Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, Business RadioX. If you’re a business coach or a business consultant who’s tired of being a best kept secret, set up a call with Stone Payton at book stone.com to unlock your perpetual prospect pipeline. Today on the show, we have the CEO with CRLCONSULTING LLC, Charisse Lillie. Welcome.

Charisse R Lillie: Thank you. Good morning.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am so excited to learn about your practice. Tell us about CRL Consultant. How are you serving folks?

Charisse R Lillie: Yeah. So I have been consulting since 2017. Since I left Comcast. I was a senior executive at Comcast for 13 years, and initially I was focused really on diversity. It was Post-George Floyd and I had a lot of clients who were calling me because they were trying to deal with employees who were concerned and upset. And I did focus groups, and we did a lot of creating a proposals for them about how they could deal with diverse workforces. My, my, my consulting right now really deals more with corporate governance issues and executive leadership issues. So I’m doing a lot of executive coaching and much less the diversity work, but always with a lens on making sure that that employers are working to have equality and diversity into their workforces.

Lee Kantor: Could you talk a little bit about the transition from working at a large kind of enterprise level organization to then being an entrepreneur and starting your own consulting firm. I’m sure a lot of folks dream of being kind of their own boss at some point, but maybe have never taken the leap.

Charisse R Lillie: Yes. Well, it was a part of it was I really depended on some of my mentors who were referring clients to me. And I also did a lot of speeches. I did a lot of speaking engagements. And then I had to get a make sure that I had some administrative help. So I had to have some administrative help. And it was so it was it was very different. And I was accustomed to having infrastructure around me and having an assistant. And, and also with the, the, the law firm who was a big structure in terms of getting referrals from my, my law partners, actually. So it was it was quite an adjustment, but it was an adjustment that I made and I’ve enjoyed working for myself. I, I also now serve on three corporate boards. So the. That’s the other thing that’s taking up a lot of my time. And serving on the corporate boards has been a lot of work because the, the change in the last, I would say 15 years, I 15, 20 years. I joined my first corporate board in 2006. Uh, really the focus on corporate governance, governance with corporate boards is huge. And I chair two compensation committees and it is a lot of work. So, um, doing the, the business development as well as working on the corporate boards means that I’m still working seven days a week. I didn’t think I was going to be doing that after I left corporate America and the big law firm world. But that’s, that’s the way it is. And it’s good. I have no complaints.

Lee Kantor: Now. Do you have any advice for other leaders out there that would like to kind of get on a corporate board? Are there some do’s and don’ts on making yourself available for that type of work?

Charisse R Lillie: Well, I’m going to tell you the anyone who is interested on in getting, um, joining a corporate board, um, you have to do that much younger in your career, because most corporate boards now have mandatory retirement ages. Some of them are in the 60s, some of them are in the 70s that you have mandatory retirement. But my experience of getting on a corporate board was really it was based on recommendations by other people, more senior in my than the legal profession. And then in corporate, um, they got to know me as a younger person. Uh, and it is very hard to do that, um, either mid-career or late in your career. Um, basically because getting on a corporate board is primarily is going to be based on personal relationships that the CEO, CEO, CFO, and in some instances, other board members have.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, early on, you mentioned the importance of mentors. Was that something you did strategically, or is that just something that happened as part of kind of the culture of your organization? Can you talk a little bit about, you know, how to find a mentor, how to, you know, kind of work with a mentor.

Charisse R Lillie: Sure. Um, I, um, was very lucky because I, I did not seek mentors. I was really my mentors picked me and, um, and so it is important that I really talk to people about how you get a mentor because getting a mentor, um, is going to depend on how your workplace is set up. Um, in the beginning I was a government lawyer and I worked in the Justice Department and both in Washington and later in Philadelphia in the U.S. Attorney’s office. Um, and, uh, some of the leaders that I met in, um, my law government law firms were also people that helped me along the way and served as, as, as mentors. Um, but it, it’s not easy for you to just get a mentor if you’re not in a workplace. And, um, you also have to work very, very hard. So my mentors, um, really sort of adopted me because I was known as a hard worker. I was known as someone who had some serious concerns about civil rights issues and diversity issues, and my mentors were always very supportive of me. But finding a mentor is not going to be easy, and I. The one thing that I can say to people who are early on in their career, and even mid-career, if you are not in an environment, and particularly for people that are working remotely, if you’re not in an environment where, um, you either have a formal or informal mentoring program, uh, that was created by your employer, then you are going to have to get involved either in community service.

Charisse R Lillie: Um, some people find mentors in their churches. Um, you may be able to find someone who has a business background who is active in your church. Um, but I also found a lot of mentors and, and we’ll talk about sponsorship later also, but I found a lot of mentors when as a young person, I served on, um, community, um, oriented boards in Philadelphia and the legal community. I was on the Juvenile Law Center board. I later joined the the local United Way board. But I met people who were in the business community who noticed me, who paid attention to me when I was talking in a in a board meeting or talking in um, a committee meeting of that, of that board. Um, and those are the people that ended up being my mentors. So I, I really recommend community service, um, as a way of finding things that you are passionate about in your community and volunteering and attending those board meetings. The other thing is that if you take on a community board, you have to show up at those boards. And the other thing about community service is that you also have to make donations to the boards. And let me just say this. I was a very young, um, government attorney when I joined my first corporate board.

Charisse R Lillie: And, um, and, um, and that’s, I’m sorry, my first nonprofit board and I didn’t have a lot of money. I wasn’t making a lot of money, but I gave in accordance with my ability to give. And most nonprofit boards are going to be happy. They’ll tell you it’s sweat equity. Um, and it’s also, um, money. So if you can volunteer and do things for that nonprofit board and give what you can, what you can within what you can afford, um, they are going to appreciate that. And, um, you, you’ll get some longevity in terms of that. But the other thing about community boards is you will meet some members from the business community who are also passionate about the same things that you are. And, and you can, um, speak up in the board meetings, but you can also introduce yourself to those business leaders, talk to them about what work they’re doing in their companies and develop a relationship because the best mentorships are going to be those relationships where the mentee also brings something to that mentee mentor relationship. It’s not just going to the um, to the Oracle on high to get advice about your career. It’s also being what I call a useful mentor. And I talk about this in my book, um, uh, to your, uh, mentor, to your mentor.

Lee Kantor: Now, can you talk about kind of the advent of the work from home, um, kind of trend that’s happening? How does, how do you think that maybe an unintended consequence of that is affecting, uh, mentorship, uh, within organizations and even, like you said, opportunities, uh, to volunteer for boards and nonprofits. Do you think there’s that, that you have to also invest time face to face in, in some of this work and organizations in order to really reap the benefits of those kind of relationships.

Charisse R Lillie: I do think that the, the, the mentorships that you have face to face conversations with your mentor, you’re able to ask questions. You’re able to spend a lot of time, a little bit of time, um, letting that mentor get to know you and you getting to know, um, the mentor, it’s just invaluable. And, and I believe that you can do some of that on Zoom or, uh, whatever your, your platform of choice is, but it is easier to do that if you’re having a face to face conversation with a person. And that’s why, um, you know, I really suggest that if people are in, uh, virtual relationship in, in virtual work forces and you’re not seeing your supervisor, you’re not even seeing your coworkers, you don’t even know your coworkers. And, and unintended consequence of the virtual workplace is that you don’t have those opportunities for the face to face. And it’s, it’s face to face, but it’s also developing a personal relationship with that person so that they can be helpful to you and you can be helpful to them.

Lee Kantor: And also you miss out on those kind of random serendipitous, you know, times you run into each other at the elevator or at lunch or something like that. Those moments are lost and those things kind of compound over time.

Charisse R Lillie: That’s right. No question. I can remember with my mentees at my law firm, so many conversations that literally you have it in the hallway or on the elevator. Um, and you are, you are, you’re getting information, you’re getting data about that person. You’re understanding what kinds of issues they may be dealing with in one of the cases that they have. And those are standing, you know, putting a tea bag in a tea bag in the in the kitchen, you know, those kinds of opportunities are just missed when you have a virtual workplace. Um, so I think you’ve got to, you know, for a young person, um, and it’s also for mid-career people because we do have so many virtual workplaces or workplaces where people are only in the office Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. They’re not, they’re working virtually, um, from Monday, you know, on Mondays and Fridays. So it is an unintended consequence. And so you are in control of any person who’s building a career has to remember you are control and control of building your career. And so if you don’t have those opportunities because you’re in a virtual workplace, you are going to have to figure out what other opportunities can I create for myself to develop relationships with people that are in the business world. And it’s optimal if those people are in the business world, in the profession, or in the business that you are in. But if they are not, then you need to find that business person in your church or in some community group that you’re involved in and really use them as a resource.

Lee Kantor: And do you think that organizations, because if they are remote, that they have to kind of be proactive and create opportunities for some of the serendipity and some of these more informal, um, connecting points?

Charisse R Lillie: Yes. And I’m, I’m aware of, of some, uh, businesses that are doing that. Um, a lot of businesses are um, having um, either annual meetups, um, with um, their employees. It’s expensive though, you know, if you’ve got a remote workplace that’s expensive. Um, but I, I, I feel like if you got the remote workplace and you’re not spending a lot of money on, uh, rent, um, in a big city office building, then you can take some of those funds and try to create a, a, um, a work environment. Um, that, um, that promotes, um, the, um, the creation of these, these closer relationships with more senior executives, but it’s challenging.

Lee Kantor: Now, you mentioned your book, uh, Upon a Turning Stage. Can you talk about what was the kind of impetus to write a book and what’s it about?

Charisse R Lillie: Yeah, sure. So I, I wrote this book because I have a number of mentees and, um, I have too many mentees for, for one human being. And, what what are the reasons that I wrote this book is to answer the question, how did you get this career that you have? Because I, I have had a wonderful career in government, uh, in, uh, in, you know, big law firm in major, uh, corporation. I was a law professor for three years at Villanova law School. And, and people want to understand you’re, you’re successful. How can I be successful? And so part of the reason I wrote the book was to tell my story and talk about, um, the different jobs that I had along the way, but also it was an homage to my, um, mentors because my mentors were so important and helpful to me throughout the time that I was building my career. Um, I, um, I have, I have a personal relationship with an organization in Philadelphia called team shop Incorporated. It is a mentoring organization for young high school girls, um, created by a dear friend of mine, Ellen Jean Henley. And, um, I also wrote this book for them because every one of those, those girls is going to get a copy of, of, of this book.

Charisse R Lillie: Um, and I want to talk to, uh, I have three audiences and the title of the book is Upon a Turning Stage Life Lessons of a Mentee, mentor and Ally. And so I want to talk to all of those people and to the mentees. I’m, I’m really trying to say to them, look at what I did to build a relationship with my mentors. And not everybody is going to build their relationships the same the way that I did. But for example, um, I grew up in the South. I grew up in Houston, Texas, and my family, you wrote birthday cards, you wrote handwritten notes, uh, written thank you notes with my mentors. Um, I sent them holiday cards. I sent them cards on their birthdays. If one of my mentors I read in the newspapers they were getting an award, I would try to go to that. I buy a ticket to that, that event and try to go, um, to um, to celebrate them. If I couldn’t go to the, um, the, to the um event. I would write them a handwritten note and say congratulations. Um, and um, I stayed in touch with them even after I stopped being close to them. You know, once I wasn’t working for my, the judge that I clerked for or left the Justice Department.

Charisse R Lillie: I still, I stayed in touch with my former bosses and creating that long term relationship creates that friendship that, um, that you can always call that mentor. Um, if you get in a tough spot or if you just want to share some good news, I, I would share, I would share my good news when I would get a new job or if I was getting a promotion, I would let my mentors know and I would thank them for what they had done. Um, for me. Um, so I, so this is so as, as the mentee, uh, this book is, I’m, I’m saying to mentees, this is the way that I did it. You figure out some sort of way to be what I call a useful mentee to your mentor, to the mentors. Um, it is really a call out to them. Um, and to say that there are young people in your workforce and if you’re not seeing them in the hallway every day, figure out a way to, um, develop a relationship with some of those young people and give them advice. Um, and that advice and mentoring is going to lead to your ability at some point to be what we call a sponsor, someone that can really help them grow and, um, and nurture their career.

Charisse R Lillie: And then finally is also a call out to mentors in the workplace that I call allies, uh, people in the workforce that, um, that are, are going to take a public position if they’re in a leadership position that they want to say, encourage their, um, their, their company to have a formal or an informal mentoring program where you, you would actually identify someone in the workforce and that you would agree that for a six months or a year, you’re going to take a meeting with them and it can be a virtual meeting, but you’re going to take a meeting where you’re spending 15, 20 minutes with them, asking them about their career, asking them about what they’re trying to do in terms of getting better leadership or getting some promotion, and then giving them some advice along the way. So it really is a book that, um, you know, I hope is going to be, um, helpful to, to young people in the workplace, but also for people that are in more mature positions, um, in the companies that they are going to take, um, become allies for their younger employees. And also that they will be, they will be mentors.

Lee Kantor: Now you’ve mentioned several terms. Can you explain the difference between a sponsor or a mentor, an ally? How do they all come into play for someone?

Charisse R Lillie: Sure, sure. So a mentor is someone who makes a commitment to, um, a person that they’re going to have regular contact and maybe once a month or maybe once every couple of months, that mentor is going to give advice. Uh, the mentee should come to that meeting with that with with, with prepared questions and should have, um, have a view about what it is they want to do with their career. And let me just say this. What you want to do with your career is going to change over the years. When I began my career as a young lawyer, my goal, my two earliest mentors were, uh, federal judges, Judge Higginbotham. Adrian Higginbotham, junior, and Judge Clifford Scott Green. My first boss out of law school, and I wanted to be a federal judge like them. So I, when I was talking to my mentors was saying, this is my goal and this is how I plan to reach it. But all the things that I did led me in a completely different way. I mean, it led me to corporate law. It led me to, uh, senior senior position in a large corporation. And so I, the fact that you have a plan doesn’t mean that you can’t change that plan, but the plan can give you some Guideposts, and then that will help your mentor be a better mentor to you as you’re going along the process. Now, a sponsor is someone who may not even work with you closely, may not know that you are a hard worker. They may be sitting in a board meeting and they’re observing you. How you carry yourself, what your presentation is, how you ask questions.

Charisse R Lillie: Um, or they’re, if you’re someone who, uh, is being get, getting awards in your community, they’re saying, this is a young person who, who really has some, you know, has some get up and go. And I want to support them. One of my biggest sponsors was somebody, um, who was, uh, eventually became the president of the American Bar Association. Um, and I never, I mean, I never worked with him, um, you know, formally, but he observed me in the legal community and, and was always saying nice things about me at rooms where I had no idea who he was. And I had no idea that I was being discussed. So a sponsor is somebody who puts their reputation on the line and says, this is a good person. We should give that person an opportunity. We should give that person an opportunity to do this job or get this award. Um, and so that is a sponsor. Um, an ally has a less formal, an ally is usually going to be in that workplace and is going to be an ally of, of groups of, of young, um, you know, immigrants, young people who are maybe first generation, um, uh, um, you know, lawyers or business people. And, and the ally in the workplace is someone who is going or, or women, women who are in workplaces. And when I joined, uh, my law firm, we had not had a lot of, um, female partners. Um, so an ally is someone who is sitting in, in a position of authority and can be helpful to people in their workplace. An ally is generally going to be in a in a specific workplace.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share that maybe illustrates the importance of kind of investing in mentorship? Is there a mentor story, um, that you have been part of that maybe kind of illustrates how the impact, uh, you know, a, the right mentor, the right sponsor can have on someone’s career.

Charisse R Lillie: Yeah, sure. So, um, I’ll tell you one of my stories and then I’ll tell you about one of my mentees. Um, uh, Valerie. Um, Harrison. Um, I was, um, when I was, um, being considered for both, um, a position at Villanova Law School, um, as well as a position at Comcast. Um, uh, corporation. I had mentors who had worked with me in the past who were contacted by my mentors. So I had Judge Green and Judge Higginbotham, who, unbeknownst to me, were being contacted by Villanova Law School because their names were on my my resume and they hadn’t worked with me for years, but they gave good recommendations for me. Um, and, um, and I didn’t find out until years later that they had, I had been at the law school for, for a year. So when I understood that they had made those, those, um, that they had expected the calls and it said good things about me. Um, my, when I was at Villanova law student, uh, Villanova law School, one of my, um, mentees at Villanova law School was a young woman named, uh, Valerie Harrison. And, um, at one of my board meetings, uh, for the Public Interest Law Center, I was sitting next to, uh, Bill Brown, who was a senior partner at the law firm, which no longer exists anymore.

Charisse R Lillie: And he said to me, you know what I have gotten? We have gotten some really great applications from Villanova law schools, but Villanova Law School, but we have not gotten any applications from African American students. And I’m really concerned about that. Do you have any students that you would recommend? And at this point, Valerie was a first year student, uh, going between her first and second year. And I said, Valerie is not a second year student, which I know you normally would hire, but I recommend her highly. I recommend her highly. She is smart. She is hardworking. She’s thoughtful. She knows how to carry herself. She would do well in a big law firm. And so Bill Brown, um, I sent her resume and, uh, she ended up working, uh, hiring her for a summer internship. Um, that following summer, between our second and third year, she went to a different law firm and ended up not going to the state firm. She went to that firm. But she has always given me a lot of credit for making that initial introduction to, to, to Bill Brown. So it really is when you are in a position to help a young person, you’re, you’re, you’re doing everything that you can to help them. And so, um, I was blessed with a lot of Judge Greens and Judge Higginbotham’s in my, um, in my career.

Charisse R Lillie: And when I went to, to um, Comcast, um, I was recommended by um, the, uh, head of HR who I had worked with, uh, but also by my, the former chairman of my law firm, David L Cohen, um, who by then was a senior executive at Comcast. So I have throughout my career been had just these just amazing opportunities. And I’ve had people that I considered either sponsors or mentors who have just been, um, saying very nice things about me and being very helpful to me and very supportive of my getting those positions. And then as a result, I feel a real obligation to the people that I am mentoring, um, to try and do the same thing for them. And I’m still doing it. So when I get a phone call and it’s somebody that I can stand up for and, um, give them a good recommendation, I’m, I’m going to do that. Absolutely. Uh, because I have so many mentees, it’s hard for me to really accept, um, anymore when somebody asks me if they want to be, if I would be their mentor, I can’t really do that. But, um, uh, anything that I can do to be supportive of the mentors, mentees, rather that I currently have, I’m always willing to do that.

Lee Kantor: Now when you’re consulting work, what is the problem that these organizations are having right before they contact you? Is there, do you have kind of a sweet spot in terms of, uh, what you deliver for organizations?

Charisse R Lillie: Well, you know, it’s going to depend sometimes it is an issue. Most of these are corporate governance issues where they have a general council. These companies have a general council and they are getting advice from the General Council. Their internal lawyers. So their internal lawyers are reading, reaching out to me and saying, um, we think that this is a special governance issue that either crosses the law or it crosses our our internal documents. And I feel like I need some outside help. And, um, they are coming to me to give them core corporate governance advice. And I take a look at what the law is. I take a look at what their internal documents are. I may make a recommendation that they change their internal documents based on what the law is saying. It’s usually a conflict of laws issues, uh, issue. And the general counsel, um, the chief lawyers for those, those companies are coming to me to ask them for um governance advice. Um, and some of it still is around, um, diversity issues because, um, for some of these companies, they have, uh, had interface with either the federal government, um, or their state governments and with the federal government. Um, now, um, taking a position on, uh, some issues in terms of diversity, um, they want to get outside guidance and make sure that they’re, they’re operating completely within the law. So it’s going to, it is going to depend, but the, the corporate governance issues, um, are those of the corporate governance issues. And then with the executive leadership issues, sometimes it is a question of executive action. And then sometimes it’s also a question of executive coaching. So I may also take on, um, a formal, um, coaching relationship for um, it’s usually middle executives that they think has the potential to have potential to be in senior leadership of the company at some point in the future. So it’s around corporate governance and corporate leadership. Executive leadership.

Lee Kantor: Now, have any organizations contact you about helping us build or develop their mentoring program? It seems like mentorship is so close to your heart that this would be another area of, um, interest and maybe, uh, work that you could get.

Charisse R Lillie: Yes. Well, I have nobody’s contacted me yet, but I’m, I’m hoping that some of the, the, uh, HR leaders will read, read my book and decide that they would, um, would like to have me, uh, advise them on that. And, um, and, uh, I can say this now I’ve been away from Comcast, uh, long enough now, but we did create, um, when I was the senior vice president of human resources, um, at Comcast, um, and I was SVP and, uh, cable division, which then was the largest division we did, we did develop an informal mentoring program, and it went all the way from the president of the um, uh, cable division, um, on down to our regional leaders. And the program worked well. Some of those, um, some of those people have stayed in the company and are now in more senior leadership positions with the company. Um, so yes, so I have not gotten those kinds of requests yet, um, from potential clients, but I’m hoping that if they read the, uh, read the book that I will be able to help some, uh, companies create those programs because I, mentorship is very, very close to my heart, as you can tell. And, um, I think that, um, particularly in companies where there are remote environments, um, I can be helpful to them to either either create the, um, the, um, in the formal programs or if they have the informal programs, I can help them make those programs better.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to get a hold of the book or get Ahold of you. Is there a website? What’s the best way to connect?

Charisse R Lillie: Yes, they can reach out to me on LinkedIn. Um, they can also go to my website, www.charisserlillie.com.

Lee Kantor: So and that’s the website is charisserlillie.com. Right, charisserlillie.com.

Charisse R Lillie: .com. Yes.

Lee Kantor: Well, Cherise, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Charisse R Lillie: Thank you so much and I really appreciate this opportunity to speak with you. It’s been a pleasure, Lee.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.