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Search Results for: forrest tuff

Forrest Tuff: CEO and Accredited Speaker

September 13, 2021 by Jacob Lapera

Forrest Tuff is an award-winning speaker, author, filmmaker, and television producer. He is the founder and CEO of One Vision Productions, a multimedia production, and branding agency that is recognized as one of Atlanta’s Best and Brightest Companies to Work For.

A Certified Business & Master Life Coach, he was named one of Atlanta’s 500 Most Powerful Leaders and the 89th Accredited Speaker in the world by Toastmasters International.

 Connect with Forrest on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter.

About Our Sponsor

OnPay’sOnPay-Dots payroll services and HR software give you more time to focus on what’s most important. Rated “Excellent” by PC Magazine, we make it easy to pay employees fast, we automate all payroll taxes, and we even keep all your HR and benefits organized and compliant.

Our award-winning customer service includes an accuracy guarantee, deep integrations with popular accounting software, and we’ll even enter all your employee information for you — whether you have five employees or 500. Take a closer look to see all the ways we can save you time and money in the back office.

Follow OnPay on LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter

This transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:04] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio brought to you by on pay Atlanta’s new standard in payroll. Now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:24] Lee Kantor here, another episode of Atlanta Business Radio, and this is going to be a fun one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor on pay. Without them, we could not be sharing these important stories today on the Atlanta Business Radio. We have forced tough with one Vision Productions. Welcome Forrest.

Forrest Tuff: [00:00:43] Hey, how are you doing, Lee? Glad to be here.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:45] Well, I am excited to be talking with you. Please tell us a little bit about one vision How are you serving, folks?

Forrest Tuff: [00:00:52] So we’re doing good out here. We’re basically a multimedia and branding agency. We provide video production, aerial drone services. We hope to branch a company with writing services. We also have photography and graphic design, so those are some of the areas that we cover.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:09] So what’s your back story? How did you get involved in production?

Forrest Tuff: [00:01:13] You know, I grew up in the church, my father was a pastor and I was part of the media team as a young kid. You know, I was and services. This before we had members. Fast forward, I finished college and I’m now trying to figure out what I want to do and I find myself. Going right back to the media production, so in 2004, I started a business and it just so happened to be in that field. That’s kind of the long and short of it.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:39] So then when you started serving, folks, did you were you working primarily with other churches or did this kind of get into business or individuals?

Forrest Tuff: [00:01:48] Yeah, to be honest with you, I worked only with a couple of churches. It started out. I was doing a lot in the entertainment field, music videos, weddings, birthday parties. And as time progressed, we started to work with more corporations and government agencies. So now that’s pretty much solely who we work with businesses. And in the government and the sector of government. And so with that, that’s kind of where we’ve changed over now the past decade.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:16] Now, as part of your work, you chose to get involved with Toastmasters. What was the thinking behind that?

Forrest Tuff: [00:02:24] Well, you know, also I’m a filmmaker, and as I started to do things, I started to get requests to come out and speak. And, you know, being in my field, I was a behind the scenes person, and I just didn’t feel comfortable standing up in front of a group of people having conversations about what I did one on one, I was OK and I found out about Toastmasters. It was a program that would help me to become a better speaker in a public arena. So that’s how I joined the organization and that’s why I joined the organization.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:53] So now what was it like going to those first meetings where you know, you were behind the scenes person and now they’re kind of pushing you up to the stage?

Forrest Tuff: [00:03:03] You know, it’s it’s great because Toastmasters is in a club setting. One minute you’re feeling like, Oh, this is going to be the worst thing ever. But when you walk in the club and you realize that everyone is on the same journey and they’re all rooting for you, it’s a really laid back environment. You know, it’s very organized and structured in terms of teaching you different skills as a speaker, but everyone’s very supportive. So it took away the inhibition or the apprehension I had when I first went and I was actually pretty comfortable my first time.

Lee Kantor: [00:03:32] And then for the people who aren’t familiar, can you kind of walk through what a Toastmasters meeting looks like?

Forrest Tuff: [00:03:39] So you go into a meeting and they run through the business, they have a hierarchy set up. There’s a president, vice president, sergeant at arms. They have all these different officers who run different parts of the meeting. And so when they start the meeting, they’ll have speakers. They’ll have someone to do a joke philosophy. They also have this thing called table topics where you do impromptu speaking, but also with the speaking. They have a portion, a better listening where you get evaluation and feedback. And this is one of the best parts of the program because the feedback is always supportive. It’s never there to tear you down. They listen to you and they give you constructive criticism on how you can become a better speaker without letting you know how bad you are when you first come. And that’s my case. But it’s just a great environment, and I would encourage anybody who’s interested in public speaking to start with Toastmasters.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:32] So now when you started going to Toastmasters, how quickly were you starting to feel really confident and confident and start pursuing speaking as you know, another one of the things services you offer?

Forrest Tuff: [00:04:47] I started professionally speaking after about two years, being with the organization now, Toastmasters was giving me the skills. It was providing all the training and education to become a better speaker, better leader. But I was very proactive in pursuing a career as a professional speaker once I got involved. I found myself drawn to that side of it, and so I began to actively pursue that side of public speaking. So for me, I think it took about two years before I started to try to get paid speaking jobs.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:20] So now we’re were you speaking about things related to your company or were you speaking as, you know, Fforest, the speaker?

Forrest Tuff: [00:05:28] Well, yes, most of what I do comes from some of my background or training. You know, I was doing working on conferences and entrepreneurship. Also, as I said, I’m a filmmaker, so I was doing workshops and. I’m also a score business minister, so during that time, I would do workshops pro bono as also ways to share information and also get more practice speaking in front of different crowds. So I chose any opportunity I could to speak and get better.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:58] Now, any advice for the person who’s considering a career as a speaker is there like, how do you transition from doing those kind of pro bono works to getting paid to speak?

Forrest Tuff: [00:06:09] Well, I think you have to. Want to do it? First, you have to have the desire to go into it and also look at speaking as a business, which means you have to now start to change how you approach different speaking engagements, how you search for them. And some of the organizations you join. I’ve also joined professional speaking organizations such as the National Speakers Association, because that’s one that focuses more on the business side of speaking. But I would tell you to try to be comfortable in your own skin. That’s the biggest thing. You know, there are so many great public speakers, but you have to find your avenue and find how you’re comfortable and what story you want to share with people.

Lee Kantor: [00:06:54] Now you have an accredited speaker designation. Can you explain to the folks what that is and why it’s important?

Forrest Tuff: [00:07:02] Yes. Well, Toastmasters has been around ninety six years, one of the largest, most amazing organizations for speaking and leadership. They have a program called the accredited speaker designation that’s made for professional speakers. The program has been around since nineteen eighty eighty one, I believe has been around about 40 years, and that program has eighty nine accredited speakers. Currently, I’m the eighty ninth in the world, so that’s just not local or statewide. There are only eighty nine accredited speakers in the world and what you have to do is you have to actually prove yourself as a professional speaker. There’s a lot of work you need to do to submit paperwork, videos and then during Toastmasters International Conference, their annual international conference, you actually present in front of a panel of judges who are accredited speakers. And if you pass the mark, then you’ll given that designation as an accredited speaker.

Lee Kantor: [00:08:00] Now you’ve in the same breath you’ve mentioned speaking in leadership, how do you see the two tied together?

Forrest Tuff: [00:08:09] I think personally, leadership is the way you carry yourself. And also being mindful of what you say. I think Toastmasters gives you the ability to formulate your thoughts and give a presentation that will be received by a broader audience. I think as a leader, you have to be mindful of what you say and to who. And that’s where you’re giving these skills to understand what it means to be a leader and also the ramifications of what you say as a speaker. So for me, leadership. And speaking go hand in hand, because as a speaker, you have to make sure that you’re sending out a message that’s going to uplift the people or something that’s going to be used in a positive manner. And that’s my personal take. It differs for everyone.

Lee Kantor: [00:08:59] So now how did you come come about your kind of leadership philosophy? Is it something that you’ve kind of cobbled together yourself or your from your own kind of life? Or did you have mentors or do you follow a certain other kind of leader prescription?

Forrest Tuff: [00:09:16] My biggest mentor in life was my father. You know, I watched my father’s life. This is a man who I’ve watched daily and his life has been a testament to me of what true leadership is in terms of treating people fair, not judging people caring about the community. So that was my biggest lesson. As far as the leader is concerned, so as I grew up and I became a man, I started to follow under those same principles, those same guidelines. Now, along the way, I’ve met people that are great leaders in different areas and business and philanthropy and other aspects that I was interested in and even great speakers. And so with that, I find myself drawn to people that are leaders in their own right and things that I find myself interested in.

Lee Kantor: [00:10:01] So now recently you’ve been named among Atlanta’s 500 most powerful leaders. How did that award come about?

Forrest Tuff: [00:10:10] Well, I think they’re searching for different people in the community or in Atlanta who are either involved in business philanthropy and they do their background research and they send you an invite to let you know that you’ve been selected or your name has been put in the hat by other leaders in the community. And so that was a great surprise for me because being an Atlanta native and doing so much in the city as far as business, I was happy to hear that because I really do care about the city of Atlanta. I’m Atlanta native born and raised. I moved away for a while but came back. So it’s always important to be recognized in the city or where you really spend your time trying to make a difference.

Lee Kantor: [00:10:53] Now, some of your work is done through coaching, can you talk about why it was important for you to become a certified coach?

Forrest Tuff: [00:11:01] So I’ve been a business mentor with score for seven years, and Score is a resource partner through the Small Business Administration. And they offer a pro bono mentoring services for those who are looking to start or sustain a business. And as a business owner myself, this was a great opportunity for me to not only give back, but to continue learning with professionals that have retired or working professionals that have a wealth of knowledge that I may not have but can learn from. So as I have been on that journey mentoring individuals, I find myself drawn to the coaching business. And so last year, I went through a rigorous training of about six months and become and became a certified coach. And as I’m building that aspect of my business, it really focuses on people who are either in the entrepreneurial space or those who are just looking to find more purpose in their life. And that’s how that journey came about for me.

Lee Kantor: [00:12:01] Now, any advice for the business owner out there listening that maybe never had a coach before? Can you share some of kind of the. But maybe how to vet a coach or how to find the right coach for you.

Forrest Tuff: [00:12:16] Well, I think the biggest thing you want to do when finding a coach is make sure that they understand what your goals are. You know, I think oftentimes in coaching you can have a prescribed program, but you want to make sure that you tailor something to that person because everyone has a different need. They have a different outcome, and they also define success differently. So when you’re looking for a coach, make sure you ask those questions. You know, make sure they understand what you want, find out their history or if they have referrals of people they’ve worked with and have had some success. I think as long as you do your due diligence and you have a rapport or you like the person or you feel as if they can help you or their life shows you that they are living the thing that they’re trying to help you do. I think you’ll be all right now.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:04] Can you share a story and maybe you don’t have the name the name, but maybe they came to you, whether it’s through your business, through your coaching, through your speaking. They came to you and had a challenge and they were able to talk with you or work with you, and you are able to help them get to a new level like the most. An example that kind of illustrates the something that was rewarding for you and and and it had a big impact on the person.

Forrest Tuff: [00:13:29] Yes, I had a client that I worked with who had a desire to start a business. And the industry was working with pets, and it was a very unique business and they have been searching. To find someone to help them get to the finish line or to get started, for that matter. And so one of the things that we focused on was the finances, and we also talked about patience, you know, not being too eager. To get started until the foundation was laid for starting the business. Long story short, they were able to save a lot of money. They were able to get the finances they need because of the patients. They were able to open their location and get their business started, and it was a process that took about a year. But that was fulfilling because, number one, it wasn’t a it wasn’t a feel that I was familiar with. But there were things that I knew about the business that had nothing to do with pets. But more about having a facility licenses things of those nature, getting the business started and loans and finance. So when we got to the finish line and we had the grand opening you, it was great to stand there, take a picture with her and just see her facility and just see the satisfaction she had with her dream coming true.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:51] So now for people listening, who is an ideal candidate to work with you at one vision, whether it’s your coaching or whether it’s your production, what is kind of do you have a sweet spot in terms of the ideal customer that works with you?

Forrest Tuff: [00:15:06] Yes. If you are a small business owner or if you have you work for a corporation, the services we provide are really geared towards that. We do a lot of work with, like I say, government, local, state, even federal agencies in terms of providing services for internal videos, marketing packages, even helping with businesses to brand themselves if they have something new that they’re coming out with. So that would be the sweet spot as far as customers are concerned. Now for speaking engagements. You know, I talk with churches, youth groups, you know, conferences, entrepreneurial conferences and also film festivals and workshops. Those are some of the places where I’ve had the most traction as a speaker and been hired to speak.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:57] Well, congratulations on all the success force. If somebody wants to learn more, have more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, what’s the website?

Forrest Tuff: [00:16:07] Will visit me personally at four tough that’s fo r r e s t t USF. And you can find any of my social media or any of my other business sites located there. That’s a hub for everything that I do. So for stuff.

Lee Kantor: [00:16:26] Good stuff. Well, thank you again for sharing your story. You’re doing important work and we appreciate you.

Forrest Tuff: [00:16:31] Thank you so much, Leigh. All right.

Lee Kantor: [00:16:32] This is Lee Kantor. We will sail next time on Atlanta Business Radio.

 

Forrest Tuff with One Vision Productions

July 16, 2020 by angishields

OnPay-Banner

Forrest-Tuff-One-Vision-ProductionsForrest Tuff is the Founder and CEO of One Vision Productions, an award-winning, multimedia production company whose clientele includes small businesses and government agencies to Fortune 100 corporations. It has been named one of Atlanta’s Best and Brightest Companies to Work For.

As an empowerment speaker, Tuff shares his life experiences with the hope of motivating others to pursue their dreams. He is a Distinguished Toastmaster and has been recognized as the 2019 Toastmaster of the Year and a Top 100 Transformational Leader by the John Maxwell Team.

On the creative side, Tuff is an author and producer. He was a finalist for the Georgia Author of the Year Award and is the tv host and creator of Tuff Talk Show. An avid filmmaker, he has 100+ movie credits to include documentaries, indie film, and a major motion picture with 20th Century Fox.

An advocate for servant leadership, Tuff is a SCORE Certified Business Mentor and United Way VIP Alumnus. He received a Leadership Certificate from BoardSource and created a Pay It Forward grant which is annually awarded to a nonprofit. He is a recipient of the Martin Luther King Drum Major for Service and President’s Call to Service Awards.

Connect with Forrest on LinkedIn and follow One Vision Pruductions on Facebook and Twitter.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • Forrest’s journey to start One Vision Productions
  • How One Vision Productions has been recognized as one of Atlanta’s Best and Brightest Companies to Work For 6 years in a row
  • Why One Vision Productions went from a brick and mortar office to virtual and if this structure been beneficial during the COVID-19 pandemic
  • On Vision’s Pay It Forward community initiative
  • The organization SCORE

About Our Sponsor

OnPay’sOnPay-Dots payroll services and HR software give you more time to focus on what’s most important. Rated “Excellent” by PC Magazine, we make it easy to pay employees fast, we automate all payroll taxes, and we even keep all your HR and benefits organized and compliant.

Our award-winning customer service includes an accuracy guarantee, deep integrations with popular accounting software, and we’ll even enter all your employee information for you — whether you have five employees or 500. Take a closer look to see all the ways we can save you time and money in the back office.

Follow OnPay on LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter.

Episode 40: Lowering Overhead and Increasing Revenue with Forrest Tuff

April 8, 2019 by Mike

“When you call yourself the CEO, you have to make hard decisions.”  This is how Forrest Tuff describes the revelation that led to him redefining what success is at his film production company.  In this episode, he describes the two specific actions he took to reduce overhead that radically transformed his business model.  Find out how this transformation also increased his company’s operating capacity as well as competitive advantage leading to greater agility, revenue and profitability.

Special Guest: Forrest Tuff, CEO of One Vision Productions

Location: Atlanta, GA  USA

Show Notes:

  • SBA: the Small Business Administration offering free business counseling, access to business loans, and info to secure federal government contracts.
  • SCORE: the Service Corps of Retired Executives offering free small business mentoring.
  • Sales: Easily Sell Anything To Anyone & Achieve Sales Excellence In 7 Simple Steps (Sales, Sales Techniques, Sales Management, How To Sell, Charisma): a book by Steve Gold.
  • Run Your Business Like a Fortune 100: 7 Principles for Boosting Profits: a book by Rosalie Lober, Ph.D.
  • Blue Ocean Strategy: How to Create Uncontested Market Space and Make the Competition Irrelevant: a book by W. Chan Kim and Renée Mauborgne.

 

Workplace MVP: Erika Lance, Chief Human Resources Officer, KnowBe4

July 22, 2021 by John Ray

KnowBe4

Workplace MVP: Erika Lance, Chief Human Resources Officer, KnowBe4

Recently named 2021 OnCon HR Professional of the Year, Erika Lane, Chief Human Resources Officer for KnowBe4, joined host Jamie Gassmann to discuss her career journey and share her experiences and ideas on hiring the right person for the job and the culture, holding the hiring individuals responsible for the quality and fit of that hire, and how KnowBe4 retains and supports their “Knowsters.” Erika also explains KnowBe4 initiatives like Project Restart, for workers stuck in careers they don’t enjoy, and Project New Start, for veterans and first responders who are changing careers. Workplace MVP is underwritten and presented by R3 Continuum and produced by the Minneapolis-St.Paul Studio of Business RadioX®.

KnowBe4

KnowBe4, the provider of the world’s largest security awareness training and simulated phishing platform, is used by more than 35,000 organizations around the globe. Founded by IT and data security specialist Stu Sjouwerman, KnowBe4 helps organizations address the human element of security by raising awareness about ransomware, CEO fraud and other social engineering tactics through a new-school approach to awareness training on security.

Kevin Mitnick, an internationally recognized cybersecurity specialist and KnowBe4’s Chief Hacking Officer, helped design the KnowBe4 training based on his well-documented social engineering tactics. Tens of thousands of organizations rely on KnowBe4 to mobilize their end users as the last line of defense.

Forrester Research has named KnowBe4 a Leader in the 2020 Forrester Wave for Security Awareness and Training Solutions. KnowBe4 received the highest scores possible in 17 of the 23 evaluation criteria, including learner content and go-to-market approach.

The KnowBe4 platform is user-friendly and intuitive. It was built to scale for busy IT pros that have 16 other fires to put out. Our goal was to design the most powerful, yet easy-to-use platform available.

Customers of all sizes can get the KnowBe4 platform deployed into production twice as fast as our competitors. Their Customer Success team gets you going in no time, without the need for consulting hours.

They are proud of the fact that more than 50% of their team are women, where the average in cybersecurity is just 20% of employees.

Company website | LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter

Erika Lance, Chief Human Resources Officer, KnowBe4

Erika Lance, Chief Human Resources Officer, KnowBe4

With over 25 years of experience and prestigious awards such as the 2021 OnCon HR Professional of the Year Award and the 2018 Tampa Bay Business Journal’s People First Award, Lance is a distinguished leader in the Human Resources field. She has been promoted to chief human resources officer at KnowBe4 where she is responsible for leading the global HR team and developing new initiatives for recruiting, retention, company culture and diversity. Under her leadership throughout the last few years, the People Operations team has grown from 10 team members to over 50 team members in 11 countries across six continents. Lance is most well known for her radical transparency and her people-centric approach to Human Resources.

The OnCon Icon Awards recognize the top HR professionals and HR vendors in the entire world. Finalists were voted on by peers to determine the winners. Voting on finalists was open to the public and was based on the following criteria:

  • Made a considerable impact on their organization and/or previous organizations.
  • Made strong contributions to their professional community through thought leadership.
  • Innovate in their role/career.
  • Exhibit exceptional leadership.

“As HR leaders we’ve dealt with a lot of changes this year, and I’m sure there are still more to come,” said Lance. “The fact that we’re talking about and awarding the successes from this year just shows that we’re doing something right. We all adjusted to working from home. We all had to get used to this new way of life and hopefully we’ve all figured out ways to keep our employees happy, healthy and engaged while working remotely.”

Lance was recognized for spearheading new employee initiatives during COVID-19 pandemic to keep energy and morale high. Her leadership has directly positively influenced KnowBe4 and its employees.

LinkedIn

R3 Continuum

R3 Continuum is a global leader in workplace behavioral health and security solutions. R3c helps ensure the psychological and physical safety of organizations and their people in today’s ever-changing and often unpredictable world. Through their continuum of tailored solutions, including evaluations, crisis response, executive optimization, protective services, and more, they help organizations maintain and cultivate a workplace of wellbeing so that their people can thrive. Learn more about R3c at www.r3c.com.

Company website | LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter

About Workplace MVP

Every day, around the world, organizations of all sizes face disruptive events and situations. Within those workplaces are everyday heroes in human resources, risk management, security, business continuity, and the C-suite. They don’t call themselves heroes though. On the contrary, they simply show up every day, laboring for the well-being of employees in their care, readying the workplace for and planning responses to disruption. This show, Workplace MVP, confers on these heroes the designation they deserve, Workplace MVP (Most Valuable Professionals), and gives them the forum to tell their story. As you hear their experiences, you will learn first-hand, real life approaches to readying the workplace, responses to crisis situations, and overcoming challenges of disruption. Visit our show archive here.

Workplace MVP Host Jamie Gassmann

In addition to serving as the host to the Workplace MVP podcast, Jamie Gassmann is the Director of Marketing at R3 Continuum (R3c). Collectively, she has more than fourteen years of marketing experience. Across her tenure, she has experience working in and with various industries including banking, real estate, retail, crisis management, insurance, business continuity, and more. She holds a Bachelor of Science Degree in Mass Communications with special interest in Advertising and Public Relations and a Master of Business Administration from Paseka School of Business, Minnesota State University

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:03] Broadcasting from the Business RadioX Studios, it’s time for Workplace MVP. Workplace MVP is brought to you by R3 Continuum, a global leader in workplace behavioral health, crisis, and security solutions. Now, here’s your host, Jamie Gassmann.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:00:24] Hi, everyone. Your host, Jamie Gassmann, here and welcome to this episode of Workplace MVP. So, picture this, you have an open position, you’ve crafted what you believe to be the best written job description you could possibly write, and you’re now navigating the various candidates who have applied. As you comb through the numerous resumes, looking at the talent pool options who have expressed interest in your position, you identify some standout candidates that on paper seem to have most of the skills and experience you are seeking. The interview is scheduled and it’s time to meet the candidate in person.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:01:02] But how do you ensure you are asking the right questions to truly gauge if they are a cultural fit within, not just your organization, but the team they will be working with? Also, they may not have 100 percent of the skills and experience you are seeking. How much of the job description are you willing to accept as enough? Or which of the skills and experience are non-negotiables, they have to have them? These are questions that leaders likely face every time they venture into the hiring process. How can they create an approach to hiring or promoting within that not only ensures they make better hiring decisions, but that they are setting the employee and the organization up for a better chance at success.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:01:46] With us today to share her approaches that have delivered proven results to her organization is award winning Workplace MVP Erika Lance, Chief Human Resources Officer for KnowBe4. Welcome to the show, Erika.

Erika Lance: [00:02:00] Wow. Thank you for having me. That was an amazing intro. I appreciate it.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:02:05] And congratulations to you on your recent promotion to Chief Human Resources Officer. What an incredible honor. And I really like to have you walk me through your career journey and tell us a little bit about how you got to this role.

Erika Lance: [00:02:18] Well, I have a very interesting career journey. I will say it actually goes back to when I was very young. I’m not going to mention my age because of my fabulousness. But when I was younger, I had a job working in administration at a stock brokerage firm, and I had helped come through a couple resumes with them with no training. I do tell people this story that I actually got my GED. I didn’t finish high school. I just start working for my family when I was about 14 years old and didn’t go to college for this. So, I had an administrative job and did that.

Erika Lance: [00:02:54] So, when I was looking for my next job, I put on there that I did some recruitment. And that next job saw that and they’re like, “Oh, you know how to do hiring? You know how to do H.R.?” And, of course, I was like, “Yeah. Absolutely. I did all of those things,” which I had not. So, it was a little bit of trial by fire to do that. But I’m a firm believer that you can take on any challenge you want if you’re willing to do the learning and the research necessary to do that.

Erika Lance: [00:03:22] So, I’ve had a very interesting career that has then taken me from that moment of, maybe, overstating my resume a little bit to where I am today, which has been very, very fortunate. And I consider kind of an exception to the rule, generally, when you have that kind of background. But I was fortunate that they believed me and that I was able to rapidly compensate for that lack of knowledge to be able to move forward.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:03:51] It’s very impressive. And in addition to the promotion, you recently were awarded the 2021 OnCon HR Professional of the Year Award. So, tell me a little bit about receiving that honor.

Erika Lance: [00:04:02] That was super exciting. Why it was most exciting to me is, it’s voted on. People have to vote for you. Obviously, any award is voted on. But I mean, it’s not like a committee vote. Like, people sign in and vote for you. So, when I got nominated, I was super excited, so I let my Knowsters – that’s what we call our KnowBe4 employees – know that I was nominated, if they felt like they wanted to put in a vote. And then, I posted it on LinkedIn and also on Facebook.

Erika Lance: [00:04:35] And when it came time, they asked for us to have some speeches ready and I’m like, “Why are they asking me to have a speech ready?” So, I had a speech ready. And then, I went in there, like, they’re going through the categories, and I kept thinking I missed my name because they were listing a lot of people. And no, no, I received it. And, to me, it was just such an honor because it was voted on by people for me. And so, they think that I’m good enough to receive that award, which is really the difference you want to make as an H.R. person, is, you want to have that impact on employees, whether it’s current employees or former employees.

Erika Lance: [00:05:16] And a lot of the messages I got on LinkedIn and stuff when I had posted it was like, “I voted. You’re fantastic. Thank you for everything.” And there are people I don’t work with anymore, like they were at previous jobs and they were saying that. And as an H.R. professional, that’s the impact you want to have, is that, you’ve made enough of a difference in people’s lives. That something like this comes up and they’re like, “Absolutely. I’m putting your name in.” So, that was wonderful to me.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:05:43] Very amazing and validating that taking on that role so many years ago has really paid off and kind of created this incredible journey and opened doors and opportunities for you. That’s fantastic.

Erika Lance: [00:05:54] Absolutely.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:05:56] So, now, since you’ve been at KnowBe4, you’ve really grown your H.R. team quite a bit. And how have you supported your employees as you’ve gone through that growth? Because, obviously, growing departments and that change that can take place can kind of sometimes create challenging environments or challenging times. So, talk me through a little bit about how you navigated that.

Erika Lance: [00:06:21] Absolutely. One of the things that I’m a firm believer in is you have to build people to what they want to do when they decide what they want to be when they grow up again. Everybody talks about decide what you want to be when you grow up. I think we get to decide that a hundred times in our lives. We get to keep changing what we want to be when we grow up again.

Erika Lance: [00:06:41] And so, when I bring on people to the team – and I know we’re going to talk a little bit about this culture adds – is I find people that have backgrounds that can add to what the team already has, but really, really make sure my team is getting trained and certified, any mentoring or coaching that they need, so that I can grow people to grow up within the team. Because the institutional knowledge your team members get is so vital that they can just help with that.

Intro: [00:07:15] And I’ve been growing in 11 different countries, so we’re a global group. But that, along with radical honesty and radical transparency and making it super safe for employees to communicate. And when there are problems, if you make it safe for employees to communicate, they tell the problems instead of hoping nobody finds the problem. Which, unfortunately, some companies foster that, that you can’t put your arm up and say, “Hey, I created this problem and sometimes I don’t know how to solve it.” Because if they do that, they could get fired or something like that versus realizing everybody’s going to make mistakes. So, I really foster that environment.

Erika Lance: [00:07:59] And a lot of the people that worked for me, not only at KnowBe4, but in other jobs have been promoted up. And some have moved into other areas of the company to be successful there. I had one gentleman who moved from our employee relations and he’s now in our HRIS area because he loved the technology, love that, had all the H.R. experience. That worked out for me because, now, the person is working on our HRIS and IT knows H.R. instead of just an I.T. person who doesn’t know H.R. So, that’s what I do, is, I grow people because I want them to continue to expand and move up. But, yeah, we started with around eight, I think, and now I have over 60 in three-and-a-half years.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:08:46] That’s incredible growth. That’s a lot of hiring. And I’m going to touch on kind of your hiring process and kind of the approach that you use, but quick question on creating that culture of allowing people to own when they’ve made a mistake or create a problem. How do you approach that? How do you create that environment with your individuals? Do you do that by being transparent when you yourself make an error? Or is it through conversations you have with them to create that comfort level? How do you go about that?

Erika Lance: [00:09:24] Well, first of all, anything like that has to start at the very top of the organization. I’m very, very fortunate that Stu Sjouwerman, who’s the CEO of KnowBe4 and who I report to, does the same thing. If he makes a mistake, we have a morning meeting every morning with all employees, and he’ll own up right on the morning meeting if something happened and then it wasn’t correct. And we use the term extreme ownership.

Erika Lance: [00:09:50] We have a reading list of books for our company, and there’s one called Extreme Ownership that was written by two Navy SEALs. Amazing. And it talks about just taking ownership. If you’re over an area, you never throw your employees under the bus even if a mistake is made. It’s your area, you’re responsible for it. So, any mistake made beneath you, you have to own that mistake and resolve it correctly. So, we say extreme ownership there.

Erika Lance: [00:10:18] And the book, Powerful, by Patty McCord talks about radical honesty and radical transparency in your workplace. And so, we tell people that we start with that when they’re onboarding. We have a whole onboarding process that has a Welcome to KnowBe4. It used to be in-person. Obviously, COVID changed things. But we have a video now of all of us that they met in person giving our little tidbits of advice on things.

Erika Lance: [00:10:45] And I find the employees are waiting for another shoe to drop when they start at KnowBe4, because you say, “We have this. It’s safe. You can talk.” And their immediate thing is, “I’m not saying a word. I’m not going to say anything.” Because you’re so used to people going, “Oh, yeah. We have an open door.” But then, there’s another open door behind the person, and you go right out the open door, and you don’t have a job anymore. So, we show them by the actions that we take that it’s safe. We let it come up. We let it come up naturally.

Erika Lance: [00:11:16] Even if something happens and you go, “Hey, did this happen?” And they’re maybe a little skittish and going, “Yeah. But -” and they try to explain that. I always tell, “Stop. Stop defending. Just explain what happened. Okay. Cool. Do you have a solution for it or do you want some advice?” And then, the first time it happens, they aren’t fired and they aren’t on a disciplinary warning for something silly. Because we’re all going to make mistakes. I make mistakes. I started with, “Hi. I have a ton of major experience. I know what mistakes are.” But you have to be willing to go, “Okay. That happened. Let’s see if we can prevent it from happening again.” If it’s the same mistake over and over, that’s a different situation. But, you know, it’s Jurassic Park, we’ve got to make all new mistakes.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:12:02] Yeah. Absolutely. You learn from them is kind of some of the advice I give to my employees who are afraid to make that mistake. So, looking at your hiring practices, you have some best practice approaches that you use in navigating that process that helps you, especially within this level of expansion that you had. Can you share those with our listeners?

Erika Lance: [00:12:27] No. They’re top secret. Nobody can know anything. Just kidding. Of course. I believe in sharing knowledge. It’s a huge thing for me, because the more we share successful things in H.R., the more we can help each other expand an organization. So, how it works at KnowBe4 before is, we have, obviously, our expansion team, which are our recruiters. So, I’ll say the term recruiter, even though we call it something different, just so that everybody understands. And we also have the hiring managers.

Erika Lance: [00:12:53] The biggest thing is we created training for hiring managers that explain what their duties, what their role is in this. And one of the key components for both the recruiters and the hiring manager is that – I stated it and this is my firm belief – both of those people are 100 percent responsible for the human that they hire. So, if they hire them and something goes wrong or is off, we do a lot of look backs to go, “Was there something we missed in the hiring process? Was there something we missed in the onboarding? Was there something we missed in training? Like, how do we avoid not having that situation happen?” Obviously, if somebody had a family emergency and their mom was terribly sick and they had to leave, there’s no look back. Like, you can’t know that the mom was going to get sick. We’re not quite to that stage of Jedi mind powers yet.

Erika Lance: [00:13:44] But we could say that, if something goes wrong and the employee doesn’t work out, both of these guys are 100 percent responsible and they should be defending their choice to hire this. So, if either one of them don’t feel like this person is a good fit, they’re allowed to say no during the process. Either side, both the hiring manager and the recruiter, are both allowed to do that.

Erika Lance: [00:14:07] We also firmly believe in using – I call it – Spidey senses, because Spider-Man talks about it when his hair stands up on him. But if you get a gut feeling during the interview process, either in a positive way or a negative way, you can utilize that because sometimes that’s all you get. You can’t exactly pinpoint what the problem is, but you know there’s something wrong. The agreement is we stop the process and you just have to go, “I don’t feel like they’re the right candidate.” And it’s okay, we don’t have to justify the reason they don’t feel like it’s the right candidate.

Erika Lance: [00:14:41] But we go through a series of things, like, for a lot of the positions. First of all, we do not let our ATS filter for us. I think ATSs, which is Applicant Tracking System, is filtering your prospects based on 25 key words or phrases. You lose the humans in that. You completely lose the humans because a lot of people don’t know you have to write your resume to that. Or they go in and they write their resume to that, but they still might not be a qualified candidate. They just figured out the the glitch in the ATS matrix, so to speak.

Erika Lance: [00:15:17] So, we have them reviewed. We have sample questions – that’s usually the first step – about their experience in that particular kind of role to ask back. They have a phone interview with the recruiter to see how how they answer a series of questions and how the recruiter feels about them. And then, the recruiter will move them on to the hiring manager. And the next would be, potentially, a series of tests depending on the role. Like, our developers do a whiteboard test on some development skills just to see.

Erika Lance: [00:15:51] Because, obviously, resumes can say anything. I mean that evident by my resume previously. They can say anything, it’s just what is the actual experience that that person has. And maybe they’re not even saying enough about their experience on the resume because we’re not the greatest at teaching people how to write resumes in the world. I know there’s classes and people who write them for you, but this is an art form that isn’t always done correctly.

Erika Lance: [00:16:18] But they get a chance to do that, do a face-to-face, depending on the level of the employee. They might do a few more if they’re an executive and stuff. But we have key questions around being a manager. We have some trick questions about being a manager and stuff. But it allows the person to go through the process. And we also talk a lot about what the company culture is like.

Erika Lance: [00:16:41] One of the things at KnowBe4, for instance, is Halloween is a really big deal. Like, everybody almost dresses up for Halloween. We dress up areas. Like, this is a huge deal. So, we ask every applicant what their favorite Halloween costume is or what do they think of Halloween and stuff like that. And if somebody is like, “Oh, my gosh. It’s the worst holiday in the world. I think it’s so dumb, blah, blah, blah.” Regardless of anything else, they are probably not going to be a fit for KnowBe4. For them as well, because we do so many things that are like that, that are inspired by things and are fun and party like.

Erika Lance: [00:17:20] We used to do quarterly mingles before COVID, and we had a bowl, and a rock climb. Like, do you want to participate in these things if you seem to want to be very conservative or something? Maybe you won’t be a great fit for that or that team if that team is really playful. And I think it’s both the company and what is the culture of that team like? What do they like to do? We all have different managers. Some are, like, the very Care Bears kind of managers. And some are the very, like, let’s do a team sport kind of managers. And will they fit in with that as well?

Erika Lance: [00:18:00] So, I think you have to find people that our culture adds and culture fits, but you have to be very good at telling them this is what it’s actually like. Every one of our interviews, too, is, we’ll explain what the day-to-day is like for the person instead of very generalities. And the worst question I think you can say to an employee is, “We move really fast here. This is a fast-paced environment,” without defining what that means. Because if they go, “Oh, yeah, no. I’m really good in fast-paced environments.” And, say, you want them to do data entry and you go, “Well, you have to enter 200 files a day.” And to them, fast-paced is 50 files a day, you’re not going to have a fit for an employee. But you’re not going to know that because you didn’t ask them what that means, like what is it actually like.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:18:49] So, you’re kind of touching on it a little bit, that cultural fit. Can you define for the audience what you mean by that? Like, when you’re in that hiring process, what is culture fit?

Erika Lance: [00:19:03] For us, cultural fit is somebody who is looking for more than just a job. They’re looking for a place that they can grow and expand in, that they can be their own self in. And that they want to be a part of the team. And that’s a key part, does a person really want to be part of the team? Because all of our activity center are around a team.

Erika Lance: [00:19:30] Another thing is, we have metrics for every single position within the company. We do metrics on it, so we keep numbers. Are they fine with that? Are they fine with having the numbers thing? Are they fine with a very open work environment? Meaning, we have an open floor plan. Obviously, COVID, a lot of people have worked from home. But we have an open floor plan, are they comfortable with that? Are they comfortable with being held to a certain standard? Or how do they feel about, like, the fun part of the atmosphere? How do they feel about some of the activities? We do a ton of team building activities, whether it’s on a small team itself or on the larger sector area division of it.

Erika Lance: [00:20:17] And then, just kind of finding out where they feel they fit from a job standpoint or career standpoint within a company. Are they just there to punch a clock? They’re not going to be a very good Knowster. And some people can want to do that and it’s totally fine, but they’re not going to do well because the teams going to want to rally the teamness and they’re going to want to stand out, which can create in individuation for them.

Erika Lance: [00:20:43] And even if they don’t want the team thing, then the rest of the team goes, “Why does this person not want to be on the team?” And it can create a weirdness. And you avoid that by defining what that team is like and what are the fun things that you do and what is expected. And you’re expected to learn a lot. We’re constantly learning. We’re constantly reading books. Like, how do you feel about that sort of thing? Because if you’re going to be upset every time a new training course comes out, well, you’re not going to be a good cultural fit. This is going to be very stressful for you when these things come up. We have to do these courses.

Erika Lance: [00:21:20] “There’s another book to read? Waah.” Well, it sounds silly. I mentioned two books already. We have a reading list of about 20 books that are recommended. Not everybody has to read them, but some team do. Like, there’s a book called Never Split the Difference that was written by an FBI negotiator. And that’s something our sales team has to read. Well, if you’re like, “No, I hate reading. I’m not going to read.” You may have a problem when we have these books. So, it’s little things like that that can create great divides between areas.

Erika Lance: [00:21:57] And sales, we have goals every month. And you have to want to play that game of getting that goal. We have lots of fun things around that. But if you’re not into that, you’re going to not be a cultural fit or a cultural add.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:22:08] I love that you guys have very defined kind of cultural nuances that are important to the overall success of the organization. So, for other organizations, is there a way that they can train or empower their leaders to understand their own culture to be able to leverage cultural fit when they’re doing their interview process? If you were going to give recommendation for that, what would you give?

Erika Lance: [00:22:37] I would say get it defined from the top of the organization what the culture needs to be. Then, secondarily, train every single person in an executive or management capacity on what that is and how you do that. Meaning, if you have a process, like we have a process where our managers are responsible for their humans. H.R. does not do disciplinary actions. We assist and guide on how a warning needs to be written or said just because there are so many nuances, as we all know in H.R., about what is right versus what is correct for an area to be in.

Erika Lance: [00:23:15] But we have the managers for the discipline. They’re fully responsible. They get all the good and the bad with the people. But they have to understand how the overall management philosophy, aka culture, needs to run. How do we all agree and define those cultural points and then make sure everyone is adhering to them?

Erika Lance: [00:23:37] Like, we have a policy called Say It To Your Face. If you have a problem with somebody, you don’t get to go complain to somebody else. You have to say it to them. Now, if you don’t feel comfortable, you can ask for assistance to do that. But we really hold our employees responsible. We’re adults. And it’s very different, obviously, if you’re being sexually harassed or something like that, please report that correctly. But if somebody just said something to you the wrong way or sent an email that seemed snarky, go over to them and go, “Hey, Bob. Listen, I got your email and I don’t know if you’re upset or what, but can we talk about whatever this is?” If you don’t do that, it creates separation.

Erika Lance: [00:24:18] So, that’s like a philosophy we have. So, every manager, if somebody comes and goes, “I’m really mad. Sally said blah to me.” They’ll go, “Okay. Did you say it to Sally’s face?” That will come out of every single manager’s mouth because that’s how we operate. And if they don’t have the strength to do it themselves, we go, “If you want some help, we can help you. But if you just choose not to do it, then that’s on you.”

Erika Lance: [00:24:43] I think a lot of organizations have forgotten somehow that all of the people that work for them, besides when they’re certain, are adults. They’re adults and you should treat them like adults, but they should be responsible for themselves. And H.R. shouldn’t be this really scary thing that has to come thundering in to solve all these problems that can be solved with open communication. And so, we started at the top and then we filtered it all the way down through our training and everything, so that’s all the case. And it’s defined for the employees what’s expected. And if you treat them all the same way, you get sort of a lot.

Erika Lance: [00:25:20] I’m going to use the analogy of a beehive. If something tries to go into a beehive that will mess up the beehive, the rest of the bees will solve that problem. So, it’s not H.R. or manager that has to solve the problem. Because if somebody goes to somebody else and goes, “Sally said blah, blah, blah to me today.” They’ll go, “Well, did you tell it to her?” Because they know that that’s the Say It To Your Face mentality that the whole company has. So, you get less problems.

Erika Lance: [00:25:46] We have less than a one percent situation rate with employees at our company, which, to me, is unheard of to have that. A lot of companies have up to a 20 percent issue rate, whether it’s investigations or disciplinary actions and stuff like that. And I think it’s because they’re not putting the responsibility from the top of the organization down that everybody’s operating with a set of defined guidelines – not rules. People don’t like rules – and guidelines as to how the company is to operate. So, they can get in trouble even unknowingly because stuff can fester.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:26:23] Absolutely. Especially when you’ve got those conflicts that aren’t resolved directly with the parties that are involved in those conflicts. So, in looking at, you know, gauging somebody as a culture fit, why is that so important? You’ve kind of touched on this a little bit, but diving into it a little bit deeper, you know, what can happen to an organization when they aren’t hiring somebody who is a fit to that company? Productivity wise or financially, what might be some of the things that they may be experiencing now as challenges that they need to think about?

Erika Lance: [00:27:04] Well, I think the more a positions open, the more desperate a hiring manager or a manager of that area gets. I make the joke sometimes, it gets to the point where they’re like, “Can you breathe on a mirror? Okay. You’re qualified. Let’s go. Let’s do it. We just don’t want zombies.” The problem with that is that, if you bring somebody in to the company that is not a fit for the company, not a fit for that team, they’re not going to work out. So, depending on how long it takes us all to come to this realization or the great “I told you so they’re not going to work out,” you’re losing money. You’re not getting the correct fit for that position. So, you’re losing money with every second that person’s on the team.

Erika Lance: [00:27:45] Then, when they leave, with all the institutional knowledge or effort you put into them, you’ve literally just lost potentially tens of thousands to millions, depending on the position. Like, you take somebody who’s an enterprise level salesperson for your organization bringing in millions of dollars. And you’ve had that open and they’ve established relationships with consumers that somebody has to start again from scratch to do. That’s potentially millions of dollars out the door because you did not make sure that person was a fit for the team. Because a person who is not a fit for the team will eventually not want to be there.

Erika Lance: [00:28:23] They can also cause problems if there are personality conflicts. Because certain personalities – and not everybody has to be the same. This isn’t a lemming thing – will not work well with other personalities. It is just hello, human nature. And we all have that in even our family lives. As much as we all love family, there are certain family members that you’re like, “Do not sit next to Joe and talk about politics because it will end badly.” So, if you don’t find those personalities that it will go well and have the right view of how work should be, then, eventually, they won’t be there anymore. They won’t be happy.

Erika Lance: [00:29:08] You have to hope they do not create a huge problem on their way out in the form of investigations or whatever. Because if somebody feels slighted – and we’re talking a little bit about this earlier when we were talking about the conflicts with people – the moment somebody has a conflict with somebody or think somebody is bad, they put on a different color glasses and they’re not rose colored in the nice pretty way. They are different. Every communication then received by that person is in that vein.

Erika Lance: [00:29:34] So, even if it’s not intended to be snarky or mean or whatever they think, they’re going to be defensive and think it’s there and a problem can build and build and build. And if it builds in a certain way and the manager doesn’t realize what’s happening and all of this stuff, then you could potentially have a lawsuit on your hands because nobody knew that this cultural fit problem was occurring. And the person ends up saying they felt harassed or singled out or whatever. And by default they were because they weren’t part of the team to begin with.

Erika Lance: [00:30:11] So, it is so important that you have that piece, but that that piece is so defined for your organization. But you have to sort of put the rules. We have a policy we have in our handbook, which is the Welcome to KnowBe4. It was written by Stu on his whole, like, how KnowBe4 came into being, this is what it is. And then, I wrote one called The Common Sense Guide to KnowBe4. Like, here are the little things that you need to know to be a Knowster at KnowBe4 and to get you out of trouble. Those are the first steps to how to agree with things.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:30:45] Great. Great information. So, in talking about, like, they get desperate for hiring, as you’re probably aware, that some industries right now are really having difficulty in hiring employees for various types of roles, you know, trying to get that right level of experience, maybe that right of level of education based around how they’ve crafted that job description for who they feel is the ideal candidate. Are there things that they maybe should be looking at or considering maybe changing in that job description that might open up possibilities for a different channel of candidates or a different level of candidates that maybe they hadn’t originally thought would be the right fit, but maybe opens up opportunity for them to expand that candidate pool?

Erika Lance: [00:31:37] Yes. I feel a lot of times people write job descriptions like they write perfect dating apps, where you’re looking for this perfect person and they need to be X tall, and this built, and this kind of career, and you have chiseled jaw, and dark hair, and blue eyes. And like you’re writing a job description as if you’re looking for a unicorn. And fantastic for all the humans out there that write a job description or a dating profile and get that unicorn to show up.

Erika Lance: [00:32:06] But the problem is, you have candidates out there that are looking at this job description and go, “I don’t qualify.” Well, do you actually need all those things? Because if you don’t need the level of education, there are a lot of people that have experience that don’t have the education. And no offense to everybody who went to school, but sometimes those people are better than the people that have the education because they’ve been there, they’ve done it, and they have all the t-shirts from doing it. So, if you limit your pool to where you’re looking for only Pegasus’ and unicorns or whatever, dragons and unicorns – I can make a lot of fantasy analogies – if you’re only looking for that, then you’re going to have a hard time finding the person.

Erika Lance: [00:32:53] Also, you need to go look at hiring managers. You need to go on LinkedIn. You need to go out there and go to the different – like, there’s a lot of, for instance, developer meetups or salespeople meetups. There’s all these meet ups in the communities, H.R. meetups. Like, if you’re an H.R. professional, trust me, you can find eight million meet ups to go to, to be the H.R. professional. But you need to go as the hiring manager and find some people and look for your own humans. You know what you’re looking for, so go look for them as well. But you got to lower your expectations, not for what you genuinely need, but go what would lead to a good candidate.

Erika Lance: [00:33:32] And I’ll give an example. I have hired several people into H.R. that have done retail management experience. They’re not H.R. professionals at all. But guess what? When you do retail, like all of us who have been lucky enough to also do fast food and stuff, you get a level of patience and understanding with the weirdest things that can happen. And in your retail, especially if you’re a retail store manager – which they escalate a lot of people interior to the retail store managers – you have had experience dealing with pretty much anything an employee can do and come up with – you know what I mean? – to be a part of it. So, do you want to be an H.R.? Do you want to train? Because you’ve got the experience of being calm, cool, collective in dealing with some of the stuff that comes up from an employee relations standpoint.

Erika Lance: [00:34:24] It’s been wildly successful for me to have that because I was willing to go, “Let me look beyond what I’m looking for, for that person who does good customer relations, who does customer service.” What are other professions that do that where the person maybe didn’t have the chance, but you have this much experience dealing with customers. Are they a good fit? And here’s the thing, too, is you help somebody advance and change their career path. They are going to be some of the most loyal employees you ever have because of what the company has done for them to help them out. And it’s the right view. So, if you can take something different, do that.

Erika Lance: [00:35:09] And go look, part of your responsibility as an executive or manager is to go find your own people. Go find them, meet them, get them to apply, get them in the door because you’ll meet them and see if they’re qualified. You get to do a pre-screening with them.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:35:24] Right. Kind of looking for those transferable skills, maybe not necessarily the experience background, but experience around areas that could be applicable in that role. Very interesting.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:35:37] So, real quick, we’re going to just get a word from our sponsor. Workplace MVP is sponsored by R3 Continuum. R3 Continuum is a global leader in providing expert, reliable, responsive, and tailored behavioral health, crisis, and security solutions to promote workplace wellbeing and performance in the face of an ever changing and often unpredictable world. Learn more about how R3 Continuum can tailor a solution for your organization’s unique challenges by visiting r3c.com today.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:36:09] So, you had mentioned in a previous conversation that employers need to also look within the organization that there may be employees with strong institutional knowledge who might be afraid to speak up about movements and career advancement. So, what kind of tips or advice would you give to leaders to help them in identifying employees that are probably sitting there waiting to be asked to move up or waiting to be asked about their career and maybe aren’t quite as confident to bring that up in a conversation. What advice would you give?

Erika Lance: [00:36:44] I think it’s very important for managers to have one-on-ones around what the career path for the employees that are working for them is and what they want to do. And make it very safe that maybe they want to do something in another part of the organization. Another thing is, we have a dedicated career team. Team employee gets to interact with them. They get to meet the career person on onboarding. We have the career person has an entire part of our intranet that they talk about things. They have different seminars. They have also gotten with every leader and mapped out the career tracks for the person and where they end up needing to go and stuff like that.

Erika Lance: [00:37:22] So, like, what steps do they need to take? What knowledge base do they need to have in order to move up into roles? And we have a tuition reimbursement and a certification policy where we help pay for the certifications that the employees need. And we have training courses so they can train. And we believe employees should have about five hours a week to train, whether it’s on their own position or other things. And they can train so they can be ready to move into maybe the junior role in that area they want to move into. Or we have manager training. So, maybe they weren’t a manager before, but they want to move up into leadership, here’s a manager training and this is how you do it.

Erika Lance: [00:38:01] I think that we promote from within between 20 and 30 percent every year of people. We do that because those are Knowsters – that’s what we call them – that want to be a part of something bigger and help the organization. And because of all the knowledge they have, they just bring that to the next area. Like, my story in the beginning about the person who moved from my employee relations over to I.T, they took all that H.R. and KnowBe4 knowledge, so when it comes up to why does H.R. need this program this way? We don’t have to go through a back and forth. He is just going to go, “They need a program this way because A, B, and C, this is what they do with it.” That’s invaluable.

Erika Lance: [00:38:45] But guess what? I couldn’t hire that because nobody has done the H.R. in my H.R. area to know the answer to that question. And that happens over and over again. Plus, that loyalty thing, if you bring somebody up within your ranks of your organization, they know there’s a loyalty. Gone are the days where people are staying at companies to get the gold watch and the retirement fund and stuff like that. I say that all the time to younger people and they have no idea what I’m talking about when I say the gold watch thing, but it’s very funny to me. It was in the movie Speed. That’s gone.

Erika Lance: [00:39:20] We don’t have that anymore where people want to stay to retire at a company. If they want to continue to grow, they’re going to leave and then potentially leave and then apply back at your company. And they’re going to come back at a much higher rate and whatever, where you could have had them this whole time growing them up into that thing. It always makes me sad when I see somebody leave a company for another job that you have within the company. You’re just not willing to give them a shot and they’re super successful. It’s silly to me to lose that talent.

Erika Lance: [00:39:52] So, I think you have to remember to put those things in because every person who walks out the door, if you only even just lose their annual salary, that’s tens of thousands of dollars that walk out the door. Just pay somebody to help get them to a higher spot within your organization.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:40:11] Yeah. I imagine this approach that you’re describing about helping them with that career growth. It impacts retention in a very positive way within an organization. Well, in even just knowing that the support that you’re providing, even if they just want to have education but maybe are comfortable where they’re at, I can imagine that also can create some retention benefits, too.

Erika Lance: [00:40:38] Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You have to want to have those people be there, and it shows the employees. And then, they refer their friends that are very qualified. Like, they talk about it. How do you get a great place to work? Like, all the awards and everything like that, we’ve gotten a ton of awards. And I really love that we’ve gotten a ton of awards. But it’s because our employees were surveyed and they love working for us. We don’t get those awards just because anybody believes that. You can’t nominate yourself and somebody just look and go, “Oh, KnowBe4 is cool. We’re going to give them an award.” It’s based 100 percent on what your employees are saying and thinking about you. That’s how you create that part of the culture and that they want to work there. And then, you’re a best place to work and then you get more employees that want to work there.

Erika Lance: [00:41:29] You’re talking about earlier recruitment things, well, how about creating an environment that is so amazing that people are beating down the door to be a part of your company. That helps solve some of the recruitment things, not all of them. Trust me, there are still unicorns you got to find out there. But it makes a huge difference.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:41:49] Definitely. And so, you mentioned the advantages in creating a foundation that feeds future success of the organization. I think you’re probably touching on it a little bit. But can you share about how that works within the organization? And I think maybe you’ve already touched on that a little bit. But if there’s anything additional that you can provide around that foundation that you’ve created.

Erika Lance: [00:42:17] I think it’s, again, creating the foundation from the top. The very top of the organization has to have the same belief and understanding that the rest does. And then, define it and promote it, and promote it constantly. And constantly remind employees about the different parts. You can do word walls, you can do meetings, however you do that, letters from the CEO. I know at some points having an all company meeting is out of the question. You have one hundred thousand employees, you probably will have a hard time doing that. But you have it filtered through the managers. You make it so it’s scalable. But you keep it going and you do not change it. You enhance it.

Erika Lance: [00:43:02] Don’t change the rules on the employees unless you’re giving them a benefit. Because if you make it harder to do something, you’re going to lose some of that feeling that the company is on their side during the process. And, remember, it’s a team activity. I don’t care if you’re at the very top of an organization, you’re built on every single person that works for you and every single thing they’re doing.

Erika Lance: [00:43:28] I worked at a company previously that had a huge mailroom. And it was a document processing company for mortgages. And people would say derogatory things about the mail room. And I was like, “Hey, so the documents don’t go in or out of this organization without the mailroom doing their job correctly and on time. We don’t meet any deadlines without this part of the organization. So, before you berate or think less of this part of the organization, it doesn’t matter how many files you produce, if they don’t ship them, it means absolutely nothing.” And it was very eye opening when that actually got circulated what each of the areas do that contribute to the overall product.

Erika Lance: [00:44:19] And that’s true even in a company that, say, makes computers. If the place isn’t shipping them out correctly and the mailroom doesn’t want to do their job or they don’t care, well, it doesn’t work out. I mean, look, in the airline field, when all the mechanics go on strike, for instance, guess what? There is not a single plane flying because the pilots aren’t going to fly a plane that the mechanics haven’t done. Or if the baggage handlers say they’re not participating anymore, they’re going on strike. A baggage handler will stop the entire airline thing from going. It stops all flights from happening. And you can go, “Well, they just move the luggage around.” Well, guess what? Your plane is not taking off now because they just move the luggage around. So, it starts from the top, but has to filter to the bottom. And everybody has to understand that.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:45:07] I love that. Everybody plays a vital role. It might be a different role, but they are definitely key to the overall success of that organization.

Erika Lance: [00:45:15] Exactly.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:45:16] So, you mentioned in a previous conversation and I just wanted to share, it was just such a creative approach that for the diversity and inclusion, you have a program that you utilize where you are providing or creating opportunities for individuals. Where, maybe on paper they may not have the experience or the skills that are needed for the job. But through this program, you provide them with education and training that builds on those skills and experience. I think you mentioned something with kind of like a smart start or like a restart. Can you talk a little bit about that structure? Because I just thought it was so innovative and a great way to identify candidates that maybe would, typically, get overlooked or maybe not considered for a role.

Erika Lance: [00:46:04] Absolutely. So, I worked a lot with local high schools, helping with some of their career committees and stuff like that. And I found that a lot of times people coming out of high school, especially in underrepresented communities, they don’t always have an option. It’s not always an option to go to college. It’s not free. There’s not an option. And some don’t have the availability to do it. And they have to just start working. It’s the the snake eating its own tail. You want somebody to come into the area, but they can’t come into the area unless they have experience, but they can’t get experience until they’re let into the area.

Erika Lance: [00:46:44] And so, if you don’t go, “Okay. Wait. We have to break this cycle. This doesn’t work.” So, we have three programs that we’re doing, but the first one was called Jumpstart. And we’re taking kids that have either graduated from high school or gotten their GED that want to move into a technical type role but have no experience. And we didn’t expect them to have any work experience at all. Instead, we got references from teachers or volunteer groups they worked with or potentially religious leaders that they had that they maybe did some work with, that’s where we got our references.

Erika Lance: [00:47:23] And we’re starting from the beginning. It was supposed to be a program of six, we had seven because our recorder got very excited and hired more than six. But we were like, “Okay. Let’s do this.” So, they’re all doing really, really well. So, that’s our first program, where we’re bringing them in. They’re coming in at a slightly lower salary than our tier one tech support because we’re seeing if they can move up to that. But at the end of the program, which is within six months, is, they get to apply for one of our tech support positions. And they will get paid what our tier one tech support get paid, because we believe in pay banding for a position, not the person.

Erika Lance: [00:47:57] And the other thing they get is, if they stay with the program, we’re giving them a two year degree. They can get an AA or an AS. And we partnered with our local college to get that to happen. And it can be in whatever they want to be when they grow up. But we want to give them the opportunity to expand their life.

Erika Lance: [00:48:15] Similarly, we had a bunch of people that applied for this program that we’re doing things like trucking all their life or cashier or something. And I went, “We should have a project Restart,” which is people who have been stuck in careers that they don’t love, but they’ve just been stuck there because they don’t look like they can do anything else. And we’re going to bring them in similarly and move them through the system to give them a different type of career path if they want to. And that’s going to be in our technical area, our customer success area, or our sales area.

Erika Lance: [00:48:45] And we’re doing a project New Start, which is for people coming out of the military or first responders. Because the military – my daughter is a combat medic. She’s very fortunate. She got her degree in health care and a bachelor’s in science. But her husband, for instance, was an MP and he came out and he could go be a police officer or work in security. That’s all they trained him to do. They have friends that work in artillery. They can fire bombs and stuff like that, which is not a transferable skill, generally – unless you’re an action movie star – to the real life.

Erika Lance: [00:49:21] So, it’s an opportunity for them to, again, come into the workforce because they have valuable skills. They have a lot of stuff that they can present. They show that they can get education and they can meet with work requirements, but they walk out and go, “Okay. What do I do next?” And we feel that this is how you are able to increase diversity in your organization.

Erika Lance: [00:49:45] Because if you’re like, “I’m okay. I’ll hire a diverse college graduate,” that, unfortunately and very sadly, is not the biggest pool of diverse candidates that you’re going to get. It’s terrible that I can say that. I don’t like having to say that, but it’s true. So, we need to open it up and companies need to go, “How do I grow my talent? And how do I grow my diverse talent to move up within the organization?” Because you cannot effectively make a change in an organization unless you’re willing to go, “Where does the problem begin?”

Erika Lance: [00:50:21] And we’re also doing a lot of education initiatives in schools and partnering with schools, so that kids growing up know that there are alternative options to being a doctor, or a lawyer, or a nurse, or whatever you’re taught in school. Like, “Hi. This is cybersecurity. This is a whole field. Here are the options. This is what you can do to get into that field. Here are the steps.” Kind of like we talked about with the career path, give kids the steps so they know what to do. Because if you only go, “Well, you can go to college.” Well, if they can’t, you know, “Okay. What’s option B? Is there an option B for them?”

Jamie Gassmann: [00:51:01] Or go to college and not really quite know what to major in, and maybe get a degree in something that, when you get done, isn’t really what you want to do, which you see that happen too.

Erika Lance: [00:51:12] A lot. And a lot of people get degrees and things, that doesn’t mean you’re going to get hired. That’s a double edged sword. I had a lot of people that work for me in data entry that had business degrees and architect degrees and stuff. Because what do you do? Just because you have a business degree doesn’t mean you know how to do business stuff. Unfortunately, it doesn’t necessarily translate.

Erika Lance: [00:51:37] Some degrees are luckier, like medical. Like, you go to business school, they don’t have a practical application set like you do when you go to medical school. They make you go do the things they’re teaching you. But business doesn’t do that. They’re like, “Here’s the thing. You’ve learned the things. Now, go. Fly. Be a bird.” And, you know, there’s a lot of falling out of the nest kind of situations that happen there.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:52:03] Definitely. So, thanks for sharing that about that program, because it just sounds like such a great innovative way of kind of thinking about the hiring process from a different perspective. And taking a different approach to getting potentially some long standing employees that can grow within your organization based on just being given that opportunity.

Erika Lance: [00:52:23] Absolutely.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:52:24] So, if you were going to give one piece of advice or piece of information that you want the listeners to be left with today, what would that be?

Erika Lance: [00:52:35] I think my main piece of advice I like to tell anybody is, you need to take ten steps back and actually look at every situation from a panoramic view. Because if you’re stuck in it and you can’t really see out of it, you’re never going to find the right solution to it. And you need to encourage others to take steps back, really look at the situation, and look at how you solve it. Not on an immediate basis, but how you come up with a long term scalable solution for the problem. And you have to be willing to put the effort in to make whatever that solution you come up with occur. And that’s part of being in H.R. It’s part of being a manager. It’s part of being anything.

Erika Lance: [00:53:22] Like the Jumpstart program we talked about, for example, we had to dedicate resources to make that happen. Well then, you need to do that, and be willing to do that, and be willing to put the effort into the one side for the positivity on the other. But I think if you don’t take steps back from a situation and look at what the best results will be, and the best result for six months, a year, five years from now, you do yourself an injustice by trying to do a quick solve to a situation or saying it absolutely has to be this way or else, because very little in life has to be absolutely to a solid.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:54:01] Great advice. So, you’ve shared a lot of great information. If our listeners wanted to connect with you further, what would be the best way that you would want them to connect with you?

Erika Lance: [00:54:08] LinkedIn is a great way to connect with me. I respond to my things. Please link with me. I won’t say put a friend request, but that’s not right. Different app. But do link with me on LinkedIn, Erika Lance, E-R-I-K-A L-A-N-C-E. And I’m at KnowBe4, and you’ll see that in my profile. So, please feel free to connect with me. I love helping people. So, if you have questions or need advice on anything or want to share something successful you guys have done out there, please do that. Because I think we all learn from each other. I didn’t just think of all this stuff. A lot of it is stuff over years of seeing people do things has caused me to be able to go, “Oh, that’s how you do that correctly.”

Jamie Gassmann: [00:54:53] That’s wonderful advice and exactly why we have you on the show today, because that’s what Workplace MVP is all about, is showcasing Workplace MVPs like yourself and the great work that you do. And thank you so much for being a part of our show and letting us celebrate you and your successes that you’ve had, for sharing your stories, and all of your great advice with our listeners. We really do appreciate you. And I’m sure your organization does as well, as well as your staff. So, thank you. Thank you.

Erika Lance: [00:55:21] Thank you.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:55:21] And we also want to thank our show sponsor, R3 Continuum, for supporting the Workplace MVP podcast. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. If you have not already done so, make sure to subscribe so you get our most recent episodes and other resources. You can also follow our show on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter at Workplace MVP. If you are a workplace MVP or know someone who is, we want to know. Email us at info@workplace-mvp.com. Thank you all for joining us and have a great rest of your day.

 

Inspiring Women, Episode 9: Leadership With a Title (An Interview with Janet Smith Meeks, Part 1)

June 3, 2019 by John Ray

Janet Smith Meeks with Betty Collins, Host of “Inspiring Women”

Betty’s Show Notes

Everywhere today you see people are looking for great leadership. When you’re a leader, you can influence. You can change your world around you. You can impact people in your life and organizations. You can be part of success because of your leadership and influence. And you can use that title responsibly for yourself as well as for others.

Leadership, influence, AND the title are all one package deal.

One of the people who I love, I’ve heard speak, and read her book on leadership, is Janet Smith Meeks. She is so passionate about how we can lead. She wrote a book called Gracious Leadership. You should check it out. It’s really good. She lives it. She wants to change the world for the good. She’s a leader because she influences those around her.

And I’m am so thrilled to have interviewed her for this episode. This episode is part one of my two part interview with her.

Janet Smith Meeks, Healthcare Alignment Advisors

Janet Smith Meeks

Janet Smith Meeks has devoted nearly four decades of her professional life to the healthcare and financial services industries. As a C-suite executive and corporate director, she has vast experience in finance, strategy, operations, marketing, business development and leadership effectiveness.

Janet has served in executive roles for four nationally known healthcare systems, including Trinity Health (the second largest Catholic Healthcare system in the nation) and the prestigious Vanderbilt University Medical Center. Janet spent nine years as president of Mount Carmel St. Ann’s Hospital in Westerville, Ohio where she led the organization to peak performance through applying the key ingredients of Gracious Leadership.

As co-founder and CEO of Healthcare Alignment Advisors, Janet uses her experience to guide C-suite executives across multiple industries in strategies that are designed to optimize corporate performance within a positive work environment.

Janet is the author of Gracious Leadership: Lead Like You’ve Never Led Before.

“Inspiring Women” Podcast Series

“Inspiring Women” is THE podcast that advances women toward economic, social and political achievement. The show is hosted by Betty Collins, CPA, and presented by Brady Ware and Company. Brady Ware is committed to empowering women to go their distance in the workplace and at home. Past episodes of “Inspiring Women” can be found here.

Show Transcript

Betty : [00:00:00] Leadership, it takes more than a title. This podcast, along with a million other podcasts, is about leadership because it’s just a really hot topic. It’s something that is so needed everywhere. Leadership takes more than a title. Maybe you’re fortunate enough to have that title in your life …

Betty : [00:00:20] Everywhere today, you see people are looking for great leadership. It can be in your home, your business, nonprofits you volunteer for. It can be politically, for sure, schools, education, et cetera, et cetera. Just great leadership is needed. Great leadership, to me, it engages, and influences the followers to just develop, be better … It’s all positive. Again, you don’t have to have that title to be an effective leader, but that is for part two of this series.

Betty : [00:00:53] Are you a leader with a title? Maybe you’re striving to become that leader, and get the promotion, and the title, and all the perks/headaches that go with it. Maybe you’re frustrated, as a leader, and you’re just not getting that engagement. You’re just not influencing. Maybe you’re striving to get a promotion, and you continue to be overlooked. Maybe you’re also just looking for a good leader, someone that you can follow.

Betty : [00:01:19] I just want to take all of those scenarios, and I want to share you my insights today on leadership. I’ve led, and I’ve followed, and I’ve done both at the same time; we all have, but it’s more than that title, and that perk. When you’re a leader, you can influence. You can change your world around you. You can impact people in your life, and organizations. You can be part of success, because of your leadership, and influence, and you can use that title responsibly, for yourself, as well as others.

Betty : [00:01:49] Leadership, it gives you more than a title. It gives you a authority, it gives you that … You can lead organizations, and people. It’s guidance, it’s directions, it’s even control, which we, of course, all like. It’s about being intentional. It’s really about engagement. To me, at the end of the day, leadership is nothing more than influencing. It’s why you don’t have to have that title, but again, that’s for part two of this podcast.

Betty : [00:02:16] Think about who’s been an exceptional leader in your life – any part of it, any area of it, any age. Who led, and you followed? Who’s come into your mind right now, because I’m sure there’s people in your life that you’re thinking about? Who also was that leader with the title, who really had a negative impact, and you never want to be that person?

Betty : [00:02:40] I’ve been fortunate enough to have great leadership all around me, and I’ve experienced, I’ll call it, the dark side, as well. I’m going to start with those people we have in our lives that have influenced us, but they’re from afar, right? You’ve never met them.

Betty : [00:02:57] One of those influencers, for me, back in the young age, as I was getting out of college, was President Ronald Reagan. I never met him. We never had coffee. He never had me come to the White House. By the way, this is not a political podcast; I want you to know that … He influenced those around him, and you could see it.

Betty : [00:03:16] I recently watched a documentary of his first big meeting with international leaders. They knew his title. They knew what his job was, but they really didn’t have much to say to him. He wasn’t really respected that day. In fact, he remembers leaning over, looking at people going, “Hey, I’m Ron,” and they still just … There was no connection. There was no engagement. He certainly left there with no influence.

Betty : [00:03:42] The next time he met, the next time – again, they knew his job, and they knew his title – but it was different, because this time, he didn’t have to say who he was. He didn’t have to introduce himself. He was the focus. It was all completely different, because he had gained tremendous respect because of the success, and results he was having as the president, and it was just different,  and he was an influencer.

Betty : [00:04:10] Of course, we always like presidents, once they’re out of office, but, why did I like him? He was optimistic. He always used humor. He was respectful, but he was a driver of the agenda of the day. That agenda, for him, was conservatism, and it was the American people. He also had a lot of … He was a Conservative, but he was respected by many Liberals, and it was a very united country at that time, with a lot of success. I think of him today, and I still watch things about him … You just feel better.

Betty : [00:04:41] You all have those people in your life that you look, from a distance, and from afar, but really, what I want to focus on is who has been around me. Most of my career, of course, has been focused in business, as a CPA, and I had … I had one major job outside of accounting. I worked in food service. I was the Director of Food Service for a college campus.

Betty : [00:05:03] I worked for a man by the name of Austin Swallow. He influences me to this day. I haven’t seen him probably in 10 years. He influences me because his very core was what drove everything. That was his faith, and his ethics, and what he believed. There was never any compromise for that. He didn’t beat it on you. He didn’t shout it from the mountain top. He did none of those things. He just lived it, and you knew it was there. Family was more important to him because he always emphasized – those moments never come back.

Betty : [00:05:33] In business, we had a hard job feeding college kids food, where you had to make it for a thousand, so it was never real rewarding. When it was hard, you stayed the course. If you didn’t do your job, you owned it, and you always took whatever it is for that customer.

Betty : [00:05:46] He lost a big account, and he knew for a while that it was going to end, but he still led. He did his job, he fulfilled his obligation. He finished to the end with pride, and walked away that day, already knowing, for about 60 days, he had been fired. He never had any regrets about it. He let me fail. He did those type of things.

Betty : [00:06:07] I was in a company, where I was the only woman. There were about 30 people, totally, in the company. He made sure I developed, and had success, and I climbed the ladder there very quickly at a very young age. He valued his employees. He had a lot of loyalty because of it. He always talked to me about executive presence. He always would say, “If you want to be taken seriously, you gotta act accordingly.” Those four years of working with him, as a leader, watching him, influenced me in these last 30.

Betty : [00:06:35] I’ve also seen the dark side, but I don’t want to focus on that today. I really want to focus on the good side.  Which are you? Which do you want to be? Who is influencing you right now? Is it good? Is it positive? Who are you influencing right now? Is it good, and is it positive?

Betty : [00:06:53] Leadership, it starts with you. It absolutely starts with you. Here’s a great thing I came across. I don’t know where I found this, I just have it in my notes, and I’m not sure what I got it from, but it’s really good. “Great leaders talk about vision, and ideas. Average leaders talk about things, and small leaders talk about others.” Then, “Those who lead them talk with them, and they all join in, and they tell others.” Three very different … Great, average, and small.

Betty : [00:07:23] Take it a step further. What positive qualities of leadership do you appreciate? Are you doing that? In what ways are you a leader? Who has been the leader with the title that influenced you the most, and why? I would challenge you, after this podcast, or think about that, as you’re struggling through leading, or you’re struggling with a leader, or you want to be a better one.

Betty : [00:07:42] You got to think differently. Mindset, you’ve got to have that in all roles, and positions in your organization, or your family, or at the school board. It doesn’t matter. They’re all important, and they serve a reason. You have a mindset that thinks differently when you’re a good leader.

Betty : [00:07:58] True leaders do not create more followers. It’s kind of easier to have followers than it is to create more leaders. If you’re really good in your job, in your career, in your company, you will have it. You will have a legacy one day, because you created leaders to come behind you. If you’re fortunate enough to get at the top, then you have you have an obligation to send the elevator down. Not my statement, but it’s a good one.

Betty : [00:08:23] In the mindset of a leader, all things are possible. In the mindset of an expert, a few things are possible. I say those two sentences because, sometimes, your talents as an expert, or a technician, or a really good hair salon … You can make someone look really good. Doesn’t mean you can be a leader. Leaders, probably you’re not going to be the technical expert. In the mindset of a leader, you understand what you’re good at, and what others are good at.

Betty : [00:08:55] We all start out as an original, and a lot of times, we just become a copy. Instead of transforming, we settle for conforming, and nobody is inspired when you conform. Instead, they all become leaders that they don’t have. If you’re frustrated with what’s happening around you, it’s time for change on your part. If you think, and renew your mind, you will change the way you feel, and you will change your behavior.

Betty : [00:09:20] Here’s another thing about a great leader. They show up every day. They don’t look at the past, and say, “Look what I built.” They don’t look at the past, and go, “But I did this yesterday.” You’ve got to show up every day. The title, ‘What you did in the past as a leader,’ probably is not enough; it doesn’t sustain.

Betty : [00:09:37] Truly, if you’re not at the table, then your perspective is never going to be heard, so you’ve got to be there. Decisions are made by those who show up. You can come to the table, and you have to either eat, or you’re going to be on the menu. I want you to think about that. I’ll say it one more time, for those of you who’re slow: when you come to the table, you either eat, or you’re on the menu.

Betty : [00:09:58] Another thing you have to realize: leadership and influence is never a straight line. You’re going to go from all over, to all over, and back again. Three steps forward, and it’s two steps back, and upstairs … You’re going to do all those different ways. It’s like that famous guy, Forrest Gump. “Life is like a box of chocolates.” You never know what you’re going to be, and who you’re going to affect as a leader. You’re never going to know what the circumstance is. You’re never going to control all that. Showing up every day is really important, and going forward is never- is never easier, sometimes, and going bigger is never easier, most of the time, right?

Betty : [00:10:35] Ways that you can lead, and you can influence … You have the title. I would tell you to use it wisely. You’re lucky enough that you have it. You’ve got to leverage your super power, which is you. I leverage my uniqueness. I am not your average CPA type of a person. I’m more of a personal person. I’m more of a common sense … I am more of a layman terms, let’s get it on the table. I use that. Please do not misunderstand me. Do not let your uniqueness be an excuse for you to act inappropriately, or drive people crazy. Use it so that you can influence.

Betty : [00:11:16] Sometimes, you just got to … As a leader, if you’re going to really lead and influence, you’ve got to invest your time differently. Do you know that there are 1,440 minutes in a day, and there are 10,080 of them in a week? You got to look at your time as an absolute asset, not a liability. People do not email or call me after 5:00, because I don’t pick up, and I don’t answer, unless it’s really, really crucial. It’s very few and far between.

Betty : [00:11:43] I used to be in business with somebody, who had a building, where we had our practice there. He would get a little frustrated with me not being available after hours. I said, “Unless the building is burning down … Oh, wait, you own the building …” You’ve got to set that time. Your time is an asset.

Betty : [00:12:01] You’ve got to look at the way you lead, and influence. A lot of times, people don’t want to let go. Just because you work harder, and you work, and you work doesn’t mean you will lead, and influence. You’ll just be tired. Time is really important. You’ve got to cultivate some resilience within yourself, and within your people, but that’s an entire podcast I wish I had time for.

Betty : [00:12:25] Then, you’ve got to be creative. You’ve got to have some unscheduled time, when you lead, because sometimes, you just got to sit back. I do that on my motorcycle. I do that at the spa. I get those times where I truly, truly, truly step back. Again, leadership starts with you. It’s a mindset that you have to really, really cultivate, and you’ve got to show up every day.

Betty : [00:12:47] Most importantly, lead responsibly with your title, so that those results will influence, and you’ll have engagement that will fulfill your role as that leader. The success of who you are leading is counting on you to do that. I have about 150 people that count on me as a shareholder, and a leader in my company.

Betty : [00:13:08] Today, leadership, influence, and the title – they all come together. One of the people that I love, that I’ve heard talk about, and I’ve read her book on leadership is Janet Meeks. She is so passionate about how we can lead. She wrote a book called, “Gracious Leadership.” You should check it out. It’s really good. She lives it. She wants to change the world for the good. She’s a leader, because she influences those around her, and I’m going to interview her next, so stay tuned.

Betty : [00:13:39] Today, we’ve been talking about leadership with a title. Of course, the next podcast coming will be Leadership Without a Title. Either way you can lead, and it’s my privilege today to have someone who truly is an amazing leader.

Betty : [00:13:56] Janet Smith Meeks has devoted nearly four decades of her professional life to healthcare, and financial-services industries. She is an amazing executive, and a director, and she wrote a really, really great book, “Gracious Leadership: Lead Like You’ve Never Led Before.” I’ve read this book, and it really is just impactful, with such simple things. It’s amazing what the power of those simple things can create in leadership.

Betty: [00:14:24] I’m just so thrilled to have you here today, Janet. We’re going to just talk a little bit about leadership from your perspective. As you know the podcast, I talk about Ronald Reagan being one of my favorite leaders in my lifetime. I would like you to share your thoughts about Reagan, and any particular leadership attributes he possessed that you believe are more important for today’s leaders.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:14:50] Thank you so much, Betty, for the opportunity to be with you today. It’s so ironic that Ronald Reagan is also one of my favorite leaders, over the course of time. I think Reagan was so impactful, and so memorable because he was known to be the Great Communicator. I believe that the people of America, especially at that time, and now, also, are clamoring for a glimpse of what optimistic leadership looks like.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:15:21] Reagan frankly said that he was not necessarily a great communicator, but he had the opportunity to communicate great things. In fact, in his campaign for presidency in 1980, there were five simple words that he called his platform – family, work, neighborhoods, freedom, and peace. He was just such an optimistic person that people wanted to follow him. They wanted to hear what he had to say.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:15:54] I’ll share one funny story about Reagan. In 1981, when he was shot, he tried to walk into the hospital, and his feet buckled, as he was unable to take himself into the facility. He was aided by being put on a gurney, and then was taken into surgery. Quoting Churchill, Reagan said that, “There’s nothing so exhilarated as to be shot at without effect.”

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:16:21] Then, to his wife, he said, “Honey, I’m so sorry. I forgot to duck.” To the doctors, he said, “I just hope you’re Republicans,” to which one of the doctors replied, “Today, Mr. President, we’re all Republicans,” which I think spoke to the unity that this man with his optimism, and his wonderful ability to use humor made him someone that we all wanted to follow.

Betty: [00:16:46] Absolutely. Those are reasons, too, I really respected him, and looked up to him. Even when you talk in your book – it’s titled “Gracious Leadership” – that does not mean you’re nice all the time, and roll over. Reagan could be as tough as he could be as loving, and led. It all mixes together, but he had those skills, for sure.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:17:08] You’re right, Betty, and I think sometimes people will believe that you have to be a tough leader, or you’re a kind, soft leader, but just as you said, you can be both. You can be tough, and kind; you can be compassionate, and require accountability, and in so doing, you show respect.

Betty: [00:17:24] Right. Sometimes, we learn a lot about leadership outside of our workplace. We only think leadership is in the workplace. Would you share an individual who impacted your leadership convictions, and some lessons that you learned from that person?

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:17:42] Two people come to my mind. One would be my high school basketball coach. Listen, if this coach said, “Jump off the bridge,” I would have said, “Yes, sir, what side?” He encouraged us, and expected us to be our very best. As well as we may have played, he always wanted more. It’s probably not a surprise that, our senior year, we went 24-0 before we ever lost a game.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:18:07] What I learned from him is that you can encourage people to give their best without screaming at them. He taught us the importance of having a game plan, so that we all were united to work on behalf of the greater good. He all taught us the importance of continuous self-improvement, as we would shoot that one hundredth free shot of the day, perhaps, or run those terribly tiring drills, where we’d have to run the lines of the basketball court.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:18:37] The other person who comes to my mind is my father. I talk about this quite a bit in “Gracious Leadership,” but my dad was a unique individual; an attorney who, in the 1960s, in the heart of Mississippi, found it to be his calling to advocate for equal rights for all people. He actually was the attorney who told the local school board that the schools had to be integrated, when the federal mandate was issued.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:19:09] My dad actually was one of a couple of people who escorted the first black child, African-American, Debra Lewis safely to her desk at Carthage Elementary School. He found himself to have become an enemy target of the KKK. They threatened his life. They threatened the lives of my brother, my mother, and myself, and he had to meet regularly with the FBI.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:19:32] Here’s the most important lesson he taught my brother, and me, two lessons. First of all, every person, regardless of how they are different from us, every person is supposed to be respected. Secondly, he taught us that you always, as a leader, do what is right, even and especially when it’s not popular, and regardless of the cost. I will forever be grateful for those important lessons of leadership that I learned both from my dad, and from my coach.

Betty: [00:20:03] Thank you so much for sharing such a personal story about your father. That was just- that was just great. Why don’t you share with us a little about the most impactful leader from within the workplace, and the lessons that you learned from that individual?

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:20:22] Betty, my favorite professional mentor ever is a gentleman whose name is Aubrey Patterson. He retired several years ago, as the chairman of the board, and the chief executive officer of BancorpSouth, a financial conglomerate that transcends eight states in the southeastern part of our nation.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:20:39] I was a management trainee; green management trainee, right after having finished my MBA program at Ole Miss, and had the good fortune of being assigned to work for Mr. Patterson. From the very beginning, he put me in situations where clearly I had never been before.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:20:58] He taught me how to become comfortable being uncomfortable. He gave me stretch assignments. He gave me a little guidance, and then he gave me free rein to go figure it out. Then, I would bring back the work product to him; he could give me some hints about how to improve it, always in a kind spirit. Then, he would assign me the next big stretch assignment.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:21:22] It was really a continuous learning journey, and it’s one that really helped to mold, and shape my leadership philosophies, because I made it my practice to identify high-potential employees, and to give them stretch assignments, so they could start building more and more confidence, as they broadened their skill sets.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:21:42] The other thing about Mr. Patterson … This man is absolutely brilliant; so highly well-regarded. He’s won so many incredible awards, including having served as the chairman of the American Bankers Association, several years ago.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:21:57] He was so compassionate. He was the first one from our bank to show up at the hospital, when I was experiencing a significant health concern related to my first baby. After I left the bank, and went to work for the medical center, Mr. Patterson was the first one always to congratulate me on the birth of my second, and third babies. To have a brilliant business man, who is so, savvy, so effective, so results-oriented, but who also has a kind heart, and he’s not afraid to share that heart by showing his employees how much he cares about them, that stuck with me.

Betty: [00:22:46] Hopefully, Janet, we all have a Mr. Patterson in our career at some point, and take it a step further. We, then, will make sure that we are that Mr. Patterson to someone; make sure that it goes on, because that’s the leadership that people need, in leadership, that they need to see demonstrated in front of them.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:23:04] You know, Betty, one other comment I have to tell you. When I was writing “Gracious Leadership,” and clearly Mr. Patterson is one of the four professional mentors whom I highlight within the book, it gave me such great joy to reach out to him, and to tell him what his leadership had meant to me, and that I wanted to showcase that leadership within this book that aspiring leaders would be reading, hopefully, for generations to come; to help him see the incredible ripple effect that his leadership has had, and will have for generations to follow.

Betty: [00:23:41] Wonderful. Now, we’ve talked about the good side, so we probably need to talk about the bad, or the dark side, as I call it. There are those leaders out there that probably shouldn’t be leaders, or they’re influencers, and probably are influencing in a negative way.

Betty: [00:23:57] Can you tell us a little bit about that person, or that leader in your life; somebody that just really had an impact, negatively, but probably you used it for the better of what you’re not going to be, right? If you can talk about that?

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:24:13] You’re right, Betty. We certainly learn how to lead from those positive mentors, and we learn how not to lead from those who don’t quite reach the bar. Betty, two people come to my mind. Interestingly, both of them possess the same leadership liability. Each of them was a bully.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:24:33] I had been recruited to a particular organization, and, of course, during the interview process, everything’s beautiful, all is cool. This is a little piece of heaven. Not so much, once I arrived on the job, and realized that, although this was not an individual to whom I reported directly, I had a close working relationship with the individual.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:24:58] That person reigned with fear, and terror. It was so pervasive that employees, and leaders throughout the organization literally would fly under the radar for fear that they might get their heads “lopped off.” That was not a culture where I felt at home. To be candid with you, I jokingly tell people I stayed there two years, three months, four days, two hours, and 22 minutes. In other words, it was not a place where I felt that I was going to be able to be all that I was created to be, so I made a conscious decision to leave, when another opportunity presented.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:25:42] Now, the other example was an individual to whom I reported. This person came into the organization, and was a bully from day one. It was always a little bit scary when I would look at the phone in my office, and see the individual’s cellphone number pop up. I never knew if it was going to be a pleasant conversation, or one that was not so much.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:26:08] I began to study this individual, and to try to determine what was it that caused the person to have an eruption. There was one time that there was a very unpleasant conversation, and I thought to myself, “I don’t have to put up with this. I’ll leave.” Then, frankly, I did some more reflection and decided I love what I do. I love the people with whom I work. I feel I’m called to serve in this organization. I’ve got to figure out how to work with this person.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:26:43] I did study the individual’s habits, and what I’ve figured out is that if anyone ever was tentative in how they replied to this individual’s questions during presentations, that’s when the individual was like a shark going in for the strike.  The lesson I took away from that is that, although I always prided myself on being very well-prepared, I needed to double down, and be more prepared than I had ever been.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:27:12] Furthermore, I needed to try to anticipate the questions the person might ask me, and then answer those questions before the individual had a chance to pose them. Then, when the individual would push back on me, I was armed with facts, and could respectfully push back, which gave the individual boundaries. Thankfully over the course of time, this person changed, at least in the relationship with me, changed from being a bully to actually being an advocate, and a cheerleader for the work that I was doing.

Betty: [00:27:44] Interesting two choices. You chose to leave, because sometimes, that’s what you do. It’s not worth it. Then, secondly, you chose to stay because it mattered. That’s great. We’re going to end today with just one quick, quick thing. “Gracious Leadership” is your book; wonderful book, I’ve read it. Why the word  ‘gracious?’

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:28:03] When I had retired from my full-time role as president of St. Anne’s Hospital in the summer of 2015, I became very contemplative about different leadership lessons I had learned throughout my life – either from my parents, from my mentors, or from my own professional journey. From time to time, I would jot down my thoughts about each of those particular leadership attributes.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:28:25] Then, in early 2016, I was asked by [00:28:29] Weld [00:28:30] and by the Ross Leadership Institute if I would make a presentation on a leadership topic of my choice. I pulled out my file; I spread out that list of leadership attributes, which, by that time, had grown to around a dozen. Honestly, as I looked at the words on those pieces of paper, the word ‘gracious’ came to my mind.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:28:51] I know that sometimes people may think “Gracious Leadership” sounds like it’s soft stuff. There’s a whole chapter in the book dedicated to refute that proposition. You can be kind, and respectful, and take your team to peak performance.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:29:08] Let me give you an example. One of the kindest things a leader may ever do is to tell an employee who is not a good fit in the organization that it’s better for them to leave, and to share that information with them in a kind way, so that they will not have ill feelings towards you, but they will understand that, frankly, you’re watching out for the best interests of the organization, and for them.

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:29:30] Gracious was a word that I thought was appropriate, also, given the state of affairs throughout our country in 2016-17-18, and even now. We know that 30 percent of leaders are toxic, and that a recent Gallup survey has shown that,  around the world, we lose $7 trillion per year in lost productivity attributed to employee disengagement. Most of the time, that comes from having had a bad boss.

Betty: [00:30:04] Well, I cannot thank you enough for taking time today to be here. I would challenge anyone who is listening today buy the book, “Gracious Leadership.” Also, you can find Janet; she has a website. Can you give us your information on that?

Janet Smith Meeks: [00:30:18] It’s www.graciousleadershipbook.com, and by all means, visit the website, and scroll down to the bottom of any page, and join in the free leadership blog. The Gracious Leadership blog that I send out about once a month.

Betty: [00:30:37] It’s excellent. Again, thank you. Leader with the title, leader without a title – either way you can lead.

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