Intro: [00:00:07] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios. It’s time for Women in Motion. Brought to you by WBEC West. Join forces, Succeed Together. Now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:27] Lee Kantor here with Dr. Pamela Williamson. So excited to be talking to these women today in this episode of Women in Motion. Pamela, who do we have today?

Dr. Pamela Williamson: [00:00:38] I am excited because we have two guests. One is Orion Brown and she is the founder and CEO of Black Travel Box, a premier clean beauty brand targeting women of color. She is a brand strategist with over 15 years experience dynamically leading cross-functional teams across multiple industries. Her areas of expertise include consumer insights, brand strategy products and packaging, innovation operations and portfolio management. So Orion, thank you for joining us today. And our second guest is Holley Joy. Holley is the supplier diversity manager with Liberty Utilities. Holley has over ten years of experience in supplier diversity, including four years as the manager of supplier diversity at California American Water. Holley, thank you for joining us. And I think I’m going to kick off with the question for you. Can you tell our listeners a little bit more about Liberty Utility and also how do they engage with women of color, specifically black women entrepreneurs?

Holley Joy: [00:01:40] Hi, good afternoon and thank you, everyone, for joining. Thank you, Dr. Pamela, for inviting me to this conversation and to my fellow podcaster. Ryan, congratulations to you on the success of your business. I’ve been with Liberty Utilities for the past year, notwithstanding my previous decade experience in supplier diversity. And so I’ve always been interested in how do we bring forth and recognize and actually work with partner with diverse owned businesses. Liberty Utilities is actually an international company. Our parent company is Algonquin Power and they are based in Canada. But we provide several types of utility services across the nation in various states, everything from water to solar to electric and power in the different states and in Bermuda and Chile.

Holley Joy: [00:02:33] We also provide water utility services there. Liberty’s experience in supplier diversity is probably more prevalent in the state of California and is now expanding to the West region, which in terms of liberty’s territories or services, includes California, Arizona and Texas. So I’ll speak first about California because that’s where we’ve had the most experience. We work with diverse companies. We are under compliance of a general order with the Public Utilities Commission, and we have been successful in meeting all of the targets and goals these past few years for those diverse categories. For African-American women owned businesses, though, full transparency, we struggle in that particular category. And I’m not I’m not thinking that it’s because there’s a lack of African-American owned women that could partner with us for the products and services that we procure. But I think that we just need to do more in focusing specifically on that particular group of individuals. We offer a variety of products and services as we are executing on just daily operational needs and also projects. So I’m pleased to be a part of Quebec West as a corporate member, and I’m looking forward to partnering and creating a forum, a vehicle, a platform or a path with African-American women business owners through Quebec West that we can absolutely find an alignment for opportunities for some of the projects that we’re we’re looking for both in California and in Arizona.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:18] Now I’d like to throw out a topic to the group. How has this increased focus on DEI impacted both of your businesses?

Orion Brown: [00:04:32] Yeah, I’ll hop in here. I think, you know, the we’ve seen a lot of shifting over the last several years. So when we look at, say, things like investment numbers into black women owned businesses, black owned businesses or just women owned businesses more more broadly, you know, we saw some pretty abysmal numbers in the 2018, 2019 time frame at the pivot point that we saw with, you know, social issues and discussions around George Floyd ET. A lot of companies have been doubling down on bringing in more vendors. And then on the investment side, we’ve seen a lot more discussion around how to best support and empower these know, black women owned businesses in particular. I think the challenge is, though, is keeping that momentum. And so as we see a slowdown in the broader ecosystem and there’s a little bit less of a headiness within sort of the investment space, particularly in venture capital. And I think that also trickles down to Angel as well. Angel really follows. We’re seeing that that interest is waning. So the funds are, you know, tending to dwindle the opportunities while there are many, I think that, you know, people kind of forget, especially, you know, for myself as a as a black woman entrepreneur, I will get people going. Oh, well, have you heard of this, this fund or this grant program? And it’s literally thousands, if not tens of thousands of people applying for the same one grant or, you know, five grants maybe.

Orion Brown: [00:06:17] And many times those are between the 5 to $15,000 range. So when we’re talking about check size, when we’re talking about opportunities to tap into the investment network and when we’re really talking about the resources that are needed, there’s still quite a bit of work to be done there. We’ve seen that uptick. It’s kind of cooled off and now it’s, you know, we’re just looking forward to seeing what that starts to transition to going forward. And hopefully we get to a place of equilibrium where there are additional opportunities. Funds aren’t looking at black women owned businesses as impact investments, but as investments, period. And that’s what I’m hoping for in the future.

Holley Joy: [00:07:07] I would agree with that Orion. I think that also there is a messaging that has to be broader from not just my company standpoint, but in the utility space that I operate in that we have to be more focused on specifically those areas where we’re feeling like there has not been the we have not reached our goals and objectives and African-American women. And just as an aside, African-American men are the same. But in this particular conversation, we speak about African-American women. I think that there is absolutely some additional things, some additional very specific focused groups and forums that we need to bring to the table to give visibility to the companies that are seeking to do business with African-American women as well as be ready and more available with projects that are not some some time on the 1 or 2 year horizon, but exactly in the moment.

Holley Joy: [00:08:08] And that’s going to require myself, a supplier, diversity manager, my supply chain team, really coming together to identify what do those projects look like, what are the types of suppliers that we need? And then seeking the partnership that we have with the community based organizations like WBEC West to specifically target the members within their groups for opportunities that are occurring in the moment, that absolutely are providing the good products and services that we need to execute successfully and deliver the water utilities that we need to have in that moment. So we’re working on that. We certainly want to do that and and build that greater in California. In Arizona, I think we have a great opportunity because I’m just embarking on standing up that program. So I am starting to reach out. And just yesterday had a conversation about a supplier forum that I’d like to do probably first quarter of excuse me, first month of the fourth quarter. And I’ll be reaching out to WBEC West and some of the other organizations for targeted audiences for opportunities with Liberty.

Lee Kantor: [00:09:17] Now, go ahead. I’m sorry.

Orion Brown: [00:09:20] I was just going to say I absolutely love that. And just to piggyback off of it, what what better way to invest in a business than to give it to the opportunity to invest its own revenue. And so when we’re actually creating those types of opportunities, making sure the infrastructure is in place for them to be successful, understanding the differences between working with the massive, you know, institutional businesses that you may partner with historically and what that looks like, how that looks very differently for a small or mid cap business and making sure that that there’s infrastructure and process and resourcing accordingly to set that relationship up for success is really key.

Holley Joy: [00:10:03] Absolutely. Orion You it’s like you’re in my head. We are so aligned in that space because you cannot, even as a supplier diversity manager, go out and speak to the opportunities if in fact your infrastructure and your administrative processes and tools are not supporting it. Everything from internal outreach and educating our staff about the possibilities and who is in the diverse marketplace, but also our procurement practices and making sure that we align with what the goals and objectives are that we’re trying to reach and that it speaks to that it’s not a set aside that we’re looking for. It’s not that we’re asking for special dispensation, but we’re asking for making sure that all of the components line up so that there’s a better opportunity for not just inclusion, but success. And that we would be able to tell the story about how we have introduced, built and developed some of the companies that are seeking to do business with us. Once we get the word out, once we put the infrastructure in place and once we present the opportunities, I have no doubt that there are African-American women owned businesses that are ready and able to compete and can come to the table and deliver what it is that we need in our projects. So we’re we’re aligned on all of that. It’s just a matter of putting all of those pieces in place.

Lee Kantor: [00:11:27] Now, what do these entrepreneurs have to do to be ready to do business? And Orion, for your from your perspective, what advice would you give an entrepreneur? So when they do have a conversation with somebody like Holly that they are prepared for it and ready, you know, they’re ready to do business. Not that they just want to do business, but they’re actually ready to do business.

Orion Brown: [00:11:57] Well, I think, you know, every company is going to be different. And the key is to be able to have the right people at the table who can articulate what it’s going to take. So oftentimes in companies, you’ll find if procurement drives the bus, there may be other business leaders that are actually standing in the gap and trying to create programs and trying to bring that diversity into the pipeline. But ultimately, you need to have procurement on the discussion and vice versa. So depending on how the business is actually structured, the first thing you need to do is figure out who the right person is that knows what the process should be and is, you know, ideally, if not the decision maker adjacent to the decision maker, that can give you that really clear point of clarity as to what their requirements are as a business owner. Ultimately, you just have to be ready to spend more than you thought you were going to take twice as long. We don’t want you to actually do that. But when you’re starting to estimate what it’s going to take to make it, especially if you’ve never done, you know, say, large corporate contracts or larger partnerships before, give yourself fudge space. So when they’re when you’re asked, what’s your timeline, yes, you want to meet the RFP timeline, but make sure that you’re giving yourself enough space to make mistakes, figure it out and still deliver with the level of excellence that the client is expecting.

Orion Brown: [00:13:19] So that’s what I would say for any business, doesn’t matter what category you’re in, but ultimately what those specifics are in terms of scale, in terms of your capability statement, all of those things you can partner and, you know, talk to folks at Quebec and and other places to get, you know, a general sense of it. But it really is going to come down to the person who knows and who is within the company that you’re trying to do business with.

Holley Joy: [00:13:46] Absolutely, Orion. If I could just qualify my this next statement by saying I have a healthy respect for any entrepreneur that endeavors to chart their own path that is brave enough to to decide on their own destiny and then also has a product or service that they are passionate about, that they are creative enough about and they are steadfast in delivering on that product or service. I say that because that is certainly one of the things that a business would have to do to be ready. Right. Know your product or service. Know what your who your competitors are. Know what your bandwidth is in terms of time and money. As you begin to seek clientele from whether it’s a small, medium or large corporation. I’d also ask that the entrepreneurs, especially if you’re coming into a space like Liberty or into a company that is just new to you, that you would allow some grace for your learning of their processes and also some patience in what those processes are.

Holley Joy: [00:14:56] Everything is not always a turnkey that you can just walk in and talk to you today and you know, here’s a contract we’re handing to you tomorrow. There are timing issues, whether that’s internal to the departments, whether that is something from a liberty perspective, we have to align with regulatory compliance issues or things of that nature, but also taking some time to learn the client that they’re pursuing. Right. I sometimes hear so many times of businesses and not just African-American women owned businesses, but businesses that say, you know, I can do whatever it is that you need. You know, thinking that that is the actual selling point. That’s really not what I am looking for. And as I speak to some of my colleagues, we’re not looking for you to do everything. We want to see how you align on that one best product or service that you know, without a doubt you’re going to be able to deliver 100% of the time. There’s no guessing about it. There’s no, Oh, let me see how I can do it. I don’t know this for sure. We want to know what is your main product or service? And let’s see if we have alignment for some of the opportunities that we’re offering.

Lee Kantor: [00:16:12] Now, what are some resources that you believe are the go to resources that can help diverse entrepreneurs kind of get their foot in the door?

Holley Joy: [00:16:28] Yeah, I’m assuming that might be for me. I don’t know. But also I’d love to hear what Orion’s experience because that’s the real talk there. But the resources that a new business has approaching Liberty Utilities is first and foremost. Absolutely. Find out is this a product or service that they’re offering that the utility actually aligns with? Right. I always say if if I’m looking for apples, please don’t try and sell me oranges, but just make sure do some research on the company, whether that is local in your area. You can find it on LinkedIn. You might be. In our case, you can find our annual report on the California Public Utility Commission website and it tells you what projects we have we have executed on in the prior year. It tells you where we landed in our spending with diverse suppliers. It speaks about what’s coming up and it also provides a standard industrial code numbers for people to see where are they spending the bulk of the money. I can tell you right now that 80% of all of the dollars spent in a utility are usually in construction and engineering.

Holley Joy: [00:17:36] That’s not to say that the other 20% is not important to us. Those are that 20% is what keeps us moving as a business. We’re looking for maybe it support. We might be looking for consultants. We might be looking for. Well, not might be. We certainly are also looking for promotional products because we’re out and about in the community. So learning about the company and using the couple of resources that I’ve given you are certainly key. Also, the resources that are available through their membership and associations like WebEx or their local chambers who might have a tie in to a larger utility. As I said, in Arizona, I’m just starting to to foster and broker those relationships. In California, However, we are members and sponsors and partners with several community based organizations that do have knowledge about what the utilities are looking for, can make introductions to supplier diversity managers and also internal team members to the point that Orion made before. Who is the actual decision maker or next to the decision maker that can actually talk shop about the products and services that they’re looking for.

Lee Kantor: [00:18:57] Orion, are there any kind of go to resources for you or that you’ve kind of leaned on in your years as an entrepreneur?

Orion Brown: [00:19:04] Yes. And you know, it’s interesting because, you know, my background is in CPG and brand management, so I’m familiar with sort of the spaces and places that physical goods can show up. So one of the places that, you know, was just mentioned is this idea of, you know, essentially corporate gifting. A lot of entrepreneurs don’t know that those programs exist. Alternatively, when we look at things like the military folks will think, well, oh, I don’t sell defense capabilities or tech or army fatigues, but they don’t realize that that the US Army globally is, you know, one of the largest procurement opportunities for things that come in, grocery things that show up in personal care, beauty. We’ve got people deployed all over the planet and there are sourcing, you know, American made American owned brands. And so the first thing that I’m going to say and this is going to sound super rudimentary, but if you don’t know where to start, start with Dr. Google because he knows, you know, this is the place where you can ask the question where you know who purchases the most, you know, whatever product it is. If you make the best churn butter on the planet, go look for who’s purchasing fresh churned butter, because you’d be surprised. It might be the local hospitals that are looking for natural, you know, fresh churned butter. I’m making something up. But this is where, you know, the getting into starting with the industry first and then coming down into specific players makes sense. So you may not know that utilities is a way that you know, a way in a potential client for you. So now that you’ve kind of figured that out, you can begin to look at, okay, so where are the utility companies? Where could I actually service someone? Is it my immediate area? Are they, you know, in broader places? Another thing, you know, everybody’s all on the i fad right now, but Chatgpt is actually a really great tool to help you essentially index what is out there.

Orion Brown: [00:21:02] So you can literally say, I am a, you know, a maker of I am a service provider of please give me 20 different potential clients that I could sell my products to. And you’d be surprised how the wide variety, because it’s essentially indexing the Internet, it gives you a really wide breadth that gives you a great starting place. Secondarily to that, now that’s just the upfront research. Then you want to actually start talking to people within the space. If there’s people who provide the same service you do and maybe you’re a few years ahead of you, if there are people who do the same thing in terms of product or, you know, close to it, if you can find mentorship in that way, you can also find what channels they’re actually selling through and creating partnerships at these corporate levels. And I think beyond that is also just getting into communities so we bank and other communities where you can tap into and shoot a note and say like, Hey, I’m looking for resources. Do you have matchmaking days where I can figure out what my business might fit the need, you know, what kind of companies might be a good partner for us. I’ve seen a number of events that do essentially sort of matchmaking services or just info sessions. These are the opportunities to educate yourself as to what your market could potentially be outside of the obvious areas that you may or may not be thinking of.

Lee Kantor: [00:22:24] Now, you mentioned mentoring. Let’s throw this out there to the group. What is kind of the best strategies for a person that wants to get fined, identify a mentor, and also to be a good mentee? You know, I’m sure all of you can speak to both sides of this, but for the person out there who has never had a mentor, what’s the best way to attract one? And for the person who is a mentor, what are you looking for in a mentee? Holly, want to take the first stab at this?

Holley Joy: [00:23:06] I’m sorry. I was just trying to formulate the question. You said what are. What are you looking for? Could you repeat the question?

Lee Kantor: [00:23:14] Yeah, I’m just trying to help the audience in terms of if they’ve never been a mentor. We spoke earlier about how being mentored or being a mentor is important for a lot of people’s careers. Let’s talk about kind of the nuts and bolts of from the standpoint of finding a mentor. Like, how do you find one That sounds good, but how do I get one? And also from the standpoint of anybody who’s been a mentor, what are you looking for in a mentee in order to really have a productive relationship for both of you?

Holley Joy: [00:23:49] Okay. So in terms of how do you find a mentor, I don’t have any professional resources for that. And perhaps, Ryan, you might have some resources, but for me personally and even professionally, on a personal level, the mentorship that I have provided have not necessarily been specifically defined as mentorship, but mentorship. But it’s been kind of organic. I’ve had different suppliers that come and speak to me on a regular basis or want to speak with me on a regular basis, and we schedule a cadence of meetings and it’s a mixture of getting to know the individual behind the business and then also understanding their business and offering insight that is from a layperson’s perspective or even sometimes in my professional self as a supplier diversity manager. So, you know, again, I don’t have a hold a title as a professional mentor, but the mentorship that I have been involved in have been strictly organic. It’s been very easygoing conversations. And I think in terms of what the mentee would need to present is a willingness to learn and to step outside of their box within reason. Not that it’s, you know, should break their bank.

Holley Joy: [00:25:08] I’m not encouraging spend all of the money that you have trying to go in this new direction. But certainly consider what this layperson, that being myself might be looking for as they talk about their business, as they tell me what the product or service is and that they would be willing to listen. And I think that that has built some very good, just personal and professional relationships that have kind of morphed into a mentorship where they now say, Hey, you know what, I’d like to run something by you. What do you think? I value your opinion in that right there. It’s enough to provide me with some encouragement, to speak freely, to really assess and and really want to help. How do they grow and develop their business. So I’d have to defer to Orion or maybe someone else on the call to say, you know, if there are mentors, professional mentors out there somewhere, I’m not aware of them. And so I apologize. I’m not able to point you to an actual resource.

Dr. Pamela Williamson: [00:26:13] Lee, this is Pamela. I want to take that question and and give people a little bit of feedback on on ways to get a mentor. I think the number one way to get a mentor is just ask. Find someone that you look up to or find someone that’s where you want to be and just ask them if they’ll they’ll mentor you. Um, as far as where to look for mentors, look in your existing network. Uh, there are women owned business entrepreneurs who want to give back. So between looking at in your existing network or joining a new network, those are great ways to find people. There are, you know, we West has a national black pitch competition. And part of that competition is you get assigned a mentor. And so that’s another good way is to look for offerings where they are assigning mentors to you. But I think the number one way is to find someone that you admire in a position you aspire to be in and ask them. Orion I know you went through the National black business pitch.

Orion Brown: [00:27:28] I did. I did. Yes. Um, you know, I have a I what I would say is a little bit of a hot take on mentorship, um, and that I think people are a little bit fatigued on the traditional sense of mentorship, particularly the corporate sense of it, right? So, you know, in corporations over the last couple of decades, I’ve definitely seen numerous angles and ways in of trying to sort of forcibly matchmake people. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. It’s hit or miss. And I think particularly within the entrepreneurship realm, it’s also a very similar thing. I think getting the exposure and broadening your network, um, to more people through programs, through sort of more official channels just gives you a better opportunity to find someone that you might click with. But I think the second thing here, that’s a little bit of a hot take coming out of COVID. People are tired. And so when you say, Hey, I would love for you to be my mentor, that’s a whole nother job in their minds. So I think, you know, in terms of what I would recommend in terms of approach is one, don’t necessarily think of it as a, okay, so this is a person I have to talk to every month. Sometimes it’s a matter of saying like and I think this was said earlier, like, Hey, I really respect your opinion. I have this particular business challenge. I’d love to bounce some ideas off of you. That in and of itself as a moment is mentorship.

Orion Brown: [00:28:56] It doesn’t have to be that. Now we have a meeting every three weeks and I sit down and I take you through the latest and you tell me what I should be doing with my business. And so if you provide that, if you if you give it that flexibility, if you think of it as a personal board of directors as opposed to this one on one mentorship where there’s, you know, sort of these rigid structures, then you can start to look at the people that you’ve connected with. And it’s totally fine to say, you know, maybe you’ve gone through the national pitch competition and you say, Hey, you are a great mentor for my 92nd pitch. I would love to be able to stay connected with you. Are you cool with that? And just, you know, put that out there, allow the person to opt in or opt out and then how that what that actually ends up looking like is coming back over time, whatever it is that you wanted to connect with them on, maybe you find that they’re very creative. Maybe you find that they’re they have an amazing network. That’s when you come back around and say, Hey, I know you have an amazing network. You’re such a great connector. You were really generous previously. I’m looking for this. Is there anyone in your network that would make sense and do you have any recommendations on how to approach them with that? And that’s a beautiful, finite conversation that you can have.

Orion Brown: [00:30:13] And the next time you actually need that type of help and that type of support, you can you can have that conversation with them. You may have somebody who’s in a completely different industry and you go, Well, I go to Susan for this, but I go to Janet for that because they have different networks, so they have different skill sets. So I prefer to think of it as a personal board of directors and developing those relationships and not making it so formal and rigid that it feels like it’s a bit of a schlep for a better term, right? Like giving it something that has breathing room. In terms of the question of what do I expect from the people that I mentor, there’s usually three things. One, I want you to come prepared and know what it is that you’re asking for because it’s work to dig out of a person what it is that they need. Now, if their need is, I don’t know what I need, can you help me figure that out? That’s actually a really clear and very complete question. We can work together to do that. But it’s when a person comes and says, okay, so I’m talking to you. And you just kind of get that dead silence. I think a lot of that does come from that obligatory, structured, okay, this person is my mentor, so I have to show up and give them face time. But when you make it very clear and very specific, this is a challenge I’m running into or I have this actually really big win and I want to know how to like make it even bigger.

Orion Brown: [00:31:34] Those are some really clear questions that you can come in with upfront. The other thing is, is do your homework. Just like if it were a manager. Now, I’m not managing you, I’m not managing your business. But before you come to a manager, typically in a corporate setting or even in an entrepreneurial one, you kind of do your homework and say, okay, this is the challenge. This is the problem. I have some initial ideas. I did some research. I’m thinking these three things might be the way that I want to go, but I don’t know which two to choose from. That’s going to make the conversation more productive. And then for me, it’s just going to make it easier for me to give you my time freely because I know she popped 45 minutes on my calendar. I already know that she’s going to have clear topic. We’re going to you know, I’m going to be able to pour in and give her what she needs and she’s going to be able to come out and go do something with that. And that’s the third thing. Taking the advice you get. Now, mind you, not everybody’s advice is going to be right for your business. It’s not going to be granular and nuanced. Ultimately, you have to make those choices. But. I would say some of the harder mentorship situations that I’ve been in is when people have come back time and time again with the same issue, not taking the advice they’ve been given.

Orion Brown: [00:32:51] So this is where you need to be able to come in and say, I heard what you said, this is why I’m not doing that. Help me think through that, because if you’re still having the same problem and you’re asking everybody to help you, but you’re not willing to make those any of those steps, that’s just going to shut down, you know, that that flow of insight and support because people won’t feel like their voices are being heard or valued and that’s not the way to go. So those are the things that I really look for in a mentee. And, you know, classically people say, oh, well, you know, what are you giving back to the mentor? I personally give of myself as a gift. It is not meant to be. I don’t think it necessarily has to be, you know, sort of bilateral exchange. If I get something out of it, I should be getting out of it. The fact that I get to pass forward something somebody else poured into me. So that’s how I kind of think about that. And I would be a little bit cautious of folks who are like, Well, you got to make it worth my time for me to be your mentor. That that makes me that gives me a little bit of trepidation there. But that’s how I think about it. Hot take.

Lee Kantor: [00:33:54] Hot take. Now, do you have any advice for the new entrepreneur, especially somebody that might have been coming from a corporate environment and it’s the first time they’re in kind of this Eat what you kill world of entrepreneurship.

Orion Brown: [00:34:10] Now there is eat what you kill in corporate too. But I get what you’re saying there. I think the biggest thing is you’re going to come in with an amazing foundation of what a scaled business looks like. So all bets are off because that’s not what it looks like when you’re creating it from seed. When you’re creating it from the dirt and figuring out and getting that root system in place. So be willing to learn from people, break paradigms. Um, you know. Overstep some of the things that have been, well, this is how we did it here, and be willing to reinvent and be really innovative. Your product or service doesn’t have to be the innovative thing. Sometimes it’s how you get it made and how you get it done that the innovation really comes in. And so being willing to have that flexibility and if you don’t think that way, find someone who does and do that mentorship process of saying like, Hey, I’ve got this idea, I know how to do this for $500 million, how do I get this done on $5, $5, you know, and let them bounce things off of you. And then that’s when you bring in sort of your okay, so the watch outs, I know some of the pitfalls I’ve seen are in these areas. So let me go ahead and de-risk those and think about the contingencies and the opportunities around them. But the key here is to really be flexible because the way you did things in that structured corporate environment with the scale, with the resources, with the ingrained infrastructure culture is not what you’re going to have when you’re just starting out to create it for yourself.

Lee Kantor: [00:35:51] Now, Holly, do you have a take on this?

Holley Joy: [00:35:55] I don’t only because the as a new business I, I don’t have any experience in that. And so I agree with everything that Orion has said, but nothing to add.

Lee Kantor: [00:36:08] But you haven’t seen people come to you as entrepreneurs that might have a great resume from a corporate background, but they just aren’t ready yet. To be an entrepreneur to serve you or the firms you’re working with.

Holley Joy: [00:36:23] Well, yes, I’ve seen I’ve seen that where but it’s not necessarily that they’re not ready. It’s it’s in a lot of cases that we as an entity are not ready to accept their newness into their entrepreneurship, if that makes sense. So, for instance, there are certain areas within our business that there are required to they would like to have 3 to 5 years experience, notwithstanding that someone might have 20 years experience having worked for someone else, but as a business entity solely operating on their own. Sometimes it doesn’t meet the internal criteria then that’s not across all industries, but certainly that I’ve seen that happen where it has nothing to do with the business not being ready. It’s the internal infrastructure that is not able to accommodate for that particular industry or what we’re sourcing for in the moment. To that, I would say again, it’s flexible. Every situation is different, but also that the business owner would would would have to be understanding and know that that is the criteria for some of the utilities or at least some of the larger corporations.

Dr. Pamela Williamson: [00:37:39] And that’s a really great point. Just understanding that the access that you may have had in a corporate environment, you will not necessarily have by definition of being a new player. And even with that, I would urge people to take creativity into account, right? So if you find a partner that you think could be a really good positive partner and they are interested in you, but you just don’t meet sort of the letter of what they have in their, you know, their criteria. This is where you start getting creative.

Dr. Pamela Williamson: [00:38:10] Maybe you partner with a business that’s been an older business that does a broader thing and you use that as a way in. So you, you know, the the business offers, you know, 360 degree services and you offer a certain niche service under that. Can you do a subcontract partnership where you work with this larger business that’s been around a little bit longer and they subcontract out some of that work to you that gives you more of a resume for the business, right? So you’ll you’ll have more access to, I would say, heavy hitting partners without having the direct risk on either side of the fence. And you can start to show like that collective experience of having done these things. This is the same chicken or egg that, you know, oftentimes young people will talk about. They want me to have experience, but I need to get experience in order to have the experience to get the experience. And so finding ways that are creative to get those pieces in place is going to be key. And of course, you can’t get creative with a partner that just isn’t interested in you. So that’s, you know, that’s sort of the dating advice right there, just not that into you go find a partner that is interested in being creative and figuring out ways to to work within the systems that are in place or to stretch those systems in such a way that you can get your foot in the door, perform with excellence, and then begin to prove yourself so that you can stay in the game.

Lee Kantor: [00:39:37] Yeah, I think that’s a great point. And I think that’s where associations like Quebec West and other business associations really give a young person an opportunity to take, to volunteer, take leadership roles and demonstrate and learn right in front of other people that they might be interested in doing business with down the road where it isn’t. They might not have the skills today, but if they step up, volunteer, take a leadership role, they’re demonstrating the will and desire to be that person. Now is there for anybody. Is there any piece of advice that you would give that person may be coming out of school today to kind of build their career, whether it’s being an entrepreneur or just build a successful career? Is there anything that you would recommend they do today as it is kind of getting close to graduation time for a lot of folks?

Holley Joy: [00:40:42] You know, Lee, if I might. And this is this is a very real situation. For me right now, being that I’m about to my son is about to graduate from high school and he is interested in businesses and business administration with a concentration on entrepreneurship. And I think that his thought is it’s just going to go 0 to 60, that he’s going to come out of school and he’s going to be this entrepreneur and he’s going to be successful. And so I’ve had conversations with him about how to prepare for that, that between now and and his successful entrepreneurship, there’s going to be a whole bunch of life happening. And there were things that I’ve been telling him that he needs to concentrate on. He needs to get out and work within whatever industry so that he can begin to understand the natural relationships that occur between a business and a client or a customer. He needs to be able to know how to network and present himself as an entrepreneur. But before being an entrepreneur, just how to network socially, I think that there is some in some ways a disadvantage to technology in this space, because I think that a lot of our younger people are forgetting about the very personable aspect of business and that everything can be done online.

Holley Joy: [00:42:06] And as Orion mentioned earlier, everybody is over the top about AI, and I’m not saying that it’s not those are not good tools or that technology is a bad thing. I’m simply saying that businesses and entrepreneurs need to continue to understand how to present themselves personally and socially to market themselves their business in order to get to where they’d like to be. So I would say to any new entrepreneur, you know, study that technology is a great thing, making sure that you have all of the tools that businesses or your competitors are offering, you know, having your websites up, having your marketing structure, having your financial plans and your business, you know, outlook and your business plans ready and solid. And to keep revisiting that all with a mind towards you still have to get out there and personally network so that people can get to know you as they get to know your business. All of the traits that you have, the great characteristics that you have for integrity, personability stick to itiveness, tenacity. Those are the same traits that anyone that’s seeking to do business with you would like for you to display.

Lee Kantor: [00:43:25] All right. Before we wrap up, Orion, could you share kind of your ideal customer and the best way for them to get Ahold of you?

Orion Brown: [00:43:34] Sure. So black travel Box is, as you said, a personal care products company focused specifically on travelers of color. We’re inclusive, so we formulate for a wide variety of hair textures and skin tones. I am a big proponent of saying that the beauty aisle is broken and we all should be trying different products and seeing what works best for us. So I invite you to check out the brand. We’re at Black Travel Box.com. We’re also at literally Ampersand or not Ampersand, the at symbol at Black Travel Box on all social platforms. And you can also find us until the end of May on the iPhone women platform. We are running currently running a crowdfunding campaign to get us ready to move into the hospitality space and work with hotels.

Lee Kantor: [00:44:28] And Holly, what could we be doing for you? What do you need more of?

Holley Joy: [00:44:33] Um, I think that we need more of just African-American women owned businesses. If you are providing products or services in the areas of construction, engineering, any discipline, even promotional products, janitorial services, anything that makes a business run, I’d certainly ask you to look at Liberty Utilities just to get to know the company, and that would be at Liberty utilities.com. And if you would like to get in contact with me specifically, you can reach me at Holly. Holly Joy at Liberty utilities and that’s utilities.com.

Lee Kantor: [00:45:21] Well Pamela. What a show. You learn anything today? I learned a lot today. And I just want to thank both our guests for participating. And I want to give out a quick shout out to Orion’s product. I can honestly say I do not travel anywhere that requires me to pack a suitcase without putting my black box in it. I love the products. I specifically love the shampoo bar. So thank you so much for creating this product for African American women. It’s fantastic. And Holly, thank you for sharing your knowledge and your expertise. It was a great show. I think our listeners walked away with lots of great information. And so we appreciate you spending your time with us today. All right. Well, that’s Thank you. Well, that’s a wrap for Women in Motion this week. This is Lee Kantor for Dr. Pamela Williamson. We’ll see you all next time.