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Raymond (RJ) Grimshow with ABLE Leadership

October 20, 2025 by angishields

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Houston Business Radio
Raymond (RJ) Grimshow with ABLE Leadership
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RJ-GrimshawRaymond (RJ) Grimshaw is the Founder of ABLE Leadership and former CEO of UniFi Equipment Finance, where he scaled the company from $14M to $250M. A recognized expert in intrapreneurship and business growth,

RJ now mentors leaders on how to think like owners and use AI responsibly through his platform, The AI CEO. With decades of experience and a certification in Financial AI, RJ continues to shape the future of leadership with clarity, strategy, and impact. BestTheAILogo-RJGrimshaw

He holds financial AI certification from Upstart and continues to write, teach, and serve the industry with a steady hand and clear voice.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rjgrimshaw/
Website: http://www.theaiceo.ai

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Houston, Texas. It’s time for Houston Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Trisha Stetzel: Hello, Houston. Trisha Stetzel here bringing you another episode of Houston Business Radio. Today’s guest is RJ Grimshow, founder of ABLE Leadership and the AI CEO, a recognized authority on entrepreneurship. We’re going to talk more about that in a little bit. And business growth. Rj spent a decade as CEO of Unify Equipment Finance, where he scaled the company from 14 million to 250 million by focusing on execution, team development and long term value. Now, through his leadership programs and AI expertise, he mentors Towards executives that think like owners, and to leverage artificial intelligence responsibly to scale what matters. With a financial AI certification and years of hands on leadership success, RJ brings a clear voice and practical strategies to the future of leadership. Rj, welcome to the show.

RJ Grimshow: Wow, thank you for that introduction. Uh, I better compliment my bio writer, which is ChatGPT in regards to that. And uh, makes me sound, uh, you know, I’ve been blessed enough to be surrounded by amazing people, uh, in every team I’ve worked with, which is driven all the success that I’ve been able to be blessed with. Um, and it doesn’t stop. I mean, we’re in a time right now that a lot of business owners are facing either excitement, uh, in terms of what the future looks like or uncertainty. So, um, I feel it’s a good time for, you know, people like what you do and the people you surround yourself with. And what we’re trying to do here at Able Leadership, it’s much needed, um, for the for the society that we all, we all live in.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. So you want to give me a little bit of background on RJ? Who are you as a human being? And then let’s jump into able leadership.

RJ Grimshow: Sure. I was fortunate enough to be born into, um, somewhat entitled into a family of entrepreneurs. My dad owned his own company. My grandparents on both sides of the family. My grandfather owned a soda distributorship in Massachusetts. My grandmother on the other side had many florist stores. My uncle was an optician. He owned three locations, and this was back in the 70s and 80s before you saw, you know, mass consolidation. So he was a leader in that. And I started my first company at 23. Uh, crazy enough, my dad actually bankrolled myself and my brother into a bar restaurant, which, looking back. Oh, wow. Dad, I don’t know what you were thinking putting a 23 year old in a bar. But the good news I was married because I was actually in the military, in the Air Force, which was the best thing that ever happened to me. Uh, because the Air Force, you know, really taught me discipline, teamwork, how to serve your country, why we serve our country. And it really laid a foundation for me to enter into or entrepreneurship or entrepreneurship. See, I’m already confusing the two. Trisha. Um, and then by the age of 30, I fell into corporate America by accident. Unfortunately, my dad died at 61 from a massive heart attack. I turned 30, I already had two boys at the time. I started young, and I had a hard decision to make. Either. Do I want to go into a safety net of corporate America with benefits and things of that nature, or do I want to continue on this entrepreneurial path that we’ve been successful doing? And I made the decision, uh, to go into corporate America, and that’s where I found the term entrepreneurship.

RJ Grimshow: Uh, I started an individual contributor and 15 years later worked my way up again, being surrounded by a lot of great people. Lucky at the right time, at the right place, and also being extremely proactive. So many. Um, I don’t want to sound, um. We all control our destiny. We all control our careers. It doesn’t matter if you’re in corporate America or working for yourself. And so many people forget that, that we are in control of our future and where we want to go might not be a straight line, but I knew I wanted to get to become a CEO. I from the day that, you know, high school, I would tell people, what are you going to do? I’m going to be a CEO. I don’t know what, I don’t know where, I don’t know what kind of organization, but I know that I want to, uh, and it wasn’t about the title, it was more about leadership. And, uh, in regards to that, today is a somewhat of a special day for my family. Um, over the last three weeks, both my sons, uh, Tyler, who’s 31, and Trent, who’s 26, both have accepted an assistant coaching positions at the college level, the collegiate level.

RJ Grimshow: Both of them played college hockey. But it’s crazy to think within three weeks of both of them being offered full time assistant coaching positions at the college level one in Minot, North Dakota, and the other one in Middlebury, Vermont. So leadership has always been part of, you know, our core. Beliefs and standards. And it doesn’t come down to title. It’s just the way that you interact with other people. And it starts with your interpersonal in terms of leading yourself. So sorry for the long winded answer on who is RJ, but kind of gives you a backstop. And then my other passion is just business. I love the art of business. I love the science of business. I love just just taking the macro view of a business. The E-myth is a fabulous book that every entrepreneur should have to read of working on your business, not in your business, because we’re all guilty of that. At, and I just love taking a step back and working with business owners to understand and try and see around the corner before they can. Sometimes I’m right, sometimes I’m wrong. But that’s the fun of it. And the art of it is making that educated decision of what the future might look like. And that’s right. Now is a critical time. Um, a lot of those decisions.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. So, RJ, I you didn’t talk specifically or use the word mindset, but I heard you say, uh, being in the right place at the right time. And your boys, um, Tyler and Trent taking on those leadership responsibilities, just something about them. And I think the energy and the mindset that you put out there is so important. So that’s my perspective. What’s your perspective on the energy and the mindset that we carry around with us, and how it correlates to good or bad leadership?

RJ Grimshow: Yeah. I um, everything is around energy. You know, I’m a big Pete Carroll fan. Uh, who’s now the head coach of the Las Vegas Raiders. And and Pete is a high energy. And when I used to coach youth hockey back in 20, I’m going to date myself here. I think it was 2010. Maybe his book came out, uh, compete. Uh, and I had my coaching staff at that read. It wasn’t even corporate America. It was a coaching staff. We’re coaching 15 year olds. But my point being, energy, it all starts with energy around leadership. And energy isn’t about being the loudest or the rah rah, but it’s the energy and the passion that you bring to the task at hand in terms of who you’re leading or what you’re leading. And more importantly, focus on the people within the team and the organization. Relationships are everything now, um, and I learned the hard way. I was at times transactional over my career. I’m not going to you have to be self-aware in order to improve. Um, but the world that we live in now, today, The meaningful, fruitful relationships that will give you more than the transaction is when you form that relationship with. I don’t even want to say like minded people because the world that we live in today, you have to understand everyone’s point of view and then make a conscious decision if it fits into what you’re trying to build within the ecosystem of your business, if that makes sense.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. No, I appreciate that. So from the mindset has to be straight. You have always known what it is that you wanted to do. You’ve taken unify equipment finance from 14 million to 250 million. Besides having the right energy and mindset, what are the other key leadership decisions and practices that really made that transformation possible?

RJ Grimshow: The true growth really came when we built out our management team. Um, and what I mean by that is we grew from 13 to 30 6 to 70, and at that 70 plateau range is really where we made some great investments in bringing in key individuals into the organization and allowing them to do leverage their superpower within the discipline and the organization. So what I mean by that is, in our world, you have, you know, operations. So a real strong CEO that’s really focused on processes and understanding processes and the ins and the outs. A credit portfolio manager that understands their their role, customer service, the key thing, and this is a great segue though into that is the term entrepreneurship. I started learning and teaching around that topic back in 2010, 2011. And there’s characteristics that you can look for in individuals when you’re hiring them or bringing them into your organization, that when you identify these individuals, you know that they’re going to have discretionary effort because they are wired a certain way. And most entrepreneurs are very resourceful. They’re life learners. They love learning new things, which means that they’re going to stretch themselves. They’re very resourceful, so they can figure out influence things without, uh, the capital per se, and or the direct line of hierarchy of leadership in the organization.

RJ Grimshow: But they can influence people. And as soon as we had those that those team members in place, as well as the culture of idea sharing, the whole idea of entrepreneurship is 75% of your front line workers. Your employees have ideas and best practices to make your company better. However, as business owners and leaders, we don’t provide the proper vehicle for them to share those ideas and be rewarded for sharing those ideas. So when you’re able to formulate that and it starts at the top in terms of your communication as a leadership team that we want ideas. It fosters everyone feeling they own a piece of the organization and the processes and their voices are being heard, which today is so critical for people. People just want to be heard. They want to feel valued. They want to feel they’re part of something bigger than just showing up and going through the motions. And people you can attract higher caliber talent, people. And guess what? It’s not about pay. Pay is important, but it’s more about feeling part of a community and part of a team that their personal beliefs are aligned with the company’s beliefs. And that’s critical for any entrepreneur.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so if you guys didn’t catch it, we’re talking about intra preneurs, which are these growth minded leaders inside of a bigger business, right. Yesterday when you and I had a conversation, I was very interested in that. You want to dig around in that just a little bit further, RJ? Sure.

RJ Grimshow: Yeah. So an entrepreneur is a individual that works in the confines of an organization but has the mindset of the entrepreneur. I did not know what that was, but I went into corporate America as a 30 year old, just thinking the same way that I did the last ten years of owning a business. Also, then taking the discipline from the military, from the Air Force before that, and just thought that was the normal, just the normal way of behaving in terms of corporate America. You figure out ways how to do things, and that’s the way I was brought up. So I was blessed, fortunate enough. And it starts as an individual contributor in sales. And that’s what I was in. So rookie of the year, top salesperson, top salesperson. And then all of a sudden you can it leads into management. Unfortunately corporate America that’s the normal path sometimes is they take we take high achievers and we put them into leadership roles. But I knew at that time that’s what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a manager, a leader, a coach. I’ve you know, I grew up again in that family and I saw that. So it was just naturally in me. But then I found I read a book by Tom Peters who’s a brilliant, brilliant gentleman who wrote a lot of books in the 80s and 90s around leadership.

RJ Grimshow: And that was when I was introduced to the term entrepreneurship. And when entrepreneurs can self-identify as an entrepreneur, you see their confidence level go up tremendously, and they understand what they’re doing and the value that they’re bringing the organization. So they lean into it. And that’s what I did. And the beautiful thing about being an entrepreneur, I like to expand on right now, if you’re listening to this, uh, or watching on YouTube and you’re debating on going into business on your own, but you’re in corporate America right now and you don’t want to give up the safety net of corporate America, and probably is a wise choice right now in the economy we work in and the world. Go find the job that is similar to what you want to start in your business and be paid to learn how to run that type of organization. I’ve had people push back and say, isn’t that stealing from the business owner when you when you are going there just to learn and then maybe go start your own. Know what I said was go add value. Learn we’re not stealing anything if it’s proprietary. No, we don’t take that. But learn the behaviors and learn what the day in the life of. Before you have to write a check, okay. To start that business, to ensure that you like it.

RJ Grimshow: And guess what? You might like the company end up staying there and becoming an entrepreneur there without writing the check, and have amazing success. Because entrepreneurs will have success in their roles. And their compensation, of course, will be in correlation to that success because they’re bringing higher value to the organization, which at the end of the day is all around revenue. It’s about bottom line revenue. Um, so that that’s why entrepreneurship, we look at organizations and we we identify team members as really functional, which is 80% of everyone that shows up within an organization, 20% are vital. Your intrapreneurs are your vital you. You don’t want all vital employees, because that means that no one’s focused on the day to day of running the business, the functional, because they’re just as important. But you want the vital who are always looking and striving and looking at everything within the organization. They understand the inputs and outputs, and they naturally do this on their own. A leader isn’t telling them, hey, go learn this, go learn that. And I have a story to exemplify this or example of this at Unifi. I had a young program manager that identified as an entrepreneur multiple degrees sports Athletics. He he had it all. I mean, just well rounded but more importantly, energy that we talk about before he had a lot of energy, passion, energy of becoming a better version of himself.

RJ Grimshow: He came to me and said, hey, RJ, I believe that we need an online portal for our clients to make payments. At that time, this was 2014 and we’re just really taking off, and my focus was on other areas. And I said to him, I said, well, Tyler, I believe I’m not sure I haven’t done enough research. We don’t have anything in the budget allocated for that this year. It was right right around August time frame. I said, but if you want to take and run with this and keep, you know, you still have to know what you still have to deliver on your objectives, your other objectives. But if you want to take this in your spare time and push this along, I’m all for it. I’m a huge proponent of this, and this was really before we started the whole what I call the EOS entrepreneur operating system within Unifi. So this was early on, one of our first use cases, PaTrisha, within four months. And I think our cost, the capital outlay was maybe $3,000. He had an online portal built out leveraging our IT department, leveraging an outside service provider. And now Unifi process is close to a quarter million dollars a month of monthly payments for our customers.

Trisha Stetzel: Wow.

RJ Grimshow: You just had to allow them the opportunity to say, I’m focused up here working out. Not that I’m more important, but I’m I’m trying to do direction and things of that nature, and you’re tactical. And if you can drive this forward without the resources you’re going to influence and things of that nature, then let’s do it. And he was successful doing it. Now here’s the downside of an entrepreneur. If there’s one negative. If you can’t fulfill the entrepreneur’s curiosity of what’s next for them in the organization, unfortunately they’ll leave. And Tyler ended up leaving. I could not fulfill that. But I’m okay with that because at at that time, um, he wanted more. He also was an attorney by trade.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay.

RJ Grimshow: So he wanted to follow that. And that’s what he does now. He practices law.

Trisha Stetzel: That’s amazing. So for those of you who are listening, who are on the edge, because I know there are a lot of you about wanting to open your own business and get away from corporate. There are actually ways to embrace that entrepreneurial spirit that you have inside of the position that you hold today, which is intrapreneurship. If you’re in the right space, if you’re in the right space, and you can also help others be in that entrepreneur mindset if you’re still in, um, bigger businesses, right? Or you can help them.

RJ Grimshow: I love to expand on this, too, Trisha. Uh, yeah. Let’s go. Now, there’s a lot of people, and I know this is a business focused podcast, but in the same respect, you you have a lot of high achievers, and maybe they’ve been downsized recently. Maybe they’ve been, you know, maybe they’re just not happy. And they had enough. And they said, I can’t take this anymore. You know, there’s really this is just our opinion. There’s a couple of things that you could be doing as you go enter into the job market. Or if you’ve been frustrated by trying to be in the job market. Take some time today or when you’re listening to this, learn around the topic of entrepreneurship. You can Google it. There’s all kinds of papers, YouTube videos, things of that nature. And it’s about mindset. Add that to your resume that you have you’ve identified. Now if you’re not, if you don’t identify as an entrepreneur in terms of the characteristics, don’t list yourself as an entrepreneur mindset. But you’d be surprised if you added that to your resume. Okay, your likelihood of an interview will go up tremendously. However, you’re going to have to talk around that topic and give examples of that when you identify during your during your interview. The second thing. And I and and you, you mentioned this earlier, is AI. Focus on learning how to prompt how to drive the LMS. And you can reach out to me at RJ, at RJ Grimshow Comm. I can send you an ebook that shows you how to prompt and then add that to your resume.

RJ Grimshow: And there’s several free classes on LinkedIn, on several other, you know, YouTube things of that nature, and start learning around how to leverage AI. Just subtly learn how to prompt learn the differences between ChatGPT Claude Gemini just from a high level. Again, you’re going to take your resume and it’s going to go up a notch because you are leaning into what the future looks like and understanding it. I gave this advice to a young girl that just graduated college. I said, what are you doing with are you dabbling with AI? She goes, oh no, I, I’m not doing anything with it, which is normal. People are busy with their life. I said, and she was looking for a marketing job. I said, hey, I would I would press you tomorrow as a Sunday, on Monday to take a couple hours. And this is youRJob now because you don’t have a job. This is youRJob. You’re going to study AI for a couple hours. I can send you some videos and then do exactly what I said to do. List it on your entrepreneurship. Because she was an entrepreneur. Two weeks later she had a job, full time job, marketing department, dream job. Just subtle changes. Now, I don’t know if it was that or not, but in the same respect, it makes me feel good. And and at the end of the day, she’s fully gainfully employed and and is extremely happy. So my point being, you have to think a little bit different in the world that we live in today.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, I do want to tackle and go a little bit deeper in the AI space. But first let’s talk about able leadership. So RJ, what is it that you deliver under able leadership.

RJ Grimshow: So able is a framework that we leverage enable stands for analyze, build, leverage execute. And it’s a continuous circle. So if you’ve heard of EOS. Gino Wickman traction everything’s a there’s a lot of frameworks out there. And I would recommend that any entrepreneur have some type of framework. When you’re running your organization, which is your it’s really your operating system. I mentioned entrepreneur operating system either earlier EOS, which is not the Apple EOS. That’s why I do not use that, of course, because it’s trademarked things of that nature, but it’s an operating system that leverages able. And when I say able, again, if there’s an idea, we’re going to analyze the idea or if it’s an issue, we’re going to analyze it, and then we’re going to make a decision to build around that, to fix it, we’re going to leverage the process and then we’re going to execute. And that’s a continuous life cycle of every process within any organization. And it’s a mindset that plays into your abling the team members to do theiRJob, to make the ecosystem and the culture within the organization high achieving. And if you’re always analyzing from an able mindset perspective, it just naturally happens. It’s a muscle that you work that just naturally happens over time because intrapreneurship is just not an initiative. It’s an operating system and mindset, one for the individual in the company and two for the company overall. And now you layer on AI as a resource with a model to do deep research and expedite and speed things up for individuals. And you’re an entrepreneur. Game over. I mean, it’s it’s it’s a magic, powerful combination of human element because at the end of the day, AI is as good as the human that is driving it. Simple as that.

Trisha Stetzel: Absolutely. All right. So then let’s dive into the AI CEO. I mentioned it a little bit earlier and you just started talking about you didn’t say the intersection between humans and AI, but there is right where the two come together. So let’s talk a little bit more about the AI CEO and what that looks like from a responsible use of AI.

RJ Grimshow: Yeah. Great question. And you know, you mentioned earlier, you know, AI expert or guru I’m far from that. I my buddies, you know, tease me all the time. I said no, I said the reason why I went in, really why I started leaning into AI is because I know as a business leader, you do not have the time to drink out of a fire hose and the information just gets faster and faster and faster. So if I could go and learn. Learned. Not as a data scientist, but learn from a business operations perspective and take that knowledge and then share it with my clients. Okay, that’s my goal is to be your ears and vetting opportunities and having cutting through the noise to say no, this is where we want to go. Or have you thought about this or have you thought about that? Because where companies are getting in trouble right now with AI, when I say in trouble, it’s not delivering. What they expected is from a foundation perspective. If you are a poorly run business before, AI is not going to fix you. If anything, it’s probably going to hurt you because you’re hoping that it’s going to do things that it can’t do. And if you’re a well run business before with solid mission, vision, values, operating system, everything that goes into a strong business, those are the organizations who are already using AI. They’ve been using AI, and you can use it in different capacities, either from automation to content to ideation to, um, you know, reviewing of data to manual, you know, just manual, um, tasks that you’re doing in your organization. Those companies are using it because they had the foundation built.

Speaker4: Mhm. Mhm.

RJ Grimshow: And to take a step back I talk a lot around strategy. And and there’s really we’re great planners. I’m guilty of it. I can plan like there’s no tomorrow. I mean I can, I can list and cross off and do everything. That’s not strategy. Strategy when you’re having a true strategic conversation as a team or an individual, if you’re strategically thinking you’re going, you will feel if you’re doing it right, nervous anxiety. Because now you’re talking about the future of Blue Ocean and trying to lay out a strategy of using tools that you might not know about today, but you know they’re going to be delivered in the future. So what I how I coach and consult our clients is everything starts with the foundation and we’re going to go backwards before we go forward. And it’s going to be uncomfortable because there’s going to be a lot of questions asked, a lot of evaluations, and really getting to the crutch of what you do and how you do it. But as soon as you I have a buddy that he he wrote a book, Burn the ships. You know, he burnt his down and built it back up. And so many entrepreneurs do do that. I’m not saying burn it down. Let’s take what you have and enhance it now by layering, taking the foundation and now layering on where we can leverage AI. Is it automation? Is it data? Where can we leverage it and then provide you the right tools? Either self-built because a lot of these tools can be built now very inexpensively with some some knowledge and education? Or do we just, you know, um, bolt on to Salesforce and Copilot, Microsoft Copilot and the big manufacturers are already delivering AI to us already.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, there’s a big difference between planning and strategy. I’m so glad that you brought that up. I know it was something we talked about yesterday and didn’t tackle here, so thank you for circling us back to that. So as we finish up our conversation today, my last ask is if you could leave the listeners today with one piece of advice on how to adopt that entrepreneurial mindset in their own careers or their businesses. What would it be?

RJ Grimshow: Be proud of who you are. You. You’re most likely the person in the organization asking why a lot of questions. You’re that you’re that doer that just is going to roll up your sleeves and get things done. But also you have that secret power of strategic processing, too, because you understand the ins and outs of every process. So first self-identify and then just start listening to videos around entrepreneurship. A lot of it’s ideation and new products that I focus more on the ideation around how we improve our current business. Then we focus on ideation and new products. Like I gave you example before earlier of Tyler. Maybe that wasn’t a product, but it really was an investment towards a product per se. So there’s two. And if you identify as an entrepreneur. Leverage that and be confident of who you are and lean into it and be proud of it and tell people and educate other individuals. Because if we can get entrepreneurs that are self-identifying, we’re only going to make corporate America or America or businesses better. Okay. And I’m all about the small person. No disrespect. If you work for a big company. Been there, done that. I’m now about to I want to help the SMEs and the my definition of SMEs is a company with 20 or less employees. You know, if they’re in the community, they’re they’re making meaningful strides of helping the community. They probably look at a bank at a local community bank. They’re active. Those are the organizations that I love helping. And I guarantee Trisha, probably you’re the same exact way. You know, and again, I’m not knocking big companies. They serve a purpose. But this country was built on businesses like my dad, my grandfather, my grandmother. And we need to bring those back and provide them the proper tools to be successful.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. This has been such a great conversation, RJ. I appreciate your time so much. Would you please give your contact information for those who want to learn more, oRJust reach out and have a connection with you?

RJ Grimshow: Sure. We have all kinds of resources at the AI, AI, the AI, CEO, AI. We have an ebook. We have a prompting guide. We have some agents that we’ve developed on there. You can start at least looking at at them from around custom agents. Uh, and my contact information is on that website. I’m on YouTube talking about entrepreneurship. You can just Google RJ Grimshow and you’ll, you know, a lot of stuff will pop up in regards to that. Or you can just reach out to me, RJ at the AI, CEO, AI. Um, I respond to all my emails, uh, try and get back to everyone within a day. Um, I have also exercises if you want to see if you would identify as an entrepreneur. I actually have a assessment that I can send you as well, that you can take, and it gives you, um, feedback in regards to your traits and characteristics around that.

Trisha Stetzel: Very nice. It’s fantastic. All right you guys, it’s RJ Grimshow g r I’m s h a w. As always, I will put all of the links that RJ talked about in the show notes. So you guys can just point and click if you happen to be sitting at your computer. If you’re in your car, please wait until you get home to point and click. And again, RJ, thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation today.

RJ Grimshow: Thanks, Trisha for having me. I greatly appreciate the opportunity to to have this conversation.

Trisha Stetzel: That’s all the time we have for today. If you found value in this conversation that I had with RJ today, please share it with a fellow entrepreneur, a veteran or a Houston leader ready to grow. Be sure to follow, rate, and review the show. It helps us reach more bold business minds just like yours and your business. Your leadership and your legacy are built one intentional step at a time. So stay inspired, stay focused, and keep building the business and the life you deserve.

 

Pivoting with Purpose: How Carmen Rad Found Success in Large Format Printing

October 20, 2025 by angishields

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Women in Motion
Pivoting with Purpose: How Carmen Rad Found Success in Large Format Printing
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In this episode of Women in Motion, Lee Kantor and Renita Manley interview Carmen Rad, President of CR&A Custom, Inc., a Los Angeles-based large format digital printing company. Carmen shares her journey from fashion marketing to leading a successful, environmentally conscious print business. She discusses overcoming industry challenges, the importance of networking and certifications like WOSB for government contracts, and offers practical advice for women entrepreneurs on problem-solving, financial partnerships, and bidding for government work. The conversation highlights Carmen’s resilience, innovation, and dedication to supporting other women in business.

CR&A Custom, Inc.

Carmen-RadCarmen Rad is the Founder/President of CR&A Custom – a large format digital printer with over 27 years of experience producing and installing all types of signage from retractable banners to wall murals to vehicle wraps to billboards.

While Carmen was 4 months pregnant, and extremely frustrated by the difficulty of getting paid by her employer at the time, she self-funded the launch of CR&A out of her home.

Over the last 2 decades, Carmen has spearheaded the growth of CR&A to 43 employees and they now operate out of 34,000 square foot headquarters in the heart of LA that exceeds all City of LA environmental requirements.

A combination of an award winning, in-house design team and owning the latest state-of-the-art equipment available, allows CR&A to assist customers from concept to manufacturing to installation. Their service capabilities reach all 50 U.S. states, Canada, South & Central America, plus the Caribbean.

Connect with Carmen on LinkedIn.

Episode Highlights

  • Carmen’s journey in the printing industry and her transition from fashion marketing and design.
  • The establishment and focus of CR&A Custom, Inc. on large format digital printing.
  • The company’s commitment to environmentally friendly practices and green technology.
  • Challenges faced during the transition to large format printing, including infrastructure and financial hurdles.
  • The importance of networking and community support for business growth.
  • Insights on obtaining certifications like Women-Owned Small Business (WOSB) for government contracts.
  • Strategies for problem-solving and effective communication with clients.
  • Notable projects and successes, including work with major clients like Nike and Kaiser Hospital.
  • Advice for women entrepreneurs on navigating government contracts and financial resources.
  • The significance of building strong relationships with financial institutions for business support.

Music Provided by M PATH MUSIC

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios. It’s time for Women in Motion. Brought to you by WBEC-West. Join forces. Succeed together. Now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here with Renita Manley. Another episode of Women in Motion. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor. WBEC-West. Without them, we wouldn’t be sharing these important stories. Renita, it’s going to be a good show, huh?

Renita Manley: Yeah, absolutely. It’s going to be a great show. I’m excited to have Carmen on. Talked with her earlier. She is a phenomenal WBE, so I’m excited to hear about her journey.

Lee Kantor: All right, so let’s introduce Carmen Rad. She’s the president of CR&A Custom, Inc.. Welcome, Carmen.

Carmen Rad: Well. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Lee Kantor: So before we get too far into things, tell us about CR&A Custom, Inc.. How are you serving folks?

Carmen Rad: So we’re a large format digital printing company based in Los Angeles. We’ve been in business for 32 years. We work on some of the largest activations here in California and some across the United States. Uh, we do what’s called large format printing. So when you see those really large graphics that wrap buildings, especially at the crypto center in downtown LA. All of the work that you see there is printed and installed by, uh, minority women owned company.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Carmen Rad: I didn’t start in large format printing. I have a degree in fashion marketing and design. And throughout the years, I kind of like it kind of just evolved into this industry. I was in the printing of sublimation fabrics. It’s a form of printing onto polyester materials, and that industry has really taken a major shift, and it’s much more sophisticated than when I started. But in 19 in the early 1990s, the United States made a treaty with China in which they were allowed to manufacture as much material and as much product as they can produce. And so the quota system was eliminated, and we saw that that was going to impact the garment industry, because I started in the garment industry and I used to manufacture clothing products for movie studios. And when we saw that, we decided to shift into large format printing so we can continue to work with the existing studios that we had, um, and tried to just, you know, nobody’s going to go overseas for a banner and they’re not going to go overseas for these type of, um, of activations. Um, and so we, we, we thought that it would be a good industry to shift into, um, that we can then, you know, cater to here in, in Los Angeles.

Lee Kantor: And then so you were able to make that pivot and then and so you learned about it and get the did you need different equipment or did you already have the equipment you needed to do it?

Carmen Rad: No, we didn’t have any equipment. Um, uh, we were at a convention in Las Vegas, and we’re was about to just invest in some really big, um, sublimation equipment at the time. And it was an industry that I really didn’t like because there was a lot of waste at that time. And there was another booth, and this gentleman, um, started to talk to us about large format printing. And my husband, I had a conversation and I said, yes, this sounds amazing. And so we decided to buy a 16 foot printer right then and there.

Lee Kantor: And that shows you the importance of going to those kind of shows, huh? You never know who you’re going to meet.

Carmen Rad: You never know who you’re going to meet or what you’re going to see or what you’re going to learn. And it was definitely a much cleaner industry. It was, uh, you know, they were already, uh, using environmentally friendly inks, and those things were important. You know, when you work in the printing industry, you’re around a lot of fumes and a lot of things that could be hazardous to your health. And we decided very early to invest in green technology.

Lee Kantor: And then so that was kind of when you were, um, trying to figure out kind of how you were going to go about doing this. That was an important consideration, as you wanted to be kind of as green as you could at each step of the way.

Carmen Rad: Correct. In fact, we were awarded Green Firm of the year by the City of Los Angeles about I don’t know, I forgot the year, maybe 2004.

Lee Kantor: Oh, so you’ve been you were you were doing it before. It was cool.

Carmen Rad: I didn’t even know the word green. I just knew that, you know, I’m. I’m exposing myself to these elements, and so are my employees.

Lee Kantor: Right. So you were just doing it because you wanted to be a good steward of your work or your workers, so that’s great. Now, um, did it catch on right away? Were you able to get traction right away, or was it, uh, kind of some bumps in the road when you, um, started getting into this?

Carmen Rad: There are many, many bumps, um, to work in large format printing. First of all, you have to, uh, assure that the facility, um, has a way of moving around. You know, manufacturing has a they all have different flow systems, and definitely in large format printing, you have to have these considerations starting from your floors, starting from electricity. There’s lots of little there’s lots of things before even the equipment arrives that are very expensive investments. And so no, I, we had lots of roadmaps, um, obstacles. In fact, in 2008, we bought a building in Los Angeles, and it took DWP 14 months to get us the correct electricity, um, so that we can move the equipment here. And we had two other buildings that we were renting at the time, one on 32nd and one on 17th Street. So that was a major obstacle. Now we were paying for three locations and getting ourselves into a very deep, deep debt.

Lee Kantor: So what was it that turned it around? Like how did you kind of get your sea legs and, and, uh, get the traction you needed to have the escape velocity so that you can be a thriving company that you are today.

Carmen Rad: Well, um, you know, when you attend, like, WebEx events, you also meet lots of other people that are involved. Um, and I had met this lady named Dorothy Randall and Linda Smith, who had a department at the city called Mbok Minority Business Opportunity Councils. And I started to reach out to them and, um, asked for support. And so I started to reach out to different people who then could help me with the city issues that we were having. Um, they would send me an engineer one week and he would say, do this, this and this. And then two weeks later we would have that done, and then another engineer would come in and say, well, you need this, this and this as well, or you needed something else. And because of that process, it was just delaying us. So they were able to come in and have a meeting, um, here at our facility with the engineers and for us to break down what were the things that we needed for this high voltage, uh, equipment we were investing in. Now, some of the equipment we were investing that, you know, they’re they’re they’re $1.2 million investments. And we had the SBA involved. The building was also purchased with the support of the SBA. So I reached out to every single support system that I could find. And I attended lots and lots and lots of events. Um, I always had an outfit in the car because if something was happening in Los Angeles, I would be ready to go. And I was just trying to learn this language, you know, being a woman certified business, um, it is a new language that you have to learn, and you have to invest your time to understand it and understand how it benefits and what you need to be doing to then advocate for yourself.

Lee Kantor: So then would you say that one of kind of the main benefits that you’ve gotten from being a member of Quebec West is the community and that support, um, and helping you make the connections you needed?

Carmen Rad: Oh, yes. Absolutely. Um, I then became friends with different women who were certified. I also joined another organization called Nabo was the National Association of Women Business Owners. And you know, we all could reach out to each other where, you know, most of us are experts in our field or, um, you know, women who have been in business for some years. And so you can get lots of support, get lots of answers. Uh, you could always call, um, any one of these organizations and say, hey, I’m having this problem. Could you direct me to somebody that maybe I should be working with? So yes, getting involved is definitely, um, a benefit. And, you know, you become friends with them as well. So I have long term relationships.

Lee Kantor: Right. And it transcends business. Right. These are like your friends now?

Carmen Rad: Yes.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, in your work, did you have a moment where you were like, hey, I think this is all going to work out? I think we we’ve cracked the code here, And did you have kind of that aha moment where you’re like, okay, I think we’re okay.

Carmen Rad: Oh of course. I mean, I’m in business now 32 years. Um, but I could honestly say that I would say that within the past ten years is when that aha moment finally came in, um, to do what we do. Uh, there’s a tremendous amount of, uh, infrastructure involved, investment, uh, departments that need to be, um, streamlined processes. Uh, there’s a lot of learning, uh, because I didn’t come from this industry, and I’m not someone who went to business school. So there were a lot of hurdles throughout this, um, you know, journey. But I had lots of triumphs as well.

Lee Kantor: Do you can you can you share some of the triumphs that may be the most rewarding moments are the moments you felt proud.

Carmen Rad: Um, I, I was in a meeting nonrelated. It was during Covid, actually. Uh, I was in a meeting at Kaiser Hospital, which is I. Every year I give myself a list of clients that I really like. Focus on that I want to, um, do business with just a list of maybe 4 or 5 clients that I say, this is what I’m going to focus on. And I was at a meeting, um, at this, um, at, at a Kaiser. And it was unrelated to what they were working on, what they were dealing with. It was not Covid related. And I got dragged into a meeting. Basically, the person I was working with said, follow me. And I entered another meeting and I could overhear their conversation. And, you know, well, they were they were talking in front of me about their issues, and I was able to leave that meeting and come back with a solution for them. And it was from prior years experience of putting things together. And I saw a problem and I saw the answer. Um, and we were able to facilitate and meet their needs in a really fast pace. So just really proud that, you know, our company was able to again, pivot again and support an issue that we saw that was, you know, a big issue.

Lee Kantor: And you were looking at it. You were just trying to help them solve a problem. You know, you went into it with kind of that open heart of, I’m trying to help somebody here. You weren’t really.

Carmen Rad: Well, I wasn’t invited. I was just asked to follow them. And I could, you know, I heard their problems. I saw what they were dealing with. And I go, then I said, you know, there may there’s a solution here, but it’s not necessarily the way, you know, when when you’re when you’re nontraditional. Like, I come from a different industry and I can I come from the garment industry. So when I see print, I don’t see it flat. I see it in a different way. And so we were able to give them advice and solve some things very, very quickly.

Lee Kantor: Right. You’re able to connect dots in ways that they can’t because you’re looking at it from a different kind of lens perspective.

Speaker7: Yeah.

Lee Kantor: So now is there, um, any project that you’re working on that you know, that you’re most proud lately? Anything. Anything? Uh.

Carmen Rad: Recently we just did a project in, uh, San Francisco for Nike in, in, uh, uh, on a building in the mission area. And this building is a historic building, so you can’t drill into the building. And, um, it was a very challenging, uh, graphic. It’s a large, large, uh, they’re large graphics. They’re like 130ft long by 60ft wide, and we figured out a way of hanging them using these water tanks. And, um, it was very successful. And, uh, we the building looked just phenomenal. And Nike has invited us again to do it for, uh, in February. So we’re going to repeat that project now.

Lee Kantor: Do you have any advice for the listeners when it comes to, um, how do you kind of nurture that problem solving skill that you have that ability to connect the dots with your team so that everybody kind of is looking for opportunities to solve problems for their clients?

Speaker7: Well.

Carmen Rad: You know, you’ve got to be a really good listener. You’ve got to really listen to the client and pick up those key words, because sometimes the client is Maybe, maybe not truly, truly understanding what the goal is at the end. Or maybe they think this is the goal, but there could be lots of lots of little things that you’re picking up as you’re listening to the client to really what is the best solution? Because you’re the expert in the field, the client is not. And so you just have to really listen and then, you know, continue to educate your client to continue to be transparent with your client so that they could also learn, um, uh, why you’re making these decisions or why you’re making this advice, giving this advice.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, um, about your firm and maybe they need you for a project, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Carmen Rad: Uh, you can reach out to our info at com. And there, um, you write up your requests. It then gets assigned to a team of project managers. Uh, there could be a graphic artist and then another manager involved. Um, and then we get on a phone call, and, uh, it’s traditional, uh, business practices. There’s a lot more phone conversations than just emails and just trying to hear out what the client really needs.

Lee Kantor: And the website is.

Speaker7: Correct.

Carmen Rad: And you can visit our Instagram as well.

Lee Kantor: Um, well, Carmen, congratulations on all the success. I mean, you’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Speaker7: Thank you.

Carmen Rad: Thank you, thank you for allowing me to speak today.

Lee Kantor: And, Renita, uh, you got some. You got the latest about the conference?

Renita Manley: Yeah, yeah. Just want to encourage everybody to make sure you go to our website. Rebecca WBEC-West hyphen West Comm, and go to our events calendar, and be sure to sign up for our, um, our conference that’s coming up in December from the 16th to the 18th. Carmen, uh, I know you’ve been to some of our events in the past, so I look forward to meeting you there.

Speaker7: Yes, yes.

Carmen Rad: Great event.

Renita Manley: Only if it’s. If possible. Can I ask one more question before we get up out of here?

Lee Kantor: Sure.

Renita Manley: Is that is that cool? Okay, awesome. And then we’ll jump on out of here. Sorry to hold you up. I just know that you have had some tremendous success with your government contracts. So before we go, is there one, um, one great piece of advice you can give to, um, maybe in similar industries as yours to help them with as much success as you have with that, with your certificate in government contracts.

Carmen Rad: Definitely. Um, you know, get yourself certified as Wosb so that you can work on government contracts. That’s a separate certification through, uh, we back west. Uh, I’ve definitely benefited. In fact, we won the Marines contract, uh, three years consecutively. Um, and this is more than $1 million contract, and we just won the Navy one this year. So, um, you know, make the investment. Um, also reach out to other people that are not necessarily in your field, maybe people who are marketing to help you make the best presentations. Um, you could always call the the, uh, the people who are soliciting the bids and ask them to see, to view previous bids, uh, so that you can understand how other people have won and why they’ve won. Um, but most importantly, are you really prepared to take on these contracts? Because once you commit to them, it is a commitment and you’re signing this really fine little print that you’re going to make sure that this happens. Um, you know, respecting all of the regulations and obligations that these contracts, uh, need. Um, and that you formed your team that can handle this. So you must be prepared. Really be prepared if you think you’re almost there. I don’t suggest that you do it. I suggest that maybe you try to even partner with the people that won the bid. Maybe they’re looking for subcontractors for this bid. And then you can come in the following year. Um, you know, find out who won the bid, offer your services to them. Just continue to market yourself.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you went after your early bids, were you going just by yourself or did you hire a consultant or some help? In the early ones.

Carmen Rad: We took on one of the bids. Um, we have our own marketing team here, and it literally took us about a month to fine tune every single letter, because these letters matter and to understand how the bid process works, Um, it’s all about verbiage and language. And you better cross those T’s and dot those eyes and really understand what these sentences mean. So we took a lot of time to, to bid.

Lee Kantor: And you invested a lot of manpower in that as well. This wasn’t something you like, oh let’s throw this in here this weekend and knock it out. This was something that you took seriously and invest a lot of time and resources in.

Speaker7: Correct?

Carmen Rad: We took a lot of time. And, you know, when you invest a month of your time, um, and even if we would have lost, I felt that it was the best investment because the bid was going to come live the following year. And we and we knew that. And so, you know, just learning how to properly bid. And there’s so many programs, there’s so many free programs, uh, that are out there. You can reach out to the SBA, you can Google it online. You can reach out to Webbank, who then could, you know, they have lots of other partners as well that are, you know, are are offering these type of services, um, that that can train you and you can even like go meet with them in person. So I made that investment and I dedicated years of my, of my career, um, learning.

Lee Kantor: And that was before you even attempted.

Speaker7: I attempted, yes.

Lee Kantor: Right. So you did a lot of groundwork before to make sure that when you did try that you were as well prepared as you could be.

Speaker7: Yes.

Carmen Rad: I’m not I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, that’s for sure. But I will find the resources and people who are.

Lee Kantor: Well, good.

Renita Manley: What about money? I know. Sorry about that. What about money? I know, um, a lot of bits. You have to have some resources available. So what do you have to say to babies who might be trying to go after a huge bid but are kind of shaky, or their resources are a bit mysterious?

Carmen Rad: You know, I think it’s important to have really good relationships with your bankers. Um, you know, in the banking relationship, I think that women sometimes, um, don’t don’t, um, interact with their bankers as much as the men do. And so really making the investment to, you know, have the bankers come in and understand your business, have them, you know, share with them when you have a triumph, have them understand what you’re going through and what you’re building, so that when you know and you can share with them, look, I’m working on this, I might I might need a line of credit for this. This is what I’m doing. This is my goals. Like, be a little bit, you know, more, uh, like, transparent with them as well. Like, prepare them for what you’re trying to do.

Lee Kantor: So you’re treating them like partners, like they’re your trusted advisor. That we’re in this together?

Speaker7: Correct? Correct.

Carmen Rad: Not that they’re just giving you a loan, you know, or because you’re the one really in power at this point. You know, if a bank, if you’re working with a good bank, they’re going to want to grow with you. They’re not going to let you go. They’re not going to want to let you go.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Carmen, thank you so much again for sharing it. It’s a great story and you should be so proud that it the success that you’ve had in this industry of coming in with, you know, not kind of being from the industry, but looking at it with fresh eyes and then really growing and thriving is just an inspirational story. So thank you so much for sharing.

Speaker7: Thank you.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor for Renita Manley. We will see you all next time on Women in Motion.

Speaker3: Hey, pick me up when I’m down. Oh, me.

 

BRX Pro Tip: The Role of Tension in the Sales Process

October 17, 2025 by angishields

BRX Pro Tip: Understanding the Difference in the Story We Tell Ourselves and What Actually Happened in a Sales Call

October 16, 2025 by angishields

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BRX Pro Tip: Understanding the Difference in the Story We Tell Ourselves and What Actually Happened in a Sales Call

Stone Payton: And we’re back with Business RadioX Pro Tips. Lee Kantor and Stone Payton here with you. I think this pro tip was designed for Stone, so I’m interested to hear your take. But it’s truly understanding the difference between what actually happened and the story that we tell ourselves happened in a sales call.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, I think it’s so important to kind of separate the two things. A lot of times, when you go on a sales call, you’re going to have a story about what happened after the sales call, and that may not match exactly what happened in the sales call. So, it’s important to kind of document things. It’s important to kind of capture data that is going to tell you the truth, because this is what happens in real life. Go on a sales call, you have a conversation, and you’re going to spin it. Your brain, our human brain loves to spin narratives that justify, explain, or soften the outcomes. And those stories can cloud your judgment, and they can really stall your growth.

Lee Kantor: So, it’s important to separate your facts from feelings. You should be questioning your narrative. You should be looking for any assumptions or biases that you’re going to make, or that you do make, or that you’ve historically made. And then, ultimately, you want to focus on the data. The data is going to tell you another story and use the data as kind of the tiebreaker of what’s real and what’s not real. And then, at the end of the day, you want to stay curious because you have to have that kind of beginner’s mindset and not get defensive over what happened. The story you tell yourself can either be a trap or a tool. So, you can’t — the facts are the facts. You can choose to own the facts. You can choose to eliminate any blame. You can choose to get rid of the drama and just use real insights based on real data to level up your sales game every single time. So, don’t get defensive about what really happened. Look and lean into the data. Lean into the facts, own the outcome, and begin to tell yourself a different story.

BRX Pro Tip: What To Do When Things Don’t Go Your Way

October 15, 2025 by angishields

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BRX Pro Tip: What To Do When Things Don’t Go Your Way

Stone Payton: Welcome back to Business RadioX Pro Tips. Lee Kantor and Stone Payton here with you. Lee, it’s fun when everything’s falling into place and when everything’s coming up, Stone. But what counsel do you have for what to do when things don’t go your way?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. I mean, there’s no escaping this. There’s going to be times when things don’t go your way. And you got to learn how to bounce back like a pro. You have to kind of put things in place ahead of time, so you can be ready when things aren’t going your way, and how to get back on track as quickly as possible. You do not want to take one bad day and turn it into two bad days. Then, now, you have a bad week. And now, you have a bad month. And now, you have a bad quarter. And then, soon, you’re out of business. So, you do not want that to happen.

Lee Kantor: So, things are going to go sideways, deals aren’t going to come together, and sometimes, the universe is just going to throw a curve at you that you didn’t anticipate. When things don’t go your way, your reaction is really what’s going to define your future.

Lee Kantor: So, here’s some ways to handle setbacks with the grit and with the grace you need in order to get back on track. Number one, before you react to whatever is happening, take a moment to breathe and get clarity. You don’t want your response to be emotion driven. That will, a lot of times, make things worse. Focus on understanding what happened and why it happened without any judgment. It’s so important to kind of get clarity around this and not just react emotionally.

Lee Kantor: Another thing to do that really has served me well is you want to always reframe failing into learning. Look at ways that the setback is insightful. Where is the opportunity? What can I learn from this? What’s something I can do next time, so this doesn’t happen? How can I make the best of this? And don’t get into the blame game where you’re just looking for someone to pin this on. A growth mindset is going to turn a failure into fuel. So, when things don’t go your way, don’t get stuck in the defeat. Own it, learn from it, and keep moving forward, smarter and better than you were. Remember, resilience isn’t about never failing. It’s about learning. Then, getting up faster and better every time you do.

Rise8: Empowering Veterans Through Meaningful Software Development

October 14, 2025 by angishields

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In this episode of Veteran Business Radio,host Lee Kantor talks with Bryon Kroger, founder and CEO of Rise8. Bryon shares his journey from U.S. Air Force intelligence officer to tech entrepreneur, discussing how his military experiences inspired him to improve software delivery for the Department of Defense and Veterans Affairs. The conversation covers overcoming bureaucratic hurdles, building a mission-driven company culture, and supporting veterans transitioning to civilian tech roles. Bryon also highlights Rise8’s commitment to hiring veterans and offers advice on battling imposter syndrome, emphasizing the importance of recognizing achievements and fostering community support.

Bryon-KrogerBryon Kroger is the Founder and CEO of Rise8, spearheading initiatives to deliver software solutions 25x faster than traditional methods.

A former US Air Force targeteer with firsthand experience of the devastating impact inadequate software has on mission success, Bryon co-founded Kessel Run, the DOD’s first software factory, where he served as COO leading acquisitions, development, and operations for the enterprise-scale software lab that defined DOD DevOps.

While there, he pioneered the first continuous Authority to Operate (cATO). Frustrated with the lack of industry partners capable of leading defense digital transformation, Bryon founded Rise8 to fill that gap.

Today he is the leading expert on cATO and the bureaucracy hacking necessary to continuously deliver valuable software users love. Rise8-logo

Connect with Bryon on LinkedIn.

Episode Highlights

  • Transition from military service to entrepreneurship
  • Challenges faced in software development during military service
  • Importance of rapid software deployment in government contracting
  • Overcoming bureaucratic hurdles in software delivery
  • Building a company culture focused on mission impact
  • Strategies for recruiting and retaining top talent in a startup environment
  • The significance of closing the feedback loop between developers and end users
  • Addressing imposter syndrome among veterans transitioning to civilian careers
  • The role of training programs like SkillBridge in supporting veterans
  • Commitment to delivering measurable outcomes for warfighters, veterans, and clinicians

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Veterans Business Radio, brought to you by ATL vets, providing the tools and support that help veteran owned businesses thrive. For more information, go to ATL vetsource. Now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here another episode of Veterans Business Radio and this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, Veterans Business Radio ATL vets, inspiring veterans to build their foundation of success and empowering them to become the backbone of society after the uniform. For more information, go to ATL vets. Today we have a great show on it. We have the founder and CEO of Rise8, Bryon Kroger. Welcome.

Bryon Kroger: Thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Before we get too far into things, tell us about Rise8. How are you serving folks?

Bryon Kroger: So we provide continuous software development to the DoD and Veterans Affairs. Our focus is on shipping mission outcomes into production. So we want to make sure that the software we build very quickly gets into the hands of warfighters, veterans and clinicians.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Bryon Kroger: Well, I spent ten years active duty Air Force. So for the first seven years I was an intelligence officer, I did almost entirely targeting operations assignments. And as I like to tell people, it’s not like what you see in the movies. I had really terrible software to work with, and I was conducting very critical missions. And sometimes I saw our bad software caused missions to fail and people to die. And so I got pretty frustrated towards the end of my time. So around year seven, I applied for acquisition Intel exchange, and I got assigned to the program office where they made my terrible software. The targeting program office. And from there I launched an initiative called Kessel Run, a project inside the Air Force big digital transformation initiatives. Probably one of the most successful ones in the department. And yeah, from there I spent three years building that up, scaling it. It was very successful, and I decided I wanted to help other people do software better and critical mission spaces.

Lee Kantor: So you were were you a technologist? You were actually doing the coding?

Bryon Kroger: Yeah. So early on in my career, like I said, I was an intelligence officer targeting. I did teach myself some basic programing skills to try to solve some of my own problems when I was out in the field, but it wasn’t until the last three years that I really got deeper into that. But very quickly, I transitioned from writing code, which I will say I’m not. I’m not a great software developer. I’ve got like a fifth grade software programing level, but managing the delivery of software is what I became really passionate about. I called myself a bureaucracy hacker. I’m really good at figuring out how to get the software that great engineers build into the hands of of users.

Lee Kantor: So that’s what you sensed as the kind of root cause of the problem. It was just either there wasn’t efficiencies or there weren’t. There were communication issues, like what was kind of at the heart of why this was so difficult.

Bryon Kroger: Yeah, the root cause is definitely around the actual deployment of the software. And so I think there’s a few things at play. One is oftentimes when contractors or even blue suiters are writing code, they don’t know what environment they’re targeting, like where is the software going to live? And so they have to make a lot of assumptions. And when those assumptions prove false, it’s hard to deploy your software. That’s maybe one class of problems. A bigger one though was the the ATO process, the cybersecurity and privacy compliance process that the DoD uses. Um, and so we figured out how to hack that bureaucracy and make sure that we can go fast. Deploying software on demand, sometimes multiple times a day, while still meeting all of the compliance requirements. And this would include for. You know, we did secret top secret environments. Uh, so really stringent compliance requirements. And we’re able to meet those requirements and go fast at the same time.

Lee Kantor: So by being on kind of both sides of the table, it gave you an insight and maybe the ability to understand where where speed can be found.

Bryon Kroger: Yeah, absolutely. And I realized something there. And this is why, you know, I don’t know if I knew it was the root cause going in, but I also sensed other issues, like the developers were really disconnected from the actual end users and how they were going to be using their software. Uh, as one example. And, you know, it turned out that was just a symptom of slow software delivery, because once you speed up software delivery, now the time from code written to in the hands of users goes from years like in the DoD. This takes years sometimes, uh, to, you know, now we could do it daily. And so this gives you a really tight feedback loop with your end users. They want to talk to you because they get software quickly. And you want to talk to them because it helps you build better software. And so a lot of the other issues kind of melted away once we established those really fast feedback loops by delivering software quickly.

Lee Kantor: And then I would imagine once you did that then kind of the culture improves, right? Everybody is seeing, you know, their their efforts pay off in getting information quickly as opposed to being this bureaucratic kind of black hole.

Bryon Kroger: 100%. And this crosses all industries, right? One of the most famous examples that I always love is the Nummi auto manufacturing story. There’s a This American Life podcast episode about it. That’s that’s fantastic. But it was essentially GM’s worst performing plant in the US. Toyota said they’d do a joint venture with MGM. Gave them that plant to work with. Um, they brought those people out to Japan. And just instead of trying to indoctrinate them or do what we do in the military, which is put everybody in front of computer based training and tell them what their values should be and hope that changes the culture. They just said, come and work with us in a different way. And once people saw the results of working in a different way, it changed values, attitudes and beliefs. It changed the culture. It became the highest performing plant in the United States within a few weeks. And so similarly, we saw those same results. And everywhere I go with Rise8, we see that culture improves once delivery improves.

Lee Kantor: So then once you left the military and then started rising, was that kind of just the next logical step in your progression, or was this kind of a thing that you were like, you were kind of debating or struggling with making this kind of decision?

Bryon Kroger: Yeah, it was the obvious thing that I needed to do based on the mission I have, because I’m passionate about creating a future where fewer bad things happen because of bad software. You know, I’ve seen the worst of the worst. Um, I think, uh, to say that it was an easy decision, though. It’s not true. I was, uh, you know, I had three kids at the time. We ended up having a fourth shortly after I started receipt. Um, you know, I spent ten years in the military. I didn’t really know what it meant to have a civilian career, let alone to start and scale a company. So those are all really scary decisions. And I had almost no runway, like, I, um, it’s a funny story. Well, sad story, but, uh, you know, my my father had passed away, uh, about four months before I was getting out of the military, and, um, he he had stashed some money in a coffee can in his, in his trailer. And, uh, that became my runway to start rising. It wasn’t much, um, but it was enough to get me off the ground.

Lee Kantor: So when it was, um. So now you’re in kind of the civilian workforce, and you have a company that is working with the government. Was that something that, um, you know, the early days? Were you getting kind of early wins because you had said you had made such powerful relationships and had demonstrated so much value. Was it kind of not that difficult to get those early opportunities, or was this something that you struggled with? Because a lot of firms, you know, a lot of people come out of the military and they’re like, I’m going to do this thing based on what I did. And for some people that, you know, that’s a that’s a big lift.

Bryon Kroger: Yeah. Um, I’m fairly risk averse. So I like to have a really solid plan going into things. I would say certainly my, my connections and my reputation from starting Kessel Run inside the military helped, like a lot of people said, hey, help me build a Kessel Run. Um, but, uh, as you probably well know, government contracting is very difficult even if somebody wants to work with you. And so I had to learn a whole new skill about how to go after and win contracts, um, and how to do those in ways where I could actually deliver what I was selling, right? Which is something very transformative. As you can imagine, when you’re doing this high end kind of software development, it’s not the cheap butts and seats kind of approach that the government is used to. And so you’re trying to convince people, you know, even though I had my success at Kessel Run, it’s like, well, can Bryan run a company? Can he hire the, you know, elite talent that can help me from the outside? Uh, can he scale? There’s, you know, all of these doubts that they have and rightfully so. And so, you know, you got to start over. I was leading Kessel Run, which was like a 1500 person organization, and I started over as a company of one. Right. Um, and you just build bit by bit and keep stacking wins until you have a stack of proof that you are who you say you are.

Lee Kantor: So what were kind of the early challenges? Um, was it kind of just learning the language on how to do an RFP, or was it, um, you know, I got to get some more talent in here that I trust that can, you know, actually deliver the things that I’m telling them I’m going to deliver.

Bryon Kroger: Yeah. Um, you know, getting the talent in the early days is always difficult. Especially that first employee. You know, when you’re a company of one going to two, it’s like convincing somebody to risk their livelihood on you is is a challenge. I think the reputation helped. Um, and because I, I knew that I wanted elite talent and I didn’t I say this is like good advice to anybody going into the civilian workforce, but especially if you’re striking out on your own, even if it’s as an independent consultant, is like, know your value and stick to it. All of these prime contractors, like when you first start, you’re probably going to have to subcontract. It’s hard to win prime contracts until you have some demonstrated past performance, and they will try to get you to, you know, give discounts and lower your rates. And, uh, you know, you got to do what you’ve got to do to survive. But I would tell people, you know, at the end of the day, if you make a sacrifice on rates, for instance, that translates to lower salaries, which translates to lower talent. And that means you probably can’t deliver as much as you want to. And so I just had a policy of like, I’m not going to discount my prices. My prices are my prices. And they are that way because I know that’s what people are willing to pay. It’s worth it. It’s actually extremely valuable. And that’s hard to do in the early days. But it paid off because I was able to, uh, command the kind of rates that were able to get me the kind of talent to reinforce that virtuous cycle of hiring really great talent, crushing it on a project, and then winning more work. Um, and I think other people get stuck in a doom loop where they lower their prices, they don’t deliver well, and they have to lower their prices even more.

Lee Kantor: So what were your other non-negotiables?

Bryon Kroger: Oof! Uh, we have we have a number of them. You know, I, uh, you never know this at the outset, but I, I screen customers, I guess I should say, for, uh, our ability to ship outcomes to end users. And so if I don’t believe that the customer either has a path to production or is willing to let me build one, I wouldn’t take them. So there were a ton of people that wanted to work with us, but, you know, they’re perfectly complacent with, uh, you know, marketing and PR stunts and fake delivery. And, uh, I just said no to a lot of those opportunities. And, um, it’s hard it’s hard to walk away from, you know, multi-million dollar, uh, contracts, especially ones that will come with good PR but we just kept focusing on where can we actually deliver value to war fighters and veterans and clinicians.

Lee Kantor: So you were kind of clear with your true north and you just stayed focused on that. It’s either a hell yeah or no.

Bryon Kroger: Yep. And like I said, that’s hard to do in those early days. You know, uh, it’s like very attractive to look at $1 million contract or even a $500,000 contract. And to say no to that in the early days is hard. But again, something that definitely pays off in the long run if you’re trying to build long term value.

Lee Kantor: So when it comes to leading a team, um, as a civilian, what is the difference between that and your time in the military? Like how or is it the same?

Bryon Kroger: Uh, it’s generally the same. I think in a lot of ways, the military prepared me well to lead a team in a company. Um, maybe the one thing that I’ll say is very different from building this from the inside at Kessel Run. Uh, as a as a military member versus being on the contractor side. Twofold. One is at Kessel Run. I was, you know, I guess operating with other people’s money, the taxpayers money. And so I took that very seriously, like, I care about doing right by the taxpayer. But, uh, you know, I didn’t have to worry about, you know, if we messed up, we’re five civilians going to get fired, right? Like, people’s jobs weren’t generally at risk. I didn’t have to deal with HR and payroll and all that stuff, you know, um, coming to the other side, it’s like you make mistakes and it can cost people their livelihoods. Um, and, and, uh, it’s just the gravity of the situation is much different. And then the other one is just control, right? Uh, when when I was leading Kessel Run, I had full control over the decisions because I was the government. Um, now I face inherently governmental decisions, and I have to rely on my champions and stakeholders to do the right thing.

Bryon Kroger: Uh, so it’s a lot more influence where it used to be, uh, just like command authority and being very directive. And along with that, there’s maybe a another aspect that I’ll mention and that’s that, you know, uh, you can’t, uh, operate with the same, um. Kind of, uh, scaling model. So, you know, at Kessel Run and the reason why I wanted to leave government and start rising, you know, I had an assignment cycle that was coming up, and I was going to have to go to a new place and I could start a new Kessel Run, but it was always going to be one by one by one. Right? You can vertically scale wherever you’re assigned. But I was never going to be able to really, in a direct way, help, uh, several Air Force programs, let alone Army, Navy, VA. Right. And so coming out and starting rising the trade off, even though I have less control, I’m able to scale horizontally and have more horizontal impact. And so that was a trade off worth making for me.

Lee Kantor: So are you. Is are you getting the outcome you desired?

Bryon Kroger: Yeah, absolutely. So I mentioned that I am passionate about creating a future where fewer bad things happen because of bad software, uh, that, you know, drive, uh, for us. We talk about that in terms of outcomes. So mission impact with software is created through user outcomes. So user outcome would be a change in human behavior that produces some mission impact. Maybe we can generate more space support requests or we can operate a mission with five fewer people. Um, those are the kinds of things we aim for. And as software developers, we have direct control over those changes in user behavior that we can create through software. And so I’ve organized my entire culture around putting outcomes in production right into operations. And, uh, our goal is by the year 2040, we want to put 50,000 outcomes into production for critical missions. And right now we are we are on track. Uh, we have an annual goal every year. We’ve met it every single year. And, uh, I’m just really excited that I get to keep doing this. It’s like I pinch myself sometimes. It’s hard and it can be scary sometimes, but, uh, it’s definitely impactful. And, um, something I’m really passionate about.

Lee Kantor: So do you have any advice for veterans Leaving Service today? Is there anything that you would like to share about your journey that might make it a little easier for them to drive impact as they, you know, enter a new chapter?

Bryon Kroger: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, in the tech community, there’s this concept of imposter syndrome that gets talked about a lot. It transcends the tech community. But I think it’s talked about a lot there. And I think it’s something every veteran faces when they’re leaving the service. Uh, they go into the civilian job market and they feel like an imposter. And, uh, I think the, the antidote to that is being able to I mentioned this earlier, in fact, have a stack of proof, like an undeniable stack of proof that you are who you say you are. And I think that there’s two things that can be true. One is you don’t actually have that proof, so you need to go get it. And you got to look in the mirror and get really honest of like, do I have the stack of proof or am I just not taking account of it? If it’s you don’t have it, go get the training. Like the skill bridge program, for instance, is a phenomenal way to get a six month, uh, you know, DoD paid internship with a commercial company, learn skills, and use that time to build that stack of proof. Um, or if you’re on the other side of that, you actually do have the stack of proof going into this, this thing that you want to do is you’ve got to be able to accept it.

Bryon Kroger: And I think a lot of times people are like, oh, but it’s different because I was in the military. It’s not, uh, you have a stack of proof that you are who you say you are, and you just have to take account of it. And I think one way or another, uh, you can get over that imposter syndrome. And that’s where the magic happens. And, you know, I would say, uh, the thing that people overlook or maybe underestimate is just getting the reps in, like, don’t focus on, uh, you know, everybody can be guilty. And I love going. Bowling is important. It’s great to look out ten years and five years and one year. But I think it’s easy to get stuck in the trap of of doing that and not just putting one foot in front of the other and, uh, stacking those small wins until you get to that big picture. And, um, yeah, I would just say put the reps in and, uh, you’ll get get over that imposter syndrome and you’ll get to where you’re going.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. I think it’s so important to, to just do capture those wins in some sort of visible manner where you see it, at least, so that you don’t forget. Because I think a lot of people, they just forget the day to day victories. And then when asked about it, they don’t, you know, they discount it or they, like you say, underestimate the impact that they’ve made. So I think it’s important to kind of visually see some of those victories. So you, you don’t have that imposter syndrome because it really is kind of Self-sabotage. Um, because it’s not necessary.

Bryon Kroger: 100% agree.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you? You need more talent. It sounds like you got this kind of figured out on how to get the work. Um. What, you need more, uh, funds to grow. What do you need?

Bryon Kroger: Right now? We are growing 50% year over year. That’s our target. Or that’s actually the cap that I set on the company. I don’t want to grow faster than that so that we can maintain our culture and our quality level. But, um, that means we are always hiring. So if there are veterans out there, I would say, um, help me help you. I love doing the skill bridge program that I mentioned earlier. We’ve had I think just over 20 veterans come through our program. Um, we’ve either employed them ourselves. I think over half of them. We’ve employed ourselves and we’ve found employment for everybody else. We don’t have anybody that did not get employment. And then, um, you know, we’re, uh, I think upwards of 40% veterans at Rise8. So, um, that said, if that’s not for you, uh, and you just care about this ecosystem like I do, and you want to make a difference and create better software for warfighters and veterans and clinicians, uh, happy to just be an ally in the community. Um, people can follow me on LinkedIn. I talk a lot about it there and share the good word and get people to focus on this problem.

Lee Kantor: And if somebody wants to connect and learn more about rise, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect with you or somebody on the team?

Bryon Kroger: Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn, shoot me a DM or, uh, rise US is our website. Uh, that’s the number eight. Us. Uh, and there’s a form there that you can contact our team.

Lee Kantor: Well, Brian, thank you so much for sharing your story. You’re doing important work, and we appreciate you.

Bryon Kroger: Thank you.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Veterans Business Radio.

 

Tagged With: Rise8

BRX Pro Tip: Why the Stoics Think About Death Every Day

October 14, 2025 by angishields

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BRX Pro Tip: Why the Stoics Think About Death Every Day

Stone Payton: Welcome back to Business RadioX Pro Tips. Stone Payton Lee Kantor here with you. Lee, I know you are a real student of the stoics. I got a question for you because I think I saw this somewhere, why do stoics think about death so much? I mean, like, every day?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. I think, you know, that stoicism is important to me. Every day I read a passage from a stoic journal. I think that one of their main tenets of “Control what you can control” is just critical to the way I live my life and the way that we try to live the Business RadioX life. But one of the, kind of, foundational principles of stoicism is that they do think about death a lot, and they use mortality to kind of supercharge their focus. Stoics weren’t morbid in the sense that they just dwelled on death, but they look at the fact that everybody dies as kind of a daily reflection on death, as the ultimate productivity hack. When you’re thinking about your eventual death, that clarifies what things are really important, what things truly matter. It gets rid of all the distractions, and it can light a fire under your decision making.

Lee Kantor: So, it’s just a reminder, number one, time is limited. It’s about kind of sparking urgency and gratitude. Ask yourself, “If today were my last day, what would I prioritize?” And then, do that. It also kind of helps you focus on what you can control. Instead of stressing, double down on your choices and actions that are yours alone. This sharpens your focus. It reduces wasted energy. And number three, let go of your ego and fear. Knowing life is finite is going to help you stop sweating, kind of, the small stuff and the insignificant stuff and things like what other people think. When you clear that kind of mental noise, you become bolder, you become more authentic, and you become way more effective. It’s kind of a powerful mental reset that pushes you to live and work with intention, courage and clarity. So, that’s why I believe stoics think about death every day.

BRX Pro Tip: How to Immerse Your Audience in Your Sales Story

October 13, 2025 by angishields

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Stone Payton: And we’re back with Business RadioX Pro Tips. Stone Payton and Lee Kantor here with you. Lee, we talk a lot about the sales story. How do you get your audience immersed in your sales story?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Telling your sales story is so important. You really have to practice it. You really have to hone it. This isn’t something you should be winging because you want to ultimately immerse your audience in the story. You want to make them feel like they’re living it. So, a sales story doesn’t have to feel like a pitch. It shouldn’t feel like a pitch. It should feel like a real experience. When your audience feels your story, they’re more engaged, they’re more interested, and they’re way more likely to say yes when you’re trying to sell them something. So, immersing your prospects means pulling them in with vivid details, emotional hooks, and relatable moments.

Lee Kantor: So, number one, paint pictures with your words. Describe sights, sounds, emotions, and outcomes that make your prospects see and feel the impact of your solution. Number two, people connect with stories about real customers, real challenges, and real wins. Share these relatable scenarios that mirror your prospect’s situation in order to build trust and credibility. And number three, great story has a problem, and then it shows a solution. Show the tension. Show the struggle your client faced before the product saved the day. This is going to make the payoff more powerful. It’s going to make it more memorable. You want to make your prospects feel seen and understood, and you’ll turn your stories into sold deals.

Lee Kantor: So, remember, spend some time crafting these stories. Do not just rely on winging it. Record yourself telling the story, clean it

Designing Brands That Connect: Insights from SAW Design Studios

October 13, 2025 by angishields

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Brought to you by Diesel David and Main Street Warriors

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In this episode of Cherokee Business Radio, Joshua Kornitsky interviews Sarah-Anne Wildgoose, CEO of SAW Design Studios. Sarah-Anne shares her journey from industrial design to founding her own branding and marketing firm, discussing the importance of visual storytelling and strategic branding. She explains how effective design blends art and science, and emphasizes viewing marketing as an investment. The conversation covers her experiences in product and graphic design, the value of consistent branding, and practical advice for businesses seeking to connect with their target audiences and grow through thoughtful marketing strategies.

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Sarah-Anne-WildgooseSarah-Anne Wildgoose, CEO and Founder of SAW Design Studio, is a master visual storyteller with over 35 years of graphic design expertise, bridging the communication gap between client and customer. She has partnered with start-ups and prominent brands like Schick Razor, Georgia Pacific, and Birdsey Construction.

Sarah-Anne is passionate about accelerating business visibility in an oversaturated marketplace and shapes the design process in 3 ways:  Capitalizing on the fact that 80% of the population are visual learners. 

Blending graphic design, branding, and marketing to identify the digital and print media to position clients in front of their target audience.  Designing marketing tools that work like magnets, attracting, engaging and connecting her clients to their customers. Her strategy is graphic-driven messaging to create clear, concise, and consistent brand stories that are memorable.

Since emotions drive over 90% of decisions, color, font, and imagery are used very strategically. As a brand security officer, she ensures that all the marketing pieces fit and work together, because unity builds the know, like, and trust. 

Working as a partner, a team extension, and collaborating with marketing and sales, her clients receive image-driven digital and print media to keep the brand top of mind, which results in improved revenue.

Connect with Sarah-Anne on LinkedIn.

Episode Highlights

  • Sarah-Anne’s professional journey from industrial design to branding and visual storytelling.
  • The significance and definition of visual storytelling in effective communication.
  • The relationship between branding and visual storytelling, including the importance of brand identity.
  • The blend of art and science in design and branding processes.
  • The perception of marketing as an investment versus an expense for businesses.
  • Strategies for effective marketing, including the importance of understanding target audiences.
  • The role of visual elements in enhancing marketing materials and engagement.
  • The value of long-term partnerships between marketing professionals and businesses.
  • The challenges of rebranding and the importance of thoughtful, research-driven approaches.
  • The impact of data and measurement tools on modern marketing strategies.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Woodstock, Georgia. It’s time for Cherokee Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Joshua Kornitsky: Welcome back to Cherokee Business Radio. I am Joshua Kornitsky, a professional implementer of the entrepreneurial operating system. And your host here today. Uh, before we get started, we’ve got a fantastic guest in studio. I just want to make sure everybody remembers that. Today’s episode is brought to you in part by the Community Partner program, the Business RadioX Main Street Warriors defending capitalism, promoting small business, and supporting our local community. For more information, go to Mainstreet Warriors and a special note of thanks to our title sponsor for the Cherokee chapter of Main Street Warriors. Diesel David Inc. Please go check them out at diesel. Com today in studio. I’ve got an amazing guest. My guest is Sarah-Anne Wildgoose, the CEO and founder of SAW Design Studios. They specialize in visual storytelling and they span design, branding and marketing. So she’s here today to share her journey, her perspective on the value of design, and how she helps businesses stand out and connect with their visual identity. Welcome, Sarah-Anne, it’s really a joy to have you here today.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well, thank you so much, Joshua. I am so happy to be here and I value that you’re having me as a guest. Thank you.

Joshua Kornitsky: It’s truly a pleasure. I love learning and have always had a soft spot for things related to the universe of marketing. Uh, and I say related to because that’s just not a single drop in the bucket. It’s it’s quite a big ripple when you drop that that that drop in. Yes. So can you tell us let’s start at the beginning. Tell us about your journey, about what got you to where you are.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Okay, well, I’m going to go way back briefly. That’s right. So my mother was a fine artist and my father was an engineer.

Joshua Kornitsky: Oh, wow.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So then when I chose to study industrial design, I basically married the two disciplines. And I always joke that my designs have the creative flair from my mother. But the logic and the value from my father. So they are grounded solutions.

Joshua Kornitsky: That’s great.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And then from there, obviously, as I said, I started in industrial design, which is product design, and I worked in that discipline for about 15 years.

Joshua Kornitsky: Oh, wow.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And, um, I really enjoyed product design, but just felt, um, when I came to a crossroads after being with Tupperware and once again, they were going to leave Rhode Island, where I was at the time.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And moved to Florida. I decided, you know what? I need to put my career and my hands not in the corporate system. And that’s when I started my first business.

Joshua Kornitsky: Really? Okay. And and during I mean, 15 years is is almost a career into itself. During that time, what were some of the things that you worked on?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So I ended up in the medical field twice.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: There were two Johnson and Johnson companies I worked for. Both, I would say were probably my most favorite jobs. And the reason being is in the healthcare industry, there are real problems. And I would say instrumentation bottom line is more about the cost. Also, you’ve got human beings using the products, right? So you’ve got to focus on user interface. But then also from the patient side that is interacting with the system. So when I was with Technicare and Johnson and Johnson Orthopedics. Both were ergonomic nightmares. So when you’re designing ultrasound equipment, you have scan texts that are five foot two and you’ve got others that are six foot four, right? So in the middle, how does that person interact with the system and wheel it down the hallway? Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: So it’s that what do they call it, the design of everyday things. Right. It’s people don’t realize that thought has to go into that.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: So I as I said, it’s always amazed me. But you did share one other thing that you that you worked on that I have to ask about because it was my favorite part of the story. Uh, a little bit about toys.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Oh, yeah, that that was a lot of fun. So, uh, I went to the University of Cincinnati, okay. And they have a co-op program, so that means it’s a work study. You’re at work, and then you go back to school, and then you’re at work, and then you go back to school. So I landed at Tupperware, and, uh, they just threw us right in and they gave us project briefs. And two of mine was was a, one was a Bell system, a Bell telephone truck because Bell was still around.

Joshua Kornitsky: Absolutely. I remember.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Uh, maybe I shouldn’t have said that the dating myself. But anyway, um, so it was fun because they gave you a project brief, but they didn’t define everything. And I looked at the way I was designing it, and they wanted the truck guy, Pete, the truck guy, to have his little pylons and little extra equipment. So I designed in a drawer that could slide to either side of the truck, but not be removed, because if you remove and lose the drawer.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: There goes the play value. Right, right. Yeah. So that was a lot of fun. And, uh, the other one was a car carrier. So if you think about a race car going off to the racetrack, they’re usually carried on something. And so the truck was a car carrier. And I think my favorite memory from being there was the smash test.

Joshua Kornitsky: So I think I spent most of my childhood smash testing.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So you’d go out to the hallway that they had a giganto super sized rubber band, so to speak, that you could pull about ten feet away from the wall. So you’d put the toy in the slingshot, going, okay, and you’d let it go and smash up against the wall and see literally where the pieces would fall. But then it would show weaknesses within the design.

Joshua Kornitsky: I spent some time in software design, and in many ways we mirrored that. Except without the rubber band, right? Um, but nonetheless, that’s. I love that visual. But the fact that that was actually done. Uh, it makes it even better. Um, but that was all really designed focus for for 15 odd years. And then you shifted into, um, branding and visual storytelling. So, so help me understand, because number one, I’d love if you would give us a basic explanation of of what visual storytelling means and what. And I know this is the the hardest question in the world what branding means, but at a high level, because one of the things that I often find is I make assumptions too often that people understand exactly what I’m talking about. Right? And you’re in an industry that everyone thinks they understand that very few people probably know the nuances of. Would you share first? What is branding? What is visual storytelling in whichever order makes the most sense?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So visual storytelling is. I think a lot of people don’t realize they’re visual learners, but at least 80% of us are visual learners. So what that means is you need words and you need pictures to really send the message and have it solidify with someone. So we’ve all been there before. You’re sitting in a conference room and someone opens up PowerPoint and bada boom.

Joshua Kornitsky: Sorry. You nod off.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes, you lose them at hello.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right? You really do.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Because everything is words. So now if you pictorial lies. So that’s the visual storytelling part of any story. If it’s a sales pitch, if it’s your actual brand, which we’ll get into in a minute, but it’s really pictorial izing with visuals to help comprehension. And it’s been proven statistically that when there are images on a PowerPoint. People get it.

Joshua Kornitsky: And they connect more.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes. And remember it. So I always make the analogy back to your picture books, your childhood, your favorite picture book. We all remember them well. Why? Well, they were visual. They had a message. So what that did, is it engaged us, right? And then it connected. And then we remember. And then I think either as kids or as parents, you’ve read that story a gazillion times because.

Joshua Kornitsky: That’s why I was just smiling. Yeah. My oldest daughter is named Madeline for the book Madeline, and I know the opening of the book by heart.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes. Yes, exactly. I mean, I think for me, Where the Wild Things Are.

Joshua Kornitsky: Or Sendak.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And, you know, Doctor Seuss with his crazy characters, but he knew what he was doing, right? So When I talk about visual storytelling, that’s that’s what I’m saying.

Joshua Kornitsky: And that makes much more, um, that that provides a clearer insight and an understanding for someone who’s not sure, because I do feel like it’s a term that’s used a lot but not defined a lot.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right?

Joshua Kornitsky: Right. So then again, knowing that this term is is literally 30 miles wide. Yeah. What is branding and how does it relate.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So I’m going to turn it a little bit. What is your definition of brand.

Joshua Kornitsky: Ooh. Um, broadly speaking. And I wasn’t, you know, and I wasn’t prepared for it.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: I know, but that’s why I’m asking.

Joshua Kornitsky: So broadly speaking, it’s the identity of the product or service. And identity is is loaded and vague, but just simply, uh, you know, the shape of the bottle for Coca-Cola, right? Is that branding or is that storytelling, or is that both? Because I don’t actually know the the answer to that.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well it’s both. So they developed an iconic bottle Well, if it didn’t even have Coca-Cola on it, you would immediately know what it was.

Joshua Kornitsky: Oh no question.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right. So it’s interesting that when people talk about brand, they often think, oh, it’s the logo. Well, it is, but it doesn’t stop there. So the brand is anything that you’re really going to create to tell the story. So if you do a brand style guide, which I label that as your insurance policy, because if you are a large group and maybe you employ ten graphic designers, how do you keep them on track? How do you not just have them going off whimsical and designing pieces? So the largest brand style guide I did was about 38 pages.

Joshua Kornitsky: And, and that sort of acts as the source for anyone doing anything related to the design. To go back to you to say as simple as. This color, this font, but also these images, not these.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Correct. And then it. Went deeper in this particular instance because I developed two templates that were going to be used as infographic style communication.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And so not only did I have to say here’s the layout and what the template looks like, but if you have two pictures and text, this is the layout two pictures above the text below. The next page might be okay. You’re allowed to use four images, but then here’s where you position the text. Because again, if you gave it to a graphic designer, they’re going to take artistic license upon the content that fills the template.

Joshua Kornitsky: Absolutely. Because they’re going to only look at it from what lines up for the eye.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Exactly.

Joshua Kornitsky: And that may or may not align, I guess, right, to what’s the established. Right. And on the subject of sort of that established brand guideline, that’s what you called it, a guideline.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: It’s a brand style guide.

Joshua Kornitsky: Brand style guide. Um, is so you shared your own background, right? Art and science, so to say, is that more art or science or both? When you’re creating that style guide?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well, it’s actually both because then you can pull in, um, the logic side, how does someone process information? I mean, naturally, we read from left to right, at least in our culture, we read left to right and top to bottom. So that’s going to give you what is called hierarchy. What are you going to put at the top of the page. The most important stuff because someone may not read to the bottom.

Joshua Kornitsky: Particularly these days. Just short attention span. Right?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right. And that makes sense to me. And I’d never really thought of that. But there really is both art and science to it, because you have to understand what’s going to engage fastest. And you can tell the rest of the story on the page if they come back to it. But at least you’re going to leave the impression that you want them to have.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Exactly. Exactly.

Joshua Kornitsky: Thank you for for giving me marketing 101. But I want to go back to my question of what brought you from the world of of much more strict design.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: Into now that you’ve explained it, uh, visual storytelling and branding. What was there a specific event or was it. Yes, please.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: It’s all a client’s fault. So I actually walked in to a talk through a potential product design project, and of course, I’m carrying my brochure and I hand it to the gentleman, and he literally started doing backflips right in front of me. And he said, who did this? And I said, I did. And he goes, oh, you do graphics too. And there was a pause, just like I’m doing now. And I said, yes.

Joshua Kornitsky: Yes I do.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: But as I was thinking about my answer, it was true because all those years of product work, I still had to create two dimensional layouts, whether they be presentation boards or a mix of boards and PowerPoint, or eight and a half by 11 sheets that communicate use. I was doing graphics. I had just never thought of it in that light.

Joshua Kornitsky: Because it was just part of your creative process, right?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: And so it turned out you had this hidden skill that was just already there.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes. It was just waiting to emerge. And so, um, I just discovered at that time there were a lot of entrepreneurs. I mean, there always are, but, uh, they needed logos. They needed business cards. The landscaper needed at that point, um, magnets for his truck. He needed a brochure. He needed advertisement. He needed T-shirts. Because those are walking around live billboards.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And the yards for the signs.

Joshua Kornitsky: That makes sense.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So, you know, I just started doing all the pieces that fit and work together for somebody. Marketing strategy.

Joshua Kornitsky: So is is this strategy putting it in in the biggest container. Is it how is it usually perceived. So I work with entrepreneurial businesses. Some of them most of them view a marketing strategy specifically as as an expense.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes.

Joshua Kornitsky: Um. Is that the right way? It’s just a budget line item. What’s what’s how should they be viewing it in order to really recognize what it represents to the organization?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So they need to look at the end first.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And what I mean is the output that a program, a graphic design marketing strategic program can offer them. So the old adage out of sight, out of mind.

Joshua Kornitsky: Sure.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So verbal referrals are great, but that’s only one chapter. So if you are not being strategic and creating the right graphic design tools to be in front of your target audience, then you’re not going to get a return on investment. But really, the marketing tools are magnetic. They attract.

Joshua Kornitsky: React, right?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: They engage and they connect. And lastly, they build a company’s reputation.

Joshua Kornitsky: Well, all of that makes sense. But I want to latch on to something you said. You said that that marketing is an investment rather. And I’m extrapolating from that rather than, I gather, than as an expense. And I’m just thinking about my own limited investment portfolio. Right. Is, is I don’t just buy a stock and ignore it forever. Right? Right. I have to pay attention to it. I’ve got to watch it. Hopefully it goes up and it might go down. And I got to make decisions accordingly. But when when someone views marketing as an investment rather than as an expense, does that typically do you help them see the value of looking at it as a longer term thing? Because to me, an expense is an expense. You know, we we we have to buy paper plates for the kitchen. That’s an expense. It’s just a line item. But if I treat it that way, it’s never going to change. And it seems to me that marketing can’t function as a set it and forget it function.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: No. And that’s why you often hear the word campaign, a marketing campaign. And I would recommend that someone is doing digital and print media. And back to knowing your target audience. If you understand where they’re spending time right, then you design those pieces, the marketing pieces, to be in front of them consistently or regularly. You know, think about postcards. There’s a lot of power in a postcard. So it comes to your mailbox. You don’t need it right now. So what do you do? You chuck it.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right, right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: But then it comes in next month, and you go, I’ve seen this before. And you chuck it because you don’t have the need right now. Then the third, fourth or fifth month, something happens in your lifestyle and that postcard comes in. It’s like, oh.

Joshua Kornitsky: I need a plumber.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yeah, I need that service. So whether you’re appearing on LinkedIn or other social media channels, which are some of the digital sides, right. It’s that constant repetition of being seen.

Joshua Kornitsky: So how here’s the the the multi-million dollar question. Right. And it impacts me I imagine it impacts you who can help a business find where their market is, because I believe I know where my target clients are. And belief is a wonderful thing depending on the context. Yes, but but if I believe that all my customers are at McDonald’s at 6 a.m. on a Tuesday, that’s not going to necessarily make it so. So how how do you help people discover where to find their clients? I guess is is the best way I can ask that.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So the first place I like to start is understanding what they’re doing for marketing today, because there may be some channels that they’re using that they’ve seen some success with.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Okay. So I would say that’s not broken okay. But again, uh, I guess this is a good story. Um, let’s say you’re over 65. You’re looking for Medicare, right?

Joshua Kornitsky: Would one I’m not.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: I would one be would one be on social media looking for Medicare?

Joshua Kornitsky: I would think less likely.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Correct.

Joshua Kornitsky: So maybe watching TV.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well, right. So it’s understanding where your audience, you know, are they surfers on the web and if so, where are they going on the web? Right. Are are your clients receptive to email, you know, newsletters? Now if the open rate isn’t high, it could also be a content issue. So I have to look at both habits of target audience their behavior where they are.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Along with. Again, if you’re sending a newsletter that’s 100% words or maybe one little picture up in the corner, right? Or if it’s a hard core sales pitch which no one likes, then your open rate is going to be low. So it’s understanding all those pieces and where words are making sure the verbiage content tent is going to attract.

Joshua Kornitsky: So does that makes sense to me. Is that visual storytelling? Well, is that an aspect?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: It’s an aspect. I mean, storytelling is a marriage between the right word content and the right graphics.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay. So to help me understand, is there an example or a story that you could share that maybe explains where the visual storytelling really hits home?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Um, yeah. Um, there was a construction company that I did work for, and they were, um, looking to land two of the biggest mortgage mortgage companies worldwide. They wanted to be the preferred vendor for remodeling, and they had to go through an exercise of three digital documents that were submitted, and there were certain elements that had to be in there. There were specific questions. So you’ve got words in there, right? So what I did is pictorialist where I could also structuring a layout that was welcoming and engaging for someone to actually want to read through the content. And so they made it to the third round and they attended the face to face meeting. It was at 9:00 in the morning. By the end of the meeting, they got the handshake and.

Joshua Kornitsky: Said, wow.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: We understood you. We understand all of the expertise that work for you. We understand what you deliver, how you deliver some of the tools, the the AI tools that are out there that we believe you are going to bring us success.

Joshua Kornitsky: That pretty well illustrates.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: It.

Joshua Kornitsky: Well. But but that’s the thing. Yeah. We’re talking about more esoteric concepts. And when you can make them more concrete, which is virtually making your point for you, when you can make them understandable and, and people can grasp them better. Right. Um, that makes them much more tangible. And I feel like I just answered the next question I was about to ask by, by using my own example, not because I’m brilliant, but because everything you’ve said has, has, has largely spoken to me. So let me ask then, because now I have a much better grasp on on the visual storytelling, the the brand strategy aspect. Let me ask this. What size organizations do you typically work with?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right now it’s medium size and larger companies, but I have a soft spot being an entrepreneur myself. For people who are just getting started To bring the conversation full circle, then you’ve got that expense.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Versus investment. So even at the onset, if a logo is done, business cards are done and they’re like, okay, we are maxed on our budget. Let’s still go through the exercise of understanding what would be the proper way to market yourself so we can identify the tools. I can identify the costs that the campaign would entail.

Joshua Kornitsky: Understand it on the front end.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And then they can work towards that.

Joshua Kornitsky: That that is gracious and kind, but also, uh, shows where your passion lies because it’s, it’s about, uh, helping them grow, which will ultimately help our community grow. And, and other companies will grow alongside them. Yeah. So where do you think the next step is for your organization? Where do you want to take your growth? What direction?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: So right now I am looking for partnerships. And what that means for me is working with a company, you know, long term, six months a year, or even extending it after that. And what that does is that helps us build the relationship that brings me inside long term. So I understand the brand or develop the brand for them so that we would kind of go on autopilot after a block of time when the brand is set up, because you’re not having to educate me. Every project or someone you know, if if you’re using four different designers and every time they come in, you have to bring them up to speed.

Joshua Kornitsky: Right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: You know.

Joshua Kornitsky: Well, and I think about just, you know, memorable ad campaigns going back to, to sort of the segments that you educated me on. Memorable ad campaigns don’t change very often. And that consistency requires consistency. I imagine on the data side, on the creative side, on the storytelling side, on the branding side, because if if you suddenly radically change into your point, bring somebody a new designer in who wants a different look, who, you know, we like classical design and somebody like, no, no, no, it’s all got to be modern and sleek and bear. You can run the risk, I imagine, of confusing your customer.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right, right. And then I think if a company. Because sometimes it is worth taking that pivot that we started out as a classical look. I guess you could talk about Cracker Barrel, right? Sure, sure. And for me, I really didn’t see what all the drama was about on that logo. I mean, companies have been rebranding over time and let’s face it, personally, I felt like that was an outdated logo.

Joshua Kornitsky: I have without going down this rabbit hole. I had read lots of articles prior to the rebranding that their core customers were disappearing because of age. Yeah, and and it’s sort of I joke, I have a 17 and a 22 year old daughter. Uh, I don’t understand how Flintstones vitamins are still marketed. And they are. Yeah, because my daughters have no idea who the Flintstones are. That’s right. I imagine my parents do, and I certainly do. Yes. But to my kids.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right.

Joshua Kornitsky: They’re not anywhere in their social, uh, lexicon.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yeah. So they probably did a lot of analysis. It wasn’t like they woke up one morning and said, we’re going to do a rebrand, you know.

Joshua Kornitsky: Change that.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: But I commend them for being open to realizing there’s been a pivot in their market share and that they have a choice. They can stay exactly where they are, and we know where that’s probably going to lead.

Joshua Kornitsky: Sure.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Or pivot.

Joshua Kornitsky: Well, and that leads back, I think, to kind of your your core message around the consistency, going even back to the style guide of yes, change is necessary at some point in design and look in in every aspect. But you can’t just wake up and flip the switch one morning and say, okay, tomorrow. Our colors are green and blue and they’ve been yellow and white until now, right? Keeping it simple, you have to plan for that. You have to have a strategy for that.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: And so a smart move would be and let’s go back to the logo. Perhaps they had three different logos that they had been contemplating. They could have put it out there in the world of social media, gotten feedback and gotten feedback, and maybe they did that internally. They could have done. We used to call them focus groups back in the product day.

Joshua Kornitsky: What are they called now?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: I don’t know, I call them focus groups.

Joshua Kornitsky: That’s what I thought. They were still called.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: But anyway, they may have done that. And that’s really none of our business, you know, because it’s, um. But I think it would have, uh, let us as a larger audience understand that they were getting ready to make a change.

Joshua Kornitsky: In a heads up goes a long way towards quelling panic.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Right?

Joshua Kornitsky: Right. Not that I’m not. I still don’t know why them changing their logo would impact my life. Yeah. You know, if they got rid of their biscuits, that would impact them, but not their logo, right? So. So how how can we help? And we work with similar size organizations. How can we help more For small, medium sized businesses understand marketing as an investment and brand storytelling and design as an investment rather than as just an expense, because I think giving it the the moniker of expense makes it very disposable. And as we all know from any touch in corporate life you’ve ever had. You know, we cut when it comes to times to tighten the belt. They cut what they consider disposable first. But there’s really no there is no business if marketing ceases to exist, because word of mouth will not keep you busy.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well.

Joshua Kornitsky: And forever.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yeah. And I mean, if you think about the big box stores, everybody knows who they are.

Joshua Kornitsky: Sure.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yet they still market as if they never existed. So to answer your question more specifically is let’s have the conversation. To me, the me, the conversation is the relationship. Having the conversation doesn’t cost anything. It’s let’s talk about your business. Let’s talk about where you are. Let’s talk about where you want to go. And then, of course, how marketing and design can help you get there.

Joshua Kornitsky: It sounds very much like you lead with something that’s that’s near and dear to my heart, which is simply a help first mentality. Right? And and if you’re willing to offer that to folks, I think that that would go a long way towards helping them better understand, but also build that idea of it of of brand storytelling and marketing as an investment. Right. Um, and it’s funny, I grew up in the car business, and we used to joke that 50% of our advertising worked. We just didn’t know which 50%. And and that came from the fact that we tried, uh, a shotgun approach. But the problem was at that time there was no real measurement metric. Now we have more measurements than we do. Yes, metrics.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes we do.

Joshua Kornitsky: It’s. But, you know, I imagine coming full circle around back to your own parents now, it has really become a science and an art.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Yes.

Joshua Kornitsky: Um, because we have measures, we have mechanisms by which we can gauge effectiveness. And that means that it’s a lot. It ultimately every everything that you invest in is a risk. Yep. But it can be less risky, I presume if you have real data that allows you to tell you, that tells you what’s resonating versus what isn’t right.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Exactly. And, you know, we all use the term call to action. You know, that is the age old best way to track.

Joshua Kornitsky: Sure.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Because if it’s an offer on something, Right. Or if it’s a QR code that’s leading them to fill something out. It is so easy to track what is working and what isn’t.

Joshua Kornitsky: I found this incredibly insightful. I enjoy the subject matter, but I think that your expertise on this really brings it to life and it makes it tangible. Um, and I would encourage anybody that wants to learn more. You’ve made the offer, Sarah. And so I got to put it out there. Uh, she she she’s willing to talk. I am. Uh, and I mean that in a not desperate, but wanting to help kind of way. Um, because the aspect of marketing particularly, and with a focus on medium to growing businesses, the larger you grow, the more of a necessity and the less of an option marketing becomes. Yes. And, um, my background, as I mentioned earlier, was the automotive industry. My background was also in software and software design and technology, and I bring all of that up to tell you that at a certain point, you clap out and hire a pro, and the reason you do that is you can’t do the everything aspect as an entrepreneur that you think you can and succeed, while also running your organization or organizations to grow. The value of bringing expertise is that you can then focus on your business and the things you do well. You know, it’s kind of like if you were getting audited by the IRS, would you go and become a CPA or would you hire one? Right? At a certain point, it just makes sense. And I think you bring a an amazing pedigree and a in a great outline for how best to succeed. So I can’t thank you enough. Sarah and Wild Goose, um, CEO and founder of SAW design. But let me stop because I forgot to ask, how do people get Ahold of you?

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well, I would say the best place to go is LinkedIn.

Joshua Kornitsky: Okay.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Uh, so Sarah-Anne Wildgoose on LinkedIn because all my contact information is right there. So my email, my phone number, obviously, if you Google Sarah-Anne Wildgoose, it would come up as well. Um, but that’s the best way to find me. I mean.

Joshua Kornitsky: I will also share with you that when we publish, we will have all of those links as well. Great. So that people can get that when, when they go to get the podcast download. Um, obviously it’ll be on LinkedIn. So now I’ll bring it back around and say Sarah-Anne Wildgoose, CEO and founder of SAW Design, uh, studio specializing in visual storytelling, um, in really spans design, branding and marketing. You’ve shared your journey with us just a little bit, and I appreciate that. But really, you’ve given us a great perspective on how design helps businesses stand out and connect. And for that I thank you.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: Well, and I want to say thank you so much. I have really enjoyed my time and conversation with you today.

Joshua Kornitsky: Thank you. So I just want to remind everybody that today’s episode was brought to you in part by the Community Partner Program, the Business RadioX Main Street Warriors Defending Capitalism, promoting small business, and supporting our local community. For more information, please go to Mainstreet Warriors. And a special note of thanks to our title sponsor for the Cherokee chapter of Main Street Warriors. Diesel. David. Ink. Please go check them out at diesel. David. Com. I’m your host, Joshua Kornitsky. I’m a professional implementer of the entrepreneurial operating system. It was my pleasure to have you here again today. Sarah-Anne and I look forward to our next show.

Sarah-Anne-Wildgoose: I do too.

Joshua Kornitsky: Thanks so much.

 

Tagged With: SAW Design Studio

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