Dan Mahony, Transcendent Sales Solutions, Keith Costley, Keck & Wood, Inc., and Samantha McElhaney, Pinnacle Financial Partners

Intro: [00:00:03] Broadcasting from the Business RadioX studio in Alpharetta, it’s Time for Profit Sense with Bill McDermott.

Bill McDermott: [00:00:17] Good morning. Welcome to Profit Sense. This podcast dives into the stories behind some of Atlanta’s successful businesses and business owners and the professionals that advise them. We help local business leaders get the word out about the important work they’re doing to serve their market, their community, and their profession, as well as discuss current issues that business owners are facing today across a wide variety of industries.

Bill McDermott: [00:00:44] I’m your host, Bill McDermott, and this show is presented by The Profitability Coach. When business owners want to increase their profitability, they often don’t have the expertise to know where to start or what to do, I leverage my knowledge and relationships from over 32 years as a banker and 14 years as a business coach now to identify the hurdles getting in the way and create a plan to deliver profitability they never thought possible.

Bill McDermott: [00:01:10] We’re going to be talking sales today, selling professional services. First, I want to introduce Keith Costley who is president and CEO of Keck & Wood. Keith, so glad you’re on Profit Sense. And by the way, welcome back because I was privileged to have you as a guest previously.

Keith Costley: [00:01:30] Yeah, thanks, Bill. It’s great to be back. I feel like a veteran and I really appreciate my relationship with you and our company’s relationship with you. We’ve been in the trenches together before. So, glad to be here.

Bill McDermott: [00:01:42] Yeah, and we’re delighted to have you. So, talk a little bit about Keck & Wood, founded in 54, providing professional civil engineering and other things. Talk about that a little bit.

Keith Costley: [00:01:55] That’s right. Founded in 54. So we’re heading towards our 70th anniversary as a firm, which we’re pretty excited about.

Bill McDermott: [00:02:03] Wow.

Keith Costley: [00:02:03] But our core services are civil engineering. We also do landscape architecture and provide planning and consulting services. But the core to our business is providing solutions to public sector and private sector clients who have a wide variety of needs, whether they be regulatory, development, engineering, solutions, consulting. But our bread and butter is city and county government providing a wide range of services. And we also do design work for private clients as well.

Bill McDermott: [00:02:42] And I love your tagline, “Collaboration By Design.” Talk briefly about that.

Keith Costley: [00:02:46] So, we believe that collaboration is just – has to be at the core of our business and our relationships and not only external relationships with clients but internal relationships. If we’re really going to maximize our success as a firm, we have to be collaborative in how we do our business, how we treat each other internally, and be collaborative with our clients. So that’s why our tagline is what it is.

Bill McDermott: [00:03:09] Yeah, well, and it’s a great one. I also want to welcome Dan Mahony who is president and CEO of Transcendent Sales Solutions. Dan, delighted to have you back. So, welcome back to Profit Sense.

Dan Mahony: [00:03:21] Bill, thanks for having me. It’s great to be here.

Bill McDermott: [00:03:23] And Dan is president of Transcendent Sales, which is a company that helps and empowers small to mid-sized businesses and turning underperforming sales teams into revenue-producing market leaders. So, Dan, talk about that briefly.

Dan Mahony: [00:03:36] Well, I started my business five years ago. I’m on my fifth anniversary. And what I do is, I help those business owners and CEOs that struggle with sales. A lot of times they started the company and they are running their companies. Plus, they’re the head of sales and they’re also the top sales producers. So, especially when you’re getting ready to sell your business, there needs to be that separation for the new buyer. And I work with those companies to help them build the right processes, the right systems, put the right people in there, and have the right strategy.

Bill McDermott: [00:04:09] Yeah. And it’s really about transferring those selling skills from the business owner to that next level of management. So, there is actual transfer – transferable value in the firm, isn’t it, Dan?

Dan Mahony: [00:04:21] Absolutely. And it’s that the skills and the relationships too, is how do you take those relationships from all those years and transfer them over to somebody new when they’re not there anymore?

Bill McDermott: [00:04:31] Yeah, yeah. Great point. And the baby boomer generation is retiring in droves. And so, we’re going to talk more about sales. And I’m excited what you have to contribute to the conversation.

Bill McDermott: [00:04:43] And Samantha McElhaney. Samantha, I believe, is maybe one of the best bankers in the city of Atlanta. Samantha, welcome.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:04:53] Thanks, Bill. Just call me Sam.

Bill McDermott: [00:04:55] All right, Sam. So, Pinnacle Financial Partners. You do a lot of commercial financial advisory business – advisory services. I know financial services because I’ve sold in that space before. You have a unique perspective on that. But talk a little bit about the work that you do and talk a little bit about Pinnacle Financial Partners.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:05:18] Yeah, the last time I was here exactly a year ago, I couldn’t announce that I had moved to Pinnacle Financial Partners. I was actually here with Keith doing a podcast and I just joined Pinnacle Financial Partners. So, it was a year ago, celebrating my anniversary.

Bill McDermott: [00:05:37] Wow! Happy anniversary.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:05:39] Thank you.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:05:39] And it’s the best decision I ever made because I’m with all of my old teammates from former banks, SunTrust, Synovus, Wells Fargo. We’ve assembled an all-star team here in Atlanta, and we are doing what we love, helping business owners make decisions financially that they need to either start their business, grow their business, transition their business, but also help them with their personal needs as well, too. So, it’s just the ideal job as far as banking is concerned.

Bill McDermott: [00:06:15] Yeah. And the thing about banking and financial services is obviously the more a business sells in revenue, the more deposits that a bank will have to be able to loan out. And so – but it’s not really selling as much as it is helping business owners solve problems.

Bill McDermott: [00:06:38] So let the four of us kick off this whole topic of sales. You know, I’ve learned recently over the last couple of years that before we can deal with skill set, we have to deal with mindset. And, Sam, one of the things that I think you do really well and I want to get Keith and Dan’s perspective because I’m sure they do this well also being clients set – being client-centric, one of the mindsets. You know, we have to be able to put our client’s needs before our own and deliver the solutions that meet those needs. So, how have you become the client-centric banker that you are?

Samantha McElhaney: [00:07:26] I think over the years, especially after becoming a mother, you have to put other people’s needs first. I’m a big faith believer. I go to church and it’s not just about going to church. It’s just, you know, getting up every day and having those conversations with my God. And that’s why I work where I work because our institution is a big faith-based institution as well, too.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:07:57] And putting those things into practice and knowing that if I put others first and their needs first, it will pay dividends long term. And so, listening to those individuals and listening to what they need in their life, and it may not be anything financial. I have a new client that had not had a vacation in years and they’re now right now at Disney World and all the family members are down there in Disney. And one of the things that I personally wanted to do and Pinnacle allows me to do it is I wanted to put a big gift basket in their hotel room so that when they open the door, it just welcomed them to Disney and they got to celebrate time with their family. So I got a text message on Saturday that said, “Wow, we opened the door and there was this huge gift basket that just said, ‘Welcome to Disney, you know, blank family.'” And they were just so thrilled and so excited that I got to do something like that to help them all celebrate. And it was a cooler full of, you know, water bottles and snacks and things. So they didn’t have to worry about going and getting all those things while they went out and visited Epcot and Magic Kingdom and stuff.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:09:01] So just taking that burden off of the family, that just makes me feel better as a banker on a regular basis. And that has nothing to do with financial whatsoever.

Bill McDermott: [00:09:10] Yeah. And, Keith, I know the time that you and I spent in the trenches figuring out the direction that you were going to take Keck & Wood, the tagline, “Collaboration By Design,” I think, if I recall correctly, deeply embedded in that was to really create the collaboration with clients and have the engineers also become client-centric and putting your client’s needs first. How have you seen that dream that you had become a reality?

Keith Costley: [00:09:45] In a lot of different ways. You know, we sell professional services and the value that we have is just through our expertise in our time. And I think the key to us being collaborative with our clients is building trust over time and adding value to every interaction that we have with them.

Keith Costley: [00:10:06] Give them a reason to respond to your email, to pick up the phone and take your call because they’re getting bombarded every day from all directions, from all manner of people and vendors and everything else. So, you have to give them a reason to spend time with you. And that’s really important to building that collaborative relationship with the client. They see you as an expert or having some expertise and they know when they interact with you, you’re going to be able to share something with them that’s useful in their lives.

Bill McDermott: [00:10:37] Yeah. And, Dan, I know you and I have had conversations. A lot of people have the mindset that selling is transactional, but in the vein of client-centric, it’s really relational. So as you talk to those solopreneurs or those business owners, whether they be large businesses or smaller businesses, what mindset issues around changing the perspective from this is a transaction to it being a relationship and the relationship is focusing on the client and not the person.

Dan Mahony: [00:11:22] Yeah, it’s from that perspective. When a lot of business owners, again, they have forecast, they have pipelines and you know, a lot of the salespeople, they get trained in the word I’ve used before is that’s been used as coin operated. It’s there. Okay. We have an opportunity and we just need to go in and we need to put our selling shoes on and we need to close it. And it’s just so easy to go and just from point A to point B, but in that relationship build, it’s so much more. It’s more like a chess game versus a game of checkers. I mean, there’s a lot of people to know. There’s a lot of things to understand before you earn the right to ask them for that business. So, it’s making them understand that yeah you have sales goals, but point A to point B, the straight line is not always the path that you have to take when you’re working on something that’s more complex from a sales perspective.

Bill McDermott: [00:12:18] Yeah. Is there a particular story maybe of a client that you’ve worked with recently that might come to mind where you were kind of dealing with this whole selling mindset versus relational mindset?

Dan Mahony: [00:12:33] Yeah. I worked with a client that, you know, worked very large transactions. And, you know, one of the problems they had is they just had the wrong team. And there was that mindset. Their mindset was, we’re going to go out and we’re going to get an order today and we’re going to go out and we’re going to win today. And you want to have that positivity. But they were dealing with companies that were Fortune 250 companies, and the transaction sizes were high six to sometimes low eight-figure transactions. And you’re just not going to go in and write a two-page proposal and send it to somebody and they’re going to sign off on it. So they didn’t understand that complexity of it.

Dan Mahony: [00:13:10] So after we put in the right first people and then we surrounded them with the right process on how we’re going to go about these sales, yeah, they’ve seen – they’ve seen system sales increase by probably 300% over the last couple of years just because, and again, it’s more time. We’re very methodical. But every conversation, everything we’re doing at every time is an event. And if you have a half-hour conversation, we’re going to prepare an hour to an hour and a half for that one conversation and getting them in that you just don’t go on the fly. You know, I think a lot of salespeople have this Superman or Superwoman complex. They could just go in and just handle any situation. And a lot of times they can’t. And they realize and you don’t get a lot of – in big opportunities, you don’t get a do-over.

Bill McDermott: [00:14:04] Right. No mulligans.

Dan Mahony: [00:14:06] No mulligans in sales. Absolutely.

Bill McDermott: [00:14:09] So, Keith, I think the next mindset is around what we’ve already talked about that it’s necessary for that professional to be collaborative, and collaborating effectively is being able to do it with others. That’s harder for some people than it is for others. How do you share ideas and work towards common goals? So certainly, there’s been a mindset shift probably in your collaboration by design. Talk about that a little bit. How is the importance of a collaborative mindset necessary?

Keith Costley: [00:14:49] Well, I think a lot of – we had really good bones before I became CEO six or seven years ago. But I think the key is, is being intentional about what it is that you’re trying to do, what is the message you’re putting out there to the marketplace and how can you leverage that to the benefit of your clients and to the company. But, you know, it’s – sometimes we find ourselves pursuing a wide variety of projects for a wide variety of clients.

Keith Costley: [00:15:21] And sometimes even just recently, we’ve started to develop a capture plan template to help us focus on, well, instead of trying to be everything to everybody and trying to communicate out there, how do we, you know, make that pool of potential clients smaller and do a deeper dive and really invest that time and research and understanding what their needs are and understanding those people and getting to learn those people and building that trust while we’re trying to build an understanding of what their needs are, what future projects are. And it just takes intentionality to allow yourself to pursue less volume of work but hopefully be more successful at meeting your client’s needs and ultimately building more business for your company.

Keith Costley: [00:16:09] And people kind of get in the mindset sometimes that we need revenue, I need to sell, you know, I need to be successful in sales and I need to pursue anything and everything that we could possibly do. And as we are growing up as a firm and growing as a firm, we’re taking a step back and going, “Now let’s get more focused. Let’s do a deeper dive on five clients rather than trying to pursue 25 clients.”

Bill McDermott: [00:16:33] Yeah, yeah, because you can go an inch wide or you can go five feet deep. But there is an intentional choice that gets made. I personally prefer to go deep versus wide.

Keith Costley: [00:16:50] Sure. But that’s not necessarily the natural mindset that people are in.

Bill McDermott: [00:16:54] Right.

Keith Costley: [00:16:54] You know, they just, you know, we can do that, you know, so let’s go after that.

Bill McDermott: [00:16:58] Yeah, yeah.

Keith Costley: [00:16:59] And sometimes it’s better to take a step back and be more intentional and strategic in the types of clients and projects that you pursue. And that’s just something that we’re learning how to do better.

Bill McDermott: [00:17:09] Yeah. And, Sam, I think part of your mindset is your approach to really put the team at the disposal of the client, and that client may have different problems to solve and likely you become the quarterback of the team. So, how has collaboration played out in delivering professional services to business owners?

Samantha McElhaney: [00:17:39] Yeah, it’s really frustrated me over the years when different bankers have said that they’re all things to all people because you can’t be all things to all people. We just read a book at Pinnacle because we read books on a quarterly basis. And I mentioned to you, Bill, the book that we just finished was one called Unreasonable Hospitality, and it’s been focused and featured on the shows, the Bear and Billionaires and stuff. And in the book, it talks about not being all things to all people, just be all things to that one in front of you at that moment at that time. And I love the fact that it says, you know, be good at what you do and then get all the others around you and what they’re good at and just assemble this amazing team around you.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:18:30] So, you know, I really like working with small business owners, but I have an opportunity right now to work with companies and I’ve been introduced to companies that need, you know, 40, 50, $60 billion in financing and they’re not getting factual information from other banks or they’re not getting the information that they need from other lenders. So, I’m able at Pinnacle to pull in other people in different departments and all across the United States and they’re getting on the phone or they’re getting on Zoom or they’re even getting in a plane and coming here to Georgia to work with me and help my prospects or my clients with those opportunities. And there’s no competition. There’s no I’ve got to meet a goal, or, Sam, get out of the way, or I’m learning.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:19:21] At 30 years in my career, I’m learning just like my clients are learning of our capabilities. And it’s fun and they’re seeing it on my face. My clients are seeing it, and they’re eager to learn about what, not only capabilities we have but how I can help, how my coworkers can help. And we’re all learning together. And if we can’t do it, we’re getting them in front of other institutions that can help. And there’s no fighting with and among each other about that. And it’s just fantastic that we’re trying to help the business succeed.

Bill McDermott: [00:19:55] Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. That’s awesome. We’re talking today with Dan Mahony, who’s president and CEO of Transcendent Sales Solutions. Transcendent is focused on empowering companies with tactical sales strategies to accelerate revenue growth. We’re also talking to Keith Costley with Keck & Wood, as Keith mentioned, a company that provides civil engineering landscape architectural and land surveying services, companies in four offices in Duluth and Fayetteville, Georgia, as well as Rock Hill and North Charleston, South Carolina.

Bill McDermott: [00:20:32] And then Samantha McElhaney with Pinnacle Financial Partners. So Sam has, as she said, 30 years in the financial services industry and works hard to solve her clients’ daily business struggles. When she’s not closely working with clients, she’s out networking with individuals. And I’ve seen that networking in action and it works really well.

Bill McDermott: [00:20:55] So the last thing I’m going to pick up on what Sam was talking about reading. Salespeople I think don’t understand because of the transactional mindset, Dan, they don’t look at themselves as professionals, just like a doctor or a dentist or an engineer or an attorney. So, what I’m wondering is if we could shift the topic and talk a little bit about continuous learning, having a growth mindset. You know, we’re on a journey that is leading us to become not only better people but also better professionals. So, how do lifelong learning and having a growth mindset, you think, play into being successful at selling?

Dan Mahony: [00:21:42] You know, very much so. There are so many different books out there on sales and there are so many – you know, there’s training, there’s educational videos. But, you know, I’m old school when it comes back to the fundamentals. It’s as we talked about, it’s first of all, being present. And if you’re present, the most important thing is, is you have to be a very good listener. Okay. It starts with listening, number one, and then being inquisitive and being curious and, you know, asking good questions. Because a lot of times you find with sales folks, I don’t care how many sales trainings they’ve gone through, they are thinking about what they’re going to say next when somebody is talking to them and they’re not present there. So, you know, sometimes I’m like, put all the books away and just go back to the real basic things. It’s just good listening skills. And if you are present, actually be present.

Bill McDermott: [00:22:35] Yeah, yeah. So, asking questions that are based on curiosity, Keith, I guess, how have you used that growth mindset in building a culture of successful engineering professionals?

Keith Costley: [00:22:56] I think some of the key concepts, and I totally agree with what Dan just said, you know, being curious about what your client needs is. Asking good questions is just – it’s just absolutely critical. But, you know, in order to, you know, build relationships, I find that instead of coming into an interaction with a client and wanting to talk about us or me, you know, if we turn that around and make sure that we’re learning about them or doing our research, we’re talking about them. And even when we’re doing, writing articles, are we writing articles about what we did or are we celebrating our clients and the cool projects that they’ve done?

Keith Costley: [00:23:45] You know, are we – when we’re posting on social media, are we talking about our successes and our people, which is important, but are we also celebrating our clients and their people and the good things that they’re doing? So, you know, it just takes a moment and we try to instill in our culture to be a client-centric, have a client-centric approach, and get out of our own heads. Because when we submit proposals and statements of qualifications too much, it’s all about us instead of it being about the client. And we’re trying to learn and improve that every day.

Bill McDermott: [00:24:24] Yeah. And, Sam, in your professional journey, I know that you are a lifelong learner and you and I share books and I’m going to read, what was it?

Samantha McElhaney: [00:24:38] Unreasonable Hospitality.

Bill McDermott: [00:24:39] Unreasonable Hospitality. That is a provocative title.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:24:42] Yeah.

Bill McDermott: [00:24:42] So I look forward to that. But you’ve been a lifelong learner. That’s who you are. Do you have a sense of what has made you that way?

Samantha McElhaney: [00:24:55] Well, I mean, I’m supposed to be a teacher and I’ve got a daughter who’s going to be a teacher.

Bill McDermott: [00:24:59] Okay.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:25:00] And I constantly crave feedback. I think when I meet people because of emotional intelligence, if I can’t pick up on it myself, if I’ve either done something well or I’ve not done something well, I beg people to tell me. I hopefully pick up on it. But if I don’t, I beg you to tell me one way or the other. Let me know that I’ve done it well. Give me good feedback or even give me the bad feedback. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with hitting the elephant in the room straight on because we can learn from it.

Bill McDermott: [00:25:39] Sure.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:25:40] So, for instance, Dan and I are in a networking group together and he knows my eye will blow his phone up and go, “Hey, give me some feedback here. How did that go? How did that – how did the meeting go? How did the presentation go? What can we do better as a group to grow the group, to make the group better?” I just – I want everything to not be perfect because you can’t be perfect, but like you said earlier present because a strong group makes for better opportunities for everyone in the group to be successful. So, more feedback makes for better education, makes for better prosperity for everybody.

Bill McDermott: [00:26:16] Sure. So I think we’ve talked about mindsets and being client-centric, being collaborative and being continuous learners. Let’s kind of, before we move on to successful skill sets, can we synthesize all of those three things? Dan, any closing thoughts on the synthesis of client-centric, collaborative, and continuous learning?

Dan Mahony: [00:26:43] Well, and just what Sam said, it’s that – it’s that feedback, is if you’re in a true collaboration and you’re working as a team and having that and being open to that feedback is important because many times, even though we’re collaborating, people, you know, people don’t want to get called out or they can’t, they take that honest feedback is not a learning opportunity but is an attack or they take it, personal. So, you know, if to have the right mindset, you have to go in at that. I’m always learning and I’m open to learning because, you know, my dad always says, “Hey, listen when you stop learning,” he’s 83 years old, “when you stop learning is when it’s all over.” And he’s still learning at 83.

Bill McDermott: [00:27:26] Yeah. That’s awesome. Keith, synthesizing it in your mind?

Keith Costley: [00:27:31] I think one of the key concepts is just being curious. And so if you are curious enough to want to know from your client and get the feedback from them, how are we doing? That’s a really powerful question.

Bill McDermott: [00:27:47] Yeah, people don’t –

Keith Costley: [00:27:48] How are we doing?

Bill McDermott: [00:27:49] Yeah, people don’t care how much you know, till they know how much you care.

Keith Costley: [00:27:52] Right, right. And so even if you get some tough feedback because nobody’s perfect, no company is perfect. But if you’re willing to ask the question, then you’ve taken a huge step.

Bill McDermott: [00:28:06] Yeah, yeah.

Keith Costley: [00:28:06] You know, and – so, I think that being willing to be curious and ask those types of questions of your clients does nothing but deepen that relationship.

Bill McDermott: [00:28:17] Yeah.

Keith Costley: [00:28:18] Really important.

Bill McDermott: [00:28:19] Sam, as you kind of bring those three things, what are kind of final thoughts from you on mindset issues?

Samantha McElhaney: [00:28:29] I think it was during COVID someone suggested to me to pick a word every year and live by that word. And so, and I think that has to go with mindset. And so 2023, I picked transparency, which I think goes with what you’re talking about. And as long as we all remain transparent, I think we can hit a good mindset with, you know, our client-centric collaboration, curiosity and continuous education, and everybody will be on the same page and – or at least know where everybody stands and move forward.

Bill McDermott: [00:29:03] Right, right. It’s a great point. So shifting to skill set, Dan, I’m going to pick up on something that you said earlier when we’re talking about technical skills. Selling is not about talking. Selling is about listening. And so, I think one of the technical skills is not only being present but listening while you’re present. Talk about that.

Dan Mahony: [00:29:30] Well, I think when we’re having a discussion with somebody, as I mentioned before, many times we’re trying to think about what we’re going to say next versus actually listening, listening to them. So I think it’s really important, you know, from a skill set perspective is going back to being curious, I mean realizing that you have a lot of research that you can do before you go and meet somebody. I mean, think about when we used to go to try to meet somebody 30 years ago, we didn’t know anything. Now we have so much information and I think it gives us the ability, you know, as we’re communicating and we’re listening to them, you know, we should know more when we’re going in which we ever did before. And if that’s the case, you know, our conversations should be much more specific than just in a general sense.

Dan Mahony: [00:30:22] Like I always say in sales, like the first question, you know, and especially in this day and age, when somebody walks in and says, “Hey, Bill, it’s nice to meet you. So tell me a little bit about your company.” That’s usually the “Are you kidding me?” I mean, you’re asking me about the company. You should you should know all these things already. So, yeah, it’s, you know, those are some things that are just real important as, you know, being prepared and, you know, just those good listening skills and, you know, going in with a plan, too.

Bill McDermott: [00:30:53] Yeah. And I think, Keith, one of the things that is part of your sales process is certainly technical knowledge. But beyond technical knowledge, what are some of the things that you see the successful people in your organization possessing as skill sets?

Keith Costley: [00:31:15] Curiosity for sure. We try to have our people. We don’t have anybody in our organization that is their sole responsibility is sales. So, we have a doer seller model. And one of our challenges as a company as we grow is to clearly establish who in the company is responsible for maintaining relationships, building relationships and producing the sales, the growth and revenue.

Keith Costley: [00:31:48] And so it’s just making sure that those people are aware that they have that responsibility, they have tools. We have some basic mindset that we need for them to be in and questions that they need to be asking and researching and being curious about. It all ties together and then developing some processes around this is how we do it. This is the Keck & Wood way to prepare for a meeting. This is how we strategize on what clients are pursuing and why. These are the questions that we have to answer, ask and answer, before we put time, effort and money into developing relationships with different clients.

Keith Costley: [00:32:33] And so, yeah, it’s really exciting time as we grow as a company to help our staff realize these things. You know, we all went to some type of professional school and got some kind of technical degree and we have to teach our people how to be effective friends and client representatives and managers and be able to do sales. And it all works together.

Bill McDermott: [00:33:01] Yeah. Dan?

Dan Mahony: [00:33:02] I think one of the hard things when you have somebody that’s technical is, you know, you’re a nuclear physicist. How do you go and explain nuclear physicist to somebody that doesn’t understand it at all? And it’s trying to understand how you, you know, water it down a little bit and simplify something that’s very complex, like civil engineering or anything like that.

Keith Costley: [00:33:24] It is really hard. I had my own experience with that. I was talking with an accountant about tax-related issues and I was just getting very valid information from this person, but it was very technical and it was formed this and ruled this. And I’m like, “Whoa, you’re speaking a language I don’t understand.” So to speak to your point, it is difficult for some of our highly skilled, highly technical people to boil it down to common sense language that a city manager or a mayor or somebody can understand. And that’s a challenge. That’s definitely a real challenge.

Bill McDermott: [00:34:01] Yeah, great point, Dan. Sam, to build a little bit on what Keith said in technical skills and maybe even in communication skills, the power is in the question that you’re asking rooted in curiosity. So as you have developed as a successful sales professional, how have you crafted your questions to me, more powerful or more meaningful to the person that you’re sitting with in the meeting?

Samantha McElhaney: [00:34:36] Oh, okay. It really all depends on the person. I mean, like Dan has said earlier, a lot of time is spent upfront researching. I mean, I live and breathe by LinkedIn and finding out not only about the individual but researching with my connections what they know about the individual and specific things I need to know. Finding out articles. I do a lot of keyword searches and indicate the person down the road in case some current events or things happen so that I can bring that into the conversation.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:35:16] But, I mean, even though I am a more aggressive individual, I always try to find out about the individual family-wise or significant events, vacations. Pictures can tell a lot. So you can start conversations off with key events that are happening with the person’s life. I mean, if you look at my social media posts, I mean, of course, it shows my twins. So if someone never asks me about my twins, I have a real problem connecting to them.

Bill McDermott: [00:35:46] Because they’re a big part of your life.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:35:47] Because they are my life.

Bill McDermott: [00:35:49] Yeah.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:35:50] Or a football.

Bill McDermott: [00:35:51] Right, right.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:35:52] This is my season of the year. So if you don’t ask me about college football right now, it’s going to be a real hard time trying to connect.

Bill McDermott: [00:35:59] So, I’m trying to say this with –

Samantha McElhaney: [00:36:02] All due respect.

Bill McDermott: [00:36:04] Passion, but Roll Tide.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:36:05] Yes. But I’m also a Gamecock, so.

Bill McDermott: [00:36:08] Okay. Okay.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:36:09] But yeah, so doing those types of things will help an individual connect and therefore ask the right of questions. But if I’m listening, then I can make the right transitions and go down the path of asking the right questions and then funneling them, making those questions, start opening them really large, and then going more direct to the avenue that the person needs to go to.

Bill McDermott: [00:36:32] So, Dan, technical and communication skills seem to kind of blend together, but we as professionals know that from our EQ, we’re creating conversations either of resonance or dissonance. We, you and I, as we have had coffee together, our conversation resonates. It creates harmony. I’m picking up what you’re putting down and I think vice versa. And so, we’re probably aware of those resonance harmony or dissonance disharmony conversations that we’re having. And so, how does that play in in your experience into the sales process as you’re sitting across from the table, maybe even thinking, “Gosh, I’m really loving this conversation,” or, “I’m really struggling to connect with this person and don’t really know how”?

Dan Mahony: [00:37:32] Well, I mean, you never know. I mean, it’s you go in and you can do all the research. You can stalk them on LinkedIn like Samantha does. I mean, we could do all of these things and we could look at all their pictures and everything. And when you show up with that person, you just don’t know what they get. They could get having a bad day. They could have just – they could have just lost the deal. You know –

Bill McDermott: [00:37:55] Their dog died.

Dan Mahony: [00:37:56] Their dog is sick or died. I mean, you just don’t know. So it’s, you know, sometimes it’s timing. I mean, it’s – you know, sales is they say – is sales an art or is it a science? I’ve always said it’s a little bit of both. And you know, and, you know, not to go and get back into movies, but it is like a box of chocolates.

Bill McDermott: [00:38:15] Yep.

Dan Mahony: [00:38:16] Because you never know what you’re going to get on that one call. You could meet somebody one day and they’re Mr. Talkative and they could meet him in the next week and they’re closed-off and they don’t want to have it. So it’s just being flexible and being quick on your feet just to, you know, just try to get as much out of them. And sometimes, and I’ve had conversations with someone you could that is closed-off say, “You don’t really want to have this conversation today, do you?” And they’re like, “Not really.” And I was like, “Can we do it next week? Is that it would be next week?” And they actually appreciate that.

Bill McDermott: [00:38:49] Yeah. Because you can sometimes read their body language. They’re either feeling – you’re feeling disconnected to them or – and then like you said, maybe something happened in their life and they just can’t focus. Well, the worst thing that you can do is continue to have that sales call. So part of those communication skills are knowing when to call a time out and say, “Look, this is not the day to do this, is it?”

Dan Mahony: [00:39:18] Yeah. Like we always know what our objective is. Our objective is in the process to go to the next step. Sometimes you got to, you know what, let’s take a pause and we’ll do it again at another time.

Bill McDermott: [00:39:29] Yeah, yeah. And so, Keith, I’m sure you’ve had some situations where communication and the ability to guide the conversation or what do you handle in a situation if a client surprises you with a question that you didn’t expect, how important is the ability to be able to go with the flow in those conversations?

Keith Costley: [00:39:55] So, it’s important to be able to react appropriately, but it’s also really important to not say things you’re not confident in because people will understand if you don’t really know what you’re talking about. And it’s okay to say, that’s a great question and I know who I need to talk to or I know what I need to do to research that and I will get you an answer on that. That’s okay.

Bill McDermott: [00:40:19] Yeah, yeah.

Keith Costley: [00:40:19] But one of the things I was thinking about when Dan was talking was it’s – I think it’s a learned skill, too. If you have an interaction with a client and, you know, there was dissonance, you know, you didn’t connect well, it didn’t go well, whatever, to not give up on that opportunity, to find another way either recognizing that moment that, hey, maybe this isn’t the right day or time, but, you know, just because it didn’t work one time doesn’t mean that the next time it might work. And sometimes I find it’s human nature that when you feel like there wasn’t a connection and well, I’m just going to walk away from that opportunity and go on to the next thing and I would really encourage people to try to find a way to try again. And, you know, if it’s consistently you’re just not connecting with that person, then so be it. But don’t give up on one try.

Bill McDermott: [00:41:15] Yeah. Sam, I want to go to kind of our next point because I think you do this so well. Relationship-building skills, to Dan’s point, it’s really art. So as you are approaching your sales, you’re always putting that relationship first before any transaction takes place. So what do you feel like are some of the key elements based on your experience in building relationships with those clients or with those potential clients?

Samantha McElhaney: [00:41:54] I think honesty is very important upfront. Because I’m – personally, I’m not going to be everybody’s cup of tea. So I want to be upfront with those individuals and find out what they’re looking for in a partnership and make sure that my skill set will match what they’re looking for and vice versa. And if it’s not, then I want to make sure I have the teammates and the capability to help to the table. And if it’s not going to work, then introduce them to people that I know in my bag of, you know, connections and make those introductions for them.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:42:38] I want to make sure people listen. Honesty, listening, and just effort. I think effort is so important if – I tell people if you will give 100%. And if you’re not capable of it, again, the honesty comes into play. But if you’re always giving 100%, then there’s not going to be a problem there. If you can’t give that 100%, let someone else know and let someone else come in. Tag them in with the teamwork.

Bill McDermott: [00:43:07] Yeah, yeah. Great point. So as you’re talking, what came to my mind is, so I have this computer program that plays in my head. My dad told me very early on, “Bill, anything worth doing is worth doing well.” And so if you’re going to do something, then do it well. So I think that’s part of my DNA. And I think the other word that you mentioned earlier, which is your word for 2023, building relationships that are also transparent.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:43:41] Yeah. And that’s why, again, I’m so excited to be back with my old co-workers from SunTrust because this was the group that helped me when I went through cancer. I know I can trust these individuals. Because they were there for me. They allowed me to tag out and take the time, you know, go through chemo, survive, do what I needed to do. And they allowed me to tag back in and do my best work. And now I’m back with those same people and we’ll be able to do that same thing as we’re getting older and taking care of our families and all that stuff. So, yeah.

Bill McDermott: [00:44:13] Yeah, yeah. This is kind of a full-circle moment.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:44:15] It’s full circle.

Bill McDermott: [00:44:16] For you.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:44:16] Full circle.

Bill McDermott: [00:44:17] We have to celebrate that.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:44:18] Yeah.

Bill McDermott: [00:44:19] Dan, are there one or two relationship-building skills that you’re working with your business owner clients that are just kind of non-negotiables?

Dan Mahony: [00:44:31] As far as working with the owners themselves? Yeah. So, you know, for me, typically it’s there are three things that have to really occur for it to be successful. Number one, they have to realize they have a problem. Okay. Number two, it’s realizing they have a problem that themselves or anyone in their company is able to fix. The third one is if they don’t do something, the problem is not going to get any better. It’s likely to continue to decline. Those are kind of the three things I need as far as being able to work with somebody.

Dan Mahony: [00:45:05] And, you know, as far as just the relationship – that’s the basis of the relationship, is being able to like, “Hey, I’m here to help. I’m not here to be the CEO. I’m not here to be your permanent hire for VP of sales. I’m not looking to work for you. I’m just looking to help solve your problem.” And, you know, them being open to feedback is key, too. Like, we have to go in. Sometimes, we have to tell the business owners that, you know, their baby is, you know, not as handsome as they think it is. And it’s, you know, having those very tough conversations with them is they have to be open to that, or else the success is not going to happen.

Bill McDermott: [00:45:47] Sure, sure. Keith, what are you finding as some of the critical relationship-building skills that are necessary for successful engineers?

Keith Costley: [00:45:58] I think a lot of it is just understanding the individual’s role in developing relationships and maintaining relationships with our clients. And it’s really interesting to speak with some of our younger professionals who don’t realize that they can have a role in relationship building and business development and as well when they’re interacting with a client on a project. It’s okay to ask them, “Hey, what’s on your mind these days? Or what’s coming up next or whatever?” And they just – sometimes it’s just talking to them about that and having them realize, “Oh, yeah, I can ask that question.”

Bill McDermott: [00:46:38] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Keith Costley: [00:46:40] And so, it’s just a lot of little things. But I think one of the keys is having our people put their client’s interests first and being genuine with them and asking good questions and the rest of it just kind of flows naturally from that.

Bill McDermott: [00:46:56] Yeah. And so, I think where we’ve kind of landed on skill sets is certainly technical skills, communication skills, relationship-building skills. Sam, I’m going to kind of ask you to maybe synthesize this, not only the mindsets but also the skill sets, how you have done this so successfully. What are just some closing thoughts and comments that you might have for our listeners?

Samantha McElhaney: [00:47:27] Bottom line, when it’s coming to a relationship between myself and a client, with it being a partnership, just ask them what they’re looking for. Bottom line, you know, how do you want to be communicated with? I always tell people I’ve had a client in the past, they’re always on the road and they simply wanted a text message. Don’t bombard me with emails. Don’t call me. Just send me a text. And that’s how I communicate. And I always give that example because if I did anything else for that person, we would have never been able to communicate and we would never be able to work together. So if you just clearly ask, they’ll tell you what they want.

Bill McDermott: [00:48:10] Yeah, that’s a great point. Dan, same question, kind of how do you synthesize what we’ve talked about today in mindset and skill set and successful selling?

Dan Mahony: [00:48:21] You know, I think successful selling and relationship building is realizing that, you know, a lot of times we’re in a consultative – we’re consultative selling and we want to do value-based selling and realizing that how value-based selling has changed. As the salesperson, you are the value. You are the value that is coming to the client. It’s not necessarily your product; it’s your service. It’s your expertise. It’s your background. You are the value. So I think when salespeople know that and realize that and realize they got to continue to educate themselves to continue to increase their value.

Bill McDermott: [00:49:00] Yeah. Great points. Keith, kind of same question. How do you bring all this together in mindset and skill set and professional services?

Keith Costley: [00:49:10] You know, it’s an interesting challenge to have confidence that you have the technical skill to have the – to be humble and be curious and to be able to interact with people and not overwhelm them and really listen to them and then ultimately go down a path with the client that will give you an opportunity to provide a service to them. And hopefully, you’ve built some trust and some rapport along the way. And because without that trust and rapport, you might win some work, but you don’t build lasting relationships. You don’t get repeat business and things like that. So it’s a real challenge for professionals who don’t focus on sales all the time to kind of put all the pieces together, but that’s what we do. And this is how we keep the business going and growing.

Bill McDermott: [00:50:10] Yeah, yeah. Dan, there might be a listener who, something you said really resonated with them and wants to get in touch with you. What’s the best way for them to contact you, phone, email website?

Dan Mahony: [00:50:25] Yeah. Visit transcendentsales.com. We have a website. You know you could be -I could be reached at our business line, (404) 271-6767, or email, sales@transcendentsales.com.

Bill McDermott: [00:50:41] Great. Thanks for coming on the show today.

Dan Mahony: [00:50:43] Bill, thanks for having me.

Bill McDermott: [00:50:44] Keith, kind of same question. There are special people at Keck & Wood doing special things. There is a war for talent out there, but there might be an engineer who is really interested in what you had to say today and the great company that you’ve built and others before you have built. How did they get in touch with you and with Keck & Wood?

Keith Costley: [00:51:11] Sure. If you want to get directly in touch with me, I’d be happy to talk to anybody who’s interested in this topic or Keck & Wood, (678) 417-4001. That’s my landline, mobile line, text. You can reach me. But if you just want to learn information about Keck & Wood and see what we’re all about both from a professional side but also, you know, the human side of our business and how we interact with each other and the things we do in the communities that we work in to volunteer and whatnot, check out our website. It’s keckwood.com, K-E-C-K-W-O-O-D, dot com. Or check us out on LinkedIn. We do a good job of doing posts regularly, talking about our clients, our projects, and our culture. So if you want to learn about us, those are the best places to go.

Bill McDermott: [00:52:02] Great. Keith, thanks so much for sharing your experience and expertise in this topic.

Keith Costley: [00:52:07] Thank you, Bill.

Bill McDermott: [00:52:09] Sam, it’s so hard for business owners out there to have a relationship with a banker, especially with all the banking consolidation that goes on. But you do banking relationships well, and I can say that as having been in banking for three decades. So if what you’ve said today really has resonated with someone out there, whether they be a client or a fellow banker at another bank, what’s the best way for them to get in touch with you at Pinnacle Financial Partners?

Samantha McElhaney: [00:52:38] My phone number has not changed in 18 years, unlike my employer, so my phone number is (678) 524-7133. And our website is www dot P as in Paul, N as in Nancy, F as in Frank, P as in Paul, dot com. And you know, you’re at the right Pinnacle website when you see the Batman building on the website, the one in Nashville, because that’s where we are headquartered. But we have three locations here in Atlanta. Don’t mistake us for the Pinnacle that is here in Georgia, headquartered here in Georgia, but we are headquartered in Nashville with three locations in Atlanta.

Bill McDermott: [00:53:22] Gotcha.

Samantha McElhaney: [00:53:23] Thank you.

Bill McDermott: [00:53:23] Sam, thanks so much for coming on the show today. Great topic.

Bill McDermott: [00:53:28] So, I want to take a moment and talk to my business owner audience on if you’re selling your business or transitioning ownership, whether it be to co-workers or a potential strategic or financial buyer, we have to think like buyers. Every business owner has a big dream to sell their business, achieve financial freedom, and live life on their terms. But recent studies show that business owners have a concept of the value of their business but less than half of those have obtained an independent valuation. How do we know our value corresponds with the market value to a buyer?

Bill McDermott: [00:54:13] Selling our business is a lot like selling a home, except the business values are usually much higher. Everyone knows that kitchens and bathrooms sell houses. Location is also critical. Typically, to maximize the value, we don’t sell our house ourselves. We hire a professional agent. They come up with a listing price based on comparable sales and run a process. In the same way when selling our business, it’s important to think like a buyer. This means understanding what buyers are looking for in a business and how we can position our business to be attractive to potential buyers.

Bill McDermott: [00:54:51] Number one, identify your ideal borrower. Who is our ideal borrower and what are their goals or pain points? Knowing who we’re selling to, we can tailor our marketing materials to appeal to them.

Bill McDermott: [00:55:04] Second, prepare a business for sale. This means cleaning up our financials, updating our marketing materials, and getting our business in top shape. Many business owners don’t know where to start or what to do in these areas, so hiring a professional to help you is critical.

Bill McDermott: [00:55:21] Third, hire a business broker or an M&A advisor. It’s best to have an independent advisor to handle the marketing of our business, finding potential buyers and negotiating deal points.

Bill McDermott: [00:55:36] By following these steps, you can increase the chances of selling your business for a fair price and to a buyer who is a good fit for the company.

Bill McDermott: [00:55:47] If you want to keep up with the latest in pro-business news, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram at The Profitability Coach. If you want to listen to past or future Profit Sense episodes, you can find us on profitsenseradio.com.

Bill McDermott: [00:56:01] This is Profit Sense with Bill McDermott signing off. Make it a great day.