Sharon Cline: [00:00:07] Coming to you live from the Business RadioX studio in Woodstock, Georgia. This is Fearless Formula with Sharon Cline.

Sharon Cline: [00:00:18] Welcome to Fearless Formula on Business RadioX, where we talk about the ups and downs of the business world and we offer words of wisdom for business success. I am Sharon Cline, your host, and today in the studio I’ve got two really interesting people. I’ve got my favorite Front Porch Advisor. This is Joe Cianciolo. He is the human capital strategist with Front Porch Advisors. And we also have Brendon Canale, who is the general manager with Diesel David, which is an auto repair shop. Is that the best way to say it? Auto repair shop in Diesel.

Brendon Canale: [00:00:50] Diesel Specialty Specialty shop in downtown Woodstock.

Sharon Cline: [00:00:53] Oh, I’m so glad I asked you how to say that correctly. I would have butchered it. Thank you for coming on the show.

Brendon Canale: [00:00:57] Of course.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:00:58] Happy to be here, as always.

Sharon Cline: [00:01:00] I’m so happy to chit chat with you because we’ve got a really interesting show today. And I know we talk a lot about business owners and how they manage their natural inclination to have fear and how they can manage and work with themselves to even learn and help other people who want to have their own businesses. But what’s cool about you guys is that you all kind of have a almost like a relationship where you can help, where Joe helps Brendan to understand the positives and negatives of his personality type and how he can work with those positives and quote unquote negatives, I guess, to, to further your self in business. So it’s fascinating to me because I think every one of us has obviously we all have our own personalities, but it’s very easy for me to look at myself and say, Well, here are my weaknesses and I can’t do that. And here’s an excuse for why this doesn’t work. And oh my gosh, I’m so horrible when I have days like this, but I like that you’re spinning. It’s not even a spin. It’s a reframing of allowing myself to accept that I have maybe the light side as well as the dark side that I can work with both. Right? So I don’t have to have something that’s like such a I can look at myself in a positive way, I guess is what I’m trying to say. Man, it took me forever to get that out. So what do you think about what I just said?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:02:18] Well, I’m excited because when you say fearless formula, of course, that’s we talked about this earlier, but everybody needs to know what their fearless formula is. And in our business at Front Porch Advisors, we believe that awareness and acceptance of who you are or what you bring at your best and what you need to be at your best is the formula to overcome the fear. And when we say who you are and what you bring, that means good, bad and ugly. And so yesterday we had the fortune of sitting in a room full of business owners and local business professionals talking about vulnerability. And the question was to provoke what is your strength that sometimes gets you in trouble? So I’m excited to be here today to talk more about the double edged sword, because here at Front Porch Advisors, our philosophy is that the same thing that makes you strong under pressure or stress or extreme challenge becomes your nemesis. Hence the double edged sword. And Brendan has graciously come to sit here because sometimes it’s hard for people to understand what that means to get there. And Brendan has fully gone into the realm of awareness and acceptance and now we practice all the time.

Sharon Cline: [00:03:37] So I think it’s really interesting that you have you’ve kind of gone through the process. It’s not like in the beginning steps. You’ve gone through the process with Joe and have seen positive changes in your relationships with work, and I’m sure it’s exponential with other relationships. What was it that made you realize that you really needed some coaching in a way to reframe how you view your positives and negatives of your personality?

Brendon Canale: [00:04:03] Yeah, so I was stuck back in the day, you know, I’m pretty old, so I was stuck and, you know, I came to Joe and fresh out of a relationship in a dark place, you know, And Joe was like, you know, who’s this kid, you know, down to coach me? But, you know, kind of, kind of unsure. Don’t don’t blame him.

Sharon Cline: [00:04:21] And he’s open. He’s open to people and.

Brendon Canale: [00:04:25] Exactly, exactly. And so we we worked through it. And, you know, my greatest superpower is I care. And my biggest downfall is I care. So I you know, I come in and, you know, first of all, I’m going to want to say yes. So you’ll hear me say yes and then you’ll hear me backtrack and be like, okay, wait a second. And then second of all, you know, whenever I have the ability to give you care, you know, I thrive whenever it’s expected. I struggle. And, you know, working through that understanding that and then using that not only professionally, but with my friends. Relationships. It’s helped, you know, now, now we’re in a successful place.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:05:08] I’m going to turn into Sharon and ask the question because do it, do it. But like she said, you’ve been through the process, but we’re still in it. Why are we still in it?

Brendon Canale: [00:05:17] There’s always room for development. You know, I’m working through some big things with my job and understanding, you know, how to go from where I’m at now to the next level. You know, it requires some advice, some coaching, some guidance so that I can be calculated in my approach and not just like come in guns a blazing reactionary. Exactly. Be calculated. So that’s.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:05:41] It’s interesting. I like it because somebody like Brendon and his tendency to care, it’s interesting how that works externally and internally because it’s more natural for him to provide that care externally. So internally he doesn’t know, always know how to provide that care for himself. That is very common for a lot of people who have that same double edged sword. Yeah, so.

Brendon Canale: [00:06:04] Today I had to force myself to do things for myself, care for myself. So I went to Joe that wasn’t forced. That was something that I know I need to do. But going to.

Sharon Cline: [00:06:13] Joe, going to Joe is a form of care for.

Brendon Canale: [00:06:15] Yourself. Yes, it is a form of care for myself. After that, I went and started taking care of things for myself because what I’ll do is somebody tells me they need my help. I’m out doing that. Like my needs don’t matter. I want to help somebody else. And so today I had to focus on taking care of myself, doing things for myself, which is something that Joe has helped me with because I did not do that well.

Sharon Cline: [00:06:36] I think when you’re a giver and I tend to give as well is and when you had said the expectation, when you set that expectation, then it’s there’s not even a discussion about whether or not you’re going to come and do what because you did it once. So now you’re going to do it again. I get resentful very fast, but I but I did it to myself. I set the precedent like I set the pattern, the expectation. So it’s something I’m working on as well. And I can imagine in your business as well, when you’ve got people coming asking you to help and can you fit me in? Can you do this or that? Well, you want to help. Naturally. This is your job, right? But then you have to be careful if you over promise or something.

Brendon Canale: [00:07:14] Boundaries.

Sharon Cline: [00:07:15] Well, that’s a nicer way to say it.

Brendon Canale: [00:07:17] Setting boundaries. Because the answer is yes. I want to help you, but here’s how you can help me Help you and knowing to communicate.

Sharon Cline: [00:07:25] Are you so proud of them?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:07:26] I’m so proud.

Brendon Canale: [00:07:29] I’m proud to take the mic, you know. But it’s hard. Yeah. You know, and when to when to ask for help. Help me care which I can see it in you. You care. And so let me ask you a question. Okay. Here we.

Sharon Cline: [00:07:44] Go. Let me ask you. Wait a minute. This I asked the questions on this show.

Brendon Canale: [00:07:47] This is Brendan’s ready. Okay, I’m ready. So I’m ready. So whenever somebody expects you to care and you feel like it’s been pushed on you, how hard do you pull back that care?

Sharon Cline: [00:08:00] I don’t. Don’t. I don’t. I push. I go into it more. I’m like, oh, okay. Will you expect this of me? I can’t let you down, but there’s.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:08:07] Always a trade off. You pull the care from yourself even further in thinking that you’re providing more care for them and digging harder. But actually you’re not providing the greatest level of care that you possess. Naturally.

Sharon Cline: [00:08:21] Yes. True. Because I’m not. Because it’s not about me so much in my mind, it’s more about, okay, well, this is what you need. Here I come. You need, you need me. You even came to me and asked me. So of course. So I don’t think about what it’s costing me so much as as much as I’m thinking about what I’m giving you, which maybe it isn’t 100%, but.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:08:42] It also is what Brendan said and what got me so excited was him understanding and acknowledging like, Yes, I want to help, but help me make sure that I’m helping you. And that’s one of the things that it’s a tool that we’ve gone through, setting those parameters in a dialog that you have to practice because it’s not natural for you to think it that way. Your natural inclination is to say, Sure, I’ll help. Instead of saying no, I would rather provide you with the best help and the best care for you, so I need you to help me with that. I need you to set that.

Sharon Cline: [00:09:16] So the question so if someone were to come to me and say, Can you please help me, my question back to them is what is the best help that I can give you that what you mean.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:09:25] Sure that can help? Or if you feel the need to want to say yes, out of obligation is to say, what is it that would be an opportunity for you to help as opposed to an obligation. So you say, okay, I am most likely to want to help when I know X, Y, and Z. So that’s where those parameters, that’s where those barriers or boundaries come in, because then at that point, you’ve flipped it from an expectation to an opportunity.

Sharon Cline: [00:09:50] Opportunity, right? Completely different energy behind that. Wow.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:09:54] That’s why I’m so proud.

Sharon Cline: [00:09:55] Are you so proud? Well, that’s so.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:09:58] Awesome when we talk about Fearless formula. That’s why I really got excited about today of trying to to pair these two is you can hear in Brendan Brendan and I are going through a little bit of an exercise here because he’s learned so much and we’ve been practicing and we’re going through the entire program together. And now I hear him sharing that out and not being afraid. So overcoming that fear of thinking, I just have to do it. No, he wants to help others around him, which is part of his care mechanism. Yes. But it’s the opportunity care mechanism, knowing that when you use his formula, when he uses his formula, then it is exponentially more effective.

Sharon Cline: [00:10:38] Because he’s protecting himself as well. He’s not coming at an expense of yourself.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:10:44] Well, that’s the trade off that we want to keep healthy at the expense of you is not healthy. Brendan What happens to you when you don’t consider your own health? When providing care for someone else?

Brendon Canale: [00:10:55] We go downhill, you know, dark places. But, you know, then I have to take a step back, you know, find my peace. I usually, you know, I’m a person that likes to be around people. I’m a nurturer. I care. I want to be with my people. Um, but I have to step away. I have to ground myself. I choose to go to the top of a mountain at midnight and stay there all night. Um, that’s me. And, you know, find my peace, find my ground ness, and then come back whenever, you know, I’ve healed. And then I can handle. Right. You know, helping with everybody.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:11:27] And when you scale out, which. Depending on your wiring. Some people are wired for very day to day and some people are future. Just what he explained about getting away going on top of the mountain. Even that little bit of time will energize him enough that when he comes back down, that ability to care is fueled by inner energy. If you take that away, like we talked about earlier, if the trade off is is is pulling your energy, then you’re not going to have the fuel in your tank to actually get the job done. Like you might be limping along. And that’s not a that’s not you at your best. You at your best is, oh, my gosh, watch me, watch me. Come care. I am so good at providing care.

Sharon Cline: [00:12:10] So I’ve heard the notion of boundaries are loving. They seem mean, but they’re loving. And I think for me, that’s always been a big challenge for myself to be able to say, I see that you need me, but I can’t give that to you right now because I need I need to take care of myself for a little while. It feels like I’m in the face of someone needing me saying no. And that is so counterintuitive to my wiring, I believe. And but I do get the notion of being able to be quiet in myself and give like, my spirit what it needs so that I’m not resentful, because that’s that’s a big theme, I think, for me. Have you found the same in your relationships or with work? Yeah.

Brendon Canale: [00:12:50] You know, I am so inclined to want to help and care, so I. I’ll lead with, Hey, if you can’t find anyone else, I’ll help you. But I have other things I need to do. And this isn’t professional. It’s more personal. But I have other things I need to do. So if you can find someone else, like I need to go do these things. If I have to, you know, make some space, I can come help you. And, you know, setting that boundary of, hey, like, yes, I’m here as a resource. If you absolutely need me, please explore another option.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:13:21] Do you hear how, though? It’s it’s kind of one of those things where he’s keeping himself grounded in the fact that he will care but not overcorrecting. He’s staying really grounded in the fact that, hey, you know, I have to care for myself, that in order for it to be a fearless formula, it has to be practiced. It has to be You have to constantly be aware in this moment, am I obligated or am I opportunity?

Sharon Cline: [00:13:46] What would overcorrecting look like in that scenario?

Brendon Canale: [00:13:50] Brendon overcorrecting, either agreeing and then ghosting or just saying no.

Sharon Cline: [00:13:58] Flat out no risking the feeling that this person is going to walk away knowing that you don’t care which is the opposite of who you are.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:14:06] Well, and I think the overcorrect can also look like martyring yourself by taking everything on and just kind of saying, No, everybody else out, I’ll do it until you run completely into the ground, which we’ve had to face a couple of times, where the physical, the physical health part of it goes away. And even though you anyone who has that care double edged sword can sustain that longer than most, at some point you lose your influence because of it.

Sharon Cline: [00:14:38] So something will give emotional, spiritual, physical. Oh yeah, Somewhere along the way.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:14:44] Mental, mental. And the thing that I find and Brendon I would love for you to share is especially in the business when you have customers, they can feel this natural tendency to care. So when he brings sort of the credibility and competence of awareness and acceptance of help me make sure that we do this properly, it actually grows his influence and his trust within the customer base, which makes them more likely to want to do business with him because he is being fearlessly but grounded.

Sharon Cline: [00:15:19] How often are we not grounded as a general statement? Percentage it out. You know.

Brendon Canale: [00:15:26] I’m doing better every year. Every year there’s been there’s been improvement. But I’d say probably probably once or twice a year. Right now I catch myself where I’m like, okay, I really need to take essentially a mental health break and go, you know, handle myself.

Sharon Cline: [00:15:41] That doesn’t sound so terrible once or twice a year. Is that bad?

Brendon Canale: [00:15:44] Oh, it used to be all the time.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:15:46] And that’s the thing. There is no such thing as perfection. But being grounded is being. That’s why I say awareness and acceptance, because those together, you can stay grounded and there’s going to be variables thrown every which way, and you’re going to have different personalities coming at you. Some are coming in hot, some are coming in, you know, very confused or misguided. And sometimes they’re just redirecting frustration from something else. So that’s why for us, it’s a practice. It’s something that we have to do every day and we have to give ourselves grace when we fall back into the only one side of the sword on ourselves.

Brendon Canale: [00:16:21] What I’ve learned is, you know, customers are going to, like Joe said, have their emotions. And our tendency is to take that on. And, you know, it can be overwhelming if you can’t process what’s going on. So, you know, a customer is upset because their truck’s broken. They’re not upset at me. I’m just the messenger. And, you know, a terminology I’ve used is I’m an advisor. I’m not here to sell you work. So if you come to me, you’re like, Hey, what do you think I should do with this truck? What’s going on with it? And that gives like, I love, I love vehicles and then I love caring.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:16:55] Opportunity to care, opportunity, not obligation.

Sharon Cline: [00:16:59] Opportunity to care. But you’re not obligated to care. Interesting.

Brendon Canale: [00:17:02] And so I can guide them through the process of, hey, let’s let’s figure out the your circumstances. Do you make money with this truck? Is it just a hobby? And, you know, guiding them through that and hey, it makes sense to fix it if you’re losing $1,000 a day because you’re not driving this truck doesn’t make sense to fix it if it’s just your daily driver, probably not. And, you know, guide them through that, hey, it’s sellable right now. Here’s some other vehicles you can get. And, you know, I’ll talk myself out of a large sale just to make sure that customer is cared for.

Sharon Cline: [00:17:33] And you keep yourself grounded in the meantime. That’s the goal, right? The energy is feeling like you’re not overcompensating or trying to sell them or trying to placate them in their feelings. Just a.

Brendon Canale: [00:17:46] Conversation.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:17:47] Ask him how his numbers have done since I was going down.

Sharon Cline: [00:17:51] That was my next thing is like, how has this impacted your daily life personally and professionally?

Brendon Canale: [00:18:00] Daily life. Oh man, you know, you know that anxious feeling. You know, you just get that, like, overwhelmed. I have I.

Sharon Cline: [00:18:07] Have anxiety rings on as we speak. They’re like fidget spinner rings because I live in that space.

Brendon Canale: [00:18:12] So there is a space outside of that space and there’s a.

Sharon Cline: [00:18:17] Space outside of that space.

Brendon Canale: [00:18:19] Yes. And you can access that more and more as you understand what’s going on internally. Like I can be overwhelmed and I can take a second to be like, okay, I’m overwhelmed. And just that second of realizing like, hey, this is like building up inside of me, take a breath, realize it’s happening, and then you can control your response and kind of guide yourself out of it, figure out what you need, move forward from there. And you know that that piece, like, I’m an anxious person, but I operate very calmly now.

Sharon Cline: [00:18:52] That’s nice and that’s amazing. How are your numbers at work?

Brendon Canale: [00:18:58] Um, we have, uh, if I remember correctly, 7 or 8% growth a month.

Sharon Cline: [00:19:04] So how do you feel about that? What do you think?

Brendon Canale: [00:19:08] A little accomplished. But I have an excellent team that I work alongside with.

Sharon Cline: [00:19:11] They’re very humble.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:19:13] As always. But that’s the thing. Sometimes we try too hard as business owners. If we think being fearless means being loud, bold, you know.

Sharon Cline: [00:19:22] Caution to the wind.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:19:23] Hustle, you know, push, push, push. But if that’s not the formula that fits into who you are at your best, then it’s not going to work. So instead, when you ground yourself, it naturally, like I said earlier, grows that influence to the point where people are gravitated towards you. And because, like you said earlier, you don’t know what’s causing their stress. They come in emotional because of whatever it may not just be their vehicle. And when they when you’re around somebody who is practiced and grounded, it’s calming and it makes you realize, oh, wait, maybe, maybe I can knock it down. And they don’t even know it, but they definitely are attracted to it. And that is a good thing. And it builds trust. But it’s not trust because you’re trying to prove that you’re trustworthy. It’s no, this is who I am. This is what I do. I mean, the way he says it, I love it because it sounds so professionally created. No, it’s Brendan doing the study, understanding what? That awareness piece. The acceptance of it. And this is it. I have nothing to prove. Nothing to hide, nothing to lose. Totally grounded in myself. And I would love to help. Here’s the best way to do it.

Sharon Cline: [00:20:29] What was the process like when you were just starting where you you were the first time you were in a scenario where someone came in and gave you sort of a lot of all their energy and stress and you had the tools in your head of how to ground yourself. Was it scary in itself to do that? How was that?

Brendon Canale: [00:20:47] It can be it can be overwhelming working with somebody who’s operating from a place of emotion. And, you know, a lot of times they want to be heard. So hear them, you know, help them walk through the process of, hey, here’s here’s what we’ve done. Here’s, you know, the conversations we had. And putting the the rationale back in the conversation is helpful for me. That’s where I operate best. So working through that and, you know, whenever they get a misconception or something, helping guide them, like, hey, like, no, this is what’s going on. And, you know, I just want to make sure like we’re on the same page. I understand your frustration. Like, I want this vehicle fixed just as much as you do. I don’t want to have I don’t want I will have these conversations. But these aren’t the conversations I like to have. I like to have like, Hey, you’re good to go. The vehicle is awesome. But you know, the how you handle the hard conversations is almost more important than how you handle the easy conversations.

Sharon Cline: [00:21:43] Was it a challenge to change your interactions, to be more grounded, or how challenging was it.

Brendon Canale: [00:21:52] The the process getting there is the challenge because it’s a lot of internal, it’s not as much external. Um, so I would say it’s challenging internally, but in those cases, once you become healthier and healthier in your practice, they become easier.

Sharon Cline: [00:22:10] Do you find that things didn’t. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead, Joe.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:22:12] Go ahead. I am excited to to hear him say that. And because I watch it, I get to work with it all the time and the confidence just grows the more practice he gets. And so it’s hard for him to remember as as dramatic of a difference because now it is an ongoing thing. And. And we all fall back into some past patterns. We, you know, sometimes under that extreme stress, we do use the other side of we’re.

Sharon Cline: [00:22:40] Hungry or we’re tired or we’re, you know, there are various reasons, right?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:22:44] And so to hear him say it like that makes me very proud. And I know we still have work to do, but it is building sort of that repetition and being rhythmic about understanding that being grounded is not something you can just read in a book and just have. It takes specific situations. Situational awareness where we will study it. He’ll come to me and be like, Oh, this happened. Whether it be internal with the office or whether it’s with a customer or even personal. And we then go, okay, go ahead. You look like you want to say something.

Brendon Canale: [00:23:15] Yeah. The awesome part is, is as you’re working through it, is it? And I had this defensive driving teacher whenever I was like 18, 17, and he said he called events that you pull from movies. So you build your movies and you know, as you have those conversations you’re building experience and like afterwards, like, Oh, I messed up here, I messed up here, and like, not mad at myself, just data and like, Hey, I could have done this better. And you know, the awesome part is, is, you know, working with Joe David, the owner of the company, he, you know, they both give different input and it allows me to grow from a situation, ask for, ask for advice, you know, hey, how could I have handled this better? And, you know, then next time I’m in that scenario, I’m like, I got this. I have a movie about this and I can move forward from there.

Sharon Cline: [00:24:04] It’s tools you’re talking about, like exercising a muscle, right? Absolutely.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:24:09] So be careful. We’re going to flip this around on you. Oh, wait a minute.

Sharon Cline: [00:24:15] Yeah. The thank you for coming to Fearless Formula and Business RadioX. So I think it’s fascinating, too, because what you’re doing is giving yourself a lot of self compassion. You’re not judging yourself for having failed something or it didn’t work the way I thought because I live in this space very easily of being like, Well, yeah, at two in the morning I have a playlist and I just add stuff to my two in the morning playlist of how I did something wrong, or I could have done it better or I should have known. I have a lot of judgment that way, but it’s so refreshing to see someone not take that as being the focus God, where did I do wrong? I could have done it better. You actually are just giving yourself, like you said, data or data and using it for your movie, which which makes it so third person. It’s not so personal.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:25:04] Well, just listening to the way that you said that about your 2 a.m. list in my head, I hear obligation, obligation, obligation, obligation, not opportunity. And that’s where I think and maybe, Brendan, maybe we haven’t used these terms, but I think that’s when things flipped for you was when you were looking for the opportunity in all of that feedback, because feedback is just that. The emotions that we bring to it are separate and we do that. So the thing is, is like we have had to deal with a lot of emotion through all of our time to get everybody does. And but the way that we react to that is not influential. And that’s the part that when he can say you probably, well, it’s not a video, but you I smiled because I always say it is just information. It’s not good or bad. It’s information. What we do with it is a response if we don’t think it through, if we’re not aware of it, if we don’t accept it as data, then we will react. And our reactions tend to be the other side of our double edged sword.

Sharon Cline: [00:26:08] Interesting. But why Let me ask you this. Why How much is the way that we are naturally predisposed with our personalities and how much is our parental influence regarding our responses to things and the the the judgment, the meaning that we put behind the failures, so to speak, or our experience. Because obviously in listening to you, I’m not looking at my experiences that I don’t love the outcome of as data. I look at it as a failure of spirit in some way or myself or I should have known, right? So I don’t know how much of that is inherent to who I am or if that was just like scripts that I’m hearing from parents or other experiences. So how much does that influence us?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:26:58] She just opened chapter one, and chapter one is it’s one of the courses that we have, and it is a hard course because it does look at the one thing that we all own for ourselves, which is our experience. And in that experience comes influences. And we have a formula for that where we can study that and understand if we can look at the past and understand collect data. That’s how I do it, is we look at what were those influences like, what was their role in our world? And then we have to understand that people are naturally wired even within. That influence. And it could either be nature, nurture or choice. So it’s either how they are or who they were raised to be or the choices that they make now. Because once we start to realize that all those people are in one of those areas, then we start to look for the people who have learned how to be more than that. And we look for the people who liberate us to be free. And that’s why I love what I do, because my job is to be a liberator for Brendan. But that means I have to study him right alongside him. So because what he needs is very different than what I need and I need to be that influence so that we can help unlock way more people like that, that will keep him going forward. Forward. That’s the fearless formula.

Sharon Cline: [00:28:15] Well, I wanted to ask you, do you also have do you also have relationships that you’ve had to let go in this process because they are not the types of people that will help you along your journey?

Brendon Canale: [00:28:26] Every relationship has its own unique attributes. You know, I have a lot of challenge in my life with what I do, so I look for support and I look for positive influences on my life. Um, you know, fortunately I’ve had a good friend group and, you know, relationships throughout my life where, you know, even from a young age, if somebody wasn’t making me feel good about who I am or wasn’t offering challenge in an appropriate way, then I was already going to distance myself. Because the cool thing about being a person that really cares is our weapon is you just pull back hair.

Sharon Cline: [00:29:09] Listen, I have what’s called the INFJ door slam. Are you familiar with this thing? The Myers-Briggs? So, yeah, the door slam is significant. I cannot work around it either when I have decided that I have just this is not a healthy relationship. I’ve given everything I can and it still is somehow becoming toxic to me. I walk away and I cannot even reason with myself to come back, even if I think, Oh, well, they’ve learned or they’re sorry, or they or maybe it could be better at some point. Like, I don’t know how to override my natural protective instinct at this point.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:29:43] Her is number two.

Sharon Cline: [00:29:45] My caretaker is number two.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:29:46] Yeah. Because for us, we study all of those patterns and tendencies in an order that’s most natural and we are a combination of all of them. And so his is number one and yours is number two, which is why yours is a little bit more extreme. That’s why you have the shut the door what you refer to. And so when it’s number one, you pull it back. But they’re the only ones that can bring it right back to care without a whole lot of effort. Really. There’s a formula for that, too. We we have tools for that that help understand why you do that and whether it serves you or not, and how to make sure that you’re staying grounded within that. And so for you, you you have more of that charismatic forward, you know, people and values need to put together. Yes, they must be aligned that that comes first, which is why you may not see eye to eye right now on how he can do what you just asked him to do. It’s just different. You still have access to the care. It’s just not first, it’s not the top one. For me, it’s number three. It’s not even.

Sharon Cline: [00:30:53] Oh, yeah. But I think that’s fascinating to me because I did not realize that I always thought of myself as a caretaker, number one. But it’s but but it’s interesting to think that at some point I realize that it’s too much for me and I’m able to get out. But if it were number one, would it be harder for me to get out? Oh, don’t you think I’m cold? Brendon?

Brendon Canale: [00:31:21] Yeah. Um. So somebody, somebody wrongs me and whatever that instance is, you know, a pretty chill person. Not many people. Wrong me, but I’ll pull it back and be like, okay, I’m going to go do my own thing. I don’t have to have an argument, conversation, anything. All right, I’m going to go do this and, you know, say that person, you know, shows a positive light, whatever that is. Like, I’m willing I’m able to comfortably forgive and, you know, welcome them into my life. Like, there is a there is there is a boundary, there’s a wall. Um, but, you know, as long as everything is kosher and, you know, I continue to do me.

Sharon Cline: [00:32:00] Wow, that sounds so healthy.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:32:02] That’s why I say grounded, but it looks different for everybody else. I’m I’m a strategist. I, I calculate and I remember everything. So it’s not the same. And if, if my double edged sword when I’m healthy and grounded, then I am providing clarity. I am looking for a strategic solution to a problem. But when I’m unhealthy and not grounded.

Brendon Canale: [00:32:28] Lots of questions.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:32:31] Then I do have. Incessant questions, which is also a sign of of unhealthy or not healthy or whatever you want to say. And the questions become judgmental and personal in nature, but you’re.

Sharon Cline: [00:32:44] Able to see yourself do this. Yeah.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:32:45] Oh, and I can stop it now because I have the formula. Like, I have studied it enough that I can I can hear it instantly. I can even feel it in the muscles of my face. So because I pay attention to it with all of my clients, I have to be able to see what’s natural. It’s not a judgment, it’s a piece of data. And so as soon as I see my eyes or feel my eyes pass that personal line, I’m like, Nope, that question was not correct. And then I will stop or I will say, You’ll hear me. I’ll say, This is not that. That sounded judgmental, and then I’ll reframe the question because it’s not my intent. But all of us, when we’re stressed and we’re reactionary, we aren’t intentional. And so that’s why it’s called a reaction. You know, when we’re responsive, then we can be intentional. We can even call out what he said, like, I’m pulling it back. I can give it back. I’m oh, let me stop my questions. If they’re really that important, I’ll bring them later.

Brendon Canale: [00:33:39] And that’s where I have to be careful with customers, is whenever I start pulling back that care and they’re already frustrated is I have to catch myself doing that because I become transactional. And so then it’s yes, no, okay, all of that. Instead of like, let let me let me guide you through this. And so spearheading that before you’re in it is, you know, from a customer service aspect is how I can work through customers utilizing the tools.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:34:07] When you want. Wouldn’t everybody want Brendon to be in charge of customer service because he naturally provides care. But the fact that he is that aware to be able to notice mid mid conversation and that’s why we why we think this can be a fearless formula because once you do understand that about you, you start to pay attention to it in them and you start to see their patterns and tendencies, you see their reactions as just that. And if we can become that aware and accept that it’s maybe them on a bad day, you know, who are they on a good day and how will you connect with them? What kind of communication can you use that will remind them of what they’re amazing at? Then all of a sudden you’re like, Take them on a whole journey where they’re kind of with you forever. And that creates customers for a lifetime for a business if done properly.

Sharon Cline: [00:34:56] And that’s so exciting. I mean, when I think about it, it’s like what I’m learning in therapy about observing and not absorbing. You’re able to observe yourself without absorbing the negative connotation with your reactions. You’re able to observe yourself as just, This is just how I’m feeling today, whatever. But you also can if you do it for yourself, you can do it for other people when they’re interacting with you. So you don’t take it personally and they can feel that because you can have a space of them being upset and it’s not going to rattle you and create like a bad energy that could create a huge argument or something. And then they feel grounded as well because they’re kind of feeding off of you, right?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:35:32] Well, yeah, What I would say and Brendan, I would love for you to chime in, but for any caretaker, it will affect you. But the question is, is how much? So as I always say, like for caretakers that go into self deprecation because they’re overstressed, they start going down the steps into the pit. And I always say, if you’re going to go into the pit of despair, you are naturally going to do that because you care so much. The question is, is can we stop you five steps down instead of taking yourself 1000 steps down? And in doing that, you weren’t denying who you are. You’re just reminding yourself, Oh, wait, stop. I’ve been down there before and I don’t want to be there now.

Brendon Canale: [00:36:12] Yeah. Taking the taking a breath, giving yourself a reset. There’s been a few times after, like the heavier conversations where, you know, I’m a car guy, I work at a shop, I work there for a reason. So, you know, I’ll have one of those heavy conversations like, All right, I just need to go on a quick, like 15 minute drive, you know, go on a drive, go do a lap, and then, you know, come back and, you know, that that little reset of, you know, hey, like I realized I need this or, you know, most of the time the customer doesn’t get me get to me anymore. Like, okay, on to the next one. Um, but you know, whenever you do have those heavy ones, you need to take that second, find your ground and then, you know, move forward. Because if you carry that to the next customer, then it’s just going to keep going. You’re like, Man, I’ve had like six bad customers today. The customers? Yeah, yeah.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:36:58] What did you do today?

Brendon Canale: [00:37:00] It’s not the customers.

Sharon Cline: [00:37:01] If you have six bad customers, it’s not the customers. Right. Interesting. Such self-awareness.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:37:05] Though. Wow. And I’m so proud to sit next to him and watch every one of my clients who takes this to heart and really decides that they want to make this into a fearless formula. It is so fun to hear them talk about it good, bad and ugly because we’re not going to be 100% great at it. But if we are 70, 80% great at it all the time, that’s awesome.

Sharon Cline: [00:37:28] There’s space to not be 100% great at it because nothing is perfect.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:37:32] But instead of judging that, we accept that, Oh, I screwed that one up. Tomorrow I’ll do better.

Brendon Canale: [00:37:38] The win feels so much better when there was loss.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:37:42] Dang, he’s very, very good. Are you.

Sharon Cline: [00:37:44] Are you so ready? I am. It’s exciting to see that some of the tools that you 100% believe in and know work in in real time. You’ve seen the positive effect it’s had not only in your interpersonal relationships, but what it’s meant in terms of dollars, which is what’s important here. We’re talking about in in business. So what are the other I don’t know if you call them archetypes, but what are the other main ways that people interact? Like he’s he’s a caretaker. I’m not quite sure what I am, but.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:38:15] Well, and I started it thinking about yesterday’s question is what is the double edged sword? And for mine as a strategist, it is overthinking or analysis paralysis. When grounded and used for good, I ask strategic questions to gain enough pieces of the puzzle to be competitive and solve it When I’m stressed out. It’s too many questions internally first and then externally is awful, and I will lose credibility instantaneously when I do that, which is why I had to practice learning how to stop. Then you have the extreme emotion dreamer, maybe archetype as you want, and when healthy they can solve problems that no one else can solve. They see the future in a way that nobody else can. But when stressed out the extreme perfection of It’s in my head, why don’t you understand? And an inability, if they’re not aware, their communication does not come out at all like what they say does not match what they dream. And that’s very, very frustrating for them and for the people that that work for them. That’s one of the hardest things when we’re looking at different business owners is we attract that in our business. When the owner is in that dream state and dream does not operate day to day, dream is meant to operate bigger. So then you also have a more dominant which most business owners want to be. We will call them initiators for today’s purposes when amazing and healthy and. Rounded, they actually execute and make the biggest things happen because their confidence is through the roof.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:40:02] But when stressed out, their arrogance and ability to blow up the situation on purpose because they want you to remember how bad whatever just happened, incompetence is is a trigger for that. And so what they need to remember is very few people are actually number one initiator. It’s what, something like 9%, maybe 7%. It’s really, really low. And the majority of the people that work for them are going to be caretakers or strategists, and they do not communicate the same and they don’t receive it the same. So what we’ll find with our clients that are inclined that way is that they often feel like islands and they don’t understand why people won’t get it done. They are working their people so hard that the turnover is ridiculous. And so we say, okay, let’s figure out what it is that your team needs in order to be their best and then let them do it, you know? And then who did I miss? Oh, the the believer. Oh, the believers are the type of people I think that Sharon, I think you and I have talked about this before, but you have this natural ability to believe in people and ideas and you feed off of a big crowd of it to the point where you just want to bring them together. That’s why you hosting the show. It’s like I get to bring all these people in and I get to try to find ways that they can relate with each other and I can relate with them.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:41:24] And when healthy and grounded, that’s amazing. But when unhealthy, I think the flipped sword on that one is trying really hard to force a belief and then it becomes forced on all the people around them. And man, it is like walking through glue and they’re so typically on a grounded strength, very charismatic in a great way. But that same charisma when when not grounded and not healthy is kind of emotionally explosive on people around them. So, I mean, like I said, we are bits of all of them. The question is which ones are the most natural, which are the ones that give you the most energy. And so that we don’t have to pretend to be all of them. As a business owner, I that’s one of the hardest things at the very beginning is helping them understand the best way to lead your business is through your own natural patterns and tendencies. Even though you think or have read books that tells you you need to be such and such a way in order to work. That’s not true if you lead from that grounded place, just like what Brendon experienced with the gravitational trust, the customers and the staff that always rely that Brendon is there and he’s grounded. The same thing happens for a business owner. You attract employees that want to stay there. And so I.

Sharon Cline: [00:42:47] Mean, and if you recognize what your pattern and tendency naturally is, then you can strategically choose the people that you have in your business and you just put your arms up. I did.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:42:57] I did because strategic hiring is one of the biggest programs that we’ve been using lately is to say, Hey, you need to be given the majority of the time to be in your natural best and the people who are going to balance that is probably your natural least. So why don’t you hire those people and empower them to be their best? And Brendon was one of those strategic hires and it’s beautiful. It’s glorious, It is sometimes unexpected, but it has the biggest outcome. I guess it’s the best outcome.

Brendon Canale: [00:43:31] Yeah. You asked you asked the question, what was the percentage in dollars of the benefit of the growth? And the other side of that is the cultural benefit within the company, the people, the people with you.

Sharon Cline: [00:43:48] The non quantifiable.

Brendon Canale: [00:43:50] Effect. Yes. Having a healthy place to work. That’s not like, you know, they’re stressed. It’s a job but like having a healthy place that you can work and you you want to be there and you have these people around you, you know, that continues to improve and grow, which is again, unquantifiable.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:44:09] But it also is a level of care for a team and sometimes it’s business. We always think numbers, but numbers aren’t always the only driver. We have a formula for that too, where you as a business owner or a team leader have to understand yours, and then a company itself has to understand what it wants to be and we will take people through that. So we can say if I mean obviously money has to happen in business, we get that. But if it’s not a natural top driver and it’s getting the most of your time, energy and effort, it’s going to feel off, it’s going to feel against the grain. And so if you do it in a more natural order, then it will come along with That’s why Brendon I’m happy for him to sit today because it has come along. With the culture and money just because of him learning how to be grounded and and and do his job at his best and him being able to communicate that to the team and the customers verbally and non-verbally.

Brendon Canale: [00:45:10] Yeah. So what got me to bringing that point back up is the strategic hires is figuring out who whenever you’re looking at people, not only looking at their voice orders, interacting with them, seeing, you know, maybe they maybe they, you know, fibbed a little while. They’re taking their their analysis or where you’re kind of understanding them and seeing who’s going to be a good fit for company culture. So you can continue that environment of just like a healthy place to work, as I’m sure everybody’s had that job where it’s just like the manager. Is this like super toxic or like one bad apple just like focuses on the wrong thing and you’re like, Hey, like, this is what we do, this is what we provide, this is who we are. And, you know, figuring out who fits within that mold.

Sharon Cline: [00:45:54] Um, it’s interesting because you’re talking about sort of an ultimate acceptance of who you are without the whatever nature versus nurture versus choice, meaning that we all put on the feelings that we have right?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:46:10] That’s why when people ask me, Oh, do you do personality? Yes, I do as a basis, but I don’t put stock in the terminology. Like if you’re a caretaker, what does that mean? How does it play out? How does it serve you? How does it not serve you? What’s an opportunity for you and what’s the opportunity for the company? And that’s strategic hiring. That’s kind of the big thing, is you can get warm and fuzzy vibes from somebody who’s extremely charismatic in an interview and they may have the best credentials, but if the job that is needed does not serve their natural best tendencies, it won’t last. And it’s really a formula there too. So what we always say is we we because we’ve done interviews on the front porch with clients of ours, we say, Oh my gosh, you’re awesome. That’s not the job that we have right now. But when we do, we would want you and we’ll call you because we don’t want to give you the false sense that we just want you on our team because we like the team environment, You fit the team environment. We want to make sure that you have the right opportunity to continue to be healthy and actually, you know, develop yourself and say, hey, I want to be here and I’m going to be more committed to being in a place that values me for what I bring, not just what’s on my resume.

Sharon Cline: [00:47:23] I love that, too, because the way you’re talking about it is a I am not a victim of my personality and the jobs that are out there and someone’s not putting me in the right place. I’m not so much a victim. I’m more I can take action to change the outcome, which feels so much better. Yes.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:47:43] But it requires at the very beginning we talked about awareness and acceptance, and that’s the acceptance piece. Like, you can be aware of your tendencies, but you have to accept what that means for good and for bad and for ugly so that you can say, Oh crap, you know, if I know that this is going to bring me down, what do I need? Brendan said, This is what I know is care for me. He knows that now. It’s part of his cheat sheet booklet, whatever. So he can he doesn’t even need to look at it anymore. It’s part of his daily practice. He knows how to get it.

Brendon Canale: [00:48:14] Yeah, I have my. I have my people, you know, So I have it. I have a reminder on my phone. 830 goes off every night. I call a person I care about. And, you know, it’s either a person that I need care from or a person that I want to give care to, and that’s very much so simplifying it. But that is a part of like my daily routine, making those phone calls. Like, hey, like it’s been a heavy day. Who do I need to call? Or I need to call this person? And they always just bring that light back, right? And, you know, I’m feeling fired up. You know, I want this person to be fired up to let me call them and, you know, kind of helping them through that, whatever it is.

Sharon Cline: [00:48:49] I love this because it really does give in real time what your company, Front Porch Advisors offers companies, because I’m sure in a way it’s almost like esoteric. It’s almost like you can’t really say it in a quick snippet. It’s it’s complex but not unmanageable. And so I guess I really like that. You’ve had a moment here to explain in a not just from the beginning like we did with Anna Kawa, which was so interesting because it was like the initial this is what it would be like if someone just came to you brand new and assessed. What are your things that you like about yourself and don’t or how it works in your business? But now you can see the other side of you’re not a completely different human being. Like the notion of, Oh, I have to change can be so daunting and scary. And what is this going to mean for why am I still going to like going skateboarding? What, like, what’s it going to mean for my life? But I love that you have your, your your the best version of yourself. Yes. Yes. Oh, still yourself. Just the best version of yourself. Which which to me, if someone told me that you’re going to be the best version of yourself, then I’m not going to be so scared to go through a process of kind of unpacking all of the different things that I don’t like about myself, or I have to look at myself and maybe change and but I don’t want to change too much because that seems like too much.

Brendon Canale: [00:50:10] Learning to use your natural wiring to benefit your job. So, like, I’m a service, like service advisor, service writer. I sell work for a shop. So it was it was exhausting for me when I first started out to sell work for a shop. But whenever that role changed to I’m caring for the customer. That was an internal change. It’s not something that stated that is that is an internal quiet. It was quiet. Exactly. So learning to use my wiring for what I am doing and, you know, growing from there, then make it so that I’m not exhausted doing my job. But it’s actually rewarding is one of the bigger takeaways for me. I don’t know if you guys want to. Oh, but.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:50:53] It also if you notice because he’s humble. Yes. Which is part of his wiring, he’s never arrogant and caretakers are never arrogant. But as a result of this kind of work, his influence makes him a natural team leader. Which is why throwing the term GM, it is a really good fit for him. But traditionally, when you look at that title, a company thinks I need a GM that’s going to be this. No, no, no, no, no. It doesn’t have to be one. It has to be grounded. It has to be. What does the company need to balance out between owner, between other team leads, between other staff members and their company? Needed a Brendan, but he needed to be the best version of himself. And that’s what’s the formula that’s working really well for them. Yeah, it’s it’s glorious to watch.

Sharon Cline: [00:51:42] I love I hope that business owners who are listening right now. Can contact you and say, Here, here are the things that I see aren’t working for me. What’s the best way they could contact you?

Joe Cianciolo: [00:51:52] Well, we are front porch advisors.com esses advisors with an E. I am Joe at Front Porch Advisors. You can email us. You can go to our website. There’s plenty of ways to to connect. But what what I really also hope and why I love today is all of the clients that I get to work with on a leadership level, fearless leadership. I’m going to start saying that fearless leadership because Brendan has been on that leadership journey. He’s in it right now is you can see them intentionally spreading it out because that’s part of what it means to be a fearless leader is that when you know this about yourself and you become grounded, you want other people to be their best selves. And that’s why listening to Brendan talk to you and then all of a sudden flip things.

Sharon Cline: [00:52:36] Back, he was asking me questions.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:52:37] It’s because if we do that as a community, we all want the best around us. We want the best. And that is, like you said, you don’t have to change and you don’t have to pretend to be extremely dominant or extremely demanding. You just have to be grounded because everybody brings something different to the table and it’s necessary in all arenas.

Brendon Canale: [00:52:58] So when everybody sees the fake but they respect the real, so be yourself. Don’t pretend.

Sharon Cline: [00:53:07] I.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:53:07] Won’t pay you later is. But it’s coming out of him. And I get to usually when we’re in session, we’re doing the work like right now. But when we are at this point, I’m watching and he’s coming up with these gems that we it just makes me feel like I want to do more. I want to continue and I see Brendan continuing his journey upwards and the fear has didn’t even play a part today, I don’t think.

Sharon Cline: [00:53:33] Not at.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:53:33] All. Fearless formula.

Sharon Cline: [00:53:35] Fearless formula.

Brendon Canale: [00:53:37] I was ready.

Sharon Cline: [00:53:39] I like that. You say when you’re when you’re elevating yourself and you want to elevate people around you, well, then it just elevates everything. Do you know what I mean? Like, exponentially.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:53:47] Well, and like you said, you can people can feel the fake, and the try is fine. I don’t have a problem with people trying as long as they’re willing to accept that they’re trying. Instead, once you take that away, it can be a little bit simpler and you can be more accepting of what’s real and not sort of trapped or enslaved by your own tendencies. The double edged sword is there for everyone. The question is, is do you know which way to hold it? Do you know which way to use it? And can you stop yourself when you start to see that it’s it’s not the best version of yourself takes practice. Even after all these years, we’ll find plenty of opportunities to say where it’s not. But I bring people like Brendan right into that, where I will call it right out so that I know and he knows.

Brendon Canale: [00:54:33] Yeah, we’ve, we’ve had many sessions where Joe is like did this old tendency.

Sharon Cline: [00:54:39] But you know, I love that you call it even your own fearless formula because you are you have tools, you refer to it. We have a plan for that. This is how we can work around it. You’re not a victim of your circumstance.

Joe Cianciolo: [00:54:51] Well, and it’s really easy to measure numbers, but like you said, the intangible, the the culture that these words have, I think, been a bit co-opted lately. That’s what you you felt from Brandon. Yeah. When we do that, we do have tools and we do have formulas, but it’s sometimes harder for a business owner to think, Man, I really need that because they want to know how is it going to improve sales? Well, this is it. And that’s why I appreciate you coming on to help, because Sharon is one of those people who connects people she’s really good at. But it will be so much easier for everybody when they realize, oh, wait, that’s not natural for me, but maybe one of the people on my team is for them and how do I empower them? What do I need to give them that provides them what they need to be fearless and amazing like?

Sharon Cline: [00:55:39] Brendan So if you if people want to come see you and see this interaction in action, where could they.

Brendon Canale: [00:55:46] Go? Diesel David Inc Type in diesel. David.com. Check us out (770) 874-5094. I’ll be on the phone and.

Sharon Cline: [00:55:55] No one’s going to test you at this point We got.

Brendon Canale: [00:55:57] It. Main Street, Woodstock, Georgia.

Sharon Cline: [00:56:02] Well Brendan Connell and Jose and hello from Front Porch Advisors. I’m so excited that we got to have this conversation today. This is some of my most like I said, I get in my own head and just seeing it in real time, someone right in front of me. You’re different from the first time you came on the show, which was probably last September or maybe maybe August. It’s cool to see. It’s it’s really true. I guess so. All right. Well, listen, everybody out there listening to Fearless Formula, thank you for tuning in today. And this is Sharon Cline again, reminding you that with knowledge and understanding, we can all have our own fearless formula. Have a great day.