Jamie Gassmann: [00:00:07] Well, I think you hire veterans. I’m going to totally play off of that. So, I watch for my little clues of good convo.

Nicole Roberts: [00:00:17] I love it.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:00:17] Awesome.

Male Speaker: [00:00:18] So, let’s do a real quick soundcheck. I want to make sure we’re good. Nicole, pull that mic in, if you will, just a little bit. Awesome. And, these are directional mics, meaning if you’re back here or off to the side, you can hear the difference. So, we want you in there loud and proud. So, Nicole, just give your name and company affiliation.

Nicole Roberts: [00:00:36] Nicole Roberts.

Male Speaker: [00:00:38] Perfect. John?

John Baldino: [00:00:39] John Baldino.

Male Speaker: [00:00:42] Awesome. Okay. I think we’re ready to go.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:00:45] I think we are.

Male Speaker: [00:00:45] Okay.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:00:46] Awesome.

Male Speaker: [00:00:46] Here we go. You all have fun.

Intro: [00:00:53] Broadcasting live from the SHRM 2021 Conference at the Las Vegas Convention Center, it’s time for Workplace MVP. Brought to you by R3 Continuum, a global leader in workplace behavioral health, crisis, and security solutions. Now, here’s your host.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:01:12] Hello, everyone. Jamie Gassmann, your host here for Workplace MVP. And I am broadcasting from SHRM 2021 in Las Vegas, Nevada. And really exciting. I have three guests for this episode. So, I’m going to start out with our first guest, Nicole Roberts, who’s Vice President of People & Culture from MVAH Partners. Welcome to the show, Nicole.

Nicole Roberts: [00:01:34] Thank you very much.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:01:35] So, why don’t we start out with you telling us a little bit about your H.R. background, how you came into H.R., and a little bit about MVAH partners?

Nicole Roberts: [00:01:45] Sure. So, I started in H.R. in 2004 and started out in benefits and then moved into employee relations and was a department of one a couple of times and really just moved into more amplified roles throughout my career until I got into, you know, executive leadership and building and developing teams. And, currently, my role as vice president at People & Culture, I am able to set the strategy and be really intentional in how we want to show up and how we want to take the best care of our people and to really be intentional with our culture.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:02:24] Awesome. So, over the last year and looking at going now into 2021 and I know it’s hard to not talk about over the last year because H.R. has been impacted so much. And, from a cultural perspective, what have been some of the challenges that you’ve seen that you’ve had to get really strategic and kind of overcome over that last year?

Nicole Roberts: [00:02:42] So, when I started with MVAH partners, my first day was March 9 and as we know the kind of beginning, so to speak, of the impact of the pandemic on our cultures and on our workplaces was March 11. So, the traditional aspect and the traditional approach of, you know, get in, learn the culture, learn the people, all that, like all of that went out the window. And it was, what is most important to the business? How can we best support our people?

Nicole Roberts: [00:03:12] We are in 15 states and we have 100 locations. And, because we’re affordable housing, it’s essential that people have a place to live. So, we have not stopped through the entire pandemic. And so, our major focuses were making sure that our people who were working, you know, at front lines, so to speak, really felt supported and that we see you and we understand and we acknowledge that you are right there public-facing.

Nicole Roberts: [00:03:40] And, one of the things that we’ve done recently is we implemented Core Links…. It’s called SupportLink. And, what it is is it is what I would call an EAP on steroids. And, it is a 14-touchpoint EAP program. So, it really just meets people where they are if it’s an app, a phone number, a website. And, it really just was one of those benefits where we looked at it and we said we really can’t afford not to do this.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:04:13] Yeah. It’s almost like giving them access to something in the way that they want to receive that information. And, what kind of difference have you seen within the employees, maybe from a utilization perspective, by implementing something different like that?

Nicole Roberts: [00:04:25] So, one of the main things is during the pandemic, there were so many people that were reaching out and saying, “Hey, does our benefit program cover mental health? Do we have tech support? Do we have phone calls? How many visits is it?” And all of that.

Nicole Roberts: [00:04:41] And so, even before our renewal of 10/1, I started to talk to our broker and, like, what can we do? What solutions are out there? And so, we looked at four or five different companies and we decided that SupportLlink was perfect for us because it met people where they were and we’ve gotten so much positive feedback from that that not only do you have access to the care, but it is a licensed professional that you speak to the first time that you call.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:05:09] Right. So, they’re more accessible. Fantastic. So, you know, as you kind of look at it towards the end of this year, are there any things that you’re seeing now that we’ve kind of seen this increase in cases again? You know, are there challenges that are resurfacing that you’re having to navigate? And, what is that looking like for your organization?

Nicole Roberts: [00:05:27] Well, for us, so we went through, you know, state-by-state, and in some states, it was municipality-by-municipality, where the guidance was different. The regulations were different. And, there was kind of this feeling like, okay now we can breathe and then right back into it. So, for us, it’s really just making sure that, you know, the compassion fatigue doesn’t get to a point of complete burnout and exhaustion, and that people, you know, feel supported and that there’s – our biggest thing really is making sure that they have as much information as possible so that there’s not that additional stress of the uncertainty to go with it.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:06:13] Right. Well, and isn’t compassion fatigue and burnout becoming some of the most common things we’re hearing across multiple industries but particularly that frontline, kind of, essential worker, like here we go again kind of environments.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:06:28] So, when how – and I know you’ve got this program. But are there other things that you’re seeing with that compassion fatigue and burnout? And, are there ways that employers or H.R. people can be looking at and doing things to help out?

Nicole Roberts: [00:06:41] I think one thing that we really need to pay attention to as well is it’s not just our employees, it’s H.R. I mean, part of how you build resilience is you have that period of rebuilding and we just aren’t having that in this case. I mean, some of us have been, you know, just full steam ahead for so long that we haven’t even stopped to feel authentically how this actually is for us.

Nicole Roberts: [00:07:10] And so, I think from that aspect, we just need to really grant each other a lot of grace and we need to make sure that we’re caring for one another coming into situations with that positive intent, that benefit of the doubt, and asking, how are you? Not just what do you need and what can I get for you? And, you know, from a benefit perspective or anything like that. But really at the personal level, how are you? How are you dealing with this? Do you have kids that all of a sudden have been sent back home? Or, you know, what’s going on with you? And, I think that the biggest thing that we can do as H.R. is to not only be there for our employees but for each other.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:07:51] Oh, that’s a fantastic way, and SHRM is a great place to be able to do that. Reconnect with colleagues you probably haven’t seen for a while. Well, thanks, Nicole.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:08:00] We’re going to go into our next guest here, John Baldino from Humareso.

John Baldino: [00:08:06] Excellent.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:08:06] Did I say it right?

John Baldino: [00:08:08] Yes. Humareso.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:08:09] I tried really hard to punch that up for you.

John Baldino: [00:08:12] You did a great job. Fantastic.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:08:13] So, John, why don’t we start out with you introducing yourself, telling us a little bit about your background, tell us a little bit about Humareso, and kind of give us a little bit of background on you.

John Baldino: [00:08:22] Sure. So, I’m one of the old ones here at SHRM. Yes, I’m getting head nods. This month actually is my 30th year in human resources. And, I started out in personnel because that’s kind of what we used to be known as. And, I started out in the retail world and my career just, you know, evolved from there and leadership development and organizational design and development and H.R. stuff right over the past 30 years.

John Baldino: [00:08:51] And so, Humareso is my H.R. consulting firm that I began a little over nine years ago. And, it’s been a great ride. I mean, really, it’s been a lot of fun because we do a lot of great work with organizations of various sizes across the country, a little bit international. And so, from startups, which is really exciting, right, to watch all the startups trying to get things going, but also to organizations that are enterprise, multistate, multilevel organizations that have some of the same problems that startups have and trying to figure out a way to be customized in the approach to handle those problems because of their specific details. But there’s a lot of similar applications, right. So, it’s fun for our team to get to be a part of those things.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:09:32] Yeah. And, I imagine as a consulting firm, you see everything.

John Baldino: [00:09:34] I mean, unfortunately.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:09:37] Like everything.

John Baldino: [00:09:37] Everything. And videos. Yes.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:09:40] Okay, so everything.

John Baldino: [00:09:41] Thank you. Yes.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:09:41] Have to add that, right. So, talk to me. What are some of the, you know, kind of, you know, from the – I’m looking at the last year because I think that that’s really top of mind for a lot of people. But, you know, what are some of the things that you’ve seen in the consulting world that have been growing, kind of trending concerns or challenges that H.R. teams or employers have faced?

John Baldino: [00:10:01] Yeah. I mean, obviously, and then Nicole just did a great job talking about COVID response and you can’t ignore that. But there’s some residual in that as well. And so, we’re seeing some difficulty when it comes to talent management and talent acquisition. And, we’re also seeing difficulty when it comes to compensation management. How much do we pay people now? You know, the rate of pay is changing so quickly. I just was sharing this with somebody else.

John Baldino: [00:10:25] You know, again, I’ve been doing this a long time. There’s some great data that’s done from a compensation analytics standpoint that for the first time with some of the large providers of compensation data, they’re putting their hands up and saying, “We are so sorry. We’ve never experienced this kind of turnover in comp data. We can’t keep up.”

Jamie Gassmann: [00:10:46] Wow.

John Baldino: [00:10:47] And, that’s absolutely unusual. Like, never have I seen this before.

John Baldino: [00:10:52] Yeah. Well, in the rate of change, just in the worlds, I mean, you know, constant in terms of what people are needing.

John Baldino: [00:10:59] Yes.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:11:00] So, it’s very interesting. Have you seen, you know, obviously, from your experience, in nine years of doing consulting, are there some trends that might have been starting prior to COVID? So, you already saw the writing on the wall, but due to COVID just completely sped up the rate of the change.

John Baldino: [00:11:18] Yeah. You know, I know that we’ve talked a lot about work from home obviously over the past year. And, what I would say is, pre-pandemic there already were organizations trying to figure out how to be a bit more nimble and flexible. And so, this concept, I mean, even in my own organization in Humareso, not everyone came into the office every day, not every – and they weren’t hired in the city where the corporate offices are.

John Baldino: [00:11:41] So, we already had a sense of that. But, obviously, when COVID hit and that became much more of the conversation, for some organizations, it was, you know, a little too late. They could have been planned a bit better when it came to flexibility. But for some, they really saw this as the push to make things cleaner when it comes to employee experience and to finding talent. I mean, we’re seeing organizations that are – so, our corporate offices are in the Philadelphia area and we’re seeing companies, for example in Philadelphia, that are hiring their first employees this past year in San Francisco, in Chicago, in Austin, Texas, and, you know, Topeka, Kansas, because they can.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:12:28] Yeah.

John Baldino: [00:12:29] Right? And that’s kind of exciting.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:12:30] Right. Your candidate pool just expanded across the globe, basically.

John Baldino: [00:12:33] And, it needed to.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:12:34] Yeah. Absolutely.

John Baldino: [00:12:34] We needed it, too.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:12:35] But on top of that, though, how does that impact compensation? I know you mentioned the compensation numbers are off the charts. But when you live like, let’s say you have, you know, your offices are in somewhere remote Nebraska, but you’re trying to hire somebody in San Francisco. I mean, that rate of pay is like a night and day. How how does an employer navigate that?

John Baldino: [00:12:54] It’s a great question. I’m going to say they navigate it not very well and usually –

Jamie Gassmann: [00:13:00] And they need to hire you, right? Yeah. They need to call John.

John Baldino: [00:13:05] And, you know, then you get into – there’s a couple of different ways to approach it. There is a philosophy around the job is worth what the job is worth. Because that’s what you’re paying for is the skill sets and knowledge to be applied to get that work done. And that is worth X, whatever that is.

John Baldino: [00:13:21] Some organizations will do that as sort of a baseline, but then you have sort of cost of living add-ons put onto it to say, you know, living in San Francisco, as an example, or San Diego, it’s a lot different than living in Lincoln, Nebraska, right? It’s a little different for a variety of reasons. But compensation being one. And so, we can do the offset from a cost of living adjustment if we needed to. This way you’re not committing yourself to something beyond.

John Baldino: [00:13:46] But I will say there are employers that are, I hope, listening, right, who have put themselves in a corner to say we will never hire anybody from California because we don’t want to pay X, Y, or Z, we don’t want to do this and that. And I get that. But I would also say we’re in a time where talent is at a premium. So, you can’t afford to be that snotty about where you’ll take people, right. It’s not someone’s fault that they grew up in California. That’s where they are.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:14:14] It’s where they live. And then, the question comes to is with the shortage of employers or employees, right, that strain on employers trying to find that talent, you know, to your point, you know, sometimes they can’t really be overly picky, but, you know, how – they got to get into a certain mindset. So, if you were going to coach somebody and can kind of consult on how they should be approaching that, especially in today’s hiring world, what would be some of those key things you would remind them to do?

John Baldino: [00:14:42] Yeah. That’s really a good question. So, one of the things that I like to do and our team does is the hiring manager or executive who is having these thoughts. We try to say to them, okay, we’re going to take out a piece of paper, right old school, grab a pen, old school, and write down the top 10 tasks that you have in your job. Your job.

John Baldino: [00:15:05] And, you know, we’ll watch them write these 10. And, I’ll say, “When you started here, could you do these 10?” And, really have a heart-to-heart about – right. Well, I could do six out of 10 of these. I couldn’t do all six as well as I do them now, but I had an understanding. Okay. If I had your resume today, you wouldn’t let me hire you for that job. Right?

Jamie Gassmann: [00:15:28] That just got deep.

John Baldino: [00:15:29] Right.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:15:30] That’s awesome.

John Baldino: [00:15:31] You’re welcome. But you caused them to have a reality check. Like, you’ve been in your role, maybe for six years. You’re very comfortable. You know what you’re doing. You’ve had job enlargement and enrichment and have grown with it. You are not looking at it with those same eyes anymore to remember. You need to do that for this person who is bringing – you know, one of the things, and I know that this is going to come up probably a little bit later, too. But when you put out these job postings with these qualifications or what’s there, we have some people in our country who will look at these qualifications and self-select out.

John Baldino: [00:16:04] The statistics are off the chart about that. Look, if there are 10 bullet points of what you need and you’re a dude, you’ll do, too. If I have two out of 10, I’m 100% qualified for this job. That’s what you think. Women will be somewhere between seven and eight bullet points, and so they’ll self-select out of. And, if you’re in the military, the statistics are almost 10 out of 10.

John Baldino: [00:16:23] Come on, right. So, what are we doing that’s precluding people from thinking that they can be a part of it? Take a look at what you’re advertising, which you’re asking for a little bit deeper. And, remember, you can grow into some things. It’s not a day one.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:16:37] Right. And I love that perspective because that’s so true. And, I’ve heard that before, where men, you know, sometimes are, “Yeah, I’m fully qualified. I’m applying for it.” And, women tend to kind of take a step back.

John Baldino: [00:16:48] Yes.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:16:48] And so, if you were going to give advice to a candidate, you know, what – you know, who is looking at those job descriptions and going, “Oh my gosh, can I do this? Can I not do this?” What would be some of the advice you would give to them that helps them to identify that “No, you can do that.” You know, you may need to grow into some of these skills. But how should they present themselves or how should they kind of build up maybe some of that confidence?

John Baldino: [00:17:10] I think that when you look at it from a talent sourcing standpoint, finding people and connecting with someone to exactly your point, and saying and listening to someone say, “You know, I can’t do this. I see what you sent me. I can’t do this,” I’ll often say, “Oh, this is just, you know, a barometer of some of what’s needed. Let me ask you a question.” And then, I’ll ask something that seems disconnected and I’ll listen to someone share success that they’ve had and how they’ve been rewarded for that success. And, I’ll say fascinating. By doing whatever that is, X, the skills you demonstrated were a B and C. Funny how that will likely apply to these couple of areas that you’re saying I don’t have that. You have it all over the place, especially, I mean, again, something that might be common to some people listening is returning. If you’ve made a choice as a woman to take some time off to raise kids and you want to come back into the workforce and you say, “Well, I haven’t been working.” “Well, what have you been doing at home? I’d like to know?” Right? Because I have three kids and I know, right?

Jamie Gassmann: [00:18:18] I am a mom. I know.

John Baldino: [00:18:20] But you know what I mean?

Jamie Gassmann: [00:18:21] Yes. Absolutely. And to be able to say to you, “Did you manage the household? How about a budget?” Right? “Did you plan menus? Like, did you get your kids where they needed to be on time?” You know, maybe they weren’t dressed, but they were there on time. Like, whatever it is to just sort of laugh with it, be a little tongue in cheek about it, but remind them you demonstrated skill sets just in a different arena.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:18:42] Yeah, but they’re transferable.

John Baldino: [00:18:43] And, they are totally transferable.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:18:45] Yeah. Yeah. And so, one additional question because I am just kind of thinking about it. You know, in today’s candidate market and to some of the points you made about when people are reading those job descriptions and kind of self-selecting out, you know, do you think some of that comes down to how employers are writing that job description and how can they write them better that helps the candidates understand, “No, I can do that job,” or that may not be required on day one but we’re going to be looking for you to expand into that. I mean, is there’s something that they can be doing to maybe kind of get a little bit more innovative so candidates understand?

John Baldino: [00:19:20] Absolutely. I mean, I think there are a couple of things that come to mind. Number one, stop going to Google and, you know, downloading a job description, for Pete’s sake. I mean, I appreciate the accessibility but it’s the wrong way to approach it, right. Should I go on Google for your job description? You know, CEO, CFO, because you may not make it. Because it depends on the one that I’ll download.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:19:44] Right, right.

John Baldino: [00:19:45] The other thing I would say is, be creative in the way in which you can vet for qualifications. Use video. Use Facetime, right? You can do pre-records. You can do lives. We should be a lot more comfortable with those things as a result of this past year, right, to your point, earlier, like what has changed. Be creative in that way, too.

John Baldino: [00:20:05] I recently was working on a marketing specialist at our organization and the key to entry was, where’s your link to your portfolio, your online portfolio? Just send the link. I don’t – well, I have to get my resume together. No, thank you.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:20:21] Yeah. I want to see actual work.

John Baldino: [00:20:23] Right. No thank you. I’ll get the resume later. I need your name and email address. Can I just have the link to your – are you sure? Yeah. Actually, I know, I run the company. I’m pretty sure. Just sent it to me. It’s okay.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:20:36] Are you questioning me? Are you questioning me? Really?

John Baldino: [00:20:40] And, you do that and someone is – the interesting thing about that in that particular role is that’s their bread and butter.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:20:47] Yeah.

John Baldino: [00:20:48] The creative, innovative approach to design and development. So, start with the best foot forward. Why wouldn’t you want to?

Jamie Gassmann: [00:20:55] Yeah. What is your LinkedIn look like and is you have a picture on it? I mean, that’s –

John Baldino: [00:20:59] Right.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:20:59] Honestly, I mean, that’s going to be – you’re going to be expected to do that and so –

John Baldino: [00:21:03] Right.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:21:03] Fantastic. Yeah.

John Baldino: [00:21:03] So, to have that kind of different approach, I would say for employers, look at the job, and I know we’re going to hear some more about that from a talent acquisition standpoint. But what does this job ask for? Is there are different ways that you can find out that information than just a sheet of paper?

Jamie Gassmann: [00:21:15] Yeah. Fantastic. Well, thanks so much for joining us, John.

John Baldino: [00:21:18] Thank you.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:21:21] So, yeah, thank you for joining us. Sorry, I just got a little bit distracted from the show floor here. Lots of people coming by. Very exciting. But we’re going to – if anybody needs to get a hold of you, John, how would they do that if they wanted to get in touch with you and reach out for more information?

John Baldino: [00:21:37] So, certainly the website @humareso.com, H-U-M-A-R-E-S-O .com. And you can connect with me there, or I’m on Twitter all over the place @bjalive, like not dead, but alive, jbalive.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:21:51] Fascinating. Well, it’s been great to have you on the show. Thank you so much. And, thanks to Nicole as well who did have to step away because obviously, these are working, you know, H.R. folks trying to get all their education here at the show. And, if you are in the area, stop by Booth 4076 and check out R3 Continuum’s booth, our show sponsor. And, thank you again. Have a great day.