Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios, it’s time for Women In Motion. Brought to you by WBEC-West. Join forces. Succeed together. Now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Women In Motion and this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, WBEC-West. Without them, we couldn’t be sharing these important stories. This month we’re highlighting Women in Health, and so excited to be talking to Amanda Leno. She’s a psychotherapist with Thrive Counseling Services. Welcome.

Amanda Leno: Hi. Thank you.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Thrive. How are you serving folks?

Amanda Leno: So, Thrive Counseling Services is a counseling private practice in Gilbert, Arizona. We provide trauma informed therapy for clients. We do individual therapy, couples, families therapy, as well as med management with a couple of nurse practitioners.

Lee Kantor: So, what’s your backstory? How did you get involved in this line of work?

Amanda Leno: Well, you know, at some point they make you pick a major, right? You have to put something down on paper. And I was interested, you know, in the classes back when I was in college. But the more I pursued it, the more I loved it. I was really interested in doing something in my life that was in the helping professions, as well as something with decent amount of flexibility for family planning.

Lee Kantor: And when it came time to go into your own practice versus working for someone else, how did you decide to go into your own practice?

Amanda Leno: Well, I always had that vision, I think, in the back of my mind, even if I hadn’t developed the plan yet, I knew I wanted my failures to be my own, but also my successes to be my own. And so, after I accrued enough hours where I could work independently, I started working part-time, just kind of on the side with my own practice. Started slow, started in a way that felt manageable, where I could do both, have the security of working for another entity while I worked on building my own practice.

Lee Kantor: Now, how did you land on kind of the areas of practice that you’re working in today? Did that just happen organically, or did you start kind of feeling like, oh, I’m really making an impact with this kind of person, so let me lean into that?

Amanda Leno: I would say that it was both. You know, there’s things that I just felt like I was naturally called to do, maybe have a little bit of just natural kind of instinct for it. I would say that was more with working with couples. I really love working, doing couples therapy, meeting people in a place where they’re feeling very desperate for change and connection.

Amanda Leno: But I also found tremendous need in certain areas, such in the areas of trauma, sexual abuse, work with children. My background before I was in private practice, I was just fulltime a victim therapist, and so definitely found a niche in that way because it’s an area a lot of people don’t want to work in. So, doing that, it was really, really neat to feel the impact, meet with families in crisis, give them some hope very quickly. So, that was very, very motivating.

Amanda Leno: But then, it just kind of expanded from there. I consider myself classically, you know, lifetime student and always pursuing new trainings in different modalities, kind of following what the community is needing, maybe some areas that people have a hard time finding a specialized therapists in. I kind of see that as a great business model, too, because you really have to find your niche and give people a reason to choose you over other competitors.

Lee Kantor: Now, how kind of popular is therapy? Is it something that more and more people are kind of using as a tool to help them improve their life? Or like what percentage of the population pursues therapy, even if they had some traumatic event, or, you know, there’s so much talk about depression and anxiety, and things like that, is the majority of the population kind of using therapy or is it something they’re just trying to figure out on their own?

Amanda Leno: That’s a great question. I probably have to look up the stats because I really don’t have that information. But my intuition and just observation would tell me that the stigma around counseling and therapy, I think, is decreasing. I think it’s becoming more common. I think accessibility is getting easier.

Amanda Leno: Thanks to the COVID era, accessing these types of resources via telehealth is much more commonplace. I even think sometimes, you know, the next generation is seeing getting mental health help as even somewhat trendy, something that is kind of a cool thing to do. So, at least that’s my hope. Certainly there’s different sides of the coin, but I feel like it’s getting better and easier.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’ve noticed like business coaching was something that was only for a few people at one time in the business world. And now coaching kind of it’s almost ubiquitous that everybody has a coach of some kind or a lot of people have coaches. I think that therapy is going along that same track where it might have been a stigma or it wasn’t for everybody, but now more and more people have either know people that have gone through it, or they’ve gone through it themselves, and you could almost tell by the language they use when you’re talking to someone if they have been through therapy or not.

Amanda Leno: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, I think you’re right on the money there. At least that’s my hope too. You know, there’s specialties in trauma, different areas that people need specific help in. But really who can’t use someone to talk to, right?

Lee Kantor: Now, do you see a place for AI in this? Because AI, you know, answers questions and talks very conversationally. Is there a place for artificial intelligence, in your opinion, when it comes to these type of services?

Amanda Leno: Oh, you’re hitting on a very controversial topic. I’m a fan of AI. I’m not trying to reject it. It depends on what you mean. On one hand, nothing, absolutely nothing will replace a real life human to human relationship. So, that’s one reason why I don’t feel threatened by it in any way. I think one place that can really serve people is in, really, kind of acute crisis situations.

Amanda Leno: I don’t have the specific names, but I know there can be apps and things that people can access, you know, in the middle of the night, specifically around suicidal ideation, things like that, where it is hard to be in touch with a human being. So, I think there can be a balance. I think AI can actually help client care in terms of documentation, monitoring progress, just quality control in general with treatment of clients. So, I’m excited about it. I think there’s a place for it for sure.

Lee Kantor: And you mentioned kind of the unique relationship human to human when you’re dealing with someone, especially over time. In your practice, you have multiple clinicians that work with you, how do you go about kind of curating that clinician family that you’ve built? Like, what kind of things do you look for and what are kind of some red flags where you’re like, okay, they’re not going to be kind of a cultural fit for what I’m trying to do here?

Amanda Leno: Oh, yeah. No, that definitely goes along with that human to human relationship piece. Because, first, it kind of goes with gut instinct. I think we all kind of have our little senses that tell us whether or not we feel comfortable with that person or not. We’re always encouraging our clients to listen to that part of them. And so, I certainly listen to that part of me when I’m interviewing or thinking about bringing a clinician on. Certainly, there’s the particular trainings and accolades that are important.

Amanda Leno: But more than anything, because therapy is so crucially based on a relationship, I want to feel authenticity from that person. I want to feel just a sense of curiosity and humility, and, you know, general emotional intelligence.

Lee Kantor: Now, how do you go about hiring that person? Is there a way to do it just based on an interview? Or do you have to kind of see them in action, at least for a trial period to see with your own eyes how things are going?

Amanda Leno: Oh, you know, it’s kind of difficult in that way because of confidentiality reasons. So, anybody that I’ve hired has been a combination of the interview process, possible personal referrals, perhaps a colleague that I know that has worked with them and knows what their clinical skills are like. And then, it’s good old fashioned just getting a feel for the person. And specific trainings kind of speak to how they operate as well. So, usually it’s gone pretty well. Just like most things, you know, listening to that inner voice, listening to that gut about somebody is really, really quite important.

Lee Kantor: Now, for folks who are thinking about starting their own business or practice like you’re doing it, and in this field, it seems super challenging because every relationship is kind of a one off. How do you go about building a practice in a field like psychotherapy? Is it with working with other clinicians in different areas that refer to you or like just word of mouth? Because it seems like the customer, I don’t know, maybe now it’s different that they’re not, you know, going on Facebook and saying I have the best therapist, you should call them.

Amanda Leno: Sure, sure. Yeah. I would see it kind of like a pie graph of different areas you’re getting referrals from. Number one, it may seem obvious, but really perfecting your craft is important. I kind of have my own little business theory that if you build it, they will come. If you’re a good clinician, if you can help people, and you’re good at what you do, then it’s probably going to be okay. That’s just the first step.

Amanda Leno: But secondary to that, there’s different areas of referral networking resources. So, one of those would be colleagues staying connected to some kind of community. I have noticed that when therapists are kind of isolated, you know, they’ve got an office in a building and then the only therapist in the building, it does create some challenges because we do refer to each other. We are kind of helping each other out because we’re not specialists in every single area. So, that’s a huge piece, getting involved in other communities like WBEC-West or your chamber of commerce, things like that.

Amanda Leno: And word of mouth, honestly, is probably the number one referral source. I don’t necessarily think anybody’s shouting from the rooftops on their Instagram about their therapy, but that’s what people are talking about with each other in more intimate settings. So, it is a very personal choice to choose your therapist. And when you can have someone you trust recommend you, that’s gold.

Lee Kantor: Now, you mentioned the niche, even if you serve a lot of people, is it important to be kind of the go-to person in some niche? And that does kind of make you easier to refer, because then it becomes an easier referral because this person’s an expert in trauma or this person’s an expert in marriage counseling. Like they know that if they go there, they’re going to probably get a good outcome.

Amanda Leno: Yes, I would agree with that 100 percent. I have witnessed what you might call generalists not do as well, because you’re really trying to communicate to the community why should you come to me, why am I the person that’s going to be the best fit for your particular needs.

Amanda Leno: And usually people are coming in with things that they’re really challenged with. I mean, if your marriage is on the rocks, you’re not going to want to go to a provider who just has sort of dabbled in couples counseling, right? You want somebody who really knows what they’re doing, that you really feel like can help you. And so, I do find the niche training really helpful to being successful in this business.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, I talked to a lot of people, and I’m a big proponent of that as well, like I say, niches bring riches. You have to be the go-to of something, I think, to differentiate yourself. And a lot of people are just afraid to say no to people. So, they say yes to everybody, and then they become known for nothing because they say yes to everything.

Amanda Leno: Yeah, absolutely. And for that, I would say go to an intern. We have an intern program where when clients see them, they know that’s what they’re there for. They are trying to get experience in a lot of different areas with really fantastic supervision. But even then, even interns have their somewhat niches as well.

Lee Kantor: Now, why was it important for you to become part of the WBEC-West community? What were you hoping to get out of that relationship?

Amanda Leno: Yeah. You know, I thought to myself, I really want to be a part of another community that’s specific to supporting women. It’s tough out there, right? Most business owners in my industry and similar industries did not go to business school, and so we need maybe the extra support. And I just thought, well, supporting other women sounds like a win-win either way, and it’s been awesome.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there any advice you would give other women who are thinking about launching their own business, or even if it’s not their own business, maybe becoming more of a leader within the business they’re in? Is there some advice you’d like to share?

Amanda Leno: I would say give yourself permission to make money. I know that seems kind of funny because that’s sort of the point, but I’ve noticed that that women are often kind of conditioned to be smaller, quieter, not take as much space, things like that. And it is amazing how many women notice some internal dialog they have about being successful financially in their career. And so, I think something as simple as giving yourself permission to succeed, and to take up space, and to be successful is a wonderful mindset to start out with.

Lee Kantor: So, aim higher.

Amanda Leno: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: So, what are you looking ahead to? Is there any goal or roadmap you have for your business or yourself?

Amanda Leno: Yeah. Thrive, we plan to expand. We just have the one location in Gilbert right now, but we are looking to expanding to Queen Creek and Ahwatukee. Our most recent venture has been in the area of ketamine assisted psychotherapy, so we want to continue to expand on that and get the word out. Some of our specialties related to the integration of therapy with ketamine assisted therapy, making sure people understand the difference, and educating our community more on that topic.

Lee Kantor: Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you. Is there a website or a way to connect if somebody wants to learn more?

Amanda Leno: Oh, sure. Our socials are Facebook and Instagram, @thrivecounselingaz, as well as our website is thrivecounselingaz.com. Our intake coordinator can via reached by text or phone as well. So, if you ever want to get in touch to make an appointment, just visit our website and reach out to her there.

Lee Kantor: Well, Amanda, thank you again for sharing your story.

Amanda Leno: Thank you so much for having me.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor, we’ll see you all next time on Women In Motion.