How To Lead In Uncertain Times – An Interview with Author Janet Meeks (Inspiring Women, Episode 33)
Janet Meeks joins host Betty Collins to discuss what she means by gracious leadership, and how gracious leaders foster an environment of respect and engagement. In turn, their team members are motivated and productive because they see themselves doing meaningful work. “Inspiring Women” is presented by Brady Ware & Company.
Betty’s Show Notes
I speak with Janet Meeks. Janet is the author of Gracious Leadership, Lead Like You’ve Never Led Before. You will love getting the perspective from her because she has lived it, she’s experienced it, and her amazing journey as a leader.
She’s going to talk from her book, which is such a simple read. Yet there are some very important basics in there. What should we expect from our leaders? There’s an expectation we should have.
As Janet mentions…
I also believe that leaders need to be secure enough to understand they don’t have all the answers and that leaders who try to hoard getting the results accomplished are really holding back the organization they need to trust their employees who are subject matter experts and free them, let them lie in the war, if you will, and be all they were created today so they can play at the top of their game. And then that leaves time and room for the person with the big title to be able to take on those difficult tasks that perhaps someone and other levels of the organization cannot.
Coming up on July 30th is the 7th annual Brady Ware Women’s Leadership Conference. Each year, 100% of the proceeds go to support women initiatives through non profit organizations within Ohio. This year our supporting non profits are the Better Business Bureau and the Women’s Small Business Accelerator
This is THE podcast that advances women toward economic, social and political achievement. Hosted by Betty Collins, CPA, and Director at Brady Ware and Company. Betty also serves as the Committee Chair for Empowering Women, and Director of the Brady Ware Women Initiative. Each episode is presented by Brady Ware and Company, committed to empowering women to go their distance in the workplace and at home.
For more information, go to the Resources page at Brady Ware and Company.
Remember to follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts. And forward our podcast along to other Inspiring Women in your life.
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Betty Collins
So, today, we’re going to talk about how to lead in uncertain times. If anybody believes that today, 2020 and 2021 are uncertain times, then you’re just- you’re totally not in the- living in the surroundings, or seeing how things are going, that’s for sure. And so- but even before 2020, and even after 2021, we need people to be able to lead, whether it’s in our communities, in our country, in our companies, in our homes. And the good times are just as important as the uncertain times.
[00:00:37] Betty Collins
So, the guest today is going to talk with us. She just has such insight on this because she’s lived it, so. But leadership today has a huge vacuum and it’s really lacking, certainly in our country, businesses, corporate America, communities and homes. And whether, again, you’re in good or easy times or hard or tough, it’s just not optional. In fact, I’m a believer that in the good times is when we don’t lead well enough because we just don’t- we’re not on our game maybe as much, because it is good times. So, you don’t have to worry. This is not going to be a podcast on COVID or politics or negative.
[00:01:19] Betty Collins
The good news is that we’re going to talk about how to just navigate through it, and what are some things that can help us? So, we’re going to have a discussion and dialogue with someone who knows and lead, and has been through different things, whether it’s been corporate America or in her community. So, today, we’re going to hear from a gracious leader, Janet Meeks, and you will leave inspired with insight on how to lead, for sure. I was really fortunate to meet this amazing woman when she had her book come out a few years ago.
[00:01:53] Betty Collins
And she’s been on my podcast as well in the past, because her book was so good, I thought it was great for people to hear. And of course, I’ve read it, my company- the women in my company have read it. I would encourage you; you can listen to it as well as read it and go back to that podcast. It was a really good one. But it’s Gracious Leadership; Lead Like You’ve Never Led Before. And you can find her resume and bio attached to this website.
[00:02:20] Betty Collins
I don’t want to take the time to read a lot because it’s a huge, because she just has a really, really- has had an amazing journey, for certain. And her credentials and experience, they’re just the real deal. So, welcome, Janet, to my podcast. My audience is really fortunate to have you today. And so, let’s just get started. So, welcome, and why don’t you just tell the audience a little bit who you are, get that quick overview of your career. Nothing’s quick, but I think it’s important for my listeners just to get a feel for who you are.
[00:02:55] Janet Meeks
Well, thank you so much, Betty. It is such a joy to be with you today. And I appreciate the opportunity to share with you and with those who listen to your podcast. Let me think about my career for a second, and I guess I would have to take you back to the 1960s and early 70s. I grew up in a town of 3,000 people and I played basketball. And in these small communities, basketball was certainly, a focal point for everything we did. And little did I know at the time that I was learning so much about leadership from playing that sport.
[00:03:29] Janet Meeks
As a matter of fact, I wanted to be a coach and my father, in his infinite wisdom, encouraged me, instead of becoming a coach, that I should pursue a degree in finance. And if my father told me to jump off the bridge, believe you, me, I would have said, “Which side shall I go?”
[00:03:47] Betty Collins
Do you go?
And so- yeah, exactly. So, I got a BBA and an MBA in finance. Then I started out in the banking industry and was there for about five years and absolutely loved banking. But it was a life-changing event that caused me to take a detour in my career progression. I won’t go into the details of it; I think we probably talked about that in the earlier podcast when I was your guest. But I had a baby and that baby was born and died on the same day. And it was just the most unnerving, distressing crisis moment; the deepest valley of my life.
[00:04:28] Janet Meeks
And when I was in the hospital following the death of the baby, recovering from the delivery, the employees there, who did not know me from the next patient, really surrounded me with love and care and concern. And something about that experience led me to believe that I needed to depart banking and to enter the field of health care. And only four months after the death of my baby, I was offered an opportunity to join the senior leadership team of the largest medical center in the nation, outside a metropolitan area, and to report directly to the CEO, and I was only 27 years old.
[00:05:08] Betty Collins
That’s fantastic.
[00:05:10] Janet Meeks
So, over the course, it was amazing. And I think if I realized how daunting a task that was at the time, it probably would have scared me to death. But my naivete helped me in that case, and I just dove right in. So, I have had the pleasure of working for four major healthcare systems over about 40 years and traditionally, was responsible for marketing, strategy, planning, business development and so forth. And I loved leading those disciplines.
[00:05:38] Janet Meeks
But I’ve also been told along the way that I should strive to lead a hospital, primarily because I have always enjoyed working with doctors and also, because I’ve always had a keen sense of appreciation for the value brought forth by every employee, regardless of their role. So, in 2004, I was recruited to Columbus, Ohio, to join the Mount Carmel Health System and to be their senior VP of corporate development.
[00:06:06] Janet Meeks
And I, at the time, decided to take a risk. I told the CEO that if I accepted the opportunity of senior VP of corporate development, I would do my best to help to refine and build upon that division. But I also wanted him to promise me that one of these days, as opportunities might present, that I could actually lead one of the Mount Carmel hospitals, and he said yes. And so, about 18 months after I arrived in Columbus, I was given the opportunity to lead St. Anne’s, and that was 2006.
[00:06:41] Janet Meeks
So, there were 700 doctors, about 2,000 employees and 300 volunteers. And the irony is that there were 3,000 people on my campus that I was responsible for leading. There were 3,00- people who had lived in my home town. And at the end of the day, what I actually got to do, as the leader of that hospital, was to be a coach, to make sure we had a solid game plan, to ensure that the discipline was practiced so that we could execute our game plan and and have happy patients, happy employees and engaged physicians.
[00:07:22] Janet Meeks
It was my responsibility to be the cheerleader for the team and to offer praise for great performances, but also, to give the constructive feedback when the performance could be better. So, that’s a quick overview of my career from banking to health care. But at the end of the day, I believe a lot of what we do as leaders is to coach.
[00:07:42] Betty Collins
Well, you’re definitely respected. Everyone that knows you or talks about you talks well and you’re definitely- have walked your talk when it comes to leadership and the principles that you believe.
[00:07:58] Janet Meeks
And thank you. Thank you.
[00:07:58] Betty Collins
So, when I met you, you had authored a book, Gracious Leadership; Lead Like You’ve Never Led Before. Just a great book. Why did you write the book, and then give me an update on how it’s gone.
[00:08:14] Janet Meeks
Well, thank you so much. It seems like yesterday I was sitting at the island in my kitchen, writing the transcript for that book, but three years have passed by pretty quickly. Betty, I announced in January of 2015 that I was going to be retiring later that summer. And that was a big decision for me. And so, I found myself over the course of the month between the announcement and the actual retirement, truly becoming contemplative about different lessons of leadership I had learned along the way.
[00:08:47] Janet Meeks
And so, I would jot down my thoughts on a piece of paper and put those notes into a file, and they just stayed there in my desk. And then in early 2016, I was approached by two different leadership institutes, and both of them asked me if I would make a presentation on a leadership topic of my choice. And so, the first thing I did was pull out that file with those notes within it, just to review my thoughts on leadership. And when I laid out those notes across my desk, and I looked at and contemplated, pondered those values, really, the words that rose to the top of my mind were gracious leadership.
And so, I made these two presentations and totally independent, one or the other, the feedback I was given was, “Janet, when are you going to write the book?” And so, I started thinking about it. And lo and behold, in 2016, in the late- in that year and then in 2017, it was almost like Pandora’s box just burst wide open with this proliferation of examples of toxic leadership. And I’m talking about leaders in the political thing, I’m talking about leaders in organizations of all types. This is when the Me Too movement really started building some steam and we started learning about workplace hostility and bullying in the workplace.
[00:10:16] Janet Meeks
And what I saw every day, everywhere I turned, was that we were given so many examples of bad leaders that I thought, “Well, wait, where are the examples of the good leaders?” And so, I decided that I had to own the responsibility to produce some playbook, if you will, so that aspiring leaders could know, and very easy-to-implement simple steps, some actions that they could take, in order to lead in a better way, in a respectful way. And that’s why I wrote the book. And so, you’re right, it was released in the early ’18. And I’m so humbled, and also excited to tell you that Gracious Leadership has now made it into all 50 states and Canada.
[00:11:08] Janet Meeks
And it’s been so gratifying for me to meet people all over our country and beyond, who are just starving to learn more about how to be a respectful leader. And so, I’ve been spending, pre-COVID, I spent a good bit of time making keynote presentations about Gracious Leadership to senior leadership teams and middle managers at healthcare systems and other organizations throughout the country, even as far away as Alaska. And the book, even in the COVID era, continues to penetrate the leadership circles.
[00:11:46] Janet Meeks
I know that in Nashville, as an example, the American College of Healthcare executives have actually used the book as part of its curriculum for its Physician Leadership Academy. Other organizations are incorporating it into their mentorship training. And so, the book, in its own way, just continues to plant seeds. And I can’t wait to see how those seeds will blossom into beautiful flowers of respectful leadership that, hopefully, will last for many decades to come.
[00:12:17] Betty Collins
Oh, that’s a great way. That’s a great update. And that’s just so encouraging. I know I had the women in Brady Ware read this book, or bought it for them if they chose to read it, especially our managers and senior managers. And I had a woman come to me and said, “This has totally changed the way I think.” She just, really- it was simple, she said it was really simple, but it was eye-opening. So, it, definitely, has been impactful.
[00:12:46] Janet Meeks
Well, I’m so glad to hear that, betty. I think simple things are easier to implement, and also, it’s easier to sustain them if it’s not difficult or complex.
[00:12:55] Betty Collins
Well, that was a great, just inner dose of who you are, your career, the book that you’ve written. So, I want to really get into some of the details of that, gracious is a gentle word, right? Leadership, it’s just gentle, and so it sounds peaceful and easy. I want you to expand on why you chose ‘gracious’ and what it means, because I think that’s what sets this book apart when you read the title.
[00:13:25] Janet Meeks
Thank you for that question, Betty. That is certainly one that has been posed to me on multiple occasions, to the point that there is a chapter in the book entitled, “Gracious leadership, is it soft stuff?” And, of course, the answer is no. If you look at the definition of gracious, one of the definitions is that, it means you’re kind. But I want to tell you that we should be challenged to use the words gracious and leadership as one thought. Leadership, to me, is about getting the right results achieved, and gracious is how we achieve those results. So, gracious leadership is about being both kind and tough.
[00:14:14] Janet Meeks
A leader is truly kind if they’re tough enough to have a conversation in a soulful manner with an employee, to say, “Hey, you’re not meeting the mark, and here are the opportunities for you to improve.” A gracious leader is kind when he or she is crystal clear about accountabilities, about what goals are to be achieved, what are the expectations. And that same leader is tough enough to help the employee understand that they get off course, but again, kind enough to give positive feedback and affirmation when the employee achieves the right results. So, I think that gracious leadership is not at all about, necessarily, being gentle, it’s about being kind, compassionate and tough, so that we, as leaders, are ensuring that the right results are generated.
[00:15:16] Betty Collins
I think that’s what stood out to me a lot in this book, and in your stories of when you had that toughness combined with kindness, because that was the right thing to do and lead, either the team or the person to where you needed them to be. And that just stayed with me. But today, Janet, it’s such a tough environment. It just seems to be everywhere, and it’s overwhelming. So, what I want you to share with the audience, especially as we all lead something somewhere, we’re not all followers. We’re more leaders than we are followers. But I would love for you to share a tough time that seemed hopeless to you pertaining to leadership, and how did you navigate through it?
Wow, that’s a great question. And how many times have I lost sleep over this particular situation? I won’t describe. I mentioned earlier that I always had the dream of wanting to lead a hospital, and I was given the opportunity in 2006 to go to St. Anne’s, and to do the leader of that campus. I did not know everything I would be inheriting as the new leader of that organization. I’m an eternal optimist, I believe that we can always do better, and we can achieve more together as a team than we can alone.
[00:16:45] Janet Meeks
But when I arrived at St. Anne’s, here’s what I found; the hospital had the worst patient satisfaction in all of Central Ohio. In fact, that was plastered as a headline in the Columbus Dispatch. Quality was so inconsistent that I was almost afraid to get my mail every day, because it was full of letters from angry patients and family members. The financial performance was not good at all, and because my predecessor had been released from the organization, and oh, by the way, he was beloved. So, I inherited employees, many of whom were broken-hearted, and even angry, because they wanted their old leader, not a new leader.
[00:17:35] Janet Meeks
And many of the doctors were disenchanted. The culture was deemed by many of the employees to be healthy, but it was not. And it’s like, “Oh, my goodness, where do you start? There’s so many problems to solve.” So, as leaders, especially as top A leaders, we have this inclination to want to just dive right in and start changing things, and that would have been the wrong thing to do. One of the lessons I have learned throughout my career is that sometimes you have to slow down first before you can speed up.
[00:18:11] Janet Meeks
So, I had to learn that the most important thing I could do as the new leader of that campus, was to slow down and build relationships of trust with doctors, with employees, not only of the leadership and management level, but even with the janitors and the dietary employees. I made it part of my leadership mantra to start listening to them, and to ask them questions, and to get their feedback. In my book, I talk about the importance of three powerful questions. Number one, what one thing can we do to make your work life better? Number two, what one thing can we do to make the customer experience better?
[00:18:59] Janet Meeks
And number three, it’s open-ended, what in the world do you want to talk about? What would you like to share? And Betty, I found that, over the course of time, that when employees realized that I was sincere in wanting to understand their opinions and I valued their feedback, it was magical. I, then, found that we had an opportunity to create an exciting vision for the growth and development of St. Anne’s. It had traditionally been known as a wonderful place to have a baby, but this hospital had the potential to grow into a regional medical center.
[00:19:38] Janet Meeks
And so, creating an exciting vision that employees could get excited about, buy into, and most importantly, to understand how they could help to realize that vision, was also a key aspect of getting out of that hopeless situation. I’ll also tell you, Betty, that it was important to get the right people on the bus. I had to make sure that we had leaders and employees who were excited about where we were going, and that if there were people there who were like, “No, we don’t want to change, we don’t want to go with a new vision. What we had 20 years ago was just fine.” Well, we had to liberate some of those employees, and encourage them to go be happy somewhere else, as opposed to being unhappy and slowing down.
[00:20:25] Betty Collins
Very nicely said. Nicely said.
[00:20:27] Janet Meeks
And so, then, from there, it just went into putting disciplines into place, that didn’t sound like discipline. It was being clear about goals, teaching our managers to apologize if we disappointed a patient or a family member, teaching our employees the importance of systematic, sincere praise. And so, that’s really the scenario; it was a struggling community hospital that just had so many problems, and we were able to effect a cultural turnaround, a financial turnaround, and an operational turnaround. And I always have given the credit to that team of loyal employees at St. Ann’s who believed in the art of possibility, and that we could become a place where physicians wanted to practice, patients wanted to come for care, and employees wanted to work.
[00:21:22] Betty Collins
You really answered my next question, so I’m going to move on to the next one. Because you’ve talked, really, about where does a leader start? And you gave so many good ideas of, where do you start to navigate that team? So, I want to spend my last two questions, because I think this is important. What should we expect from leadership in our lives? Sometimes, and I say this, I became the leader I didn’t have, and that’s called leading without a tail, it can be very dangerous. It can be very heartbreaking, and it’s a lot harder, by the way. But sometimes you become that. So, what should we expect from the leadership? And I’m not talking about just the president of the United States, or- what should we expect?
[00:22:12] Janet Meeks
Oh, Betty, without exception, and this applies to any leader in any role, whether they have a formal title or not, they should be 100 percent uncompromisingly honest and truthful. And I’ll just continue to go along the line of what I’m thinking, leaders must show respect. I’ve been in organizations where respect was only shown to other people who had big titles, and that is just not okay. Every person who is a member of the team, regardless of their title, has value to bring forth, and should be fully respected for what they do, and for who they are.
I also believe that leaders need to be secure enough to understand they don’t have all the answers. And that leaders who try to hoard getting the results accomplished are really holding back the organization, they need to trust their employees who are subject matter experts, and free them, let them fly and soar, if you will, and be all they were created to be, so they can play at the top of their game. And then that leaves time and room for the person with the big title to be able to take on those difficult tasks, that perhaps someone in other levels of the organization cannot.
[00:23:47] Janet Meeks
And then I just think that, lastly, for this question, leaders have got to be humble, to understand and to admit that we’re all going to make mistakes. Leaders make mistakes, too. It’s just that as a leader, we need to know and to communicate to our staff, and to live the reality that if we make a mistake, what did we learn from it, and how can we improve from that from that situation?
[00:24:18] Betty Collins
Thank you very much, those were great. We just need to have some expectations that are different, instead of just accepting sometimes. And I love that, really good.
[00:24:28] Janet Meeks
Well, it’s a sad commentary, Betty, that we have to say, that leaders should be uncompromisingly honest. But you have said earlier, and we say in leadership, in organizations of all types, that that’s not the case today. But we’ve got to get there.
[00:24:47] Betty Collins
Right, we have to. We have to. So, let me ask you this last thing to get there, we want to get there. Give us a simple take-away that we can all think about, that possibly could lead to the change that we need.
[00:25:01] Janet Meeks
I believe that any person can be, and probably is, a leader, any person. It doesn’t require a fancy title to be a leader. Mothers are leaders, teachers are leaders, staff accountants are leaders, nurses, bank tellers, housekeepers. Regardless of the role of the individual, I think that if we will just own responsibility, first, to lead by example, and to do the work we are to do, as best as we possibly can, to give it our very best. Once you lead by example, then, all of a sudden, you realize that you have the opportunity to lead by influence.
[00:25:52] Janet Meeks
And that others will want to follow you. And whether or not you’re looking for a formal promotion in life, you may have a greater likelihood of getting one if, in fact, you’ve been a leader within your original roles. I was thinking about my career, and I have to tell you, the hardest job that I’ve ever been given has not been in a healthcare system or a bank, or even in consulting. The most difficult and challenging job, and the most gratifying has been that of mother. And I have the joy of- I feel like I’ve been promoted, because I have two daughters, who now are both wonderful mothers, and each of them is successful in her own respective rights. And they, certainly, are gracious leaders. So, I think that anybody can lead, we just have to understand that we have to own the responsibility for giving it our best every day.
[00:26:56] Betty Collins
Well-said, Janet, that’s just a great way to end our time together. I really love it when you said, maybe I’m putting your words in the way I hear them, but when you lead by example, you lead by it, you become an influencer.
[00:27:13] Janet Meeks
Exactly.
[00:27:14] Betty Collins
Those two things together, that’s a great- thank you for sharing that with me. And I’ve read your book, and I’ve talked to you, and that that’s my ‘aha’ moment for this moment. But I do want to thank you, because you’re busy, and you’re willing to come on my podcast, and share your perspective. I’m truly grateful, my audience will be better because of it. But I would like them to be able to know, where can they buy the book? Where can they find that? Are you on Amazon? What’s the best way to do it?
[00:27:45] Janet Meeks
There are several places where they can find the book. I encourage your listeners to visit my website, graciousleadershipbook.com, and they can buy the book there. They also can sign up at the bottom of any of the pages, they can sign up for the free Gracious Leadership newsletter, that about once a month, I send out a blog with whatever is on my mind, and I do my best to make those inspirational, or just to continue to talk about different aspects of leadership. So, graciousleadershipbook.com. The book is available on Amazon, and it’s in hardback, Kindle and an audio book. And then on social media, you can find me on Facebook, on LinkedIn, and on Twitter. The Twitter handle is @agraciousleader.
[00:28:41] Betty Collins
Well, we, also, will have attached to this, of course, your bio and those links, so that our listeners can definitely tap into becoming a gracious leader, for sure. But one last thing, I always love to ask this; what podcast or book would you recommend? And then we will sign off.
Janet Meeks
I really am enjoying Brené Brown, and her series about Unlocking Us. And her particular podcast with an interview of Dolly Parton, and it was about songtelling. And, really, this particular podcast was about love, empathy and the power of truth. And I would encourage your listeners to check it out, because Dolly Parton, truly, is an incredible person, and an amazing business woman, that I think I, personally, was inspired by that, and I think your listeners would be too.
[00:29:39] Betty Collins
Well, I will check that out. I love her, she’s really good, Brené Brown, for sure. Well, thank you again, Janet.
[00:29:47] Betty Collins
I’m Betty Collins, and so glad you joined me today. Inspiring women, it’s what I do. I leave you with this; being strong speaks of strength, but being courageous speaks to having a will to do more and overcome.
Betty Collins, CPA, Brady Ware & Company and Host of the “Inspiring Women” Podcast
Betty Collins is the Office Lead for Brady Ware’s Columbus office and a Shareholder in the firm. Betty joined Brady Ware & Company in 2012 through a merger with Nipps, Brown, Collins & Associates. She started her career in public accounting in 1988. Betty is co-leader of the Long Term Care service team, which helps providers of services to Individuals with Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities and nursing centers establish effective operational models that also maximize available funding. She consults with other small businesses, helping them prosper with advice on general operations management, cash flow optimization, and tax minimization strategies.
In addition, Betty serves on the Board of Directors for Brady Ware and Company. She leads Brady Ware’s Women’s Initiative, a program designed to empower female employees, allowing them to tap into unique resources and unleash their full potential. Betty helps her colleagues create a work/life balance while inspiring them to set and reach personal and professional goals. The Women’s Initiative promotes women-to-women business relationships for clients and holds an annual conference that supports women business owners, women leaders, and other women who want to succeed. Betty actively participates in women-oriented conferences through speaking engagements and board activity.
Betty is a member of the National Association of Women Business Owners (NAWBO) and she is the President-elect for the Columbus Chapter. Brady Ware also partners with the Women’s Small Business Accelerator (WSBA), an organization designed to help female business owners develop and implement a strong business strategy through education and mentorship, and Betty participates in their mentor match program. She is passionate about WSBA because she believes in their acceleration program and matching women with the right advisors to help them achieve their business ownership goals. Betty supports the WSBA and NAWBO because these organizations deliver resources that help other women-owned and managed businesses thrive.
Betty is a graduate of Mount Vernon Nazarene College, a member of the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, and a member of the Ohio Society of Certified Public Accountants. Betty is also the Board Chairwoman for the Gahanna Area Chamber of Commerce, and she serves on the Board of the Community Improvement Corporation of Gahanna as Treasurer.
“Inspiring Women” Podcast Series
This is THE podcast that advances women toward economic, social and political achievement. The show is hosted by Betty Collins, CPA; Betty is a Director at Brady Ware & Company. Betty also serves as the Committee Chair for Empowering Women, and Director of the Brady Ware Women Initiative. Each episode is presented by Brady Ware & Company, committed to empowering women to go their distance in the workplace and at home. For more information, go to the Resources page at Brady Ware & Company.
Remember to follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts. And forward our podcast along to other Inspiring Women in your life.
The complete “Inspiring Women” show archive can be found here.
