe they were going into a second act of their career that you find rewarding. Were you able to help them get to a new level?

Millree Williams: Yes. Sure.

Lee Kantor: You don’t have to name their name, but maybe just share the challenge they were going through.

Millree Williams: Yeah, yeah. I, um, was recruited by a wealth management firm to help a retiring senior executive. So a wealth manager who was a senior executive for this organization. And they wanted to, they, they wanted to bring somebody like me in. And they, they interviewed several different people and they found me. They brought me in to help this person. Um, they wanted to give him an off ramp, and that was very kind of this organization of this wealth management team. So they wanted to give him an off ramp. So, you know, they gave him golf clubs and a whole bunch of different things, but they also offered him, uh, eight months of retirement life transition, retirement, life planning. And so they brought me on to do that. And honest to goodness, when I first started working with this guy, he was really sort of, uh, anxious about what’s next for him. And this kind of gets into the whole sort of, um, you know, identity issue, which we see, which I see so commonly amongst, uh, many of my clients, I started working, I started working with him and he would be on the golf course and someone would say, so what do you do? And honest to goodness, he was he hesitated because he had built a whole legacy of success bringing clients on, helping them manage their money and all of these different kinds of things.

Millree Williams: And he just hesitated on the golf course. He hesitated because he didn’t really have an identity for himself. He also didn’t have any structure. And one of the things that he and I tackled quite a bit was so often when he was working, he was building in the time of day where he was really in a very structured environment, and in the evenings he could do all the things with his wife and with his, you know, his son. Um, but then once he retired, he found himself doing so many of these different things during the day that he couldn’t figure out exactly what to do with that 6 to 8 p.m. time that ordinarily would be filled with his family, because now he was spending more time with them. So we spent a lot of time trying to figure out, you know, who am I now? So he can really seamlessly and with passion answer the question that he was seeing so often on the golf courses, as well as figuring out the kinds of things he could do in his own family. And of course, travel was one of those big, big deals that was really important for him and his wife spending more time, you know, helping his son, um, learn more about stocks and investing and those kinds of things, helping his son create a small business. All of those things became, um, they emerged as priorities for him that he really didn’t know when we started talking and when we started working together, uh, he found that he had this really passionate interest in Eagles, and he really started doing a bunch of research.

Millree Williams: He started actually working with his golf associates, with his golf club, with his, the, the, the golf course where he played the golf course. Thanks. Uh, the golf course to because he, they, he discovered that there were several eagles that were in that area. And so he would do lectures. So all of these things were things that he never was thinking about. Um, when he was, you know, exiting his organization and they just became very, very important to him. He was carving out time. He was creating, you know, plans to travel with his wife. He was helping his son, um, create a business. All these different things. And he started out believing that he was not going to have enough time. And then all of a sudden he, I mean, he, was trying to figure out what am I going to do with this time. And then he started, you know, as he walked through this whole process and started getting engaged in these other areas, he started realizing, hey, I just don’t have enough time in the day. So it was really a very interesting sort of transition for it.

Lee Kantor: Now, how do you deliver your coaching? Is it primarily a one on one or do you do group coaching or is there online courses?

Millree Williams: Oh yeah, I, yeah, I don’t do online courses. I do workshops for organizations. Um, I work individually with a portfolio of individual clients. I get referrals. Um, and I create this thing that I call the, um, retirement roadmap. And it’s a sort of a framework to help people think through what’s really important to them.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive Conversation with you. What’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Millree Williams: Yeah, they can reach me at Mary at corp.com or they can go to my website, which is william.com.

Lee Kantor: And that’s W I l l e k o p.com.com.

Millree Williams: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: Well thank you.

Millree Williams: The easiest way is to just reach out to me directly.

Lee Kantor: And then you’re also on LinkedIn, right?

Millree Williams: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: All right. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Millree Williams: I really feel like I’m this is an area where I can provide great value to people and I’m really passionate about it. So thank you.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Inside EVOLVE: Empowering MEP Contractors to Design, Fabricate, and Install Buildings Faster with Automation and Offsite Fabrication

by

Nashville Business Radio
Nashville Business Radio
Inside EVOLVE: Empowering MEP Contractors to Design, Fabricate, and Install Buildings Faster with Automation and Offsite Fabrication
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In this episode of Nashville Business Radio, Lee interviews Richard Burroughs IV, CEO and CTO of EVOLVE, a software company specializing in design and fabrication tools for mechanical, electrical, and plumbing (MEP) contractors. Richard shares his background in building construction and how he joined EVOLVE in 2020. He explains how EVOLVE helps contractors design buildings faster through offsite prefabrication, reducing construction timelines significantly. The conversation highlights the complexity of construction software adoption, the importance of customization, and how EVOLVE complements existing coordination tools. A standout example showcases how one client reduced a six-month installation to just 48 hours using EVOLVE’s solutions.

Richard Burroughs IV serves as CEO of EVOLVE, a construction technology company developing design and fabrication software that accelerates VDC and prefab performance. He is focused on modernizing how work gets done by driving the shift toward manufacturing and construction operating as one integrated system.

His background spans finance, operations, product development, analytics, and even fiddle playing—experiences that shape how he leads, partners with, and engages MEP professionals. He prioritizes meeting teams where they are and building solutions at the intersection of technology and the built environment.

At EVOLVE, he operates with a simple philosophy: listen closely, understand deeply, and innovate with purpose. He believes that when meaningful tools are built alongside the people who use them every day, results follow.

Connect with Richard on LinkedIn.

Episode Highlights

  • Overview of Evolve and its focus on design and fabrication software for MEP contractors.
  • Richard Burrows’ background in building construction and his journey to becoming CEO and CTO of Evolve.
  • The unique value proposition of Evolve in serving an underserved niche within the construction software market.
  • Challenges faced by MEP contractors in software adoption and the complexity of construction projects.
  • Importance of customization and coordination among multiple trades in the construction industry.
  • The shift from onsite assembly to offsite fabrication and its impact on construction timelines.
  • Evolve’s approach to educating clients and building trust through pilot projects and hands-on experiences.
  • Integration of Evolve’s software with existing coordination tools like Autodesk Revit.
  • Ideal client profile for Evolve and the types of companies they serve.
  • The need for raising awareness about career opportunities in the trades and the importance of MEP contractors in the economy.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Nashville, Tennessee. It’s time for Nashville Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Nashville Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have the CEO with EVOLVE, Richard Burroughs. Welcome.

Richard Burroughs IV: It’s great to meet you. Thank you for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about EVOLVE, how you serving folks?

Richard Burroughs IV: Absolutely. So we are a software company that sells design and fabrication software for mechanical, electrical and plumbing trade contractors. So we help them design buildings and fabricate and install the parts, the MEP systems of those buildings.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Richard Burroughs IV: That’s a great question. I’ll give you the short answer. So I grew up in the built environment, got a degree from Georgia Tech and building construction. Went to China for supply chain related to a big general contractor building apartments here in the United States. Went to business school and then fell in love with this small software business at the time. EVOLVE to join that company post business school in January or June of 2020, and grew in the ranks for the firm. And I’m now the CEO for the business.

Lee Kantor: So what was it about EVOLVE that got you so fired up that you decided to, you know, get involved to the level you did?

Richard Burroughs IV: Yeah, it’s a great question. While at University of Virginia in business school, I did a field case. So I wrote a research case working with this startup EVOLVE at the time to understand how they could grow the business, whether they wanted to pursue funding to grow the business, these types of questions. And part of the work was financial analysis and modeling. But a good part of the work was interviewing a lot of the key employees, many of whom are still at the business. So now our VP of product and he on our VP of engineering, Jason Faulkner, and hearing them describe how necessary these design automation software tools that they were building for these electrical and mechanical plumbing trade contractors in order for them to do their jobs and to design buildings faster and to be more constructible. You know, hearing their passion was really what led me to join the business.

Lee Kantor: And what about the EVOLVE solution did you find so intriguing and so important for the industry?

Richard Burroughs IV: Yeah, it’s a great question. So we’re what the world calls a vertical market software business. So said simply, we focused on a corner of the world that at the time, ten years ago, nobody else was really certain. So there’s a lot of very big companies like Autodesk who provide big platform softwares for the broader architecture and engineering and overall construction industry to leverage. But at the time especially, no one was serving these mechanical, electrical and plumbing contractors. And really, when you think about it, those trade contractors are carrying the vast majority actually delivering these buildings that we so rely on, things like data centers. The largest portion of the actual, if you get into what that building is comprised of, comes from the MEP contractors work. So they were underserved. They needed. There’s huge pressure to decrease the the construction timelines to execute these buildings. So they have to produce faster. Uh, somebody has to serve them the means to produce things faster, design faster, and to fabricate and install material faster. Uh, this company sits squarely in the middle of supporting that.

Lee Kantor: So if there was no EVOLVE, how were they doing it before you were around?

Richard Burroughs IV: Uh, so it’s a great question. There was such a need, uh, that we saw companies home building, home developing software about ten years ago. This was before AI. So frankly a much harder process than than perhaps now. But there was such a demand, such a need, that we saw contractors developing their own solutions to automate their designing of these MEP systems. Um, so in part, we actually acquired code from a contractor. We ended up rebuilding, redesigning that code base and launched what we now call EVOLVE electrical. About a year after that was May 2016. Uh, that’s a great signal of the demand. Again, it was an underserved space that needed to produce things faster and had to get the tools together to accomplish that.

Lee Kantor: And then did the same thing happen with mechanical?

Richard Burroughs IV: Uh, exactly. So we followed the electrical product about a year later. So this was May 2016, was inception of the business. Uh, about November 2017 was our fourth sale of, uh, of all, of all electrical, our launch of that product. And then about a year later was, uh, the fast follow with EVOLVE mechanical.

Lee Kantor: And so is that how you’ve been kind of growing It’s just kind of listening to your clients and then just building them a solution that, you know, will save them time and resources.

Richard Burroughs IV: Lea. That’s exactly right. You know, something that makes EVOLVE unique is our desire and willingness to hire from industry. So we have over 200 collective years of design experience from the MEP trades that constitute our product management team. They constitute our customer support team, among others. And so that allows us to really understand and live and breathe the voice of the customer, as the software world calls it. That allows us to create purpose built solutions that actually meet them where they are. Uh, so we are not here selling vision, you know, we’re selling practicality. You know, our customers think of them as, you know, the, the world’s, you know, best tradesmen and women, right? So they don’t want, you know, the, I’m going to go to Walmart and buy a given product off the shelf. I want to go to Ace Hardware. I want to engage with an expert that’s lived and breathed my craft, that can speak my language and understand my needs and help me on, you know, the mission that I’m trying to achieve. So they need service and tools. So we have to provide both great tools, purpose built and the service above and beyond that.

Lee Kantor: Um, the, this industry, do they tend to be risk averse or are they do, is it easy to find these early adopters that want to try a new thing?

Richard Burroughs IV: That’s a great question, Lee. You know, it’s oft quoted in, you know, the famous Andreessen Horowitz, uh, venture capital fund. They just came out with an article about how construction lags in digital adoption of software. And I see these things all the time and I defend our industry. You know, it’s a reflection not of their willingness to try digital tools and software. The lack of adoption is a reflection of the complexity of the project delivery itself. So the number of stakeholders, Architecture and engineering and site and civil and structural and MEP. The trade contractors, the general contractor. The owner. The local building. You know contact such as code in the city itself. There’s so many factors that go into how you deliver something like a data set. So bespoke, it’s that kind of marginal cost problem. It’s hard to get, you know, uniform software that applies to all of these different use cases and stakeholders. So that’s why the construction industry rarely lags in, quote, software adoption. It certainly is not only due to the lack of interest or desire to adopt software. Again, I’ll go back to the way we started. Our contractor trade base was building their own software. Um, the amount of scripting and Dynamo and PowerShell, the amount of kind of last inch customization, the tinkering is world class. Um, so our users often blend to almost like an engineer, like a developer in the software world, we call it in their day jobs. So their willingness is there. It’s the product’s complexity that makes applying software uniformly across the whole industry very difficult.

Lee Kantor: So because of the complexity and the fact that there’s, there could be a no around every corner in that world. Um, how do you help educate your clients or prospective clients so they feel confident that this is going to not only solve these problems but make their life easier?

Richard Burroughs IV: That’s a great question. So again, like software wants every use case to be the same, right? Because software has typically very low marginal cost to sell in the next client. They want every client to be the same. Well, as we just discussed, that’s not the case for our industry. So there’s a certain level of customization that you have to provide within your product. And that is a common talk track with us. So an example could be when I design as a user of EVOLVE, I by design, an electrical system in a building. I draw my conduit. I draw my support, I draw my equipment, and eventually I have thousands and thousands of parts and footage of these things inside this building design. Well, it can’t execute all of that at once. I have to break that up into a proverbial Lego brick. You know, a smaller part that I can act on tomorrow, what the industry calls a spool. And so we provide the ability to define your schools, and then you create a deliverable for that school, what we call a shot draw. And you can picture an 11 by 17 sheet of paper with a dimension drawing of some pipe and conduit and supports. Um, and maybe there’s a schedule that shows what those materials are, this, this semblance of a shotgun. Well, every company will have different standards to execute, say that shop drawing or maybe the size and start and end points of their spool. So we can provide things like templates and then the automation. Once you define your settings and templates, you can create this shop drawing the same way every time per your standard. But we’ve automated that kind of last ditch. So it’s this blend of automation and customization that allows you to serve and get over that kind of trust hump with industry.

Lee Kantor: But before your clients buy, is there a way for you to kind of give them a chance to try it on, or do they have to kind of go all in?

Richard Burroughs IV: Oh, it’s a great question. So absolutely, there’s ways to ingest their existing building designs and run, you know, a pilot in our words. Um, you certainly have to have that in a limited capacity. It’s in a controlled instance, but you can test, for instance, the previous example, I want to recreate a full template and a shop drawing template. I want to see a time trial and a B study of how long it takes me to create these deliverables and my current methods. And with EVOLVE. So we offer those services as part of pre-sales. As you move towards fabrication, it gets a bit harder. So for instance, if I want to test fabricating conduit. Well, now you have specialized machines. Uh, and there’s an interesting shift in the industry where especially for electrical, uh, machine automation has just now come about in existence. So we’re once all things were fabricated with manual or semi manual processes with hydraulic benders, you’re telling it when to start and stop. Now that work is done with an automated capacity with things like CNC bending. So what we’ve done to allow them to test that out is we actually invested in a physical fabrication lab. As we say in Atlanta. They can take their designs. We now have a CNC bender, a Positioner and the specialized equipment in Atlanta. They can submit their designs to us and then visit us in the Fab Lab Atlanta and actually run time trials and see it physically produced. But it gets a little harder there. You kind of got to fly and be there in person.

Lee Kantor: But ultimately that’s going to save, um, your client time and money. Right?

Richard Burroughs IV: Exactly. Right. I mean, the entire, uh, the reason for our existence is buildings have to be built faster today. So we run a survey every year, 68% of MEP trade contractors have experienced greater than 25% schedule reduction over the last three years. So they have 25% less time to build the same building today than three years ago or more. Um, and so the way that they accomplish that is they have shifted from on site construction assembly and installation of materials to offsite fabrication. So the metaphor I’ll use is picture a Lego brick, picture a one by one square Lego brick, the smallest instant size you could get. Picture a two by six, that larger classic brick size. Now try to build a wall that’s four feet long and two feet high. Using a one by one and a two by six. Well, you’re going to do the two by six. It would be a lot faster to build that wall. Uh, that’s the nature of the work our clients do. We allow them to create these parts, these spools, offsite, before the building reaches readiness so the concrete gets poured. The second that concrete is poured, they can go and install like this proverbial two by six brick, this larger portion of MSP and it goes much, much, much faster. So that’s kind of the core of our value proposition.

Lee Kantor: And so everything becomes integrated before, before they’re even there.

Richard Burroughs IV: Exactly. Right. So design and fabrication all have to occur before the concrete’s even poor, the building doesn’t even exist. It’s roughly akin to like buying furniture before you buy your house. You know, there’s a lot of sort of forecasting and design and understanding of what that’s going to look like, the amount of space you’ll have, the exact placement of certain parts that allows you to execute your designs and your fabrication before the building’s there.

Lee Kantor: But the technology helps you get all of that exactly right without having to, to, to be there and do it on site.

Richard Burroughs IV: That’s exactly right. So if we’re going to go build like the new T patch center, uh, in Nashville, before that building, before the site’s been cleared, before they put the foundation in, I’ve already designed that entire building down to the eighth inch, you know, every single element in that building. I know exactly how long my pipe needs to be, where my supports need to be placed, and then I can release those to my manufacturing facility and I can fabricate them. And they’re sitting there in my warehouse. And the second that concrete is poured, I can go install that order.

Lee Kantor: And so, um, when you tell that to your clients or prospective clients, is that is their head explode like that seems like too good to be true.

Richard Burroughs IV: Oh, so look, credit to industry. So these off site fabrication, doing these things in advance. Uh, it was spearheaded by the mechanical employment industries. Um, it’s now been adopted fully by electrical. So they understand that it’s the way of the future. It’s the business model of construction is becoming manufacturing. That religion is now believed, if you will. So we’re selling Bibles. To an extent for things like design automation, but where you continue to see the evolution of the business model itself is in what I referenced earlier. It’s well, now we fabricate things off site in a controlled environment, but I need to do that faster. I need to increase the production rates. And to do that, I have to I need to I need to find some innovation. I need to buy machine automation by an example. So instead of producing content with manual hand benders or semi manual hydraulic benders, I could buy a fully automated CNC bender, get 80 to 100 bins a day, and you can start seeing, well, you better have designs of a quality that can feed that vendor appropriately. So this seamless design through fabrication, all of the pre-processing and controls around what the nature of that design is, it’s that next level of maturity we know we have to fabricate off site. Well, how do we scale that? Now? That’s the question that we’re dealing with.

Lee Kantor: And then how do you deal with the fact that, like you mentioned earlier, that there’s so many, um, you know, hands on a project, how do you get everybody to communicate to the level they have to so that all of that can elegantly be put together?

Richard Burroughs IV: Um, it’s a, it’s a great question. It’s what the industry calls coordination. So let’s just say there might be 20 different trades, specialty trades and electrical and plumbing, etc., that combine to form the entirety of a building’s design, all the different systems. Well, like you said, well, what if, what if the, uh, the fire protection guy has his pipe and it’s running right through where the Hvac is supposed to go? How do you know that these things are a problem in advance before the building’s physically present? It’s what the industry calls coordination. They all create design. Those designs share the same common offering platform. It’s Autodesk Revit. Same with our clients. Uh, and then they can compare those designs. Where is the location of my part versus yours? Do I need to move or do you? And they, they will shift things around until the building has been coordinated, at which point they know that the design will equal what will become physical reality. So they can start to do things like spool those designs, release them for fabrication, bring them into existence and ready them for install.

Lee Kantor: And EVOLVE plays nicely with that kind of quarterbacking software that everybody’s already using.

Richard Burroughs IV: That’s exactly right. So that’s there’s companies like Autodesk has a Navisworks product. Revisto is a wonderful business that solves coordination quite well. So we’re how they design the building and how they detail that design and consume that design for fabrication. We play directly with how they coordinate. So they’ll use a different software for coordination.

Lee Kantor: So is then is your who is your ideal client? Is it kind of the master software so that you’re implemented in all of their projects, or is it? Do you have to kind of get individual people to buy into EVOLVE?

Richard Burroughs IV: Um, it’s always, uh, you, we want to serve the labor market and the company market equally. So our ideal client from the company perspective, it’s a trade contractor, mechanical, electrical or plumbing or a combination of, they tend to have around 75 or 100 employees. Um, they use 3D design and off site fabrication as their business model. Uh, or they want to, they recognized that prefabrication, offsite fabrication is the way of the future. They need to invest in the methods, processes, and technologies to allow them to do that so we could help them get there. Um, in terms of the high end, we serve some of the MEP industry’s largest um, trade contractors, Rosen’s and Cupertino’s, um the Harris mechanicals of the world, K Murphy co, you name it that e n r you know, 1 to 3 billion, uh, top line revenue, and locally here as well. I’d be remiss if I didn’t shout out. So like enterprise solutions, wonderful electrical contractor. They utilize prefab to build the Fisher Center performing arts, the beautiful center at Belmont. Uh, Lee co, uh, Lee company, wonderful mechanical, multi trade contractor. Um, and we also support Stancil electric. They do a lot of industrial work, like the Dry Creek wastewater facility out here in Davidson County.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share about? Uh, maybe it was early on or maybe it was just a rewarding story where, um, one of your clients deployed EVOLVE and they were able to get maybe a result that even surprised them.

Richard Burroughs IV: Absolutely. Um, let’s reference enterprise as well and pull up the actual quote here. Um. So let’s see. So enterprise solutions, they’re an electrical contractor, um, for a recent project. So if you think about the building underneath the ground, you have to pull power from the street. These huge conduits, these big pipes with huge wires coming in from the street to get power to the building. Um, these are called duct banks. So the electrical contractor has to install underground duct banks. And historically, those are done piece by piece, pipe by pipe. But what they did is they created again this idea of this Lego brick. So they took a bunch of pipes and added them into a single what they call a skid. So think about like a big metal framing that carries like 40ft of these huge pipes carrying wire, and they break that entirety up into these different skids. And they were able to do what would have taken six months of traditional work. They were able to install the entire underground duct, uh, in 48 hours. Um, so getting that gain at the field install, that’s their throughput one.

Lee Kantor: Wow. That, I mean, that sounds impossible. I mean, when you, I mean, to even have a conversation telling somebody that that’s possible, It seems too good to be true.

Richard Burroughs IV: And it’s, um, the hard part is getting there. So again, the, the magic is in the field install. If I can install that two by six Lego brick, I can move, you know, ten, 20 times faster installing material in the field. But to create that two by six slug correctly is like, that’s the hard part. That’s the upfront design plan, the coordination, the offsite fabrication. That’s, that’s where the magic is.

Lee Kantor: Right? But it’s, um, it’s just going against, you know, a person’s anything they’ve seen with their eyes prior and you’re, and you’re, it makes intellectual sense, but just having their experience in the past be so different, it just must be jaw dropping when it actually happens. Like you promise?

Richard Burroughs IV: Um, absolutely. Yep.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help?

Richard Burroughs IV: Um, look, just get the word out. So a broader appeal is the trades themselves. Um, the trades are a fantastic industry to build a career in. Uh, careers are incredibly accessible. Uh, demand is extreme. You know, there’s an oft quoted labor shortage, but that not just applies to field roles. It also applies to these design roles. It applies to these fabricator roles. You don’t have to work on a job site in the field installing material. You can be on a computer doing this design work in an office. Um, all of these roles are in huge demand right now. They’re very accessible. Not all of them need college degrees. So it’s a broader appeal. Look at the trades for your career, for your if you’re a young man or woman, you know, come out of high school, come out of college. Um, another appeal is for folks to understand really who’s carrying the weight of the economy. Obviously that’s a broad statement, but when you think about things like AI, these emerging technologies, if you think about the semiconductor, the chips that power, the data centers that that provide the processing for AI? All of those buildings are being built by the trades. A huge portion of the data center projects cost and material and labor is carried by the electrical. So, um, and so the growth that we’re seeing in the MEP broadly and the amount of work they’re doing to support the broader economies march towards these new technologies, it goes unnoticed. People don’t realize how critical these MEP trade contractors really are. So the awareness is is really the summary for me. Just be aware of what’s happening in the trades as they EVOLVE from construction trade contractors to manufacturing driven trade contractors.

Lee Kantor: Now, from the standpoint of your ideal customer, what are they? What’s the pain they’re having right before they hire you? What is kind of some signals that, hey, maybe they should contact Richard and his team?

Richard Burroughs IV: Yeah, it’s a great question. Um, oftentimes you’ll have. The company will not have standards. So I’ll go back to the. The previous example of a shop drawing is a shop drawing produced for a given, say, hangar or a piece of conduit or a rack of a few pieces of conduit. Is it produced the same way every time? Uh, does it have all the dimensions and bills of materials, the instructions needed on that sheet for the fabricators and material folks downstream to do their jobs the first time and not have an information retrieval wastage problem. Um, we see that very commonly. Um, the second piece you look at is if there’s no standardization or if there is, well, how long does it take you to produce that deliverable? Are you modeling your design manually? Click by click by click. Are you placing your hangers? You know, adding these details manually? Click by click. And if we see that symptom as well, then it’s a reflection that our automation can really increase your productivity. Roughly 1.3 x about 25% time savings gets you about 1.3 x gain on productivity. So those are the common signs that we see.

Lee Kantor: And if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Richard Burroughs IV: Absolutely. Lee. So our website is WW. Dot com. Uh, and I live in Nashville, so find me on LinkedIn. Let’s, let’s grab coffee sometime.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Well, Richard, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Richard Burroughs IV: Hey, Lee, credit to the trades. And thank you, sir for having me.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Nashville Business Radio.

The Mavrik Method: Precision Coaching to Break Stress and Build Wealth Fast

by

High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
The Mavrik Method: Precision Coaching to Break Stress and Build Wealth Fast
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee interviews Erick Pettersen, “The Mindset Mavrik,” a business and mindset coach. Erick explains how he helps entrepreneurs and high-wealth earners recalibrate their nervous systems and shift their identities to unlock greater success. Drawing from his background in content marketing, he transitioned into coaching by helping clients release subconscious blocks stored in the body through breathwork, somatic exercises, and mindset work. Erick emphasizes slowing down to identify internal hesitations, offers three- and six-month coaching programs, and is developing a group program called the Mavrik Brotherhood.

Erick Pettersen works with high-performing entrepreneurs and leaders to stabilize execution, elevate decision-making, and align their identity with the level of wealth and impact they’re capable of creating.

Rather than focusing on strategy alone, he helps individuals close the gap between what they know and how they show up—eliminating inconsistency, hesitation, and overthinking under pressure.

His work centers on what he calls “wealth identity”—the internal standard that drives execution, results, and long-term success.

Through his frameworks and private work, Erick supports leaders in operating with clarity, consistency, and precision at higher levels of performance.

Connect with Erick on LinkedIn, Facebook and X.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • The role of mindset in achieving wealth and success.
  • Techniques for recalibrating the nervous system.
  • The importance of addressing subconscious blocks and stress.
  • The impact of past traumas on current decision-making.
  • Methods such as somatic bodywork and breathwork for personal development.
  • Common mistakes that hinder progress for entrepreneurs and high-wealth earners.
  • The transition from content marketing to coaching.
  • Identifying signs that someone may need coaching.
  • The structure and goals of early coaching sessions.
  • The delivery methods of coaching services (one-on-one, group, virtual).

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on this show we have Erick Pettersenn and he is with The Mindset Mavrik. Welcome.

Erick Pettersen: Thank you so much. I’m so glad to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about The Mindset Mavrik. How you serving folks?

Erick Pettersen: Oh well, The Mindset Mavrik you can look at it as business coaching, but it’s really more than business coaching. Really what I do is I help entrepreneurs and high wealth people just to, uh, to recalibrate their nervous system so that they can step into a new identity and, and just to receive more wealth.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Erick Pettersen: Absolutely. My, my backstory is I, I was in content marketing and online marketing before this for several years. Uh, so I had to work with some very high level people, uh, some online influencers. And in that, and, you know, I just, I really had to show up and I had to step into that identity of, I deserve to be here. I deserve to be in the same room with these high level people. And from that, I learned how to create wealth within that industry and how to, uh, be the best version of myself. And I just took that once I started taking all the content jobs, you know, I just, uh, took, took, took what I knew and decided to help other people, uh, step into their wealth identities and, uh, recalibrate their nervous systems.

Lee Kantor: So how did you come up with the concept of it being a lot of it based upon their mindset?

Erick Pettersen: Right, right. Okay. The mindset. So as far as the mindset, that’s really, that’s really the, the beginning of it. It’s really your identity, uh, your mindset. Uh, that’s, that’s really about, you know, the positive affirmations and, and whatnot that just, you know, uh, manifestation stuff. Whereas that’s really the bottom level, the base level, uh, it gets into the identity you want to, you know, you want to use your mindset to shift into a new identity because if you don’t shift into that identity of, I deserve to be here, I deserve to be in this room, I am the right person for this. Then having a positive mindset isn’t really going to do much.

Lee Kantor: So when did you start kind of getting clients and Demonstrating that you knew how to move somebody from not wealthy to wealthy.

Erick Pettersen: Well, as far as getting clients, as far as helping people to move from, from, uh, not wealthy to wealthy or from increasing the capacity for more wealth, really that that journey just happened through conversations. You know, just having conversations with people. And it wasn’t always, it didn’t start out in a paid setting. It started out, uh, you know, me having conversations with friends, me having conversations with business colleagues at networking events and then just receiving emails or LinkedIn messages from them saying, hey, what you, what you said really helped to shift my, my mindset and really helped to open my eyes. And from there, you know, one person after another just started, started to refer me and became a business.

Lee Kantor: Now, having done this for a while, have you learned some kind of mistakes that are common for folks? Do you see some of the same, uh, kind of thinking that is holding back a lot of people?

Erick Pettersen: As far as, uh, as far as common mistakes? Uh, yeah, I would say people tend to mistakes from, from the past. Maybe the, they hold on to them internally, subconsciously. And I think of the, the book. I can’t, uh, I know you’ve probably read many of your listeners have probably read it, uh, the body keeps the score. Uh, and I believe it’s, it’s in that book where the author, you know, all throughout that book really talks about the body, the nervous system, keeping, keeping the score and that I think that a lot of times, whether it’s something in business or personal lives that, uh, you know, entrepreneurs have often, uh, Um earners. The they tend to hold on to maybe past some mistakes, either from the childhood or bad business mistake or something like that, where, you know, mentally, subconsciously, they may have, uh, released it, but it’s still in their body and they need to release it somatically through, through, uh, different somatic movements, gestures, whatever that is.

Lee Kantor: Now, do you find that, uh, on the, with the individuals you’re coaching, if they are under a great deal of pressure or there’s a lot of stress in their life, is this negatively impacting their ability to make the right kind of decisions so they can get to a new level?

Erick Pettersen: Mhm. Uh, yeah, as far as if there’s, there’s a lot of, lot of stress in their lives. Yes. And I think as far as it’s very important to, to reduce that stress, first of all, identify those stress points, uh, to reduce, uh, to reduce that stress. And and that, as I said, whether it’s through breathwork, somatic body bodywork, whatever, uh, whatever it is, uh, to, to find ways to release it, to release that, that pressure. Um, and then once you release that pressure, you know, you’re going to be able to make better, cleaner, uh, decisions with just with more precision and move forward faster.

Lee Kantor: Now, do you remember maybe early on when you were coaching someone and you, um, they listened to you and they were able to get to a new level and you, you realized, hey, I might be onto something here. I think I am the right person to be sharing this kind of information. And if so, can you share what that challenge was that person was going through and how you were able to help them get to this new level?

Erick Pettersen: Okay. Um, as far as, uh, helping, helping someone get to the new level, you know, I think of, uh, I think back to, uh, to someone that I was helping them. They were actually writing, uh, writing a book. And, um, you know, they didn’t feel like they, they deserved to, to write that book and whatnot. And, uh, you know, really the, the way I helped them was just, it was a memoir about their life. Just really the way I helped them was, listen, I told them, there are people out there who need to hear your message. There are people out there who will receive healing because of your message. And you were and it’s, you know, and I told them, it’s not fair what you went through in your life, but your story is going to help set other people free. It’s going to help them to not go through similar stories. Uh, you went through, it’s going to encourage them. So once you see, uh, your offer as I am serving others. I think that’s really the mental shift is it’s not just about making money, it’s about serving others. What am I put here on earth to do? Uh, how how how can my identity, you know, um, how can I be the person who shifts the atmosphere for someone else or helps them, uh, through their difficult situation?

Lee Kantor: So who is your ideal client? What, what is kind of the profile of an ideal client for The Mindset Mavrik.

Erick Pettersen: So, uh, the profile for, for an ideal client for The Mindset Mavrik really would be a high earner. Um, you know, really entrepreneurs and, and I, I work mostly with men. Um, so, uh, it’s just that, uh, the high level earner, the entrepreneur and, uh, he doesn’t have to be someone that that seven eight digit figure or even six digit figure can be someone who’s, uh, who’s just starting out in, in business and whatnot. But, uh, really, um, he’s someone who’s looking for precision. He’s looking for someone who knows that he has more to offer the world. He has more to, uh, you know, he has something inside him. He believes in himself, but he’s just maybe has, you know, a he needs he needs help in a couple of areas that are a few areas, whatever where, uh, um, he’s not quite sure how to level up and, but he knows he’s ready to get there because he has the world, um, you know, more to offer the world.

Lee Kantor: So what are those kind of symptoms or signals that maybe he does need a coach, like what’s going on in his life that that maybe are signals that he’s just not identifying or he’s not seeing as something that a coach might be able to help him with.

Erick Pettersen: Right? Right. Uh, well, you know, uh, as, as far as, as far as signals, uh, I would honestly have to say it can show up, uh, you know, maybe as there’s pressure and something outside of work. Maybe it’s something in his personal life. Maybe it’s something in with the relationship with someone that, you know, he’s just not sure how to deal with that, you know, that situation or whatever. Maybe it’s something he doesn’t even know about. Uh, you know, and he needs help identifying it. And, you know, he thinks everything’s great, everything’s going well, but, uh, you know, he doesn’t quite know where the pressure is. He just needs someone to help him identify that pressure and help him release that pressure. Uh, whether that comes from, uh, you know, something finances, relationship, uh, something from his childhood, even. So yeah.

Lee Kantor: So when a person starts working with you, what are those early sessions look like? Do you give them some pre homework or some work they have to do before they even get started? Like what does an early session or two with you look like?

Erick Pettersen: Uh, well, in an early session is just really a really conversations and, and that it’s all about as far as my clients, it’s all about the work that they, they decide to, they decide to do. I, I give them work and that it’s really the work I give them is really a lot of somatic, uh, body work and that different things like breathwork, uh, and whatnot, meditation, mindset work and, and whatnot. Um, during the conversations, we really focus on precision. I’ll ask them questions to really get down to, uh, you know, where’s the pressure? Uh, what’s causing the pressure? How can I help you to release that pressure and whatnot? So no one session looks like another, but they’re always going to, you know. I’m going to get them between one session and another. I’m going to give them, uh. I don’t want to call it homework. I’m going to give them, uh, you know, uh, I guess you could say, uh, a packet or whatnot or suggestions. Just as you might go to a doctor and they’ll give you suggestions between one one appointment to another of what you should do, whether it’s taking medication or whether it’s doing exercises. I’ll do the same thing. Just it’s more of somatic body work that I help them. Help them do.

Lee Kantor: Now, how quickly do your clients see some, uh, results where they can say, okay, I think I’m on the right track.

Erick Pettersen: Right? Well, really, it depends from one client to another, uh, where they are and what kind of results they want, whether they just want a quick tune up or whether they’re starting off, uh, from the, from the ground level. But you know, and I think that’s one of the differences between myself and a lot of other coaches is a lot of other coaches. You just keep going and keep going until you know the goals and whatnot. For myself, I want to get you in and out of there, you know, through through the coaching. As you know, as quickly as possible or not as quickly as possible, but within a reasonable timeline. So I have three, three month and six month programs. My, my, uh, my purpose isn’t to keep a person in there for a year or five years or whatever. So yeah, three month and six month programs.

Lee Kantor: And how do you deliver your coaching? Is it mostly one on one? Is it, uh, in person? Is it via Zoom or do you have online, you know, kind of do it as you want to, uh, courses like how do you deliver the service?

Erick Pettersen: Right? I have, I do one on one coaching right now. Uh, I will be sending up group, uh, group coaching programs that is, uh, and my group coaching programs that will be on something called the Mavrik Brotherhood. So, uh, yeah, I’ll be setting that up. Uh, and then, but yeah, one on one coaching right now is, is what I primarily do. And that’s, uh, that’s on, on zoom calls, uh, unless someone happens to be in the North County, San Diego area, then, you know, we might be able to make arrangements, but right now it’s primarily group calls.

Lee Kantor: And is there any actionable piece of advice you could give our listener right now that might make a difference if they’re stuck, is there something they could be doing right this second? Uh, just, you know, with you, uh, sharing some advice for them.

Erick Pettersen: I would, I would say, uh, you know, as far as if you’re feeling stuck right now is, uh, you know, stop, stop trying to do more, uh, pay attention to, uh, to how you’re, you’re showing up, uh, and, and look at, look at your execution. So, you know, it’s, um. Where are you hesitating and in your body. What? Uh, you know, a lot of times people know what to do, but, uh, they’re just not taking, taking action. So rather than trying to do more, I would say, uh, I would say right now, slow down, slow down and really look at, um, you know, evaluate, uh, where you’re hesitating and what’s going to move you forward. And once you feel that in your body, uh, you know, I think, uh, you’ll be able to, to move forward more cleanly and with more precision.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more and have a more substantive conversation, what is the website? What is the best way to connect with you?

Erick Pettersen: Uh, yes, my, my website is the mindset Mavrik. Mavrik is spelled M a v r i k themindsetmaverik.com. That’s E r i c k or I’m active on LinkedIn. Um, and you can just look at, look at my, my name Eric Patterson or it’s forward slash I am the mindset mavrik in that or I’m also on Instagram. So, so those three ways, either emailing me or Instagram or LinkedIn are the best ways.

Lee Kantor: Well, Eric, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Erick Pettersen: Absolutely. Great. Thank you Lee, I appreciate it.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Go Further: Strategies for Leadership, Growth, and Self-Mastery

by

High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Go Further: Strategies for Leadership, Growth, and Self-Mastery
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On this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee Kantor welcomes Laurence Anthony, founder of Go Further Coaching, to discuss the art of helping high-performing individuals and teams reach their full potential. Laurence shares his journey from careers in film, luxury real estate, and consulting to discovering his true purpose in coaching. He dives into how he empowers clients to overcome fear, build confidence, and make decisions that align with their values and future selves. From Fortune 100 executives to individuals navigating life transitions, Laurence reveals practical insights on moving from “should” to “could” and taking action that leads to personal and professional growth.

Laurence Anthony is the founder of Go Further Coaching and a sought-after coach for senior leaders and executive teams who want to go further. As an ICF-PCC level coach, he blends executive coaching with high-impact training so teams lead better, communicate stronger, and execute with consistency.

He has delivered leadership and performance engagements for organizations including Google, RBC, and United Airlines, bringing practical, real-world frameworks that help leaders build trust, alignment, and performance in high-expectation environments.

Connect with Laurence on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • How high-performing individuals and teams can overcome fear and take action with confidence.
  • The difference between confidence and self-esteem, and why both matter for personal and professional growth.
  • Practical strategies for slowing down, reflecting, and making better decisions under pressure.
  • How to shift from “should” to “could” to unlock creativity, possibilities, and authentic leadership.
  • Signs it might be the right time to invest in coaching for career, relationships, or life transitions.
  • Stories and insights from coaching executives, athletes, and everyday individuals to reach their full potential.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have Laurence Anthony with Go Further Coaching. Welcome.

Laurence Anthony: It is such a pleasure. Lee. It is. It is such a pleasure. How are you?

Lee Kantor: I am doing great. I am so excited to learn about your practice. Tell us about Go Further Coaching. How are you serving folks?

Laurence Anthony: Well, that’s such a great question. It’s such an honor to be on. That’s an interesting question because the best way to say it is that my purpose is changing lives professionally and personally, and that’s the work that I get to do every single day. I work with individuals, top performers, athletes, executives, CEOs, leaders, and taking them from where they are to where they want to be. These are sometimes elite, high performing individuals and teams. Sometimes these are folks who are looking to get to the next level, or who are looking to kind of expand their horizons or maybe just make a big change in their lives.

Lee Kantor: So what is your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Laurence Anthony: Great question. So I got involved with this line of work. And you know, it’s funny, I don’t even consider it to be a job, right? This is who I am and it’s the best way to answer it is I grew up working with individuals who were at the top of their game. I’ve done everything but flown a plane. I have run two restaurants in New York, got best restaurant in the country. I used to be in film and TV, had a movie that opened number one in the world, but I wasn’t really fulfilled or luxury real estate in New York. I’d done a bunch, but I wasn’t finding my fulfillment. I didn’t find my purpose. And so for me, the purpose became, let’s look back in the past. What is the evidence that I have to kind of give me a signal as to what I enjoy doing. When I looked at the past, when I looked at the things that I had done, there was always a linear story and a through line of working with individuals, wanting folks to kind of be at their best potential to maximize their potential and to help and serve. I tell everyone I’m a servant. I get to serve great performers, great leaders. That’s what I’ve done throughout it. And I would have folks, CEOs, executives, leaders, athletes ask me, Laurence, what do you think about this? You know, what are you what’s your what’s your insight? What’s your take on this? And I said, well, I’m always in that position and I always find myself wanting to give unsolicited advice or unsolicited guidance anyway, so there’s something here. And I said, you know what? I think I’m a coach. I’ve always loved motivating people. I’ve always loved listening to people, and I’ve always loved seeing people win, which is ultimately at the core of what I do is I get to see teams and individuals win.

Lee Kantor: So did you have kind of a mentor or some sort of a philosophy template like, or does this just stuff that you’ve learned over time and you’ve kind of created a coaching, um, methodology around?

Laurence Anthony: It’s a great question, you know, and that’s a question that a lot of folks ask me. Like, you know, how did you, how did you get involved with this? And I didn’t have a mentor at all. Uh, my mentor, I tell everyone was life. You know, a lot of my mentorships came from experiences, came from some tough challenges, but also some great wins and successes. So my mentors were all those people around me. My mentors were my mom, my grandparents, uh, my successful friends, my friends who maybe weren’t quote unquote successful, but trying to get to that level. My mentors were just life and all the different experiences. I think that’s why it’s really important that I list all the things that I’ve been a part of is because a lot of those experiences allowed me to show up the way that I am now. So working in restaurants taught me how to interact with different personalities, how to interact with different people. Working in luxury real estate in New York taught me how to sell, how to be around high performing individuals, people who are absolutely demanding the best not just of their home, but life. Working in a consulting and coaching firm for eight and a half years taught me to have presence, how to be in a room full of people, whether it’s one person I’m interacting with or over 150, 200, which I’ve been in. So all those kind of experiences served as mentors for me in terms of what I was able to do. So by the time that I left my consulting firm and I started my own coaching firm, I had already had 15 plus years of experience and mentorship.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re working with your clients, how do you help them when they’re in a world like you mentioned earlier, that you started or, or at least some part of your career was involved in show business and acting in that world. There’s a lot of, um, pick me kind of mentality where you’re you and the people who hire you are picking you amongst a pile of other people that are kind of like you. How do you, um, move a person from this pick me mentality to I have more agency and I can, I have more control over some elements of these things.

Laurence Anthony: It’s a great question. And one of the things that comes up, you know, what I’m really hearing from you is, you know, what I’m taking from that question is how you believe in yourself. And you know, when you’re working in film and TV, as I was, and I was very fortunate that, you know, when I got into TV and film, you know, I booked auditions my first year, you know, I started saw one of the saw movies, a horror franchise, and the movie opened up one in the world on my birthday. You know, I was on Degrassi with with Drake. I did 30 Rock, right? And so I had had some relatively early success early in my career. And what got me to leave the arts from a film and TV standpoint was exactly what you’re talking about. This idea of pick me. I couldn’t wrap my head around walking into an audition and letting other folks determine my fate, and letting other folks determine essentially, my capability or my worth. And it just didn’t sit right for me. And so for me, I said, well, I know what I’m worth. I know how I can perform it. A lot of it is very subjective, right? A lot of it is whether the cast and director, director or producer woke up one day and said, oh, you know, this person’s got it, or I like this person.

Laurence Anthony: It was just too much out of my control. And as someone who is somewhat of, of a control freak while also understanding that we don’t really have much control. I said, no, I want to be the master of my own fate, and I want to be the one who’s going to be the decision maker in the ways that I move. And I said, well, that’s risky, but it’s going to have to pay off because I’m going to choose that. And I just, I just didn’t, I couldn’t wrap my head around waiting for someone to choose me. So I ended up choosing myself. I ended up choosing my path. I ended up choosing the, you know, the things that I believe in. And that’s a gamble and that’s a risk. But I’m also someone who is not risk averse. I tell everyone I’m like, Captain Kirk, I am ready to adventure and check out some new planet. So for me, it was just a matter of betting on myself.

Lee Kantor: Now, since you’re right now dealing with a lot of, uh, high level executives, obviously they also decided to to bet on themselves. Um, how do you kind of advise the person who isn’t there yet but aspires to be? How do they get the confidence to believe in themselves and bet on themselves rather than just kind of going along for the ride?

Laurence Anthony: You know, Lee, in my experience and in my profession as a coach, I see a number of individuals and the individuals to me that I get the luxury of speaking to and working with and coaching are the ones who say, there’s something inside me. There’s a little voice that I want to listen to. Now, I genuinely think we all have that. And for some people, they don’t want to listen to that voice. And that’s absolutely okay. Some people want security, want stability. Um, and some folks are just very fine being comfortable, not taking a risk. And I do not judge that whatsoever because it takes all shapes and sizes. The, the coach in me gets to work with people who say, okay, maybe I have been stable, but there’s been a voice inside me calling me to do something else. Or maybe I have been on this path, but maybe it’s not my path. Maybe I thought I wanted this, but I actually don’t. And for me, it’s. I tell everyone I’m kind of like Rafiki from The Lion King. My job is to help you remember who you are. My job is to help. My job is to help. You kind of listen to that inner voice and plant that seed and just try to give a little bit of space for that inner voice to be a little bit louder and to be a little bit more authentic, a little bit true.

Lee Kantor: So do you think that it’s fear that’s holding these people back? Like what is where, what is the thing that, um, because I’m with you and I’ve always been the one like you, I’m willing to bet on myself because I have a lot of confidence in myself, but a lot of folks out there just are kind of, I don’t know, it’s a belief of security, which I don’t think is real. I think that’s kind of a rationalization. But how do you move them to believe in themselves enough to invest in themselves and to take the action that is needed, not just the, you know, to turn a dream into a reality. Even though it may not go as planned, it will definitely go somewhere.

Laurence Anthony: You hit the word on the head. It’s my favorite four letter F word. Li it’s fear and we all encounter it. We all experience it. Look, you know, fear is such an interesting element. I’m fascinated by fear because fear can serve as a paralyzer or it can serve as a motivator. And for many individuals, fear serves as a paralyzer. Many folks encounter fear and say, oh my gosh, this is too much. This mountain is too big. I can’t scale it. What happens if I fail? Which is a fair thought. The interesting thing with fear is that we cannot be fearless. It is impossible to be fearless. What I coach a number of individuals and teams of successful brands companies on is. Since you can’t be fearless. The goal is how to reduce fear. How to fear less in order to go further. That is essentially what I am invested in doing. That is one of my life purposes, is how do we get folks to confront their fear? Because we all have it personally. Professionally, either fear from our past experiences that we’ve had to encounter. And so it’s looking at that fear confronting and saying, I’m going to do it scared anyway. Okay, yeah, this is a little scary, but I’m going to step into that job. I’m going to go for that promotion. I’m going to maybe try that new career. I’m going to step into that relationship. It is acknowledging the fear and going beyond that. That’s not for everyone. And that’s absolutely okay. But I do think all of us could benefit from acknowledging the truth. I’m a little scared about this or I’m a little worried. Okay, now what do I do? What could I do with it now?

Lee Kantor: How do you coach folks that are, you know, That moment of decision of should I pursue this or that? They can rationalize not making a move for ways that seem logical, but maybe it’s fear that’s holding them back. Like how do they even have the self-awareness? Or how do you help them get the self-awareness to look at that kind of, um, point of inflection in a way that, hey, you think you’re being, uh, prudent here, but you’re really being fearful.

Laurence Anthony: Well, you really were you really talking about is the self-awareness and having that moment and what I do, what I specialize in, one of the things is getting you to slow down. Lee. We work and operate and live in such a fast paced life, and it’s only getting faster. The goal is how to slow things down. If you think about, think about some of the great athletes. You think about what they all say whenever they’re either doing well in a game or a match, or maybe when it’s over and they’re being interviewed. Often you’ll hear them say the game just slowed down or time seems to slow down. Now, we can’t scientifically slow things down and slow time down, but what we can do is slow ourselves down and we can check in with ourselves and regulate ourselves and start to ask questions. Okay, what am I experiencing? What am I feeling? What could I do next? By slowing things down, it allows us to do a number of things. It allows us to confront fear, acknowledge that it exists, and then say, okay, what do I want to do about it? By slowing things down, the second thing that it does, it allows us to think about the next action that we want to take and to either mitigate the risk or to kind of just evaluate, all right, I know this is going to be a challenge yet how am I going to embrace this challenge? The problem becomes we don’t slow things down. And so then we end up reacting. And I always tell everyone, it’s not how you act, it’s how you react. And the best way to control your reaction is by slowing things down, giving yourself time to pause and think and asking, okay, how do I want to react to this situation, this circumstance? What do I want to do next?

Lee Kantor: Now, I read a book, um, that says kind of humanity lives in that space between stimulus and response. Uh, that’s your choice. That’s where you can make a decision. Um, but when there’s fear involved or you’re, you’re kind of not really living towards your true, true north or your values and you’re in a situation where you’re making a, a bad decision or a self-destructive decision. How do you help your clients kind of take that moment that you describe? Are there kind of exercises or there’s tools because everyone has that point where it’s like, okay, right here, this is I have to choose, am I going to go down this road where this does not. You know this. Maybe this doesn’t look or feel right, but it seems like fun or whatever the rationalization is. Or do I make maybe a harder decision to say, you know what? Not tonight. I’m not going to do this behavior. How do you help them in that in that moment of, um, you know, I have to make a call and I don’t want to do something that might feel fun or, um, good today, but may not really help me get to the outcome I ultimately desire. Whatever my values are true, North is.

Laurence Anthony: Yeah. And that is, that is a challenge that a number of my clients experience, right? A number of my clients who I work with will ask, okay, or I’ll ask them rather, I’ll ask my clients, where do you see yourself? Now, that’s not where do you see yourself in five years? I don’t, I don’t, you know, I don’t care about that as much. But I asked, what version of yourself do you want to live with? And this is the important question because you’re asking, okay, how do I decide essentially in a moment, how do I make a decision within that moment to propel me forward? Now that could be anything as small as working out. It’s 6 a.m., 7 a.m., and you’re torn. I don’t really want to get up in the morning and and work out. It’s cold. But then you ask yourself, okay, what version of myself am I working out for? And am I working out for the version of myself that I want to be better? Am I work out for that version of myself where you know what, I kind of want to live a little bit longer.

Laurence Anthony: I want to have a healthy life. So the commitment isn’t necessarily to the version of you. Now, it’s a commitment that you’re making to the version of yourself in the future. So what that means is asking, what kind of individual do I want to be? And I think when we ask that, it becomes a lot clearer because then essentially we’ve got either two paths and sometimes more than two paths, and you get to explore, okay, play the tape forward. If I go down path A, this is what is going to happen. How comfortable am I going down path A? If I’m not, then that answer is right there. Then it’s path B. What about path B excites me. What about path B? Even though it might be challenging? What about path B is calling to me? And is that the kind of world that I want to live in? Do I want to pursue that path to get to the end destination? Because both of those paths are going to lead to a destination. The question becomes, which destination are you going to be comfortable living in?

Lee Kantor: Now, who is kind of the ideal client for you? What type of organization or what type of individual, um, is kind of your perfect fit client?

Laurence Anthony: You’re asking who is my ideal client? Who is a perfect fit? You know, that’s an easy answer. Anyone who is looking to no pun intended, go further. I’ll tell you this. I can’t work with individuals who have no desire to ask questions or no desire to think. What could I do? If you are not someone who is looking to either improve your life, improve your relationship, improve, improve your career, or even just be curious. I work with curious individuals and that’s what lights me up. I want to work with people who are curious now. Don’t get me wrong, some folks are stuck. Some folks are trying to figure it out. And that’s also where I step in. But I work with individuals who at least there’s a strong desire, or at least even a tiny, tiny voice that says, I want more. I want to be better. I want to live, lead, and love better. And if you’ve got that, I can work with you. Some of my clients are fortune 100 companies. I coach folks at United Airlines, right? I’m the person who’s responsible for going in to teams within one of the top airlines in the country to coach their teams. I am the person responsible. I just gave a talk at Google. So I’m working with top elite performers and executives, but I also work with individuals who are trying to find their way. And for me, that’s what lights me up, is working with people who are maybe unsure of what their next step is, or are going through a life transition or career transition. And that’s where I get fuel, is how I can help navigate that, because I think it’s a little challenging and all of us experience that. So if you can do it with someone who is seasoned, who’s got the expertise, who’s been trained as I am, then it becomes an enjoyable journey. That journey becomes a lot less enjoyable when we’re doing it on our own, and we’re somehow stumbling around in the dark.

Lee Kantor: Now, what are some symptoms or signals for a person listening right now that, hey, maybe I should get in touch with Laurence and his team? What what’s happening right now for me that maybe I’m misinterpreting or I’m not seeing as, hey, this is a time, this is a perfect time for me to start talking to a coach.

Laurence Anthony: Yeah. I think if you ask yourself a few questions, I think the ideal questions you want to ask yourself. If you think about working with a coach, are am I satisfied with who I am right now? Or is there something more. Do I find myself questioning my career choice? Do I find myself questioning my leadership style? Am I thinking, you know what? Maybe I want to be a better leader. Maybe I want to have a better communication, uh, funnel with my team. Maybe I want to listen more. Maybe I find that I’ve heard some feedback that might sound tough to hear, but there might be a kernel of truth. Maybe I want to change my life. And I think a lot of us have that mirror in our room where we go into that room and we look in the mirror, and that’s the one place we can be truthful with ourselves. And if you can go into that room and look in that mirror and ask yourself, am I happy with where I am right now? Am I happy in the position I’m in? I’m happy in the relationship I’m in? Do I think I could be better? Even just start with that. Do I think it. Or I could be better. Then that’s an amazing place to start with me as a coach.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share? Maybe. Um, don’t name their names, but maybe share. Uh. A person came to you with a challenge, and you were able to help them get to a new level and maybe surprise you and themselves.

Laurence Anthony: I’m doing that every day of my life, working with individuals and teams who constantly surprise me in terms of their capabilities and possibly surprise me in their capacity for change. And, you know, there’s so many different stories. I’ll tell you this one I had, I had an individual who came to me, it was a very successful individual. Um, works in, in the military. God bless. And came to me and this, this man has extreme high confidence. You have to have high confidence to be able to perform at some of the highest levels in our armed forces. And he said, you know, I know I can fly, I know I can, you know, be in the military, I know I can lead my troops, I know I can do all this, but I, I’m unsure about some areas of my life. I’m unsure about, you know, how I kind of move forward, right? And so it was a confidence issue. It was a confidence issue. And I kind of boil things down to confidence and self-esteem. And you have individuals who have very high confidence and sometimes low self-esteem, and you have individuals who have very high self-esteem and sometimes low confidence. I work with both of those and with this particular individual, again, who’s just massively amazing and successful, just so much integrity. One of the works that we needed to kind of invest in was how to increase his confidence, not necessarily in his profession, but in his personal life, because the two go hand in hand. And to see that that transition, to see that shift, you know, was just one of the best experiences of my life. Because not only am I serving, which I get a lot of joy out of, but I’m serving someone who is serving his country and that is beyond rewarding.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there any kind of actionable advice you can give a leader? Right now, they can do today that would make them more effective?

Laurence Anthony: Absolutely. Except one thing. I never give advice and I tell every single one of my clients, teams, individuals, brands, I don’t give advice. And here’s why. That’s a two part answer. I’m going to give you both answers. One, if I give advice to a client or a team or company, and if that client team or company succeeds, then that victory is not theirs. It becomes my victory. So that’s why I don’t give advice. However, if I give them advice and it doesn’t pan out, then that loss they don’t own either. It becomes. Laurence gave us bad advice. Ultimately, my job. My purpose is to empower individuals and teams To make their decisions and to feel confident and to step forward with conviction. I’m not saying step forward with perfection, but with conviction and be able to own their wins. And sometimes when things don’t work out and know that I’m also there to support them across the board, win, lose or not. That’s the first part. The second part is, since I don’t give advice, I give frameworks, I give lessons, I give stories, and I think one of the best things I can say to anyone is move from should to could. I talk about this all the time. If you think about it, all of us are really just little children in grown up bodies. And why do we love kids? We love kids and we love seeing kids play and use their imagination because anything is possible.

Laurence Anthony: Something happens when we become older. We stop thinking anything is possible and we stop living in. What could I do? What could this look like? Imagination. Imagination. And we start moving into what should I do? What do I have to do? What do I need to do now? Of course, responsibilities happen and life happens where we’ve got to. We’ve got to step into those roles and we’ve. And there’s things that we’re much more responsible for. But that balance is important is. I think a lot of us spend a lot of time and should need and have, which all it does is create pressure and we don’t spend as much time and could. And what’s possible and what do I really want? So I would encourage any single leader, any single individual, any single team listening to this to think about what you could do. What could it look like? How could you lead better? How could you love better? How could you live better? Instead of what do I have to do? Have to ensure all that does is create pressure and force us into roles that we don’t necessarily love, or could allows us to maybe step into roles that we feel are much more authentic to who we are.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, what is the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Laurence Anthony: Oh, well, they’ll speak to me directly. I’ve got a phenomenal team who I am beyond grateful for. There’s no way that I get anywhere, uh, where I am now without my team. None of us do it alone, which is the absolute truth. But if folks want to reach out, they can get us on our website, which is www.gofurther.com. We’re on Instagram at Go Further as well. And of course, a lot of our clients, a lot of our friends, a lot of individuals who look for us can find us on LinkedIn. I’m at Laurence Anthony.

Lee Kantor: Well, Laurence, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Laurence Anthony: Uh, Lee, thank you for the time. Thank you for the great questions and thanks for the conversation. It’s a pleasure.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Breaking the Cycle: How The Landing Empowers Survivors of Human Trafficking

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Breaking the Cycle: How The Landing Empowers Survivors of Human Trafficking
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee interviews Mindy LeBlanc, Chief Development Officer at The Landing, shares how the Houston-based nonprofit supports survivors of human trafficking and commercial sexual exploitation. Celebrating its 10th anniversary, The Landing provides trauma-informed care, resources, and community support to help survivors find stability, healing, and independence. Mindy discusses the realities and misconceptions surrounding human trafficking, the growing need for survivor services, and how organizations, businesses, and community members can get involved to make a meaningful impact in the fight against exploitation.

Mindy LeBlanc brings over 20 years of fundraising leadership to The Landing, where she plays a critical role in advancing the organization’s mission to serve survivors of human trafficking and commercial sexual exploitation.

As the Chief Development Officer, she leads strategic fundraising initiatives, fosters meaningful donor relationships, and builds partnerships that help sustain and grow The Landing’s impact.

Prior to joining The Landing, she served as Director of Development at KIPP Texas Public Schools, where she led a successful $1 million fundraising gala and provided strategic direction for regional development efforts.

Before that, she served as Executive Director of Pathways for Little Feet, a Christian nonprofit supporting adoptive and foster families through financial assistance. In that role, she led all fundraising efforts and expanded the organization’s reach and impact.

She spent the first 15 years of her career with the National Multiple Sclerosis Society, where she was instrumental in the growth of the BP MS 150 Bike Ride. Her leadership contributed to raising over $20 million in several years to support individuals living with MS, and she developed innovative fundraising strategies that engaged and retained major supporters.

She holds a degree in Exercise Science from Texas Tech University and earned a teaching certificate, later teaching kindergarten for four years in Humble I.S.D.

She and her husband, Mark, enjoy spending time outdoors with their daughter, Adeline. As an avid runner, hiker, and tennis enthusiast, she finds renewal in nature and enjoys traveling to the Texas Hill Country and Colorado. Mindy and her daughter are members of National Charity League and understand the importance in serving and giving back.

Her family is actively involved at Sugar Creek Baptist Church, and her favorite verse, Proverbs 3:5-6, reflects her approach to life and leadership: “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths.”

Connect with Mindy on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Understanding the scope of human trafficking globally and in the U.S., including sex and labor exploitation.
  • Recognizing the vulnerabilities that lead to trafficking, such as poverty, homelessness, and abuse.
  • Exploring The Landing’s trauma-informed approach to support survivors, including day centers, counseling, and empowerment programs.
  • Identifying common myths and misconceptions about trafficking, including who it affects and how it happens.
  • Learning the role of community, businesses, and donors in providing resources and support.
  • Highlighting practical ways to get involved, including volunteering, corporate partnerships, and advocacy.
  • Appreciating the impact of survivor programs, from stabilization to long-term empowerment and breaking generational cycles.
  • Understanding the importance of education and awareness, especially around major events that may increase trafficking risks.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today’s episode is brought to you by Baumeyer Coaching, multiply profits magnify impact executive coaching to elevate individual and team performance. To learn more, go to baumeyercoaching.com, b a u m e y e r coaching.com. Today on the show we have the Chief development officer with The Landing, Mindy LeBlanc. Welcome.

Mindy LeBlanc: Hello. Thank you. Good morning.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about The Landing, how you serving folks?

Mindy LeBlanc: Yes. So we’re super excited. We have we are celebrating our 10th anniversary this year. So just starting out. We walk alongside survivors of human trafficking and commercial sexual exploitation with a trauma filled approach fueled by the love of Christ. And so we have, like I said, been around for ten years. You know, the first year we hoped people would come through our doors and we saw 60 survivors. Now that we are in our 10th year, we’re anticipating seven. We’re anticipating 700 people coming through our doors this year. So, you know, it’s one of those things that it’s unfortunate that we’re seeing that many people, but they know where to find us. And that’s the wonderful thing.

Lee Kantor: Now, for folks who aren’t familiar, can you kind of paint the landscape of human trafficking and why it’s such an important issue for people in America to know about?

Mindy LeBlanc: Absolutely. I would say we can we could even start globally first. I mean, there’s an estimated 50 million people worldwide that have been trafficked that we have recorded approximate numbers. Some of that is 22 million is forced marriage, and then 27 million is human trafficking. So break that down to the United States. And we know that trafficking is happening in all 50 states and primarily in the United States. It is sex trafficking that is reported. 75% of that would be adults and 25% are minors. So we break that down. I’m here in Texas, Houston, Texas, and we know that it’s the second largest reported cases of human trafficking in the United States. Where you are is also high reported cases in Atlanta and in the South as well. So we want to be there so people have hope, healing and a path toward stability. So this is our community and this is our. This is where we live. And we really want to be there to do something and better our community and better their lives and break generational brokenness.

Lee Kantor: So what is kind of the impetus about this? You mentioned a lot of it is sexual exploitation. Is it? People are like, why does it exist?

Mindy LeBlanc: So there’s people that have come from situations that it may be poverty. Uh, it might be that their parents, um, you know, domestic violence, um, homelessness, uh, mental health, uh, human trafficking and, um, homelessness and mental health go hand in hand. So people are vulnerable and people are looking for, um, maybe it’s, you know, that next meal or they don’t have a place to live and someone promises that, oh, I’ll take care of you. And, um, I can, I can help you with this, and it turns out to be not what they were expecting. So it could either be in the form of that sexual exploitation, or it could be the labor exploitation and where someone is working for unfair wages or for or for no wages at that, for that matter.

Lee Kantor: So now in at The Landing, this is primarily for the survivors. Uh, you run across people who were trafficked and that somehow they get to you and you’re able to help them, you know, stabilize their situation.

Mindy LeBlanc: Yes. So in Houston, um, they had done a little bit of research. Our founders ten years ago, or probably more than that and determined that Bissonnette Trackit that’s a street, a long street that goes through Houston. Um, but they determined this was one of the highest prevalence. You you’ve heard about it in our city. Um, our mayor, the cleanup. Um, I’m trying to help clean up the area we’re in, but this is a high traffic area. There were even barriers put up to try to the physical. It was like a mile plus track that cars would line up and pick up. Um, people who were being trafficked in this area. So they put these barriers up. But what we know about this is that people just go underground, and it doesn’t mean that it necessarily is solving the issue, but it’s just moving it. And there’s different ways that people are still being trafficked. Um, and so that’s why we situated ourself in the Bissonette track track, so people could get to us easily. And one of the things is it’s, you know, we, we have scrubbed sex ads and this sort of thing, but it’s primarily word of mouth, other survivors that have been in the life and that say, hey, they told their friend, you need to go to The Landing, they’ll help you out. And so the other thing is we actually have a very low barrier model at The Landing. And so you come as you are. You don’t have to do X, Y, z to qualify. We just when you come in, we do an intake with our case management workers. And to identify that you have been trafficked. A lot of these women do not have that definition in that word trafficked.

Mindy LeBlanc: They you know, we do we do the assessment. And when we do that, we identify the factors and that, yes, indeed, they have been trafficked. And so they come into our center. Um, after that assessment. And we really want to make it feel like a community. It’s their home. It’s their some, some of them own only home that they have. And so they can come in and they, there’s always food for them to get. And we are a daytime drop in center. And in Houston we’re the greater Houston area. We are the only daytime drop in center. And so they can come in and we also work with churches and businesses and organizations, and they can bring in a hot meal. And that interaction is one of the most meaningful, um, times of the week where someone is serving them, they give them choices of what to eat, but there’s nothing um, required or asked in exchange, but just kindness being shown. They can come in and rest, they can come in and, um, we have a boutique that is volunteer led and get, um, clothes hygiene items and just be served by a volunteer. And then there’s other um levels and other phases of our program where they may be ready for counseling. And we have a full time counselor that was hired in April. And so he is busy all day long. So it’s actually one of our prayers and needs is we do need a second counselor, um, to help out not only with the population who come into the drop in center, but our youth as well. Our youth do not come in to our drop in center for their safety.

Lee Kantor: So what was your backstory? How did you get involved in this work?

Mindy LeBlanc: Um, I like to say it was God. So, um, quite simply, um, I’ve been in development in Houston for more than 20 years. And funny enough, my daughter in middle school bought her theater teacher asked her to do a, um, an essay on trafficking and with another co-laborer, another organization that works on trafficking. And so I mentioned it to my daughter. She did the, the project and she was like, hey, mom, read this. I want you to, I’m going to submit it. And I’m like, wow, I didn’t know you did this. Well, the prize was for her to get to go to their gala. And then there was a cash prize as well. So then the next year, she did her GT project on trafficking. Learned a little bit more, expanded that. And then about, um, let’s call it six months later, um, I was looking for a new job and The Landing came up. I had two friends that knew about The Landing. One knew my founder, one knew the new chief development officer, Lisa Burgoyne. And gosh, two weeks later, here I am working at The Landing. So it really couldn’t be any anything else other than God’s placement.

Lee Kantor: And then your role there is to help them, uh, kind of find partners and, and build community support with donors and things like that.

Mindy LeBlanc: That is absolutely right. Um, we do receive money from United Way, the office of the governor. Um, and it’s crucial there’s a, in Texas, there’s a lot of trafficking efforts and the governor has supported, um, those. And so we’ve been very fortunate to receive money from them. We’re expanding our reach into local foundations, family foundations in the Houston area, as well as just our partners anytime we go anywhere. I mentioned The Landing. I start talking about the impact because every day I walk 20ft out of my office and you know, I’m talking to survivors. I’m talking to people. Hey, can I hug you? What’s going on? And so it’s really beautiful, but you can’t help but be surrounded by it. So it’s very easy to tell the stories. Um, you know, either from our program, um, staff that are, that are telling us what they’ve seen that day or just to witness it yourself.

Lee Kantor: So if you were talking to a business leader in your area, like what’s kind of your pitch to them of why it’s important for them to get involved and support The Landing?

Mindy LeBlanc: Absolutely. Well, this is our community. This is where we live. And if we want to truly help people, this is what you know, God’s called us to do is help the vulnerable. But if we want to make our city, our state, our country, a better place to live than it’s going to take all of us joining hands together to do this work. And so I think it’s very important for people to have the education around it. And I think a lot of times we see misconceptions of what trafficking is. Um, you know, the media has, there’s a lot of movies out there that have shown it as kidnaping and it’s really like less than zero point, like 1 or 0.2% of, of that. And it’s a lot different from what, what the movies. And so I’m constantly talking to moms and, and correcting those misconceptions as well, how it happens, where it happens, that sort of thing.

Lee Kantor: So, um, that’s funny that you mentioned kidnaping as how people picture this is what’s going on. There’s a bunch of kidnapers. Um, what is the reality of that? What are some of the other myths you want to bust about that.

Mindy LeBlanc: And that it doesn’t happen to men. I think a lot of men and men and boys, a lot of times their shame masculinity comes into play. And and it’s happening now online. And so that that the, the guy and I would say teenage boys and girls are not immune to it, but they are more likely to do the gaming. And so they get on these games and, and they start chatting with someone and it’s innocent at first and they say some nice things to them, and then they try to lure them offline or lure them off of the game, and they start building their trust and they start like, hey, if you’ll do this, um, promising gifts and then trying to get them to meet. And so I think that right there, the whole where it happens, how it happens, it doesn’t happen to men. The grooming is something as a teenager, as a mom that has a teenager that I would absolutely want people to understand that this is a process where a predator gradually gains the person’s trust and then with the intent to exploit them.

Lee Kantor: You mentioned that. So those are, um, big misconceptions. Are they from a do you have any idea from a numbers standpoint, how many like what percentage of trafficking is sexual exploitation and how much is kind of labor exploitation?

Mindy LeBlanc: Yes. Well, in the United States, most of it is sex trafficking. But this is a kind of a good segue. And it may take us off into another place, but we have this major sporting event coming up and in the summer, the World Cup. And I know in Houston, I know that I’ve heard conversations does Atlanta everywhere that, um, all the major sites are going to, um, the 16 host cities, um, are going to, um, you know, need to be aware of this. And so things have been put in place. Preventative measures. And so one of the things though, that we geared up here in Houston, um, back in 2017 for the Super Bowl is that we thought it was going to be more sexual exploitation because that’s what we do see more often in the United States. However, it tends to be labor trafficking. And let me give you an example of what that looks like, because I could sit here and, you know, tell you it’s people, um, working for unfair wages, but we had someone come into our center and this, we heard about this. Um, and it was shortly after we started, um, back last summer and a lady was, hey, we’re going to take you to these NFL football games. You’re going to get on a bus and you’re going to get to see the games. We’re taking you to Dallas and then New Orleans and then back to Houston. But what was happening is they were working concessions in the parking lots and they were working, um, you know, 15, 18 hour days with little food, water, no pay. But they were getting to stay somewhere really, really nice. And so that was like, well, it’s better than being on the streets.

Mindy LeBlanc: So that is not something people would think of as trafficking. But we do see an increase, um, when these sporting events come. We have people coming from different countries. Um, in there are 8 billion people worldwide, uh, 5 billion watched the 2022 World Cup in Qatar. So you can see that there’s, there’s economic reason Houston alone is expecting half a million people to come, um, come to our city. And that looks like about $1 billion of economic impact. So take those other cities to Dallas is the same thing. They’re expecting more like 1.5 to 2 million people to visit their city, with about 11. $5 million of economic economic impact. So this is like a big business as well. And so educating people as to what this looks like is very important. I’m so proud of all the different organizations that here in Houston, across the country have been collaborating. Um, one that um, is well known is A21. They’ve put out an excellent video to just educate people on trafficking. But what also is happening, um, in terms of the World Cup, Atlanta is, has eight matches that will be featured in mid-June to early July. Um, as we build up to that, that final. So I think it’s super important that anytime that there are these big sporting events that we’re, um, hyper vigilant and that I know when you go into our stadium, they have signs on the back of the, um, bathroom stalls. And so where to call, who detects what to do if you think you’re being trafficked or you think you may have seen someone as well.

Lee Kantor: Now, when, when you look back over your work there at The Landing, is there any story you can share. Um, well, let’s take it in a few different ways. Like first, the impact that, you know, The Landing has made with some of these survivors that you that come into the center for help. Can you talk about don’t obviously don’t name them, but maybe share how, um, they came in and you were able to help them get maybe on their feet or get to a new level?

Mindy LeBlanc: Absolutely. So like I was saying earlier, we have like different levels. Some people come in right where they are. They’re, they’re experiencing homelessness still, uh, food insecurity, mental health, um, crisis. Um, and many of them may still be, you know, using different substances. And so, um, when we see people, the goal is to, um, have someone become stable, to have a stable place to live. Um, and we have a program, it’s kind of our phase three. So people who have been coming to us that are really trying to get on their feet and establish independence, and we want to empower them to do that. So there is a program that people enter interview for, and we have three cohorts a year. And so it’s called empowerment. And they go through this ten week, two day a week program and they get financial literacy, job readiness. Um, you know, just how, how to interact in a job interview, all of this. And when they graduate from that program, we hold a big graduation ceremony. We’ve actually got one a week from tomorrow, um, at our office and their families come. And so this is what makes it so real is these are real people that are walking through really hard places, but we celebrate them. And some of these people, it’s the biggest thing they’ve ever accomplished in their entire life is coming somewhere for ten weeks, two days a week and completing this program.

Mindy LeBlanc: They wear cap and gowns. They have. We have a valedictorian. They get to make a speech. But then we want to also stand in that gap and and say, hey, you can come back to The Landing. Like, and we do our graduates come back because this is their community. This is where their family and this is their, their second home. And so the graduation program is one of the most successful. And we’re continuing to try to think of ways how we can support them. So it’s not, you know, you graduate and okay, now what’s next to really keep them on the right track? Um, we do, if you look at our logo, we’ve got this, this circle and it’s the stages of change model. And this is true of anything, but with trafficking, sometimes it takes people seven times of going back before they’re able to break that cycle. And so we want to be there for them. And these these women are fantastic. They just need the chance. They need someone to believe in them and to get those job skills. I mean, some of them come in without IDs. And what we don’t think about is when you don’t have an ID, you can’t get an apartment, you can’t get a job, you can’t.

Mindy LeBlanc: There’s so many what you can’t do and it’s not because, um, they didn’t have one. It’s been taken by their trafficker. So we get their, um, records and their official documents in order to help them, uh, be able to break down that barrier as well. So I just in my head right now, I’m talking about graduation and empowerment. And I am, I’m seeing women’s faces in my mind and I’m, I’m experiencing the smiles. There’s tears because it’s so emotional. Um, but these, you know, I just think about my daily life. I think I was a teacher many, many years ago. And I think about what, what if one of my parents had been going through this and I didn’t know. And I see, well, we don’t have youth in our center. Our youth advocates staff go out to meet the youth. Sometimes small children, because the moms are not going to leave their children. Um, on the street or by themselves. So we’ll have small children. And I go, my goodness. You know, just sometimes we don’t know what someone else is experiencing until we walked in their shoes or at least seen their shoes.

Lee Kantor: Now we talked about the impact for the the survivors. Can you talk about the impact for the donors or the business community that you work with that are funding some of this? Have you gotten a chance to kind of talk to them to, um, see what they’re getting out of it and why it’s important for them to be part of The Landing and to help the community in this manner. Um.

Mindy LeBlanc: Well, I think one of the things is we have, um, one of the things I think about is we have so many donors who are volunteers as well, and they come in and they work alongside of survivors, whether it’s the boutique and maybe it’s the church partners who come in and get to see firsthand, um, and serve them, serve them the meals. We have, uh, companies throughout Houston. Um, you know, the big five accounting firms. I’m thinking of one right now. We’ve got law firms that make snack packs. And so when they go back out on the street, they’ve got something to eat. So they’re getting to do something that directly impacts. Maybe it’s the Thanksgiving meal boxes, um, that we provide. And perhaps it’s the gifts at Christmas time, um, not just for the survivors, but for their children that we’re able to do, but we’re seeing direct impact. And I think I heard several months ago that the, the term human trafficking has only been around since 2004. So when people really start to learn what is going on and understand, um, how this affects people, It totally changes your view. But this is this is what we’re called to do is, is to to give back when when people start to hear, when we get to tell the stories, those donors they want to give, they want to be able to do something. We have one donor. We’re, um, we’re packed. We’re busting at the seams in our office right now. And it’s not our, our physical staff spaces. We’ve got 3 to 4 to an office, but it’s the client spaces. So we’re about to expand. And this is, this could be a band aid expansion.

Mindy LeBlanc: And then we’re looking for ten years down the line, but we’re talking about real life change. Um, already in ten years, we’ve been able to serve 2700 survivors. That’s 154 moments of care. So those are real people that are it’s breaking generations. So hopefully and that’s all we have. This youth program as well, is that we see the high risk. And we can help them Before we get that upstream of the river, we can get to them before they have to experience this and we can break the cycles for them. But people love to hear what we’re doing at The Landing, and we have some of the most committed people, but that’s that’s what we need. We really need more of these corporations. We’ve got, you know, we’re like oil and gas company, uh, capital of, of, uh, the United States. And we’ve got so many opportunities for people to partner. Um, there’s one organization that, um, called truckers against trafficking. So these oil and gas companies, um, have these trucks that go, you know, along I-10 or whatnot. But there’s ways for these companies to make a huge difference because the oil rig workers, the people who come back in from the port and, and they’re like, well, you know, I’ve got money. Um, what can I go do? Oh, I could go to a, you know, one of these massage parlors, one of these different, clubs or whatnot. And so we really want to educate and, and show dignity to the survivors and that they’re, they’re people and, um, just let people understand what trafficking truly is and change our whole community.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to get involved, uh, what can they do? Um, is there a website? What’s the best way to connect?

Mindy LeBlanc: Yes, absolutely. The Landings, we have a give button at the very top. Um, there’s also, um, opportunities that talk about ways you can volunteer. I would love to have a personal conversation because I think there’s different opportunities that are meaningful to different people. We go out into the community, whether it’s churches, its businesses, schools, colleges and do h t 101. So we train people and educate people, um, as well, but we would love to have that conversation. We have tours when our center isn’t open either first thing in the morning or late in the afternoon. And on Fridays we give tours. And it’s one of the best ways to understand what is happening at The Landing. Um, between the to see the physical spaces and to see how people can get involved. And that right there. Um, it’s so fun. It’s, it’s amazing to get to have that opportunity to share, um, our community, our home with them. But yes, we need money. We’re growing, we’re expanding and we just can’t wait to see where God takes us. But it does take money to keep the lights on and, um, to, to have more, another counselor to help the youth, to help families and to, um, just expand our services. Um, because mental health is real, homelessness is real. There’s not enough beds in the city. And so that’s something that we’re constantly working with our partner organizations to, um, to try to find places for people to stay.

Lee Kantor: If you were giving advice to a business in order to show them, okay, this is here’s a tangible way that you can partner with The Landing. How would you help them? Kind of, how would you explain to them how they could build a team building up opportunity with The Landing or a way that they can kind of walk the walk? You know, a lot of companies say that, hey, we support the community, we’re here in town and we want to support the town that’s serving us so much. How would you explain to them a way that tangibly they can say to their employees, hey, look, this is what we’re doing to show that we are part of the community. This is the activity, this this is talking about our why, why we’re here and why we do the work we do is to serve the community, and we work with The Landing in this way that actually demonstrates that it’s not just lip service.

Mindy LeBlanc: Absolutely. Well, I would be more than thrilled to come out and speak to any of these corporations, any of these companies, and educate them. And then at the same time, we could do this service project where we’re making snack packs or hygiene bags to give to our clients. So they get to do that, that volunteerism is so important to, to companies, you know, having the opportunity to wear their company shirt. Sure. So, um, you know, take pictures and be able to see, look at what we’re doing, educate and then also bring, bring people into our center for tours. It is the absolute. When someone comes in for a tour, they are hooked. But then the other thing that we really do need is that corporate support. And so, um, we know these companies have the money to attend our events. Um, we have a spring event on April 19th, for example, and that’s a fundraiser. We also have our gala in September, Um, at a major hotel hotel Zaza. And it is going to be fantastic, but they’re the ones who can really make a difference and help us accomplish the goals we need to. So we can really provide hope, healing, restoration and stability for survivors.

Lee Kantor: Well, Mindy, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Mindy LeBlanc: Thank you, Lee, for having me. I really appreciate it.

Lee Kantor: And the website one more time is The Landing t h e l a n d i n g.org to learn more.

Mindy LeBlanc: Yes. Thank you.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Inside the Business Sale: Valuation, Exit Planning, and Market Trends with Gregory Kovsky

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Inside the Business Sale: Valuation, Exit Planning, and Market Trends with Gregory Kovsky
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee speaks with Gregory Kovsky, President and CEO of International Business Associates, shares insights from over three decades of helping entrepreneurs sell their companies. He explains how business brokerage works, why accurate valuation and preparation are critical, and what factors influence successful deals. Kovsky also highlights current opportunities in the market, the role of AI and economic shifts in entrepreneurship, and practical advice for business owners planning their exit.

Gregory Kovsky is the President & CEO of International Business Associates (IBA), the Pacific Northwest’s oldest and largest business brokerage firm, established in 1975.

With over 30 years of experience as a mergers & acquisitions intermediary, he has personally facilitated over 300 transactions involving privately held companies and family businesses across multiple states. His expertise spans manufacturing, distribution, technology, marine, automotive, and service industries, with transactions typically ranging from $1-30 million in enterprise value.

As both a seasoned entrepreneur and business sale expert, he purchased IBA in 2000 and has grown it into a regional leader with 10 offices across Washington and Oregon, completing over 4,400 transactions in the company’s 50-year history. He combines his deep transactional experience with comprehensive real estate expertise, holding broker licenses for over 30 years.

He is also a published author, seminar speaker, and advocate for entrepreneurship, operating on a unique work-life balance philosophy of working 45 weeks per year while maintaining a family-first approach to business.

Connect with Gregory on LinkedIn and Facebook.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • How business brokerage firms help owners sell privately held companies
  • The key factors that determine a business’s true market value
  • Why most businesses fail to sell—and how to avoid those mistakes
  • The step-by-step process of selling a business and negotiating deals
  • How financing, attorneys, and due diligence influence transactions
  • Practical steps owners should take to prepare for a successful exit
  • Current market trends creating opportunities for entrepreneurs
  • Real stories of founders turning small startups into valuable businesses

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have the president and CEO with the Pacific Northwest premier Business Brokerage Firm since 1975, International Business Associates, we have Gregory Kovsky. Welcome.

Gregory Kovsky: Thank you. It’s an honor to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn about your practice. Tell us about IBA. How are you serving folks?

Gregory Kovsky: Certainly, as you mentioned, IBA is the oldest and largest business brokerage firm in the Pacific Northwest. We’ve been in business since 1975, ten offices throughout Oregon and Washington. We serve the seller side of transactions and try to facilitate sales of privately held companies, family owned businesses with knowledge, experience, skill, best practices and integrity.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Gregory Kovsky: Great question. So my family was a customer of IBA before I joined the firm. My father was a veterinarian in Portland, Oregon, and in the 1980s, he decided he didn’t want to be a practicing veterinarian anymore. He wanted more control of his life. He was frustrated. If he needed to do an emergency caesarean section, delivering puppies, which is a real thing, or a dog gets hit by a car and it would disrupt his life. So he hired IBA to sell his veterinary hospital in real estate. He was impressed with them in the sale, went on and worked for Hill’s pet products science, diet. Dog food. Teaching pet nutrition before it was a thing nationwide. So he still was a veterinarian, but not having his life influenced by the unforeseen occurring. And I left the northwest, went to the University of Texas down in Austin, studied investment finance and accounting, pursued my first career, and it took me to Kansas City. And I was sitting in Kansas City and had an epiphany moment where I missed the mountains and oceans of the Pacific Northwest and decided I didn’t want to build my life in the Midwest and so returned to the northwest. Didn’t know what I wanted to do as the next chapter. And my father said, I think you’d be good at selling businesses.

Gregory Kovsky: You’re a salesman by personality. You’ve got the accounting and finance background academically. Let me introduce you to the founder of the firm, Bill Osofsky. So I met with him. It intrigued me. I joined had very strong success in two industries that do not even exist today. When you talk about the speed of entrepreneurship, one beating travel agencies, before Expedia, they used to be big chains and the other ISPs, the old dial up internet service providers. And they used to be five 10,000 user networks where today it’s your cell phone company or Comcast or limited providers. And that was a classic big fish eating small fish marketplace. And in 2000, the founder came to me said, I want to retire and I’d like to sell you the company. I was already managing the Bellevue office for IBA, which is our Washington State head of the pyramid. And I was a bit of a logical choice. We had an old guard of brokers, many approaching retirement, some with kids in college, and he didn’t want to disrupt the team he had built and they had mentored me. They liked me. I was endorsed internally, took over the helm in And 26 years later, I’m still running the show.

Lee Kantor: So now what is kind of a day in the life look like for you?

Gregory Kovsky: Well, as the executive head of IBA, about 70% of my time is spent executive management, financial management, marketing management, online technology oversight, um, and then sales management and my 20 M&A intermediaries spread throughout the region doing transactions. And then I still like to lace up the boots and get on the pitch. And so about 30% of my time is still doing transactions. I’ve personally done over 300 transactions, including 2 in 2026.

Lee Kantor: So do you specialize in any industry or is this kind of industry agnostic? Your work.

Gregory Kovsky: Ida, actually serves 20 different industry sectors. We are well known in construction, manufacturing, technology. Education, hospitality, a broad spectrum of industries. Personally, I like the old economy. I do a fair amount of industrial manufacturing type companies myself. That’s that’s my favorite pond to swim in.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re selling your business or most of the business you sell, do they have kind of like a real estate component or an equipment component? Or can they be like service industry where it’s more kind of along the lines of your father with, you know, there may not be a lot of stuff, but there’s a lot of happy clients.

Gregory Kovsky: Excellent question. So every one of my brokers is licensed to sell real estate in one or more states. So we are a little bit unique as a mergers and acquisition firm in that we do have the ability to sell both the business and real estate asset classes in one representation package. I would say about 25% of our deals will have real estate involved, but the remainder will generally have leases. And in Washington and Oregon, you need to have a real estate license to negotiate or assign facility leases. So it’s it’s one of the many domains we bring expertise in. Um, we do sell virtual companies, SaaS platforms, education platforms. One of the education platforms we sold was actually based in New York and was an equivalent to Khan Academy, providing education for school districts to supplement what was occurring in the classroom. And they hired us because we’re at the 50 yard line in terms of technology. Being in Seattle with Microsoft and Amazon in Portland with Intel. So we know the technology space very well and have the ability to properly value create a marketplace and sell technology and other service type businesses that don’t have the substantial assets, though. You know, on the other side, we just sold an aerospace manufacturing company that had the Navy and had Boeing as customers. And in that case, the equipment infrastructure was quite large.

Lee Kantor: So what, um, when you’re dealing with a business owner, I’m sure that some of it, if not a lot of it is kind of emotional. They might have an idea of the value of their business based on look, I’ve lived it for 30 years. Um, how do you have that valuation conversation with them? Because I would imagine a lot of the times you’re going to give them a number that is not the number they have in their head.

Gregory Kovsky: 100% true. So we are very good at valuation. We generally sell our companies for within 10% of where we went to market. And it can be plus or minus minus because we will try for the high end of the range for our clients. Plus, because we often create competitive market dynamics, which will take the price higher based on supply and demand issues. We work on a business model that’s 100% paid on performance at IBA. So no matter if a business sells for six, 7 or 8 figures, we don’t charge our clients a penny until they get paid and the transaction closes. So we have a vested interest in being honest with them because we do this full time for a living. We’ve sold as a firm over 4400 companies. We get paid on performance, so we have an incentive to get the maximum value possible. But we actually reject two out of three companies that come to us because if they’re not realistic on value, we will work on other projects. I would rather go with my wife and two dogs on a walk, rather than work on a project that doesn’t sell. But to finish on your question, which was a very good one, part of our education is who we need to sell the price to. We start selling it to the buyer.

Gregory Kovsky: They are actually the easiest. They’ve got emotion. They’re mentally engaged. Then they hand off the package to their CPA or CFO. That individual is not emotional, but we need to get a thumbs up from them that they endorse the purchase for their client. Then it gets handed off to the attorney, and the attorney is not as focused on dollars as in liability mitigation. So we gotta convince the buyer of the business and their legal counsel that the risk is acceptable for the price. If we’re selling a manufacturer of pacemakers, that’s a high risk liability. If they have product defects, people die. So that’s a big legal issue. If we’re selling a chain of eight Arby’s, which I have done, what is the real damage risk? A bad sandwich, they come back and you give them another sandwich. So liability issues in fast food are not nearly the same. So we got to sell it to the attorneys. And then finally there’s an old saying. He who has the gold makes the rules. We’ve got to sell it to the bank or investors. And they’re looking at their return on investment and the safety of their investment. So it’s a multiple step sale process. And personally, I’m never going to start a process. I don’t think I can win.

Lee Kantor: So now what percentage of businesses and business owners actually exit with a sale? Is it is it 100 for 100 or is it a much lower number?

Gregory Kovsky: Well, for us it’s usually 80 to 90% of our engagements end in a sale. Nationally, it’s only 15 one 5% of businesses that sell. And let me talk about both of those briefly. So why are businesses not selling nationally? First thing is they’re failing business models. People have put their life savings into starting up a business. They never get to critical velocity and they’re trying to find a successor. But if it’s failing, there’s not a lot of buyers. Secondly is they are unrealistic on value. It can’t get financed by saying SBA loan. Third, there are so many moving pieces in a sale. They don’t know what they’re doing. Be it a business broker who’s out of their industry expertise, size, expertise, element in terms of knowledge and experience and skill. Who may give the college try but isn’t able to end in victory. On the IBA side, why we fail is usually one of three elements. Either our client or the buyer are not negotiating in good faith, and we deliver five offers to our client, and they always find something wrong with the potential buyer, or a buyer gets inside the business and determines something that we didn’t know about it. The seller hasn’t disclosed a material fact that should have been known, and the deal fails, or attorneys end up creating confrontation and selling fear and cooler heads don’t prevail. By the entrepreneurs to get the deal done so those can kill transactions as well as something changes in the business model. And let’s say they had a big customer who was 30% of their sales and they lose that customer. Well, now that business is a lot less attractive on the market.

Lee Kantor: Now when a sale occurs, is it typically okay, here’s a check for the amount we discussed or is this something that’s um, I’m going to pay you over time?

Gregory Kovsky: Great question. So there are multiple components that can go in business sales every seller always wants as much cash as they can in a transaction. And we frequently get to all cash transactions. I one of the transactions, I closed a industrial distribution company that closed March 31st was an all cash transaction. So those do occur. But you have to ask, why do buyers want seller financing or an escrow holdback. And usually it gets back to this issue of liability. So if something comes out of the woodwork that wasn’t disclosed in the seller’s disappeared to the Cook Islands and is unavailable to respond. If you had a seller note or you had an escrow holdback if there is Manufacture defects, warranty issues, and an Hvac company where you need to go back and do repairs on installations. The seller was paid for, but the buyer needs to maintain the reputation of the company and wants to satisfy that customer and not have negative Google reviews and other detrimental things to the business they just bought. If the seller doesn’t own what is reasonable from their time at the helm on the ship, it is a logical approach to have the seller have a vested interest in a smooth transition and tying off loose ends, that they’re not going to compete with them post-sale. That if they say they’re going to work six months on a transition of ownership, that they’re not gone three days after the sale fishing and not supportive. So that is often why you have an escrow holdback or a promissory note. You also can have a variable piece where it’s called an earnout or retained equity, where maybe there’s customer concentration, as I mentioned before.

Gregory Kovsky: And the seller says, we’ve been doing business with this customer for 20 years. Yes, they’re 30% of our sales, but they need us. They’re not going anywhere else. And the buyer says, I believe you. So you reach an agreement where based on that retention of that customer, there’s a variable piece of the sale that will be paid after a year or two based on their retention. Or maybe a business is growing on a hockey stick, or is just had an off year and we need to normalize revenue because the buyer really cares about what it does after the sale, not what it did before the sale. And so you may put a plug number in saying, as long as this business does 7 million in revenue, we’re all good on the price. But if it does 8 million, I will pay you more. And if it does 6 million, there will be a discount that occurs in a variable piece. Can account for that. Finally, sometimes we’re building collaborative projects where a private equity firm will buy a company. The seller will retain an equity position, maybe even stay on as the president and CEO and knows that another transaction will occur 3 to 7 years on the horizon. And the second bite of the apple can be greater than the first, because maybe we sold it with a four multiple and because it now sells as a bigger entity with stronger EBITDA. It sells at a six multiple. So they grow with the company and get a second paycheck.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there any advice you could give? Say somebody who owns a service business, what should they be doing in order to exit? Um, effectively? And how soon should they be planning for their exit? And I know a lot of people say you should be planning right when you started, but if they’re in their situation right now, what is kind of a window to prepare and what are some of those kind of things they should be doing today to get the best exit for themselves in a few years?

Gregory Kovsky: We are coming up on Tax Day, April 15th, and the single most important document in a business sale is the tax return. So you want to have a transparent tax return for the year prior to your sale. So stop running personal expenses through that. Um, do what’s necessary to detail out the car. So its performance is at its highest level. The year after that tax return when you sell. So the first thing is just get your financial house in order. And now is actually a good time to do that because you have runway on 2026. The next thing is work on your business, not in your business. The more layered management you have, the better. If you can go on vacation in, the business will continue to run well. If you can lose one of your engineers or a key salesman in the business continues on without issue. Those add value. And I always say treat it also like you’re running the last two miles of a marathon kick. Make it perform as high as you can because growth will increase your value and make the business look more attractive on the market. Decline will hurt you in valuation because buyers often play Chicken Little, and if you’re down 5% this year, they’ll extrapolate out is it going to be 10% next year where if you’re growing 5%, they may not believe it can do more than 5%, but you have documented proof that even in present economic conditions, the business is thriving.

Lee Kantor: Now, when, um, you’re working with some the wide variety of people you’ve worked with in the past, is there a story you can share about a successful sale that may be exceeded the expectations of the person who sold and maybe was rewarding for you in your career?

Gregory Kovsky: Certainly I’ve had numerous sales. As I said, I’ve done over 300. And to me, honestly, the most basic joy I get in my team gets on every sale is that you are helping people monetize their efforts that resulted in them living the American Dream and creating something, building something, and then being able to exit. You can’t sell a job. You can sell a business. Um, one of the recent sales I did that closed in January, which was very rewarding for me was a company that fabricated countertops. They fabricated them out of granite, quartz, other products, marble. And they had started as two brothers in essentially a garage installing countertops for other people. Then they started their own shop in the back of another business, um, with a rail saw, um, fabricating their own and grew to a company that was doing approximately eight figures in revenue with automated state of the art equipment. Um, an installation team that was second to none. A beautiful showroom. And they had lived the American dream as first generation immigrants who came here with nothing and through hard work, through pursuit of excellence, Achieved a level of success that, frankly, is not available in many other countries in the world.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, that must have been pretty rewarding. Um, when that closed.

Gregory Kovsky: It was I mean, it was just wonderful people. I make many friends through transactions. I love their stories, the ingenuity of different business owners. Another very memorable, rewarding story which resulted in a friendship was a lady named Anne Bailey, who. Was an environmental chemistry professor who decided she wanted to be entrepreneurial and. So she created a company that audited environmental chemistry data. So organizations like NOAA, before they would publish a study, would hand over the data almost like a to a CPA to verify the data. This is a service company, like you talked about, with just some computers and desks and a team of scientists who would review the data and then endorse it before it was published. And interestingly, in that industry, there were firms like this that represented the corporate side and ones that represented more government pseudo government. And this is a few years back, but I was talking to her at length about The, um, the deep horizon spill in the Gulf of Mexico and how she would do studies on the impact of that spill on fish, shrimp, birds, the environment and how the oil companies would publish their own reports saying this is an organic material with limited negative impact. So it was an interesting service company, and it was a wonderful situation of someone taking their unique knowledge, experience and skill and creating a private sector opportunity that was highly valued.

Lee Kantor: Are there certain industries right now or niches that are are like hot, or is there a trendy kind of, um, opportunity now for an entrepreneur out there. I know that periodically, um, some private equity firms start rolling up, like you mentioned, some smaller entities. Is there something like that going on that, um, our listeners might be able to take advantage of and maybe consider selling, you know, now because you’re, you’re kind of hitting while the iron’s hot.

Gregory Kovsky: Well, first I’ll start by saying this is perhaps the most robust buyer market that I’ve seen in 32 years. There is a deep, deep pond of buyers for sellers to engage with, ranging from private equity to people being laid off in the tech industry who are problem solving through that experience, by acquiring businesses. So I think one of the big opportunities that exist right now is to take businesses and apply benefits of AI and technology to take them to the next level. Um, people look at the layoff of computer programmers and it, it’s horrible. If you were at a tech company and got laid off. But on the other side, I think kind of like website developers, those computer programmers are now going to be available using AI tools to smaller and smaller businesses who then can create custom solutions to take advantage of where the economy is going. And I’ll give you an example. I listened recently to a speech by one of the founders of Service Titan. And Service Titan is the dominant project management software in the service trade. So plumbing, electrical, Hvac, and he was talking about how they are bringing AI tools to their customers. So if you’re replacing a furnace in a development that was built 20 years ago, now you have the ability to market to all of those people in that neighborhood who may be coming up with furnace replacements. And then with AI, look at what other developments were done by that builder in the same era in your service area, knowing that the lifespan of the furnaces they put in, which are builder grade. We also see it with roofing, have a shorter lifespan than the reroof someone would put on themselves because they don’t want to have to replace it in 1015 years.

Lee Kantor: Man, it’s, uh, it’s a lot of times when you have kind of this kind of economic chaos, it really does open up opportunities for people. Um, it doesn’t have to be like a woe is me situation. It could be a great opportunity for folks who want to go that entrepreneurial path.

Gregory Kovsky: Now, 100%. And I also say watch trends. I actually watch my kids to understand younger trends. And one that I observed is when they were very young, ice cream was popular as a frozen dessert. Then we went through a stage where they loved the frozen yogurt with toppings the mint cheese, yogurt, land chains, and they had no interest in, like, the Baskin-Robbins offering. Then it has cycled back, at least in the northwest, to more premium ice cream brands like Salt and Straw and Molly Moon’s and those type of products in this region and where the herd goes. Come the entrepreneurial opportunity. One thing we’re seeing right now is a proliferation of chicken places, be it Raising Cane’s or Dave’s hot chicken. And kind of a gravitation away from burgers, partly because it is more expensive right now is a product. Well, I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to guess that the Empire will strike back in, you know, in 2030. It won’t be chicken sandwiches. It’ll be burgers again.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Um, history doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes.

Gregory Kovsky: Yeah, exactly. So I, I love those type of trends. And if you’re an early adopter of those trends, you can do very well as an entrepreneur. Just be buying as observant. As I said, my kids are now 20 and 23, but I use them as my test. Where did they want to eat? What products were they buying? You know, no, none of their peers have any other, um, phone than an apple. I makes me recognize that. You know, when I look at AI and I tend to think about things. The secret of AI may very well be who people are engaging with as a platform from their Apple devices. It may not be the best product. It may be the gateway to AI.

Lee Kantor: So, Gregory, if somebody wants to learn more and connect with you or somebody on the team, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Gregory Kovsky: Thank you. Um, best way to reach me is through our website, which is i b a i n c.com. So IBA INC icecream boy apple ice cream nancy charlie.com. Um, you can call me at our corporate headquarters at (425) 454-3052. And we’re advocates and resources for entrepreneurs. I would encourage people to look at our blog. It’s published twice a week and has had over 200 authors covering a variety of subjects. This week, one of the articles published was by one of my brokers, who specializes in the sale of hair salons, spas, nail studios, etc. so there’s a lot of information there about buying and selling businesses and specific industries.

Lee Kantor: Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Gregory Kovsky: Thank you very much. It’s been an honor and a pleasure.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Turning Website Traffic into Jobs: The Power of Online Estimates for Contractors

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Franchise Marketing Radio
Franchise Marketing Radio
Turning Website Traffic into Jobs: The Power of Online Estimates for Contractors
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In this episode of Franchise Marketing Radio, Lee interviews Scott Ossim of Contractor Commerce. Scott discusses how e-commerce tools are transforming the home services industry. He explains how instant online estimates and transparent pricing help contractors and franchise systems generate higher-quality leads, improve customer trust, and convert website traffic into real jobs while still allowing pricing to be customized for local markets.

Scott Ossim, Enteprise Account Executive of Contractor Commerce.

Contractor Commerce helps residential HVAC and plumbing contractors grow sales and profits with an AI-powered, plug-and-play online store installed directly on their company website.

Transform your website into a money-making machine. Quick and easy configuration. World-class coaching from our team of experts. Sell filters, maintenance plans, and drive leads for fully-installed systems

Follow Contractor Commerce on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • The growing importance of transparent pricing and instant online estimates in the home services industry
  • How contractors can transform their websites into active sales and lead-generation platforms
  • The role of e-commerce tools in trades businesses, from service booking to online purchases
  • How franchise systems can maintain brand consistency while allowing local pricing flexibility
  • The impact of online pricing visibility on customer trust and buying decisions
  • How online estimates help businesses capture high-intent leads and increase conversion rates
  • The influence of AI and evolving search behavior on how customers find and compare service providers
  • Strategies for extending customer relationships through memberships, maintenance plans, and recurring services
  • Best practices for contractors and franchisors to maximize website traffic and digital engagement

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Coming to you live from the Business RadioX studio. It’s Franchise Marketing Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of Franchise Marketing Radio. And this is going to be a good one. Today on this show we have enterprise account executive with Contractor Commerce. Scott Ossim. Welcome.

Scott Ossim: Hello. Thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to tell us about Contractor Commerce, How you serving folks?

Scott Ossim: So Contractor Commerce is the leading e-commerce platform for the trades. And what we mean by e-commerce is basically anytime somebody wants to shop or buy online. So in home services, that’s obviously been a hot button issue for many years. How far can we really take people down that path towards buying? But we have ways for people to get instant estimates on their furnace system, on a new water heater and for smaller items like a filter or just a service call, we can actually process that entirely and then have people go through. So it’s a way to use your website as more than just a billboard or a phone number, but a chance for people to really interact with your business and get to know your offering a bit better.

Lee Kantor: So what was the genesis of the idea had this thing get started?

Scott Ossim: Yeah, that’s a great question. So it comes from a team of folks who have really been in the trades since the since the mid 1950s as an Hvac contracting unit, and they owned Hvac for a few years throughout the 20 tens. And it was through that experience really of, of Hvac that they were seeing no matter what, what they put up, it was always pricing that people were interested in. So contractors were hesitant to give that pricing. But no matter what went on to that Hvac site, it was always just people looking for pricing. And so we figured instead of relying on aggregators, you know, the Angie’s List. The home advisors of the world. We wanted to create something to really put the contractor in control of that themselves and have the platform be controlled at a brand level.

Lee Kantor: So speaking of brand level, how would a franchisor that’s in the trades or working with franchisees that are actually out there working in the trades, in the local markets? How would this help those franchisors?

Scott Ossim: So I think one big element to it is just creating a consistency of that offer amongst all of the different franchise locations. You know, I know that we like to keep people independent and making decisions on their own. But as much as that, that expectation can be standardized across the board, you know, we can really create a cohesive message and then also just use the branding as a whole to really create a cohesive platform wide discussion around, around pricing. And then on top of that, it’s just the way to get more leads. It’s the way to use your website to get people through at a higher rate. So the individual locations are thriving off of that best practice. And the franchise as a whole really benefits from that unity and from having that concise voice that they’re able to take to market that we are easy to do business with online.

Lee Kantor: So if you were building from scratch, if you were a franchisor, that the franchise was going into people’s homes and helping in some service oriented way, how would you kind of build out the platform so that, you know, you’re able to leverage the brand, but you’re also able to help that local market franchisee kind of leverage the benefits of the local market searches that are taking place.

Scott Ossim: So it’s a great question, and I would I’ll kind of answer it in reverse here. One thing that we would do is when we’re actually out into the home, use this e-commerce platform as a way to really keep people engaged, you know, in the trades, we’re always looking to drive that customer lifetime value, keep people around a little bit longer. So getting people set up with things like maintenance agreements or continuously shipped supplies, really starting to build that customer base after the fact. You know, making sure that we’re able to keep providing value for them in time and getting value from them, uh, upfront. And then also when it comes to the quotes and really that initial side of things, making sure that we’re winning the traffic in the area and what people are really searching for in the area. But instead of just your normal SEO where we’re just trying to get clicks and get attention, this is part of really focusing on the kind of attention you’re getting and the kind of clicks that you’re getting. So instead of a franchise or just meeting with their marketing team and saying, hey, you’re up 50 visitors or whatever else it is this month, being able to really drive these high intent buyers. And when these terms in your area that are quote near me, price near me, I think it’s really interesting. Just in the past couple of months, Google has really automatically pushed people towards filtering for these options with online estimates. So making sure that not only are we driving up more traffic and enabling our marketing effort to succeed, but really being thoughtful about what that traffic is and what brought them in front of us in the first place.

Lee Kantor: So now, how would you help the kind of that franchisee that’s right now talking to the client like so they’re in front of the client, they have their tablet or phone. How would you help them kind of ring out the most value and opportunity from that type of interaction? Because those are the hardest interactions. That’s the ones they dream of.

Scott Ossim: Yeah. And ideally, by the time we get to that point where we have a tablet out and we’re on the kitchen table, one way that this is really helping is by just having that first mention of pricing be online on their terms 24 over seven on, you know, Sunday night, whenever it was convenient for them. If we’re doing that up front, then you fast forward to that moment. You’re talking about where we’re at the kitchen table and we’re looking to pitch the the bear is out of the room is probably the best way. I’ve heard one of our contractors put it, you know, taking that that big scary number and putting it out initially, it really sets the tone for the rest of that interaction. And we’re seeing people close at a faster rate, close for higher ticket prices, just because that question was addressed thoughtfully upfront. So to your end of, you know, what are what are they doing when they’re actually in the home and they have that tablet out? You know, a lot of that is their typical process. Like I said, we can follow up with those memberships or any kind of a recurring service, but really we’re looking to make that entire process easier and faster and more profitable by by starting this conversation off on the customer’s terms and really appealing to the side of them that wants to walk as far down the buying path as it makes sense to go on their own and then have that interaction with you, you know, at the kitchen table with the tablet.

Lee Kantor: So your recommendation is not to kind of duck the pricing conversation, but to address it head on as soon as it occurs.

Scott Ossim: Exactly. And really be radically transparent. And it’s what people are looking for. And it’s especially what and I don’t want to get into this too much because it’s a whole can of worms, but it’s what eyes are looking for as well. So as more and more search just becomes this zero click search, people just getting these brief answers or possibly sending an AI out to go get a few different quotes. Pricing visibility just in the past few months has gone from, you know, really helpful moves the needle for these people to you are effectively invisible. If you don’t have it, you’re effectively reindexing yourself if you don’t put that price conversation out up front. So it helps the customer, it helps make their experience better and makes that more profitable. But going into this kind of new era of search, it’s it’s table stakes. It’s an absolute requirement that they’re able to, to query your site and to get this critical information off of it.

Lee Kantor: Now, how does the brand, the franchisor, kind of protect, uh, the different franchisees in different markets? So like they can’t have a franchisor pricing, uh, because that wouldn’t make sense if they’re in New York City versus they’re in, you know, Memphis, Tennessee, just the cost of doing business is going to be radically different. So they can’t have one price for everybody. How do, how do you help them kind of modify the pricing in that hyper local manner? That is the, the way that the business typically is done.

Scott Ossim: Yeah. And that’s really what’s important in home services is that the quotes that we’re making are, you know, the contractors are comfortable taking that number and running with it. And to your point, that’s not something that we can just do across the board. So our business model has always been to get with that customer, sit down during our onboarding and really understand how it is they’re pitching in their area, what makes them competitive in their area, and being able to, to kind of use that, um, really as, as their starting point there. And when we get down to that specific kind of hyper local level, you know, we can make sure that it’s, it’s appropriate for being New York or, or rural Midwest or wherever that specific contractor might be. I’m really getting down to that, that specific brand level and making it for, for that outfit as it stands. And then on the, on the larger side of things, with the actual franchise company, we typically use that to generate marketing attention to then get people onto those individual locations, estimators where we’ve taken the part of the process that really needs to be manual and thoughtful, making sure that price book is accurate, and then kind of created everything automatically on either side of that. So it’s flowing into their service Titan, it’s flowing from their web forms and moving through the business very efficiently.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re working with your customers, are you able to kind of share kind of what the market is paying right now? Are you do you have access to kind of the data from everybody in the market so that you can help me price more accurately?

Scott Ossim: You know, it’s funny you bring that up. We are actually launching a component of our software very soon, which will quote, compare and we’ll be able to look at what the different quotes are from those different teams. Um, but ultimately, you know, making sure that we have, you know, a pricing that is competitive with other people, I hear, I hear it often that, you know, folks are a little anxious because what if my competitor sees this price? And I think the simple truth in home services, you know, I’ve, I’ve worked with companies that have a stack of other prices from their local competitors and are really dug in on that. So making sure that we have that visibility for the customer is worth every bit of visibility we might create for a competitor in that in that same market, because ultimately, it’s not just price we’re competing on, we’re competing on this initial attention and how we get it right.

Lee Kantor: But also from the customer standpoint, the customer just wants to know that they’re paying around what is normal and they’re not just getting ripped off. I mean, they want to know what the range of normal is. So they can then make an assessment of, hey, this might cost more, but I’m getting this. So I’m okay with that or this. I just want the lowest price here because I don’t care.

Scott Ossim: Absolutely. And that’s something that Google is actually automating in the last couple of months here. And this is a really interesting option that they’ve just put out where I was looking for. I’m in Bloomington, Indiana, and I typed in Hvac, quote, Bloomington, Indiana. And one of the first things that popped up on the screen was get for competitive quotes. And then I click on that and it actually shows me up to be able to reach out to those four different teams and to be able to go get a competitive quote. So like you’re saying, that’s what that’s the feeling people really want, is that they did their due diligence and that they’re getting a reasonable deal on this. So making sure that they can have an easy way to do that through Google was a priority for them. And then as it flips over to what we’re doing, you know, we’re not even getting that attention from the AI bot unless this is available on the site. I’m happy to say, you know, of the four that I was able to access here in Bloomington, uh, three of them were using online estimators that we had stood up. So it’s, it’s critical to make sure that we’re visible. And a lot of people, they want to play it close to their chest so that they don’t get into this, this bidding war between the different companies. But in the way that this is, is currently being structured, we need to price available to even be part of that conversation.

Lee Kantor: So let’s say I’m a franchisor listening right now and I’m in the trades. Uh, what are those initial conversations with you look like? What are some of the, uh, one of the questions you’re asking me, what are the questions I should be asking you in order to see if this is the right fit for my business?

Scott Ossim: That’s that’s a great question. We really place a lot of emphasis on that home service companies current web presence and how they’re doing. How much effort do they put towards this? Really, the key metric that I look at is just organic visitors to that site. And so we really like to, to get to know that company, to make sure that they’re in a spot where we’re putting something out like this is key. So, you know, first, first step is just getting to know that team, getting to know their web presence. If they’re getting, say, 500 visitors per month and they’re actively engaging with a local marketing company and they’re bringing traffic in, that’s the right time to ask the question of, what are we doing with this traffic? What are we doing with these eyeballs that are getting onto our site? So that’s, that’s really our kind of start in this is getting together with the team, getting to know how they’re pitching, specifically if they’re with their franchise group, of course, pointing out some of the other franchise locations that we’re currently working with and what success they’ve had and any programs we have with corporate. But even even when that’s the case, that’s all about getting to know that specific team and, you know, really are are they serious about their web presence and are they, you know, making moves to increase their Google business profile and to increase their organic visitorship? And really, those, you know, what we say internally is that the main kind of quantitative thing is how much attention are you getting online? How many visitors? What’s your Google ranking? And the main qualitative thing we look for is just, you know, how much do you see this as a, as a key element of your business? How much do you really care that your online presence matches your in-person presence and the professionality that you have created with your brand over the decades? So really, it’s that overall web presence. But apart from that, it’s, you know, how important is this digital marketing segment to you as a company?

Lee Kantor: Now, is your point of entry typically a franchisee or do you go right to the franchisor?

Scott Ossim: You know, that’s that’s my job within the organization. And as the enterprise account executive, some groups I work with, and it has to be completely top down and I get to know that corporate team and one other individual locations come across and look to work with us. I can say, hey, this is actually something that your, your corporate team has kind of guardrails against. Or conversely, I’ll talk with a corporate team and they’ll say, hey, we really let that individual brand maintain a lot of their control over their marketing and you can just go right to them. So it’s really a case by case basis. And honestly, I don’t see much of a trend one way or the other. It seems like maybe half are this way, half or the other. And then, you know, everything is kind of a blend between those two of if we’re working this kind of top down at that franchise level, or if we’re grassroots trying to grow this from the brand level.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share that maybe, um, either a local or a brand came to you and they started using your solution and you were able to help them get to a new level. Obviously don’t name the name of the brand, but maybe share the challenge that came to you with and how you were able to help them.

Scott Ossim: Yeah, absolutely. And I’ll kind of keep this one a little bit private, but it’s, it’s a typical story that, that we see, you know, not all the time, but it’s one of our more common kind of onboarding stories is that somebody in that group believed in, and I’ll use a specific contractor here that I have in mind, you know, somebody at that contractor really believed in the idea. And when they first brought this up, you know, they got a little bit of pushback on it, just like we got pushed back when we first started this product. I would say nowadays it’s maybe 40, 50% of the industry is on board with this concept. But that’s changed even just in the last 7 or 8 years. So oftentimes we’ll have one internal champion who really sees the competitive advantage and maybe who has seen a competitor in the area doing it and is afraid of of losing leads to them as they rightfully should be. And then they bring in the rest of their team and, you know, we convince them to, to give it a try and to, to walk down this road. And, you know, typically, like with this specific brand, I’m thinking of a couple of months later, they started really shifting some of their marketing focus towards this and to making this part of their general messaging. And nowadays, we’ve been with them for about two years now. I know that their first, their first, um, month that they were live with our software, we closed an additional 22 leads on expensive Hvac systems for them.

Scott Ossim: And once they saw that kind of initial proof, it became all about, you know, nail it and scale it. And we, we did well off the bat to nail their estimator. And then from there, I mean, it’s, it’s only grown and now it’s front and center on their website. It’s front and center in their marketing campaign. And as people really start to see the benefit of offering this high service level to people. We just see that success continue to grow and to escalate as it organically works its way through everything else that they’re doing as a business. But that specific team I was talking about, you know, they had a pretty, I’ll say, modest amount of web traffic at that 1200 visitors per month or so. And they attributed an additional 22 jobs, which, you know, you’re talking Hvac systems ranging from 12 to $25,000 in that range. So really, really great success. And then once that once that champion has really had a chance to prove the system, we just see it time and time again. You know, everybody in the organization says, oh, we, we absolutely needed to be quoting Sunday nights. You know, we needed to be quoting off hours when other people weren’t because this is what people have been looking for.

Lee Kantor: And the way the the quoting works, is it all automated or is this something that AI helped you with? Or you have humans that are doing the estimating and then quoting?

Scott Ossim: You know, the estimating is, is all fairly automated. We work with that team to make sure the price is going out, are are reasonable. In some cases, we just do a month to month price to be able to build that. But we’re really hands on with that process of actually making the price book. And then everything else in this, this process is really automated. And you asked about AI there. And that’s, that’s something that’s really part of this most recent evolution of our product is, is actually working AI more into our tool, using it to identify different opportunities on a website. Like if there’s a blog page that’s doing particularly well with traffic, we want to leverage that with some call to actions, make sure to get people onto it. But, but long story short, you know, we’re really building these price books out in a manual way, often starting with people’s service Titan price books or whatever else they’re using. Um, and then when it actually gets onto their site, it’s loaded in using some AI or just directly as a plugin on the site.

Lee Kantor: Now what’s at the heart of their fear of sharing pricing? Is it like they’re afraid they’re gonna like underprice something, or there’s going to be some outlier that they’re going to miss and not be ready for? Or is it just like they don’t want anybody to know their business?

Scott Ossim: You know, it’s the whole outlier thing, I think has been a convenient excuse to, to not even really try to do this for a while. Um, so, so for a lot of people, that was kind of the main or that was one of the apprehensions is just Hvac is complicated. We don’t know until we get out into the home. And that’s a fair point. I would say the other, the main talking point that we hear is, oh, we need to get into the home to build value. That’s that’s really the typical one is, you know, we don’t want to start this conversation off online because we would like to get into the home and build value. And of course, as contractors, that’s how we’d like to sell. And if each job we go to could be a well warmed up in-person pitch, that would be excellent. But we’re missing that initial attention up front. So to really be able to build value in the home, we’ve got to start building value online to even get into that person’s home. So the goal is the goal is the same from this. It’s it’s to get into the home and to be able to build value, but instead of hiding the price upfront, which always, you know, in retrospect really seems like a losing strategy to me is to hide that price and to make it impossible, you know, ask them how they would like to, how they would like to be served and how they would like to go through this process.

Scott Ossim: And, you know, back to our Hvac days, they don’t care that the contractor wants a chance to get into the home. That’s not what they were looking for. They typed in price. They want to see immediate Hvac quotes. They want to see it within roughly a minute. So we need to flex, even if that’s just for month to month pricing. We have to be able to answer that question in a thoughtful way. That also leaves us room to go do that great contracting work that so many of our customers are known for. You know, being in the home, having your last name fixed to all your jobs and really being able to do that traditional process. But we have to start that off by by not just pitching how we want to, but how they would like us to.

Lee Kantor: And then when you’re talking about how the customer is going to actually interact, is this like a chat bot that’s on the site? Is it a click here for an instant price? Like how is it executed? Or does it say, you know, Hvac started, you know, $10,000?

Scott Ossim: Yeah. And as of now, it’s not a chatbot. It’s really going question by question. So not having a big form fill where people enter it all at once. But the first question is, let’s get you started. What’s your name and phone number? And you enter in that box. Then the next question, you know, where is your home located? And we use that to make sure that you’re actually in the service area. So that is, is the current flow, you know, going question by question and walking them towards this. Although to that point of a chatbot or an AI assistant that is, uh, a, a UI changeover that we are, we are looking at very intently for, for an upcoming product update, just to keep it in line with how people are slowly being trained to shop and to interact with sites.

Lee Kantor: And then what’s kind of the headline that gets them to even begin the process on the website?

Scott Ossim: You know, I think that the, the verbiage of are you talking about from the contractor going to that customer?

Lee Kantor: Right. Well, like, so I’m a customer and I need an Hvac. I go to the website. Is it say like, get your quote right now. Like what’s, what’s kind of drawing me to even begin the process of telling you my name?

Scott Ossim: Yep. An instant Hvac estimate is exactly what we do right there. And you’re right, people are guarded with that information. Most sites will only convert, you know, 2% or so of people that come onto there, but they’re a lot less guarded with the path that we’ve laid out and, you know, kind of put it two different ways. One of them is if you go onto a site and the first thing you see is schedule, service or book. Now. You know that by clicking on that CTA, you’re going to fill out all that information at once. You’re going to pick a time and have someone come out and maybe you’re not ready to start that sales process, and you know that you’re going to be in that sales funnel. So that’s what a lot of people expect as one path. And that causes a really high bounce rate because people are just looking to do some research and to get an idea of the local options. And then you see another, another call to action right next to it that says instant estimate. Well, it’s instant. It’s an estimate. I’ll actually get to see pricing. And now we’re asking question by question of name, location, where they are, what type of fuel source they have in their system. And by going piece by piece, we’re able to at least start them down that path. And then a lot of the times they’ll get to the quote page where we show a good, better, best option.

Scott Ossim: And right there it says, schedule a home visit. That same call to action I was talking about earlier, but they don’t want to click that because all they wanted to do was to do some research and to shop online. Well, when they’ve been given this opportunity, they’re not ready to book. And in either case, they’re ready to book. But here we are able to now reach out with their name and their phone number and all this information about their system, and be able to start that process off. And maybe they’re just doing some research ahead of time. And that’s, that’s what we get to know. Well, great. We’ll keep it in mind and maybe mark them for, for contact a couple of months later so we can reach back out when that timing is more appropriate. But ultimately, you think about just as a homeowner shopping, you see one button that says book now and one that says instant estimate. Well, I might as well just get my instant estimate and start walking down that path. And as soon as I start engaging with those questions at all, it’s capturing that information and providing it to the contractor so that they can follow up on anybody that’s even touched an online estimator. You know, it’s people aren’t doing it for fun. Anybody that’s touched an online home service estimator is somebody that we want to get in touch with.

Lee Kantor: So now you recommend putting both book Now and Instant Esmet even though most people just. If given those two choices, will pick instant estimate.

Scott Ossim: In general, we do recommend putting both options because some people. That’s not their. What they’re looking for is that pricing. That is the most common thing people are looking for is, is a rough estimate on a system. I would say if you if you only are going to have one or the other, have instant estimates. But the way, the way I see it having both options available is, is really covering a lot of your customer cases. And that option for an instant estimate is really appealing to the psychology of people that are in this, this process.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Scott Ossim: Website is contractor Commerce.com. Feel free to shoot an email either to sales at contractor Commerce.com or even myself directly. S o s s I’m at contractor Commerce.com, and we’ll set up a time to learn more about your company. See if this is a good fit, and if it is, then then make a game plan for winning some more. Install estimates in 2026.

Lee Kantor: And if you go to that website, is there an instant estimate, a box for me to go down?

Scott Ossim: There is a pricing sheet. We’re transparent with our prices too, but they just go right up as as a couple of different packages there. But yep, we, we practice what we preach over here.

Lee Kantor: All right. Well, Scott, thank you so much for sharing your story today doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Scott Ossim: Awesome. Thank you liane. Thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Franchise Marketing Radio.

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