learninginsights11118.mp3

: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia, it’s time for Learning Insights, featuring learning professionals improving performance to drive business results.

: Welcome to another exciting and informative edition of Learning Insights, brought to you by our good friends at TrainingPros. Lee, this is going to be a fantastic segment. Please join me in welcoming to the broadcast, CEO with WorkplaceUX, Mr. Tom Bradbury. How are you, man?

: Good. Thanks for having me, guys. Excited to be here.

: Well, Tom, before we get too far into things, can we talk a little bit about WorkplaceUX? How are you serving folks?

: Sure. WorkplaceUX is a consulting business that I started earlier this year. And we focus on Fortune 2000 clients, helping CEOs change the tech culture and their business, improve their business, and through ways making technology more efficient, effective, and promoting productivity and collaboration.

: Now, were you always in this industry?

: I was, but it was a bit of a pivot. For 18 years before WorkplaceUX, I had Labrador Technology, an IT audiovisual design and project management firm. And for 18 years, we helped sophisticated corporations relocate or renovate their work spaces, their workplaces. So, we saw all the innards and guts of what had to be thought through, and then designed and built.

: So, we would understand a corporate’s IT needs, audiovisual needs, and then design all the connectivity and systems, and represent those requirements in blueprints and drawings that had to be integrated with the architects’ drawings, the engineers’ drawings that would be “bought” by a general contractor. And they would be responsible for building out everything. And we had to make sure that, later on, the IT vendors would be able to kind of come in, and plug their stuff in, and everything would work.

: And it would be a good experience for the users of all the technology.

: Well, it’s funny you say that. Early on, we spent a lot of time providing value in that space where we had a lot of access to clients. And as technology really evolved more and more, like impacted by the consumerization of IT, things really changed. And what we did kind of got lower on the totem pole, so to speak. And we were very much commoditized, less interviews for projects, more bidding.

: Like more RFP.

: More RFP. And even in the latter stages of RFP decisions being made on the price per square foot et cetera, et cetera.

: Wow. So, that was a big shift then?

: Huge shift, huge shift.

: Because, initially, it was very relationship-driven, and you were kind of understanding what they were trying to accomplish, and things like that. And then, at some point, it became like, “How much is the cost?” This is just-

: Right, absolutely. And the attention shifted very much to applications and what was happening in the progression of technology in the workplace.

: Did the decision maker change?

: When you say decision makers, can you-

: Like, who would hire you?

: Yeah, they did. What would happen is people in and around the design and construction community would very much have input, whether it was the construction firm, or the architects being hired, or real estate and facilities professionals within the firms who were in charge of these great big important projects.

: So, you did that for 18 years?

: 18 years, yes.

: And then, you sold the business?

: I did sell it to a competitor in the space, the Clarient Group, a wonderful organization also based in New York City. And prior to selling it, for the last maybe 2.5 – 3 years, what I had noticed or started to believe with that commoditization and with the advances of technology, I noticed that many of these very sophisticated global brands were making decisions about the technology they were investing in based on the construction, schedule, and budget because these are really big important projects. They cost a ton of money. The CEO and the C-suite, all eyes are on this, “Are we going to hit our timeline?” because the catalyst event is the lease, right.

: Right.

: And when you have to be out and the penalties. And now, you’re building the space of the future, and you’re hiring people, carpet, furniture never mind the space that you pick and how much you’re paying for it. And there’s a lot of changes. And there’s so much gravitational pull to that process that it pulled all of the decision making was about this window. And I’m sitting here saying, as my space was getting commoditized and this process was changing, it was very much about, “Who’s seeing if these are the right things for this company? How are we connecting what we’re investing in as a business for my clients’ sake with what they want out of their business? What are the goals of the business?”

: Right. That’s kind of getting kind of pushed aside because somebody else is driving another part.

: Absolutely.

: Wow.

: So, I started to notice this. And within my former business, Labrador Technology, I started to market myself a little bit more. Like, to beat the commoditization, how can I come across better and in a way that’s more enticing to the end users and the people who are thinking about these things?

: So, it’s kind of you’re going back to the beginning or the roots?

: Yeah, I think there’s-

: Are you having those kinds of conversations that you have gone commoditized, you’re now bringing those back to the fore?

: Yes. I’ll tell you, and they’re not the same conversations necessarily-

: Right, but it’s more strategic and wanting more-

: Much more strategic.

: Right, than like let me save a nickel on this and a dime on this.

: 100%. And just earlier this week or actually last Friday, I was with a new client, pretty big client moving in New York City, and I felt that. I felt back in a position of being able to add value directly to a client situation, directly with the CFO and COO in a meeting, which was very different than where my place had pivoted, not by my choice, but by the changing nature-

: Of the industry, right.

: … of the industry, yeah.

: So, now, for you, the people you deal with are who in an organization?

: So, I’ll say, traditionally, through Labrador and into today, there are some pretty prominent roles still around these projects, big workplace projects. And by the way, a catalyst event could be that real estate. It could be workplace transformation. And we’re revisiting our culture and how we do things on itself. But a lot of times, they do come as part of that lease expiration in the place. It’s head of IT, head of real estate, head of HR are all involved, very involved, in these workplace-oriented projects. CFOs will get involved. Sometimes, you’ll get a glimpse of the CEO.

: But what I realized, even as I started to get to a point where I was ready and saw how to have more sophisticated, more valuable conversations for the end user, for the client, I said to myself there are these swim lanes, really HR, IT, and real estate that have the most profound effect day to day on the workplace, but all of these people were only looking at their own agendas. That’s why I call them swim lanes. They’re all really sophisticated and successful people. They’re looking right down at the bottom of the pool just between their lines. No one’s working together.

: And coming from tech, I started to have these conversations as part of my engagements with end users and really starting to see where all the misses were, where people were launching different applications and tools, but it wasn’t having the effect on the organization that was the original intent behind the investment because these swim lanes weren’t talking to each other.

: Because they’re kind of siloed, and no one’s kind of looking holistically at the whole organism?

: Right. That’s right.

: I love the imagery. And what you’re describing to me is kind of a sales and marketing practitioner with a little bit of experience on the periphery of providing specialized knowledge and content to senior level executives. What I hear you saying is you’re having conversations with the head of this and the head of that. How in the world does the whole sales and marketing thing work for you? Because as a salesperson, that sounds like nirvana. If I can actually have a meaningful substantive conversation with these senior level people, how are you even getting to have those conversations?

: Well, I get to have those conversations. It’s whether they get traction or not. So, what I’m really finding is that the bottom line is the workplace — and this is me saying this — the workplace is broken. The traditional corporate workplace globally is broken because of these silos. On one hand, these silos exist so that a business can operate efficiently and effectively. But on the other hand, they get so siloed. And even at their leadership, the top of each silo, that unless there’s some sort of convergence, ideas, and intentions, and innovation gets fragmented, where intent gets lost at the door.

: So, really, the only person who can fix the broken workplace is the CEO. And that’s my primary target because that’s the person who looks over the entire organization and has a great feel for the value of changing the organization, how it has to happen throughout.

: So, when you enter into an organization, your first conversation is in one of those swim lanes, right?

: That’s right.

: So, what I’m trying to get my arms around because, I mean, I fought this battle my whole life, how do you get up the chain and get to talk further up the chain? Is it just you have that good of a reputation or they’re reaching out to you?

: I think, I certainly have history, and I’m working on building the momentum, so that leaders who want the change and are ready to oversee the change holistically are contacting me. And, obviously, through my marketing sales efforts, I’m directing my attention towards the CEOs and the people that I think I’m going to have the most effective mode to produce value for them as a business.

: All right, okay. And this, I’m going to say it like I know what I’m talking about, it’s really more of a theory or a hypothesis. I’m operating under the impression that although you may start in that swim lane, the middle level HR transformation type person or whatever, you must be very good about exercising the discipline, in no uncertain terms, communicate to that person, “Look, we’ve got to take this conversation deeper, wider, and higher.” You have to have the willingness, as opposed to just get caught up in a-

: Yes, where I have multiple — I’m trying to serve multiple masters because they each-

: Yeah. I mean, can you speak to that dynamic?

: Yeah, it’s tough, but a lot of these folks, very senior sophisticated people, their role and the way they’re compensated and incentivized is based on fulfilling their silo, their swim lane. So, answering to them, to multiple of them, is very difficult. And trying to get to the CEO, in many cases, the CEO is looking at this as, “I don’t want to be in the weeds.”

: “Yeah, that’s your job, Bill.”

: “I have these people who do that that work for me, and they’re all smart, and capable.”

: So, you got to stick to your guns though because-

: I have to stick to my guns.

: But isn’t that easy to — I think, it would be easy to cave in. And, just, it would be easy for me, I think, to just cave in and keep the conversation much lower than it needs to be if I’m going to provide real value and candidly command the fees I should command.

: That’s right. You have to stand your ground because I’m providing value. I’m looking at a business in a way that no one else is looking at a business right now. And in evaluating how a business is communicating, collaborating, and getting a gauge on their productivity. Because you can go in and you can see some fascinating things about what’s working and not working by understanding what the reality is of using all of these tools to communicate and collaborate at a business.

: And the good news is it only takes, sometimes, a couple of small tweaks to make some really big changes, but leadership doesn’t always understand the reality of the things that are just missing the mark. They understand what was launched. They understand what projects went well, where you stayed to budget, where you went over budget. And we have to be able to go to leadership and explain to them why something is needed and what’s the business value.

: When a CEO is in a boardroom with a board of directors at the biggest, the most sophisticated business in the world, and they’re saying, “We need to attract this type of talent, and we need to retain that type of talent that’s already here.” That’s the case. And someone starts at the business as a new employee, and it takes some two weeks to get their laptop and email. How does that match what’s-

: Right. Well, I find it fascinating that the name of your firm, WorkplaceUX, each of the silos sees workplace and they’re like, “Yeah, that’s me,” right?

: Totally.

: Because the workplace for the guy that’s the tech guy, there’s a workplace for him. There’s a workplace for the HR person. They see workplace as the people maybe, and maybe the tech people see it as stuff, not people.

: That’s right.

: Right?

: Yup.

: So, they’re all hearing the name “workplace” and defining it themselves in a slightly different way. And you’re trying to say, “Hey, everybody, the workplace is bigger and broader. It’s all of us together. And it’s all got to work altogether in order for it to really move the needle for the business to have the impact they desire.”

: That’s right. And-

: And I’m sure that wasn’t an accident, right? You did that on purpose to define, so that each person sees workplace and says. “Yeah, he’s talking to me,” but, ultimately, the CEO has to be in charge of the whole workplace. That is the stuff, the people, the culture, the tangible and the intangible.

: Yeah, I want to match three perspectives or try to understand where the gaps are and better align them. That’s the CEO and leadership where they take in this business. That’s the builders, IT, real estate, and HR. How do they look at it? Is the budget what they feel is the most important thing? Are they getting that signal from the CEO or CFO? And then, of course, the reality of the end users. The stuff actually doesn’t work.

: And those are the humans.

: Those are the humans. right. So, everyone’s investing in technology and thinks it’s going to kind of take care of itself, but it’s not. And one perspective I like to bring is that if you were going to hire someone to create a game for Xbox, you wouldn’t just trust your guy in the back room to come up with it, and then put it on the shelf at Target. You’d understand what people like or don’t like about the game before it’s out on the shelf at Target.

: We need to be doing the same thing looking at our business, and understanding how technology, and using the tools is. The user experience for the workplace is the kitchen for the person who works at home sometimes or all the time. The road for the sales road warrior, it’s in the office, it’s in the cubes, it’s in the meeting spaces, the shared spaces. It’s in all that. What’s it like to work at any one of these organizations?

: Right. And no one typically is thinking of that in kind of that holistic manner?

: No one’s looking at it the way I’m looking at it from, “How are all the tools to communicate, and collaborate, and being productive work?” Because if you ask any board member, or CEO, or anyone in the C-suite, “Tell me about the people you want to hire that you need at your business for it to be successful,” they’re going to give you a list of attributes. What’s ironic is much of what’s outfitted from a communication and productivity perspective with IT doesn’t support those same very attributes.

: Wow.

: They just think it does, but, in actuality, it doesn’t.

: It doesn’t, correct.

: So, now, what’s the pain that they’re having where they’re like, “You know what, we should be hiring or talking to the WorkplaceUX folks”? Like what’s typically that symptom or the pain where they start even considering bringing you in?

: They’ll get a sense of it. Some of the signs might be we don’t have enough meeting spaces.

: It could be something that simple?

: It could be something really that simple, but, really, it’s, “What are our business goals, and is how we’re working every day connecting with those business goals?” And every CEO is looking at their business and where it’s going forward, but it has to look under the hood. It has to not be under the hood, but it has to be aware of how this car — You can say you have a Mercedes, and it’s got a beautiful paint job and everything, but if you’re putting $10 hoses underneath the hood to support that engine, it’s only going to last so long.

: Right. It may work today, but it’s not going work next month.

: Or it’s not working to capacity.

: And what happens in those cases? I can remember hearing the consultants from my change management days years and years ago, the first crowd that leaves is your high marketables. Your very best are the ones that are going to get fed up, and can, and do leave under those. When they find out the hoses are $10 hoses, they may go somewhere where they’ve got better hoses because they can. And so, it’s your best people that you lose in those situations, right?

: Absolutely. You want great talent to come, and you want them to stay.

: And you want them to stay. I loved your example about Xbox. It hit home for me. My youngest has an Xbox. One of the games does a driving game and there’s fishing. It’s got a toggle. There’s two views to it. One, you’re sitting in the car and looking through the windshield. And then, they have something called sky view. And when you hit the button — I never know what button to hit, but one of the buttons you hit, then, now, you’re looking at all the cars on the entire track, and you get a completely different view. And that’s what I was thinking of when you talked about broadening the view for people.

: And you bring up that it’s almost like a CEO talks about the business they run, how do you get that other look, right?

: Right.

: But if you’re a CEO, and you go give a speech, there’s how it’s occurring in your mind and through your own set of eyes. When someone gives you back that recording, and you watch it, how does your voice sound? How do you think you’re coming across? How many times are you saying “um”? That kind of stuff? So, similarly to what you just said, getting that other perspective is huge. And once you get that other perspective, and you start to make those small adjustments, which can have profound impact on productivity, there’s a whole different mode of operating today where, traditionally, you have something like the help desk that supports the workplace, total break fix, but we have to change that.

: Now, with how technology exists, and what people are used to, and how they want to operate and exist at work, it’s continuous enablement. So, the analogy I like to use is like a gym. The gym, it depends on you. You go to the gym, and you decide that you’re going to get in shape. You hire one of the trainers to work with you for an hour. And then, that trainer works with you as long as you want to, kind of like a break fix.

: Like I’m feeling not great, or I’m overweight, or whatever it is, I want to — boom. And they work on fixing you; whereas, opposed to what about a gym where there’s just trainers walking around, and those trainers are in charge of just getting everybody in shape and staying in shape? So, it’s not here’s how you use this tool, or here’s how you communicate or collaborate with people, and you show them once. Way too many organizations rely on that where I told them, they know, they have it.

: Now, you’re hurting me because I’ve said those exact words.

: Right, but it’s not.

: Ouch, but you’re right. You’re right.

: It’s a marketing thing, it’s a branding thing internally at any organization.

: Because you have to truly want to help them get the outcome they desire.

: That’s right, continuously.

: And then, you have to be building in systems that enable that to happen.

: That’s right.

: All the time, not just when they raise their hand, or it’s not working, or they point to them and say, “Hey we’ve got to fix Bill.”

: That’s right. That’s right. And we were talking about change management before, your experience. And I think this enablement — I know this enablement is the new future. It’s not just change management where there’s an event, and then there’s X amount of time where I help them get to where they need to be. Now, it’s enabled.

: And it’s all on-demand, and it’s all real time.

: That’s right.

: It’s not every six months or every year, we’re checking in. Like you can’t operate in that manner anymore. Things move too quickly.

: That’s right. And then, getting back to the swim lane stuff, you can’t, as CEO, someone might hear this and call in their CIO or somebody, one of the swim lane leaders and say, “I need you to do this. This makes sense,” but they’re going to do it in the context of just that swim lane.

: Just that lane, right.

: Right? So, it’s I got three people on the enablement desk.

: Problem solved. They’re able to check that out.

: And they’ve enabled five people today within eight minutes each. Everybody has to work together. Like HR has to help develop the policies that support the systems. Real estate has to build out the facilities to be able to support. All that stuff has to integrate.

: They all got to work together.

: That’s right.

: All right. So, this makes for a fantastic article. I mean, having the transcript of this audio or listening to this audio is insightful. I think it could be invigorating and inspiring. And I’m trying to envision real world walking through those big doors and, actually, trying to pull this off in a company of any size and complexity. Can you break it down a little bit, at least, on the front end of an engagement, what are some of the first few things that might happen when a company engages you?

: My initial engagement is getting time with the C-suite and leadership, either in person, or I delivered the package that they presented to the board on where they’re going as an organization. Then, I want to interview the builders, IT, real estate, HR, CFO.

: So, you’re going to all these, sort of the all lane leaders?

: Right, but this is back to the the perspective. The leadership’s perspective, this is where the business is going. The swim lane leaders to understand how they’re approaching their swim lanes with their agendas. What’s driving their work? And then, I want to go and run a bunch of workshops where I created a methodology that’s asking them about how they use technology, but I’m flipping it a little bit where we used to ask them about the — Most organizations will talk about this from a technical perspective. Does your computer work? Does your wireless work? It’s worky, no worky kind of stuff. Like, what’s going on? And, really, we have to ask them what’s it like.

: So, I’ve developed a methodology where I take them through about six prisms of experience where I have a number of questions that I interview them on and just to understand what’s it like. I’ll start these interviews off of something like this to give you a taste. “The light go bulb goes off, you have to meet with three or four people in your team, in your department, in your business, what do you do?” “Well, what do you mean?” “Well, what do you do?” “Oh, well, I have to find a room, and reserve a room, and make sure I’m blah, blah, blah.” And I start to understand what it’s like to be them doing that-

: Right.

: It’s great.

: … whether it’s using a space, or how they’re informed by their business, or how they received received training or support, or what onboarding is like at the business. And when you start to match those day-to-day realities of experience up with how the swim lane leaders are approaching their job, and then overlay where the business is trying to go, you’ll see some pretty silly things that happen in most sophisticated organizations.

: And, sometimes, you’re talking to the CEO, and then you go to the lane leaders. And then, you go back to the CEO, and you tell him what you found. Are they shocked? I mean, are they like, “That’s impossible. That can’t be true”? Do they push back? I know you have all the evidence to kind of-

: Most of them to kind of hold their cars to the vest on whether they knew or not. Some are a little bit more forthcoming about it, forthright about being surprised or not. But what I’ll say is the sense I get is that most of them know all the silly stuff is happening in their organization. Their attention is divided up into many things, and they’re looking for a vehicle or some impetus to go and take care of it, and/or they’re looking for ways to kind of find a vehicle to get their direct reports to help them take care of it, to help them change it.

: I’ve had one CEO tell me, “Oh, I love this. I want to use it as like a-” He said weapon. “It’s a weapon to keep my people from getting too comfortable in how they look at things and how they’re approaching.” Like this kind of will help them adjust and help them pay attention. And part of that is if it’s no more than sponsored, if it’s believed in, and it’s asked about by the CEO, she is going to get results because people are going to respond in that way.

: Now, once it’s implemented, now, you’re doing a lot of identifying problems. Do you take it to the next step where you’re fixing the problems or is that somebody else?

: Once we identify the problems, and we want to help them understand options for them from both a strategic perspective, as well as a tactical perspective, we might go in. And whatever the impetus might be, we’ll always identify some low-hanging fruit. Here’s how we can make some changes, which tells your employees, right now, you’re invested in making this a better business. And let’s do the things that connect to your business outcomes, the desired outcomes. But it’s also understanding what’s right. Every business is different.

: Sure.

: It might be budget. It might be culture. You could be a very traditional wealth management business. You might be a tech firm. But the wealth management firm, although, a lot of times different vendors might want to take, “I did the Facebook. Come and see Facebook,” the only thing they should be learning about Facebook is why Facebook did things they did. And let’s find out why we should do the things we should consider, not doing what Facebook did. It’s very different.

: Right. So, it’s not cookie-cutter thing that it’s for everybody.

: That’s right.

: Everything’s custom to the outcomes that each of your clients’ desire. But you help them actually kind of roll out some of these things, so they can shore up some of these weaknesses.

: Yeah. Look at these options. Help them understand what the implications might be.

: And prioritize.

: Prioritize based on what they want to do as a business and talk through what could leave them — where can we get the best results? What tweaks or small adjustments do we have to make to get the best results?

: Right, so that we can that moving the needle.

: And then help them through. And the biggest thing that happens at all these organizations, I always think of it like an idea or an innovation happens like an egg. And then, we break it up and we shove it down each silo. And it comes out it. It doesn’t look like an egg on the other side. So, how do we maintain that intent throughout that process? And that’s a program management. That has the ear of the people who know what the goals and outcomes, how they need to match.

: Now, can you share any success story where somebody kind of went through the system? You don’t have to mention any company names or anything, but they went through, and they had some change, and it made some impact.

: Yeah. Let’s see. We’ve worked with a couple of firms that actually went and hired based on our recommendation a Director of Enablement that-

: And that was the first time? They had never had that role before?

: Right.

: Wow, cool.

: I mean, just thinking and understanding how the help desk isn’t that — They’re stuck in that break fix. People who are awesome at help desk aren’t the people that typically are going to say, “You know what, I know your role. And I think this other tool might help you communicate with these people.” They’re there to fix whatever’s broken or tell them what they need to know on a tool, not what else might.

: And a director of enablement can be that dichotomy because a CIO has many responsibilities. Help desk is one important, security is very important, on, and on, and on. But this enablement piece is another thing. And you don’t want it — You want it to be almost like bringing a consultant in, someone who’s not connected to the infrastructure level projects that doesn’t get that pulled away from what’s best for the user. So, that would be a great example of where we had influence on what could be better the organization.

: And another client that just swore up and down they didn’t have enough rooms. Mapping back to some simple tools where it wasn’t that they didn’t have enough rooms. It was that they weren’t monitoring how people reserve rooms.

: Some people work like, “I’m going to block it for five, but I only need it for 30 minutes.”

: Or “This is great. Let the three of us meet every Tuesday morning from 10:00 to noon for the next six months.” It happens three times. And then, you’re out sick, and you go on. And then, we just stopped doing it.

: But it’s been locked down.

: Still on the books.

: That’s right.

: Yeah, yeah. But so many of these answers, I suspect, the fix, if you will, the answer, it’s a moving target. It’s the answer now, today. So, in keeping with this whole continuous enablement thing, that’s how and why you — I don’t know what’s right word. You need a maintenance mode, or you can’t just do this one time and be done.

: That’s right.

: This has got to be a mindset. You got to put energy.

: And we’re putting some cool ideas into more product mode on how we go in, and check in, and take their temperature, whether it’d be quarterly, a couple of times a year, to go in and help them understand where things are progressing, and where they’re not, and they need to shed more light because one important thing is I gave a couple of in-the-weeds examples of what has profound-

: Think about, I use that audiovisual example of the rooms, but if a goal is more collaborative work and bringing in people who work that way because that’s how they’re going to change their company, and that’s what their industry really needs, then it’s not an AV discussion. It’s a business discussion. And too often, when you’re in the swim lane, it’s just AV. Why are we spending $2 million on AV? Well, how we map. So, it’s really important to be able to constantly-

: And to help them connect the dots of how everybody is working.

: Well, I’ll tell you how my wheels are turning. I don’t have the work ethic or the IQ to be a change management consultant, but if I were, I think, I would want to be WorkplaceUX-certified. Almost like, “Here’s what I can do for your organization. And, oh, by the way, I’m Workplace-UX certified.” Any design on maybe taking the methodology to that level some day?

: Yeah. Different people have asked me about-

: Something like that?

: The F word that you wanted to avoid before.

: Franchise, yeah, yeah.

: Franchise. They have talked about some sort of franchise.

: Yeah, I think it can be franchised, yeah. Certification.

: I am very intrigued by that, and how we can spread this because, I think, it’s really important that I want to — I’m focused more on training my clients to think this way, but, I think, definitely on my agenda is how can I train other people whether they work for me-

: Or internally, yeah.

: Or there’s another business that finds this very useful in reaching their clients, and we train them.

: Good stuff. So, if somebody wanted to learn more and have more substantive conversation, where can they go? Website?

: They can go to work WorkplaceUX.com, or they can look me up on LinkedIn, Tom Bradbury.

: And then on your website, you have tons of blog posts, and articles, and white papers. There’s a ton of information.

: There’s a good amount, a couple to a few handfuls of articles I’ve written. There’s a white paper that if anyone wanted to have access to, they should just message me on LinkedIn. I’d be happy to share a white paper with them on something that I put together on the broken workplace, and some evidence, some more evidence and data that we gathered during a bunch of engagements that show us why we need the CEO involved to change the conversation.

: Yeah, absolutely.

: So, it’s cool.

: Well, it has been an absolute delight having you on the show this afternoon. Thanks so much for coming to join us. And keep up the good work, man.

: Thanks, man. And thanks for having me.

: Absolutely, our pleasure. And keep us posted. Maybe we’ll do this again. Maybe Lee and I will travel up your way.

: I’d love to.

: Or next time you come to town.

: Yeah, come to New York.

: Yeah, it sounds like fun. All right. Until next time, this is Stone Payton for Lee Kantor, our guest today, Tom Bradbury with WorkplaceUX, and everyone here at the Business RadioX family saying we’ll see you next time on Learning Insights.

Automatically convert audio to text with Sonix