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Unlocking Business Potential: How Ciobo Connects Owners with Experts for Operational Success

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Atlanta Business Radio
Atlanta Business Radio
Unlocking Business Potential: How Ciobo Connects Owners with Experts for Operational Success
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In this episode of Atlanta Business Radio, Lee interviews Robert Burke, founder and CEO of Sobo. Robert discusses how Sobo’s AI-powered platform helps small and mid-sized businesses identify and solve operational, financial, and leadership challenges. The platform analyzes business data, provides actionable insights, and connects owners with vetted experts for targeted support. The conversation covers Sobo’s vetting process, subscription model, data privacy, and ideal clients—companies with $2M–$100M in revenue across various industries. Robert shares success stories and invites business owners to try Sobo for clarity and expert guidance.

Robert Burke is the Founder and CEO of Sobo, a platform designed to help businesses generate insights and connect with experienced operators and experts who can help solve real business challenges.

With a background in building and scaling companies, he has worked closely with founders, executives, and investors to drive growth and operational improvement. Through Sobo, he is focused on making high-quality business expertise more accessible to small and mid-sized businesses.

He is based in Atlanta and is passionate about supporting the city’s growing entrepreneurial ecosystem.

Connect with Robert on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Overview of Sobo, an AI-powered platform for small and mid-sized businesses.
  • The challenges faced by small and mid-sized businesses regarding operational, financial, and leadership clarity.
  • The role of AI in analyzing business data and providing actionable insights.
  • The process of connecting business owners with vetted experts for problem-solving.
  • The subscription model and its benefits for businesses.
  • Data privacy and security measures in place for sensitive business information.
  • The types of businesses served by Sobo, focusing on those with revenues between $2 million and $100 million.
  • The importance of structured accountability and outcome-driven engagements in consulting.
  • The proprietary diagnostic engine that monitors operational health and provides real-time insights.
  • Success stories and the impact of Sobo on businesses that have previously struggled with consulting engagements.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studio in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio, brought to you by Kennesaw State University’s Executive MBA program. The accelerated degree program for working professionals looking to advance their career and enhance their leadership skills. And now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor KSU Executive MBA program. Without them, we couldn’t be sharing these important stories today on the show. We have Robert Burke, who is the founder and CEO with Sobo. Welcome.

Sobo: Appreciate you having me, Lee.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Sobo.

Sobo: Look, most small and midsize businesses are flying blind. More than they’d like to admit. They’ve got financial data, operational data, people issues, but no clear way to turn those into decisions. And hiring full time executives to fix it just isn’t realistic. That’s the gap that Sobo has built to solve.

Lee Kantor: So what was the genesis of the idea?

Sobo: So Sobo really started 17 years ago when I was. I had started my IT MSP core 12. Core 12 is now a managed intelligence provider here in Atlanta, Georgia, and we’ve been serving small to midsize companies for almost two decades. And what we found is that every business owner that we’ve ever come in contact has two big needs. The first is they have a lack of clarity and what’s holding their business back. And the second is they have a lack of resources internally to execute the owner’s vision. So that’s the gap that was built to solve. And Sobo is an AI powered platform that helps businesses quickly identify what’s actually holding them back, whether that’s profitability leaks or operational inefficiencies or maybe even leadership gaps. And then we connect them with vetted experts who can fix those problems.

Lee Kantor: So it combines kind of the way that AI can synthesize the data, but you also add a human to the mix to kind of guide it to the solution.

Sobo: That is correct. We’re using AI for for good. We’re using AI to get really quality people in front of those businesses that are struggling with specific issues. So instead of spending months and tens of thousands of dollars on traditional consulting just to figure out what’s going wrong, we can get a we can get a business from confusion to clarity in a matter of minutes. And that’s the big shift speed and precision.

Lee Kantor: But once they have the data, you’re still going to deploy a human to help them execute and deliver on kind of the opportunity that the AI uncovers.

Sobo: That’s exactly right. Right now, a business owner comes into solo, they answer a few targeted questions about their company. And our system generates insights that pinpoint where those issues are. And then from there, we match them with a vetted expert who’s done it before, someone who knows their industry, understands their problem and can step in quickly to to resolve it. That could be a fractional operator, someone helping drive strategy part time, or it could also be a targeted project. The key here is structured accountability. And it’s built around outcomes, not just advice.

Lee Kantor: So is this a two sided marketplace where you have the entrepreneur with the challenges on one hand, and then you have the other, the consultants or the fractional folks that can help solve it?

Sobo: That is correct. It’s an AI powered, SaaS enabled marketplace that pulls in all that data that business owners do not have the time, energy or effort to dedicate to sifting through. It’s like looking for a needle in a haystack. And if you’ve been a business owner, you know what I’m talking about.

Lee Kantor: So what is kind of so. Okay, let’s start at the beginning. So you have a marketplace. So you have to have the consultants. Are you vetting the consultants or is this kind of just a free for all?

Sobo: Absolutely. These consultants are all vetted experts in their domains. So whether that is in operations, finance, technology, strategy, leadership, you know, we’re vetting experts and we’re bringing in high quality people that have spent at least a decade serving small to mid-sized companies. We’re focused on small to midsize businesses, typically doing anywhere from a couple of million up to $100 million in revenue. These are companies that are growing. They’ve got real complexity, but they don’t have a full executive bench. They’re the ones really feeling the pressure. Things are breaking, margins tightening. Teams are stretched and they need experienced leadership without taking on full time overhead.

Lee Kantor: So what are some of the symptoms or signals to an entrepreneur that, hey, maybe I should check out Sobo. What kind of pain are they having right now that Sobo might be able to help them?

Sobo: So that’s going to be one out of a thousand things at any given time. There’s always going to be a need, regardless of who the business owner is, where he or she is located. They’re all going to lack clarity in one or more areas of their business. They’re going to have challenges in one or more areas of business. So we we do two things. And the first thing is the most important. It’s giving them that clarity up front. You know, most marketplaces or platforms, they just throw you into a marketplace and say, good luck. We actually help you understand the problem before you engage with anyone.

Lee Kantor: So is this something that once I kind of plug into the Sobo ecosystem that I just stay plugged in because like you said, I’m always going. To have issues.

Sobo: 100%. It’s like you get an Apple Watch, you slap it on your wrist. It tells you when your heart rate’s down, tells you when your blood pressure’s up. This is the same thing. We have a diagnostic engine that is looking at your business 24 over seven. It’s also giving you a score on your operations IQ. And there’s just so, so many things that we’re able to look at in real time thanks to the benefit of AI and, and quality structure. That’s what we’re all about is we’re about helping business owners figure out what’s wrong and then giving them a structured process to getting to getting those results, to getting to the, to the success on the other side of that issue, because there always is a, there’s a way to get there and there’s a way to pay for to pay for results and not just pay for advice. So that’s what we’re doing here.

Lee Kantor: All right. So I’m in. I’m an entrepreneur. I got a business. I want to do this. So what do I have? What are the steps to onboard me?

Sobo: Very simple. Just go to Sobo dot AI. You’re going to click the option for free trial. You’re going to go through a 3 to 5 minute what we call the ops IQ. It’s going to give you a scorecard. It’s going to give you an approximation of your of your operational maturity and your business lifecycle. It’s also going to start generating insights for you from there. If you have specific areas that you want to get clarity in, say finance or HR or operations, you can go into our diagnostic engine and you can start requesting those insights. You know, whether it’s 1:00 in the afternoon or as most business owners are familiar, 2:00 in the morning, waking up, you can’t sleep. What’s going on with my business? And so we’re giving them that business analyst 24 over seven 365. And they don’t have to pay an arm and a leg to get there. The second thing we do with clarity after clarity is that we’re also providing that quality and structure around the engagement itself. You’re engaging with vetted experts, not freelancers with real operating experience. And the engagements are structured in a way so that there are clear deliverables and accountability at the end of the day. Business owners don’t want more noise. They want results. And that’s what we’re built around.

Lee Kantor: So now, um, how much stuff am I going to have to download? And what’s kind of the protection I’m having that I’m just not giving this up to the world to see.

Sobo: Absolutely. That’s a great question. So if you go to like, uh, you know, pick your AI model, ChatGPT, Claude, whatever, you know, they have this option where you can add in connectors and you can add in your HubSpot, uh, or you can add in your QuickBooks. Do not I do not advise anyone to do that with their business data, because these LMS are in the business of not just taking your data, but also taking your business model. What we’ve built is a proprietary diagnostic engine that injects your company data, whether that’s from QuickBooks or Salesforce or what other, what other cloud applications that you run on a day to day basis within your company? We are taking ingesting that data and our diagnostic engine. We are we are sanitizing it, rinsing it, making sure that the, as we as we’re engaging these LMS that they do not know who you are, what your business is, or any other sensitive information.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Sobo: Yeah. You know, we’re just looking for business owners in and around Atlanta that are interested in learning more about how they can engage Sobo as really, truly an operating system for their company. It’s going to give them clarity. It’s going to give them access to experts on demand. And you’re going to be able to pay for, uh, for results and not just promises.

Lee Kantor: And do you have a story you can share about somebody maybe who, um, came to you and started using Sobo and got good results? Uh, don’t name the name of the organization, but maybe share the challenge that they had and how Sobo was able to help.

Sobo: Absolutely. You know, we had a, we had a $15 million fire protection business that over the last two decades has has spent over $500,000 in failed consulting engagements. And a lot of that had to do with, you know, lack of proper vetting of the expert and also lack of holding that expert accountable. And that is an area that there’s a lot of weakness in when it comes to owners and operators of companies. You know, we project, you know, we’re, we’re really good at what we do and we just project and we, we take people for their word. Um, we created a system designed to take the lift off of business owners holding the expert accountable. You’re when you engage with an expert through Sobo, we are escrowing those engagement fees and we’re not releasing those fees to the expert until you’ve signed off on their work product. We keep it really simple.

Lee Kantor: So is it possible just to use Sobo as that dashboard and not engage with an expert? Or is it kind of if you’re going to go and start using Sobo, you have to assume at some point you’re going to have to hire some somebody to help.

Sobo: Absolutely. Use Sobo as a clarity engine to help your potentially your internal team get get insight into what’s going wrong. And if you have resources internally that can execute in that area. Great. Give them, give them the insight, share it with them and create a project internal project to address that issue. In the situations where you know you have an issue, you have a challenge, and you don’t have anyone in the inside of your organization that’s competent enough to to deal with that effectively, simply engage with an expert on the platform and we’ll take it from there.

Lee Kantor: Now, when it comes to working with Sobo and installing it and using it, is it something that it’s going to replace, something I’m already paying for separately, or is this just another one of these subscriptions now I have to deal with?

Sobo: It’s another it’s another subscription that is going to layer on top of all the other applications that you use, and it’s going to give you a financial health visibility dashboard for your company. So you’re able to see where your operations IQ is currently, how you’re tracking, you’re able to get clarity on any area of your business. And you know, and you take it from there, it’s ultimately up to the operator, the business owner to decide if and when and how he engages or what he does next with the clarity that he gets, because we can give you clarity all day long, 24 over seven. It’s, it’s and you’re, you know, you, you’re deciding you’re in the driver’s seat with regards to, you know, how you want to take action on that.

Lee Kantor: But it’s not replacing any of the I already have.

Sobo: Uh, it, it will become the, the brain for the owner. Operator. You’re going to go to Sobo to get clarity. You’re not going to, you know, want to use the, the open LM models anymore because they don’t have, they don’t have your business persona. They don’t really understand, you know, what is, is ailing your company. But we do because we have secure secure connectors with, you know, the cloud applications that you’re using on a day to day.

Lee Kantor: So what was it like to launch this startup here in Atlanta? What, um, what have you gotten from the ecosystem?

Sobo: Yeah. You know, um, Fortunately, I had the benefit of having ran a successful it MIP for the last 17 years, so I have, I’ve had a strong network of other business owners and friends that have been able to kind of guide this product. And we want to, we want to build this product to be the go to for any business owner in that small to mid size range that needs clarity and they need help.

Lee Kantor: Is there any niche that you’re going after or it sounds like it’s industry agnostic, but have you found that certain niches are gravitating towards it? When you’re launching?

Sobo: Absolutely. So we, you know, it is, it is, uh, pretty much purpose built for any, uh, type of business. But we do have specific verticals that we’re going after, uh, on the initial phase. So we’re looking for architecture, engineering, construction firms, professional services firms, manufacturing firms, as well as industrial services.

Lee Kantor: And all between that two and $100 million range.

Sobo: That is correct. And honestly, we have some subscribers on the platform that are only doing a million in revenue, but they’re in growth mode. They want to solve their problems. They want to move forward. They don’t want to keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, what is the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Sobo: Yeah, website is sobo dot ai. And you can connect with me directly at Robert at Sobo AI.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Well, congratulations on all the momentum Robert. And you’re doing important work and we appreciate you.

Sobo: Appreciate it Lee. Thank you for your time.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.

The Pressure Point Playbook: Strategies for Leaders to Excel Under Stress

by

Atlanta Business Radio
Atlanta Business Radio
The Pressure Point Playbook: Strategies for Leaders to Excel Under Stress
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In this episode of Atlanta Business Radio, Lee interviews Kashaun Cooper, founder of the Five Stages of Yes Leadership and Development Institute. Kashaun discusses how leadership under pressure reveals true behavior, not just intentions. He explains that mental toughness can be learned by identifying “pressure entry points” and practicing new responses. The conversation covers preparing teams for high-stress situations and the importance of aligning words with actions. Keshawn also introduces his Pressure System Index tool and shares insights on building resilient leadership in pressure-filled industries. Listeners are invited to connect with him for further resources.

Kashaun Cooper is a Leadership Systems Architect and the founder of the Five Stages of Yes Leadership & Development Institute. His work focuses on how individuals and organizations respond when pressure rises.

He is the creator of the Pressure System Index (PSI) and the Responsibility Flow Diagnostic™, tools designed to make invisible behavioral patterns visible inside teams and leadership structures.

He works with founders, executives, and nonprofit leaders to help them identify default responses, clarify decision ownership, and stabilize performance in pressure-saturated environments.

Connect with Kashaun on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Leadership under pressure and its impact on behavior.
  • The distinction between pressure creating behavior versus revealing it.
  • The concept of mental toughness and its learnability.
  • Identifying and understanding personal pressure entry points.
  • Preparing teams for anticipated high-pressure situations.
  • The role of scenario mapping and role-playing in team preparation.
  • The Pressure System Index (PSI) as a diagnostic tool for pressure management.
  • The importance of congruence between leaders’ words and actions under stress.
  • The timeline for behavioral change and the formation of new habits.
  • Industries particularly affected by high-pressure environments and the need for effective leadership.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studio in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio, brought to you by Kennesaw State University’s Executive MBA program. The accelerated degree program for working professionals looking to advance their career and enhance their leadership skills. And now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, Ksuz executive MBA program. Without them, we wouldn’t be sharing these important stories today on the show. We have Kashaun Cooper, who is a leadership systems architect and founder of Five Stages of Yes Leadership and Development Institute. Welcome.

Kashaun Cooper: Hey, Lee, thank you so much, man, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for allowing me to be here today. I look forward to this conversation.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about the five stages of Yes Leadership and Development Institute. How are you serving folks?

Kashaun Cooper: Man, man, this is a topic that I can talk about for hours. And I know we only have a few more a few moments. So I’m going to give you the, um, the abbreviated version, you and your listeners. So I’m the founder of the Five Stages of Yes Leadership and Development Institute. And, and where did that come from? Over the course of my, my working years, ever since I was a manager in my 20s. Now I’m in my 40s and I, I’ve been, I’ve been seeing a lot of things. I’ve seen a lot of things. I’ve been observing, observing a lot of things. There’s a lot of things that caught my eye in leadership, things that I did, certain behaviors and Responses that I did. And I looked back at myself and said, Keyshawn, why did you do that? And then I also looked at other leaders, my direct reports of the leaders, my my peers, my colleagues. And we will have discussions, uh, prior to certain situations. And then after the situation would take place, I would go, I would go to them and say, what happened? They would say, man, it was rough, man. It was just rough. And I had to do what I had to do. So over the course of my professional career, I studied how individuals and organizations behave when pressure rises. And my work is pretty simple, pretty simple to explain. Although I can talk for hours about it, it’s not when things are calm, it’s not when things are challenging, but when decisions, uh, actually matter. When timelines get tight, the walls are caving in on you, expectations are increasing. That’s when people are and when people are dependent on outcomes. That’s where I focus, because that’s where you really get to see how people operate. And that is the basis of the five stages of yes Leadership and Development Institute.

Lee Kantor: So what happened in your life that that you said, okay, I have to now dedicate a good portion of my career to work on this challenge. Like, what made you think that you have some unique ability to help people solve this for themselves?

Kashaun Cooper: That’s a that’s a great question. So it wasn’t just one thing that happened, Lee. It was a culmination of things, uh, down through the years. But what really, really tipped me over is when, um, I was a manager for a restaurant, a sports bar, and, um, I would have my, my manager’s meetings on Mondays and we would lay out all the expectations and, and, um, when, when the manager’s meeting is over, I’m, we slap in five, we’re going over expectations. Everybody’s excited. Everyone is clear, at least from my standpoint, and even they nodded. It let me know they were clear with it. But when it was time to go back into the kitchen and when the dinner rush would come, or on a Sunday or Saturday night or or Super Bowl or fight night, when those, uh, when those situations were arise, I started to see how those behaviors and what we talked about, the SOPs, all of those things went out the window. None of that mattered. So it was that event or those events during that time frame of working with that organization that I got to see really, really close how people say one thing and do another. And that’s when I concluded that even in myself, uh, I would say one thing I knew I knew what to say. I had the right belief. I had the right words. And when, when pressure hit us, um, we sort of changed directions. And that’s when I concluded that pressure does not create behavior. Pressure reveals it. Pressure exposes the structure of the organization and of the system. Pressure exposes, uh, decision patterns and, and most importantly, pressure exposes, uh, leadership behavior.

Lee Kantor: So now, do you think that the ability, the mental toughness, the ability to handle pressure, uh, is that something that there’s things you can do to learn to make yourself better at that? Or is it some people just naturally kind of have that mental toughness. I mean, in sports, you, you see, you know, with the highest levels, like in the NFL, there’s only a handful of like quarterbacks that thrive in a pressure situation where the rest are okay, but they’re not elite. Um, does it work the same in business? Are people or some people just better at this than others? Or is this something that can be learned?

Kashaun Cooper: That’s a great question and it’s definitely something that can be learned. Um, the reason for that is what I teach. I teach clarity, I teach understanding. Um, when I was in school, um, I, I hated school. This is a, this is a secret that I’m letting out to everyone right now. I absolutely hated school, but I wasn’t dumb and the teachers would get upset. My mother and father would get upset because they didn’t understand why I wasn’t dumb. But there were certain subjects that I just did not understand. One of them being English, I didn’t get it. I didn’t understand it. And because of that I decided to. I didn’t want to go to class. Sometimes I didn’t go to class, sometimes I didn’t. Most times I didn’t do the homework. God knows I didn’t do the projects. It’s because I didn’t understand. And as I got older and I started learning more about English, my understanding grew and that changed everything. So when it comes down to mental toughness or how to handle yourself under pressure, I’m not saying that you won’t fold. That’s not what I’m what I’m saying. What I’m saying is, and what I teach is how to identify your pressure entry points. That’s what I teach. I teach. Hey, when, when, when you’re in a pressure saturated moment, um, there are six, six areas, uh, that for the sake of time, I won’t go into them. Uh, but there are six areas that tend to happen, uh, where that, where pressure tends to enter. And one of the biggest ones is, uh, physiological activation. And that for me, and it may be for you, Lea, when I’m in a pressure saturated moment or my wife is about to bring me some bad news, she brings me a bottle of Excedrin Migraine, because the very first thing that happened to me is I get a headache. So once you learn where your pressure entry point is and understand the sequence. Then you can learn how to manage that pressure.

Lee Kantor: So how does this kind of relate specifically to a situation like let’s talk about your restaurant situation. You know, it’s the Super Bowl. Everybody in the room knows it’s a Super Bowl and everybody knows you’re going to be slammed at some point in time. It is just going to be just intense for hours. And you just better buckle up and we don’t have time for, you know, mental mistakes or kind of being distracted. You have to be game on. How do you prepare a team to handle a stressful situation, especially when you know it’s coming? Because there’s a lot of times when you don’t know when the stress is going to come, it just happens. Like all of a sudden, boom, now, you know, there’s a car accident, now you got to deal with it or there’s a medical emergency and now you have to deal with it. But something like in a work setting, a lot of times, you know, ahead of time, okay, we’re going to need everybody all hands on deck here.

Kashaun Cooper: Yeah, that’s a great point. And I that’s a question I get asked all the time. And that’s, um, that’s an example, um, an exercise that we go over, um, in different workshops. Um, there’s a, there’s a line, a sentence in my book, uh, the five stages of yes. Uh, for leaders moving from hesitation to ownership. And in the introduction, I talk about how, um, decide who you are going to be first before the pressure arise. So there is. And also in the back of the book, I talk about scenario mapping and basically role playing, um, going through a series of questions of, hey, when this happens, that happens. And this is what I, this is what I’ve learned and observed in my, um, my point of view and my experience is that, um, when pressure rises, people don’t rise to their training. Um, people tend to fall back to their defaults. So it’s a default response problem habits take over. Um, emotional patterns begin to repeat, learn responses, uh, activate and, uh, decision rules run automatically. So the question isn’t, uh, what people know, it’s what they automatically do under pressure. So your question is, hey, how do we get ahead of that? Number one, we have to work on our habits, work on our habits. And it doesn’t happen overnight. So when you’re in a pressure saturated moment, think about it in your life. Think about people that you encounter, no matter how many times they said they were not going to do something, they find themselves doing it. Have you ever experienced that? Have you witnessed that? Lee?

Lee Kantor: Sure. I’ve had, um, you know, lots of times where all of a sudden there is now a high level of stress. And now I have to, you know, deal with it. I have to make choices. I remember when my, uh, mother was very ill and she passed, but we were the family was sitting almost on a daily basis, having to make hard choices under pressure because of, you know, it was literally life and death. And something that helped me during that time was we kind of made a rule that was called one crisis at a time, where we were like, okay, there’s ten things that are important. Let’s pick the most important one and let’s focus in on that because it’s overwhelming to deal with ten simultaneously.

Kashaun Cooper: And what you thank you for sharing that story and what you just displayed here, uh, during this conversation is, uh, there’s a component in the default response is, uh, decision rules. So you and your family made a decision, made a decision in the, in this pressure, pressure saturated moment in in the the face of crisis. You and your family said, wait a minute. Stop, pause. We can’t handle ten crisis at the time. It’s just that that that doesn’t make sense. We’re going to get pulled in ten different directions and we’re going to be emotionally drained. So what you did was you decided you and your family decided this is how we are going to handle. So what I like to call that is learned responses under pressure. So how do you do that? You decide. First you make that decision. This is how I’m going to handle this situation. And here’s the deal. Lee um you can’t you can’t rise to a new default. You have to rehearse your way into a new default response and how you do it and pressure saturated moments. Those are teaching opportunities for you to, uh, when a situation happened, you may have responded one way, but now, because you decided this is how I’m going to move when pressure arises. Now your response is different.

Lee Kantor: So is that what happens during your workshops? Are you kind of playing this out and giving people repetitions in practice? Under these circumstances or simulated circumstances, so that.

Kashaun Cooper: That’s exactly what it is. It is simulated, um, environments, uh, simulated scenarios where we walk through, um, when I was in sales, I mean, that was one of my best jobs, man. When I was in in-home sales or they call it outside sales representative. And, uh, I would, we were going to homes and we, I, uh, I sold stairlifts and, and safety showers and one of the things, and I was in the last sales job I had prior to that, when I was 17, 18 years old, working at Sears and Roebuck in New York. So prior to that man, many, many years, Multiple decades went by before I entered the sales arena again. And one of the things that we used to do at our Wednesday meeting was role playing, and we had about 20 sales reps. But anytime our operations man operations manager said, does anyone want to role play? I was the first person to raise my hand. Why? Because it was in that moment. It was in the. It was in those opportunities that I learned how to navigate objections. So I took that and I brought it into my workshops, role playing people actually seeing themselves in scenarios. Now they know how to respond, um, which becomes a learned response. They know how to respond under any pressure.

Lee Kantor: So, um, when you’re, you’re doing this kind of work, what is kind of a signal maybe from a leader right now that might have a problem, but doesn’t know for sure? Is there some pain that they’re going through, or are there some symptoms of a problem that maybe they’re not connecting the dots where Keyshawn might be able to help me? Like, are there signs that you have an issue, you know, that you can kind of any signal or something that’s happening so I can go, hey, this could be a problem. It hasn’t revealed itself yet. Or maybe it’s, it’s a little problem, but it could turn into a bigger problem.

Kashaun Cooper: Yeah. That’s, uh, that’s a great question. And, and, you know, just from looking at someone, yeah, I can, I can, I can guess, but I created a, um, a diagnostic. Um, I took all the years of experience, created a diagnostic, um, which is called the pressure system index. And, um, the pressure system index is a group of questions and it basically, it walks the, um, the person who is, uh, taken. The assessment walked him through a series of questions and at the end of those questions you get a report basically talking about your your pressure entry point, um, where it talks about, uh, your physiology, your physiology, your physiological activation, your emotional regulation, cognitive clarity, um, uh, internal stability, uh, automatic patterning and behavior, uh, adaptability. Once someone takes the sci, uh, we go over the results and it is quite telling and also revealing, uh, to the individual who takes the psi because they say, wow. Um, my first question to them is always, were you surprised by your, or are you surprised by your results? And typically they say, uh, no, this is what I had an idea I just didn’t have. I didn’t have a name for it. Now I can see it. So based off of those results, now we put a plan in place. So when you have that manager who’s leading the team, a regional manager, a GM or a vice president who’s leading the team, now, you have this information to help them navigate to get ahead of the train, because what the purpose of the Sci, it is a leading indicator. Um, this is what happens before pressure, uh, hits the before pressure gets out of control. Um, when it enters, let’s say it enters the emotional regulation. That’s your entry point. What you want to do is you want to mitigate it fast before it spreads through the rest of the system. So the Sci diagnostic is a tool to help us identify those, uh, pressure entry points.

Lee Kantor: And then is this something that can be done? Uh, like you have to do it in person or is this something that they do individually online? Like how does somebody take advantage of this?

Kashaun Cooper: That is a great point. So on, on my website, uh, five stages of yes. Com the word five stages of. Yes it is. It is a sample of the of the. The psi. That one is more intense. That one is more for, for workshops. Um uh, that the one I’m talking about, but the one that’s on our website right now, that’s the one where they could quickly, that one literally takes probably 30s to do. And they, they can identify, um, how they handle pressure. Is it outward? Uh, do they deal with pressure outwardly? Do they deal with pressure inwardly holding it all in? Or is, or is it a balance? So that’s something they could go right to the website, click on the button and button and it would take them about 30s to do.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share about maybe a team you work with that was able to, uh, you were able to help them? Like don’t name the name of the organization, but maybe share the challenge they came to you with and how you were able to help them get to a new level.

Kashaun Cooper: Absolutely. Um, now I, and I wasn’t going to, uh, share, Share. The name of the organization. So one of the things that I teach is pressure literacy, right? Most organizations teach us how to work, but very few, uh, people, uh, very few teach people how to operate when pressure rises, uh, how decisions change under pressure, how responsibility moves under stress, what behaviors become automatic, and so forth and so on. And once people understand pressure patterns, they stop guessing and they stop seeing. So, uh, there was one particular organization, um, and, um, yeah, one particular organization and they were having a management retention problem. Um, no matter what they did, they could not retain, um, any managers, um, they tried, uh, offering, uh, bonuses. Uh, they tried, uh, wellness. Um, they just tried so, so many creative things. Um, And what they found out is that none of them stuck. And and and, and I, I was shocked too, when they, when they told me, I said, wow, those are some, you know, really creative ways to retain managers. And what we did was I spent several days with them, uh, on the front line, working with managers, talking to them, talking to the staff.

Kashaun Cooper: And what I found out, it was one thing that a particular manager did. Um, it was, I mean, it was a specific day part and, uh, the store got, um, you know, really thick, um, got crowded and, and, uh, almost semi out of control. And what happened during that manager’s meeting, the manager said we were going to operate one way and what tend to happen, I mean, what end, what ended up happening was once, um, the, the store got heavy. Everything that this leader said went out the window. So what happened was His his his when he was emotionally sober. His words did not line up with his actions. Once pressure entered the room and he started to lose trust. So that’s what the issue was right there. There was a structural a structural problem with what he said out of his mouth and what he did with his actions. Um, and then once we figured out what his, uh, what his pressure point entry was, everything else changed.

Lee Kantor: And then the team improved.

Kashaun Cooper: The team improved. Yes. So what I’ve learned, Lee, is that although, um. Although. When no matter how. Let’s use a regional manager for this situation. The regional manager. He had his own default response. And what tends to happen when you lead a team, your leaders experience your your default response to situations. So they, they live inside of your default response as well. So if you are a person who are emotionally unregulated, you get irritated, frustration spikes, you throw things. I mean, you’re feeling overwhelmed. What do you think that’s going to happen to the team?

Lee Kantor: Yeah, of course it’ll trickle down. And especially if there’s like you mentioned before, if there’s incongruity between your words and your actions, the people tend to believe actions.

Kashaun Cooper: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So once we were able to identify his, uh, pressure, um, entry point, um, and how we were able to mitigate that and put certain systems in place, uh, we began to see a turnaround in the, in the staff because everything became congruent.

Lee Kantor: Now, is this something that happens where once you kind of everybody’s like, oh, I get it now. Then change can happen pretty rapidly. Or is this something that kind of takes a lot of time to implement and see results?

Kashaun Cooper: No, I’ve seen about 6 to 8 weeks. Um, uh, it’s not rapid as same day, but what happened same day is like you just stated, ah, I get it, I get it. So, uh, as I heard someone say, you can’t reach your destination overnight, but you definitely can change directions. So that’s what happens when individuals take the PSI and they see and we go over the results of the psi, the direction begins to change. You can see it. You can see it in their face. It’s like, ah, all right, I get it now. I, I so and that’s what you see, you see the aha moment. But like I stated before, these are these are defaults. These are habits that people have had for many, many, many years for one reason or another. So this is not something, uh, that, that changes over, uh, over a span of a day or two. Um, uh, you know, these are behaviors that have been automatic for, for people and they have never challenged these behaviors or thinkings. So now PS, uh, sy comes in and it doesn’t challenge their thinking. It just offers a new way to look at why they do what they do. So then that’s when you start seeing people rehearse their way to new defaults, um, instead of rising their way there.

Lee Kantor: So now is there a niche that you tend to work in or are they, is this kind of industry agnostic? Your work, because you mentioned retail, you mentioned hospitality. Is there, are those your specialties or do you work across industry?

Kashaun Cooper: I do work across industry, but there are certain industries that experience pressure saturated, um, environments more than others, such as retail, such as, uh, startup companies such as, um, uh, healthcare, uh, hospitality and restaurant industry. So, uh, those industries, nonprofit workforce development, uh, those are the industries that I typically work in because they are experiencing, uh, the pressure, um, you know, uh, right in their face.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Kashaun Cooper: It is w w w dot the number 5FIVE5 stages of yes.com. Well, you can reach out to me on LinkedIn.

Lee Kantor: Well, Keshawn, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Kashaun Cooper: Thank you Lee. Thank you so much for having me.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.

How a Collaborative CPA Team Can Transform Your Business Tax Strategy

by

Atlanta Business Radio
Atlanta Business Radio
How a Collaborative CPA Team Can Transform Your Business Tax Strategy
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In this episode of Atlanta Business Radio, Lee interviews Chris Edwards, a Tax Partner at Bennett Thrasher. Chris discusses how his firm serves middle-market companies, especially in technology, distribution, and professional services. The conversation covers proactive tax planning, key provisions in recent tax legislation, overlooked tax credits, and strategies for preparing a business for sale. Chris emphasizes the importance of a collaborative CPA team and shares practical tips for business leaders considering a change in CPA or seeking to optimize their tax position.

Chris Edwards is a Partner in Bennett Thrasher’s Tax practice and leads the firm’s Commercial Tax group. He specializes in federal and state income tax consulting and compliance for middle-market corporations and flow-through entities, with a primary focus on the technology, healthcare, manufacturing and distribution, and professional services sectors.

He offers a comprehensive range of tax consulting services, including strategic advisory support for buy-side and sell-side mergers and acquisitions. His expertise helps clients achieve optimal tax structuring, implement efficient accounting methods, and navigate complex restructurings.

Prior to Bennett Thrasher, he worked at a large accounting firm in Denver, CO where he worked primarily with closely held entities and high net worth individuals.

Chris is a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) licensed in Georgia and Colorado.

Connect with Chris on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Overview of Bennett Thrasher’s tax practice and services.
  • Focus on serving technology, distribution, and professional service companies.
  • Considerations for business leaders when changing CPAs.
  • Importance of proactive tax planning and ongoing communication with CPAs.
  • Discussion of recent tax legislation and its implications for businesses.
  • Key tax provisions beneficial for various business sectors.
  • Strategies for preparing a business for exit and minimizing tax liabilities.
  • Commonly overlooked tax credits and deductions for businesses.
  • Recommendations for tax planning strategies in the current year.
  • Ideal client profile for Bennett Thrasher, focusing on middle-market companies.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studio in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio, brought to you by Kennesaw State University’s Executive MBA program. The accelerated degree program for working professionals looking to advance their career and enhance their leadership skills. And now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor Ksuz executive MBA program. Without them, we wouldn’t be sharing these important stories. Today on the show, we have Chris Edwards, who is a partner in Bennett Thrasher’s tax practice. Welcome.

Chris Edwards: Hey, Lee, happy to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Bennett Thrasher. How you serving folks?

Chris Edwards: Sure. Yeah. So as you said, I’m a tax partner and Bennett Thrasher’s tax practice and I lead our commercial tax group. What my group focuses on Lee is really just all any and all operating business entities. And we support them from not only the tax compliance perspective, but also on the tax consulting side as well. Um, so yeah, it’s outside of commercial. Our tax group is made up of real estate, high net worth individuals. And we also have a specialty tax group, which focuses on, uh, credits and incentives, international tax consulting, state and local tax consulting and transaction advisory.

Lee Kantor: So are there any specific types of businesses that you support?

Chris Edwards: Yeah, my, my main focus really is with technology companies, uh, distribution companies and professional service companies.

Lee Kantor: Now talk to me about a business person or the leader of an organization is thinking about changing CPAs. What are some of the do’s and don’ts and some of the trade offs maybe they make when they are making a move like that? What should you be looking for in a CPA firm? What type of experiences or expertise should they have?

Chris Edwards: Yeah, so that’s a great question. I think first you you want to work with somebody that understands your industry, sort of the ins and outs and not just the just the tech side of it all, but just how your business operates. And then secondly, I, you know, I like to say you really want to work with somebody that is sort of planning ahead for you, not just checking in once a year, you know, letting you know how your year went. We’ll file your tax return based on that and see you again next year. You really want somebody that’s with you throughout the year. Understanding your business and sort of planning for the future.

Lee Kantor: Now, is that kind of a yellow flag if you’re working with an organization currently, and they’re not being proactive about getting together and really making an effort to be proactive. Is that kind of a situation where you’re like, maybe you should start shopping at that point?

Chris Edwards: I think so. Yeah, I think it’s really hard to plan if you don’t sort of have an understanding of what’s going on in real time with your clients. And so, yeah, a yellow flag is probably a good way to say it.

Lee Kantor: Now, when it comes to this year’s tax planning, is there anything, um, that we should be paying attention to as we move into the 2026 year?

Chris Edwards: Yeah, I think everybody’s probably heard of the one big beautiful bill, which is still such a mouthful to say. But yeah, that’s probably on everybody’s mind right now. And provisions in that bill affect not only 2025, but obviously, um, planning for the future as well. So that’s, that’s probably um, or CPAs are most busy right now.

Lee Kantor: So when that bill comes out or a bill like it, um, what does that, how does your team handle that? Like are somebody on the team kind of going through it with a fine tooth comb looking for opportunities? Like how do you kind of handle when a big piece of legislation like that comes out as an organization? What do you do with that information?

Chris Edwards: Yeah, there’s, there’s a lot of collaboration amongst the partner group. Um, like you said, digesting the bill, seeing where there’s opportunities, seeing where our clients might, um, you know, not be in, it might be disadvantaged from the bill and, and how do we plan for that? Uh, so yeah, it’s, it’s a very much a collaborative approach. We all put our heads together and brainstorm opportunities.

Lee Kantor: And then when you went through the bill, are there some things that you saw that you’re like, okay, business owners right now should be really jumping on these couple of things?

Chris Edwards: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think probably the most, um, maybe if I could give a top three, uh, you know, a lot’s been said about the bonus depreciation rules becoming much more favorable. Uh, a lot of our technology companies are benefiting from the, um, the new research and development expensing rules. And I think everybody, all taxpayers that, that take on debt are highly leveraged or benefiting from the more flexible interest expense deduction rules. So those are probably sort of the most wide ranging provisions.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there anything for the folks who are, um, maybe in the professional services where they don’t have maybe factories or stuff, but they’re there, you know, um, their value is in intellectual property or more thinking stuff. Is there, is there some benefits for those folks?

Chris Edwards: There is. Yeah. And you know, some of the provisions in the bill, um, were already in existence, but they they made them permanent. So, for example, um, you know, taxpayers who are structured as either a partnership or an S corporation can, can benefit from, uh, what’s called the qualified business income deduction, which is a free, essentially free 20% deduction against your income. Um, and so now you’re kind of in a situation where, you know, it’s permanent, you can start planning long term for it. And, and that’s definitely one where professional service firms are benefiting from.

Lee Kantor: Now what? Take me through, uh, you mentioned being proactive. So say you have a client, um, and you’re being proactive and you schedule a meeting with them. What types of homework should they be prepared to bring you? Or what types of questions should they be prepared to ask you in order to get the most of that proactive, uh, conversation?

Chris Edwards: Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess I would probably say, Lea, that it’s maybe the other way around. It’s your CPA should be asking you the questions. Um, and so what we like to do as a firm when we, uh, you know, certainly when we bring on a new client, we, we have what we call a whiteboarding session, which is, um, just as an example, if it’s a new client for me, I would bring in some of my other partners who have different specialties and we all sort of get in the room together with the client or with the prospect to sort of understand their business and see where all we can add value. Um, you know, I stay in sort of the income tax compliance and consulting side, but I have partners that are in credits and incentives or international tax consulting. And, um, it really does take a sort of a broader team to serve, um, certainly our larger clients. So yeah, I guess to answer your question, I think the, the question should really be coming from the CPA to, to the client.

Lee Kantor: So, so some of those questions that you’re going to ask them. So you’re going to go through their past history with you and, um, you’re going to kind of have an understanding of what they’ve done in the past. And then you’re going to be kind of asking them questions to give you information so that you can maximize their tax savings, but also showing them some areas where maybe they can, um, benefit down the road, right? It’s not just a triage of a past situation.

Chris Edwards: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, step one is understanding the client and the business that they’re in and the structure that they have set up. Uh, and then it’s, it’s really about, um, making sure you understand where they’re trying to go. What’s their, what’s their two year plan? What’s their five year plan? Are they looking to sell the company or are they looking to take on debt or, you know, really all kinds of things can happen in the next, you know, 2 to 5 years and you want to make sure you’re understanding what where your client’s going.

Lee Kantor: Now, if a person or an organization is looking to exit, is there. What are some of the do’s and don’ts when it comes to preparing to exit?

Chris Edwards: Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of times we, we become engaged with clients who are thinking about selling their company and, you know, the 2 to 3 year horizon and, and, uh, you know, that’s, that’s really a time to, as I say, sort of set the table and make sure you’ve got things buttoned up. Um, making sure that you’re, um, you know, your tax accounting methods are in place and are correct. And, uh, because as soon as you go to sell, um, people who are listening who are sold the company know sort of the due diligence side, um, anything that you might have done wrong in the past is probably going to come to light during due diligence. And you just want to make sure you’ve, um, you’ve tried to remedy that as much as you can before you get to that, to that point. And so a lot of sort of what we do when a client comes to us and says, hey, I’m thinking about selling in a few years, we want to make sure we’ve got a good structure in place to, um, you know, transact in the most tax efficient manner. But also, um, as I said, sort of set the table to make sure that we’re going in eyes wide open to, you know, anything that might be questioned. And we try to remedy that on the front end.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share that maybe illustrates the importance of having a good, uh, tax partner is that you don’t name the name of the organization, but maybe, uh, share, um, in what state they were in when they came to you and how you were able to help them get to a new level.

Chris Edwards: Yeah, sure. Um, you know, I think. A lot of times clients will come and, you know, their structure is just not really conducive to where they want to go. Um, maybe that’s something as simple as Converting to a C corporation to take advantage of certain tax provisions on on an ultimate sale, the C Corp stock. Um, sometimes it’s sort of consolidating companies where one company might be sort of generating taxable losses, where another one’s kicking off taxable income with sort of common ownership and just sort of restructuring that to make it more tax efficient and to be able to use the losses against the income. Um, it’s really a wide range of planning opportunities there.

Lee Kantor: So, um, what are some tax credits or deductions that businesses could be overlooking? Um, where they might be leaving some money on the table that you commonly see?

Chris Edwards: Yeah. You know, kind of an interesting one that that didn’t come out with the one big beautiful bill is this, um, which has been in existence. It’s the employer provided childcare credit. So you can think about it. Bennett Thrasher has a program where we subsidize employees childcare. Um, and you essentially the employer gets a credit for, for the payments it makes to the, to the employee or to the childcare provider. Um, that credit used to be the federal credit used to be 25%. And it has jumped up to now 40% with the one big, beautiful bill. Um, so it’s a great way to sort of, you know, take care of your employees while also sort of subsidizing it. But what’s really great about it is Georgia also offers a credit for this. And so when you combine the Georgia credit and the federal credit, um, it really kind of turns into a profit center because that the combined credit percentage is like 115%. And so you can actually, um, companies that are in Georgia and there’s a few other states that offer the same credit can actually profit from having this kind of program with their employees.

Lee Kantor: So that’s a great tip when it comes to, um, the, uh, credits or deductions, is there a tax planning tip that a business owner should be focusing in on this year? Is there something that you see that might be most beneficial right now?

Chris Edwards: Yeah, I think, um, you know, like I said, I think that the bonus depreciation rules, which jumped up to 100% are, um, you know, very popular and on top of everybody’s mind right now, you know, if you’re somebody, if you’re a company that invested heavily in equipment or machinery, then you’re definitely going to benefit from the, the 100% deduction. Um, but also if you’re a company that sort of, let’s say you acquired a warehouse and you built out the warehouse to, um, you know, to fit your needs, you can engage with a cost segregation specialist and do a cost seg study, which effectively kind of looks at your build out and tries to carve out as much cost as you possibly can into what qualifies for bonus depreciation. Um, sort of the default for, you know, for real estate and sort of structural components is, is a really long, uh, class life. But if you do a cost segregation study, you can sort of carve out what, what you can immediately expense for tax purposes. So we’ve seen a lot of that. Um, and yeah, another one for, especially for our technology companies, um, you know, we are now in a place where we can start expensing domestic research and development costs again. Um, and that’s, that’s great for the tech community. And, you know, there’s an election too where you can either expense, you know, if you still have some, some costs in prior years that you haven’t fully expensed, you can elect to like to just go ahead and expense those all in 2025. Um, so yeah, so those are things. So there’s some things that people should be keeping in mind this tax season and beyond.

Lee Kantor: So you mentioned some of the specialties, uh, in the areas you work in. Is there a size company that is an ideal client fit for Bennett Thrasher?

Chris Edwards: Um, it’s, it’s really a kind of a wide range. I mean, we, I think we sort of specialize in that middle market space. Um, but yeah, I mean, we work with companies. I just mentioned technology companies. Um, you know, a lot of times we’ll work with technology companies who are kind of in the early infancy of generating revenue. Um, and so their revenue could be $5 million. And we work with clients all the way up to $1 billion. Um, I would say that maybe our sweet spot is somewhere in that 50 million top line revenue to, you know, on up.

Lee Kantor: Right. So they’re already mature businesses. They might be technology firms, but they’re not startups or even recently funded startups.

Chris Edwards: Yeah. Generally. Yeah. More more mature businesses. That’s a good way to put it.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more about Bennett Thrasher, what is the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Chris Edwards: Uh, yeah, you can, uh, go to our website. You can email me directly. Um, see you on Edwards at btcpay dot net. Um, yeah, you can Google Bennett Thrasher and, and reach out to us there as well.

Lee Kantor: So the website is btcpay dot net.

Chris Edwards: Yeah. That’s correct.

Lee Kantor: Well, Chris, thank you so much for sharing your story today. Doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Chris Edwards: Thanks, Lee.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.

Finding Comfort in the Paw Prints: Understanding Pet Loss and Mental Health Support

by

Atlanta Business Radio
Atlanta Business Radio
Finding Comfort in the Paw Prints: Understanding Pet Loss and Mental Health Support
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In this episode of Atlanta Business Radio, Lee interviews Daniel Popovic, author of “Where the Paw Prints Lead” and leader of PawPads. Dan shares how the loss of his Doberman, Marley, inspired his book and a growing community focused on pet grief support. The conversation explores the deep impact of pet loss on mental health, the importance of recognizing pet grief in workplaces, and the broader benefits of pet ownership. Dan discusses his efforts to raise awareness, build supportive communities, and encourage open conversations about the human-animal bond and healing after loss.

Daniel J. Popovic is a product leader and founder whose work centers on pets as foundational anchors to mental health. His recently released book reflects on the emotional role animals play in our lives and the often‑overlooked impact of pet loss.

What began as a personal exploration has grown into a larger venture focused on redefining how we acknowledge, support, and talk about mental health through the lens of the human–animal bond—particularly in families, workplaces, and communities.

Follow PawPads on Facebook.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Personal experience with pet loss and its emotional impact.
  • The process of writing a book as a form of healing after losing a pet.
  • The significance of daily routines and companionship provided by pets.
  • The formation of a community focused on pet grief support.
  • The mental health benefits of pet ownership and its impact on well-being.
  • The importance of recognizing pet grief in workplace wellness programs.
  • Efforts to raise awareness about pet loss and grief in various settings.
  • The role of pets in enhancing mental health and reducing stress.
  • Building a movement to support those grieving the loss of pets.
  • The connection between pet ownership and healthcare cost savings.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studio in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio, brought to you by Kennesaw State University’s Executive MBA program. The accelerated degree program for working professionals looking to advance their career and enhance their leadership skills. And now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor KSU Executive MBA Program. Without them, we couldn’t be sharing these important stories today on the show. We have the author of the book Where the Paw Prints lead and the leader of the organization, PawPads, Daniel Popovic. Welcome.

Daniel Popovic: Hey, Lee, thanks. I appreciate thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. First, tell us about your company, Pop Heads. How are you serving folks?

Daniel Popovic: Oh, gosh, just getting started. And yeah, we’ll jump into maybe all over the place. I mean, it’s all about pets, right? It’s kind of really, uh, embracing that animal human bond that we have with the pets. Talking about, you know, the resiliency more around mental health. The, the inspiration is really around the book that I launched or published, just published the book, uh, right around Christmas time. So the first two months of this year has been super busy with the, the book launch. Um, and then just kind of how the community is forming. So it’s, it’s kind of changing weekly. It’s not something that I thought would kind of evolve in the way that it has. But you know, it has started with kind of healing and pet loss. And, you know, from me writing about it to heal myself to now helping and supporting others to the impact that they have on our mental health and our well-being. So it’s a growing ecosystem and community at the moment that there’s also an element to that, to it that has an interactive journal that people will be able to start to journal with, you know, just obviously the activities that they do with their pets. So probably a lot to take on there and bounced all bounced all over.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Okay. So, but let’s start at the beginning. So the story begins with you had a pet that passed.

Daniel Popovic: That is correct. Yeah. So where the story begins, Marley was she was a female Doberman, Sherry and I, my wife Sherry, we got her. How long has it been now? It’s probably 11 years ago. She passed when she was nine. So she passed probably about two and a half years ago. And Sherry and I don’t have kids. So she really became our child and took her everywhere. Did everything, you know, with her. Um, Just very much a fur kid. And, you know, as typical with, you know, Dobermans, female Dobermans, you know, they’re protective as well. So just, just an amazing bond and family protector and loved people, you know, loved pets, just a unique personality. And when we lost her, it was kind of a, a soccer punch. One day she’s, she’s with us. She’s okay. The next day we lose her. And the loss wasn’t something that I just thought just how I handled it and how I reacted to it was a significant impact and did not expect the impact, the the way it impacted me, you know, personally, professionally. Uh, and then I just started writing about it. I started doing some research around pet loss and pet grief and just talking to other people, hearing other stories, and just learning about how, how profound of an impact it is. Um, and you know what it kind of means what it does to, to you and how it is different, right? I’ve, I’ve lost a father, I’ve lost jobs, I’ve lost a lot of money to companies. And this impact really, um, took a, it.

Lee Kantor: Hit, it hit differently. Um, and some of it, I would imagine, um, correct me if I’m wrong on this regard, but the way a dog especially is interwoven in your life, it affects the rhythm of your day. Like there are certain rituals that you do that maybe you take for granted when you stop doing them, and all of a sudden they become very visible. Uh, can you talk about how maybe that, um, contributed to some of the grief and it made the grief maybe hit differently.

Daniel Popovic: That yeah, no, that that’s a great point that I mean, and you’re spot on. It’s that void, right? You’ve got, gosh, as you mentioned, it interweaves our daily activities. There’s a handful of things that they really hold us accountable for, right? The, the feeding, the daily activities of walking. But, you know, obviously not every dog might go on a walk. You might have more of a couch potato dog, but there’s an activity, there’s a routine there. Um, you know, the feeding, um, you know, but then you’ve got that companionship, right? So you come home from a rough day of work. Um, you are expecting, you know, what’s about to greet you in that door opens. Um, and it’s the phenomenal relief of, you know what? My day just washed away because of that greeting. And when that greetings gone to your point, the day doesn’t wash away. It still kind of carries itself forward. Those other routines, it, it, it is an emptiness. It’s now, well, how do I, what do I do? How do I fill this emptiness? Because, you know, some of the research I started doing, like these routines, you know, they, they were creatures of habits. They’re creatures of habits. We create this routine where it takes 2 to 5 months and we just do it right.

Daniel Popovic: And then all of a sudden, when it’s gone, it’s gone. It takes time for that to. Settle. It takes time for us to figure out what to do. And that’s where I started talking with a lot of folks that, you know, a lot of people will rush right into another pet because of those those voids. Um, some folks will kind of go into hiding, right? Because they, they, they’re grieving. They don’t know how to talk about it. There’s not really an outlet because, you know, pet grief doesn’t really have a voice. And you might be somebody else might look at you and like, hey, that’s just a dog. It’s like, well, no, it’s not a dog. Um, so it’s those voids that you mentioned that. Yeah. Now that void is gone and I’m trying to figure out how to fill it, you know, not knowing the impact of it. With Sherry and I, it was a little bit different. Um, and this is another thing that’s kind of led me down this path as well. We Marshall, um, was her brother, so we still have him. He actually turns 11 next week. So we’re, you know, we’re in joy. You know, he’s a Doberman as well. And Dobermans don’t typically make it, you know, past ten years. So we’re excited about every extra day that we get with him.

Daniel Popovic: But not only are we grieving, but what we don’t recognize is the pet grief. They grieve as well. And we didn’t notice that with him in the first couple of days. I mean, I was trying the main thing I was trying to do and what I share with other folks is keep with the routine, even when that that pet is no longer around, that routine is no longer around. Keep with it that that’s a way to kind of heal yourself, to slow yourself out of it, because it is an abrupt halt to, you know, to your life, to your, to your well-being. Um, but what we recognized with Marshall, I think it was a couple days later, he started looking for her. So we started noticing, okay, now we got to do something about that. We’ve got to figure out how do we how do we keep him from sliding from a health perspective? Um, so naturally we went out and got another one, which helped and that certainly distracted him. But um, Lee, as you mentioned, it’s those voids, right? It’s that, it’s that unknown or the hidden void of those activities that we do every single day with them. Now it’s gone and it’s extremely disruptive to our lifestyle.

Lee Kantor: So how did the book come about? Was that just part of your healing process? You started writing and journaling and just capturing some of these feelings on paper?

Daniel Popovic: Yeah, yeah, that, that. Yeah. Spot on. That was my healing process. And between you and I, I, I didn’t imagine it going much further than that. But I, you know, the main thing was the healing process. But also, I think the bigger thing for me is it was a way to keep her closer. I, I didn’t want to lose sight of some of the amazing memories and some of the amazing ventures. I mean, obviously, yes, we’ve got all kinds of pictures. Um, you know, that helps. But the writing, the journaling seemed to kind of take it a to the next level. You know, it helped me heal. It helped keep me closer. Um, and from there, I then, and it was, it was funny because I had no structure behind the book. I would sit down one Saturday morning, four hours later, I’ve got 20,000 words. Um, so the writing was easy and all of a sudden within a month, I had, gosh, I had 70,000 words. And I’m like, hang on, there’s a book here. Uh, so I kind of did that. Then I went backwards and I started to structure it and I started talking to folks and I’m like, um, there were two words that people kept talking about when they read what I was putting together. Um, you know, I was trying to capture some beta readers, some feedback because, you know, as I started writing, it was healing me.

Daniel Popovic: But then I started thinking, hey, can my stories help somebody else? And there were two words that people kept saying. One was emotional, which of course it’s going to be right, because I do talk about the loss and the impact in there, but I spend more time talking about the fun stories, the funny routines that we had. And everybody kept coming back saying, this is relatable, this is relatable. And naturally, everybody that has pets, it’s like, you know, you’ve taken them on vacations, you have goofy stories that you’ve had with them. And that’s where it went from. Me just writing a book to heal myself became a little bit more of a movement that, how can I leverage this story to help others that have grieved or that, you know, are might be experiencing loss? Um, there’s, there’s a community around this, but, um, that’s kind of how it’s now evolving. And I launched a podcast as well, where I bring families in basically to talk about their pets. Um, everybody on the episodes that I’ve had so far has lost a pet. So we talk about that and it’s really meant to kind of inspire others to support others, but then help others that maybe that haven’t lost a pet yet. Just kind of prepare them, so to speak, even though you can’t be prepared, but you still want to kind of, you want to have that awareness because when, when that, you know, when that happens, it is a significant impact.

Daniel Popovic: But, um, so it has evolved from, yeah, just me writing bunches of pages to heal myself to now, um, you know, leveraging this, uh, to create a community to support, to help others. And, um, and there’s even bigger impacts like mental health, the, you know, just having pets in your family. This is an astonishing you may or may not know this, I. You know, there’s, uh, a hobby which is a human animal bond research institute. They had a, uh, some research recently where they showed pet ownership saves $22 billion in healthcare costs. And that’s astounding. Now, when I say that and when you when you hear it, or if you would read it, you’re thinking, okay, what do you mean by healthcare costs? Is it is that, you know, healthcare savings on my pet? And I was like, no, that’s healthcare savings on you and I, right? Because, you know, you’ve got things like obesity in there, right? We’re more active with them, but it’s also the mental health association. That’s the significant benefit in how they they support our mental well-being. So I feel like I’m only scratching the surface with how this story has started to unfold.

Lee Kantor: Well, maybe you can give some advice for the listeners out there when it comes to building community. So how did that come about? Where? Okay, I’m publishing a book. Obviously, this is an issue that a lot of people can relate to. How do you take that next step to kind of organizing, serving, and kind of curating a community of like minded people, you know, for a common cause?

Daniel Popovic: Yeah, no, no. Great, great question. So this may, this may answer it. It may not. But what you made me think of when you asked that and mentioned businesses, obviously with businesses listening in on this is you’ve got workplace wellness programs, right? Um, and kind of giving what I say pet grief, pet support, pet loss of voice. And, you know, there’s a lot of great workplace wellness programs out there, but they’re really geared towards you and I towards our health, but it doesn’t recognize or support when somebody loses a pet, you know what happens? How can I support that individual? Because they may need to take time off, right? They’re going to if they’re not taking time off and they’re coming in. Their productivity levels may, may, may be impacted. Um, you know, I had a similar thing happen with me when I lost Marly and this was kind of another part of my inspiration is my leadership at the time was, hey, Dan, we noticed you’re kind of off. You don’t seem the same. What’s going on? And I’m like, are you kidding me? I just kind of told I told you the other day what happened. Uh, do you not understand the impact of on me? Um, so creating more awareness around that. I had a, I had somebody on my podcast, actually, she was one of my very first interviews, the place that she worked at.

Daniel Popovic: She had mentioned her leadership came to her and said, hey, look, if you need time off to grieve, take it. We’re here. What can we do to support you? We understand what that loss means to you, you know, so creating more, you know, workplace wellness programs to kind of support, you know, the families and kind of put a spotlight on this and what it means. And, you know, to have them in our lives, not only to have them in our lives, but the potential impact. Um, when they’re gone. The other thing that I saw some companies do, but their paws at work, there’s this company in the UK, they actually come out to all of the companies, all of the companies. I shouldn’t say it like that. They come out to companies and they bring out for kids. They bring out puppies for a half a day, a few hours, and it’s, it’s for workplace stress relief, so to speak. So just imagine, you know, working in the office, busy as heck. But then all of a sudden, hey, at lunchtime, let’s go hang out and play with the fur kids. And that, that feeling and what that does to kind of wash over relief, um, wash, wash away some of the stress.

Daniel Popovic: Um, it’s things like that that I’m starting to see happen a little bit more in, in various pockets in various areas. So to me, that’s part of, you know, creating that community for kids is a great example. They’re a phenomenal organization here in Atlanta, and I do believe they do events like that. They’ve just started doing that where they will come out to corporations with pets and provide that kind of companionship. Um, but naturally, obviously, you know, they want you to, you know, some way foster rescue and all that stuff. And, and I think it starts to, I think there’s more education around just really, truly what it means having them as a part of our family, what, you know, we know again, about the physical benefits, but it’s really the mental benefits that we get from them that, um, you know, really kind of strengthen us and carry us forward, even with children, right? If you think about younger people or children that may have anxiety or social isolation, pets tend to kind of bring them out of it. Um, so that’s kind of how the community starts to form is around, you know, activities like that. You know, education, you know, kind of like what you and I are talking about.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Daniel Popovic: Oh, gosh, just more and more of stuff like this, more of, of creating the awareness. And that’s a great question because what’s, what’s interesting is I reached out to a few rotary clubs today to kind of get out and engage, do some speaking engagements around this. Um, I did a book signing event with fur kids a couple weeks ago. They leveraged it as a fundraiser, which is phenomenal. That’s spot on, how it should be done. We had, um, a pretty sizable crowd come out, very interactive. And it was just a day of recognizing the bond and what it means and obviously talking about loss. Um, so I think it’s just that’s kind of the things that I need is, you know, uh, more opportunities to get, Get this in front of of leaders. Start talking about it. Um. How we can kind of start to put some of these programs together to. You know, just embrace what it means to have pets, um, as a part of. You know, our families, um, everybody should have a pet, you know? Not to sound corny or anything, but, um, you know, but I’m also not going to sit here and say you’re not going to have challenging days.

Daniel Popovic: Um, but you know, those challenging days, you take them in stride and it’s more they make you a better person. Um, I can tell you Marley has inspired me to do a lot. I’ve done some interesting business, entrepreneurial things, um, from a technology perspective with pet care and rewarding people. So they’re, they’re inspirational, they’re supportive. Um, I’ve had people talk about how they’ve healed them through breakups, um, but then reunited with, you know, their wife after they previously broke up. So, um, I think to, you know, again, going back to answer your question is, is there any opportunity to get out in front of some of these, you know, civic organizations and some of these wellness programs to come out and talk about this and, um, how to create more synergies between the, for kids of the world’s, you know, the Atlanta Humane Society’s of the world and these organizations to, um, to do some of these events and just kind of the education around the mental health benefits that, um, come from pet ownership.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to get Ahold of the book or join your community, is there a website? Is there kind of a central location that can answer some questions for folks?

Daniel Popovic: Yeah. So it’s pop dot pet just pop up. Every pet has a pop ad, right? So pop dot pet, um, that will then take them to the website. They’ll see a link to the podcast where they can hear about some of these amazing stories. Um, and I’ve got one tomorrow that I’m doing with somebody that wrote this book called A Field Guide for Pet Care Givers. Um, there is a whole new there’s a whole movement around end of life care for pets. Um, which, um, is really interesting looking at that. You know, you see a lot of innovation around the end of life care for like you and I in aging adults, but you don’t think about that with pets. Um, but sorry, going back to your questions, pop, pop dot pet, you’ll see a link to the podcast and you’ll also see a link to the book, uh, and it’s on Amazon so you can search by my name, Daniel Popovic, um, and find a link to that book. And I’ve just started writing book number two. Um, so I’m kind of excited to get that out. And it’s just the feedback that I’ve been getting from everybody that’s inspiring me to, to write these books. And like I said, it’s different. It’s just more Storytelling. It’s it’s bringing people in. I mean, it’s, it’s nervous at the same time because you’re getting a really sneak peek into into my heart and how I operate because I kind of spill it out in the books.

Daniel Popovic: Um, you know, and then I have, but I have reflective questions in there as well to kind of draw people in that, um, you know, for example, um, if we’ve got time to share what might the, this first book where the paw prints lead, I lead with an episode with Marshall where he flipped his stomach. I was on an office call, right? Shari comes running up and she’s like, something’s wrong with Marshall. Something’s wrong with Marshall. And I’m like, you know, I, I kind of, you know, Pooh poohed it off, right? Because I was on a call. But luckily the call ended. And then I walked down and I’m like, okay, something’s visibly visibly wrong with him. So we’re calling around and they’re like, you need to get him to the E.R. right away. And you know, we’re in North Georgia. We’re way up here, you know, by, uh, the Dawsonville Outlets up 400 and closest air was 30 minutes away. And this was a Friday. You know, end of day. So you’ve got rush hour. Now, granted, I’m heading south. So you’re thinking that there’s not going to be rush hour way up here.

Daniel Popovic: Well what happens? There’s an accident of all things that I’m right behind. And, um, luckily it’s moving, but on both sides of the street, there’s a police officer and a tow truck attendant. They’re converging into the intersection to block it off. And Li, I was like, heck no, I’m not stopping. You’re gonna have to do something to make me stop. I kind of broke through it, and I just flew down to exit ten to get him to the E.R. and, you know, she saved his life. I mean, that’s one of those life saving things. But that’s that’s one of, you know, obviously there’s other stories, you know, stories in there just talking about fun stuff, but there’s reflective questions in there that as you read the story, it then makes you think about, hey, how did you handle a stressful situation? What was the outcome? Um. I mean, you know, I was panicking because I knew that was a thing of life or death, uh, with a flip stomach. And, um, but that’s kind of how the book is strung out that just, you know, putting the heart out there and the things that we experience, the, the good things, the, you know, the challenging things, but then the reflective questions to draw the audience in.

Lee Kantor: Well, congratulations on all the momentum. I’m sorry that this tragedy is what spurred this, but it’s important work that you’re doing and we appreciate you for doing it. And the website one more time is papads dot p a w p a d s dot p e t. Dan Popovic, thank you so much for sharing your story today.

Daniel Popovic: Thank you Lee, I appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.

Marketing Magic: How Infinite Marketing is Changing the Game

by

High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Marketing Magic: How Infinite Marketing is Changing the Game
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee interviews Cara Bedford, CEO of Infinite Marketing. Cara discusses how Infinite Marketing offers a flexible, scalable marketing ecosystem with over 600 specialists, providing tailored solutions for businesses and nonprofits. She explains their unique approach to matching talent with client needs, driving measurable ROI, and supporting organizations with limited resources. Cara shares success stories, emphasizes accountability in marketing spend, and invites both clients and marketing professionals to connect with Infinite Marketing for growth opportunities. The episode highlights innovative strategies for aligning marketing with business goals.

Cara Bedford is an innovator and high-impact leader reshaping how companies scale their marketing. As CEO and Founder of Infinite Marketing, she’s pioneered a next-gen, disruptive model that uses top global talent to build flexible, on-demand teams of fractional CMOs, strategists, and execution experts.

With 20+ years in tech-sector executive roles, she blends deep operational and strategic marketing expertise to help organizations implement high-performing, efficient, and impact-driven growth strategies—without the complexity of traditional hiring. Her framework accelerates growth, fuels organizational transformation, and delivers breakthrough results.

Before launching Infinite Marketing, she led teams of 300+, founded Disruption Magazine Canada, and tripled marketing outputs while cutting costs by 50%, demonstrating her ability to optimize, streamline, and elevate performance. A committed advocate for the future of work, she contributes to leading programs including the Women Entrepreneurial Program, CAS NASA Speakers Series, NorQuest Workforce Advisory Committee, Forward/Slash, and Upwork’s Customer Advisory Board.

Cara champions purpose-led, joy-driven work, empowering teams and clients to unlock their potential, inspire innovation, and turn bold possibilities into tangible success.

Connect with Cara on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Overview of Infinite Marketing as an innovative marketing ecosystem.
  • Comparison of Infinite Marketing’s model to traditional marketing agencies.
  • Description of the “talent bench” concept and its benefits for clients.
  • Discussion of Infinite Marketing’s success in various industries, including construction, technology, and nonprofits.
  • Explanation of how Infinite Marketing supports nonprofits with tailored marketing solutions.
  • Insights into the process of working with clients, including the role of fractional CMOs.
  • Strategies for attracting and retaining top marketing talent within Infinite Marketing.
  • Case study illustrating the impact of Infinite Marketing on a construction client.
  • Importance of aligning marketing with fundraising and donor engagement for nonprofits.
  • Emphasis on accountability in marketing spend and the value of strategic marketing approaches.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have Cara Bedford, CEO with Infinite Marketing. Welcome.

Cara Bedford: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about infinite marketing, how you serving folks?

Cara Bedford: Yeah. So infinite marketing is a ecosystem of bright, talented marketing minds that come together where we do everything from high level strategy and branding down to, you know, putting your posts up on LinkedIn. So we really are that in why it’s called infinite is that one stop shop for marketing needs that really bridges the gap that we see in agencies or with fractional models that you kind of only get one or the other. And so we looked at it as building out this engine, this demand marketing engine that also looks at how we not only execute marketing, but build revenue growth in your business.

Lee Kantor: So is this kind of a two sided marketplace like a Fiverr, or is it a are you an agency that deploys talent?

Cara Bedford: So again, agency is a bad word in our book because the agency model is, in our opinion, antiquated. I mean, you you build the talent, you buy it and there’s this huge markup and it usually takes a lot of time. And so as I was a CMO of a company and a VP and a director, having to work with agencies as an internal resource, I found it really hard. And I found that a lot of the time, a lot of my time was educating them to do the work versus working with them effectively. And while I appreciate that there’s some really good agencies out there. You know, you kind of have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your Prince Charming. So. So for me, that’s why I built infinite is I built it because I saw this whole UN gap in the market of. I didn’t want to be in my role, this vendor manager. You know, I didn’t want to have the digital agency and the content agency and the design agency and the. And they were all these separate things. I wanted to have one place where I had one account person that I built a relationship with and really owned the outcomes with me and that we were able to, you know, think further ahead and work further ahead than just vendor relationship.

Lee Kantor: So who is the ideal client for you? Is it a brand or is it like who hires you?

Cara Bedford: Yeah. No problem. So we have clients all across North America. We service clients in many different industries. But I’d say our top three is in kind of scalable businesses. So we do a lot with like construction or construction adjacent because we are scalable marketing. So you can kind of, you know, work with the cycles. I think that’s been a really big opportunity and benefit again, against the agency model because you pay one retainer and that’s it for the month. But we scale up and down based on the amount of work that there is. Um, and then the other is tech. We have a lot of tech clients. This can be anywhere from like healthcare tech or, um, valley tech or tech startup. We do a lot there. Uh, and then our third is we work with a lot of nonprofits. We are a 90% female driven and female owned agency. Um, uh, sorry, ecosystem. I just said agency because you said it ecosystem. And so for us, our, our, uh, you know, our big drive is we want to make impacts in the world. And so, uh, a lot of our fractional CMOs, um, we do have like different preferred rates and partners and programs for our nonprofit clients.

Lee Kantor: So let’s walk through how you work with the nonprofit. So a nonprofit is coming to you because they have what kind of challenge, what’s the pain they’re having, where they got to get in touch with Cara and her team?

Cara Bedford: Yeah. No problem. So the nonprofits are usually coming to us because of either resource constraint or budget constraint, uh, hoping that we can look at those and solve, uh, both of those constraints for them, which we do, um, because we again, have that scalable model, we can work within their budget cycles and donor cycles. Uh, the non-profits also really love us because we build ROI in. So we build ROI in into our marketing plans. We believe that marketing and sales should work very closely and work hand in hand. And so for them, their donors and their fundraising teams, um, love working with us. And so we really create these, uh, developmental processes that marketing can drive, but also in support of, at the end of the day, you know, the dollars that are coming through the door to help them do the good in the world and make positive change.

Lee Kantor: So if this nonprofit out there is the marketing person on that team, your main contact, or are you working with kind of the senior leadership team or the president or the executive director?

Cara Bedford: Yeah, both. So a lot of the times we get hired by the CEO or CFO for fractional services. Um, nonprofits usually can’t pay a very large, you know, salary amount and they don’t want to take on the human capital risk. And so we’ll bring in a fractional CMO that’s working kind of more at the higher seeded level area, folding in their team with us. Uh, and building out, you know, that really solid, uh, team. Uh, a lot of the times the nonprofits, uh, depending on their size, they might not need full time strategy, right? They need a lot of that in the, in the, um, uh, you know, in the day to day execution. And then second, we will work with the directors. If they kind of have a team that they’re working with, um, internally, a CMO, they already have that strategy and they just need the execution. Then we’ll take that plan and we’ll price on it. So the really big difference is, is like, do you have a plan? Because we don’t do random acts of marketing here. So if you have a plan, then that’s great. If you don’t need a plan, then let’s get a plan in place and then we can figure out kind of the best way to, to serve our clients moving forward.

Lee Kantor: So now, is there an infinite marketing kind of philosophy or, um, kind of, uh, way of doing business and then your fractional people are deploying that or your fractional people kind of the thought leaders that go into any unique in your situation and you’re matching up the right person with the right opportunity.

Cara Bedford: Yeah. So we have over 600, um, people on our talent bench. Uh, we call it the talent bench because I live in Canada and it’s hockey. So my, my brain, it’s like you’re subbing in the defensive line or the offensive line. Um, and so our talent is fully mapped out to be matched based on industry expertise and budget expertise. And so we’re working and matching based on what that would look like. Um, whereas in a typical agency is like, who’s available, we’re not doing it that way because we’re infinite. Everybody is always available. So we’re really about building out the best matches for that team. Um, and what that team is going to need. So if it is fractional where they need that like high strategy person, then it’s going to execute with a team, either our team where we come in and we’re the full marketing department from top to bottom because, you know, you might not want that human capital risk or you might not want to have those, uh, additional, um, seats. We’re kind of like a 4 to 1 ratio. When you kind of think of it, you’re getting four people in this model for the price of one person’s salary. If you think traditional marketing. And so this way, there’s just a lot more flex for for the business. There’s a lot more flex for building the team. You’re not getting a lot of generalists. You’re getting deep seated specialists that really come in and work extremely efficiently because they are they’ve done it before. They’re not learning as they go. They’ve, um, the average tenure here is 15 years. So they, they’ve seen it all at this point.

Lee Kantor: So now when I’m working with infinite, am I, do I have that one point person? Like if I contract with a fractional I that fractional is now the quarterback and they’re deploying, oh, I need a, a content writer or I need a videographer, I need whatever I need. And then that’s all just kind of part of the, what you get when you work with infinite, you get access to all the talent.

Cara Bedford: Well, we’ve already we have already built the bench. So you’re not having the fractional saying, oh, let me go and find you all these vendors. Um, or hey, I’ve got, you know, I maybe have some great relationships with digital people, but here’s the plan. Now you go execute it. We’re really hand-holding from start to finish. And, um, you know, a lot of our clients have been with us since day one and has just continuously growing because we really take that approach, um, around making sure that our clients know that we are fully in with them. We’re in the trenches with them. We own the outcomes, we own the budgets, we own the ROI, we own the outcomes we own. You know, if you’re an iOS company, which we are as well, like if you have a vto and on that vto, you’ve got, you know, that really big market positioning and what that’s going to look like for you. And maybe it’s geographical expansion, like we’re, we are owning that, um, if you want us to. And so that’s, that’s the, I think a really big piece is a lot of our clients truly feel like our our team members are are their own.

Lee Kantor: So how do you attract and keep the team members? Like, what are you doing as an organization to, you know, keep that bench full and ready?

Cara Bedford: Uh, we work with really amazing clients. I think that’s a really big piece is, um, there’s other, uh, companies that kind of do a kind of a recruitment almost style like this and that isn’t us. Um, I spend a lot of time as the CEO of this company building very deep seated relationships with, uh, our potential clients. Uh, we say no to a lot of work. Um, so there’s work that will come through and it’s just not a fit. And, um, I’m 100% okay to say no to protect the talent bench and the effectiveness of the talent bench. Um, and so for us, it’s really about that match and, and creating that magic match and we protect our talent. I mean, one of the things I worked in agency before is you became a how many hours does it take? Like it just it’s everything is about how many hours and getting it at the lowest cost. And you just kind of start to feel very burnt out. Like the agency burnout is very real. And when you think about it, a lot of that burnout is women. And so for me, it was creating a safe space for these very highly talented people to land, um, and create what they create. And I’m so proud of my team. Like I watch what gets pushed out the door and, you know, our QA processes. I just, it’s, it’s amazing. It’s amazing what’s going out the door to these clients. Um, and what’s going into market for these clients, whether they’re an enterprise client or a startup, like the team really cares and truly cares about every little thing they touch. And I think that’s really important is there’s that aspect of empowerment. So you don’t get.

Lee Kantor: So how does talent that’s available right now get on your radar? What what are some things that talent could be doing to be, uh, kind of found by the infinite marketing folks?

Cara Bedford: Yeah. So we shop talent twice a year. You would, uh, put your resume in talent at infinite marketing.ca. Um, the, uh, kind of structure for that is, you know, we ask for either a portfolio or kind of what you’re working on, uh, some sort of cover letter about you is really great. Um, and so we kind of build it through there. We also shop on platform. Like we’re really good at indicating different platform people that as well. Um, work with us. We’ve got very high, um, relationships with different platforms where I either sit on boards for those platforms or I’m, uh, you know, part of an advocacy or customer advocacy committee. Um, and so for me, again, it’s really around the world has infinite talent and genius. You just kind of go find it. And so we’ve, uh, you know, infinite hasn’t been around forever, but I’ve been working in this style of model for over a decade now. And so with over a decade, you start to figure out some really great talent that you can build these teams with and make them feel empowered. And they truly are. They come in and, uh, you really have to have that entrepreneurial mindset to work here because you’re in charge, you’re in charge of the clients that you get to work on, the team you want to build. And without that, uh, you know, it just doesn’t work. And so we love people that have that, you know, abundance, you know, high strategy, um, high emotional intelligence, uh, build. And I think that’s, again, what sets us apart is we’re looking for tenure and we’re looking for people that really know their stuff. So.

Lee Kantor: So is there a story you can share that maybe illustrates how you work with someone, maybe share the challenge they came to you with and how you were able to help them get to a new level.

Cara Bedford: Sure. So, um, I’ll chat construction. Uh, so we work with the construction company. Um, we work with a bunch of construction companies, but the one I’m thinking of is a more, um, uh, design kind of build construction company. Uh, and they build, um, different buildings, whether it’s retrofits or, or brand new builds. Um, and they’re looking. They came to us saying, you know, we have this gap, we have marketing people that do the marketing, but it, it doesn’t feel together, like it’s not all driving in the same direction. We don’t know how to attribute it to revenue. We don’t know how to, um, you know, work with it to make it better. Um, everything is kind of, we’ve got these other vendors and these other vendors are also working and it’s just not streamlined and it’s not efficient and it’s not productive. And we spend all this money every year, but we don’t really know what we get for it. And so we took them through a session and our sessions are very affordable. So we’ll audit and session out depending on how large your business is, um, and what the needs are. If you’re looking for kind of that like 12 month overview or that six month overview, uh, we’ll do, uh, sessions from anywhere between 3 to 5000 or 7 to 10,000. If you’re looking for more, um, depending on the size and we’ll go in and we’ll audit everything and we audit for revenue, ROI efficiency.

Cara Bedford: Um, and, and really bring that out. So we did that, we did that, uh, audit for them in that plan. And uh, within three months, we were already seeing attributed marketing results. We were seeing the sales team being able to find collateral and get proposals faster out the door. Um, and we actually were able to calculate that through their new CRM because we were tracking activities that we helped them build. So we also built them a revops system and we were able to, to look at it and say that we were able to contribute to a 70% efficiency rating that they definitely did not have before. And so, um, that is a huge, a huge piece. And then at the end of the year, we also added in, uh, revenue. So, uh, we added in an additional while we were building foundation 18% revenue and looking to do a lot more, uh, as our, our continued relationship has grown. And so, uh, those are the types of pieces we’re, we’re talking about and looking at, if we’re talking kind of that, again, strategy level downward and they saved on, on human costs, right? Like they saved on salaries and different costs in that regard too. And so more efficient, less risk. Usually it’s a no brainer for a lot of companies to, to at least try the model now.

Lee Kantor: Is there any advice you can share for non-profits when it comes to marketing? Is there some low hanging fruit for non-profits that you see them, uh, not tapping into?

Cara Bedford: Oh yes. Please sync up your, um, I call it sales because my brain is very B2B, but your funding and your donor and your, your, your revenue engines sync that up with your marketing. And don’t just think of it in events and pretty postcards and, um, you know, really dig deep around the dollars that are being spent on, on those things and, and where in this day and age, you might be able to cut back, like you maybe don’t need to print a program for the event. Maybe it’s digital or maybe there’s an app for it. And I think what’s really neat is because I come from the tech world and did marketing for tech, we’re able to innovate a lot, um, in our processes for nonprofits as low hanging fruit and save the money, save the money so that they can take that money and, and use it for the cause that they’re doing, you know, whether that’s whatever it is for the impact they want to make in the world. And I think that is a really, they’re scared to go in and look under the hood. But then once they do, it’s actually usually really easy to, um, make all the ducks fly in the same direction. And right now, if you kind of don’t know, then you’re guessing and you’re doing random and random doesn’t help anybody in market or for your client base.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Cara Bedford: Um, so we are looking for amazing talent. We are looking for amazing clients. Um, we really from our, you know, our filter of the people we want to work with, we want to work with people who want to grow, grow their businesses or grow themselves. Uh, we want to work, um, you know, with companies across North America. So really good. If you’re looking to come into Canadian market or to branch out into American market because we have that expertise seated in both. So if you really are looking at that higher North American presence, um, and if you’re just tired of not knowing, you know, like if you’re tired of just not knowing what you’re getting for that spend as a CEO. I mean, I sit here and we do our own marketing and I hold my team accountable for every dollar spent for myself as well. Right? As, as the owner and CEO of the company. And so we’re taking the same care and same approach with your company. And so if that’s something that that interests you and you want to think about it in a different way than you’ve probably ever thought about marketing before, reach out.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Cara Bedford: Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn. So Cara Bedford, I’m very active on LinkedIn and love networking there. Or you can go to our website, infinite marketing and, and, uh, fill out a form.

Lee Kantor: Well, Cara, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Cara Bedford: Yeah. No problem. Thanks, Lee, for your time.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio

Unlocking the Secrets to Successful Business Sales: Insights from BestBonobos

by

Atlanta Business Radio
Atlanta Business Radio
Unlocking the Secrets to Successful Business Sales: Insights from BestBonobos
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In this episode of Atlanta Business Radio, Lee interviews Elias Crum of BestBonobos, a platform helping small business owners sell their companies (valued up to $10 million) without brokers. Elias explains how BestBonobos uses AI to guide owners through valuation, document preparation, buyer identification, and due diligence. The discussion covers common pitfalls in business sales, the platform’s flat-fee pricing model, and success stories. Elias also shares tips on leveraging personal networks to find buyers and invites listeners to connect for more information. The episode highlights technology’s role in transforming business sales.

Elias Crum is the Co-Founder of BestBonobos, an AI-powered platform that helps small business owners sell their company without relying on expensive brokers. After building and selling his own company in 2024, Elias experienced firsthand how fragmented, opaque and costly the traditional exit process can be for founders.

With decades of entrepreneurial experience across Europe and the United States, he now focuses on helping underserved small and mid-sized business owners gain clarity about their valuation, prepare their company for transfer, and confidently navigate the sale process.

BestBonobos operates from Atlanta and serves founders in the $50K to $5M revenue range who want to take control of their exit and keep more of the proceeds.

Connect with Elias on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Overview of Best Bonobos and its mission to assist small business owners in selling their businesses independently.
  • Discussion of the challenges and inefficiencies associated with traditional business brokers, including high fees and low success rates.
  • Explanation of how Best Bonobos utilizes AI technology to streamline the business sales process, including valuation and due diligence.
  • Insights into the typical paths business owners take when exiting their companies, including the use of brokers versus self-selling.
  • Examination of common misconceptions about brokers and the negotiation process in business sales.
  • Description of the valuation process used by Best Bonobos, including factors that influence business worth.
  • Discussion of the emotional aspects of business valuation and the importance of objective assessments.
  • Overview of the comprehensive support provided by Best Bonobos, including document preparation and data room management.
  • Identification of common mistakes business owners make when preparing to sell their businesses.
  • Exploration of Best Bonobos’ pricing model and growth strategy, including partnerships with referral sources.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studio in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio, brought to you by Kennesaw State University’s Executive MBA program. The accelerated degree program for working professionals looking to advance their career and enhance their leadership skills. And now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor for another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, Ksuz executive MBA program. Without them, we wouldn’t be sharing these important stories today on the show. We have Elias Crum and he is with BestBonobos. Welcome.

Elias Crum: Thanks for having me, Lee.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about your company, how you’re serving folks.

Elias Crum: Absolutely, absolutely. So what we’re doing is we’re helping small business owners with a company that is doing up to 10 million to sell their company themselves without the help of a broker.

Lee Kantor: Wow, that’s a big lift. Can you tell us a little bit about what was the genesis of the idea? How did you decide to get involved in this kind of work?

Elias Crum: Absolutely. So yeah, I, I sold a couple of companies before, and the last one I sold was a marketing technology company back in 2024. And when I decided to sell that, I approached a couple of brokers. So in that experience, I recognized a lot of stuff and I found out that it’s actually pretty expensive to sell your company through a broker, which is fine if you’re selling, but only 20% of companies that are on sale actually are sold. So a typical broker charges between 5 and 15% of the proceedings. So business owners that have built for years, that have built a company for years, put all their blood, sweat and tears into that, finally decide to sell or have to sell because of illness or whatsoever. There is always a point someone wants to sell his company. The broker takes up to 15% of the whole company proceedings, so there could be. When you’re selling for a million, that could be over 100, 100,000, right? So after selling that company, which I did on myself, so I didn’t use a broker, I found out that it’s actually not that hard to sell your company yourself. The thing is, you need to know how you how you do this because it’s not something you do on a daily basis. It’s something you do a couple of times or maybe once in a lifetime. So I figured when I, when I built the platform, I just took my own experience and I built the platform together with a business partner, Sebastian. And he, he and I sold a couple of companies.

Elias Crum: So we took all that practice in mind. And then we built BestBonobos, which basically guides a complete well, it guides the owner through throughout the entire sale from valuation to due diligence. And that’s where typically a deal gets stuck because in the beginning, every company owner overestimates what a company is worth. And during a couple of steps later, you enter the due diligence phase where you have to upload everything into a data room. They start to dig into the books and they find all kinds of reasons to talk to you. Well, basically to talk to your initial offer down. Um, I figured when with the help of AI, we could completely automate the process. So by uploading just your QuickBooks or quick sheets, uh, yearly report into the software, answering a couple of other questions. You’ll get a valuation. After that valuation, the fun starts because you need to prepare your company to be sold. So you need to have a sales brochure or an information memorandum as brokers tend to call it. Um, well, the software, the platform helps you to build that information memorandum. It’s entirely based on AI. So you’ll get a very nice word document combined with a one pager, um, that you can use to put your business at sale like an abyss by yourself, for example, or another marketplace. After that, you’ll, uh, you’ll, you’ll want to find buyers. So the AI actually helps you find buyers. So we’ll do a, uh, quick, let’s say gamification, uh, a little game with you, a couple of questions asked, like, uh, the same stuff a broker typically asks you when you’re selling your company.

Elias Crum: So it could be, um, have you been approached, uh, the last six months by someone that wants to buy your company? So we have a couple of questions like that. You come up with a, a long list and will take that list, and the AI will actually look for lookalikes and companies that will actually fit your profile better and will score it based on, uh, on the chances of a fit. Um, the final step is a data room, so you’ll have an entire data room ready to to be inspected by a potential buyer that altogether comes with a, uh, a score like an exit readiness score, as we call it, which you can see in the platform all the time. And it basically indicates how ready you are for a sale, combined with all kinds of tips to improve your company value, to improve your chances of being with that 20% that that actually sells, instead of being with the 80% that never gets sold. And uh, to Ali, it’s, it’s a true, it’s an entire new platform. So it’s really disrupting a market. There’s no platform like this. It’s the first in its in its kind. So it’s, uh, it’s kind of, uh, finding our way, kind of testing the waters, but it’s, it’s going fine so far. We just launched a couple of weeks ago and first results are pretty good.

Lee Kantor: So now the people who, um. So let’s break down somebody who’s trying to exit their business. If you have 100 people exiting, you know, what’s the percentage of people that number one, use a broker. Number two, go at it alone like you did, or number three, just quit because it’s not, it’s either not working or they didn’t get a number they wanted or was too much trouble.

Elias Crum: Yeah, I would say probably 30 to 40% will approach a broker. Um, and the other 60% will try to sell themselves. And trying to sell themselves also means that they put their business at sale at a marketplace like a Best buy sell, for example. But, um, have you ever looked at Best Buy sell?

Lee Kantor: Yeah, I mean, I’ve, I mean, I’ve, um, I’ve interviewed a lot of people that have sold businesses, I’ve interviewed a lot of people, business brokers that sell businesses for people. So I’m superficially aware of that, um, experience. But the broker always seems to come to the table with, I’m like your agent, like a movie star’s agent, like, I’m gonna make this happen for you and you’re going to get a higher price if you work with me as opposed to kind of going at it your own because I do this every day.

Elias Crum: Absolutely. So that’s what they told me. Um, I approached three and they all told me that, um, they’re going to be my, my agent and that they’re going to take care of negotiations. And, um, so it’s actually what I asked a, well, it’s basically all the three brokers that I had visited me, I asked them, why would I hire you? And the majority were basically all three of them told me that it’s mainly about negotiations because it’s hard to negotiate for yourself. Well, I didn’t agree because as a business owner, you’re negotiating every day. Um, the, the, the assumption I had beforehand was that they had a list of potential buyers for me and they didn’t seem to have that. So that was, um, well, a disillusion that I had. I thought by approaching brokers, um, myself in my industry, they would have a list of potential buyers. But in the end they didn’t seem to have that. So their perceived advantage was mainly in negotiations, not so much in the actual deal making or the finding of a buyer.

Lee Kantor: So that so that’s kind of a myth. Or they want you to infer that they have this at their disposal, but actually they’re using probably the same kind of portals that you mentioned earlier.

Elias Crum: They do, they do. And that’s which is fine.

Lee Kantor: But do people buy businesses through that, or is that just something that people say that they do? There’s a lot of portals out there that promise all kinds of things. But is that a is that kind of a valid place to go to sell your business? Like is is that where you sold yours through the portal?

Elias Crum: No, I, I.

Elias Crum: Didn’t sell it through a portal. I, I sold it through my network. Uh, so, but I was very well prepared. Um, so I knew, uh, what kind of buyer to look for. I knew what the right price for my business was, and I knew what my exit terms would be because that’s, uh, things you need to be aware of before you start looking for a potential buyer. So yes, people sell through those platforms. Um, I don’t think as, as much as you would imagine or as many companies do sell through the, through the platforms as you would imagine. Um, and that’s mainly because there is so many, uh, businesses on there that are just listed without a, without a good preparation. Um, I, when I drive through Atlanta, um, which, which I recently did and I just asked some of the, uh, the businesses where I frequently buy stuff like, like, uh, like a coffee shop or something. I just asked the owner, uh, what they would think their business is worth. Um, and small business owners just are not aware on how to actually evaluate their business because they, the answers I got was like, well, I have a couple of coffee machines. I have some inventory. Um, that together added up is 20 K. So I would probably think my business is worth 20 K. Well, that’s not how you do a proper valuation. Um, and I was kind of surprised, but on the other hand, they, they sell coffee, right? They don’t, they’re not used to selling a business. So, um, that’s where BestBonobos actually comes in. Um, and really helps you to do a proper valuation to do to be well prepared. It gives you tips on how to improve the valuation evaluation and the the chances of selling your company. So we’re basically guiding people throughout that sale.

Lee Kantor: So, um, a lot of times you hear a company when they sell, they, there’s a multiple, um, it was X times a certain metric. Um, do you help in that area? Like, because that seems pretty subjective.

Elias Crum: It is pretty subjective. So it’s one of the valuation estimates that we do. So we’ll give you a range after you upload, uh, your, your data. Um, the multiple is pretty subjective and it’s a very, uh, much depending on what, how you run your business. So, uh, a couple of things we will probably ask you is how dependent is the business on the owner? Because if the business is about you as the owner, it’s not going to be worth a lot. So you have to make sure that the business can run without you. Um, the other thing that’s pretty important for the multiple is your, um, monthly recurring revenue. So do you have one off projects or do you have customers that, that, that pay you on a monthly basis, which results in MRI? Um, if you have, uh, customers that are paying you monthly. Your, your multiple will be higher. So together with the multiple, we’re, um, we’re using accountancy, uh, methods as well. Um, so, so it’s based on your cash flow. So it’s actually, uh, built on those two, uh, models. So it’s not the multiple, it’s the, it’s the multiple combined with your cash flow. Prognosis.

Lee Kantor: So is this, uh, suited for more mature businesses or would it work for kind of a startup trying to get funding? Like, um, Where where would this kind of be? The who’s the ideal fit for this? Is it primarily for that kind of business that’s been around for a while in kind of traditional industries, or would it work for like an AI company or something that’s e-commerce or something that’s more, you know, a hotter, trendier, um, business.

Elias Crum: Absolutely. Good question. Well, the answer is both. So it, it works for because we, we have an AI solution. It will use your industry, uh, your industry as a basis for valuation. Um, so if you’re in e-commerce, it will look at other e-commerce companies, but if you’re an established company, um, the, uh, the, the AI will look at your, at that specific industry. So it’s not so much about which industry you’re in. It’s more about the size of your business. So it typically works for businesses that are valued up to 10 million. So it could be which is 90% of businesses, by the way. So, so if you’re a, a huge business and you’re, you’re having all kinds of holding structures and complex like, like business frameworks, etc., um, BestBonobos is probably not the right fit, but for 90% of the market, small businesses, which are between 50,000 in revenue and 10 million, um, this works perfectly fine. And that can be any e-commerce or web shop, but it could also be an established, uh, nail salon that has been around for 15 years.

Lee Kantor: But like, would your company be valued fairly in this?

Elias Crum: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: So if you put in your financials and this because you said it’s kind of a disrupter, so there’s probably not a lot of comparables. Um, how would you, how would, uh, BestBonobos do?

Elias Crum: How would best bone about itself. Do you mean.

Lee Kantor: Right? Like, would you be happy with the valuation it gave you?

Elias Crum: Which we did? Yeah, absolutely. So of course. So we’re a startup. So it’s valued completely different than the nail salon. That’s 15 years old of course. So it will typically look at your growth rate. For example, with the startup it will it will look at the growth rate. It will not look as much um, as into the revenues or EBITDA for example, because, um, these startups typically have a negative EBITDA the first few years, which is typical for an AI startup for, for example. So yes, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s usable. Um, but it’s, uh, and it’s mainly, uh, focused on, uh, businesses that are making a profit.

Lee Kantor: And so let’s, let’s get back to kind of that typical business. A lot of times people think their business is worth a lot more than it is. Is this one of those things where a person goes through the exercise of using your website, gets on, puts in all their numbers, and then they’re unpleasantly surprised at the number that pops out.

Elias Crum: We actually asked them that. So it’s a little pop up in the software which asks you, are you are you happy with this valuation? Um, so, uh, absolutely true. Uh, the majority of business owners will value their company higher than it actually is. Um, because they, uh, have, have, well, they know the business best, etc. they have, they know all the upsides, uh, and they tend to play down a little on the, on the, on the downside. Um, but, uh, the software will give you the platform best will give you the valuation. It’s actually the valuation, um, is within the free trial of seven days. So I would really like to invite people just to, to go to the website, try it out. There’s no credit card or whatsoever involved. You can just try out your valuation for free and you can, you can just play around with it and let us know if you’re happy. Because from what we have done, we have beta tested it. We have uploaded all kinds of businesses, uh, like from the startups to like more established, uh, businesses. And they, the, uh, we’ve never had a negative feedback. Of course, people hope for more, but it’s also a reality check, um, which I think is good if you’re selling your company because, uh, well, it’s the same with selling your house. You, you know what? It’s what you would like to have for it, but you don’t know if that’s the market price. So it’s a reality check. Go ahead, check it out. It’s, it’s, uh, in the free trial, so you can try it out for seven days without a credit card. Just, uh, right log log into the, uh, the software and try it out yourself.

Lee Kantor: And can you do it? Can you do it anonymously? Or is this data that you’re going to be able to like? That’s the trade off that you’re getting data from certain businesses? No.

Elias Crum: The thing is, um, the reason we’re asking for a login. Uh, so for people to sign up is that it’s very sensitive data, so we don’t want it to be stored anywhere. So we would like you to return to be able to return to the software and, uh, adjust data that you want. Like if you, if the valuation, maybe you have, you have not all your numbers at hand, for example, you need to be able to come back. So it’s, it’s, uh, it’s just a login, uh, platform. We’re not using the data. It’s, it’s the privacy. The privacy is guaranteed. We’re not using your data. We’re not selling your data. Data is yours. Um, but you need a secure platform to be able to do a valuation and to be able to come back and adjust your evaluation, for example.

Lee Kantor: Now, is this something like you mentioned. It’s out in the wild now. Have many companies gone through the whole process of getting evaluation and then actually selling?

Elias Crum: Absolutely. So we, we have just launched bonobos, uh, this month. So we’re live for two weeks. We have beta tested it and the beta testers are all very happy. Um, so, uh, the answer would be yes to that, uh, to that question. Um, for the data that we have now, right. So.

Lee Kantor: So, so far people have gotten a valuation and then sold their business for somewhere in the range of an area near the valuation like it wasn’t.

Elias Crum: Absolutely. Yes, absolutely.

Lee Kantor: So it was everything was performing like you would have hoped it would.

Elias Crum: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s the nice thing you, you, you really don’t need that broker in the majority of cases. It’s not complicated to sell your business, but you need to know the procedure. You need to know your way and the software. The platform is helping you. It’s guiding you throughout the whole process. That’s the that’s the majority. That’s the main thing. Um, that can go wrong. So the software really helps business owners to prepare for that sale.

Lee Kantor: So is the buyer when they see data from, uh, or reports maybe from your software. Are they taking that as kind of validation of obviously they’re going to do their due diligence and they’re going to come back and there’ll be a negotiation. But is this kind of acceptable for a business owner to say, okay, here’s the report I just got, and this is what it’s valued at and why? And or is it kind of holding up?

Elias Crum: Well, it’s actually nicer than that. So, um, we’re giving you that valuation. After that valuation, you’re preparing a sales brochure. So that’s actually a ten page document, which really explains everything about your business to a potential buyer. And we’re also providing you with an NDA. Um, once the the buyer gets serious and wants to get into negotiations with you, we’re helping you. The platform is helping you negotiating. It’s giving you tips on how to negotiate. And then it’s preparing the entire data room. So it’s guiding you through nine steps in preparing the data room. So you can actually upload all the documents that the buyer will probably ask for. And it’s a lot, right? So they’re asking for employee contracts. Leasing contracts. They’re asking customer contracts. So they’re asking they could be asking for up to like probably 50 documents. And we are preparing you there. So we’re actually handing you a data room in which you can upload everything and, and you can give the potential buyer access to all those documents if you want. That’s why we need the platform because it’s, it’s a very sensitive thing. So the platform is is privacy guaranteed. So it’s also GDPR because we’re also heading to Europe. Um, it’s, it’s very much focused on security because there’s a lot of sensitive data in there. And you need to be sure that that data is going to be for you and the potential buyer only.

Lee Kantor: So now, I would imagine since you started this, you’re pretty immersed in what it takes to, to sell and buy a business. What is kind of a mistake that a business owner makes? Like, is there kind of a common, are you seeing any themes or recurring, uh, mistakes that a business owner is making? Maybe it’s they haven’t documented all their processes and systems enough, or is there anything you’re seeing, uh, like what are some of the top mistakes you see a business owner making that you would recommend? Hey, this is the stuff you got to do if you’re serious about selling.

Elias Crum: Absolutely. So one, uh, one thing of course, is what you just mentioned. But the, the, the most common thing we see is that business owners wait too long. Um, and are not prepared well enough. So, um, if you talk to business owners, uh, in your network and you ask them, would you ever want to sell your company, some of them will tell you, yes, I would like to sell short term, but it actually takes 1 to 3 years preparation to be selling your company for the price and at your terms that you want. So, um, that’s the most common mistake that I, that I see is, uh, not being prepared well enough. Um, they expect it to be very easy. So the other, uh, which also leads into the second mistake that we see a lot happening is a business, um, that is depending on the owner. Small businesses tend to be built around their owner, so they don’t have processes in place or haven’t documented them. But they also are the number one sales guy in the company. They hire people. They do all kinds of financial stuff within the company. Um, and a company to be able that, that, well, a company needs to be able to run without the owner because otherwise you’re never going to be able to sell it to someone else. And that’s the, that’s the number one mistake, I would say. So the, the company that is built around the owner, especially small small business owners. And the second one would be that they’re, well, waiting too long with preparation, uh, to sell the, uh, the company.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share about maybe somebody who’s gone through this beta that went through the process and was pleasantly surprised by the outcome. Is there any kind of success story you have so far? Obviously don’t name the name of the company, but maybe the industry or what they thought was going to happen and what actually happened.

Elias Crum: Yeah. What? So this is actually a, um, um, a person, a guy that had a couple of flower stores. So the, uh, he had 3 or 4 flower stores. Um, so a florist and they were preparing to sell and he was in his 60s. So, um, he thought it would be easier to sell. So the flower stores basically were his pension, like a lot of older business owners. So he didn’t know where to start, asked for, uh, for brokers and then found out better, tried out the valuation, which is very simple because he had the documents from his account in at hand, uploaded them, had a very pleasant surprise by devaluation because he didn’t know. He basically didn’t have a clue what the stores were worth because he had he hadn’t thought about leases and the existing customers. He had a lot of business users buying those flowers on a contract with him. So he had a lot of recurring business was actually pretty, pretty surprised. Um, by the, by the outcome, the, uh, prospectus or the information memorandum or sales brochure helped him really to prepare to put his business at sale. And he actually was prepared to sell it to one of his suppliers. So he, uh, based on this shortlist that we had, we had him think about potential buyers, uh, maybe family friends, management team, suppliers, customers or whatsoever. Um, which made him, realize that one of his suppliers would be able to buy him and, uh, those people or that company actually acquired him.

Lee Kantor: And is that kind of like you mentioned, selling to your network? Is that kind of the first place to start looking for buyers or are within your network and suppliers and vendors and people that you’re already kind of working with or doing business with in some form or fashion because they’re already familiar with you, they don’t, you don’t have to educate them really.

Elias Crum: Really. And, and look alikes of those people. So it could be a member of your management team, for example. So the, uh, recent company that I sold, the marketing technology company, I actually sold to an investor together with two people of the management team that did that, did a management buy in. So, um, preparing them for a buy in actually gave the, uh, the, the reason and the confidence to the investor that it was a great company to acquire, because if a management team believes in the company and wants to take a stake in the company, the the other investor is very well can be very assured that it’s going to be kind of going to be ran very well because the management team is taken over. So yes, it’s your it could be your management team. It could be friends or family, it could be suppliers. Uh, it could be customers, it could be competitors. And we are guiding you. Our platform is guiding you throughout that process. So it’s helping you to select those people, those companies, and it’s going to look for look alikes of those companies because, um, based on AI, if we have a long list of companies that you came up with, we can actually look for people that you haven’t thought about but are actually in the same ballpark or are like in the same industry.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need?

Elias Crum: That’s what a broker does, right? Broker does exactly the same, right?

Lee Kantor: Right. But you’re just leaning on technology.

Elias Crum: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: Rather than BNI meetings.

Elias Crum: Right. That’s actually that’s actually pretty right. And, um, I, because this is a true disruption. Um, the price is as well because we are a software platform, so we don’t charge a percentage of your actual sale price. We just charge a monthly fee for the software, which is 300 bucks for just as long as you need us. So the typical sale takes anywhere between 6 and 18 months. So let’s say it’s 18 months. You’re paying 18 times that 300 bucks instead of maybe 10 or 15% of the entire sale price of your company.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? Uh, how can we help you? Are you just looking for people looking to exit, or do you have partnerships with business brokers? Like who is kind of your like they’re your referral partners and who are your end user partners?

Elias Crum: So we, um, we are looking for both. So we’re looking for people that are at the point of exiting or thinking about an exit within the next, well, maybe 18 months, um, together with our partners and we actually are searching for partners, um, which could be business brokers, but they could also be accountancy firms or bookkeeping firms because bookkeeping firms that have a list of companies of, of, uh, actual clients always have a percentage that they want to exit, uh, with. So they, the, the maybe 10 or 20% of those companies. So every company gets sold on average within ten years. So if an accountancy firm or a bookkeeping firm is serving like 100 people or 100 companies, there will always be around ten that that are somewhere thinking about an exit. So, um, we’re looking for referral partners. Those referral partners get, uh, a kickback from us. So they get a revenue share, but we’re also giving them a reduction of price reduction to their end users. So it’s a win win for those kinds of, uh, of referral partners.

Lee Kantor: Oh, so they can kind of white label the offering to their existing customers who are thinking about exiting.

Elias Crum: Yeah, they can offer it. And what we’re not white labeling yet. So we’re thinking about doing that somewhere this year, offering like a master license. But for now, they’re a referral partner and they get a special discount for their clients. And on top of that, we’re giving them a revenue share.

Lee Kantor: Wow. Um, good stuff. So if somebody wants to learn more. Have a more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, whether they’re exiting or they’re a CPA or accounting firm or bookkeeper, what is the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Elias Crum: The best way to connect is bestbonobos.com. Um, and we have a contact form there. Or just shoot me an email on Elias at host.com. Um, or send me a LinkedIn invite. There’s not too much Elias Crumb. So I think there’s only only two and only one of those is the co-founder of best Bonobo.

Lee Kantor: And that’s b e s t b o n o b o s.com. Elias, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Elias Crum: Thank you very much, Lea. It was a pleasure being here.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.

From Humble Beginnings to $40M: Empowering Women Entrepreneurs Through Peer Leadership

by

Atlanta Business Radio
Atlanta Business Radio
From Humble Beginnings to $40M: Empowering Women Entrepreneurs Through Peer Leadership
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In this episode of  Atlanta Business Radio, host Lee Kantor interviews Sherry Deutschmann, founder and CEO of BrainTrust. She shares her journey from cleaning bathrooms and being a single mom to building and selling a $40M company. Deutschmann created BrainTrust to help women entrepreneurs grow successful businesses through small peer groups (“Vaults”) where members openly share financials, challenges, and experiences. The organization supports women at different revenue stages (starting at $100K) and focuses on real business growth—not networking or social support. BrainTrust operates in several cities and is expanding to Atlanta, aiming to help more women reach $1M+ in revenue and achieve financial independence.

Sherry Deutschmann is a serial entrepreneur, author, and passionate advocate for entrepreneurship. In 2019, she founded BrainTrust, a company dedicated to helping women entrepreneurs grow their businesses.

Prior to founding BrainTrust, she was founder and CEO of LetterLogic, Inc., a company she grew to $40 Million and sold in 2016. LetterLogic was named an INC 5000 company (one of the fastest-growing privately held businesses in the US) for ten consecutive years.

She attributes the success of LetterLogic to its unique culture in which the needs of the employees came before those of the customer or shareholder. That culture led Sherry and LetterLogic to be featured in the New York Times, Forbes Magazine, Business Leaders, INC, and Fast Company.

She was honored by President Barack Obama as a White House Champion of Change in 2016. Sherry’s book, Lunch with Lucy – Maximize Profits by Investing in your People, was released in March 2020 and received national honors, winning both the 2021 Gold Foreword Indies Business Book Award and the 2021 Bronze Axiom Business Book Award.

Connect with Sherry on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Sherry explains how her journey from poverty to building a $40M company shaped her mission to help other women entrepreneurs succeed.
  • Why many business communities exclude early-stage founders and how BrainTrust fills that gap.
  • The importance of honest financial transparency among founders to drive real business growth.
  • How peer-to-peer problem solving can be more powerful than traditional mentorship or advice.
  • Why diverse business backgrounds in a group can lead to better and more creative solutions.
  • The challenges women founders face when balancing business leadership with family responsibilities.
  • How structured peer groups (Vaults) help founders solve real operational problems like hiring, sales performance, or employee issues.
  • Why building a million-dollar business is rare but achievable with the right support system.
  • How strong entrepreneurial communities can unlock opportunities like partnerships, funding, and connections.
  • Why the expansion of BrainTrust into Atlanta aims to strengthen the local women-founder ecosystem.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studio in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio, brought to you by Kennesaw State University’s Executive MBA program. The accelerated degree program for working professionals looking to advance their career and enhance their leadership skills. And now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, CSU’s executive MBA program. Without them, we wouldn’t be sharing these important stories. Today on the show, we have the founder and CEO at BrainTrust, Sherry Deutschmann. Welcome.

Sherry Deutschmann: Thankfully. It’s a pleasure to be with you today.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us a little bit about BrainTrust. How are you serving folks?

Sherry Deutschmann: Well, BrainTrust is a peer organization for women founders. It’s similar to EO and to the Women’s Presidents organization, except it meets the woman founder where she is and her business cycle. And it’s it’s, uh, dedicated to seeing that more women have a chance to build a financial independence, wealth, and then the influence that comes from having a successful business. So we’re already in Nashville and in Charlotte and are excited to be coming to Atlanta.

Lee Kantor: So what was the genesis of the idea? You know, what’s the origin story?

Sherry Deutschmann: Well, I am I was a single mom and, uh, had only a high school education. I grew up in the mountains of North Carolina, and I was cleaning toilets. I was really, literally cleaned gas station bathrooms and cleaned house for the wealthy families who had homes on on Beech Mountain. And that’s how I made a living until I moved to Nashville, Tennessee, thinking I was going to be a star, which is a lot harder than you might think. So after I moved to Nashville with no, no, really, no way to really make ends meet, I ended, I started a career in sales and grew that company for another, for another business owner, to about 15 million in revenue, and then got discouraged with the way they ran their business and decided to start my own, competing with them. And so I grew that company to 40 million in annual recurring revenue with no debt. And that path to entrepreneurship changed my life forever. It gave me influence. I was featured in the New York Times for how I ran my business, which was very unique. It led me to be invited to address Congress on why the minimum wage, actually the business case for why the minimum wage should be higher. And then that led me to be named a white House champion of change by President Obama. And so that successful business gave me a megaphone, and I’ve used it. And so now, you know, turning my experience and selling that company to private equity in 2016 to now making sure that more women have a chance to to do what I did. It’s the most meaningful work of my life.

Lee Kantor: Now here in Atlanta, we worked with a lot of women organizations, and I was shocked to know. And then maybe you can tell me if this is still accurate, that it not very many women led businesses turn into million dollar businesses, that that’s a rarity. Is that still true?

Sherry Deutschmann: It is true, sadly. I think only about 2% of women owned businesses has ever reached a million in revenue. But Lee, only only 7% of men reach that threshold. So it’s it’s a pretty, pretty big deal for anybody to get it to $1 million.

Lee Kantor: So now what is your vision of this organization like? Why did you choose to form it in the manner that you have? Because, you know, like you mentioned, there are some other people in the space. There’s other kind of networking, there’s other incubators, there’s other other things that do some of what you do, what makes kind of brain trust kind of a unique spot.

Sherry Deutschmann: It it was designed by a woman founder for women founders, seeing the unique situation that we find ourselves in. So we are not just running companies, we are running the kids to daycare and to soccer practice. We’re running households and our businesses. And so the the makeup has to be very different for us. Um, and from my experience in EO, um, I’m still a member of EO, the entrepreneurs organization, and found it to be really powerful in helping me build a $40 million business. But you can’t join those organizations. That organization until you get to a million in revenue. And that left about 14 million women out in the cold. And there was no organization out there that was really, um. Getting rid of the fluff when it comes to women’s organizations. So when I say, you know, we don’t have fluff, our members are required to every month in their small group meetings, they’re required to report to each other out loud their revenue last month. So it’s kind of a antihbs policy, uh, to let everybody know that we’re here to build powerful, successful businesses. And we have to, um, be honest about where our company really is at that point. And so for a member to apply, She has to attach her PNL because we want to know exactly where she is, so that we can best know how to help her get to $1 million, or to 10 million, or to 100 million.

Lee Kantor: Now, is it a focus on any specific industry? Because there’s a lot of tech groups out here in Atlanta, or is this industry agnostic?

Sherry Deutschmann: It is industry agnostic. And Lee, you pointed out something really important. There are a lot of organizations, especially on the on the tech side for founders and women specifically. But we believe that a woman who owns a nail salon, that her business is just as vital as someone building a big tech business. And so if we can help her get her business from maybe 200,000 a month to 700,000 a month, that’s game changing for her family. And so our members are some are our lawyers. We have a plastic surgeon, a couple of physicians, women who are building tech businesses, women who are builders, architects, um, on big health care companies. So it’s just any type of business, uh, that a woman is in that is a legally, legally established entity. That is, um, where the woman founder is herself, very driven and dedicated to the process.

Lee Kantor: Now, you mentioned, uh, they have to come with financials. Is there a minimum amount of financials to be shown in order to play, or is it, you know, as long as you’ve gone, if you’re serious enough to kind of put financials together, then, you know, we’re going to kind of let you in.

Sherry Deutschmann: Well, no, we’re we have four tiers of membership. Um, at the heart, it is what we call the vault. So we call our groups and the process vault because it’s a safe place that holds, uh, valuable, uh, information. But, um, for vault membership, you have to be more than $100,000 in revenue. And then once you surpass a million, you go into a key club vault with only with women. Over a million in revenue. And then we have a virtual offering for a woman anywhere in the world who wants to join. And she has to be at least half a million. But then there were so many women that came to us that are desperately trying to get to that 100,000 threshold, that want to be part of the community and to get some of the the workshops and the other events that we provide. So we have insider status for them. Um, and that has proven to be very valuable to them as well.

Lee Kantor: Now, can you walk us through what’s it look like when you attend one of your events? What can we expect?

Sherry Deutschmann: Well, the so there are the main focus of brain trust are these small groups that we call vaults. They’re just seven women to a group. And you meet once a month in total Potentiality, and each of you shares the three most critical things going on in your business right now. And then the other women ask questions to get to a true understanding of the problem itself, and not just the symptoms. Um, and then each of the other women shares her experience related to that particular problem. So, um, there’s no advice given. It’s strictly speaking, from experience. Uh, and that that meeting is a four hour meeting, um, where they bring their problems and their opportunities to the table. So it could be something like my salespeople aren’t performing. I don’t know what to do. And then the questions might be, well, what is the pay structure and what kind of training did they have and what are their quotas? And then the women sharing their experience around either being a salesperson and what worked for them, incentivizing them to sell, or from a woman who has multiple salespeople. Um, and being able to talk about the the structure that she has for them. Or it could be that one of the women has, um, an employee who’s been stealing and, uh, talks to the other members about how to address that legally and then compassionately. So it’s just any problem that the woman is facing in her business she brings to that table. And what is said there around that table stays there. They cannot share it with, um, a partner or spouse. It stays right there in the in the safety of that group.

Lee Kantor: And the, the the, um, the vaults are not for selling to each other. That’s not part of there’s this isn’t a Leeds club. This is something where I’m just looking, you know, to get other people’s insights into what I’m going through.

Sherry Deutschmann: Yeah. In fact, we, um, the women can do business with each other. But we, you know, put some strong parameters around that too. Um, so this is not for networking. In fact, we have an informational session once a quarter to invite women to come and hear what the program is and how it works. And it’s and we state then it’s very critical for them to know this is not a networking organization. It’s also not a support group. Um, it’s not a place to just come and complain about your problems. It’s a place for you to be very vulnerable and real about your problems and help each other overcome them.

Lee Kantor: Now you’re in several locations. You’re coming to Atlanta. Is there a benefit of having multiple locations, like do the people in Atlanta get access to the the women in the other markets, or is each kind of market its own entity?

Sherry Deutschmann: No. Uh, we have a a technology that connects all the women to one another. In fact, uh, Lee A month ago yesterday, one of our members in North Carolina reached out to me and said, hey, I need to borrow $80,000. I need it for just 21 days. I’ll pay 5% interest, but I’m just as a bridge to a bigger loan that she was getting from the state of North Carolina. And so I just encouraged her to post it on our member portal. By the next morning at noon, she had the money from another member who’s in New York who, um, read her post and said, oh, I can I can jump in and help. So that’s the third time that’s happened, which has been remarkable. But you are connected to all the women in all of the network. And so the more members we have, the greater the brain trust. You know, the the larger the group of the pool of lived experiences to help a woman with that particular problem that she’s facing.

Lee Kantor: Now, what if one of the members needs kind of more mentorship. Is there a way to get more mentorship, or does it just happen kind of organically in the flow of each of the vault meetings?

Sherry Deutschmann: No. Occasionally, um, in fact, quite often a woman will encounter a problem that the other women in her group don’t have specific experience around. And so in that case, they let us at corporate know that. And we handpick a group of members to meet with her virtually, uh, members that we know have experience in that particular area. Um, and then they have a one hour virtual meeting to help her with that problem. But we also have subject matter experts, um, in the form of champions, uh, sponsors, we call them champions that will come into the individual groups to help, uh, by sharing their particular expertise around a topic. And, uh, that is, you know, free to the to the women members and can be very valuable to them.

Lee Kantor: Now, how do you find the kind of person you put as boots on the ground in a given market? It’s hard to grow a network like you’re doing and create community in the manner you hope to.

Sherry Deutschmann: Yeah, I think it is. Uh, the members themselves who tell women in other cities about us and in this particular situation in, in Atlanta, um, the e.y. Ernst and Young, um, has a really powerful network of women who’ve who’ve been honored by E.y. In the past for their companies. And I was a recipient. And another woman in Atlanta who had won that same award came to me and said, Atlanta needs this so desperately. If you come to Atlanta, I will help you get this off the ground. And then she started making introductions, and those people introduced me to more. And, uh, I think we’re going to have quite a Uh, extraordinary start there.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to see how this progresses because Atlanta’s economy is so diverse. There’s so many, um, people doing business in a variety of ways. There’s so much opportunity, I think, for women to really come together and help each other get to new levels. Um, I’m excited for you.

Sherry Deutschmann: Yeah. You know, there was a situation a few years ago where we were very careful with the curation of these groups. And one of the members there who has a patent on a product in multiple countries and, uh, has a serious potential to be a billionaire, told me later that she was a little upset when I put someone in her group that built charcuterie boards, and she said she was thinking, what in the world can I learn from her? Only to find out by the second meeting that that other woman had been in, uh, in working in PE and in private equity for years and had extraordinary connections for her, but also experiencing the fundraising side that this woman didn’t have but desperately needed. So we’re careful about the curation, and yet we ask a woman to have an open mind because, um, this process works with the diversity around the table. And when I say diversity, I mean in every potential way. Um, diverse. Um, from it, from the type of business to the age of the founder to ethnicity, um, the grade, the greater the diversity, the more likely it is that a solution to a problem will arise that you would not have considered.

Lee Kantor: Now in the vault are there? Once they get to a certain size, do you create a second one? Like how how does it kind of expand because you mentioned competition. Like do you allow competitors in in a given vault?

Sherry Deutschmann: No, a competitor competitors cannot be in the same vault. And that that is true just for our in-person groups. There’s just seven to a group. So in Nashville we have 30 some groups, um, five already in Charlotte. Um, and but there might be other ways that a woman, um, has a conflict. And so we’re careful about the curation. And once we determine the seven women that we think should go in a group, we send the bios of all seven to each other, and then they can say, well, no, she isn’t in conflict with me, but her husband owns a competing business. And so no, she can’t be in my group or sometimes, and especially in Nashville, Nashville’s a little big town. And so there have been times when a woman said, well, her business doesn’t compete with me, but she’s dating my ex-husband, so she can’t be in my group. So we have to take things like that into consideration.

Lee Kantor: Well, you’re just trying to make them human and not just kind of cookie cutter.

Sherry Deutschmann: Right? Exactly. And but in our virtual groups, our virtual groups, um, are all affinity based. So if you are a fashion retailer, you would you would have the option of being only with other fashion retailers, knowing that you’re not in the same geographical space and that you would have the same jargon, likely, you know, the same problems. And so your ability to help each other grow and then get to scale quicker is greater because you’re all in the same industry. So for the virtual groups, they have that option.

Lee Kantor: So once you’re a member, then you have access to all the groups. And then you could decide which ones are appropriate for you.

Sherry Deutschmann: Yes. So once you get to 100,000, you can get out of the insider bucket and move into the vault bucket. And then once you hit a million, um, at our annual, we have a big annual celebration that’s coming up April 1st. We honor the woman who grew her revenue by the greatest dollar amount. By the greatest percentage. The woman who added the most jobs. The woman who had the most profit. And then we also, uh, award all the women that hit the million dollar mark. Um, she gets a beautiful little 14 carat gold pendant with a key on it, and then she moves over into a different group of women. Just over a million in in Nashville. We have 60 women in that category, and they’ve grown from, um, 1 million to 10 million and some now at 20 and 30 million. Um, and so it’s at the point now where we’re attracting women who are already at 20, 30 and 40 million who say, oh, I like the differences here with brain trust. And that’s the peer organization that I want to be a part of.

Lee Kantor: So, um, we talked about how you’re you have boots on the ground here in Atlanta, and I guess you’re in the process of forming some of those groups right now.

Sherry Deutschmann: We are. Well, we’ll have our first informational sessions, which we call the lowdown. We have the first ones in Atlanta, um, this month on the 26th and 27th at three different locations. So we invite women to come to hear what we are and what we’re not. Um, how the process works. Uh, there’s a Q&A session, and then from that point, we send applications, um, and then start the, the interview process and the vetting process entirely.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more and have a more substantive conversation with somebody on the team, is there a website they can go to, uh, you know, to put their name in the hat and to get information, maybe attend the event and things like that.

Sherry Deutschmann: Yeah, it’s our, our, our Braintrust org is the website, but they’re also welcome to email me directly at Sherry d e r r y at our Braintrust org, and I will respond personally.

Lee Kantor: And then, um, on the socials. It’s our brain trust on all the socials.

Sherry Deutschmann: Yes.

Lee Kantor: And same with LinkedIn.

Sherry Deutschmann: Yes.

Lee Kantor: All right. Well, Sherry, I am so excited for you. Um, I think it’s so important, uh, what you’re doing. It’s just really a gift to the city. And thank you for thinking of Atlanta. Uh, coming here for with, uh, something like this. This is a wonderful community, and I hope everyone out there checks it out at our braintrust. Sherry, thank you again for sharing your story. You’re doing such important work, and we appreciate you.

Sherry Deutschmann: Thank you. Lee, it’s been an honor to be with you.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.

Inside the Real Estate Market: Trends Shaping 2026 and Beyond

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Inside the Real Estate Market: Trends Shaping 2026 and Beyond
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee speaks with Neil Cohen, president of Barsh and Cohen, a boutique law firm specializing in title, escrow, and default services for the real estate finance industry. Cohen shares insights on the current real estate landscape, noting early signs of change with slightly lower residential interest rates and a potential wave of commercial real estate defaults as loans reset at higher rates. Cohen also discusses affordable housing models, deed-restricted properties, and the growing trend of younger generations choosing to rent rather than own. Despite market uncertainties, he remains optimistic about the long-term fundamentals of real estate, emphasizing patience, relationships, and disciplined investment strategies as keys to success.

Neil Cohen, President of Barsh and Cohen.

He has been involved for many years in the real estate, lending, and foreclosure fields. He has also served as a board member of various community groups.

In addition to being active in these areas of law, he has been part of two nonprofit agencies that work closely with the public on issues related to education and the health of children and their families.

His objective is to assist his clients by offering knowledgeable and objective legal advice.

Connect with Neil on LinkedIn and Facebook.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Overview of the current real estate market outlook, including early signs of activity in 2026.
  • How interest rate changes may impact residential and commercial real estate.
  • Potential rise in commercial real estate defaults as older low-rate loans reset at higher rates.
  • The ongoing impact of remote and hybrid work on office space demand and city occupancy.
  • Challenges of converting vacant office buildings into residential housing.
  • Discussion of affordable housing models, including deed-restricted homes and income limits.
  • Insights into why many younger adults are choosing to rent instead of own homes.
  • The effect of low mortgage rates (sub-3.5%) locking homeowners in place and slowing housing supply.
  • Why relationships, patience, and timing are key principles in real estate investing.
  • Long-term perspective that real estate fundamentals remain strong, despite short-term market challenges.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have the president of Barsh and Cohen, Neil Cohen. Welcome.

Neil Cohen: Thank you for that gracious introduction, Lee. Glad to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Barsh and Cohen, how you serving folks?

Neil Cohen: We’re a boutique law firm that’s in the title and escrow and default industry. We cover the New England states, and I have a collaborative with other people that have similar philosophies and institutions that cover the Mid-Atlantic and other areas of the United States, and we’re basically that full service title and escrow cradle to grave default solution for the real estate finance industry.

Lee Kantor: So here we are, um, at the still in the first quarter of 2026. What is your state of real estate in your mind today? What are you seeing out there?

Neil Cohen: I am a I’m the eternal optimist. How’s that sound? And optimism is that it’s starting to actually heat up in both ways, which would be really not making a decision. You’ve seen recently some lower, uh, interest rates for the residential world. You’ve seen a little bit a little bit of an uptick in default, as well as other people that have innuendos into our world are seeing certain things. I’m more of a feel guy. I don’t love the statistical analysis because I don’t always think that when you use that, as they would say, back in the baseball days with Moneyball, sabermetrics, when you look at sabermetrics, I don’t think you have the ability to get the entire picture. I did have a conversation with a colleague that is in the commercial space, the chief commercial lender at a local mutual bank in Massachusetts. And I said, it’s coming. And she said, what’s coming? And I said, plethora of defaults. When all these interest rates reset in the next 15 months of commercial deals that were five years at a low rate when there was 98% occupancy, 2% vacancy, and now there’s 60% occupancy, 40% vacancy, and the rate’s going to adjust to 225 basis points over the federal Home Loan bank of Boston interest rate.

Lee Kantor: So are you are you not seeing kind of this return to office that a lot of the larger corporations were clamoring for.

Neil Cohen: So I am seeing it with people I know in the institutions and industries, in the financial services. You know, Boston’s a big hub for that. And these people are coming and going, and they’re still somehow managing to figure out a way to skirt the entirety of being in the office all the time, whether that’s go to the gym in the morning at their big Boston office workout, work for a little while, and then make sure they’re out before the traffic and work remotely from home. My institution has always been an in-person type of facilitation. I like collaboration. I do see a lot of people that are still while it’s return to office, it’s 65% of the time, not 100% of the time.

Lee Kantor: But our companies. Just not, um, leasing office spaces. I mean, what is behind kind of the ratios you’re describing? I mean, that’s a big drop from 98 to 65. And if it’s not because of return to office, is it just less companies see the value of even having an office.

Neil Cohen: I can tell you that three of my larger institutional clients have either renewed leases at a substantial. Subtraction of square footage. And less space as they renew or have gone 100% remote because they don’t need the overhead. You know, there’s been inflation, there’s been, um, discord in the industry. There’s been, you know, people talking about repurposing industrial and office space in the city. And I think that’s a real hot button topic that people have overlooked in terms of, um, you know, what do you do with this vacant space?

Lee Kantor: Right. But it’s not that simple to just take an office building and make it into condos. I mean, the plumbing is all messed up. It takes a it’s you don’t just flip a switch and say, now there are condos.

Neil Cohen: No, you absolutely do not. There’s a long there’s a runway to that. There’s an expense to that. There’s a, um, basis of. You know, rehabilitation that needs to take place. But there are if you go through downtown, it has not, in my opinion, gotten to the level of where it was pre-pandemic, nor has it seen its, um, recharge in terms of full space. I have a client that has a $75 million office building in downtown Boston, and hasn’t been able to lease any new space in two and a half years.

Lee Kantor: So what do you see? Like, what’s the way out of this? I mean, it just seems like this is such a tricky challenge because you have so many people that are looking for some sort of affordable housing. You have the downtowns of both cities kind of hollowed out because nobody is like, you know, you’re dropping if you if if every large city is like Boston and they’re dropping, you know, 35%, 30% of the amount of bodies that are downtown, that has a domino effect to all the businesses that are downtown. Uh, it’s it’s really a tough situation that a lot of these big cities are in when it comes to commercial real estate.

Neil Cohen: Um, I couldn’t agree with you more in the sense that. It affects, um. It affects the office space. It is it. It affects the investors. It affects cap rates. It affects debt to income ratio in terms of debt service coverage. It affects rehabilitation. I don’t. I don’t know if what the specific answer is, but I think there’s going to be. Pain along the way and it’s going to be more painful than joyful.

Lee Kantor: So you’re not seeing the cranes back out?

Neil Cohen: I am not seeing the cranes back out to the extent they were. I think a lot of that has to do with that. The deals that people were doing don’t pencil out anymore based on higher, um, cost of funds, higher costs of development along with higher labor costs. I think that there there has to be some, uh, regeneration of those numbers and those deals that didn’t pencil out at different times earlier on. And unfortunately, I’m not sure that, um. I’m not sure how we see that, to be honest with you. I’m. I like to say that, um. That they’re smarter people. There are smarter people than me that know more than I do and have some of the answers, but probably not all the answers.

Lee Kantor: Well, let’s change gears and leave commercial and let’s go back to go to residential. Is there a place for these kind of tiny homes in today’s residential, um, kind of landscape? Is that a place where we can kind of create homes for people who can afford it? Maybe they’re smaller, but at least they’re homes that they own. And it’s not they’re not renters anymore. They can build equity in and resell those things down the line and build wealth. Um, are you seeing any kind of, uh, effort to build more communities of tiny homes?

Neil Cohen: Um, when you say tiny homes, I think of tiny homes. Is the TV show on A&E? Is that.

Lee Kantor: Well, they have the smaller homes that just they’re not kind of the the homes that exist now. They’re much smaller footprint. You know, some of them are being, you know, it’s, you know, less than 1000ft² homes. They’re they’re very small and they have a smaller footprint. But a person could live there. They could, you know, uh, own it. It’s theirs. They could build equity with it. Uh, it’s not kind of low rent. It’s an actual home that’s theirs.

Neil Cohen: Right? Um. Not so recently. There’s been a push for ADUs.

Lee Kantor: Right?

Neil Cohen: In the Commonwealth.

Lee Kantor: So that’s like in the backyard of somebody or in their their property.

Neil Cohen: Yep. Um. But the tiny home, per se, you know, you found a little corner lot that you can carve out to build 1000 square foot, single story ranch isn’t isn’t really on the forefront, and I don’t see a lot of people discussing it. Not not in this area. Not in New England.

Lee Kantor: So how are they dealing with, like, people are clamoring for more affordable housing? How are they addressing that?

Neil Cohen: Um. From a political sense, I think that stems from the, um, individuals that are looking for rent control.

Lee Kantor: Right. But from a I maybe explain to me because I never understood affordable housing is affordable housing where you’re just renting somebody a cheap apartment and you’re kind of, um, holding that price down. But they never own anything. They’re just renting and they’ll just be replaced by somebody else that’s renting. Um.

Neil Cohen: That’s a more of a, um, restricted rental. And people get from a rent control perspective, from an affordable housing perspective, there are interesting, um, bylaws throughout the Commonwealth for each city and town as to what level they have in terms of, um, affordable housing units that are available to income restricted owners.

Lee Kantor: But is ultimately when you have affordable housing and you say, okay, we’re going to make this area have X number of homes that are affordably housed. Isn’t it just the nature of capitalism that if that area becomes desirable, the house will become less affordable? It’ll become more valuable?

Neil Cohen: So the way. Yeah. Well, if there’s a deed restriction. No. And you’re not, and you’re stymieing the individual’s ability to generate wealth and real estate because they’re not afforded the same upside as someone else.

Lee Kantor: Oh, so that’s how they do it. They just don’t allow them to profit.

Neil Cohen: They they restrict the margin of sale.

Lee Kantor: Is that true? That’s how it’s done.

Neil Cohen: It’s it’s there’s usually a deed rider. The deed rider says you can have X amount of income and then the um resale, there’s a resale formula and it can only go up X amount because the value can only increase x amount. It’s the same idea when these people that have purchased this feel as though they have equity, and they want to get some form of additional home equity line of credit or margin or some type of account where they are able to borrow. And those people then in turn, um. Do not get the full upside of where it is.

Lee Kantor: Because that’s just how the deed was written. So they’re not allowed to kind of profit from the, the value around. So what stops us? Like why would those people keep trying to make it nice. Why would they keep mowing their lawn and doing all this stuff? The upkeep of their house, if they know there’s no upside? And wouldn’t that kind of be a domino effect that would affect all the other houses nearby? Because all of a sudden these are not as nice houses?

Neil Cohen: There is a, um, there is an upside. It’s just not as large. So if growth can be X, it’s restricted to Y in terms of resale. And uh, I still believe in the pride of ownership and that people are um. Are people are still have pride in, uh, you know, a white picket fence, a nice lawn and flowers by the doorstep.

Lee Kantor: Right. But if there’s upside, I understand if I have a sense of ownership and I’m going to benefit if if I make my house look nice and the whole neighborhood looks nice, we’re all going to benefit. But if I have a limited upside, you know, I don’t know if I’m going to, you know, mow my lawn every week. Maybe once a month is good enough.

Neil Cohen: Um, yeah. I hear what you’re saying. I just, I think that there’s such, um, a runway to obtain one of these affordable houses through a housing authority where you have to go to class, you have to do certain things to get the down payment assistance, to get the growth, to get the restricted price. You know, these people, they a lot of times will call it, um, 40 be in Massachusetts. They restrict the housing and there’s income restricted units. So they have to meet a criteria in order for the builders to build other houses in the neighborhood, they have to make two of the 18 houses in the subdivision affordable with with a deed restriction. And, and these people have to go into a lottery and they feel fortunate and they understand that without this there wouldn’t be homeownership. And they do have a pride of ownership. And they do have a feeling, a sense of of of that it’s theirs. And circumstances change. While they can only make X amount on their upside of a resale because there’s a resale restriction, income levels change. And at that point there’s a different pool of people to where sometimes, you know, you’ve gotten out of that affordable pool, you’ve had a change in circumstance, and the change in circumstance allows you to spend more money, and you take your limited upside and move into something that’s unrestricted.

Lee Kantor: So Is it is it working? Is that kind of helping alleviate some of the the desire for a lot of folks to move into that first home?

Neil Cohen: Um, so my personal opinion is that I don’t know whether it is or is not working because I don’t have a great feeling as to the I don’t have enough information to make a determination one way or the other. I will tell you that dealing in the multifamily space of commercial real estate, that this generation of of people in the 25 to 3840 year old range. I personally feel like they don’t want to be homeowners. They would rather rent something with bells and whistles, and somebody else’s problem of keeping the lights on in terms of the switch is broken. I don’t have to fix it. Then be a homeowner, have a mortgage, and worry about, uh, replacing the hot water tank.

Lee Kantor: So you’re seeing a lot more individuals comfortable with renting, maybe renting longer than they have in previous generations. And that’s okay, because they want the flexibility. They want to be able to leave when they want, and they want to have all the bells and whistles they refer to. Yes.

Neil Cohen: As well as there are some people that haven’t returned to the office and their job doesn’t require them and never will require them to go back to the office. Their corporate companies have eliminated the need to pay downtown rents, and they’re living in areas that are, you know, warm 363 days a year, the two cold front days they tolerate, and then they go and, you know, they’re in the sun, they’re in a lower state that doesn’t have, uh, you know, as much, uh, inflation or overhead or costs or cost of living to be higher, and they’re satisfied with that. And they’re also transient. After a while they’re like, hey, I don’t want to be in Florida. I want to move to Texas, right? Okay. I don’t want to be in Texas. I want to be in California. So if I have to work from, you know, 4 a.m. to. 2 p.m. my Pacific Standard Time, I’ll do it. And then I can be out in the afternoon. So there’s a there are a lot of mitigating factors as to what you’re going to see in terms of the housing stock. One of the biggest problems we have is that the markets are locked. Think of how many people are in sub 3.5% mortgages. That aren’t going to move because they don’t want to give that up.

Lee Kantor: So you’re not seeing any you don’t see the interest rates going down to those levels any time soon.

Neil Cohen: Uh, 3.5%. No, I would, I would love it. Would be great. Stimulate the market for a title and escrow firm like you wouldn’t believe. You’d see a lot of the last three years of people that have paid higher interest rates would refinance their purchase money, mortgages. There may be some stimulation in the in the, in the movement of these institutions that would allow for, um, you know, transactions along with other smaller ups, other smaller items that would allow for upside, if you know what I’m saying.

Lee Kantor: So now is there a rule of thumb, like when interest rates go down 1%, that’s when you start, when the math starts mapping, when maybe it’s time to, um, refinance.

Neil Cohen: I don’t know if that would be from a, from a lawyer’s perspective or a title and escrow guy. I don’t know what the numbers are. If I had more in depth knowledge of the underwriting process, the actual expense to the borrower, from a lender’s perspective, it might be easier to quantify that or qualify that from my perspective. Uh, a refinance or a rewrite of your mortgage or additional indebtedness is best to when it’s needed in terms of your personal preference. Like to me, the my house would never be considered an ATM. Oftentimes, as the market increases, people, uh, use their equity faster than others. They will take it out and use it, and some of them will inevitably reinvest it in their house, and some of them will use it to go on a vacation to the Caribbean, you know, and that’s a that’s a personal preference. And my personal preference, again, is, is to manage economics in the most advantageous way. For me, my business, my family and who I am.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Neil Cohen: What do we need more of? I need more good people in my life in terms of people to network with, to bounce ideas off of relationships, to build throughout the industry, throughout the state, throughout the United States, throughout the world. I’m a guy that wants to talk to everybody.

Lee Kantor: Are you seeing more young people getting involved in real estate?

Neil Cohen: Nope. It’s like the oldest generational thing that there possibly could be. If you look at the average age of a loan officer that lends residential money or commercial money, it’s north of 47.5 years old right there aren’t you know, when I’m at a family firm right now. My dad started this. It’s a generational aspect of this. It’s building relationships and building knowledge to the point where there are people that when we when when my dad first got in this business, there were people that went into training programs at financial institutions that trained you on all types of skill sets in the commercial world. Underwriting, lending, sales, recovery. They don’t have those programs anymore. The financial institutions don’t. A lot of people go into a commercial world and they become a relationship manager or an underwriter, one or the other, and then decide they want to pry the other aspects of the business. They want to be a lender and they don’t know how to be a lender. So they have to learn how to be a lender. There’s no training programs left in this business. And the young people and I use that as a broad based scope, depending on what age you consider that the that the the. And I’m not old at 53 but the younger demographics are more interested in, um, a quicker ascension to the top and to leadership as opposed to learning the, the nitty gritty and the small pegs going into the round holes and all of that stuff.

Lee Kantor: But you’re still optimistic. You you still see, um, aspects of real estate where there’s opportunity, um, maybe different markets are better than others, but still kind of the fundamentals of real estate still are attractive to you.

Neil Cohen: The fundamentals of real estate are strong 98% of the time they’ll be strong. Um, the other couple percent of the time is more likely to be greed, where they people will get over their skis, and that ends up torturing or putting stress on the on the numbers in the industry. So once there’s so when there’s a lot of the people you’re going to see are generational real estate people and that and it gets passed down from generation to generation. And they there are people that want to do more than the generation before them did. I have a generational client that’s third generation in terms of real estate. The first generation bought, uh, distress, the second generation bought distress and some, uh, undervalued assets and put value into them. And the third generation is turning those assets into self-fulfilling, less managing triple net commercial spaces in the industrial world.

Lee Kantor: So there’s always opportunity just you have to know where to look.

Neil Cohen: You have to you have to be you have to bide your time, be patient and understand the pitfalls of being too aggressive.

Lee Kantor: And there’s certain times where the best move is not to make a move 100%.

Neil Cohen: Uh, I will go back again and give kudos to my father. Your first loss is your best loss, and that’s often displayed in. You know, I didn’t make a move, and I lost out on an opportunity that I thought was going to be better. And that opportunity that was better went up in smoke. And the opportunity that I remained in is stable and Generally generally a good investment.

Lee Kantor: So, Neal, if somebody wants to learn more about your firm or connect with you, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Neil Cohen: Best way to connect is email. I love email Neal. At BRC hyphen.com LinkedIn’s a good way or give me a call in the office. I still like to use the telephone. 617332 4700.

Lee Kantor: All right. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Neil Cohen: Thank you for having me. I appreciate being on.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

The CEO Mindset for Career Growth

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
The CEO Mindset for Career Growth
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee interviews Michelle Enjoli, a career strategist on how to become the CEO of your career. She shares her journey from first-generation college student to landing her dream job as a news producer in New York City, and explains why professionals at every stage must stop waiting for permission and start creating their own opportunities. From redefining networking as authentic human connection to building a strategic personal brand that attracts the right opportunities, Michelle delivers practical—and sometimes tough—advice on taking ownership of your career path.

Michelle Enjoli is a speaker and career strategist who helps professionals and leaders confidently build personal brands, powerful networks, and meaningful careers.

A former TV producer and marketing professional for global brands, she brings real-world experience and practical strategies to every stage and session.

Her keynotes and workshops empower audiences to lead with purpose, communicate with authenticity, and navigate their careers like entrepreneurs. Her thought leadership has been featured in TED, Forbes, Entrepreneur, Business Insider, and more.

Connect with Michelle on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Breaking the “wait your turn” mindset and recognizing when following the rules is actually holding your career back
  • What it truly means to be the CEO of your career and one practical shift you can make at work immediately
  • The truth about networking and personal branding—and what most people are getting wrong
  • How ownership looks different from college students to Fortune 500 leaders—and what successful professionals do at every stage
  • Balancing strategy and authenticity without feeling political or calculated
  • The critical mindset shift required to pivot after 10+ years in the same role or industry

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today we are going to discuss how to become the CEO of your career with Michelle Enjoli. Welcome.

Michelle Enjoli: Thank you for having me, Lee.

Lee Kantor: And while I’m excited to learn what you’re up to, tell us about your practice. How are you serving folks?

Michelle Enjoli: Yeah, so I help both leaders and professionals what I call stop waiting for permission and start owning their career trajectory. So what I’ve found throughout the years is that you have many people who are working today and doing all the right things. They’re going to the right schools, getting credentials, working really hard, and sometimes they struggle to see the growth that they want to see. And so I decided to help those folks learn, because no one has taught them how to position themselves in order to see that growth. And so I’ve focused on helping folks do that.

Lee Kantor: And then the type of people you help, are they kind of people early in their career, in the mid-career, at the end of their career? What where are they at when they get Ahold of you?

Michelle Enjoli: Well, so it’s interesting, I started this practice with early to mid-career in mind. And what’s the evolution of it has been that it’s been all over the place, from students about to graduate college to early, mid or late career people needing to pivot, wanting to pivot. So I’ve seen it at all different stages of people’s careers.

Lee Kantor: And this is a hot button issue for me because I’m always I don’t like to be waiting for someone to pick me. I like to try to take control as best as well as I can in order to be the chooser instead of the waiting to be picked person. Um, it sounds like philosophically we’re on the same page there.

Michelle Enjoli: Oh, absolutely. That’s exactly the foundation of what I teach today, because it’s necessary.

Lee Kantor: And that’s very counterintuitive because, you know, when you’re going to school, everybody’s just basically kind of telling you to just shut up and get along and just, you know, just follow this kind of escalator path to the next level and you’re just kind of waiting your turn until you just get the tap on the shoulder so you can, you know, enter into the room you want to enter in. How did you kind of land on this? Because I believe it is counterintuitive, is not what is conventional thought out there right now.

Michelle Enjoli: Oh, absolutely. So there’s been a number of things that led to this conclusion, even in my own life. So a little bit about me. I’m a first generation American and a first generation college student. So right from the beginning, before my career even started, I had to figure it out. I had to basically set a path for myself because one just even figuring out what college I wanted to go to and what I wanted to study, I didn’t have anyone who had done that before in my family or my close circles. And so that was the first start of it, of me having to initiate this, these steps for myself. Secondly was I came to the conclusion that my dream job was going to be to become a news producer in New York City. I was very specific about the type of job that I wanted. And as you know, the communications industry is very, very competitive. And so in order for me to accomplish that, I had to do the same exact thing, figure it out, build my own connections, build my own pathway. And so I thankfully successfully did that in college and ended up landing that dream job even before my college graduation, which was a miracle to me. At that point, I thought they were punking me when I received the offer, and so I think that was a catalyst for me understanding that I had to create my own path.

Lee Kantor: So when you were able to kind of land the job, you I mean, somebody might say, well, I got picked, I did everything right and I was the one who was anointed this position. But you saw it a different way. You said, I got this because I made certain moves. I was proactive, I took control of the situation. I did not wait.

Michelle Enjoli: Absolutely. Yeah. So instead of I mean, I used every resource in school. So I’ll give you a couple examples. I would interview people over coffee. I would ask even other students, faculty, do they know someone in the industry? I took a lot of odd jobs to learn and how to perfect. Whether it was writing and speaking. I was, you know, I became an anchor for this little news station up in northern new Jersey, where as a college student, I had the wonderful, wonderful schedule of waking up at 3 a.m. in the morning on Saturday mornings to anchor the morning, um, you know, uh, morning newscast on the weekends. That was not fun at all. But I did it because I knew that that was my way in of acquiring skill sets and making connections. So I had to do a lot, a lot of work to get there.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re working with people, especially young people, a lot of times they want to kind of make the their path go at a speed. Maybe that is a little unrealistic. How do you help them kind of manage their expectations when it comes to deploying a strategy like this? Because, you know, at some point, like you said, you got to do the thing, you can’t wait. And then just they’re not going to just believe you can do the thing. You got to actually do the thing.

Michelle Enjoli: Oh, absolutely. And this is something that is very, very common today, this mindset. Because unlike when I was going to school, I didn’t have social media. And today, you know, social media, these kids are being fed false information every day that you can build a business and become a millionaire overnight, or that you, you know, you can graduate school and everyone gets their dream job at the maybe the company or things like that. There’s a lot of unrealistic expectations. And what I help people understand is you have to be moving at all times. The timeline is going to depend on a lot of different circumstances. Yes, you have to work, but it also depends on the market, what’s going on. There’s politics involved, especially when you’re working at different companies. So I kind of walk them through this roadmap that teaches them a lot of those skill sets, not just, you know, having a vision for where they want to go in the next 2 to 5 years, but also how do you get there? And that mindset involves, you know, being realistic, you know, shifting your mindset, you know, building a good personal brand, learning how to connect with people. So I really focus on the entire process so people understand what it takes to get there.

Lee Kantor: Now for some people, I would imagine this is, you know, you’re doing some tough love here, right? You’re trying to help them. But this is not what a lot of people want to hear.

Michelle Enjoli: Oh, absolutely. Oh, I have plenty of stories that I can tell you, especially from younger folks of, you know, me giving them that tough love and and them rejecting it at first. I mean, I get all different types of scenarios. I have people who reject it and kind of don’t talk to me for like about a month or two. And then they come back and they say, oh, wait, I probably should have listened. Sorry about that. Or they reject it at first, but then quickly adapt and they start doing things and they start seeing results. So I get a lot of different reactions.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. I remember a young person came to me a few years ago and they’re like, I want to be a writer. And I’m like, oh, great, show me some of the writing you’ve done. I don’t have any examples. Like you, I go, you don’t have a blog, like blogs are free, like you can write and you know, no one’s stopping you from writing. There’s no barrier to entry to write. And then they just wanted in their head this kind of dream of what a writer would be like without the actual work of being the writer. Um, I just find that really interesting. In today’s the mindset is so different.

Michelle Enjoli: Oh, absolutely. And I do blame it. You know, I tend to not always blame it on them. I think I blame it on the access and the technology. And like I said, this perception that’s been created in the media, that’s been fed to them or is fed to them every single day, that these things happen to people without much effort. And that’s just not the case. People are not overnight successes. It looks like it, by the way. People edit videos and things like that on social media, but that’s just not the reality.

Lee Kantor: So now part of your methodology, um, and you mentioned this, that networking was kind of important as you kind of became the CEO of your career. Can you talk about maybe the misinformation that’s out there about networking and what networking really means to you and how folks should leverage it moving forward?

Michelle Enjoli: Yeah, absolutely. So here’s a thing that I’m going to bomb, I’m gonna drop. I actually hate networking. And when I tell that to people, you know, when I’m keynoting or giving a seminar, people look at me strange and I go, because if you really think about it and you look up the word networking in the dictionary, it’s a very vague definition of building business relationships. But again, you’re not telling me how to do that. And what I’ve learned is people need simple ways of understanding concepts. And so what I found that the way that I did it was something that I was learned naturally. And so I think about this. I grew up in a large immigrant family in a town in new Jersey outside of New York City. And I remember growing up being at my grandmother’s house. I had a large extended family, and waking up and coffee was a staple in the morning. And I remember waking up never knowing who was going to be at the kitchen table with my grandmother, because it could have been anyone a family member, a friend, a neighbor. But what I noticed as I grew up was that the conversations that were taking place at those tables were about solving problems as immigrants and people around our community.

Michelle Enjoli: It was about, you know, Did you find a job? Is your daughter getting better? And that naturally instilled in me a way to connect with people that was more natural. And so when I started doing this work, I came up with a definition for networking, which I call connecting and what it is, it’s the definition. It’s an authentic attempt to learn or assist someone. And so what that is, it’s not defined by a place or a time. This conversation, this connection, can take place anywhere in a coffee shop on the train. And it’s just simply thinking of three things being authentic and truly being curious about people. Learning about people. You know, why are you here at this event? You know what brought you to this city? And then if there’s an opportunity for you to assist, whether it’s you can assist or you have a recommendation or a referral that can help them with something that they’ve talked about, then you offer it. But that’s just like a natural way of learning about people and then solidifying connections by offering assistance any way that you can. To me, that’s very natural. And it’s not bound by an event or a specific scenario or environment.

Lee Kantor: Well, it sounds very human and it doesn’t sound very, um, marketing automation y.

Michelle Enjoli: Yes.

Lee Kantor: Um, I can’t tell you how many LinkedIn connections requests I get from people that with. If I connect within seconds, it’s buy my thing. Um, they want to just eliminate the humanity from the interaction. And I think that, um, people are hungry for human to human connection. So if you can actually do that in a, in a with a mindset of service rather than a transaction, you’re going to be better served in the long run.

Michelle Enjoli: Oh, definitely. It’s interesting. I can tell you a really cool story that I just heard a month ago when I was on a trip of someone, and it goes really in line with what we’re talking about. And it was, this is a guy, he’s in business development, and the services that he offers are not services in the hundreds or thousands. His services are in the millions of dollars. And he told me a great story where he was coming to an event to talk to someone who he wanted to pitch something to a potential client. And so what he ended up doing was he went to dinner with this gentleman first the night before, and he said, you know, we didn’t talk about business. We actually just ended up talking about family. They both have families. They had a couple things in common and they just went to dinner. Well, lo and behold, the next day, later in the day, he looked at me and he said, oh my God, um, he’s gonna sign with us. And I said, what do you mean? He goes, well, we never even spoke about business, nor did I give him a presentation. But my office just called and said that he had dinner with me last night and that he wants to move forward and see, that is awesome. He didn’t have to have a PowerPoint presentation or anything. He simply connected with him over dinner on a human level. And I guess the likability was so strong that the person felt okay moving forward with him. I think that’s awesome.

Lee Kantor: Right. And that’s what happens when you have human to human interactions. And it isn’t kind of a polished, scripted, um, you know, PowerPoint. It’s it’s a human being talking to a human being. And then during that conversation, you can tell, do we are our values aligned? You know, how are they treating people around them? Like, you can learn a lot just by having a human conversation and paying a little bit of attention. It doesn’t have to be transactional.

Michelle Enjoli: Oh, absolutely. And here’s the thing. I mean, this is something that I live by and what makes life exciting for me. And I tell people this can make life exciting for you, is lead with curiosity. Like, we live in a massive world. There’s. And you know, I was lucky where I was raised in an environment full of diversity and culture, and my family was really big on the weekends we’d go and, you know, into New York City and eat at restaurants, you know, in Chinatown that were underground and constantly just learning and engaging with people from all different parts of the world. And that’s how you have to go about this, is go about it with curiosity.

Lee Kantor: Now, how would you advise people when it comes to developing their own personal brand, like being able to stand out and being authentic is critical when you’re growing your network or you’re growing your career. So what are some do’s and don’ts when it comes to developing a personal brand?

Michelle Enjoli: Yeah. So first we’ll start with, you know, a personal brand is something that it’s a feeling that you create in others when they think and talk about you. So I tell everyone, you know, I know there’s a lot of effort into, you know, a great headshot on LinkedIn and appearing a certain way, but a great personal brand or a valuable one, as I like to call it, is one that helps attract opportunities to you. And the way that you do that is it’s by what people say when you’re not in the room. And so building a valuable personal brand is all about action. It’s not about what you’re saying. It’s not about what you’re appearing to be. It’s action. And so your actions every day determine how people see you. So I always tell people, you know, the way you build a valuable personal brand. It depends on what is it that you’re trying to accomplish. So for example, if you’re looking to break into a different industry, a different part of your company, you want to pivot. Build a valuable personal brand means one being known for being really good at that thing, whether it’s acquiring the skills, whatever that is, communicating that value, but also engaging and connecting with people in that arena so that when your name is brought up, right, you are known for that specific thing.

Lee Kantor: So it’s important to be kind of find something that you’re the go to person for.

Michelle Enjoli: Absolutely. And the way that you do that is in your actions, whether it’s online or offline, like you have to be intentional. I’ll give you an example. I was working with an athlete last year who wants to make it to the NFL. Very talented in college, and we were talking about what is building a valuable personal brand mean. And we came on the topic of social media. He has a massive following on Instagram. And, you know, he’s a superstar in school as athletes tend to be today. And his goal is to, you know, get nil deals and get brand deals and eventually get to the NFL. And what I told him was I looked at his profile and there were some questionable things. And I said, well, if this is where you want to go, the brand that you want to have, like, actually have and be known for, it needs to be there to get there by doing these actions. And I’ll give you an example. One of these actions were how you present yourself on social media, like maybe less partying pictures, and maybe it’s you training you, spending time with family, just being authentically you, but in a way that represents you. So that if I’m at Nike or I’m at another big brand. I look at your social media and you represent the type of athlete that we want to represent. And so making people understand that nuance is that, you know, understanding what is your goal, but then being strategic about how you express yourself, that is what becomes your personal brand.

Lee Kantor: And especially if you’re looking for, uh, corporations to invest in you.

Michelle Enjoli: Exactly, exactly.

Lee Kantor: They’re they’re looking for a reason to say no. So if you give it to them, they will take it. So, um, you have to protect your brand and their brand, too, because if they’re paying you, they are now associated with you.

Michelle Enjoli: Absolutely. And that’s part of it, right? A personal brand, like when I say a valuable personal brand, because we all have a personal brand, that’s also something to talk about. And I, especially with young people that are on social media, I say, whether you want to or not, you do have a brand today. You have a brand that you’re building online and there’s one that you’re building offline in your interactions. But if you want a valuable personal brand is one that gets you the opportunities that you specifically want. So in the scenario that I just described with the athlete, that’s exactly what you say he has to think about. Well, what would be if someone were to sign me? What kind of person do I have to be to be attractive for those kind of offers? And that’s how you should be displaying yourself. That’s strategic.

Lee Kantor: Right? Unless he wants to be sponsored by somebody, that’s okay with partying. And like if that’s his dream sponsor, then go boldly forward there, guy. Exactly. Now, um, is there you mentioned a few examples, but is there a story that you can show that that’s maybe the most rewarding, where somebody came to you and maybe they were stuck and you were able to help them get to a new level? Obviously don’t name their name, but maybe share the challenge that they had and where they were at and how you were able to kind of help them elevate.

Michelle Enjoli: Yeah, absolutely. I actually have one, the one that comes to mind because I just engaged with her not too long ago. It’s personal and professional. It’s interesting. I was, um, I babysat her in college, and so obviously she grew up. I grew up, and eventually she went to school, went to college, and she had this dream job that she wanted, just like I did. It’s so funny. And she came to me, this is this might be now maybe 5 or 6 years ago now. Anyway, she came to me and said, hey, Michelle, you know, you know, I just saw this job posting. It’s my dream job and it’s a really big job where she lives. And so I worked with her and gave her, you know, a couple of strategies to practice. And lo and behold, she ended up getting that dream job, which I think she was like the youngest person ever to get that job. So that was super exciting because that wasn’t just a professional accomplishment for me. It was just very endearing because I was obviously she was a personal connection, someone that I saw grow up. So that was, I think, really, really cool.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there, um, in the services that you, um, Deliver. You’ve mentioned a few different ways that you interact with folks. Is it, um. Is your work primarily kind of coaching them in terms of, okay, here’s some. Here’s how I would do that, or this is your next move to make. Or are you actually, like you mentioned with that athlete? Are you helping them kind of build that brand and helping them with social media and and helping, you know, where does your kind of, um, services begin and end?

Michelle Enjoli: Sure. So it’s very interesting because I, I don’t like cookie cutter services because what I do is not really cookie cutter in the way that I do it. And so here’s what where it is, I built a foundational roadmap that helps people strategize for where they want to go in their career. And so I deliver it in a number of ways. One is through keynote speeches, so I speak for universities, business school, corporate companies on a couple of different topics that have to do with career ownership. So I speak on how to become the CEO of your career. I also speak to leaders that are looking to take this CEO mindset and help their organizations and their employees grow. And then I also do one on one coaching, which is what I’ve spoken about, which is depending on your goals. So I have a framework that I use, but every single person is different. One minute I could be working with an athlete who’s looking to grow his personal brand and attract sponsorship opportunities. The next minute I could be working with someone who is 52, who has been working, have been working in the same industry and area their whole lives, and due to a reorg or a layoff or a desire to pivot, now they want to rebuild and try to work towards rebuilding a brand that will attract new opportunities in a different area. So it depends what it is in terms of the one on one coaching. So I do essentially the same thing, which is I’m a career strategist, I call it I help people strategize how to grow depending on where they want to go. But the process can be unique depending on where someone is in their career and what their particular goal is.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you. What’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Michelle Enjoli: Sure. Well, most people love to connect with me on LinkedIn, which I welcome. So it’s Michelle and Julie on LinkedIn. They can go to my website. Uh michelangeli comm or on socials as well. Instagram. I get a lot of messages as well under Michelle Angelique.

Lee Kantor: And the spelling is m I c h e l l e e n j o l I.

Michelle Enjoli: Yes.

Lee Kantor: Well, Michelle, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Michelle Enjoli: Thank you for having me, Lee.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

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